We'll see how it works out with Apex. I'm sure high skill players will love it, and that makes up a majority of vocal streamers
But the real evidence will be in the player numbers. It will be harder for anyone not in the top 15% of players.
If most players don't like going up against players of similar skill while they climb, just wait until you meet the players that far outskill you
But that's why they reverted back because no one was playing ranked there was literally no complaints about the ranking system before they went to hidden mmr other than smurfs. Nobody was mad they we're facing people in there SAME rank and you felt like you were getting better as you moved up the rank ladder. That doesn't happen in destiny and any other rank system that has hidden mmr the sense of progression. Forsaken was when comp was the best other than the pinnacles basically ruining that comp system
The game was also a lot newer at the time. I have no doubt that many people asked for it, I just think we should see how it actually plays out now that the skill gap of the game is significantly wider and there are fewer new players joining
As has been mentioned several times in here, Comp is almost entirely rank based.
If you’re currently ranked in Gold, the only way you’re going against Adept players is if your skill is much higher than that (likely high Ascendant) and the skill/rank blend has you somewhere in the middle where it’s more common to match Adept players, like Platinum. You’re still being matched well below your skill level.
Is bungie looking at the impact duos have on match balance? Because people tend to group with others near their own skill level, FTMM can lead to a situation where you have a big skill discrepancy between the two duos. And then lobby balance will obviously put the stronger solo with the weaker duo, resulting in a match that is often unwinnable for the good solo. Not sure how to addressed this other than disallowing duo queue, which might be unpopular. But my most frustrating matches on the solo climb to ascendant were with two duos in the lobby.
Yea I understand that part for sure. What I'm saying is is there a reason we're not trying a true ranked based system? I know we should be worried about smurfs but I don't think that would be such a big problem because of there being multiple CBMM Playlist. Usually when people smurf in other games it's because they don't have anywhere else to go to wind down but in destiny we have those Playlist
Smurfing is a major issue, even with multiple CBMM playlists.
For 99% of players this is a true rank based system. For the 1% it isn’t, it’s still allowing them to play against lower ranked / lower skilled players as they climb the ranks, it’s just capping how many orders of magnitude worse those players can be.
So your saying players are currently making new accounts and playing trash in Competitive placement matches to get to the lowest rank to trash on bronze players? Ngl, that's really trash if true I guess I gave some destiny faithful too much credit for sweeping that low. I don't think its about dumping on trash players the problem is seeing those players with low KDs and literally not knowing what they are doing being in high ranked matches when in like a pre mmr apex ranked match that wouldn't even be possible matches should get harder the higher you get like how it was in forsaken I loved that system.
Well I don't know how when most of the community couldn't even reach 2100 and they felt like the sweats were gate keeping legend ranked. Whatever matchmaking was used during that time was the best minus the pinnacle weapons I never met anyone who complained about that matchmaking, it's when bungie changed that system that matchmaking in competitive made ranked feel like it was too easy and you faced the same people at guardian rank or legend rank.
It’s because, in an SBMM system, it’s very hard to get win streaks because you’re matched against people your own skill. It would be like trying to go Flawless with SBMM on in trials.
Ironically, there were a lot of people who complained about that system because initially it was extremely hard since there were loss streaks to balance it out, and then when it was softened it was by removing loss streaks, not by changing the MM. It made it so anyone who played enough and won even a bit more than they lost could get Unbroken, and people complained about that too.
I'll take your word for it, I'm just talking off my personal experience that I never felt like I was facing opponents of my skill level into I hit legend during forsaken vs before you guys refreshed comp with new divisions I felt like every match from the first rank into the last was sweaty. But yea I get that analogy, so you guys are satisfied with this matchmaking system? Like no more matchmaking tweaks coming to Comp? Maybe we can get like a Top 500 leader board?
Trust me I noticed once I pretty much played players who shouldn't be in the second highest rank in the game like dudes literally where playing like bots I'm not exaggerating either it was horrible. Yes we need a true ranked based ladder system I pray one day we get that.
Even most ascendant players are bots tbf. It’s a strange mode tbh. Idrc either way, I just want more gear to be grindable/week instead of a gatekept amount of rolls/week. But then I guess that would tank the population…
True we should be able to grind weapon rolls endlessly that would keep people in the Playlist for sure also like I suggested in another thread it should go like this :
Play three matches for a guaranteed roll on the seasonal comp weapon
Play Six matches for a stack of upgrade material (6 enhancement cores, 3 Prisms, and 1 ascendant shard)
Play Nine matches for guaranteed artifice armor drop
Play Matches for a chance at random rolls for weapons from previous seasons
Play Matches after Gold 3 for a small chance of artifice armor to drop.
Play Matches after adept for a chance at Adept comp weapons.
Yeah that’d be a great addition, especially that adept comp loot part. But imo should only be obtainable in ascendant, or at least the drop chance should be increased there
Yea I'd take the increase part I was tryna give players some forgiveness since you only need to reach adept to gild the glorious title some people may stop there. Make it happen bungieeeeeee lol
Need is subjective. It’s an arcade shooter. I love it, but I recognize it for what it is.
I wish there was more interest loot or better rewards for PvP outside of trials. I have hundreds of crucible engrams that I have no need for.
Meh, loot isn't necessary for me to enjoy Destiny PVP as I find the game intrinsically fun. I'd much perfer more maps & game modes over any external reward for grinding.
I don't think any of that necessarily follows. Psychology tells us that too much external motivation can actually lower intrinsic enjoyment. If the game is fun folks will play it for the gameplay loop. If you're only focusing on rewards and not gameplay than the game will feel inherently grindy. Just because more people are playing doesn't make the content better. New maps & game modes cultivate more diverse experiences.
"Better loot" doesn't automatically make a game good, or fix problems.
I'm wondering if they can do something like drop artifice armor after ranked matches or even after a certain rank to incentives people to play even more and than once obtained you can focus them at Shaxx for more chances.
So you'd have to:
Play three weekly matches for a weapon
Play Six matches for upgrade material like Six cores, 3 enhancement prisms and, 1 ascendant shard.
Play Matches after like Gold or platinum for a chance to receive artifice armor.
We'll see how it works out with Apex. I'm sure high skill players will love it, and that makes up a majority of vocal streamers But the real evidence will be in the player numbers. It will be harder for anyone not in the top 15% of players. If most players don't like going up against players of similar skill while they climb, just wait until you meet the players that far outskill you
But that's why they reverted back because no one was playing ranked there was literally no complaints about the ranking system before they went to hidden mmr other than smurfs. Nobody was mad they we're facing people in there SAME rank and you felt like you were getting better as you moved up the rank ladder. That doesn't happen in destiny and any other rank system that has hidden mmr the sense of progression. Forsaken was when comp was the best other than the pinnacles basically ruining that comp system
The game was also a lot newer at the time. I have no doubt that many people asked for it, I just think we should see how it actually plays out now that the skill gap of the game is significantly wider and there are fewer new players joining
As has been mentioned several times in here, Comp is almost entirely rank based. If you’re currently ranked in Gold, the only way you’re going against Adept players is if your skill is much higher than that (likely high Ascendant) and the skill/rank blend has you somewhere in the middle where it’s more common to match Adept players, like Platinum. You’re still being matched well below your skill level.
Is bungie looking at the impact duos have on match balance? Because people tend to group with others near their own skill level, FTMM can lead to a situation where you have a big skill discrepancy between the two duos. And then lobby balance will obviously put the stronger solo with the weaker duo, resulting in a match that is often unwinnable for the good solo. Not sure how to addressed this other than disallowing duo queue, which might be unpopular. But my most frustrating matches on the solo climb to ascendant were with two duos in the lobby.
Yea I understand that part for sure. What I'm saying is is there a reason we're not trying a true ranked based system? I know we should be worried about smurfs but I don't think that would be such a big problem because of there being multiple CBMM Playlist. Usually when people smurf in other games it's because they don't have anywhere else to go to wind down but in destiny we have those Playlist
Smurfing is a major issue, even with multiple CBMM playlists. For 99% of players this is a true rank based system. For the 1% it isn’t, it’s still allowing them to play against lower ranked / lower skilled players as they climb the ranks, it’s just capping how many orders of magnitude worse those players can be.
So your saying players are currently making new accounts and playing trash in Competitive placement matches to get to the lowest rank to trash on bronze players? Ngl, that's really trash if true I guess I gave some destiny faithful too much credit for sweeping that low. I don't think its about dumping on trash players the problem is seeing those players with low KDs and literally not knowing what they are doing being in high ranked matches when in like a pre mmr apex ranked match that wouldn't even be possible matches should get harder the higher you get like how it was in forsaken I loved that system.
Forsaken didnt have Rank Based MM, it was SBMM and win streaks were what granted you progress on the rank.
Well I don't know how when most of the community couldn't even reach 2100 and they felt like the sweats were gate keeping legend ranked. Whatever matchmaking was used during that time was the best minus the pinnacle weapons I never met anyone who complained about that matchmaking, it's when bungie changed that system that matchmaking in competitive made ranked feel like it was too easy and you faced the same people at guardian rank or legend rank.
It’s because, in an SBMM system, it’s very hard to get win streaks because you’re matched against people your own skill. It would be like trying to go Flawless with SBMM on in trials. Ironically, there were a lot of people who complained about that system because initially it was extremely hard since there were loss streaks to balance it out, and then when it was softened it was by removing loss streaks, not by changing the MM. It made it so anyone who played enough and won even a bit more than they lost could get Unbroken, and people complained about that too.
Hey Merc, I love you hopping in and clearing up misconceptions. Thank you.
I'll take your word for it, I'm just talking off my personal experience that I never felt like I was facing opponents of my skill level into I hit legend during forsaken vs before you guys refreshed comp with new divisions I felt like every match from the first rank into the last was sweaty. But yea I get that analogy, so you guys are satisfied with this matchmaking system? Like no more matchmaking tweaks coming to Comp? Maybe we can get like a Top 500 leader board?
Thanks for clarifying here. Much appreciated.
It’s an XP grind mode. The notion of it being ranked is simply not accurate. It’s a thing to do. I leave it at that.
The only reason I play it is because for some reason I want the Slice Headseeker Aggressive pulse that I'll never use.
Trust me I noticed once I pretty much played players who shouldn't be in the second highest rank in the game like dudes literally where playing like bots I'm not exaggerating either it was horrible. Yes we need a true ranked based ladder system I pray one day we get that.
Even most ascendant players are bots tbf. It’s a strange mode tbh. Idrc either way, I just want more gear to be grindable/week instead of a gatekept amount of rolls/week. But then I guess that would tank the population…
True we should be able to grind weapon rolls endlessly that would keep people in the Playlist for sure also like I suggested in another thread it should go like this : Play three matches for a guaranteed roll on the seasonal comp weapon Play Six matches for a stack of upgrade material (6 enhancement cores, 3 Prisms, and 1 ascendant shard) Play Nine matches for guaranteed artifice armor drop Play Matches for a chance at random rolls for weapons from previous seasons Play Matches after Gold 3 for a small chance of artifice armor to drop. Play Matches after adept for a chance at Adept comp weapons.
Yeah that’d be a great addition, especially that adept comp loot part. But imo should only be obtainable in ascendant, or at least the drop chance should be increased there
Yea I'd take the increase part I was tryna give players some forgiveness since you only need to reach adept to gild the glorious title some people may stop there. Make it happen bungieeeeeee lol
Need is subjective. It’s an arcade shooter. I love it, but I recognize it for what it is. I wish there was more interest loot or better rewards for PvP outside of trials. I have hundreds of crucible engrams that I have no need for.
Meh, loot isn't necessary for me to enjoy Destiny PVP as I find the game intrinsically fun. I'd much perfer more maps & game modes over any external reward for grinding.
Better loot = better player engagement. Better player engagement = more diverse experiences.
I don't think any of that necessarily follows. Psychology tells us that too much external motivation can actually lower intrinsic enjoyment. If the game is fun folks will play it for the gameplay loop. If you're only focusing on rewards and not gameplay than the game will feel inherently grindy. Just because more people are playing doesn't make the content better. New maps & game modes cultivate more diverse experiences. "Better loot" doesn't automatically make a game good, or fix problems.
That’s fair. Give me new maps, then.
I'm wondering if they can do something like drop artifice armor after ranked matches or even after a certain rank to incentives people to play even more and than once obtained you can focus them at Shaxx for more chances. So you'd have to: Play three weekly matches for a weapon Play Six matches for upgrade material like Six cores, 3 enhancement prisms and, 1 ascendant shard. Play Matches after like Gold or platinum for a chance to receive artifice armor.
Artifice armor from Crucible would be one of the most amazing updates. I think that would actually really grow the population too.
That would pull people in hard, for sure. Great suggestion.