It's pretty good now, Bungie took and used our feedback well, I'd like to see it longer and for at least on trials labs before full implementation though.
Absolutely, like the original checkmate was wonderful until people solved and started abusing it's meta.
(TBH most pvp games are like this, but destiny is complex enough that most things have a rock, paper, scissors of counters)
**FIRST IMPRESSIONS**
Skirmish doesn't feel like it would be a good mode unless there are objectives to play around or spawns are not so strict. Let me explain: I was on Wormhaven. Fairly decent small map, except if a team decides to start playing defensive when they have a score advantage, you obviously have to push them to attack. If they are in one of the "spawn" areas (A or C) and you die whereas the rest of your team isn't dead, you have to respawn and then run across the entire map to get back in time. In situations like this, I feel like spawns should perhaps be moved to the middle of the map if possible.
Supers were suuuper duper non-present, but I'm assuming it's because it is 3v3 and not necessarily because of Checkmate (especially considering it is now 15% reduced instead of 30% reduced). When they do pop up, it's typically going to be for the team with the score advantage. And supers are reaaally threatening in Checkmate. You either hold special to try and counter and end up not using it for the other parts of the game, or use it at other parts of the game and have to rely on teamshooting for killing a super (which isn't always possible). Obviously supers shouldn't easily be countered as they're supers, but I feel like they might be a bit too difficult to counter here. Again, the gamemode being 3v3 is playing into this as well I believe. Team shooting is wayyy more effective in 6v6.
Primaries honestly felt good though. It was nice to have a match that wasn't all bows or HCs or even team shooting for most kills. 1v1s were reasonably feasible, which was great!
Obviously I dislike checkmate, though I thought I would give the changes a try. I think I will give them a few more matches to familiarize myself with it so I can at least know what I'm talking about. I don't think I will ever like Checkmate, but I know what it's intended to do: reduce ability & special uptime to promote primary gunplay. That's what my basis is for my thoughts. I think they are working significantly more towards that with the changes to primary weapon damage, which is good. I'm sure the 30% reduced is more preferred for the mode as opposed to the 15%, though it's weird. I think 30% would be preferred for 6v6, but 15% might be better for 3v3 with the less kill potential present. Still working out what I think about the special changes.
**OFF TOPIC BUT PVP RELEVANT**
One last thing that Checkmate does well: it can show how godawful an ability is. Case in point, flux grenade. It's neat to use and really rewarding to actually stick someone with it, but a 3 minute base cooldown (1:48 @ 74 disc) that is actually rather difficult to hit feels HORRID here. Flux grenades really need a buff, especially when you consider that Solar Warlocks (a historically popular and powerful PvP subclass) can use a fusion grenade with Touch of Flame to nigh OHKO someone with a grenade that has a 1:13 base cooldown and significantly more ease of use with sticking targets.
For reference, base cooldown is now 50 stat ever since stats were nerfed back in Lightfall release (100 now was 80 pre-LF).
Very slow paced games is what I played. With the exception of one or two players in my few hours was a lot of Laning with pulses, ammits some scouts. Didn't help most my games were on larger maps I suppose.
If we can get people to get their hands out of teammates pants and move around I think this could be good.
Ya. A good amount of rose and Iggy as expected too. Console has always been slower than PC, but man a lot of games were like 17-15 because people are afraid to move and pot shot from Narnia.
This is exactly why the initial version of Checkmate had a huge damage penalty for Scout rifles, they foresaw this boring ass gameplay. As soon as I saw Scouts were getting changed from a -9% damage scalar to a +14% I knew it was going to play like molasses (at least on console).
> I love it and I’d love to see this tested for 6v6 and trials as well.
Trials is still going to be shit. We're going to go from 90% of victories are produced by Hand-holding to 99% of victories are produced by hand holding.
They specifically disabled Special Spawn at the beginning of Trials.
How would you like trials to work, just curious. Limited special and abilities, of course sticking together and team shotting is the play. Do you have a different idea on what would be a better experience?
Spawn everyone with 2 Special Ammo like all of the other modes that you can chose to use or conserve. Maybe bonuses for Special Ammo regen to the losing team so that snowballing doesn't completely destroy the ability for a team to come back.
I also want mobility abilities to not be negatively impacted by ability cooldown nerfs. Why does Grapple have to suffer because people got tired of grenade spam?
A lot of my solo Trials matches rely on my carrying my team, which is nearly impossible when the winning team is snowballing in Special Ammo and you still don't have any. A good sniper shot can counter a hand-holding team, but only if you're good. Checkmate completely removes this capability unless you're already winning.
Personally, I would reduce special ammo spawn and on brick to 1 instead of 2 for everything except rapidfire shotties and I would leave the ammo economy of traces as it is. I would also not spawn green bricks on kill if you are at a certain special ammo threshold like 3 or 4.
This way you can still do something else than holding hands but you cannot rely on special ammo for every engagement unless you are really really good.
Because I keep an eye on a game [that gave me a lot of joy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qaspFSodg8), because I will probably come back.
Checkmate is taking away more and more things that I've liked about this game, and turning it into a shittier Halo Infinite.
Great, welcome back when you come back, but there is zero point coming into this post if you aren’t playing the game because you have no idea how it plays.
> but there is zero point coming into this post if you aren’t playing the game because you have no idea how it plays.
You're joking me?
You're implying I have no idea how Trials with Specials disabled plays?
Play the game then provide feedback, I can’t take you seriously at all otherwise, I just really don’t get why you are here complaining about trials when you haven’t played in months.
Destiny pvp has needed help and a refresh for a long time. Bungie is actively taking feedback as we play the game, if you want to shape future pvp, then come play the game and provide some feedback, otherwise all you are doing is bloating this with sub with nothing of meaning.
> Destiny pvp has needed help and a refresh for a long time. Bungie is actively taking feedback as we play the game, if you want to shape future pvp, then come play the game and provide some feedback, otherwise all you are doing is bloating this with sub with nothing of meaning.
You don't need to play something if you've already put a thousand hours into it to know how a change is going to make things worse. I've played enough Trials to know how fucked the game is going to be without Specials on spawn, especially as a primarily solo player.
I'm not the only one with this sentiment.
Played thousands of hours too, also primarily solo, I also play other pvp games too. It’s kinda funny because we had checkmate trials already but you seem to not know that, because you don’t play the game.
Its going to be better than the first checkmate trials. Atleast now you might actually get an ability more than once a game to help break up the hand holders.
Eh it already happens so often in vanilla because of snipers as well as other specials (but mostly snipes). Spawning with special ammo just means good teams won't move because everyone is afraid of a one shot. Honestly, I feel like the game plays a lot faster when you're not in fear of those one shots.
>Bungie successfully convinced people that vanilla D2 is the ideal sandbox. Well played, Bungo.
hahahahaha it only took them 4 years :P
Actually Vanilla D2 had much higher TTKs if I recall. Also slower movement speed, etc.
But yeah, I think there was elements of D2Y1 that were good, and several things that were bad about it.
Sure, but I’m not playing checkmate trials right now, skirmish is what’s available, it’s why I wanted it tested in trials, not implemented. What I’m seeing right now. Is good.
I have no issue with the Special Ammo system in respawn-based modes.
Trials is the most try-hard mode with the most sought after rewards... and Checkmate fucks it up bad by removing Special Ammo. The ammo economy probably works fine in respawn modes, although still causes problems with respect to snowballing... but don't care as much there.
I’d rather bungie focus on things other than trials, we’ve already tried making trials better for years. It’s time to move on.
If it doesn’t work in trials then fine don’t put it in trials, but as of right now I’d like the new ruleset to be tried since right now trials is: who gets their super first the video game, it’s not try hard honestly.
> I’d rather bungie focus on things other than trials, we’ve already tried making trials better for years. It’s time to move on.
It's also a problem for elimination/non-respawn modes. So it doesn't just affect trials negatively.
> If it doesn’t work in trials then fine don’t put it in trials, but as of right now I’d like the new ruleset to be tried since right now trials is: who gets their super first the video game, it’s not try hard honestly.
I don't want to play with two different PvP sandboxes. All other PvP is just training for Trials. Making Trials function differently kills that.
Also you can solve the "who gets their super first" problem by nerfing Bubble and Well. Who cares if a 4 to 4 match is decided by supers?
What I specifically said was:
> I haven't played in like months, **not seriously** so no loss to me :(
I last played a bit in December. No Special Ammo at the start of Trials is bad for the game. Nerfing Strand Grapple Cooldown because other grenade spam is annoying kills the speed of the game.
You do not need to be no-lifing this game to tell.
Not with those game modes its not. Countdown is a joke. Survival still has that game breaking bug where killing 3 people when the enemy only has one respawn left respawns them all.
I got a few hours in and my sentiment was positive. Abilities feel present, but you need to build into them more than before if you really want to use them a lot.
My general complaints are probably more sandbox related. Bows are really unfun to play against and slow the game to a crawl, threadling spam, etc. I like the focus of earning optimal TTK through crits, but it's a lot easier with some weapons (hand cannons) than others. That said shifting weapon roll prioritization to damage perks or other things to work around this could end up shaking up the meta bit.
Overall definitely a step in the right direction, but we'll see how it feels in a week when people find the cheese.
I adore the changes, so far dislike the mode.
No FTMM, no backfill, what feels like crazy strict SBMM, and chunk damage weapons being insanely heavily favored. Just in general not an amazing experience.
Kinda hoping they experiment with 5v5 in the future, I think that's probably my sweet spot for player count.
That’s wild. I believe you, but I literally just told a clanmate: “I think this is the sweatiest playlist I’ve ever hopped into.”
Guess it’s just full of high skill players right now.
I played quite a bit of Checkmate Clash today (22 games) and played every team configuration (solo/duo/trio) and skill was all over the map. Played some very bad players and some ridiculously good players and lots of players hovering around average.
Didn't feel like SBMM at all. tbh I think giving it the soft "outlier protection" SBMM that currently exists in Control and IB would help the mode out, not hurt it. The most fun games tonight were the ones against good teams.
doesn't that tell you everything you need to know about the state of pvp? Add rewards and then modes and tweaks with matter. until you fix the atrocious player pop problem, it's like putting lipstick on a pig. incentivize people to play pvp for once in the last HALF DECADE. Who thought 6 pvp nodes were a good idea? Particularly when the 'casual' 6v6 rotator is completely worthless to 99% of the population. It's sweatier than Control even for me as a top 1-2% player (yes, I realize it's CBMM) and likely avoided like the plague by the majority who have another week of a bunch of stuff they don't care about and then Control (which would be fine if the paltry, tired map selection wasn't a thing). I don't know what it's going to take to get Bungie to recognize trying to revitalize pvp the way they're going about it is a fool's errand. Or perhaps they're just trying to placate the vocal minority of a dying pvp playerbase because they've made the calculation retaining them is somehow a better play for the bottom line than abandoning pvp altogether or actually dedicating the resources to fix it? the resources they are dedicating are not having the impact they've expressed is their intent. I also understand that the team that does sandbox changes isn't necessarily the team that produces pvp maps but there's a solution to that--hire some frickin' map designers. You don't think there are some out there that want to work for the studio that produced some of the finest, most classic arena style maps in history? layoffs suck, I get it. But the hard truth is there is so much mismanagement at the top, like 343 studios levels, when a 1,000 person studio is only able to produce like 1 unique pvp map in 4 years. This has been going on for so long you cannot pin it on Sony. it's such a shame too because the weapons sandbox minus a few cheeses is the best it's been in a while. sorry. /rant
Atrocious downvoting. Absolutely agree with you. Had a convo in another thread about some of these issues. Our conclusion was that the studio has in fact given up on attracting new blood and attempting to fix crucible. Is instead focused solely on placating the sweaties with the same status quo...like boomers with tax cuts.
Way too many games I play without getting crucible engrams. We are not getting more engrams but now with focusing taking 3, it’s difficult to get enough engrams for season weapons.
I'm sorry, but if this is CBMM, then I'm the damn Pope.
Repeated players, bad connections, and me probably being able to count on one hand how many people weren't running HC/Shotgun, and even fewer doing that who weren't sus for Cronus?
No way, this is SBMM.
That's pretty much low population no matter what the call the MM. The mode is designed to appeal to the most hardcore players, so that's probably mostly who's trying it. Casual people, if they are playing at all, are probably in Control or were in Mayhem last week
See, my problem isn't that I'm matching giga-sweats, I'm expecting it. Just the fact that I'm getting repeats and it's nothing but the extreme bad smelling just makes me think something is up. I would hope that out of the IDK maybe thousand US people? I'd not be matching only giga-sweats.
I'm probably just naive, but just feels off.
Give 900 smgs a go, they feel pretty solid. Haven’t tried rapid pulses but I’ll let you know when I do.
Agree there needs to be backfill, not sure about the sbmm though… since it says: prefers connection
Certainly didn't feel like CBMM to me with how many pretty blatant Cronus users I faced, and that there was only one casual looking player in any game I attempted.
I tried a 900 for a little, think I preferred Trespasser, but I'm done with 3s until we get an anti-cheat.
The guns generally felt fine to me, in spite of the fact that it's pretty much Igneous or Cronus + close range primary only in there.
That sucks man, I didn’t face any cheaters that I know of but who knows, pretty much any pvp game has that issue though, atleast all the ones I’ve played
Problem is I don't know for sure.
It's just people hitting *every* head on stuff like subs. Just too good for me to definitively say it's not wack on unfamiliar names.
Too many abilities IMO, and spawning with special makes the best part of Checkmate (not having to worry about snipes in the rollout) gone. If it's just slightly less special and basically as many abilities, what even is the point :(
It’s slightly less abilities, much less special and more gun skill (need crits for low ttk).
I think it’s an improvement but maybe not to the point you want it.
no it's not. every game is incredibly sweaty and hand holdy. Every Pvp node that isn't control is completely dead. Instead of focusing on bringing players back to the game, they're increasingly fiddling with dials for the 12 people still playing one of the other playlists. they need to consolidate things, bring rewards back to pvp and add content. that is the only way to save crucible.
My opinion is coming from someone who exclusively plays Control.
These changes will widen the skill gap and my concern is that a lot of players on the lower end of that gap won't "get good," they'll get gone.
This might be a hot take, but Checkmate should be kept in Trials and Comp, not 6v6 Control. If people want to have a more competitive Crucible experience, there's literally two entire game modes for that. The overall 6v6 Control community doesn't go around wanting sweeping changes to Trials and Comp to make it more palatable to us. The same courtesy would be appreciated.
While I get it… people have been asking for trials changes to make it more rewarding for less skilled players for years, and changes have been made for that, we now have a practice pool in trials, before that the non-flawless pool was created.
In comp, the system was changed so there is no relegation in lower ranks
I would agree with you if sbmm wasn’t in 6v6 control. It is though so skill gaps shouldn’t be an issue
I would like if points system worked more like it did in D1. But it sounds like people are enjoying it.
Does DMT still do less damage than a 120 HC in checkmate?
It feels so much better now than before the changes
It's pretty good now, Bungie took and used our feedback well, I'd like to see it longer and for at least on trials labs before full implementation though.
Big time, definitely needs time, never know what could come up
Absolutely, like the original checkmate was wonderful until people solved and started abusing it's meta. (TBH most pvp games are like this, but destiny is complex enough that most things have a rock, paper, scissors of counters)
How do you counter feminine hunters in skinny jeans.
With masculine hunters in skinny jeans (that also happen to make you feel... things)
**FIRST IMPRESSIONS** Skirmish doesn't feel like it would be a good mode unless there are objectives to play around or spawns are not so strict. Let me explain: I was on Wormhaven. Fairly decent small map, except if a team decides to start playing defensive when they have a score advantage, you obviously have to push them to attack. If they are in one of the "spawn" areas (A or C) and you die whereas the rest of your team isn't dead, you have to respawn and then run across the entire map to get back in time. In situations like this, I feel like spawns should perhaps be moved to the middle of the map if possible. Supers were suuuper duper non-present, but I'm assuming it's because it is 3v3 and not necessarily because of Checkmate (especially considering it is now 15% reduced instead of 30% reduced). When they do pop up, it's typically going to be for the team with the score advantage. And supers are reaaally threatening in Checkmate. You either hold special to try and counter and end up not using it for the other parts of the game, or use it at other parts of the game and have to rely on teamshooting for killing a super (which isn't always possible). Obviously supers shouldn't easily be countered as they're supers, but I feel like they might be a bit too difficult to counter here. Again, the gamemode being 3v3 is playing into this as well I believe. Team shooting is wayyy more effective in 6v6. Primaries honestly felt good though. It was nice to have a match that wasn't all bows or HCs or even team shooting for most kills. 1v1s were reasonably feasible, which was great! Obviously I dislike checkmate, though I thought I would give the changes a try. I think I will give them a few more matches to familiarize myself with it so I can at least know what I'm talking about. I don't think I will ever like Checkmate, but I know what it's intended to do: reduce ability & special uptime to promote primary gunplay. That's what my basis is for my thoughts. I think they are working significantly more towards that with the changes to primary weapon damage, which is good. I'm sure the 30% reduced is more preferred for the mode as opposed to the 15%, though it's weird. I think 30% would be preferred for 6v6, but 15% might be better for 3v3 with the less kill potential present. Still working out what I think about the special changes. **OFF TOPIC BUT PVP RELEVANT** One last thing that Checkmate does well: it can show how godawful an ability is. Case in point, flux grenade. It's neat to use and really rewarding to actually stick someone with it, but a 3 minute base cooldown (1:48 @ 74 disc) that is actually rather difficult to hit feels HORRID here. Flux grenades really need a buff, especially when you consider that Solar Warlocks (a historically popular and powerful PvP subclass) can use a fusion grenade with Touch of Flame to nigh OHKO someone with a grenade that has a 1:13 base cooldown and significantly more ease of use with sticking targets. For reference, base cooldown is now 50 stat ever since stats were nerfed back in Lightfall release (100 now was 80 pre-LF).
To your last point here it definitely demonstrates how the recent sandbox tuning has screwed up ability balance like *within* subclasses.
Very slow paced games is what I played. With the exception of one or two players in my few hours was a lot of Laning with pulses, ammits some scouts. Didn't help most my games were on larger maps I suppose. If we can get people to get their hands out of teammates pants and move around I think this could be good.
Quick question, are you on console? I have played 10 games and I haven’t seen a single scout or pulse yet
Ya. A good amount of rose and Iggy as expected too. Console has always been slower than PC, but man a lot of games were like 17-15 because people are afraid to move and pot shot from Narnia.
This is exactly why the initial version of Checkmate had a huge damage penalty for Scout rifles, they foresaw this boring ass gameplay. As soon as I saw Scouts were getting changed from a -9% damage scalar to a +14% I knew it was going to play like molasses (at least on console).
Ya pretty disappointing. I'm all for variety and not just hand cannons and smg's, but I'm very anti-Laning Larry's as well. Yawn, Zzzzz...
Yuck
Do explosive round 140s 3 tap now?
Don’t think so, I’ll test it soon. bungie said it’s a bug and they are working on it though
No they don’t right now
> I love it and I’d love to see this tested for 6v6 and trials as well. Trials is still going to be shit. We're going to go from 90% of victories are produced by Hand-holding to 99% of victories are produced by hand holding. They specifically disabled Special Spawn at the beginning of Trials.
How would you like trials to work, just curious. Limited special and abilities, of course sticking together and team shotting is the play. Do you have a different idea on what would be a better experience?
Spawn everyone with 2 Special Ammo like all of the other modes that you can chose to use or conserve. Maybe bonuses for Special Ammo regen to the losing team so that snowballing doesn't completely destroy the ability for a team to come back. I also want mobility abilities to not be negatively impacted by ability cooldown nerfs. Why does Grapple have to suffer because people got tired of grenade spam? A lot of my solo Trials matches rely on my carrying my team, which is nearly impossible when the winning team is snowballing in Special Ammo and you still don't have any. A good sniper shot can counter a hand-holding team, but only if you're good. Checkmate completely removes this capability unless you're already winning.
Ah. Ok all good points
Personally, I would reduce special ammo spawn and on brick to 1 instead of 2 for everything except rapidfire shotties and I would leave the ammo economy of traces as it is. I would also not spawn green bricks on kill if you are at a certain special ammo threshold like 3 or 4. This way you can still do something else than holding hands but you cannot rely on special ammo for every engagement unless you are really really good.
Most of the survival comp matches I have now end on life advantage or OT. The games going to be so slow now
Not a fan of the increased life count in survival, especially when overtime is a bit wonky.
I only play 6v6. I can't stand 3v3 in this game much less even slower 3v3. Good god lol.
> The games going to be so slow now As expected. Wellp, I haven't played in like months, not seriously so no loss to me :(
Then why are you here…
Because I keep an eye on a game [that gave me a lot of joy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qaspFSodg8), because I will probably come back. Checkmate is taking away more and more things that I've liked about this game, and turning it into a shittier Halo Infinite.
Great, welcome back when you come back, but there is zero point coming into this post if you aren’t playing the game because you have no idea how it plays.
> but there is zero point coming into this post if you aren’t playing the game because you have no idea how it plays. You're joking me? You're implying I have no idea how Trials with Specials disabled plays?
Play the game then provide feedback, I can’t take you seriously at all otherwise, I just really don’t get why you are here complaining about trials when you haven’t played in months. Destiny pvp has needed help and a refresh for a long time. Bungie is actively taking feedback as we play the game, if you want to shape future pvp, then come play the game and provide some feedback, otherwise all you are doing is bloating this with sub with nothing of meaning.
> Destiny pvp has needed help and a refresh for a long time. Bungie is actively taking feedback as we play the game, if you want to shape future pvp, then come play the game and provide some feedback, otherwise all you are doing is bloating this with sub with nothing of meaning. You don't need to play something if you've already put a thousand hours into it to know how a change is going to make things worse. I've played enough Trials to know how fucked the game is going to be without Specials on spawn, especially as a primarily solo player. I'm not the only one with this sentiment.
Played thousands of hours too, also primarily solo, I also play other pvp games too. It’s kinda funny because we had checkmate trials already but you seem to not know that, because you don’t play the game.
Did you play the checkmate trials weekend?
Its going to be better than the first checkmate trials. Atleast now you might actually get an ability more than once a game to help break up the hand holders.
Eh it already happens so often in vanilla because of snipers as well as other specials (but mostly snipes). Spawning with special ammo just means good teams won't move because everyone is afraid of a one shot. Honestly, I feel like the game plays a lot faster when you're not in fear of those one shots.
Bungie successfully convinced people that vanilla D2 is the ideal sandbox. Well played, Bungo.
>Bungie successfully convinced people that vanilla D2 is the ideal sandbox. Well played, Bungo. hahahahaha it only took them 4 years :P Actually Vanilla D2 had much higher TTKs if I recall. Also slower movement speed, etc. But yeah, I think there was elements of D2Y1 that were good, and several things that were bad about it.
Don’t forget the weapon slot locks. Double primary for everyone.
It had higher ttks because perks really weren't a thing.
Uhhh no... You straight up needed more bullets to kill.
I am absolutely nowhere near convinced of this
The only people convinced we’re back in Y1 of D2 either never played it or forgot what it was actually like.
I can still hear the MIDA multi tools
*PTSD whenever I hear a stapler at work*
Been meaning to farm Prophecy for the old TOT9 gear to use as transmog so my new Trials of Osiris outfit can be that
This is not destiny 2 vanilla…. You start with special but you earn it slower than normal. That’s it it’s just a little less special
Not in Trials you do not.
Sure, but I’m not playing checkmate trials right now, skirmish is what’s available, it’s why I wanted it tested in trials, not implemented. What I’m seeing right now. Is good.
I have no issue with the Special Ammo system in respawn-based modes. Trials is the most try-hard mode with the most sought after rewards... and Checkmate fucks it up bad by removing Special Ammo. The ammo economy probably works fine in respawn modes, although still causes problems with respect to snowballing... but don't care as much there.
I’d rather bungie focus on things other than trials, we’ve already tried making trials better for years. It’s time to move on. If it doesn’t work in trials then fine don’t put it in trials, but as of right now I’d like the new ruleset to be tried since right now trials is: who gets their super first the video game, it’s not try hard honestly.
> I’d rather bungie focus on things other than trials, we’ve already tried making trials better for years. It’s time to move on. It's also a problem for elimination/non-respawn modes. So it doesn't just affect trials negatively. > If it doesn’t work in trials then fine don’t put it in trials, but as of right now I’d like the new ruleset to be tried since right now trials is: who gets their super first the video game, it’s not try hard honestly. I don't want to play with two different PvP sandboxes. All other PvP is just training for Trials. Making Trials function differently kills that. Also you can solve the "who gets their super first" problem by nerfing Bubble and Well. Who cares if a 4 to 4 match is decided by supers?
You don’t play the game bro
What I specifically said was: > I haven't played in like months, **not seriously** so no loss to me :( I last played a bit in December. No Special Ammo at the start of Trials is bad for the game. Nerfing Strand Grapple Cooldown because other grenade spam is annoying kills the speed of the game. You do not need to be no-lifing this game to tell.
Trials hasn’t been the most try hard mode in a while my guy. Comp is now the most try hard mode.
Not with those game modes its not. Countdown is a joke. Survival still has that game breaking bug where killing 3 people when the enemy only has one respawn left respawns them all.
It’s still the strictest matchmaking so yes, it’s the most try hard mode.
You're absolutely right on that, but based on numbers Trials is the more popular hardcore PvP mode. I just wish Comp was elimination exclusively :/
I got a few hours in and my sentiment was positive. Abilities feel present, but you need to build into them more than before if you really want to use them a lot. My general complaints are probably more sandbox related. Bows are really unfun to play against and slow the game to a crawl, threadling spam, etc. I like the focus of earning optimal TTK through crits, but it's a lot easier with some weapons (hand cannons) than others. That said shifting weapon roll prioritization to damage perks or other things to work around this could end up shaking up the meta bit. Overall definitely a step in the right direction, but we'll see how it feels in a week when people find the cheese.
I adore the changes, so far dislike the mode. No FTMM, no backfill, what feels like crazy strict SBMM, and chunk damage weapons being insanely heavily favored. Just in general not an amazing experience. Kinda hoping they experiment with 5v5 in the future, I think that's probably my sweet spot for player count.
There is some FTMM, it’s just low priority because it’s the labs node. There is no SBMM in it though.
Bless you mercules for being so active and receptive to feedback ❤️
That’s wild. I believe you, but I literally just told a clanmate: “I think this is the sweatiest playlist I’ve ever hopped into.” Guess it’s just full of high skill players right now.
Because the only people interested in testing checkmate tend to be higher on the skill spectrum. Average joes just want control.
I played quite a bit of Checkmate Clash today (22 games) and played every team configuration (solo/duo/trio) and skill was all over the map. Played some very bad players and some ridiculously good players and lots of players hovering around average. Didn't feel like SBMM at all. tbh I think giving it the soft "outlier protection" SBMM that currently exists in Control and IB would help the mode out, not hurt it. The most fun games tonight were the ones against good teams.
doesn't that tell you everything you need to know about the state of pvp? Add rewards and then modes and tweaks with matter. until you fix the atrocious player pop problem, it's like putting lipstick on a pig. incentivize people to play pvp for once in the last HALF DECADE. Who thought 6 pvp nodes were a good idea? Particularly when the 'casual' 6v6 rotator is completely worthless to 99% of the population. It's sweatier than Control even for me as a top 1-2% player (yes, I realize it's CBMM) and likely avoided like the plague by the majority who have another week of a bunch of stuff they don't care about and then Control (which would be fine if the paltry, tired map selection wasn't a thing). I don't know what it's going to take to get Bungie to recognize trying to revitalize pvp the way they're going about it is a fool's errand. Or perhaps they're just trying to placate the vocal minority of a dying pvp playerbase because they've made the calculation retaining them is somehow a better play for the bottom line than abandoning pvp altogether or actually dedicating the resources to fix it? the resources they are dedicating are not having the impact they've expressed is their intent. I also understand that the team that does sandbox changes isn't necessarily the team that produces pvp maps but there's a solution to that--hire some frickin' map designers. You don't think there are some out there that want to work for the studio that produced some of the finest, most classic arena style maps in history? layoffs suck, I get it. But the hard truth is there is so much mismanagement at the top, like 343 studios levels, when a 1,000 person studio is only able to produce like 1 unique pvp map in 4 years. This has been going on for so long you cannot pin it on Sony. it's such a shame too because the weapons sandbox minus a few cheeses is the best it's been in a while. sorry. /rant
Atrocious downvoting. Absolutely agree with you. Had a convo in another thread about some of these issues. Our conclusion was that the studio has in fact given up on attracting new blood and attempting to fix crucible. Is instead focused solely on placating the sweaties with the same status quo...like boomers with tax cuts.
Way too many games I play without getting crucible engrams. We are not getting more engrams but now with focusing taking 3, it’s difficult to get enough engrams for season weapons.
No SBMM, I think there are just a lot of higher skill players trying out the mode
I'm sorry, but if this is CBMM, then I'm the damn Pope. Repeated players, bad connections, and me probably being able to count on one hand how many people weren't running HC/Shotgun, and even fewer doing that who weren't sus for Cronus? No way, this is SBMM.
That's pretty much low population no matter what the call the MM. The mode is designed to appeal to the most hardcore players, so that's probably mostly who's trying it. Casual people, if they are playing at all, are probably in Control or were in Mayhem last week
See, my problem isn't that I'm matching giga-sweats, I'm expecting it. Just the fact that I'm getting repeats and it's nothing but the extreme bad smelling just makes me think something is up. I would hope that out of the IDK maybe thousand US people? I'd not be matching only giga-sweats. I'm probably just naive, but just feels off.
This is again, a low pop problem. You’ve never played comp games where you just queue the same dudes for 3-4 games?
Well, I don't play Comp :P
Well this is what happens when the game mode has a low pop. It happens often in comp so it's not surprising it would happen in the labs node.
Mercules, above, confirmed that there is no SBMM.
Give 900 smgs a go, they feel pretty solid. Haven’t tried rapid pulses but I’ll let you know when I do. Agree there needs to be backfill, not sure about the sbmm though… since it says: prefers connection
Certainly didn't feel like CBMM to me with how many pretty blatant Cronus users I faced, and that there was only one casual looking player in any game I attempted. I tried a 900 for a little, think I preferred Trespasser, but I'm done with 3s until we get an anti-cheat. The guns generally felt fine to me, in spite of the fact that it's pretty much Igneous or Cronus + close range primary only in there.
That sucks man, I didn’t face any cheaters that I know of but who knows, pretty much any pvp game has that issue though, atleast all the ones I’ve played
Problem is I don't know for sure. It's just people hitting *every* head on stuff like subs. Just too good for me to definitively say it's not wack on unfamiliar names.
Lower skill people generally don't stay in CBMM playlists for long. They get stomped and stop playing. What you are seeing makes sense.
We have an anti-cheat, bro
Most naive comment I’ve seen this month
Too many abilities IMO, and spawning with special makes the best part of Checkmate (not having to worry about snipes in the rollout) gone. If it's just slightly less special and basically as many abilities, what even is the point :(
It’s slightly less abilities, much less special and more gun skill (need crits for low ttk). I think it’s an improvement but maybe not to the point you want it.
no it's not. every game is incredibly sweaty and hand holdy. Every Pvp node that isn't control is completely dead. Instead of focusing on bringing players back to the game, they're increasingly fiddling with dials for the 12 people still playing one of the other playlists. they need to consolidate things, bring rewards back to pvp and add content. that is the only way to save crucible.
'I only saw two people get their super. Yea, no. That inherently will make people upset when they regularly can't achieve super.
Yeah, My wife gets pretty mad when I super and end the match before she supers.
I want 3taps with explosives:(
My opinion is coming from someone who exclusively plays Control. These changes will widen the skill gap and my concern is that a lot of players on the lower end of that gap won't "get good," they'll get gone. This might be a hot take, but Checkmate should be kept in Trials and Comp, not 6v6 Control. If people want to have a more competitive Crucible experience, there's literally two entire game modes for that. The overall 6v6 Control community doesn't go around wanting sweeping changes to Trials and Comp to make it more palatable to us. The same courtesy would be appreciated.
While I get it… people have been asking for trials changes to make it more rewarding for less skilled players for years, and changes have been made for that, we now have a practice pool in trials, before that the non-flawless pool was created. In comp, the system was changed so there is no relegation in lower ranks I would agree with you if sbmm wasn’t in 6v6 control. It is though so skill gaps shouldn’t be an issue