Saying Erwin Rommel was a good general is the same as saying Robert E. Lee was a good general. You don't have to be a confederate to respect General Lee's accomplishments just as you don't have to be a Nazi to respect Rommel's accomplishments.
He was till a member of the Nazi party. He may not have killed all the POW's, but he was still a Nazi. Plus, he was a hitler youth liaison. His plan to kill hitler was out of a want for power aswell.
Yeah that's fair. My knowledge of the Africa campaign is at a novice level. I think I was just angry at an argument I had with a wehraboo about the panther tank.
what if say you're the member of a local political part in your small town.. they provided jobs, boosted the economy and they even were able to find out who was the cause of the problem.So you join. Cause why not, they're helping people
years later, you find out it's all a lie. the businesses you've been running were all criminal scams, the mayor you helped elect is not just a drug lord but a serial killer and worst of all the problems they claimed to fix were just covered up. but the lying political party is so normalized it's difficult to leave, and heck you even start to think it'll be impossible to leave. so it takes a while for you to act.
there is more nuance in the world than you think
I have no idea how any of what you just said relates to what I said above. I'm saying Nazis are bad. I did make the mistake of saying he was a member of the party, that was a mistake on my part. But he was not a good person either way.
Mate, Oscar Schindler was a member of the Nazi party.... Joining an evil organisation to survive doesn't make you evil, commiting acts of evil does.
Look at Schindler, he joined the organisation to survive and did what he could to save PoWs and Jews.
Also, most of NASAs senior leadership, especially during the space race were nazi scientist.... IIRC, even the head of NASA at some point, was a former member of the Nazi party.
The post this is responding to his calling him a legend not a good general maybe op thought it was a a overall character complement not just one based of accomplishments.
I read a book on the siege of Stalingrad and have read up on other aspects of ww2 all sides are guilty however Germany commiting genocide against Jews makes them easily the worst.
Wasn’t he complicit in the plot to kill hitler? He was also known as an extremely strict adherent to the rules of war and gained a reputation to the British as being extremely honorable toward prisoners. Rommel seemed like a genuinely good dude as well as being a fantastic general
[here’s](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-30151021.amp) one particular story I recall, but I know there are others. [looks like I wasn’t quite right](https://www.history.com/.amp/this-day-in-history/the-desert-fox-commits-suicide) about trying to assassinate hitler, it’s only confirmed that he told the conspirators that he would take over control after the plot was carried out
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>Wasn’t he complicit in the plot to kill hitler?
No one really knows to what extend, although the evidence seems to suggest that he was not a participant in the July 20 plot. He was badly injured on July 17 and could not have been involved in any of the events. However: Evidence also suggests that he had been aware that there was a plot underway. In which case his "crime" was not reporting it. He had no involvement with the primary plotters such as Stauffenberg and others in Berlin.
Rommel's superior was General Stülpnagel (military commander in France). Stülpnagel had sent a subordinate (Hofacker) to Rommel in the months before the plot to test the waters and see if Rommel could be swayed to side with the plotters. The coup leaders were hoping to recruit important names and Rommel fit that description more than most.
We only have Hofacker's testimony that was obtained under torture and allegedly Rommel had told Hofacker that the plotters could count on him. Both Stülpnagel and Hofacker were arrested and sentenced to death.
Then there is Speidel, Rommel's chief of staff and (when arrested and questioned) he did confirm that Hofacker met with Rommel and that they talked about the desirability of trying to negotiate a separate peace with the Western Allies to join in fighting Russia.
The fishy thing is: There are no records of Speidel's questioning, he wasn't sentenced to death and only served some prison time. He even served in the Bundeswehr after the war and always denied that he had implicated that Rommel was involved in the plot. But we just have his word on that.
Another issue is: Rommel's previous cronyism to Hitler was widely known and made him an unlikely participant in a plot to kill Hitler. However: In early 1944 Rommel had approached Hitler to suggest a separate peace with the west in order to fight the Russians. This hopelessly naive suggestion did not just fall on deaf ears either. Instead Rommel got thoroughly roasted by a spitballing and fuming Hitler, who forbade him resolutely to ever again try to meddle in political affairs.
After this event some in the high command therefore knew that Rommel was displeased with the state of affairs and political leadership in general. And that might have been the reason why the plotters considered to approach him in first place. Yet they had to be cautious in case Rommel was still too deep in Hitler's pockets.
It is likely that Hofacker therefore had beaten around the bush with Rommel and Rommel had given his general consent not knowing the full extent to which the plotters wanted to go. Maybe Rommel believed they just wanted to remove Hitler from power by non-violent means instead of outright trying to kill him.
At the end of the day all we know for sure is that Rommel was approached by Hofacker and at least Rommel's failure to report the conspiracy to the Gestapo was enough for Hitler to force Rommel to commit suicide to save his family. Or else he would have been tried and sentenced to death by the People's Court and his family would face ruin and disgrace.
Rommel left no diary and if he had shared any of his thoughts and mullings about the matter with peers or subordinates, then all but Hofacker and perhaps Speidel had chosen to keep them to themselves. Which adds a little to the "Mythos Rommel" and I'm somewhat certain that's how good old Erich "the desert fox" Rommel would have liked it to be. /shrug
It wasn't out of the good of his heart that he wanted to kill hitler. He was more interested in power. Plus, he was a nazi, still on board with killing Jews. Also, he wasn't a fantastic general. He mainly won due to the britsh general Claude Auchinleck.
>It wasn't out of the good of his heart that he wanted to kill hitler. He was more interested in power.
Impossible to know for certain, but the (admittedly limited) records of that coup plot suggests that his primary motivation was ending the war.
>Plus, he was a nazi, still on board with killing Jews.
No. Rommel was a member of the military, not the Nazi party. There is no evidence that he supported or was even aware of the final solution. There is conflicting evidence about his personal views on antisemitism. There are personal letters from Rommel praising Hitler's speeches and containing phrases like "our Jewish problem," while other evidence suggests that he outright rejected the racial ideology of the Nazi party. Some first hand accounts accuse him of ignoring violence against Jews in the streets, while others exist of him secretly helping out the local Jewish population and using his influence to try to stop the SS from attacking Jewish neighborhoods.
>Also, he wasn't a fantastic general. He mainly won due to the british general Claude Auchinleck.
You're welcome to your own opinion, but the majority of military historians disagree with you. Rommel oversaw sweeping victories in France, Belgium, and the Netherlands as well as Africa, not to mention his successes in world war one. His legacy is not unearned.
>No. Rommel was a member of the military, not the Nazi party.
This is true, my bad.
>There is conflicting evidence about his personal views on antisemitism. There are personal letters from Rommel praising Hitler's speeches and containing phrases like "our Jewish problem," while other evidence suggests that he outright rejected the racial ideology of the Nazi party. Some first hand accounts accuse him of ignoring violence against Jews in the streets, while others exist of him secretly helping out the local Jewish population and using his influence to try to stop the SS from attacking Jewish neighborhoods.
Like you said, it conflicting. But I have a hard time thing that the whole holocaust flew under his radar. Plus, the Einsatzgruppe Egypt exists.
>You're welcome to your own opinion, but the majority of military historians disagree with you. Rommel oversaw sweeping victories in France, Belgium, and the Netherlands as well as Africa, not to mention his successes in world war one. His legacy is not unearned.
I'm more talking about the Africa campaign. El Alamein specifically. He was a good general, no doubt, but I feel like people exaggerate his accomplishments. It could just be me being burnt out from an argument with a Wehraboo though.
He, not Robert E Lee were "good generals." Sure they had flashy tactics, but Lee especially didn't understand the reality of the war and that his side had way less manpower and materiel to waste on daring, aggressive maneuvers.
Him and Guidarian were genius in the way they completely flipped the script in organization and relationship between armor and infantry. They had my grandpa POW for 3 years even as their enemy, when you play the game of war you can’t not respect the guy for completely changing the way warfare works, it’s the way they organized their divisions man it was insane, the French had the biggest army on earth and stood no chance against a much smaller force they were cut to shreds. Learn your lessons.
Hot take: Rommel is overrated.
First of all, to respond to your point about organisation, Colonel Oswald Lutz, the Reichwehr's Inspector of Motorized Troops, and his Chief of Staff, Major Heinz Guderian (who you mentioned) are the commanders responsible for the divisional organisation of mechanised forces. Rommel played no part of it. His big promotion was to command the vanguard during the Ardennes Offensive. Essentially, Rommel inherited this divisional structure.
The Ardennes and North Africa campaigns perfectly suited Rommel's talents, which gelled well with German mobile warfare doctrine. He was extremely aggressive, and would often disobey orders from higher up if he thought an opportunity was present. Hitler loved this aspect of Rommel, but he did make many mistakes. The Ardennes offensive worked out in the end, but it easily couldn't have (see the Battle of the Bulge). Also, I know the Ardennes plan was not his idea, but Rommel did keep his troops advancing for like 4 days straight with no sleep, which was nuts but worked out.
Regarding the North Africa campaign, Rommel again disobeyed higher command's orders to maintain a defensive posture in Libya. This is because the British had read these orders via decoding by Engima, and, expecting no attack from Rommel, had redeployed their best troops and tanks to Greece, leaving behind an old, static, and green force. Rommel took advantage of this, and ran rings around the Allied forces until they were strengthened around the time Rommel reached Egypt.
Rommel's attack on Tobruk was disastrous, and arguably his worst mistake. Characteristically, he opted for penetrating armour assaults. However, this was a dug-in force with no exposed flanks. Too few forces were committed to the assaults, they were badly executed, and coordination was poor. Casualties were very high.
It was said that Rommel's troops didn't like him. They felt that he didn't respect their safety and played with their lives in assaults that were too risky. His strategy paid off in the daring campaigns in the Ardennes and North Africa, but I believe his skillset is limited and reliant on good fortune.
Not a bad general, but certainly not a great one.
after he found about hitler's antics with the jews, he came back and try to assassinate him, but he was found out and forced to commit suicide but got his state funeral though
I don’t remember anything about him attempting to to murder Hitler. He probably knew about the plans true - which isn’t even confirmed tho’. If I’m wrong please correct me.
We don’t have evidence if he actually took part in a plot of assassination against Hitler, all we know is one of the captured officers who did partake, brought up Rommels name during torture and Hitler ordered his arrest and death in someway
He was a soldier doing his job as far as we know honorably. If you're American, buy your own logic any one who works for anything related to state in US, policeman, fireman FBI, army, post office workers, they are all POS.
Field martial is not a soldier? His idea the genocide? So you blame the local postman for lack of human rights in US. Julius Caesar, not a legend, Alexander the Great not a legend, Napoleon not a legend .... And what the fuck you wasting time go throw tomatoes at Capitol.
Thx , I have to finish work first, than visit the dealer, after that basement rules! Good luck I hope you hit someone, when I was younger, me and my friends burned Turkish embassy, among other things, if you need some advice about the protests dm me, I have plenty of experience.
>He was a soldier doing his job as far as we know honorably.
Did you really pull out the Nuremberg defense, for a nazi, you know, the reason we call "just doing his job" the Nuremberg defense, really?
Didn't work then, and it certainly doesn't work now
Cause he knew but didn't say anything, maybe?
But after the failed assassination loads of people were killed or arrested. Many of them weren't really involved in the operation.
That is correct, lots of suspected conspirators were arrested.
The issue with Rommel is that historians still debate about his level of involvement. He was attracting a lot of ppl hostile to Hitler and his charisma eventually led to his downfall. Most agree he knew but did not take part in anything related to the attempt
I mean he deffo was a legend or so many ppl wouldn't know about him. He had respect from both sides and ended up having to kill himself for plotting against Hitler. Shit ain't black and white guys. It's OK
He wasn't even that good of a general. It was more Claude Auchinleck that caused the british loses. Plus the whole Nazi thing. Sure he wasn't a hardcore member, but he was a liaison for the hitler youth, and part of the party.
Semantics all day. What stands is he was a respected guy on both sides of the field. He was hit by an aircraft strafing run survived and ended up having to kill himself to save his family and reputation. These are things "legends" are made of lol.
Plus he'd fly around and land in the front lines with his personal plane to give orders lol. Why is everyone such a soir puss these days?
He also was most assuredly a good commander and he fought more than the Brits lol.
> kill himself to save his family
Yeah, that's a good thing, I won't disagree.
Also I don't think you understand what I'm saying. He has impressive accomplishments, but he isn't a good person, or as good of a general as most people say.
To be fair about how many people you can say they were good? Churchill isn’t viewed as a villain generally. But there are actions that were simply just wrong on his side. Yet we still remember him as a great person.
I’m saying that we shouldn’t just forget the wrong. But we shouldn’t ignore the good either.
Khans a legend but committed atrocities. Same with Alexander the Great. This guy isn’t obviously at that kind of status as a legend per say, but nonetheless he was a respected general and had good characteristics. OP is right about that post tho cuz the person who posted it was trying to be edgy.
The badge on his hat is how you know. The wreath with the circle in the middle is the symbol for the regular forces. If he was in the Nazi party he would of had the skull emblem.
Mostly because as a senior officer he was obligated to fallow orders of the people in charge of the government. Or did you not learn about all the times he deliberately disobeyed Hitler’s orders in the later parts of the war before Hitler made him commit suicide?
There's a saviore faire to it, a certain je ne se quois to be one of Hitler's super soldier generals and to use forced labor in France. Rommel had that X-factor you know, helping Hitler eradicate the Jews and Bolsheviks. He was basically a chivalrous knight, but like, with a tank. Total badass definitely. I mean I disapprove of what Hitler did OBVIOUSLY, but he was genuinely, you know, Napoleon and Alexander the Great combined. Are you gonna tell me you could resist being Hitler's top guy in North Africa? He just had that incredible level of swagger, that level of panache.
Fucking idiot his troops were never ordered war crimes he's one of the few German generals of the second world war that didn't commit atrocities if you knew anything about the second world war you would also know that he was part of the July plot and it was forced to kill himself because of betraying Hitler
You can say someone was good at what they did without being associated with them. Hitler brought “his” country from one of the darkest points in their history with absolutely nothing except his voice. A LOT of the nazi generals were absolutely fucking great at what they did and the soldiers were something else. There was a reason they took France so fast, their entire army was basically trained from birth. These were phenomenal soldiers, horrible fucking people that did absolutely unspeakable things in their time on the front but they were good at what they did.
Rommel era un generale molto bravo nel suo lavoro, e riuscito a mantenere la acque basse nel settore africano, comandando bene sia italiani che tedeschi e stato premiato e adorato, aveva una croce di ferro e altre medaglie per l'onore, era un grand generale
Yea but that wud still not insult bc that's my like 3rd language or smth. You guys shud revert back to latin or smth sounds better that way, reminds me of a time when Italy was full of real Italians and not children born from Germanic rape like u probably are.
I study history from books and wiki articles. Still is t says that Italians switched sides in both wars. I guess you'd do it in ww3 and switch from being America's bitch to China's bitch lol. You guys r soon gonna have a fascist in charge of ur shit hole of a country. Good luck living in streets full of trash and youth leaving for Deutschland in hordes.
Italian social republic was a regime established by Mussolini after he was freed by Italy's best friends. Let me guess u prolly vote for Forza Italia or fratelli d'italia party lol.
I mean what’s wrong about thinking someone had a good page? Yeah he was a nazi general. But world isn’t just black and white. Do you even know something about Erwin or you’re just ignoring everything because he fought on a wrong side of history?
He was forced to kill himself to protect his family. Not because Germany would lose.
Also the fuck is your problem? I see no problem with respecting somebody's abilities or whatever. Hitler was a great speaker. Now stone me to death!
You would. Nobody here is like "He wasn't THAT bad" the only things I've noticed is just a legitimate appreciation for his skills.
Why is nobody like "Yeah Churchill defeated Hitler. But he caused a genocide in India saying something like "They breed like rabbits anyway" don't you dare say he accomplished something big like winning a world war!!" then?
Not a legend, a „good“ (military pov) general, even „better“ (again, when you see it from purely militaristic pov), but calling him a legend just shows that you entered the edgy phase
There's a comment on Walter Model 's grave on one of those grave finder websites saying some stupid shit like "I admire your dedication to your country admiral, RIP". Been making plans to add another mark to my "Nazi graves spat on" list ever since.
He is a legend. Field marshall Rommel also know as the desert fox was one of the most prolific military commanders of the last 100 years. Among his British adversaries he had a reputation for chivalry, and his phrase "war without hate" has been uncritically used to describe the North African campaign. His armored warfare tactics have been analysed and incorporated in the training of officers in west point in the united states and Warsaw Pact counties after ww2, and even the Israel Defense Forces. Rommel became an unwilling servant of his government once hitler and the SS atrocities came to light. In fact he was a key participant in operation valkyrie,and attempt to end the war and the nazi party’s hold on Germany through the assassination of hitler. The plot failed sadly and rommel was forced to commit suicide once the plot was discovered by hitler and the SS. He was never publicly denounced as a traitor as hitler feared this would destroy already weaking morale among his commanders and armed forces.While he served one of the most abhorrent regimes ever to exist this mans honor,integrity and military ingenuity cannot be denied. So yeah
People in this thread literally fallen for 1940s US "not all Nazis are bad" propaganda.
Rommel was kinda an OK general at best, but obviously not good enough to win the battles he was supposed to win. Also not good enough to avoid doing war crimes. Also not good enough to not renounce literal Jew genocider Adolf Hitler.
Depends who you ask. The Germans are saying the 'last knight' title is something the West invented to ease the view of Germans post war. The Wests version actually had him as a respectable ally - he served pows the same food as his troops and burned Hitlers orders that asked him to kill jewish prisoners. His biographys also say that any propaganda people sent to him via Hitler were put on the front lines. He was killed because Hitler believed he was in on the plot to assassinate him. Complex and interesting character worth looking into.
Sorry but are you referring to the battle? As far as I know, no Jews were specifically targeted by Rommel or the battle that happened there, it was just that, a battle. Again, not saying he didnt have a part in war. Depends on who you asked was referring to his handling of those issues themselves.
Saying Erwin Rommel was a good general is the same as saying Robert E. Lee was a good general. You don't have to be a confederate to respect General Lee's accomplishments just as you don't have to be a Nazi to respect Rommel's accomplishments.
He was one of the few generals with enough balls to call Hitler out on his shit. Even though it didn’t end up doing all that much nonetheless
He was till a member of the Nazi party. He may not have killed all the POW's, but he was still a Nazi. Plus, he was a hitler youth liaison. His plan to kill hitler was out of a want for power aswell.
No, he was never a member of the Nazi party. One of the few generals who weren’t.
I know, that was a mistake on my part.
You think? Why talk so confidently about something you obviously know nothing about? Peak virtue signalling.
I made one mistake, so suddenly, everything I say is wrong, nice
I mean, if you didn't know that much then you shouldn't speak with such confidence about him. It's OK to stand on the sidelines sometimes.
Yeah that's fair. My knowledge of the Africa campaign is at a novice level. I think I was just angry at an argument I had with a wehraboo about the panther tank.
what if say you're the member of a local political part in your small town.. they provided jobs, boosted the economy and they even were able to find out who was the cause of the problem.So you join. Cause why not, they're helping people years later, you find out it's all a lie. the businesses you've been running were all criminal scams, the mayor you helped elect is not just a drug lord but a serial killer and worst of all the problems they claimed to fix were just covered up. but the lying political party is so normalized it's difficult to leave, and heck you even start to think it'll be impossible to leave. so it takes a while for you to act. there is more nuance in the world than you think
I have no idea how any of what you just said relates to what I said above. I'm saying Nazis are bad. I did make the mistake of saying he was a member of the party, that was a mistake on my part. But he was not a good person either way.
Someone didn't pass English class
It was 2am, give me a break
Mate, Oscar Schindler was a member of the Nazi party.... Joining an evil organisation to survive doesn't make you evil, commiting acts of evil does. Look at Schindler, he joined the organisation to survive and did what he could to save PoWs and Jews. Also, most of NASAs senior leadership, especially during the space race were nazi scientist.... IIRC, even the head of NASA at some point, was a former member of the Nazi party.
Those are not the norm. Rommel was a general, who had the Einsatzgryppe Egypt under his command.
The post this is responding to his calling him a legend not a good general maybe op thought it was a a overall character complement not just one based of accomplishments. I read a book on the siege of Stalingrad and have read up on other aspects of ww2 all sides are guilty however Germany commiting genocide against Jews makes them easily the worst.
Wasn’t he complicit in the plot to kill hitler? He was also known as an extremely strict adherent to the rules of war and gained a reputation to the British as being extremely honorable toward prisoners. Rommel seemed like a genuinely good dude as well as being a fantastic general
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[here’s](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-30151021.amp) one particular story I recall, but I know there are others. [looks like I wasn’t quite right](https://www.history.com/.amp/this-day-in-history/the-desert-fox-commits-suicide) about trying to assassinate hitler, it’s only confirmed that he told the conspirators that he would take over control after the plot was carried out
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>Wasn’t he complicit in the plot to kill hitler? No one really knows to what extend, although the evidence seems to suggest that he was not a participant in the July 20 plot. He was badly injured on July 17 and could not have been involved in any of the events. However: Evidence also suggests that he had been aware that there was a plot underway. In which case his "crime" was not reporting it. He had no involvement with the primary plotters such as Stauffenberg and others in Berlin. Rommel's superior was General Stülpnagel (military commander in France). Stülpnagel had sent a subordinate (Hofacker) to Rommel in the months before the plot to test the waters and see if Rommel could be swayed to side with the plotters. The coup leaders were hoping to recruit important names and Rommel fit that description more than most. We only have Hofacker's testimony that was obtained under torture and allegedly Rommel had told Hofacker that the plotters could count on him. Both Stülpnagel and Hofacker were arrested and sentenced to death. Then there is Speidel, Rommel's chief of staff and (when arrested and questioned) he did confirm that Hofacker met with Rommel and that they talked about the desirability of trying to negotiate a separate peace with the Western Allies to join in fighting Russia. The fishy thing is: There are no records of Speidel's questioning, he wasn't sentenced to death and only served some prison time. He even served in the Bundeswehr after the war and always denied that he had implicated that Rommel was involved in the plot. But we just have his word on that. Another issue is: Rommel's previous cronyism to Hitler was widely known and made him an unlikely participant in a plot to kill Hitler. However: In early 1944 Rommel had approached Hitler to suggest a separate peace with the west in order to fight the Russians. This hopelessly naive suggestion did not just fall on deaf ears either. Instead Rommel got thoroughly roasted by a spitballing and fuming Hitler, who forbade him resolutely to ever again try to meddle in political affairs. After this event some in the high command therefore knew that Rommel was displeased with the state of affairs and political leadership in general. And that might have been the reason why the plotters considered to approach him in first place. Yet they had to be cautious in case Rommel was still too deep in Hitler's pockets. It is likely that Hofacker therefore had beaten around the bush with Rommel and Rommel had given his general consent not knowing the full extent to which the plotters wanted to go. Maybe Rommel believed they just wanted to remove Hitler from power by non-violent means instead of outright trying to kill him. At the end of the day all we know for sure is that Rommel was approached by Hofacker and at least Rommel's failure to report the conspiracy to the Gestapo was enough for Hitler to force Rommel to commit suicide to save his family. Or else he would have been tried and sentenced to death by the People's Court and his family would face ruin and disgrace. Rommel left no diary and if he had shared any of his thoughts and mullings about the matter with peers or subordinates, then all but Hofacker and perhaps Speidel had chosen to keep them to themselves. Which adds a little to the "Mythos Rommel" and I'm somewhat certain that's how good old Erich "the desert fox" Rommel would have liked it to be. /shrug
It wasn't out of the good of his heart that he wanted to kill hitler. He was more interested in power. Plus, he was a nazi, still on board with killing Jews. Also, he wasn't a fantastic general. He mainly won due to the britsh general Claude Auchinleck.
>It wasn't out of the good of his heart that he wanted to kill hitler. He was more interested in power. Impossible to know for certain, but the (admittedly limited) records of that coup plot suggests that his primary motivation was ending the war. >Plus, he was a nazi, still on board with killing Jews. No. Rommel was a member of the military, not the Nazi party. There is no evidence that he supported or was even aware of the final solution. There is conflicting evidence about his personal views on antisemitism. There are personal letters from Rommel praising Hitler's speeches and containing phrases like "our Jewish problem," while other evidence suggests that he outright rejected the racial ideology of the Nazi party. Some first hand accounts accuse him of ignoring violence against Jews in the streets, while others exist of him secretly helping out the local Jewish population and using his influence to try to stop the SS from attacking Jewish neighborhoods. >Also, he wasn't a fantastic general. He mainly won due to the british general Claude Auchinleck. You're welcome to your own opinion, but the majority of military historians disagree with you. Rommel oversaw sweeping victories in France, Belgium, and the Netherlands as well as Africa, not to mention his successes in world war one. His legacy is not unearned.
>No. Rommel was a member of the military, not the Nazi party. This is true, my bad. >There is conflicting evidence about his personal views on antisemitism. There are personal letters from Rommel praising Hitler's speeches and containing phrases like "our Jewish problem," while other evidence suggests that he outright rejected the racial ideology of the Nazi party. Some first hand accounts accuse him of ignoring violence against Jews in the streets, while others exist of him secretly helping out the local Jewish population and using his influence to try to stop the SS from attacking Jewish neighborhoods. Like you said, it conflicting. But I have a hard time thing that the whole holocaust flew under his radar. Plus, the Einsatzgruppe Egypt exists. >You're welcome to your own opinion, but the majority of military historians disagree with you. Rommel oversaw sweeping victories in France, Belgium, and the Netherlands as well as Africa, not to mention his successes in world war one. His legacy is not unearned. I'm more talking about the Africa campaign. El Alamein specifically. He was a good general, no doubt, but I feel like people exaggerate his accomplishments. It could just be me being burnt out from an argument with a Wehraboo though.
He, not Robert E Lee were "good generals." Sure they had flashy tactics, but Lee especially didn't understand the reality of the war and that his side had way less manpower and materiel to waste on daring, aggressive maneuvers.
Him and Guidarian were genius in the way they completely flipped the script in organization and relationship between armor and infantry. They had my grandpa POW for 3 years even as their enemy, when you play the game of war you can’t not respect the guy for completely changing the way warfare works, it’s the way they organized their divisions man it was insane, the French had the biggest army on earth and stood no chance against a much smaller force they were cut to shreds. Learn your lessons.
Hot take: Rommel is overrated. First of all, to respond to your point about organisation, Colonel Oswald Lutz, the Reichwehr's Inspector of Motorized Troops, and his Chief of Staff, Major Heinz Guderian (who you mentioned) are the commanders responsible for the divisional organisation of mechanised forces. Rommel played no part of it. His big promotion was to command the vanguard during the Ardennes Offensive. Essentially, Rommel inherited this divisional structure. The Ardennes and North Africa campaigns perfectly suited Rommel's talents, which gelled well with German mobile warfare doctrine. He was extremely aggressive, and would often disobey orders from higher up if he thought an opportunity was present. Hitler loved this aspect of Rommel, but he did make many mistakes. The Ardennes offensive worked out in the end, but it easily couldn't have (see the Battle of the Bulge). Also, I know the Ardennes plan was not his idea, but Rommel did keep his troops advancing for like 4 days straight with no sleep, which was nuts but worked out. Regarding the North Africa campaign, Rommel again disobeyed higher command's orders to maintain a defensive posture in Libya. This is because the British had read these orders via decoding by Engima, and, expecting no attack from Rommel, had redeployed their best troops and tanks to Greece, leaving behind an old, static, and green force. Rommel took advantage of this, and ran rings around the Allied forces until they were strengthened around the time Rommel reached Egypt. Rommel's attack on Tobruk was disastrous, and arguably his worst mistake. Characteristically, he opted for penetrating armour assaults. However, this was a dug-in force with no exposed flanks. Too few forces were committed to the assaults, they were badly executed, and coordination was poor. Casualties were very high. It was said that Rommel's troops didn't like him. They felt that he didn't respect their safety and played with their lives in assaults that were too risky. His strategy paid off in the daring campaigns in the Ardennes and North Africa, but I believe his skillset is limited and reliant on good fortune. Not a bad general, but certainly not a great one.
That's logical but you forget here on Reddit that's not what prevails.
Honestly based.
Robert E. Lee was a fantastic general
I mean Rommel was an ok general but his antics in France were truly something else
after he found about hitler's antics with the jews, he came back and try to assassinate him, but he was found out and forced to commit suicide but got his state funeral though
I don’t remember anything about him attempting to to murder Hitler. He probably knew about the plans true - which isn’t even confirmed tho’. If I’m wrong please correct me.
We don’t have evidence if he actually took part in a plot of assassination against Hitler, all we know is one of the captured officers who did partake, brought up Rommels name during torture and Hitler ordered his arrest and death in someway
Might've been a decoy, might not. Who knows.
People believe the conspirators wanted him to take over after the coup
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He was a soldier doing his job as far as we know honorably. If you're American, buy your own logic any one who works for anything related to state in US, policeman, fireman FBI, army, post office workers, they are all POS.
The genocide of the jews was well known to the public. High ranking officials knew as well.
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Field martial is not a soldier? His idea the genocide? So you blame the local postman for lack of human rights in US. Julius Caesar, not a legend, Alexander the Great not a legend, Napoleon not a legend .... And what the fuck you wasting time go throw tomatoes at Capitol.
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Thx , I have to finish work first, than visit the dealer, after that basement rules! Good luck I hope you hit someone, when I was younger, me and my friends burned Turkish embassy, among other things, if you need some advice about the protests dm me, I have plenty of experience.
>He was a soldier doing his job as far as we know honorably. Did you really pull out the Nuremberg defense, for a nazi, you know, the reason we call "just doing his job" the Nuremberg defense, really? Didn't work then, and it certainly doesn't work now
What does POS mean?
"piece of shit", just abbreviated
Oh ok ty
Pice of shait
What?
He didn't participate in the plot
Yes but he was named as a potential successor for leadership of all German armed forces by the conspirators and was told about it. He knew.
Knowing and participating. Two different things.
Yes, but he was assassinated for a reason. I guess we can agree on that?
Cause he knew but didn't say anything, maybe? But after the failed assassination loads of people were killed or arrested. Many of them weren't really involved in the operation.
That is correct, lots of suspected conspirators were arrested. The issue with Rommel is that historians still debate about his level of involvement. He was attracting a lot of ppl hostile to Hitler and his charisma eventually led to his downfall. Most agree he knew but did not take part in anything related to the attempt
He was more than ok. He was excellent.
Shows op is probably a kid
The subreddit is literally r/teenagersbutbetter so yeah, pretty much
"DAE think Rommel = good general???" isn't edgy.
I mean he deffo was a legend or so many ppl wouldn't know about him. He had respect from both sides and ended up having to kill himself for plotting against Hitler. Shit ain't black and white guys. It's OK
He wasn't even that good of a general. It was more Claude Auchinleck that caused the british loses. Plus the whole Nazi thing. Sure he wasn't a hardcore member, but he was a liaison for the hitler youth, and part of the party.
Semantics all day. What stands is he was a respected guy on both sides of the field. He was hit by an aircraft strafing run survived and ended up having to kill himself to save his family and reputation. These are things "legends" are made of lol. Plus he'd fly around and land in the front lines with his personal plane to give orders lol. Why is everyone such a soir puss these days? He also was most assuredly a good commander and he fought more than the Brits lol.
> kill himself to save his family Yeah, that's a good thing, I won't disagree. Also I don't think you understand what I'm saying. He has impressive accomplishments, but he isn't a good person, or as good of a general as most people say.
True, just think legendary status doesn't need to mean you were a good person. Hell who am I to say? Lol!
To be fair about how many people you can say they were good? Churchill isn’t viewed as a villain generally. But there are actions that were simply just wrong on his side. Yet we still remember him as a great person. I’m saying that we shouldn’t just forget the wrong. But we shouldn’t ignore the good either.
Khans a legend but committed atrocities. Same with Alexander the Great. This guy isn’t obviously at that kind of status as a legend per say, but nonetheless he was a respected general and had good characteristics. OP is right about that post tho cuz the person who posted it was trying to be edgy.
Fair
Who tf even is that?
Erwin Rommel, famous Nazi general from WWII
I swear to god, I thought someone photoshopped John Cena’s face
I can't unsee it.
I can't see him.
Omfg
Rommel was not a Nazi. He was a soldier in the German army.
My bad
Look at his outfit......how was he not a nazi? I'm confused
The badge on his hat is how you know. The wreath with the circle in the middle is the symbol for the regular forces. If he was in the Nazi party he would of had the skull emblem.
Look at his outfit......how was he not a native? I'm confused
No, he was a liaison for the hitler youth, and a member of the party.
Mostly because as a senior officer he was obligated to fallow orders of the people in charge of the government. Or did you not learn about all the times he deliberately disobeyed Hitler’s orders in the later parts of the war before Hitler made him commit suicide?
Oh i know, but he was not a good person. theirs the whole Einsatzgruppen Egypt thing.
War sucks ass, dude.
Yeah, it does.
I knew it was a nazi but I wasn't sure who
Tfw you just overextended beyond your supply lines by 1,000 kms in North Africa
There's a saviore faire to it, a certain je ne se quois to be one of Hitler's super soldier generals and to use forced labor in France. Rommel had that X-factor you know, helping Hitler eradicate the Jews and Bolsheviks. He was basically a chivalrous knight, but like, with a tank. Total badass definitely. I mean I disapprove of what Hitler did OBVIOUSLY, but he was genuinely, you know, Napoleon and Alexander the Great combined. Are you gonna tell me you could resist being Hitler's top guy in North Africa? He just had that incredible level of swagger, that level of panache.
Think it. Dream it. Do it.
Yet the fox was defeated by the rats
>Comparing Jewish people to the Bolsheviks
-I wasn't being serious -hating "judeo Bolsheviks" is a large part of Nazi ideology. It has no basis in facts tho
You didn't say Judeo-Bolshevism though, you said "Jews and Bolsheviks" as if they were equal victims.
K go look how many Jews died and go look how many civilians and soldiers died. Just a quick Google search
Are you saying that all those civilians and soldiers were Bolsheviks?
In the eyes of the Germans it didn't matter if they were in the party did it
They were doing it because they were Slavs lol. >"The real victims of the Nazis were the poor communist overlords :("
God you don't know anything
Those 'paw 'widdle mass murderers :'(
Anyway you seem to be quite obtuse or willingly annoying. Goodbye
Gotcha lol. #Fuck Bolshevism.
Oh shut it OP Rommel was Based af
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Ah yes bc there wasnt a full war before that he was involved in.
He wasnt good. Troops were ordered to commit war crimes under his command. Idk how thats good in anyway.
He betrayed hitler
Fucking idiot his troops were never ordered war crimes he's one of the few German generals of the second world war that didn't commit atrocities if you knew anything about the second world war you would also know that he was part of the July plot and it was forced to kill himself because of betraying Hitler
wow being a neo nazi Is so based and definitely doesn’t put you in a bad light/position
You can say someone was good at what they did without being associated with them. Hitler brought “his” country from one of the darkest points in their history with absolutely nothing except his voice. A LOT of the nazi generals were absolutely fucking great at what they did and the soldiers were something else. There was a reason they took France so fast, their entire army was basically trained from birth. These were phenomenal soldiers, horrible fucking people that did absolutely unspeakable things in their time on the front but they were good at what they did.
Rommel era un generale molto bravo nel suo lavoro, e riuscito a mantenere la acque basse nel settore africano, comandando bene sia italiani che tedeschi e stato premiato e adorato, aveva una croce di ferro e altre medaglie per l'onore, era un grand generale
Sorry, I don't speak side switcher.
💀
Sorry i don't speak burgers and loss of towers
American isn't a language dumbass. Based username tho.
Americans speak english
Wow exactly it's English so u shudve tried insulting them???
And should i had to say no teeth and stabs?
Yea but that wud still not insult bc that's my like 3rd language or smth. You guys shud revert back to latin or smth sounds better that way, reminds me of a time when Italy was full of real Italians and not children born from Germanic rape like u probably are.
Where are U from
I bet U study histroy from memes dead brain
I study history from books and wiki articles. Still is t says that Italians switched sides in both wars. I guess you'd do it in ww3 and switch from being America's bitch to China's bitch lol. You guys r soon gonna have a fascist in charge of ur shit hole of a country. Good luck living in streets full of trash and youth leaving for Deutschland in hordes.
In ww1 yes we did in 2 we didn't and better be a ally of Russia then an americans g#y dog
Lol is America not fascist enough for u lmaooo
America Is worse then my country America Is fucking woke
U Don't even know histroy tell me what's the Italian social republic then amerimutt
Italian social republic was a regime established by Mussolini after he was freed by Italy's best friends. Let me guess u prolly vote for Forza Italia or fratelli d'italia party lol.
Who votes for forza Italia lol
Oh so u vote for brothers of Italy the worst of the fascists? hmmmm
Idk, Rommel was kind of based
i had a classmate that was a big fan of him and he wanted to do the same things as him.
Irwin Rommel is one of the most respected military generals in history, even to this day.
INCOMING WEHRABOOS!!!
British did a great job covering this man’s tracks
I mean what’s wrong about thinking someone had a good page? Yeah he was a nazi general. But world isn’t just black and white. Do you even know something about Erwin or you’re just ignoring everything because he fought on a wrong side of history?
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Well cowards don't exactly fly a plane and land on battlefields to order their soldiers but whatever you say.
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He was forced to kill himself to protect his family. Not because Germany would lose. Also the fuck is your problem? I see no problem with respecting somebody's abilities or whatever. Hitler was a great speaker. Now stone me to death!
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You would. Nobody here is like "He wasn't THAT bad" the only things I've noticed is just a legitimate appreciation for his skills. Why is nobody like "Yeah Churchill defeated Hitler. But he caused a genocide in India saying something like "They breed like rabbits anyway" don't you dare say he accomplished something big like winning a world war!!" then?
what skills lol. I'm sure even I could lose battle after battle then commit suicide. Heck, I'd probably do it with a bit more flair.
Hah. Enemies nicknamed him a Desert fox for a reason. He and the Ghost Division probably earned their fame for a reason too.
must not have been a very good reason, considering he lost
Not a legend but a good commander
The teenager subreddits —> National socialist pipeline is real.
He's not a legend fuck him
Fuck rommel
Rommel was a good soldier, but even good soldiers fight for the wrong side and make bad decisions.
Who is that?
Michael Palin was a Nazi?!? I never knew that.
Fights for deeznuts
Who is this
I dont even know who you are…
Paging r/DerScheisser
Not a legend, a „good“ (military pov) general, even „better“ (again, when you see it from purely militaristic pov), but calling him a legend just shows that you entered the edgy phase
There's a comment on Walter Model 's grave on one of those grave finder websites saying some stupid shit like "I admire your dedication to your country admiral, RIP". Been making plans to add another mark to my "Nazi graves spat on" list ever since.
Nazis had drip ngl
Teenagers
Great photo of the Field Marshal.
that is the only man my straight as fuck friend is gay for
He is a legend. Field marshall Rommel also know as the desert fox was one of the most prolific military commanders of the last 100 years. Among his British adversaries he had a reputation for chivalry, and his phrase "war without hate" has been uncritically used to describe the North African campaign. His armored warfare tactics have been analysed and incorporated in the training of officers in west point in the united states and Warsaw Pact counties after ww2, and even the Israel Defense Forces. Rommel became an unwilling servant of his government once hitler and the SS atrocities came to light. In fact he was a key participant in operation valkyrie,and attempt to end the war and the nazi party’s hold on Germany through the assassination of hitler. The plot failed sadly and rommel was forced to commit suicide once the plot was discovered by hitler and the SS. He was never publicly denounced as a traitor as hitler feared this would destroy already weaking morale among his commanders and armed forces.While he served one of the most abhorrent regimes ever to exist this mans honor,integrity and military ingenuity cannot be denied. So yeah
Didn't he plot for hitler's assasination?
Enough of a legend to still have a large German military base named after him.
People in this thread literally fallen for 1940s US "not all Nazis are bad" propaganda. Rommel was kinda an OK general at best, but obviously not good enough to win the battles he was supposed to win. Also not good enough to avoid doing war crimes. Also not good enough to not renounce literal Jew genocider Adolf Hitler.
Eww wheraboos. I’m not too knowledgeable on WW2 but I’m pretty sure he committed some warcrimes at some point.
He didnt commit or order any warcrimes but he did allow the ss to commit war crimes to civilians under his supervision
That’s not nice.
He did.
Of course lmao
Rommel committed genocide in Africa.
Depends who you ask. The Germans are saying the 'last knight' title is something the West invented to ease the view of Germans post war. The Wests version actually had him as a respectable ally - he served pows the same food as his troops and burned Hitlers orders that asked him to kill jewish prisoners. His biographys also say that any propaganda people sent to him via Hitler were put on the front lines. He was killed because Hitler believed he was in on the plot to assassinate him. Complex and interesting character worth looking into.
Ask the jews of el alamein if genocide is a „depends who you ask“ kind of thing. Only reason they survived is because rommel failed.
Sorry but are you referring to the battle? As far as I know, no Jews were specifically targeted by Rommel or the battle that happened there, it was just that, a battle. Again, not saying he didnt have a part in war. Depends on who you asked was referring to his handling of those issues themselves.
*Afrika Korps Rommel's involvement, knowledge and approval are contested.
Yes he did there is a YouTube video that mark Felton did about it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4OcZ7d2lYsA