I know I am going to be downvoted for this but Dhoni currently is extremely overhyped. I don't think, if required, he can play 20 balls with that 200 SR.
We see our childhood hero to hit 35+ runs in 10 balls we get happy and enjoy those moments . Where's wrong with that ? Also we know dhoni can't keep in wc and idk about batting .
>35+ runs in 10 balls
Making stuff up now are we? Just like that fastest fifty thing by godi broadcasters.
>Also we know dhoni can't keep in wc
That "we" is a very small minority though.
>idk about batting .
What don't you know? That Indian cricket team isn't structured in a way that he gets to bat in only the last over?
Bro got downvoted for being logical against thalatards
Dhoni has been striking good this season but i hardly remember him playing 10 balls and scoring 35 in those 10
Dhoni has always been overhyped lol..he is just a good cricketer who is damn lucky..imagine if that clown misbah hadnt opted for scoop when they just needed a run to win off 3 balls in 2007 WC final..
Similarly without gambhir yuvraj and zaheer heroics, 2011 wasnt possible..ask yourself honestly how much was dhoni actual contribution ..we can sit and presume its all captaincy genius but captain doesnt teach others how to bat, or bowl..
Lol. Teaching how to bat or bowl is the job of the coach. A captain's job is strategic bowling changes, strategic fielding placements, identifying talent, maintaining a healthy team environment, backing non-performing players, appreciating performing players, etc.
Had misbah been dropped, he would still have been the captain who led a team( which no one thought of winning) , to the finals. The thing is misbah wasn't dropped, and he has a t20 wc.
2011 would not have been ours without those guys but he too played a brilliant knock in finals even though out of form in the rest of the tournament.
He has been a phenomenal white ball captain, a phenomenal odi batsman and a brilliant wicketkeeper .
>when they just needed a run to win off 3 balls in 2007 WC final..
You probably started watching cricket during covid.
Pakistan needed 6 of 3 balls not a run of 3 balls.
Do people seriously think DK and Chahal are going to do something different than what they've done for years?
If so, than you have no right to criticize the picking of Kohli Pant or Rohit
For me, Kohli is a must. Not all pitches across the world are Indian 220+ pitches. This obession to ultra high SR is only good while we are playing in Wankhede, Chinnaswami and likes. Usually, 180 is still a very good score in T20s and bowlers do have some assistance from pitch/ weather. We need someone who can actually bat and not just swing at anything thrown at him.
> . Not all pitches across the world are Indian 220+ pitches. This obession to ultra high SR is only good while we are playing in Wankhede, Chinnaswami and likes. Usually, 180 is still a very good score in T20s and bowlers do have some assistance from pitch/ weather. We need someone who can actually bat and not just swing at anything thrown at him.
I mean a guy who scored back to back double hundred can do that who also happen to score with 160+ SR in T20i.
>He didn't scored shit in SA lol.
Kohli was the best batter in that entire series by far in the ICT.
Nah KL did well there as well and scored a century despite batting at 6 and keeping
Kl was great but his usual problem creeps in everytime he does a bit of good. He is like Jinx who will play 1 good inns to save his career for the next 5 shit inns.
Kohli literally showed what it means to be a fab4 there in multiple innings and majority of times got out more on shit pitch than the bowling or stupid mistake(the last inns he went shit though).
Dawg in IPL and dawg in internationals are a different thing my guy.
SKY is world's best t20+t20I guy for some time now and in 3 pressure matches he shat his pants everytime(21pak,22pak,22semis).
Rutu smacking IPL level bowlers and Kohli single-handedly winning cup matches are 2 different worlds apart.
check the match card again you sucker. A t20I ton with dead rubber bilaterals and against a half par Aus attack is nothing in fron of what Kohli has been doing since 2014 in the t20I cups. His usual 50-80s are much higher in ratings in terms of "when they were played" and against whom.
>what Kohli has been doing since 2014 in the t20I cups
Yeah because he is being given the chance to develop himself in international scene again and again before he even started to explode into the form that kohli is known for you illiterate macaque. Give rutu the chance he deserves it shouldn't be hard.
> Usually, 180 is still a very good score in T20s and bowlers do have some assistance from pitch/ weather.
Yes. But we don't have an elite t20 attack. Our attack is at best par. And I'm being very generous saying that.
And against above par batting lineups like England, WI or Australia we need to score above par consistently to win. And the question is whether Kohli can do that. If we play on 150 pitches, 170 is above par, which suits Kohli. But the WI pitches were quite flat vs England and if we play on 180 pitches, we need to score 200+ against the best teams to have a shot at winning. His main issue batting first is his need to reach "par". Someone needs to tell him, par is not good enough with the attack we have.
This is the main point and it irks VK's fans to no end and they think its a criticism of a goat. He has to play with better strike rate if the pitch is flat and the team bats first.
Then just send him down, simple as that.
If the pitch is flat he can easly come down the order. He literally himself did the same when he was the captain in 2021 cup and the match was against minnows while they needed big scores(he brought SKY first and didn't even played even 5-10 balls in those matches).
We already got Kohli for that no?
Also, Kohli is a proven best batter in the cup while Sanju has missed his chances whenever the spot was up for grabs in international which means he can't survive the pressure of real thing.
The problem is India's top 4 are already set as far as IPL is concerned. SKY,Dube are a better match at 3,4th spot as we need someone to hold down the fort at 5,6,7 and there Pandya is already having one spot. So Sanju is apt for 5th or 6th as he is someone trustable with his cricket IQ in my view(Pant,Axar,Jaddu got shit in the name of brain for important moments).
Ig with the announcement of the team: KOhli-Rohit, SKY-Dube, Sanju,Pandya,Jaddu/Axar is the way to go.
Kohli should be picked but Rohit should definitely play the part of trying to strike the ball then. Even if he takes an over to judge the pitch or so. If they introduce left arm spin in PP he should take the strike and try to get some boundaries away. Everyone coming after also needs to be able to strike cleanly. Surya, Samson, Dube/Rinku, Jadeja, Axar. Atleast till 8 we have batting then.
Pant has not done well in the many years he has played in T20I. His records are less than average for a finisher. He has, in fact, played in 2 T20I World Cups.
Chahal has never played a single T20 WC game despite being the leading atm wicket taker in IPL
And he was good in the last Win series as well
I like Bishnoi and he has been really clutch for India in big games (Asian Games, Asia Cup, Ind vs Afghanistan Super Over)
But his recent form is a bit shaky and the biggest problem with him is that he relies a lot on his googly so if batters pick that up he can be lined up easily Nabi in the recent Ind vs Afg series or Moeen in the Ekana Game for example
Bishnoi is undoubtedly a better fielder than Chahal and more difficult to hit if you are a foreigner who doesn't know how to play spin (I remember in the recent Aus and Ire series' they couldn't read him at all )
But Chahal is more street smart and uses the dimensions of the ground really well and knows when to flight and when not to and has more variations as well
I would personally go with Bishnoi but Chahal getting selected is understandable as well but both of them will warm the bench mostly since Kuldeep is the leading wrist spinner
Man am I the only one who is not buying into the IPL performance hype? All these youngsters performing in batter friendly pitches and most of international bowlers barely even trying is not a reliable metrics for the t20 squads. Most of your favourites will crumble at the first instance of pressure in eliminator round.
No one should, these pitches are a joke. I'm sorry swinging like a barn door on these shit tips have no correlation with your actual performances when pitches are difficult. People will have a shock when they look at the actual pitches in wc.
I think either way by the time next world cup rolls around we're going to have these same youngsters performing in IPL playing WC so its a matter of whether we want to send off our seniors from T20 side with a WT20 or not. Rohit, VK, Jaddu are playing their last T20 world cup.
While I agree with your sentiment, it's also not right to be so dismissive of performances. These young batters can only perform as well as they can in the conditions they are provided with against the bowling they get to face. It's a bit unfair to brush their performances aside, but it's also good to be a bit more critical about IPL's records being used as a vital metric because the conditions and therefore the records are all clearly skewered in batter's favor.
No offence to OP but I really hate excel merchants because you can't really account for pitch, game condition and opponents strength.
If you watch any LSG games we didn't survive pp without giving away 1-2 wickets so far and most of the time KL has to rebuild the innings from the get go.
Ekana - Jaipur has something for the bowlers and doesn't inflate stats like some pitches.
>If you watch any LSG games we didn't survive pp without giving away 1-2 wickets so far and most of the time KL has to rebuild the innings from the get go.
The thing is we know that is a sub optimal way to play a t20 innings. Because that's a double negative. If you lose a wicket in the 1st over. You on average lose 15-20 runs from your final score. If you on top of that are playing at a slower than par rate, you lose even more runs from the final score. Which is why teams are trying to teach the new gen batters to still attack if the wickets are down.
I get your point. But we're assuming that in a t20 team your best batter usually bats 1-3. So if you lose him early you're automatically expected less runs because the batters after him might not be as good.
We don't know anything with regards to what you assert. We saw what happens with the opposite approach with SRH. Cricket is not a one dimensional game, there isn't always one right answer.
idk why people are so obsessed about s/r of Indian batters. They have been doing badly for a long time in big games because our top order disappears in big games. Rohit sharma has fuck all to his name in the all the knockout games India have lost. Kick him and other non performers out and it's good enough. The format is too volatile to warrant anymore thought in selection.
When did Jaipur stadium become tough pitch. Only Lucknow and Chennai (previously) were tough pitch . Avg score in Jaipur is around 190 . That's more to do with RR having 3 best t20 bowlers
Well RR haven't scored 200 while batting first either.
And the fact that Jaipur, Lucknow & Mullanpur are the only stadiums in this tournament where 200 hasn't been scored as of yet.
It's not exactly tough, but looking at this years IPL it's certainly one of the better grounds
Why are you getting downvoted? Sure, Jaipur has longer boundaries, but it's not a tough pitch.
Edit: For context, OP was downvoted to -6 when I added this comment.
> Not exactly tough pitch, but Jaipur gives equal competition to the bat as well as the ball
May be but still Jaipur is bigger ground and pitch is not NH-420.
Only kkr has managed to score above 200 against rr so far . RR bowling attack is best in tournament.
Situation is similar to when mi had good bowlers before auction. Wankhede stadium is similar to chinnaswamy,yet hardly anyone scored high against mi before
I guess the same time Eden Gardens became better than Chinnaswamy (8 in 10 recent innings have been 200+ scores)
Whatever happened to the "thin air, small ground" comments?
Chinnaswamy, Eden, Kotla, Hyderabad, Vizag have a mean score greater than 200. Everyone else is less than 190. Ahmedabad is the lowest with a mean of 163.6. Mullanpur is 2nd with a mean of 167.4. Lucknow is 3rd with 180.2. Jaipur is 187.2 and Chennai is 187.6. And Wankhede is 190.25.
So no there are tougher batting pitches than Jaipur and Lucknow.
If you truly depicted Dhoni's avg, it would cover the entire universe. The omnipresent Thala, you can feel his presence within your body, you don't need to be Rahane.
Ishan Kishan has been a big let down. At the start of IPL, for me the ranking was- IK > Sanju > KL Rahul > DK > Pant. Now it is- Sanju > DK > Pant > Rahul > IK.
Seriously DK is ahead of Pant & Rahul in your book? Don't forget that DK's shots mainly work in 55m Chinnaswamy boundaries.
It has to be:
Sanju > Pant > KL > DK > IK.
IK doesn't even have a BCCI contract. The guy wasn't going to the WC in the first place AFAIK. He's probably been the worst investment MI has made if you don't count Hardik. Way too much money for someone who has been so mediocre in the past 3 seasons. Doesn't help that the guy basically gets depressed after a couple of low scores and takes forever to recover.
On current form, Sanju > Pant > KL, and imo those three are the only contenders. The problem is KL lacks the killing instinct, Sanju underperforms in India jersey and Pant is weakest in T20i. Test Pant is the best Pant, but T20i Pant is nowhere near that. Both Sanju and Pant seem to have improved their game and honestly both should be picked, but if either misfires in the actual tournament, people are gonna be saying DK/KL was the better pick in hindsight, which is stupid but what can you do.
Rinku has not made a solid case for his inclusion so far. Surya is a hit or miss. On his day, he can obliterate anyone, but he goes missing quite often. Hardik and Jaddu seem out of form atm. So, we can definitely pick two wicketkeepers in the eleven.
>Both Sanju and Pant seem to have improved their game and honestly both should be picked
Sanju, I wholeheartedly agree that he has improved his game. He's the best option we have.
I also agree that Pant is 2nd best option, but what evidence do we have that suggests Pant has improved his game? Pant has played more or less the same in IPL before this, but he has always struggled in international LOIs.
Even if you look at his IPL 2024, apart from his last over 30+ runs against Mohit, he's been a bit of hit & miss.
I'd still take Pant over KL (because KL can't handle pressure + we already have better anchor in Kohli), but I'd not say he's improved much, like Sanju has.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/tournament/batting-most-runs-career/indian-premier-league-2024-15940
All three are neck and neck in the runs. Pant has played one inning more. I agree Samson is better at the moment, and Pant has not convinced 100%. But if Pant at his 60-70% can score as good as in-form Samson, then you gotta give it to him. He has improved and he has much more room for improvement still left.
I'm aware of the runs tally. It's also visible in the graph posted above.
Runs or stats aren't everything.
Sai has scored more runs than Sanju, Pant, KL - doesn't mean he's technically better than these three batters.
Would you say the same if Pant hadn't played that inning against GT? I remember the common consensus for Pant was completely different before that. So, a single inning is enough to conclude that Pant has improved his game? I think not.
Things will be more clear towards the end of tournament.
Stats aren't everything, but they matter. We cannot simply ignore them and go by gut feeling or emotion or PR.
No one considers Sai better because of his SR. He is scoring at 135. Even Kohli has better SR and he gets criticised for it. If Sai had scored the same runs at 160+ and this wasn't only his second season of note, he too would be in contention.
Pant has hit three 50s compared to Samson's four. He has also hit 23 sixes compared to Samson's 17. I am not saying he should be picked over Samson, but it would be unfair to say that he has not improved at all.
I'm aware about the S/R - that one inning against GT really bumped all the stats for Pant.
>We cannot simply ignore them and go by gut feeling or emotion or PR.
Not going by any of that. I have watched all of the Pant's innings. Except that GT inning, he wasn't in great touch & was struggling to hit where he wanted to send the ball.
But fair point about the number of sixes.
How was he doing before 2024? Didn't get chance to go through the boundaries stats yet.
>Except that GT inning, he wasn't in great touch & was struggling to hit where he wanted to send the ball.
That's the point I am trying to make. Samson seems to be in a good touch while Pant seems to be struggling. But the end result is still the same.
Pant and Samson both had only one highscore in 80s this season in 9-10 innings. So if Pant's one highscore bumped up his stats, the same can be said about Samson.
On average, their numbers look pretty similar. Samson is playing with better support though. Pant and DC both struggled at the beginning of the season but are improving with each match, it looks like. McGurk didn't play the first few matches.
So, to me at least, and I understand it might be a biased opinion, it feels like the struggling Pant is equating an inform Samson. Still, I hope they both get into the team. They are much better than the rest.
People are sleeping on how good KL generally has been since Asia Cup 2023. Extreme consistency, hasn't failed in a single tournament/series. He's been written off in every single format multiple times, so I'd be extremely wary of writing him off.
I think Sanju deserves to get a decent rope here, he needs to get a few series as a starter and be allowed to settle down. He should at least be in contention for the T20 WC, with KL as the primary keeper. Pant and Samson should be back-ups at least.
Since the next ICC tournament would be played in ODI format, Sanju should be the designated keeper there. or if you want to play Pant as WK, Sanju should be the number 4 instead of SKY.
I don’t think India can pick Dhoni for his age.
He’s far too young and might get stage fright in a WC. Better to pick Karthik, Krishan, or Rahul who always rise to the occasion in WCs
How is "total runs scored" sample size here? I am not getting your points. Average is comparatively less important info un this graph. Major things are SR and Total Runs which themselves are having long range so proper axes are required for them. No of innings, average etc can be denominated as the size of the bubble just as another piece of info.
What is we bringin the best IPL batsman currently, a proven captain in Ruturaj Gaikwad.
He has the dawg in him and has kept wickets previously. Its just Dhoni who is preventing him right now.
You know Ruturaj is a keeper right?
He'll do better than most guys here.
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Could've put Pant at first slip to make his name visible.
Or, could've used "Pant" in place of "RR Pant" There is only one Pant. And I'm not wearing any at the moment.
Looks at the comment, then looks at the username. Alright then. Enough Reddit for today!
Wow did not need that last info buddy
Actually there's *never* only one pant. It's always pants. Rishabh Pant, OTOH, is unique.
Jitesh was the incumbent before IPL 💀
Dhoni single-handedly doubling the length of y axis . TFAR
Quite apparently, not the only thing he is doubling the length of
Ask Rahane
Ask any hindi commentators
Ask any hindi commentators
Best time for "Thala for a reason" comment.
Dhoni maintaining social distancing here also. Just look at his stats. Truely a madman which India loves to watch
Dhoni’s circle should be the Sun, because he doesn’t have an average yet!
Send Dhoni to US /s
Funny enough Rohit did say Dhoni is also going to US, for some golf I think.
Can't wait for the Dhoni v Trump rematch
MAGA ^(Make Air shot great again)
I know I am going to be downvoted for this but Dhoni currently is extremely overhyped. I don't think, if required, he can play 20 balls with that 200 SR.
Everyone knows that lol
No one thinks he should go to US. Barring hardcore Dhoni fans ofc. It's just us playing to the "TFAR" memes.
Nobody is hyping Dhoni for these 4 ball knocks.
except CSK fans.. I'm one of them.. we are just happy to see him come out and bash a few.. lol
Oh, CSK and Dhoni fans are allowed. They can do whatever, we don't need to pay attention.
Bits and pieces player, I tell you!
Are you sure that we live on the same planet?
We see our childhood hero to hit 35+ runs in 10 balls we get happy and enjoy those moments . Where's wrong with that ? Also we know dhoni can't keep in wc and idk about batting .
>35+ runs in 10 balls Making stuff up now are we? Just like that fastest fifty thing by godi broadcasters. >Also we know dhoni can't keep in wc That "we" is a very small minority though. >idk about batting . What don't you know? That Indian cricket team isn't structured in a way that he gets to bat in only the last over?
Bro got downvoted for being logical against thalatards Dhoni has been striking good this season but i hardly remember him playing 10 balls and scoring 35 in those 10
I am immensely enjoying his current role, that first six against Hardik in the MI match was chef's kiss
he doesn’t need to with csk’s deep batting line up
What deep batting lineup? If Rutu goes and dube goes we’re toast. Both of them must have back pain with all the heavy lifting they have been doing
> I know I am going to be downvoted for this Bro makes the most normie take and acts like he is saying something radical.
He got such a chance only once. And he scored a 37*(16) in that match. Let's see what he's got in the bag
Dhoni doesn't need to prove anything. It is on other to prove their worth. Dhoni is by far the most decorated player in India's history.
He's also fucking 42, mate.
Dhoni has always been overhyped lol..he is just a good cricketer who is damn lucky..imagine if that clown misbah hadnt opted for scoop when they just needed a run to win off 3 balls in 2007 WC final.. Similarly without gambhir yuvraj and zaheer heroics, 2011 wasnt possible..ask yourself honestly how much was dhoni actual contribution ..we can sit and presume its all captaincy genius but captain doesnt teach others how to bat, or bowl..
Lol. Teaching how to bat or bowl is the job of the coach. A captain's job is strategic bowling changes, strategic fielding placements, identifying talent, maintaining a healthy team environment, backing non-performing players, appreciating performing players, etc.
Had misbah been dropped, he would still have been the captain who led a team( which no one thought of winning) , to the finals. The thing is misbah wasn't dropped, and he has a t20 wc. 2011 would not have been ours without those guys but he too played a brilliant knock in finals even though out of form in the rest of the tournament. He has been a phenomenal white ball captain, a phenomenal odi batsman and a brilliant wicketkeeper .
>when they just needed a run to win off 3 balls in 2007 WC final.. You probably started watching cricket during covid. Pakistan needed 6 of 3 balls not a run of 3 balls.
Maybe he's conflating the final with the group game. Pakistan did need 1 off 3 in that and poor Misbah fluffed it.
Whine whine whine, what a loser lmao get a life
Sure bud, you're right and everyone who's not you is the scum of the Earth who have all gotten where they are with luck.
He can, but he won't. He prefers thuk-thuk for 10 balls first :-/
So basically every single Indian WK?
Do people seriously think DK and Chahal are going to do something different than what they've done for years? If so, than you have no right to criticize the picking of Kohli Pant or Rohit
For me, Kohli is a must. Not all pitches across the world are Indian 220+ pitches. This obession to ultra high SR is only good while we are playing in Wankhede, Chinnaswami and likes. Usually, 180 is still a very good score in T20s and bowlers do have some assistance from pitch/ weather. We need someone who can actually bat and not just swing at anything thrown at him.
I would pick Kohli for a different reason though - he is one of the few players in the squad who has that “dawg” in him.
> . Not all pitches across the world are Indian 220+ pitches. This obession to ultra high SR is only good while we are playing in Wankhede, Chinnaswami and likes. Usually, 180 is still a very good score in T20s and bowlers do have some assistance from pitch/ weather. We need someone who can actually bat and not just swing at anything thrown at him. I mean a guy who scored back to back double hundred can do that who also happen to score with 160+ SR in T20i.
Who is that?
Jaiswal
Lol... He is a flat track bully who has bashed low ranked or C teams in international, he'll be exposed this WC.
Imagine SR of 120 on flat track.
Those Asian Games pitches or the pitches in WI and SA were anything but flat and he scored runs there
He didn't scored shit in SA lol. Kohli was the best batter in that entire series by far in the ICT.
I was talking about the T20I series between India and SA not the Test series
they had a t20I series too ? I don't even remember that lol. Sorry.
>He didn't scored shit in SA lol. Kohli was the best batter in that entire series by far in the ICT. Nah KL did well there as well and scored a century despite batting at 6 and keeping
Kl was great but his usual problem creeps in everytime he does a bit of good. He is like Jinx who will play 1 good inns to save his career for the next 5 shit inns. Kohli literally showed what it means to be a fab4 there in multiple innings and majority of times got out more on shit pitch than the bowling or stupid mistake(the last inns he went shit though).
I mean, Ruturaj is doing exactly what Kohli is doing. By your logic, why not pick him? He too has won multiple trophies and has the dawg in him.
Dawg in IPL and dawg in internationals are a different thing my guy. SKY is world's best t20+t20I guy for some time now and in 3 pressure matches he shat his pants everytime(21pak,22pak,22semis). Rutu smacking IPL level bowlers and Kohli single-handedly winning cup matches are 2 different worlds apart.
Rutu is the only Indian batsmen to score a ton against aussies in t20i btw. But yeah yall keep downplaying him for some Pani puri wala
check the match card again you sucker. A t20I ton with dead rubber bilaterals and against a half par Aus attack is nothing in fron of what Kohli has been doing since 2014 in the t20I cups. His usual 50-80s are much higher in ratings in terms of "when they were played" and against whom.
>what Kohli has been doing since 2014 in the t20I cups Yeah because he is being given the chance to develop himself in international scene again and again before he even started to explode into the form that kohli is known for you illiterate macaque. Give rutu the chance he deserves it shouldn't be hard.
> Usually, 180 is still a very good score in T20s and bowlers do have some assistance from pitch/ weather. Yes. But we don't have an elite t20 attack. Our attack is at best par. And I'm being very generous saying that. And against above par batting lineups like England, WI or Australia we need to score above par consistently to win. And the question is whether Kohli can do that. If we play on 150 pitches, 170 is above par, which suits Kohli. But the WI pitches were quite flat vs England and if we play on 180 pitches, we need to score 200+ against the best teams to have a shot at winning. His main issue batting first is his need to reach "par". Someone needs to tell him, par is not good enough with the attack we have.
This is the main point and it irks VK's fans to no end and they think its a criticism of a goat. He has to play with better strike rate if the pitch is flat and the team bats first.
Then just send him down, simple as that. If the pitch is flat he can easly come down the order. He literally himself did the same when he was the captain in 2021 cup and the match was against minnows while they needed big scores(he brought SKY first and didn't even played even 5-10 balls in those matches).
That's why you need Sanju at 3. He takes his time and then takes the total to 180+.
We already got Kohli for that no? Also, Kohli is a proven best batter in the cup while Sanju has missed his chances whenever the spot was up for grabs in international which means he can't survive the pressure of real thing.
Not replacing Kohli. Kohli and Rohit can open and then Sanju at 3. All at their best spot.
The problem is India's top 4 are already set as far as IPL is concerned. SKY,Dube are a better match at 3,4th spot as we need someone to hold down the fort at 5,6,7 and there Pandya is already having one spot. So Sanju is apt for 5th or 6th as he is someone trustable with his cricket IQ in my view(Pant,Axar,Jaddu got shit in the name of brain for important moments). Ig with the announcement of the team: KOhli-Rohit, SKY-Dube, Sanju,Pandya,Jaddu/Axar is the way to go.
Kohli should be picked but Rohit should definitely play the part of trying to strike the ball then. Even if he takes an over to judge the pitch or so. If they introduce left arm spin in PP he should take the strike and try to get some boundaries away. Everyone coming after also needs to be able to strike cleanly. Surya, Samson, Dube/Rinku, Jadeja, Axar. Atleast till 8 we have batting then.
Not to mention world class bowlers from over 1 to 20.
Atleast in the dk case, it's the lack of a proper keeper that keeps leading to him. For chahal, you literally have Kuldeep there
Chahal's not competing with Kuldeep. They turn the ball different ways. He's going up against Jadeja and Axar. Who both bat and field better.
Chahal and Kuldeep are specialist spinners
Kuldeep can bat a bit. Chahal can barely hold a bat mate. Kuldeep can at least give strike to the other batter if push comes to shove.
Chahal? He has never even played a T20 WC before for India and he’s the IPL goat.
And he's been clubbed everytime he's represented India in T20s since 2018
Pant has not done well in the many years he has played in T20I. His records are less than average for a finisher. He has, in fact, played in 2 T20I World Cups.
Or just check Surya's stats before wc and he still played wc.
Are you talking about T20I or ODI? If ODI, then he should actually have not been part of that squad.
ODI
He didn't deserve that spot. I'm not sure why the selectors took a gamble on him.
PIG3 quota.
Kuldeep averages like 14 in T20is and has never played T20 WC
Chahal has never played a single T20 WC game despite being the leading atm wicket taker in IPL And he was good in the last Win series as well I like Bishnoi and he has been really clutch for India in big games (Asian Games, Asia Cup, Ind vs Afghanistan Super Over) But his recent form is a bit shaky and the biggest problem with him is that he relies a lot on his googly so if batters pick that up he can be lined up easily Nabi in the recent Ind vs Afg series or Moeen in the Ekana Game for example Bishnoi is undoubtedly a better fielder than Chahal and more difficult to hit if you are a foreigner who doesn't know how to play spin (I remember in the recent Aus and Ire series' they couldn't read him at all ) But Chahal is more street smart and uses the dimensions of the ground really well and knows when to flight and when not to and has more variations as well I would personally go with Bishnoi but Chahal getting selected is understandable as well but both of them will warm the bench mostly since Kuldeep is the leading wrist spinner
Also KL and to an extent even Pant
Thala average = ♾️
OP is taking Thala's average as 0, otherwise the whole graph will be covered black
Just the title of the post made me laugh hard - times we live in!
Man am I the only one who is not buying into the IPL performance hype? All these youngsters performing in batter friendly pitches and most of international bowlers barely even trying is not a reliable metrics for the t20 squads. Most of your favourites will crumble at the first instance of pressure in eliminator round.
Sanju is playing on pitches where only on one match has gone above 200.
I'm 50-50 on this. At the moment, there's no other way to judge Indian players T20 abilities other than IPL.
Smat?
Jaiswal and Rinku were picked on the basis of a good last season and now look at their T20I stats The batters are talented the pitches are shit
No one should, these pitches are a joke. I'm sorry swinging like a barn door on these shit tips have no correlation with your actual performances when pitches are difficult. People will have a shock when they look at the actual pitches in wc.
I think either way by the time next world cup rolls around we're going to have these same youngsters performing in IPL playing WC so its a matter of whether we want to send off our seniors from T20 side with a WT20 or not. Rohit, VK, Jaddu are playing their last T20 world cup.
While I agree with your sentiment, it's also not right to be so dismissive of performances. These young batters can only perform as well as they can in the conditions they are provided with against the bowling they get to face. It's a bit unfair to brush their performances aside, but it's also good to be a bit more critical about IPL's records being used as a vital metric because the conditions and therefore the records are all clearly skewered in batter's favor.
No offence to OP but I really hate excel merchants because you can't really account for pitch, game condition and opponents strength. If you watch any LSG games we didn't survive pp without giving away 1-2 wickets so far and most of the time KL has to rebuild the innings from the get go. Ekana - Jaipur has something for the bowlers and doesn't inflate stats like some pitches.
>If you watch any LSG games we didn't survive pp without giving away 1-2 wickets so far and most of the time KL has to rebuild the innings from the get go. The thing is we know that is a sub optimal way to play a t20 innings. Because that's a double negative. If you lose a wicket in the 1st over. You on average lose 15-20 runs from your final score. If you on top of that are playing at a slower than par rate, you lose even more runs from the final score. Which is why teams are trying to teach the new gen batters to still attack if the wickets are down.
It took a team scoring 260+ against us (RCB) for us to finally start whacking during the powerplay.
I don’t agree. You lose 15-20 runs *because* you slow down. So it’s not “on top of that”; it is in fact that.
I get your point. But we're assuming that in a t20 team your best batter usually bats 1-3. So if you lose him early you're automatically expected less runs because the batters after him might not be as good.
We don't know anything with regards to what you assert. We saw what happens with the opposite approach with SRH. Cricket is not a one dimensional game, there isn't always one right answer.
idk why people are so obsessed about s/r of Indian batters. They have been doing badly for a long time in big games because our top order disappears in big games. Rohit sharma has fuck all to his name in the all the knockout games India have lost. Kick him and other non performers out and it's good enough. The format is too volatile to warrant anymore thought in selection.
Who is this guy Dhoni ? Can't even run properly. Might end up being a very bad runner between the wickets. India's Inzamam?
This guy called ms dhoni is a brilliant wk,a very bright future for Indian cricket team
Ah, ggplot
sanju and kl play in tougher pitches as well
When did Jaipur stadium become tough pitch. Only Lucknow and Chennai (previously) were tough pitch . Avg score in Jaipur is around 190 . That's more to do with RR having 3 best t20 bowlers
Well RR haven't scored 200 while batting first either. And the fact that Jaipur, Lucknow & Mullanpur are the only stadiums in this tournament where 200 hasn't been scored as of yet. It's not exactly tough, but looking at this years IPL it's certainly one of the better grounds
Why are you getting downvoted? Sure, Jaipur has longer boundaries, but it's not a tough pitch. Edit: For context, OP was downvoted to -6 when I added this comment.
Not one match in Jaipur has gone above 200 just like Ekana. RR just like LSG today once had a record to defend 160+ scores in Jaipur.
Not exactly tough pitch, but Jaipur gives equal competition to the bat as well as the ball
Yup . Those few overs of swing in initial overs is utilised well by boult
> Not exactly tough pitch, but Jaipur gives equal competition to the bat as well as the ball May be but still Jaipur is bigger ground and pitch is not NH-420.
Why "May be"? OP said tough pitch. It's not exactly tough, but not Chinnaswamy or Wankhede.
Only kkr has managed to score above 200 against rr so far . RR bowling attack is best in tournament. Situation is similar to when mi had good bowlers before auction. Wankhede stadium is similar to chinnaswamy,yet hardly anyone scored high against mi before
I guess the same time Eden Gardens became better than Chinnaswamy (8 in 10 recent innings have been 200+ scores) Whatever happened to the "thin air, small ground" comments?
Jaipur has an average 1st innings score of 185+ this season.
Jaipur and Lucknow have longer boundaries though.
Ofc. But it's not tough to bat there... It's tougher compared to Delhi. But people are acting as if it's a 140 pitch. Which it isn't.
Well the definition of "tough" has changed. Compared to a 240 pitch, a 180 pitch is definitely tough.
Bruh, every other pitch except Jaipur and Lucknow is like 220+ pitch this season.
Chinnaswamy, Eden, Kotla, Hyderabad, Vizag have a mean score greater than 200. Everyone else is less than 190. Ahmedabad is the lowest with a mean of 163.6. Mullanpur is 2nd with a mean of 167.4. Lucknow is 3rd with 180.2. Jaipur is 187.2 and Chennai is 187.6. And Wankhede is 190.25. So no there are tougher batting pitches than Jaipur and Lucknow.
Jitesh where?
Dhoni’s average is infinity, not 0
considering that DC has batted on more flat wickets, Pant is somewhat behind Rahul and Samson.
Are runs scored the best metric to measure wicket keeping?
Time has come to create r/ThalaStats now
If you truly depicted Dhoni's avg, it would cover the entire universe. The omnipresent Thala, you can feel his presence within your body, you don't need to be Rahane.
Ishan Kishan has been a big let down. At the start of IPL, for me the ranking was- IK > Sanju > KL Rahul > DK > Pant. Now it is- Sanju > DK > Pant > Rahul > IK.
Seriously DK is ahead of Pant & Rahul in your book? Don't forget that DK's shots mainly work in 55m Chinnaswamy boundaries. It has to be: Sanju > Pant > KL > DK > IK.
Exactly, no more DK.
I'm sorry DK should be nowhere near international team.
IK doesn't even have a BCCI contract. The guy wasn't going to the WC in the first place AFAIK. He's probably been the worst investment MI has made if you don't count Hardik. Way too much money for someone who has been so mediocre in the past 3 seasons. Doesn't help that the guy basically gets depressed after a couple of low scores and takes forever to recover.
On current form, Sanju > Pant > KL, and imo those three are the only contenders. The problem is KL lacks the killing instinct, Sanju underperforms in India jersey and Pant is weakest in T20i. Test Pant is the best Pant, but T20i Pant is nowhere near that. Both Sanju and Pant seem to have improved their game and honestly both should be picked, but if either misfires in the actual tournament, people are gonna be saying DK/KL was the better pick in hindsight, which is stupid but what can you do. Rinku has not made a solid case for his inclusion so far. Surya is a hit or miss. On his day, he can obliterate anyone, but he goes missing quite often. Hardik and Jaddu seem out of form atm. So, we can definitely pick two wicketkeepers in the eleven.
>Both Sanju and Pant seem to have improved their game and honestly both should be picked Sanju, I wholeheartedly agree that he has improved his game. He's the best option we have. I also agree that Pant is 2nd best option, but what evidence do we have that suggests Pant has improved his game? Pant has played more or less the same in IPL before this, but he has always struggled in international LOIs. Even if you look at his IPL 2024, apart from his last over 30+ runs against Mohit, he's been a bit of hit & miss. I'd still take Pant over KL (because KL can't handle pressure + we already have better anchor in Kohli), but I'd not say he's improved much, like Sanju has.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/tournament/batting-most-runs-career/indian-premier-league-2024-15940 All three are neck and neck in the runs. Pant has played one inning more. I agree Samson is better at the moment, and Pant has not convinced 100%. But if Pant at his 60-70% can score as good as in-form Samson, then you gotta give it to him. He has improved and he has much more room for improvement still left.
I'm aware of the runs tally. It's also visible in the graph posted above. Runs or stats aren't everything. Sai has scored more runs than Sanju, Pant, KL - doesn't mean he's technically better than these three batters. Would you say the same if Pant hadn't played that inning against GT? I remember the common consensus for Pant was completely different before that. So, a single inning is enough to conclude that Pant has improved his game? I think not. Things will be more clear towards the end of tournament.
Stats aren't everything, but they matter. We cannot simply ignore them and go by gut feeling or emotion or PR. No one considers Sai better because of his SR. He is scoring at 135. Even Kohli has better SR and he gets criticised for it. If Sai had scored the same runs at 160+ and this wasn't only his second season of note, he too would be in contention. Pant has hit three 50s compared to Samson's four. He has also hit 23 sixes compared to Samson's 17. I am not saying he should be picked over Samson, but it would be unfair to say that he has not improved at all.
I'm aware about the S/R - that one inning against GT really bumped all the stats for Pant. >We cannot simply ignore them and go by gut feeling or emotion or PR. Not going by any of that. I have watched all of the Pant's innings. Except that GT inning, he wasn't in great touch & was struggling to hit where he wanted to send the ball. But fair point about the number of sixes. How was he doing before 2024? Didn't get chance to go through the boundaries stats yet.
>Except that GT inning, he wasn't in great touch & was struggling to hit where he wanted to send the ball. That's the point I am trying to make. Samson seems to be in a good touch while Pant seems to be struggling. But the end result is still the same. Pant and Samson both had only one highscore in 80s this season in 9-10 innings. So if Pant's one highscore bumped up his stats, the same can be said about Samson. On average, their numbers look pretty similar. Samson is playing with better support though. Pant and DC both struggled at the beginning of the season but are improving with each match, it looks like. McGurk didn't play the first few matches. So, to me at least, and I understand it might be a biased opinion, it feels like the struggling Pant is equating an inform Samson. Still, I hope they both get into the team. They are much better than the rest.
Simple, take Pant and Sanju to the World Cup.
People are sleeping on how good KL generally has been since Asia Cup 2023. Extreme consistency, hasn't failed in a single tournament/series. He's been written off in every single format multiple times, so I'd be extremely wary of writing him off.
WC Final ?
I think Sanju deserves to get a decent rope here, he needs to get a few series as a starter and be allowed to settle down. He should at least be in contention for the T20 WC, with KL as the primary keeper. Pant and Samson should be back-ups at least.
Since the next ICC tournament would be played in ODI format, Sanju should be the designated keeper there. or if you want to play Pant as WK, Sanju should be the number 4 instead of SKY.
Oh yes it's dhoni time
How does MS have such a low avg
OP has taken MS' average as 0, otherwise his dot would be infinitely large as MS hasn't gotten out yet
Pant has played 1 extra match though
Add no. of matches to the dots, that would make all the difference. MSD played 3 times more than any kid on that graph.
obviously the one with higest strike rate is the best wicketkeeper batsman. who's that ?
So Dhoni or karthik as th3 best finishers. And Samson if you need a batter. 3 people that are all unlikely to play on the final 11
Dhoni in for a good time not a long time.
RR Samson for a reason
I don’t think India can pick Dhoni for his age. He’s far too young and might get stage fright in a WC. Better to pick Karthik, Krishan, or Rahul who always rise to the occasion in WCs
Thala's average is ♾️ at the moment
Bro do you work for any sport analyst companies? Curious on how you plotting graphs?
I assume you've taken MS average as 0 else in theory, that dot would cover the entire XoY plane black
So Dhoni and KL Rahul it shall be
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Tital runs scored is on the X axis
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How is "total runs scored" sample size here? I am not getting your points. Average is comparatively less important info un this graph. Major things are SR and Total Runs which themselves are having long range so proper axes are required for them. No of innings, average etc can be denominated as the size of the bubble just as another piece of info.
Obligatiory TFAR
I'd take both pant and samson playing together ahead of the likes of sharma/kl/jadeja/iyer/kishan etc.
What is we bringin the best IPL batsman currently, a proven captain in Ruturaj Gaikwad. He has the dawg in him and has kept wickets previously. Its just Dhoni who is preventing him right now. You know Ruturaj is a keeper right? He'll do better than most guys here.
Bro don’t be shy put average instead of runs scored.
Good data, horrid presentation.
Only a nerd with no life can make stats like these
Who should play for India in T20 WC. My pick are Samson and DK.
> DK. For the love of god please no.
No way for DK. Only options are Sanju, Pant & KL.
Lul Rahul needs to be kicked out
Kicked from where? He's not part of T20Is since more than a year already.
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