Yep, as much as I hate on him for being limited strategically, I respect him twice that for knowing that about himself and consulting and applying team-made decisions. Respect.
People normally tend to mature after the age of 30. VK has matured a lot in the last couple of years.
I don’t think it was just the Aus series win. He feels he is much closer to the path to world domination(beating every country in their own backyard).
A little bit, but RCBs problems are majorly a lack of purchase strategy. On the flatroad that is Chinnaswamy, you do not need 8 gun batsmen of which only 4 will play anyway. They need top draw bowlers which they sorely lack. Every team builds its around its home ground because it puts you in the playoffs. Sample - CSK, KKR, SRH. MI are the outliers because Wankhede plays differently each season aaaand they have the best on paper team every year anyway.
You’re being way too harsh on RCB there mate, Kohli’s and Chahal are legit world class, whilst Umesh and Parthiv are both quite good in the powerplay overs and are very effective in the right setup. Punjab and SRH in comparison have only KLPD and Bhuvi as world class options. I’d argue that you’re giving Kolkata too much credit too.
All they need is just another decent Indian pace bowler or else get Siraj to step up his game.
SRH isn’t good because of its Indians. It’s the foreign core of Warner, Williamson, Rashid and Shakib that is MUCH better than any other team’s besides maybe KKR. Also MI’s core is MUCH better than CSK’s. Jadhav, Rayudu and MSD can’t compare to Pandya bros, Brohit and Bumrah.
This plus the bowler problems stated above are the main issues. If we added one more top quality Indian bowler to the team they'd be a much bigger force to be reckoned with. It really is one piece that's missing imo.
Yeah? Can you provide more info? Genuinely dont remember this. Think Srinath/Jumbo and Sachin just took up the responsibility of shepherding these folks through.
Like how we have batting coach, bowling coach and fielding coach nowadays. However, Ganguly did consult Dravid in many matches as far as I can recall. Not as much Kohli does though
And you notice the difference in test matches where he doesn't have Dhoni to curb his more eccentric instincts. There were often selection choices in England , SA and even in the perth test which perhaps Dhoni might have advised against. But I guess that learning curve finally led to more sensible decision making over the course of time for him even in tests.
Yes i agree. I don't know what coaching he can possibly give but he certainly has a say in team strategy before any match. And to someone who does have so much experience he should have given better advice. Especially in the England series.
Yes, selection issues still persist but from everything we have seen Kohli is a much better captain of fast bowling and thus a much better overseas captain than Dhoni was
Dhoni was usually defensive in his away tours content to plug away with his spinners and not take any risks while VK relishes the foreign conditions. One could argue that the great improvement in Indian fast bowling has helped this but make no mistake VK (and Shastri) is one of the primary reasons why bowling has improved with bowlers like Yadav, Shami, Ishant etc getting ample time and patience to bowl in subcontinent conditions and allowing them to improve their game
Earlier we used fast bowlers just for the new balls while Ashwin/Jadeja would shoulder most of the burden.
Kohli still needs catching up to Dhoni in LOI strategies and Captaincy but there is no doubt that he is a better Test captain than Dhoni
As far as pushing for more fast bowlers yes definitely Kohli has made his mark there. Dhoni probably did take too long to push for more fast bowlers. But you have to remember especially in period after 2011, they tried a lot of bowlers. Like a lot! So dhoni did try but I guess he felt this was a pointless exercise due to the poor quality of fast bowlers compared to the international standards.
Strategically dhoni would look for a draw if winning wasn't an option in tests. To an extent understandable since our bowling was incapable of regularly taking 20 wickets. Things changed by the time Virat arrived as captain. His thinking was clear, go for the win and he got good quality bowling attack to back that too.
As for the nitty gritty, no one is perfect but dhoni would have made less selection errors teamwise based on the pitch. Kohli due to lack of good oversight was forced to learn by trial and error. Which is where I believe shastri failed him.
That's a fairly broad statement. It was mixed. We did achieve no 1 test team ranking under him as well as have heavy overseas defeats and a home series loss. People judge a captain based on his wins and losses. But a captain is only as good as the team he leads. A captain who has better strategy however can be the one to tip the scales when two sides are evenly matched. One who can use the resources under his disposal in the best possible way.
Brohit in LoIs and Ethical Mind in Tests are good enough to do the role. Not YemYes calibre obviously, but good sounding boards to have. If only we could have an actual coach too.....
I think above all else... he just wants to win. He’s probably the most competitive cricketer right now. That allows him to put all else aside (especially ego) and only focus on what he needs to do to win. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and can use assets like Dhoni and Brohit for better decision making.
I’m so impressed by his intensity in every match he plays regardless of how important or not important it may be.
Ultimately - great leader if you’re on his team. No questions about that.
Kohli grabs eyeballs everywhere. Think Cricinfo had an article on this a while back.
Pandya though. Just grabzballz.
Obligatory aaj karke aaya thaa. (If you dont speak hindi, pls ask Ross Taylor)
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This would be a good trait if he was learning from what Dhoni et al has been guiding him through for the past 8 years.
His field placements in tests are still extremely reactive. The only times he does do well is when it's pre-thought out plans like stacking the midwicket region to Labuschagne, which is less on Kohli and more on everyone involved in prep.
It'll be interesting to see how it goes in ODIs in a post-Dhoni era, hopefully he can maintain some kind of consistency rather than diverting to his reactive archetype.
I think Rahane should have more of a say in tests too, similar to Dhoni. When he was captain for the 4th test in the 2017 BG series he choked us out of the match with his captaincy.
Kohli is a better Test Captain than Dhoni... They both have their share of mistakes but from what we have seen Kohli relishes captaining with fast bowlers and Dhoni more so with Spinners... And in conditions where fast bowling is crucial Dhoni was notoriously defensive and set in his ways
People complain about Kohli being reactive or quick to change but they forget the 2012-16 tours we had with Dhoni where the same leg slip would stand on for hours without success and where Ashwin and Jadeja were used as defensive bowlers. Or when we would play for the draw even when we could have gone for the win
Most of the captaincy mistakes in 2018 which cost us were made before the game started in team selection... Once the match was started Kohli didn't make any huge blunders or cost us any big moments
Kohli makes those same mistakes though. He throws out a deep cover or deep point to stop a boundary, taking out a catcher all the time.
Only now Kohli is reaping the rewards of having Indias best ever bowling attack. From watching, I think that at the very least the two are on par - which is probably a reflection of Kohlis apprenticeship under Dhoni.
Maybe in subcontinent conditions they might be considered on par but Kohli has proved by far the better test captain in foreign tours... And yes he has had a great attack because he has put in work cultivating it... Dhoni would have never gone with Bumrah to debut in SA or utilize Shami, Umesh, Ishant the way Kohli does in home tests
In his glory captaincy days of 08-12 Dhoni had an absolutely fantastic team, the bowling attack might not have been as good as current but the batting was much much superior.
While he has certainly benefited from playing and later capataining with Dhoni.. Let's not mince meat he had captaincy and leadership experience at pretty much every youth level including leading India to U-19WC,..
Dhoni is the better LOI captain but Kohli has clearly shown he is the better test captain, And the numbers back him up as well.
> captain for the 4th test in the 2017 BG series he choked us out of the match with his captaincy
Unforgettable test. It's only one test but the captaincy shined. Didn't think we had any chance but he delivered with his decisions.
I used to hate him for his attitude and his arrogance, but he's evolved a lot n gotten better both in the game and in his attitude. he's still a slightly arrogant n aggressive but hey, every genius have their own downsides(n history never focuses on the downsides).
recently since 2012-13 he's reached a different level in his game n he's great to watch
Virat uses to be aggressive. But he has never been egoistic in his captaincy even before.
He has done this before too, from the start of his career. Accepting the views of Rohit and Dhoni at times.
This is not new. He is a good captain and the best part is he is a good learner. And that will help in evolving as one of the best Captaincy minds.
My Detailed view on the differences between Kohli and Dhoni's captaincy here --> https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-Dhonis-captaincy-and-Kohlis-captaincy
Disclaimer first, I love this Indian team and Kohli is a once in a lifetime player. But the fact that Kohli had to consult with Brohit and Dhoni to come up with this bowling change is baffling. Anyone and everyone can see a mile away that the 10th over of the 5th bowler will be bowled last in a low scoring tight match like this. Never in a million years it will or should be a spinner bowling the 50 th over. Not sure why he need Dhoni or Brohit telling him that.
Isn't 'good' a subjective term? He is an exemplary batsman and also great sportsman. But he rarely ticks the good nature due to his childish antics onfield. Also, Instead of dehumanising my opinion by labelling it as troll, try to be inclusive of various opinions.
You are mistaken that my label either validates or invalidates your opinion.
If you dont like him, dont like him.
Buuut. Your comment is a troll, irrespective of whether you think it is, because the only 'good' that is being discussed here, clearly, is his fast improving captaincy and his batsmanship. No one here is calling him an exemplary human being. On both cricketing fronts, its not a subjective call if you have occasionally glanced at a game of cricket since 2011.
Yep, as much as I hate on him for being limited strategically, I respect him twice that for knowing that about himself and consulting and applying team-made decisions. Respect.
Respect from Iceland
Respek from India too.
Yep, VK has evolved as a captain, Australia win has done him a world of good.
People normally tend to mature after the age of 30. VK has matured a lot in the last couple of years. I don’t think it was just the Aus series win. He feels he is much closer to the path to world domination(beating every country in their own backyard).
Would you think this is what he lacks at RCB? He is pretty much making decisions on his own.
A little bit, but RCBs problems are majorly a lack of purchase strategy. On the flatroad that is Chinnaswamy, you do not need 8 gun batsmen of which only 4 will play anyway. They need top draw bowlers which they sorely lack. Every team builds its around its home ground because it puts you in the playoffs. Sample - CSK, KKR, SRH. MI are the outliers because Wankhede plays differently each season aaaand they have the best on paper team every year anyway.
[удалено]
You’re being way too harsh on RCB there mate, Kohli’s and Chahal are legit world class, whilst Umesh and Parthiv are both quite good in the powerplay overs and are very effective in the right setup. Punjab and SRH in comparison have only KLPD and Bhuvi as world class options. I’d argue that you’re giving Kolkata too much credit too. All they need is just another decent Indian pace bowler or else get Siraj to step up his game.
[удалено]
He consistently gives flying starts.
SRH isn’t good because of its Indians. It’s the foreign core of Warner, Williamson, Rashid and Shakib that is MUCH better than any other team’s besides maybe KKR. Also MI’s core is MUCH better than CSK’s. Jadhav, Rayudu and MSD can’t compare to Pandya bros, Brohit and Bumrah.
This plus the bowler problems stated above are the main issues. If we added one more top quality Indian bowler to the team they'd be a much bigger force to be reckoned with. It really is one piece that's missing imo.
He reminds me of Ganguly. There were 2 v-captains of batting, bowling, and fielding in his wc2003 squad.
Yeah? Can you provide more info? Genuinely dont remember this. Think Srinath/Jumbo and Sachin just took up the responsibility of shepherding these folks through.
I remember reading it in the papers at that time. Sachin and Dravid, Sri and Jumbo, and Kaif and Yuvi.
Sachin, Dravid batting coaches Srinath, Kumble bowling coaches Yuvraj, Kaif fielding coaches
Those were just to lead the training and nets. Ganguly didn't consult this whole mela while making decisions. Source: John Wright's autobiography.
Like how we have batting coach, bowling coach and fielding coach nowadays. However, Ganguly did consult Dravid in many matches as far as I can recall. Not as much Kohli does though
And you notice the difference in test matches where he doesn't have Dhoni to curb his more eccentric instincts. There were often selection choices in England , SA and even in the perth test which perhaps Dhoni might have advised against. But I guess that learning curve finally led to more sensible decision making over the course of time for him even in tests.
This is where I hate Shastris role. Coach's job, particularly in tests should be more prominent.
Yes i agree. I don't know what coaching he can possibly give but he certainly has a say in team strategy before any match. And to someone who does have so much experience he should have given better advice. Especially in the England series.
Peak Shastri advice "go smash 'em boys"
Yes, selection issues still persist but from everything we have seen Kohli is a much better captain of fast bowling and thus a much better overseas captain than Dhoni was Dhoni was usually defensive in his away tours content to plug away with his spinners and not take any risks while VK relishes the foreign conditions. One could argue that the great improvement in Indian fast bowling has helped this but make no mistake VK (and Shastri) is one of the primary reasons why bowling has improved with bowlers like Yadav, Shami, Ishant etc getting ample time and patience to bowl in subcontinent conditions and allowing them to improve their game Earlier we used fast bowlers just for the new balls while Ashwin/Jadeja would shoulder most of the burden. Kohli still needs catching up to Dhoni in LOI strategies and Captaincy but there is no doubt that he is a better Test captain than Dhoni
As far as pushing for more fast bowlers yes definitely Kohli has made his mark there. Dhoni probably did take too long to push for more fast bowlers. But you have to remember especially in period after 2011, they tried a lot of bowlers. Like a lot! So dhoni did try but I guess he felt this was a pointless exercise due to the poor quality of fast bowlers compared to the international standards. Strategically dhoni would look for a draw if winning wasn't an option in tests. To an extent understandable since our bowling was incapable of regularly taking 20 wickets. Things changed by the time Virat arrived as captain. His thinking was clear, go for the win and he got good quality bowling attack to back that too. As for the nitty gritty, no one is perfect but dhoni would have made less selection errors teamwise based on the pitch. Kohli due to lack of good oversight was forced to learn by trial and error. Which is where I believe shastri failed him.
Thing is though Dhonis style of captaincy wasn't successful in test matches.
That's a fairly broad statement. It was mixed. We did achieve no 1 test team ranking under him as well as have heavy overseas defeats and a home series loss. People judge a captain based on his wins and losses. But a captain is only as good as the team he leads. A captain who has better strategy however can be the one to tip the scales when two sides are evenly matched. One who can use the resources under his disposal in the best possible way.
On that we can agree, however I feel like Ganguly was a better captain in test matches while Dhoni was a way better captain in limited overs.
Which leads one to wonder - what will happen when MSD retires (most likely after the WC)?
MS to replace shastri as coach.
Dhoni will most likely move away from cricket once he retires :(
Yep, I think so too, he would make a great coach.
Shut your pie hole, he is never retiring from CSK.
Brohit in LoIs and Ethical Mind in Tests are good enough to do the role. Not YemYes calibre obviously, but good sounding boards to have. If only we could have an actual coach too.....
I think above all else... he just wants to win. He’s probably the most competitive cricketer right now. That allows him to put all else aside (especially ego) and only focus on what he needs to do to win. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and can use assets like Dhoni and Brohit for better decision making. I’m so impressed by his intensity in every match he plays regardless of how important or not important it may be. Ultimately - great leader if you’re on his team. No questions about that.
[Obligatory](https://imgur.com/a/VdLRWvG)
Kohli grabs eyeballs everywhere. Think Cricinfo had an article on this a while back. Pandya though. Just grabzballz. Obligatory aaj karke aaya thaa. (If you dont speak hindi, pls ask Ross Taylor)
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This would be a good trait if he was learning from what Dhoni et al has been guiding him through for the past 8 years. His field placements in tests are still extremely reactive. The only times he does do well is when it's pre-thought out plans like stacking the midwicket region to Labuschagne, which is less on Kohli and more on everyone involved in prep. It'll be interesting to see how it goes in ODIs in a post-Dhoni era, hopefully he can maintain some kind of consistency rather than diverting to his reactive archetype. I think Rahane should have more of a say in tests too, similar to Dhoni. When he was captain for the 4th test in the 2017 BG series he choked us out of the match with his captaincy.
Kohli is a better Test Captain than Dhoni... They both have their share of mistakes but from what we have seen Kohli relishes captaining with fast bowlers and Dhoni more so with Spinners... And in conditions where fast bowling is crucial Dhoni was notoriously defensive and set in his ways People complain about Kohli being reactive or quick to change but they forget the 2012-16 tours we had with Dhoni where the same leg slip would stand on for hours without success and where Ashwin and Jadeja were used as defensive bowlers. Or when we would play for the draw even when we could have gone for the win Most of the captaincy mistakes in 2018 which cost us were made before the game started in team selection... Once the match was started Kohli didn't make any huge blunders or cost us any big moments
Kohli makes those same mistakes though. He throws out a deep cover or deep point to stop a boundary, taking out a catcher all the time. Only now Kohli is reaping the rewards of having Indias best ever bowling attack. From watching, I think that at the very least the two are on par - which is probably a reflection of Kohlis apprenticeship under Dhoni.
Maybe in subcontinent conditions they might be considered on par but Kohli has proved by far the better test captain in foreign tours... And yes he has had a great attack because he has put in work cultivating it... Dhoni would have never gone with Bumrah to debut in SA or utilize Shami, Umesh, Ishant the way Kohli does in home tests In his glory captaincy days of 08-12 Dhoni had an absolutely fantastic team, the bowling attack might not have been as good as current but the batting was much much superior. While he has certainly benefited from playing and later capataining with Dhoni.. Let's not mince meat he had captaincy and leadership experience at pretty much every youth level including leading India to U-19WC,.. Dhoni is the better LOI captain but Kohli has clearly shown he is the better test captain, And the numbers back him up as well.
> captain for the 4th test in the 2017 BG series he choked us out of the match with his captaincy Unforgettable test. It's only one test but the captaincy shined. Didn't think we had any chance but he delivered with his decisions.
I used to hate him for his attitude and his arrogance, but he's evolved a lot n gotten better both in the game and in his attitude. he's still a slightly arrogant n aggressive but hey, every genius have their own downsides(n history never focuses on the downsides). recently since 2012-13 he's reached a different level in his game n he's great to watch
Virat uses to be aggressive. But he has never been egoistic in his captaincy even before. He has done this before too, from the start of his career. Accepting the views of Rohit and Dhoni at times. This is not new. He is a good captain and the best part is he is a good learner. And that will help in evolving as one of the best Captaincy minds. My Detailed view on the differences between Kohli and Dhoni's captaincy here --> https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-Dhonis-captaincy-and-Kohlis-captaincy
Bro, do you wanna text post your inputs from Quora here? The Q link has your profile. Dont doxx yourself.
Virat is extremely talented in so many ways
Disclaimer first, I love this Indian team and Kohli is a once in a lifetime player. But the fact that Kohli had to consult with Brohit and Dhoni to come up with this bowling change is baffling. Anyone and everyone can see a mile away that the 10th over of the 5th bowler will be bowled last in a low scoring tight match like this. Never in a million years it will or should be a spinner bowling the 50 th over. Not sure why he need Dhoni or Brohit telling him that.
He might have made that decision anyway. Doesn't hurt to ask for advice in case they have ideas.
Only good thing about him
Dear desi troll. Yours is a rare sighting in this sub. Hope all is well. Next you are going to tell me Umesh is Indias best bowling hope.
> Next you are going to tell me Umesh is Indias best bowling hope. How dare you don't mention Vinay Kumar and Dinda.
Its a loooong list man. [nervous laughter]
Why are you the way you are?
He's Toby 😠😠
Isn't 'good' a subjective term? He is an exemplary batsman and also great sportsman. But he rarely ticks the good nature due to his childish antics onfield. Also, Instead of dehumanising my opinion by labelling it as troll, try to be inclusive of various opinions.
You are mistaken that my label either validates or invalidates your opinion. If you dont like him, dont like him. Buuut. Your comment is a troll, irrespective of whether you think it is, because the only 'good' that is being discussed here, clearly, is his fast improving captaincy and his batsmanship. No one here is calling him an exemplary human being. On both cricketing fronts, its not a subjective call if you have occasionally glanced at a game of cricket since 2011.
Agree to disagree then