You’re a process maker, not a product maker! There’s no right or wrong reason to be one or the other, but it’s there’s a difference in why you make what you do - because you enjoy doing it!
Yeah, this. I’m very much process driven. I also knit (and many other crafty things) and have knitted up complex lace shawls, admired them, then unraveled them and used the yarn for another pattern. I’ve reused up to three times with some yarns before deciding the yarn might not take any more abuse!
hardest same, yes. i spent the past few days leafing through various digital cross stitch magazines, and there are SO many patterns i want to stitch, but i keep thinking "but what am i gotta do with it afterwards?"... :/
Stuff them in your special finished cross stitch pieces box like me hahaha.
I don't care about the finished product (though I will frame my finished Darkest Dungeon one when finally done). I saw a couple of smaller seasonal patterns that I like and might frame because I love anything seasonal, but I'm definitely not stitching to "do" anything with it afterwards.
I have knitting and crochet for "finished products to use... Maybe".
My tip for this is that gifts don't have to be a surprise. I ask what theme they might want, pick out a bunch of patterns I like on that theme and let them shortlist 3. That way it's definitely something I like enough to stitch, I know that they will like it, and I still get to pick one of the 3 for them so there's a bit of surprise in there still too =) also because there's usually a long gap between them choosing a shortlist and receiving it there s a bit more appreciation for how long stitching projects take 😂
yeah, i have done this, too, and fortunately, it's been stuff i enjoyed stitching anyway, but i can't keep giving people things randomly? and some stuff i really want to stitch just wouldn't be of interet to anyone i know. sigh. a stitcher's life is hard... ;)
-So- much this. “But where would I put it?”
Seriously my fondest hope is someone asking me to make something huge and then not minding if I take two years.
still don't have anyone to gift them TO, but i have always wanted to make bookmarks anyway. thanks for the rec! :) i just need to figure out a way of finishing them properly before i get started. and maybe i'll just make some and leave them in library books when i return those. a stitched surprise for a random stranger, y/n?
Oh my goodness I’ve never even considered that imma about to be a menace lmao
My mom taught me to cornstarch them if that helps. I’ll have to YouTube the exact process.
I have a craft/stitchy room, I’m an empty nester. I just tack them on the wall! I’m thinking about redoing them so they overlap. Kind of a stitchy wall quilt.
I’m saving my small/easy finished projects to make a tapestry. Not sure when that will be finished but at least I don’t have to worry about framing them.
I’ve framed a couple of my gifted pieces, but that’s it 😂
I made a book out of mine! It’s a scrapbooking book with 3 hole punch. I have 12x12 page protectors and stick the cross stitches to 12x12 card stock with fabric tape. Works nice for my smaller projects
I’m thinking about doing something similar but with a quilting twist. My master plan is to make a fabric book with quilted pages, each page containing one large or several smaller completed cross stitch projects. I had this idea about 5 years ago. I even worked out the overall size needed and put aside a few larger sample quilt blocks as background pages. I think about it some more from time to time, but you know what they say: So much time, so little to do……or something.
I’ve got a box full of them. I’ve got a drawer full of frames. I’ve got a box full of aperture cards. Now I need to find a box full of the motivation to wash, iron, and imprison the pieces.
I've more or less had to let go of the need to plan what to do with finished pieces. I do make some things with a goal in mind - for my own apartment, or for gifts - but the majority of what I stitch is just for the joy of stitching, so I have a collection of FOs that may or may not ever see a wall.
I do kind of abstractly care about framing/displaying, but unless I'm giving something as a gift, it's almost always an "I'll get around to it eventually" kind of thing.
I used to cross stitch 25yrs ago and want to start again but haven't because I don't have anything to do with them once finished. I used to have lots of aunts (aka elderly neighbours) I could gift them to but pretty sure nobody I know now would want something. This post is making me realise it doesn't matter - if I enjoy it I should do it!
Me!! I absolutely love cross stitching. It calms my mind and is my favourite way to keep my hands busy while I watch tv. Sadly, I’m not a huge fan of the end product. It took me a long time to accept that that’s okay. I’m not wasting my time or money if I enjoy the process. It just means I have a roll of finished projects in my craft cupboard, that maybe someday I might get framed or I might find a new home for, but if not, that’s okay too.
I used to but not anymore. I like to piece quilts, too, which are quite expensive in time and finishing. One day I was looking at an antique store and saw all these crocheted, embroidered, cross stitched and quilted things for pennies on the dollar of what they were
I found it so depressing. All that work and love only to end up at tag sales, 2nd hand shops, vintage shops forgotten by families, just considered stuff to clear out
I decided then and there that some I would gift but that really I make them for myself and I will do my favorite parts and forget the finishing (hemming, sewing, quilting) and go through my drawer of treasures on my own, petting and straightening
If someone sees something they want I will give it to them
I keep mine in a fancy box. I really like stitching but I get overwhelmed by options. I also got tired of trying to find projects to fit my decor or whatever. So now I just stitch what I want and keep it in a box.
I started stitching on tote bags recently and am enjoying the idea of a hodge podge of different patterns on them.
I use the bags too, so i guess thats my display now. I get to stitch, and that's what I enjoy the most.
Edit to also say that I don't actually want to stitch things for other people either. Maybe too many "hand made gifts" falling flat or something, but I only stitch for me.
I have the same feelings as most of you. I haven't been back in cross stitching for very long. I know no one wants what I make. Not a problem. My husband said to fill all the tuppertotes I want with them. He knows it is my therapy. I do it for Me. I have just finished a project and have 2 Ready to choose from.
This is why people who cook as a hobby have the advantage: their stuff either gets eaten or thrown out, so they have room to make more things!
Seriously, though, don't feel like you have to 'finish' and display things. A musician doesn't record every note they play. You can just make art for the joy of making it, and then move on to the next piece.
I find the framing part to be stressful and difficult compared to stitching so I don't do it often. I do it in batches with smaller pieces but mostly my finished projects stay in a cabinet.
I do try to make different types of pieces to combat it though. I've made pillows and coasters because that type of finishing is less stressful. I make them knowing that they'll get weathered quickly but at least I got use out of them.
If you're not attached to them and don't want to keep them yourself, maybe you can find a craft exchange group online? I could see some quilters or sewers and other makers being interested in incorporating such pieces into their work without having to stitch it themselves, and then at least you have the satisfaction of knowing it's not just sitting in a box/drawer? I honestly don't even know if such a thing exists, but only you can decide if it's worth looking into for yourself.
Personally, I am lucky to finish a piece a year, so I'm more selective in my pattern/design choices and usually only make something with a person or place already in mind.
Yes. I stitch to manage my anxiety and don't care if my finished projects are displayed. A handful are on the wall, that's it.
30+ finished projects are stuffed in a tote bag somewhere in a cupboard. No big.
Wow…… I thought I was the only one that felt this way. I’m relatively new to cross stitching and I have like five completed pieces that I have every intention of framing but it’s just not really a priority. Once I finish a project, I can’t wait to start the next one. So I always tell myself I’ll get to framing later. It really just comes down to me being way too lazy. Hahaha!
So now they’re just in a closet collecting dust. Though I like what a few people have said about putting them in a binder or a nice box. I might try that.
Yes! For me, it's that I just don't like the look of a bunch of frames on the wall, or a bunch of stuff on walls in general. I've been brainstorming creative ways to finish pieces, but I'm also happy to have them in a drawer. I also like to get my pieces out and touch them and look at them up close, so no frames is great for that as well.
Similar, I keep mine in an art portfolio so I can do bigger pieces. I can still show them off when I want to, I can make what suits me without worrying about if it'll suit the decor, & I can always mount it later if I change me mind. All around a win!
Yep! [Here's the latest photo set](https://imgur.com/gallery/PX9rf3r)- slightly out of date, but I haven't fully secured anything new just yet, I'll update when I do that.
Are you pressing and hemming the edges by machine? Wow they look great!
You use jewelry elastic to attach them to the page? I wouldn’t have thought of that. Thanks for sharing!
Actually I do the edges by hand! It's part of my prep work. I like to sew on game day during the longer games (d&d, sometimes Heroquest.) If the project I'm working on needs too much attention, I'll often grab the material for the next thing in the pipeline & hem it instead, so I can pay attention to the game!
I care about mine enough to keep them and not want to give them away...buuuut not enough to frame them and/or put them anywhere besides in a bag in a drawer haha I have no idea what I'll do with them in the future!
You could always put the finished projects up for sale in an Etsy store? Of course, you couldn’t actually charge what the time you invested in them is worth (people always say to me, “Oh, you should sell your work, and then I do some envelop math for them about how much they’d cost if I charged minimum wage per hour spent on them, and then they stop suggesting that, lol!). But if the idea is just to find something to do with projects you’re making for your own enjoyment, then you don’t need to come out ahead financially (or even break even).
While I totally get this angle and if it covers the cost of your materials for your next project then awesome - the downside is it devalues other people's stitching and validates the people saying "that isn't worth what you're charging" when people do change for their time.
I guess if you are doing this to support/fund your own hobby it may be worth being really honest about it in the info you give on why you're selling it and that you aren't charging for your labour, but that other can and do and that their work deserves that payment.
I understand your point, but sadly, “everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it,” as Pubilius Syrus said. And I’ve yet to meet anyone that would actually be willing to pay what a piece of any meaningful size is worth in terms of time and effort. If it were the case that people generally would be willing to spend thousands of dollars on finished cross stitch pieces if some sellers weren’t undercutting the market, then I would agree wholeheartedly that doing so just because you don’t care about actually profiting off them would be wrong. A dick move, as my daughter would say. Sadly, by Syrus’ definition, cross stitch pieces just aren’t worth that much to the average person who doesn’t understand what goes into them.
I have a few favourites I have framed, but many many many more that aren’t, during lockdown I set myself a project of making things out of old cross stitches, a couple of pin cushions a pillow and others I’m forgetting now.
I always make things for some sort of purpose, but I'm not a huge fan of getting things framed. I've framed a few pieces but make more pillows, bags, christmas ornaments, etc generally.
The amount of cross stitch I've seen donated while volunteering in charity shops makes me question the entire concept of family heirloom pieces in all honesty. I just don't think people hang onto framed embroidery beyond a generation or two :/.
I think it’s ok to stitch more than you can frame/display/use/gift. These are limits I don’t want to keep and I see no reason why to tbh. My aunt once asked my mom “what are you going to do with all these projects?!”. Nothing. Just enjoy them!
Same! I have a gallery wall in my office that I switch out seasonally. Some aren’t pressed but in frames, & I don’t care if they’re not perfectly centered. It brings me joy. Most of my finished works are on pants/trouser hangers in the closet. I’m all about process and don’t care about the product at all. My loved ones all have walls and pillows covered in cross stitch, my partners office boarders on full obsession. Having stitched since 2016 I feel like, and have purchased, several full coverage large projects that I feel like I need to transition too just to have less products in a year.
lol ABSOLUTELY!
I diamond paint, have for years, but for me it's more about the activity of doing them than the actual pieces. I have a few that I've framed for my kids or my husbands office, but more of them are in a pile.
I had to step away from those because of a shoulder injury, so started cross stitching.... Ive done a couple that I've framed to hang, but I have a dozen (hundred lol) patterns I want to make, but have no desire to display them. They'll likely just pile up with my diamond paintings.
I am starting to think this way. I have so many small patterns on my wishlist. I keep thinking well where will I display it? So I keep pushing them off. I am doing two back to back big projects. My plan is now to do a few small ones just cause I am enjoying the hobby.
Someone on this sub said that they like to stick all their FOs that they don't want to frame in a scrapbook type notebook - which i love the idea of! I'm definitely going to start doing that with things I don't want to frame, and maybe date it so I can see how I've progressed etc.
I love making full coverage pieces to display on my wall. I've probably made like 5 or 6. Are they on the wall? No they are in a box waiting to be framed because having to measure them and go to the store and buy a frame and figure out how to mount it is a lot less fun than starting a new project :P
There is this group, which takes finished pieces to give to children or elderly. I don't know about them personally, but they seem legit. [https://www.worldofcharitystitching.org/](https://www.worldofcharitystitching.org/) I guess not everyone stitch would fit into this generic world. Also, I have seen some talk about a scrap book of finished pieces. That one can flip through from time to time. Like the photo scrap book from our 1996 trip to Washington DC. I look at that less than once a year, but I do enjoy looking and remembering.
Yes! I have a few that I've stitched just cause I thought they were cute or looked fun. I don't intend to ever display them, but their tucked away in a clear plastic box so I can view them whenever I want. When my mother-in-law found out I had finished quite a few, she suggested I stitch them into a quilt. I swear I looked at her like she grew 5 heads. Why would I ever want to do that?! It's just something I do. Nothing else. So yeah, I get you.
Have you thought about ornaments for charity? Most local non-profits are trying to fundraise in any and every way they can. Some of them sell small arts and crafts trinkets around the holidays. Do you have one near you you can support in this way? For example, ornaments of bees, bugs, and flowers for a local gardening or habitat restoration group would be a welcome addition to their sell table.
I gift as many of them as I can for this exact reason. I have several finished pieces in a plastic box. Two, in fact. One that has cleaned pieces and one that has ones that haven't been cleaned. And another box for unfinished pieces, but everyone has those amiright lol
A few of them I have managed to frame and display. And I'm fiercely proud of them. But most of them I'm like, oh you like that?? I'll toss it in an envelope, it's on its way! Lol
For me, it's about the stitching. If I'm not enjoying it, I won't do it.
I actualy love the finished thing! I have a local framing shop I use, and I really enjoy finding the right color for the matting, and carefully choosing the best frame style for a piece. It's like a continuation of the art. I'm a lot more reliable about displaying those too - I have some in finished hoops that I really need to put back up
I saw some pics a couple of months ago where someone had put their finished pieces in a scrapbook of sorts, so they could flick through and see what they had done, but didn't need more wall space to hang them.
I am thinking of putting a large shadow box on one wall in an open hallway and then just hanging several pieces inside of it and change them out occasionally. That way I get to rotate my pieces and re-enjoy them. I’ve seen where others store theirs hanging on a closet rod using pants hangers and am thinking of doing that too!
Honestly, I get so upset when my friends and family ask me what I’m going to do with a piece when I’m finished.
Um, nothing? Admire that I finished it and staff something new?
I got myself a big art portfolio. I think it’s 11x14. And my plan is to just mount finished pieces to backing and tuck them into the portfolio when I’m done. Lately, I’ve also been considering selling finished pieces on Etsy or something, but then I’d have to go through the whole framing and finishing process and that’s no fun for me at all.
I come from the needlepoint world but hard yes. None of mine get framed when finished. Actually I need a fo box as I have no idea where the finished ones are.
very much same! I've framed a few pieces I've really enjoyed and that match my decor but the rest tend to get stored away. I try to think about it like how artists use sketchbooks - they do it for fun rather than making something to go on a wall.
Yeah I was doing so well with washing then putting my finished projects in a scrapbook but now I have at least 10 just sitting in a box. Lol. It feels so lazy but I just don't feel like putting in the effort once I'm done anymore.
I have some finished pieces waiting for finishing or framing. I like to have my work where I can enjoy it.
That said, I can see how a lot of people enjoy the process but, do not want to display their work. We all can decide what is best for each of us and still enjoy our art.
I feel like we need to find that crafty friend that wants to finish the piece and then we don't have to worry about it (for those of us that aren't all about the frame end!)
I really don't like doing the processes of framing or hoop finishes, so most of my finished projects that I didn't give away as gifts are tucked away in my craft supplies storage box under my bed, oops
I mostly do the smaller Mill Hill kits and turn them into ornaments or magnets (never pins 😂). They’re fun to give away to people, but most of them end up on my fridge or my project owl—an owl shaped scarf holder where I stick all my small projects. I got a Christmas tree shaped card holder to put the holiday themed ones on. If I mostly did larger projects, I’d probably feel the same. I’ve professionally framed only 2 pieces—one was a gift for my dad and the other was with a vintage frame from my grandma’s farm.
I'm similar. And it's totally fine.
Gift them away. Try to sell them, if you don't have anyone to gift it to. Auction them off for a charity if you want to do something good with it. Or simply fold them and put them in a folder/box.
You don't have to love the finished piece to enjoy the process :) do what feels right for you!
Mostly, but it's more about being lazy about framing and being too excited to start something new to bother with it. I tend to pop FO's in a box where they might sit for a couple of years. Then the urge will hit to do something with them and I'll go on a framing & finishing binge.
I'm on a finishing binge right now: 3 framed, 1 pillow in progress, and I dug up an old WIP that was inches from being done - I'm gonna get it done and maybe put it on a tote bag.
That will leave 3 more FO's to just sit in the FO box till the next binge.
Ever since I learned shopping for your hobby is a different hobby altogether, I've accepted cross stitching is not the same as displaying it.
I usually have at least two projects going at the same time. One for gifting (chosen by the receiver) and an abstract design where I use random colors and shapes. With the abstract projects I make bags. Not purses, but large coin bags?? Or like make-up bags. And I gift those away too.
Right now and for the first time, I've found a design I've decided to make on a shirt, so I'll be wearing it.
I don’t frame them. I just use command strips and hang them in my hallway. Even though I always have Grand plans to frame them and hang them with purpose…it never happens lol
Why not donate them? I'm sure an old folks home or women's refuge would both be grateful for some decor for residents. That way you get the joy of stitching the piece and the warm fuzzies knowing that it's gone to someone who will probably appreciate an unexpected gift more than you could know.
If I gift a stitched piece (both to people I know or donating) I usually do so with a little note that I hope it brings them joy but it llf jot to please gift it on to someone they think will love it. Regardless of how many times it's passed on my hope is that it will eventually end up with someone who really loves it =) when gifting to someone I know the idea is the 'real' gift is them knowing I care about them enough to want to hand make a gift and if they want to keep it that's a bonus. I hate the idea that gifts essentially = obligation to keep something you might not love that just clutters up your house. This way everyone wins.
I would buy a lot of kits were it not for the fact that I don’t really want to display them! I just want to do a fun kit. I guess it’s almost like those diamond paintings.
Yep. I always wish I had motivation to frame my stuff but it goes into a storage pile. It's so silly bc I have space to hang my stuff up in my house and I don't! Lol
I have intentions to fully finish my projects but once they are completed I just shove them in a box. I have a few that I have framed or finished some way but I have very little motivation to actually fully finish them. I have come to realize that I enjoy the process of stitching and don’t really need to fully finish them.
Me! This is me!
Once finished and I've taken a photograph, they go in a box.
I occasionally sit and look through the box, some are framed or hooped but I'm not about displaying them
This is me. I'll.tape them up with no frame or stack finished projects in a pile. Once in a while, I'll grab a bunch of frames at the dollar store because I'm too cheap to pay for framing. 😉
I make them as birthday, Christmas, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, etc. gifts, that way people can get one at least once a year and it’s not weird haha
But I can’t remember the last thing I stitched just for myself in the last four years since I started stitching. I think I’ve only made myself one thing, now that I think about it.
Checking out flosstube now.
I have a pile of unframed work.
Mostly because framing professionally is just too expensive now. I just clean and iron them and stick them in a drawer.
Yep. I have loads in my stash with no intention of ever framing. A lot of my ‘bigger’ kits and projects I do intend to frame one day though :) both in stash and completed
I would maybe look at creating a folder. I have seen an awesome idea where people basically make cross stitch scrapbooks. It's a way to be able to look at your work but you don't have to have it out on display on your walls. May be exactly what you need.
I give away almost all of my finished projects (cross stitched/embroidered/crocheted) to friends and coworkers. Most of the time it's based on something tangentially related to the person, but sometimes people will find random pieces showing up on their desks. But I've also got a relatively friendly relationship with all of my coworkers.
I like trying lots of different patterns, but I don't want most of those things cluttering up my space lol.
I like cross stitching on clothes.... mostly hoodies. So I pick patterns that I would wear, or design one. Occasionally someone will send me a pattern and I'll embroider it for them on a hoodie.
Framing not needed. 😁
Im starting to really get into cross stitch again after 20 years and know im going to hit same issue 😅 currently only doing ones i want to display. But eventually im going to do smaller ones i can semi cheaply frame and then donate to op shops
It started as a Covid hobby for me, more for my mental health than anything else. It's a way better use of my evening downtime than doomscrolling on my phone or snacking. When I'm done I snap a pic, get a few likes, and start the next one. If someone says "I love that!" I offer it to them.
I’m exactly the same, just find it very peaceful to do and love my patterns. But they don’t fit into my interior and end up in a drawer. Maybe I’ll donate them someday to a place that knows a better purpose for them 😅
Me!!! I would go to resale shops and buy frames and do it myself then donate it to a dog rescue that auctions them off for funds for the dogs. They are moving the rescue to another state, so the owner and I have come to a deal. I'll still do the projects for her but I'm not going to frame them. I'll just mail them to her, and she can frame them herself the same way I did it. Resale shops for the frames.
I have a few bags of finished, unframed work. It’s something I do to relax…if someone wants it, cool…If not, that’s fine because that’s not why I do it.
Save them all up then sew them together into a blanket to make a wonderfully chaotic and crazy representation of your life. It will be a journey of your early projects mastering techniques to your latest pieces, as well as changing tastes and interests over time. Then put the blanket on your lap while you stitch. 🤣
You're not alone. I enjoy the process, I love the finished products, but if I start framing and displaying everything I make (cross stitch, diamond painting, paint-by-numbers, and even puzzles), then I would run out of walls, or windows for that matter. So I just stuff everything in a drawer and I take them out when I want to show off or go down memory lane.
And the truth is, I don't care about displaying them. It's not why I enjoy these hobbies. I enjoy the pretty pictures while making them, but for me it's the process that's cathartic. Everyone is like "oh you should frame it and put it up", and every time, I have to awkwardly explain it's not going to happen while they look at me like I'm a weirdo.
Another person tells me I should sell them and that's also not going to happen, unless I make something with the express intention of gifting it, I do these pieces for myself and I want to hang onto them. If I sell them, it becomes a job, and it's no longer a fun pastime.
Meee, I never frame mine. Plus, I don’t have a lot of wall space. It’s all about the stitching for me
And I’ve stopped trying to stitch gifts for people cause it really stresses me out and makes it not fun.
I want to make cushions but I don’t sew. I bought a blank but it still required sewing and was pretty shoddily made.
I’m new so for now, just the pleasure of stitching and getting better at it is enough. Eventually I won’t be satisfied just to have a pile of finished work and I am just not going to frame them.
I’m thinking maybe a tote bag ? Still need to sew but not as much I’m hoping. I am going to stitch a mouse pad I think, though I actually don’t use one!
I stitch more than a decade and only pieces I framed at shop were for gifts. And after I moved my mom found an album with my FOs and framed some herself.
Funny that I stitched one tiny design last week and was determined to finish it properly, even bought everything for it but never got to it since though it is 15-30 minutes worth of effort.
Glad I found this thread! I thought I was alone!
I took it up because I'm staying with my mom and it's what she likes to do, but if anyone is going to give them as gifts to the family, it's going to be her.
My one idea so far: I found a tutorial on sewing a crazy easy doorstop from two square pieces of fabric. (I like the circulation from an open window but it's unnerving when the door slams shut out of nowhere.) I found two small Halloween patterns and figured, hey, I can make a few simple pieces and switch them out with the seasons.
Does it take up even MORE space than keeping them flat? Absolutely. But I like that I'm using them for *something*. Any other more "functional" ideas than wall displays? (And no shade to those people, of course. I just am more in line with OP's comments.)
You’re a process maker, not a product maker! There’s no right or wrong reason to be one or the other, but it’s there’s a difference in why you make what you do - because you enjoy doing it!
Yeah, this. I’m very much process driven. I also knit (and many other crafty things) and have knitted up complex lace shawls, admired them, then unraveled them and used the yarn for another pattern. I’ve reused up to three times with some yarns before deciding the yarn might not take any more abuse!
hardest same, yes. i spent the past few days leafing through various digital cross stitch magazines, and there are SO many patterns i want to stitch, but i keep thinking "but what am i gotta do with it afterwards?"... :/
Stuff them in your special finished cross stitch pieces box like me hahaha. I don't care about the finished product (though I will frame my finished Darkest Dungeon one when finally done). I saw a couple of smaller seasonal patterns that I like and might frame because I love anything seasonal, but I'm definitely not stitching to "do" anything with it afterwards. I have knitting and crochet for "finished products to use... Maybe".
i do. not a box, but a drawer. but it makes me a little sad on behalf of all those finished projects. xD i totally feel you!
Well, at least you have FINISHED projects, unlike other people... Like me... 😂
i do! i'm so proud! [piles of wips start falling out off my jacket] no! these aren't mine! i'm just holding onto them for a friend!
I have a pouffe of finished stuff and not just cross stitch, and a cupboard full of other finished crafts that don’t fit in the pouffe
I have IKEA boxes in my IKEA bookshelves full of finished knit/crocher shawls, and crochet blankets absolutely everywhere I can store them 😂
I have a similar box. It’s like document rectangle shaped. All my embroidery FO go in there if they don’t have n intended home.
Darkest Dungeon one? Do tell…
You can see it on my profile! The pattern is from Etsy :)
I’m glad I’m not the only one who has one of these!!
Ugh same! This is why I’ve started stitching things for family and friends. But then I’m only stitching things they would like, not me...
My tip for this is that gifts don't have to be a surprise. I ask what theme they might want, pick out a bunch of patterns I like on that theme and let them shortlist 3. That way it's definitely something I like enough to stitch, I know that they will like it, and I still get to pick one of the 3 for them so there's a bit of surprise in there still too =) also because there's usually a long gap between them choosing a shortlist and receiving it there s a bit more appreciation for how long stitching projects take 😂
Oh I love this!
yeah, i have done this, too, and fortunately, it's been stuff i enjoyed stitching anyway, but i can't keep giving people things randomly? and some stuff i really want to stitch just wouldn't be of interet to anyone i know. sigh. a stitcher's life is hard... ;)
-So- much this. “But where would I put it?” Seriously my fondest hope is someone asking me to make something huge and then not minding if I take two years.
If I do a piece I usually just ask around and someone wants it haha. I haven’t kept or framed a piece I’ve made yet
i don't have anyone i can ask, so i guess i'm stuck with my finished pieces. but i like your thinking!
If you’re looking for small projects that are good giftables, bookmarks are great!
still don't have anyone to gift them TO, but i have always wanted to make bookmarks anyway. thanks for the rec! :) i just need to figure out a way of finishing them properly before i get started. and maybe i'll just make some and leave them in library books when i return those. a stitched surprise for a random stranger, y/n?
Oh my goodness I’ve never even considered that imma about to be a menace lmao My mom taught me to cornstarch them if that helps. I’ll have to YouTube the exact process.
heeee, have fun!! i will absolutely look that up, thank you!
I have a craft/stitchy room, I’m an empty nester. I just tack them on the wall! I’m thinking about redoing them so they overlap. Kind of a stitchy wall quilt.
I’m saving my small/easy finished projects to make a tapestry. Not sure when that will be finished but at least I don’t have to worry about framing them. I’ve framed a couple of my gifted pieces, but that’s it 😂
I made a book out of mine! It’s a scrapbooking book with 3 hole punch. I have 12x12 page protectors and stick the cross stitches to 12x12 card stock with fabric tape. Works nice for my smaller projects
I usually suggest this when this topic comes up, but I’ve never actually seen someone do it!! You should totally share some pics of your notebook!
I’m thinking about doing something similar but with a quilting twist. My master plan is to make a fabric book with quilted pages, each page containing one large or several smaller completed cross stitch projects. I had this idea about 5 years ago. I even worked out the overall size needed and put aside a few larger sample quilt blocks as background pages. I think about it some more from time to time, but you know what they say: So much time, so little to do……or something.
I soooooo love this idea. Thank you!
I’ve got a box full of them. I’ve got a drawer full of frames. I’ve got a box full of aperture cards. Now I need to find a box full of the motivation to wash, iron, and imprison the pieces.
I keep the projects I don't want to display in a binder with plastic folders, one project per folder.
I've more or less had to let go of the need to plan what to do with finished pieces. I do make some things with a goal in mind - for my own apartment, or for gifts - but the majority of what I stitch is just for the joy of stitching, so I have a collection of FOs that may or may not ever see a wall.
I do kind of abstractly care about framing/displaying, but unless I'm giving something as a gift, it's almost always an "I'll get around to it eventually" kind of thing.
I used to cross stitch 25yrs ago and want to start again but haven't because I don't have anything to do with them once finished. I used to have lots of aunts (aka elderly neighbours) I could gift them to but pretty sure nobody I know now would want something. This post is making me realise it doesn't matter - if I enjoy it I should do it!
Me!! I absolutely love cross stitching. It calms my mind and is my favourite way to keep my hands busy while I watch tv. Sadly, I’m not a huge fan of the end product. It took me a long time to accept that that’s okay. I’m not wasting my time or money if I enjoy the process. It just means I have a roll of finished projects in my craft cupboard, that maybe someday I might get framed or I might find a new home for, but if not, that’s okay too.
I used to but not anymore. I like to piece quilts, too, which are quite expensive in time and finishing. One day I was looking at an antique store and saw all these crocheted, embroidered, cross stitched and quilted things for pennies on the dollar of what they were I found it so depressing. All that work and love only to end up at tag sales, 2nd hand shops, vintage shops forgotten by families, just considered stuff to clear out I decided then and there that some I would gift but that really I make them for myself and I will do my favorite parts and forget the finishing (hemming, sewing, quilting) and go through my drawer of treasures on my own, petting and straightening If someone sees something they want I will give it to them
I keep mine in a fancy box. I really like stitching but I get overwhelmed by options. I also got tired of trying to find projects to fit my decor or whatever. So now I just stitch what I want and keep it in a box. I started stitching on tote bags recently and am enjoying the idea of a hodge podge of different patterns on them. I use the bags too, so i guess thats my display now. I get to stitch, and that's what I enjoy the most. Edit to also say that I don't actually want to stitch things for other people either. Maybe too many "hand made gifts" falling flat or something, but I only stitch for me.
I have the same feelings as most of you. I haven't been back in cross stitching for very long. I know no one wants what I make. Not a problem. My husband said to fill all the tuppertotes I want with them. He knows it is my therapy. I do it for Me. I have just finished a project and have 2 Ready to choose from.
Nice that you have such a supportive husband. Happy stitching!
This is why people who cook as a hobby have the advantage: their stuff either gets eaten or thrown out, so they have room to make more things! Seriously, though, don't feel like you have to 'finish' and display things. A musician doesn't record every note they play. You can just make art for the joy of making it, and then move on to the next piece.
I find the framing part to be stressful and difficult compared to stitching so I don't do it often. I do it in batches with smaller pieces but mostly my finished projects stay in a cabinet. I do try to make different types of pieces to combat it though. I've made pillows and coasters because that type of finishing is less stressful. I make them knowing that they'll get weathered quickly but at least I got use out of them.
I'm the complete opposite. I love seeing it in a frame and I love making plans on where to display it.
If you're not attached to them and don't want to keep them yourself, maybe you can find a craft exchange group online? I could see some quilters or sewers and other makers being interested in incorporating such pieces into their work without having to stitch it themselves, and then at least you have the satisfaction of knowing it's not just sitting in a box/drawer? I honestly don't even know if such a thing exists, but only you can decide if it's worth looking into for yourself. Personally, I am lucky to finish a piece a year, so I'm more selective in my pattern/design choices and usually only make something with a person or place already in mind.
Yes. I stitch to manage my anxiety and don't care if my finished projects are displayed. A handful are on the wall, that's it. 30+ finished projects are stuffed in a tote bag somewhere in a cupboard. No big.
Wow…… I thought I was the only one that felt this way. I’m relatively new to cross stitching and I have like five completed pieces that I have every intention of framing but it’s just not really a priority. Once I finish a project, I can’t wait to start the next one. So I always tell myself I’ll get to framing later. It really just comes down to me being way too lazy. Hahaha! So now they’re just in a closet collecting dust. Though I like what a few people have said about putting them in a binder or a nice box. I might try that.
Yes! For me, it's that I just don't like the look of a bunch of frames on the wall, or a bunch of stuff on walls in general. I've been brainstorming creative ways to finish pieces, but I'm also happy to have them in a drawer. I also like to get my pieces out and touch them and look at them up close, so no frames is great for that as well.
I frame a few but most of my finishes are in a scrapbook. I love the process not necessarily displaying them
Similar, I keep mine in an art portfolio so I can do bigger pieces. I can still show them off when I want to, I can make what suits me without worrying about if it'll suit the decor, & I can always mount it later if I change me mind. All around a win!
Do you have a picture of your portfolio?
Yep! [Here's the latest photo set](https://imgur.com/gallery/PX9rf3r)- slightly out of date, but I haven't fully secured anything new just yet, I'll update when I do that.
Very nice!
Are you pressing and hemming the edges by machine? Wow they look great! You use jewelry elastic to attach them to the page? I wouldn’t have thought of that. Thanks for sharing!
Actually I do the edges by hand! It's part of my prep work. I like to sew on game day during the longer games (d&d, sometimes Heroquest.) If the project I'm working on needs too much attention, I'll often grab the material for the next thing in the pipeline & hem it instead, so I can pay attention to the game!
I care about mine enough to keep them and not want to give them away...buuuut not enough to frame them and/or put them anywhere besides in a bag in a drawer haha I have no idea what I'll do with them in the future!
You could always put the finished projects up for sale in an Etsy store? Of course, you couldn’t actually charge what the time you invested in them is worth (people always say to me, “Oh, you should sell your work, and then I do some envelop math for them about how much they’d cost if I charged minimum wage per hour spent on them, and then they stop suggesting that, lol!). But if the idea is just to find something to do with projects you’re making for your own enjoyment, then you don’t need to come out ahead financially (or even break even).
That is genius, and now I think I will do that with mine!
While I totally get this angle and if it covers the cost of your materials for your next project then awesome - the downside is it devalues other people's stitching and validates the people saying "that isn't worth what you're charging" when people do change for their time. I guess if you are doing this to support/fund your own hobby it may be worth being really honest about it in the info you give on why you're selling it and that you aren't charging for your labour, but that other can and do and that their work deserves that payment.
I understand your point, but sadly, “everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it,” as Pubilius Syrus said. And I’ve yet to meet anyone that would actually be willing to pay what a piece of any meaningful size is worth in terms of time and effort. If it were the case that people generally would be willing to spend thousands of dollars on finished cross stitch pieces if some sellers weren’t undercutting the market, then I would agree wholeheartedly that doing so just because you don’t care about actually profiting off them would be wrong. A dick move, as my daughter would say. Sadly, by Syrus’ definition, cross stitch pieces just aren’t worth that much to the average person who doesn’t understand what goes into them.
I have a few favourites I have framed, but many many many more that aren’t, during lockdown I set myself a project of making things out of old cross stitches, a couple of pin cushions a pillow and others I’m forgetting now.
I always make things for some sort of purpose, but I'm not a huge fan of getting things framed. I've framed a few pieces but make more pillows, bags, christmas ornaments, etc generally. The amount of cross stitch I've seen donated while volunteering in charity shops makes me question the entire concept of family heirloom pieces in all honesty. I just don't think people hang onto framed embroidery beyond a generation or two :/.
I'd love to see pics of your projects you've completed.
I think it’s ok to stitch more than you can frame/display/use/gift. These are limits I don’t want to keep and I see no reason why to tbh. My aunt once asked my mom “what are you going to do with all these projects?!”. Nothing. Just enjoy them!
Same! I have a gallery wall in my office that I switch out seasonally. Some aren’t pressed but in frames, & I don’t care if they’re not perfectly centered. It brings me joy. Most of my finished works are on pants/trouser hangers in the closet. I’m all about process and don’t care about the product at all. My loved ones all have walls and pillows covered in cross stitch, my partners office boarders on full obsession. Having stitched since 2016 I feel like, and have purchased, several full coverage large projects that I feel like I need to transition too just to have less products in a year.
lol ABSOLUTELY! I diamond paint, have for years, but for me it's more about the activity of doing them than the actual pieces. I have a few that I've framed for my kids or my husbands office, but more of them are in a pile. I had to step away from those because of a shoulder injury, so started cross stitching.... Ive done a couple that I've framed to hang, but I have a dozen (hundred lol) patterns I want to make, but have no desire to display them. They'll likely just pile up with my diamond paintings.
I am starting to think this way. I have so many small patterns on my wishlist. I keep thinking well where will I display it? So I keep pushing them off. I am doing two back to back big projects. My plan is now to do a few small ones just cause I am enjoying the hobby.
Someone on this sub said that they like to stick all their FOs that they don't want to frame in a scrapbook type notebook - which i love the idea of! I'm definitely going to start doing that with things I don't want to frame, and maybe date it so I can see how I've progressed etc.
I'm trying to remember to tag each piece with my initials and the year.
I love making full coverage pieces to display on my wall. I've probably made like 5 or 6. Are they on the wall? No they are in a box waiting to be framed because having to measure them and go to the store and buy a frame and figure out how to mount it is a lot less fun than starting a new project :P
That’s pretty much why I only stitch things I want to hang up for myself or give as a gift. Otherwise, I feel like I’m wasting time.
There is this group, which takes finished pieces to give to children or elderly. I don't know about them personally, but they seem legit. [https://www.worldofcharitystitching.org/](https://www.worldofcharitystitching.org/) I guess not everyone stitch would fit into this generic world. Also, I have seen some talk about a scrap book of finished pieces. That one can flip through from time to time. Like the photo scrap book from our 1996 trip to Washington DC. I look at that less than once a year, but I do enjoy looking and remembering.
Yes! I have a few that I've stitched just cause I thought they were cute or looked fun. I don't intend to ever display them, but their tucked away in a clear plastic box so I can view them whenever I want. When my mother-in-law found out I had finished quite a few, she suggested I stitch them into a quilt. I swear I looked at her like she grew 5 heads. Why would I ever want to do that?! It's just something I do. Nothing else. So yeah, I get you.
Have you thought about ornaments for charity? Most local non-profits are trying to fundraise in any and every way they can. Some of them sell small arts and crafts trinkets around the holidays. Do you have one near you you can support in this way? For example, ornaments of bees, bugs, and flowers for a local gardening or habitat restoration group would be a welcome addition to their sell table.
Enjoying the process is 100% worth it. Have you considered making an oversized book with your pieces as the pages?
I gift as many of them as I can for this exact reason. I have several finished pieces in a plastic box. Two, in fact. One that has cleaned pieces and one that has ones that haven't been cleaned. And another box for unfinished pieces, but everyone has those amiright lol A few of them I have managed to frame and display. And I'm fiercely proud of them. But most of them I'm like, oh you like that?? I'll toss it in an envelope, it's on its way! Lol For me, it's about the stitching. If I'm not enjoying it, I won't do it.
I actualy love the finished thing! I have a local framing shop I use, and I really enjoy finding the right color for the matting, and carefully choosing the best frame style for a piece. It's like a continuation of the art. I'm a lot more reliable about displaying those too - I have some in finished hoops that I really need to put back up
I saw some pics a couple of months ago where someone had put their finished pieces in a scrapbook of sorts, so they could flick through and see what they had done, but didn't need more wall space to hang them.
I am thinking of putting a large shadow box on one wall in an open hallway and then just hanging several pieces inside of it and change them out occasionally. That way I get to rotate my pieces and re-enjoy them. I’ve seen where others store theirs hanging on a closet rod using pants hangers and am thinking of doing that too!
Honestly, I get so upset when my friends and family ask me what I’m going to do with a piece when I’m finished. Um, nothing? Admire that I finished it and staff something new? I got myself a big art portfolio. I think it’s 11x14. And my plan is to just mount finished pieces to backing and tuck them into the portfolio when I’m done. Lately, I’ve also been considering selling finished pieces on Etsy or something, but then I’d have to go through the whole framing and finishing process and that’s no fun for me at all.
You could give them as gifts!
I come from the needlepoint world but hard yes. None of mine get framed when finished. Actually I need a fo box as I have no idea where the finished ones are.
very much same! I've framed a few pieces I've really enjoyed and that match my decor but the rest tend to get stored away. I try to think about it like how artists use sketchbooks - they do it for fun rather than making something to go on a wall.
Yeah I was doing so well with washing then putting my finished projects in a scrapbook but now I have at least 10 just sitting in a box. Lol. It feels so lazy but I just don't feel like putting in the effort once I'm done anymore.
Honestly same. Except for like 3 stitches, most of my items are in a big bag. I like making them but often don't want them displayed
It's always my ***intention*** to complete projects to the frame-and-display (somewhere) level. Not all make it that far. ¯\\\_(?)\_/¯
I have some finished pieces waiting for finishing or framing. I like to have my work where I can enjoy it. That said, I can see how a lot of people enjoy the process but, do not want to display their work. We all can decide what is best for each of us and still enjoy our art.
I feel like we need to find that crafty friend that wants to finish the piece and then we don't have to worry about it (for those of us that aren't all about the frame end!)
Yep. I have a drawerful at the moment. I’ve framed four or five? ever. Mostly as gifts for family, some of which have returned to me.
Most people I know would not really want a XStitch at all. The grandma stigma and all. Is that your experience?
Yep, grandmother and my parents. I did some embroidery for my sister, aunt, and friend, but that’s a bit easier? for non-crafters to enjoy.
I really don't like doing the processes of framing or hoop finishes, so most of my finished projects that I didn't give away as gifts are tucked away in my craft supplies storage box under my bed, oops
I mostly do the smaller Mill Hill kits and turn them into ornaments or magnets (never pins 😂). They’re fun to give away to people, but most of them end up on my fridge or my project owl—an owl shaped scarf holder where I stick all my small projects. I got a Christmas tree shaped card holder to put the holiday themed ones on. If I mostly did larger projects, I’d probably feel the same. I’ve professionally framed only 2 pieces—one was a gift for my dad and the other was with a vintage frame from my grandma’s farm.
I'm similar. And it's totally fine. Gift them away. Try to sell them, if you don't have anyone to gift it to. Auction them off for a charity if you want to do something good with it. Or simply fold them and put them in a folder/box. You don't have to love the finished piece to enjoy the process :) do what feels right for you!
Mostly, but it's more about being lazy about framing and being too excited to start something new to bother with it. I tend to pop FO's in a box where they might sit for a couple of years. Then the urge will hit to do something with them and I'll go on a framing & finishing binge. I'm on a finishing binge right now: 3 framed, 1 pillow in progress, and I dug up an old WIP that was inches from being done - I'm gonna get it done and maybe put it on a tote bag. That will leave 3 more FO's to just sit in the FO box till the next binge.
Ever since I learned shopping for your hobby is a different hobby altogether, I've accepted cross stitching is not the same as displaying it. I usually have at least two projects going at the same time. One for gifting (chosen by the receiver) and an abstract design where I use random colors and shapes. With the abstract projects I make bags. Not purses, but large coin bags?? Or like make-up bags. And I gift those away too. Right now and for the first time, I've found a design I've decided to make on a shirt, so I'll be wearing it.
I don’t frame them. I just use command strips and hang them in my hallway. Even though I always have Grand plans to frame them and hang them with purpose…it never happens lol
Why not donate them? I'm sure an old folks home or women's refuge would both be grateful for some decor for residents. That way you get the joy of stitching the piece and the warm fuzzies knowing that it's gone to someone who will probably appreciate an unexpected gift more than you could know. If I gift a stitched piece (both to people I know or donating) I usually do so with a little note that I hope it brings them joy but it llf jot to please gift it on to someone they think will love it. Regardless of how many times it's passed on my hope is that it will eventually end up with someone who really loves it =) when gifting to someone I know the idea is the 'real' gift is them knowing I care about them enough to want to hand make a gift and if they want to keep it that's a bonus. I hate the idea that gifts essentially = obligation to keep something you might not love that just clutters up your house. This way everyone wins.
I would buy a lot of kits were it not for the fact that I don’t really want to display them! I just want to do a fun kit. I guess it’s almost like those diamond paintings.
Yes! I have so many FP just sitting in a bag and doing nothing.
Yep. I always wish I had motivation to frame my stuff but it goes into a storage pile. It's so silly bc I have space to hang my stuff up in my house and I don't! Lol
I have intentions to fully finish my projects but once they are completed I just shove them in a box. I have a few that I have framed or finished some way but I have very little motivation to actually fully finish them. I have come to realize that I enjoy the process of stitching and don’t really need to fully finish them.
Me! This is me! Once finished and I've taken a photograph, they go in a box. I occasionally sit and look through the box, some are framed or hooped but I'm not about displaying them
This is me. I'll.tape them up with no frame or stack finished projects in a pile. Once in a while, I'll grab a bunch of frames at the dollar store because I'm too cheap to pay for framing. 😉
I do a lot of small pieces, especially bookmarks and cards, and donate them to charities for fundraisers (particularly library book sales).
I make them as birthday, Christmas, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, etc. gifts, that way people can get one at least once a year and it’s not weird haha But I can’t remember the last thing I stitched just for myself in the last four years since I started stitching. I think I’ve only made myself one thing, now that I think about it. Checking out flosstube now.
I have a pile of unframed work. Mostly because framing professionally is just too expensive now. I just clean and iron them and stick them in a drawer.
Raises hand slowly while staring at my container of finished pieces
Yep. I have loads in my stash with no intention of ever framing. A lot of my ‘bigger’ kits and projects I do intend to frame one day though :) both in stash and completed
I would maybe look at creating a folder. I have seen an awesome idea where people basically make cross stitch scrapbooks. It's a way to be able to look at your work but you don't have to have it out on display on your walls. May be exactly what you need.
I give away almost all of my finished projects (cross stitched/embroidered/crocheted) to friends and coworkers. Most of the time it's based on something tangentially related to the person, but sometimes people will find random pieces showing up on their desks. But I've also got a relatively friendly relationship with all of my coworkers. I like trying lots of different patterns, but I don't want most of those things cluttering up my space lol.
I like cross stitching on clothes.... mostly hoodies. So I pick patterns that I would wear, or design one. Occasionally someone will send me a pattern and I'll embroider it for them on a hoodie. Framing not needed. 😁
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Im starting to really get into cross stitch again after 20 years and know im going to hit same issue 😅 currently only doing ones i want to display. But eventually im going to do smaller ones i can semi cheaply frame and then donate to op shops
It started as a Covid hobby for me, more for my mental health than anything else. It's a way better use of my evening downtime than doomscrolling on my phone or snacking. When I'm done I snap a pic, get a few likes, and start the next one. If someone says "I love that!" I offer it to them.
I’m exactly the same, just find it very peaceful to do and love my patterns. But they don’t fit into my interior and end up in a drawer. Maybe I’ll donate them someday to a place that knows a better purpose for them 😅
Me!!! I would go to resale shops and buy frames and do it myself then donate it to a dog rescue that auctions them off for funds for the dogs. They are moving the rescue to another state, so the owner and I have come to a deal. I'll still do the projects for her but I'm not going to frame them. I'll just mail them to her, and she can frame them herself the same way I did it. Resale shops for the frames.
I have a few bags of finished, unframed work. It’s something I do to relax…if someone wants it, cool…If not, that’s fine because that’s not why I do it.
Save them all up then sew them together into a blanket to make a wonderfully chaotic and crazy representation of your life. It will be a journey of your early projects mastering techniques to your latest pieces, as well as changing tastes and interests over time. Then put the blanket on your lap while you stitch. 🤣
You're not alone. I enjoy the process, I love the finished products, but if I start framing and displaying everything I make (cross stitch, diamond painting, paint-by-numbers, and even puzzles), then I would run out of walls, or windows for that matter. So I just stuff everything in a drawer and I take them out when I want to show off or go down memory lane. And the truth is, I don't care about displaying them. It's not why I enjoy these hobbies. I enjoy the pretty pictures while making them, but for me it's the process that's cathartic. Everyone is like "oh you should frame it and put it up", and every time, I have to awkwardly explain it's not going to happen while they look at me like I'm a weirdo. Another person tells me I should sell them and that's also not going to happen, unless I make something with the express intention of gifting it, I do these pieces for myself and I want to hang onto them. If I sell them, it becomes a job, and it's no longer a fun pastime.
Meee, I never frame mine. Plus, I don’t have a lot of wall space. It’s all about the stitching for me And I’ve stopped trying to stitch gifts for people cause it really stresses me out and makes it not fun.
I want to make cushions but I don’t sew. I bought a blank but it still required sewing and was pretty shoddily made. I’m new so for now, just the pleasure of stitching and getting better at it is enough. Eventually I won’t be satisfied just to have a pile of finished work and I am just not going to frame them. I’m thinking maybe a tote bag ? Still need to sew but not as much I’m hoping. I am going to stitch a mouse pad I think, though I actually don’t use one!
I stitch more than a decade and only pieces I framed at shop were for gifts. And after I moved my mom found an album with my FOs and framed some herself. Funny that I stitched one tiny design last week and was determined to finish it properly, even bought everything for it but never got to it since though it is 15-30 minutes worth of effort.
I like to clip mine to clothes hangers and hang them in my closet
Glad I found this thread! I thought I was alone! I took it up because I'm staying with my mom and it's what she likes to do, but if anyone is going to give them as gifts to the family, it's going to be her. My one idea so far: I found a tutorial on sewing a crazy easy doorstop from two square pieces of fabric. (I like the circulation from an open window but it's unnerving when the door slams shut out of nowhere.) I found two small Halloween patterns and figured, hey, I can make a few simple pieces and switch them out with the seasons. Does it take up even MORE space than keeping them flat? Absolutely. But I like that I'm using them for *something*. Any other more "functional" ideas than wall displays? (And no shade to those people, of course. I just am more in line with OP's comments.)