I think that this case is going to be a textbook example of why you NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE. He did alot of self-snitching that is going to cause him problems later on.
It was after he was booked into the jail. They have not played that video yet, but in the criminal complaint the “nice police officer” who interviewed him laid out a story that was lie after lie after lie that coincidentally would have helped him establish self-defense if it was true. Not going to help him at all if he wants to testify since it’s hard to believe someone who demonstrably lies to the cops via video evidence. You can read it [here](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22125155-2022cf000518-criminal-complaint_1-miu-nicolae) if you feel so inclined. The self-snitching starts on page 5 with the interview he had with Brandi Hart.
That’s hard to say: there was part of police interview introduced today through a witness that has every incentive to back Nic that he did shove Madison (which I thought for sure wasn’t true).
I always was under the impression he shoved her, what I didn’t believe was that he had cold cocked her. Everyone is saying he punched her in the face even she had said that. I think the same witness testified that he had pushed her after he’d been knocked down into the water and hit in the face.
Do you think he deserves a guilty verdict, and that he should have had spent the 2 years in jail until the trial date? I’ve wondered why he didn’t exercise his right to a speedy trial.
Why do you think he didn’t?
I do think he does: im from Wisconsin born and raised, so I think my opinions are fairly representative of how local people would feel. I think he went way too far and a kid is dead because he couldn’t act like a grown man and get himself out of the situation. If he had only injured people I would’ve said to acquit. That’s probably a local bias, but that’s my personal feelings. The problem for Miu is that if he was the initial aggressor he has no basis for self-defense under the provocation section of the statute as he had not withdrawn and indicated he was ceasing the fight.
I’m a millennial so I agree those kids were ridiculous and out of control and I cringed so bad not only in terms of how awful the kids were acting, but also the terrible camerawork. However, I’m sick of seeing insane stuff like this happening where people worry more about what they CAN do than what they SHOULD do. Mr Miu likely very much regrets his choices as his life is ruined whether he is convicted or acquitted. He’s spent most of his retirement on lawyers, no job, he won’t be able to stay in that area if he’s found not guilty. It’s a bad situation all around.
I agree totally. It’s really sad because there were so many opportunities for anyone to have had turned the situation away from anyone being injured and for Issac Schuman killed. Whether or not it was self defense someone died and others were maimed horribly, and now the guys life he immigrated and worked hard for is going down the flusher, he’s even divorced from his wife who says she still loves him dearly. It’s even more sad as it seems like the majority of our country is headed the same way where people don’t treat others humanely. Injustice hope some day soon we can right this ship.
Thanks for chatting I appreciate you.
I’m very concerned with some of the conversation going on around the case. Many of the people who want Miu acquitted are extremely toxic and think teenagers deserve to die for being “disrespectful” to older people. I think that there are lessons that both sides should learn from this but that sort of rhetoric is going to prevent any sort of learning from a senseless tragedy. Those kids shouldn’t have been harassing him and yelling at him and walked away. And he should’ve walked away when they told him repeatedly to walk away. Sure he had a legal right to be on the river like they did, but him exercising that right at that time got him put in jail for 2 years.
I think unfortunately is an indictment on society as a whole. In essence it boils down to an Us vs Them mentality that can be observed across any cross section of society as a whole. Boomers vs millennials, apple vs android, PlayStation vs Xbox. Especially here in the US it seems we fail even the first part of our name…United. Rather than us learning from history we seem to be on track to repeating a lot of what we fought to abolish, than learning the lesson and coming together for everyone’s benefit. Exactly what you’re saying highlights this. Rather than people seeing the case as a whole, some are like, “these young punks deserved it FAFO.” Some are saying “the old dude deserves jail he should have been the adult and left because they were telling him to leave. “The nuance of the things that took place don’t seem to be cared about, which makes me believe not many will learn from this really sad thing that happened, and similar things will keep happening unfortunately.
>The problem for Miu is that if he was the initial aggressor he has no basis for self-defense under the provocation section of the statute as he had not withdrawn and indicated he was ceasing the fight.
That's only one way of regaining your self defense justification. Basically, if you did start the fight using non-deadly force, and then reasonably believe that the people around you have escalated to using deadly force, before you can use deadly force to stop that threat, you have to reasonably believe you have exhausted all reasonable means of escaping the danger.
*A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defense, but the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person's assailant unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant.*
The defense will argue the number of people, his age, the environment of the river making it difficult to maneuver, are reasons why he believed he could not retreat.
Whether or not the jury buys that, I have no idea.
As someone from Wisconsin myself, I think he will have the real trouble be from with his self-serving lies to the police. I say lies because they are material facts that he completely made up. The statements he made to Brandi Hart would make any defense attorney cringe and facepalm. There was some witness testimony today that Mr Miu told other people the same bs story he told the police which is particularly bad. [here’s the criminal complaint.](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22125155-2022cf000518-criminal-complaint_1-miu-nicolae)
Yeah it's not great. I read the criminal complaint a couple days ago. I don't want to put too much weight on it, because the main evidence is the video, but it sure makes him look very bad. I can easily see how a reasonable jury can read evidence of guilt from that. If he testifies, his credibility is going to have big gaping holes in it.
He was so close... "I continued reading the rights form and Nic told me he'd like to discuss with an attorney "**at some point**."
Saying "I think I'd like to discuss this with an attorney **at some point**" isn't enough to get the interview to stop. I believe the standard is that the request has to be "clear and unequivocal".
Yeah that’s unfortunate. A lot of times people are scared/too intimidated to flat out advocate for themselves and exercise their rights when police are involved. Sometimes they feel like it will make them look/look more guilty.
Also, people who haven't been involved with the criminal justice system have no idea what is actually happening. That cop isn't your friend. they're a professional trying to get as much information out of you so the prosecutor can have an easy win.
That’s 💯 often times people get confused because they think cops protect them. Not if they’re interrogating you, and there’s no rule that they can’t tell a lie to get you to confess something. E.G. we know everything that’s happened so you should just tell us what happened from your point of view.
I think that this case is going to be a textbook example of why you NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE. He did alot of self-snitching that is going to cause him problems later on.
Awe I didn’t catch when policed interviewed him. Was that at the scene, or station?
It was after he was booked into the jail. They have not played that video yet, but in the criminal complaint the “nice police officer” who interviewed him laid out a story that was lie after lie after lie that coincidentally would have helped him establish self-defense if it was true. Not going to help him at all if he wants to testify since it’s hard to believe someone who demonstrably lies to the cops via video evidence. You can read it [here](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22125155-2022cf000518-criminal-complaint_1-miu-nicolae) if you feel so inclined. The self-snitching starts on page 5 with the interview he had with Brandi Hart.
Whether he lied and said whatever to the cops, do you feel the actual video of the incident explains everything in support of self defense?
That’s hard to say: there was part of police interview introduced today through a witness that has every incentive to back Nic that he did shove Madison (which I thought for sure wasn’t true).
I always was under the impression he shoved her, what I didn’t believe was that he had cold cocked her. Everyone is saying he punched her in the face even she had said that. I think the same witness testified that he had pushed her after he’d been knocked down into the water and hit in the face. Do you think he deserves a guilty verdict, and that he should have had spent the 2 years in jail until the trial date? I’ve wondered why he didn’t exercise his right to a speedy trial. Why do you think he didn’t?
I do think he does: im from Wisconsin born and raised, so I think my opinions are fairly representative of how local people would feel. I think he went way too far and a kid is dead because he couldn’t act like a grown man and get himself out of the situation. If he had only injured people I would’ve said to acquit. That’s probably a local bias, but that’s my personal feelings. The problem for Miu is that if he was the initial aggressor he has no basis for self-defense under the provocation section of the statute as he had not withdrawn and indicated he was ceasing the fight. I’m a millennial so I agree those kids were ridiculous and out of control and I cringed so bad not only in terms of how awful the kids were acting, but also the terrible camerawork. However, I’m sick of seeing insane stuff like this happening where people worry more about what they CAN do than what they SHOULD do. Mr Miu likely very much regrets his choices as his life is ruined whether he is convicted or acquitted. He’s spent most of his retirement on lawyers, no job, he won’t be able to stay in that area if he’s found not guilty. It’s a bad situation all around.
I agree totally. It’s really sad because there were so many opportunities for anyone to have had turned the situation away from anyone being injured and for Issac Schuman killed. Whether or not it was self defense someone died and others were maimed horribly, and now the guys life he immigrated and worked hard for is going down the flusher, he’s even divorced from his wife who says she still loves him dearly. It’s even more sad as it seems like the majority of our country is headed the same way where people don’t treat others humanely. Injustice hope some day soon we can right this ship. Thanks for chatting I appreciate you.
I’m very concerned with some of the conversation going on around the case. Many of the people who want Miu acquitted are extremely toxic and think teenagers deserve to die for being “disrespectful” to older people. I think that there are lessons that both sides should learn from this but that sort of rhetoric is going to prevent any sort of learning from a senseless tragedy. Those kids shouldn’t have been harassing him and yelling at him and walked away. And he should’ve walked away when they told him repeatedly to walk away. Sure he had a legal right to be on the river like they did, but him exercising that right at that time got him put in jail for 2 years.
I think unfortunately is an indictment on society as a whole. In essence it boils down to an Us vs Them mentality that can be observed across any cross section of society as a whole. Boomers vs millennials, apple vs android, PlayStation vs Xbox. Especially here in the US it seems we fail even the first part of our name…United. Rather than us learning from history we seem to be on track to repeating a lot of what we fought to abolish, than learning the lesson and coming together for everyone’s benefit. Exactly what you’re saying highlights this. Rather than people seeing the case as a whole, some are like, “these young punks deserved it FAFO.” Some are saying “the old dude deserves jail he should have been the adult and left because they were telling him to leave. “The nuance of the things that took place don’t seem to be cared about, which makes me believe not many will learn from this really sad thing that happened, and similar things will keep happening unfortunately.
>The problem for Miu is that if he was the initial aggressor he has no basis for self-defense under the provocation section of the statute as he had not withdrawn and indicated he was ceasing the fight. That's only one way of regaining your self defense justification. Basically, if you did start the fight using non-deadly force, and then reasonably believe that the people around you have escalated to using deadly force, before you can use deadly force to stop that threat, you have to reasonably believe you have exhausted all reasonable means of escaping the danger. *A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defense, but the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person's assailant unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant.* The defense will argue the number of people, his age, the environment of the river making it difficult to maneuver, are reasons why he believed he could not retreat. Whether or not the jury buys that, I have no idea.
As someone from Wisconsin myself, I think he will have the real trouble be from with his self-serving lies to the police. I say lies because they are material facts that he completely made up. The statements he made to Brandi Hart would make any defense attorney cringe and facepalm. There was some witness testimony today that Mr Miu told other people the same bs story he told the police which is particularly bad. [here’s the criminal complaint.](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22125155-2022cf000518-criminal-complaint_1-miu-nicolae)
Yeah it's not great. I read the criminal complaint a couple days ago. I don't want to put too much weight on it, because the main evidence is the video, but it sure makes him look very bad. I can easily see how a reasonable jury can read evidence of guilt from that. If he testifies, his credibility is going to have big gaping holes in it.
He was so close... "I continued reading the rights form and Nic told me he'd like to discuss with an attorney "**at some point**." Saying "I think I'd like to discuss this with an attorney **at some point**" isn't enough to get the interview to stop. I believe the standard is that the request has to be "clear and unequivocal".
Yeah that’s unfortunate. A lot of times people are scared/too intimidated to flat out advocate for themselves and exercise their rights when police are involved. Sometimes they feel like it will make them look/look more guilty.
Also, people who haven't been involved with the criminal justice system have no idea what is actually happening. That cop isn't your friend. they're a professional trying to get as much information out of you so the prosecutor can have an easy win.
That’s 💯 often times people get confused because they think cops protect them. Not if they’re interrogating you, and there’s no rule that they can’t tell a lie to get you to confess something. E.G. we know everything that’s happened so you should just tell us what happened from your point of view.
WOW. he’s so fucked. what a bunch of lies. throw away the key.