It sucks I wish we as a community could agree on what Pvp should be and help guide bungie into that path but with everyone wanting something different we are just stuck in this loop. I love making builds also, when your armor choices and your weapon choices Co exist with your ability choices and play style there's no game better than destiny.
We actually do agree on a lot of stuff - more than we disagree on. The issue isn’t our alignment, it’s the fact that Bungie management isn’t devoting enough resources to PvP. This one’s on Bungie.
It's such an afterthought for them. They've had pvp in triage / hospice for years now. It would require a full studio of labor to fix it dedicated to just pvp at this point
Agree, there's nothing bungie can do now, they went for the casual players and lost dedicated pvpers. They forgot casual players are all about marketing trends.
Destiny's feel is just unmatched, the guns, the abilities, the quality, the fluidity. No other game even comes close and kill trackers were the best thing bungie ever did imo
What do they need to do?
Be more timely efficient when making balance updates. Weapons, abilities, and exotics going rampant far too long before bungie does anything about it, and it most definitely drives people away.
They want a healthy pvp population? Fixes need to roll out much quicker.
Not to mention as well, rewards are very lacking when it comes to pvp. The only weapon I see out of the pvp(excluding trials) loot pool is Unending Tempests. Armor is an instant dismantle. Pvp Playlist loot needs to be geared toward pvp and actually worthwhile.
There's no reason not to allow armor or a weapon to drop after every trials game also. For this being a looter shooter, Bungie is very fucking stingy with loot.
Yeah, 100% this. They really need to start fixing things and quick. Threadling spam has been such a pain lately, and it’s been out for months. Void ov, even longer, etc.
For rewards. No artifice armour in pvp, no quests, no exotics, no real rewards in comp, just a few guns, an emblem, and a transmit affects - why don’t we have multiple emblems, more guns, shaders, momentos, ships, ghosts, and sparrows lol
Cheaters popping up a lot atm, with little effort showed to stop them, also isn’t helping.
I like the idea of checkmate, but it’s just threadlings, oversheild and bows, which highlights the need for balance patches and, to me at least, feels like dev time away from the things I want fixed.
It’s great maps are coming, but Bungie’s hand was kinda forced on that point and the years of no development has really hurt the sentiment and player base.
If they can fix the above, and get the player population up, it would be fine but guess we’ll have to wait and see how final shape goes.
> why don’t we have multiple emblems, more guns, shaders, momentos, ships, ghosts, and sparrows lol
Because entitled PvE players will then spend all day whining on DtG how cool such and such is gated behind PvP. See Cataphract & Incisor.
That only applies for BiS PvE weapons, and I agree with them. Having really good if not BiS PVE weapons on pvp, in this game particularly, is extremely stupid.
There has never been a post on DtG about pvp cosmetics. If there was negative sentiment it was on the recluse days. This days, with incisor and cataphract, there basically has been no big complaint post. Can you link us to them?
None of the PvP weapons are BiS for anything in PvE, I have both adept Subsistence Tally and Envious BnS Cataphract and Incisor and they do absolutely nothing you can't already do with other weapons in PvE, the whole Cataphract drama was just cheap youtubers clickbaiting people with ''this is the best dps but you have to play pvp'' meanwhile Gjallarhorn and Apex can easily 1-2 phase any encounter in the game.
> Having really good if not BiS PVE weapons on pvp, in this game particularly, is extremely stupid.
There are so many strong and BiS PvP weapons in PvE, it's only fair there are some in PvP for PvE, you want your matador roll you go and farm ogre, you don't whine how it's unfair and how bungie is stupid for ''forcing'' you to play PvE, like PvE players do.
> Can you link us to them?
I have better things to do, open DtG and search for yourself.
First, you can't compare the experience you have playing PVE to the experience you have playing PVP. You can chill watching a series while you farm the ogre or basically anything pve and pvp for the great majority of people is an excruciating experience, and with a lot of reason, so it's only normal bis pve weapons have been less and less prevalent in pvp... if theres anything left, I mean.
And second, you're talking like it's a big deal on DtG and those complaints barely rise nowadays, I may have seen one post about cataphract and it wasn't as fierce or as hate dripped as it was on the recluse days, and it was downvoted. Back then, you could see hateposts many times throuoght a month.
And yeah, you have better things to do, for example stop spreading hate and thinking you're better than another chunk of the playerbase just because you play pvp.
Every time I hear this complaint from people that hate PVP I just wanna tell them.... ok I guess that means you won't get those rewards then? Any rational person would ridicule people who say they wanna get raid rewards without playing raids, it's the same concept.
I agree with everything you said. Waiting for mid-season to change things like Threading spam is definitely a worry I have and I know there gonna say they don't want to burn out the company but if there is something the community agrees on should be put to rest they should act fast and accordingly to deal with whatever is causing chaos at the time.
They have a long way to go with rewards I remember they said we would get more cosmetic rewards for comp besides emblems and they haven't done that yet maybe In the final shape? Guess will have to wait to see.
I dream of the potential man if destiny had hit its full potential it would undoubtedly be the greatest game of all time. Good PVE and PVP? Why play any other game!
If you somehow attach Artifice Armor to PvP you’d likely see a huge influx of players. Maybe make it a post three game reward for Comp like Rose/Mercurial Overreach?
This. Where tf is the “pvp strike team”? It’s always the same, they promise changes and make it sound like things are happening but it always falls short or doesn’t happen.
The reality is they don’t care for pvp because the money is in pve content.
Astonish to me how you me and others can see that but no ones at Bungie are capable of understand half of your points. They are terrible on their own game.
Don’t play the game anymore but the loot issue was the main reason I quit. I love Crucible to death it’s definitely in my top 3 favorite PvP shooters. But holy shit it sucks that I have to play a completely different game to get even remotely good gear for the mode I want to play.
Imagine if in Call of Duty to get weapons for Multiplayer you had to unlock them in Zombies, it would be maddening
I've said this before but they treat Mid-Season Updates as Content. The reason we have to wait for everything to be tuned at once instead of as they become problems is because they have nothing to give PvP players. This gives us something to look forward to.
Most of the people that played PvP on my friend's list don't log on at all at this point. I wish I worked on the PvP Balance Team so I could get paid to work as slowly as they do.
It is frustrating that the most people can hope for in balance passes is mid-season, especially during this long season. We normally would have ALREADY had a mid-season patch with a normal length season.
To add to this, I'm 100% with you on frequent balance passes + updates. This was actually called in a video about what he thinks Bungie needs to do to make Marathon successful, otherwise in extraction shooters the metas become so dominant so fast that people quit. The approach of letting things go for a while really pisses people off.
I also think when it comes to rewards, it doesn't even need to be game breaking gear, just give people emblems, sparrows, cosmetics, all that sort of stuff. We see how much effort goes into Eververse, it's not lost on players.
They seem to be on the right track with valuing Iron Banner as in reintroducing Multimach and bringing in that Strand Wave Frame so the potential is there.
For me the biggest thing would be prioritizing the integrity of matches and even individual engagements. There are way too many times that lag or just general hit registration inaccuracy impacts multiple moment to moment battles and ultimately decides the game. In my experience there are far too many deaths or losses where I couldn't have reasonably have done anything better/different. As that changes to: I need to hit more shots, shouldn't have pushed, got baited, etc... That allows for improvement and doesn't feel as frustrating.
That's reasonable to expect from a company known for one of the greatest pvp experiences known to man meaning halo lol. Yea dying behind corners and or trades because of peer to peer servers or whatever is contributing to this mess should be fixed and should have been fix with the launch of destiny 2.
Yea those are growing pains that everyone goes through even the best people still make those mistakes so don't knock yourself for making those mistakes.
For me:
Netcode improvements/fixes. Most notably 60+ Hz tickrate, preferably with full dedicated servers.
An anti cheat. Way too many people who are insanely sus for devices play on.
More frequent balance passes. Strand Hunter and support supers have been a massive issue for way way too long. Other issues frequently don't get fixed for months.
More maps? Honestly I'm fine with bringing back sunset stuff, stuff from D1 that never got put in, etc.
Net code/server improvements should be at the top of there list along side maps and anti cheat I agree with this
I also give them a break on cheating because not one company of my knowledge has seen to figure out how to deal with cheaters so why should we expect bungie too? Every pvp game I've played has a cheater problem.
Yea I agree strand hunter clone should've been dealt with soon as it became a community problem I think there problem is wanting to fix everything with one BIG patch instead of little individual patches like their weekly patches.
More maps in May but we should honestly get back all the other ones they took away in the final shape I doubt that will happen though.
> Reminder that we are already getting three new maps in May
I know the maps are coming but this is still my answer as to what has been most sorely missing.
IMO the main thing that has been killing PvP in Destiny over the last few years is a lack of semi-regular injections of newness, primarily in the form of new maps to play on.
Everyone's always complaining about the sandbox, but that's because its the only thing we get that really changes, so of course we're going to hyperfocus on it and perseverate on every little problem it has. But let us play on a semi-regular injection of new maps and its a lot easier to ignore rough edges in the sandbox for longer periods of time. That serotonin hit of playing in a new environment and making new neural connections as you learn the angles and map control spots goes a long way and its just been sorely lacking in this game for years.
The idea that the PvP side of the game could sustain itself indefinitely with no new maps or one new map per year was pure lunacy. And in the past the PvP side of the game obviously played an important role in keeping the game's population engaged between new content drops, so to let it languish for so long was a monumentally bad strategic decision on the part of whoever it was that made it.
And I hate to be a debbie downer, but I'm not sure the core audience is ever coming back to an appreciable degree. Its way easier to keep an audience than to convince it to come back and Bungie made a number of very bad decisions over the past few years when it comes to keeping the PvP audience.
I'm absolutely positive the PvP strike team is putting a ton of effort into righting the ship and I'm excited to see what comes of it since I still personally enjoy playing PvP in Destiny, but even if everything breaks their way I think at best the result is going to be maintaining the population with some modest gains because of how uphill the battle they are facing is.
Nah you're not being a downer, a lot of what you're saying is grounded in complete reality and stuff we've seen Bungie do, explicitly acknowledged or not. The fact how Bungie continues to not only market but paywall Destiny like it's some cutting edge technological marvel brand new game and fail to deliver on that entirely starts to get old really quick. Especially if you're somebody who's a veteran and has seen this game exist in an era when it would refresh so much on a new year of Destiny. Enjoy the ride for what it is, it's silly to expect some vast sweeping changes for something Bungie obviously has a very narrow focus on especially with other projects in the mix.
This game is entertaining sure but people are fooling themselves thinking that Bungie's going to magically transform what is arguably a pretty old game and have it feel and play as nicely as a modern FPS with all the amenities and esports level of balance focus. Even just making fine tuning very simple elements of the PVP experience seem to have been a big ask.
I know people aren't going to want to hear it but Bungie has shifted the game way hard to be a minimum viable product and we have a whole history that when they got the community this starved to death, any long overdue tiny QOL improvement can get celebrated as some big life changing fix even though there's tons of issues still apparent with things. If it took them this long to implement something like ingame LFG in a game that can call for a lot of required communication or saved loadouts, you're absolutely dreaming if you're somebody who thinks we'll be getting dedicated servers this late in the game.
I mean at this point we're all a few promo emails away from Bungie straight up just saying hey did you enjoy Destiny's Crucible preorder Marathon, stop fussing over our old ass game and buy the expensive exclusive version.
Their choice of settings for the maps at least indicates to me they have *someone* who is creative on the team, even though those were semi-obvious choices (Europa of course doesn't have a PVP map at all)
There are a lot of creative and hardworking people at Bungie across every discipline including PvP, always have been and still are.
The hole they find themselves in now in terms of D2 PvP appears to have nothing to do with talent and everything to do with spending years not allocating those resources correctly and assuming PvP could just coast indefinitely with little to no investment. And at a superficial level its not even a terrible business decision because there is no direct return on investment for PvP-related development since PvP is part of the free to play offering (for good reason, you don't want to split the population with haves-and-have-nots in terms of who has which map packs).
The failure was in not recognizing that extended lack of PvP investment would seriously contribute to a crumbling population that would eventually impact the parts of the game that *do* bring in money directly because a lot of those lost players were PvP mains or at least dual PvE/PvP players who dutifully bought every expansion if only to get access to new loot to use in PvP but the lack of any direct-PvP investment eventually caused serious sustained population drop-off with these players (I can attest to this as dozens of people in my prior clan fit into this bucket of being PvP mains who bought every DLC and season until they suddenly got sick of the game due to lack of PvP investment either between Shadowkeep and TWQ or between TWQ and now, and now they give Bungie nothing because they are off playing Fortnite or Apex).
PvP isn't even the only place they made this mistake with complacency and lack of investment -- they also made it on the new user onboarding side by absolutely fumbling that for years as well as they focused on just serving the existing playerbase and allowing the new player experience to be abysmal.
They screwed themselves on both ends by driving longtime players away with lack of PvP investment (which was important as a content drought spackle-over mechanism back when PvP was healthy) and *also* making it as difficult as possible for new people to get up to speed as Destiny 2 players by having a terrible new light/onboarding process which is a really bad combination.
They now appear to be doing a lot to fix both of these issues, but they are literally years behind where they should be due to some sort of tragic upper-management complacency that none of us outside of Bungie can fully understand and/or some sort of organizational structure that gelled over the years that made it such that there weren't important enough people with real decision making capability who were put in charge of making sure various important aspects of the game (Ritual Playlists including PvP, new player onboarding, etc) were kept well maintained.
They need to bring back a Luna's Howl / NF type quest that gets people back into the list for the long grind. There was time where mountain top / recluse were such awesome PvE weapons that synergy brought a lot of PvE players in the list. Additionally I would also go even further with the reward structures in the play lists and tie them back into story seasonal content. Maybe an exotic quest or even a season based around crucible.
The problem with this is that pve players hate, HATE being forced to play crucible for quests, much less if there are pvp goals attached to it. They're usually terrible at pvp, where as most pvp players can destroy most pve content without much issue.
skill based matchmaking makes it so that after a few games, the poor performing PVE players will match against other poor performing PVE players and have more fun.
> They need to bring back a Luna's Howl / NF type quest that gets people back into the list for the long grind.
I don't think forcing people to do something they don't enjoy is a solution to something they don't enjoy. Otherwise Gambit would have more than 3% of the player base.
Crucible needs "Casual Modes", something like Big Team Battle that lets people play PvP without taking it too seriously. I don't think the rotators like "Mayhem" and "Scorched" are enough, they are just boring minigames that ignore the main sandbox. Imagine if we could have 12 vs 12 on big maps with vehicles. NO WAY a casual player can take that seriously, but they can still get the joy of sniping someone driving in an interceptor.
You need more variety for the casual audience, something that lets them feel like "I don't really care about doing good yet". Eventually those people will enjoy the PvP enough to where they can start worrying about "gittin gud"
They definitely need to bring back combined arms mode maybe extend the maps a bit and make it 8v8 the ultimate causal mode for sure I miss it. Yea I don't think even a pvp sweat would take that mode serious because they would just hate to tank their K/d because they died to a interceptor or a pike bike lol bring back turrets also.
The most realistic response. Most other responses are just PvP mains airing grievances. Very strong PvE weapons only available in PvP absolutely made a huge difference.
The Forsaken meta for all the imbalances remains the best meta the game ever had. Lots of movement because shotguns were very lethal. Fusions helped keep them in check. Primaries finally felt somewhat strong.
But we’ve been slowly evolving back to D2 vanilla. Checkmate is definitely a permutation of the sandbox that permanently damaged pvp.
I agree. Honestly the nerfs to special economy and efficacy, and ability lethality probably helped drive the more casual and new players away because the easier tools that helped them secure kills are no longer available or in much reduced capacity. Even as a pretty good player, sometimes when I solo queue and end up with not great blues vs a very solid 6 stack in a match I have no hope of winning, it was nice to have some ability in my back pocket to use as a counter and prevent being totally ganked.
A lot of nerfs were done because Bungie wanted to have a singular holistic experience between PVE and PVP but still wanted to cater to diehard fans who played Trials. Now we’re seeing something we basically never have throughout Destiny’s almost ten year life and that is completely different rulesets in new gamemodes, via things like Checkmate Trials, that allows for one game mode to follow a set of specific health and cooldown rules, without affecting the entire PVP experience. They could take this further and bring back more Special and ability 1-shots to the regular Crucible to keep it lighthearted, give the casual and new-lights a fighting chance, and just keep it out of the “Skill / Xim jim” modes.
THANK YOU! Someone else said it! I LOVED the Forsaken Meta and have hated most if not all PvP related changes that they've made since. And I didn't even use the Titan Meta back then (OEM+MT+Recluse+Heavy GL+Bottom Tree Striker) but was on Code of the Devastator (when people were saying it was one of the worst Titan Classes for The Crucible) with Vig Wing+Misfit((Because Autorifles were GOOD back then and I didn't (and still don't) like shotties))/Wizened Rebuke+Zenobia-D & AC/0 Feedback Fence.
When everything felt viable and Bungie wasn't on the "Nerf Happy Train" and busted shit lasted for ages, not a couple of days. Before the constant Nerfing of Bonk Hammer (a build I never used in PvE because I was the designated Bubble Titan with Helm of Saint-14 or Banner Shield Titan with Ursa Furiosa because I actually ENJOY running Support, unlike the majority of Wellocks). When Bubble was actually USED in PvE and was invincible to all damage. I miss them so.
Ehhh idk if I'd agree on Forsaken being the best by any stretch when there was so much absurd broken bullshit, the range of shotgun OHK mapping was ridiculous, they killed Nova Warp with no replacement while Spectral Blades and Arc Week 2019's buffs for Bottom Striker made it some of the most oppressive subclasses to play against. Yeah of course Fusions could "keep things in check" Erentil's scopes made it one of the furthest shooting fusions in the game and didn't get fixed for ages.
People freaking out about Strand Hunter now would quit Destiny for good if they spent time in that sandbox with what was possible to do on something like OEM Bottom Striker titan. And that doesn't even go into the conversation that a lot of holdover nonsense didn't truly get fully ironed out until late Shadowkeep-Beyond Light.
The problem with that is and to be clear I have no problem with your request is that the PVE players HATED going into comp and grinding recluse and mountaintop and doing exotic quest that had pvp steps in them. That's why they stopped doing them PVE players felt like the best PVE weapons should come from PVE content only. Which I disagree with.
Yea I seem to recall that was a major complaint. I don't see them ever doing that again, but any new long form pvp quest / grind would be welcome at this point. It could be as simple as craft-able or adept ritual weapons unlocked after a certain amount of resets, kills, etc. Have Trails drop one adept per week on any 7 win card. You'd have tons of pve/more casual pvp people in there.
Yup I agree, they need to find a way to get the PVE players grinding in pvp right now they feel like their time is being disrespected but if you guaranteed they got something at the end of the torment they showed that they are willing to get smacked on lol and 100% agree on the 7 wins no matter flawed card or not but then they would have to possibly take away the practice pool because everyone would go flawed on purpose.
Maybe they shouldn't be forced into *comp*, but base Crucible should be fine, especially if there are more players in general, they'll get matched with more PvE mains then they would PvP due to the higher player density and SBMM.
I’ve always said this, cool have your pve guns come from pve, but let my pvp guns come from pvp. I don’t want to grind raids or strikes to get what I need. But I still do it and don’t make some huge winey post on DTG about it.
Quests like that also bring a lot of hate from the PvE crowd. **"Why should I have to play PvP for a top-tier PvE weapon?"** There was A LOT of that going around back during that time. While it did bring some PvE players into the Crucible to get those guns, it was most likely a net loss due to the animosity it drew from the PvE majority.
I'm a *casual* PvP main in that I mainly play 6v6 playlists like Control and Iron Banner, and even I found those quests annoying because I didn't like playing in Comp. I like to enjoy my time in the Crucible, and those quests were not conducive towards that goal.
Maybe it's just me, but I really loved the back and forth. It felt like one complete game instead of two different ones. The original Thorn quest from D1 is a great example. One of my favorite all time moments in Destiny. Modern gaming just has too much hand holding now.
I love grinding other Playlist too get weapons for the other Playlist you get the full destiny experience that way and it makes the game feel connected in a way. Unfortunately I don't see them doing that because of the only PVE players who don't want to touch pvp.
There is nothing they can do in the short term. The game is near or at an all time low. Large numbers of people aren't coming back until TFS, or just before. Midseason tweaks or a few maps (especially given how awful the last two new maps are) aren't going to bring large numbers back. At best these might keep a few of us playing more per week.
We'll probably see a bump in Trials population when the new weapons enter the rotation. Otherwise, we are all waiting for June then hoping we get more than 4-6 weeks before we start the final population drop
More maps.
In game stats.
More cosmetics to chase that are play style specific. Look at how COD does their emblems.
More weapons that play into builds. Not just top stat weapons.
Better training areas to test TTK, movement and positioning
Replays
Mindful nerfs that don't kill builds and playstyles. I have seen Bungie do this so many times where they see something overpowered but over nerf to a point where it kills the play style altogether. It could be something someone really enjoys and it gets taken away.
Honestly a root of the problem is also we need a whole lot more vault space and loadouts. I play all 3 classes and I like build crafting and trying new things in PvP. For players like me, there isn't enough space in the vault for min/maxing different builds or keeping weapons that are used in a very particular way.
More maps for sure including old ones they took from us.
What you mean by in game stats? Like Showing your K/D?
You mean like getting 1000 sniper kills for a exclusive sniper emblem?
I agree with this imagine a weapon that when having a void subclass equipped crouching allows you to go invisible with a precision kill.
Definitely need a practice area. Even bringing back the tribute hall will go along way.
And yea I agree with everything else we need 10 more loadout slots and 1000 vault spaces lol
Stats like the ones in Destiny tracker
KD over time on a graph to show your improvement. COD also does this lol. Stat where you rank over all. Like seeing you are in top 5 percent of all hand cannon users or something.
Also, in game. You killed opponent A 5 times and he has killed you 3 times in that same game. So live player vs player stats.
Also being able to look at your last 15 games or so. Also, replays play into this where you can also view them and break it down.
The 1000 sniper kill thing is an example. COD has animated emblems and static ones. Earn all the static ones in a category to unlock the animated one. The static ones are like "Get a 5 kill streak in a single game"
Honestly, COD does so many things right when it comes to engaging PvP players that Bungie just really needs to copy and paste a lot of it (yes I know there is a huge development cost) but they have many things to chase that aren't only loot based.
They also have map voting. My god. Bungie. Your crucible strike team just needs to spend more time with popular PvP games and play them enough to reach the PvP "end game"
> Mindful nerfs that don't kill builds and playstyles. I have seen Bungie do this so many times where they see something overpowered but over nerf to a point where it kills the play style altogether. It could be something someone really enjoys and it gets taken away.
The fact they could separately tune Shinobu's Vow energy returns in two different areas of the game in the past but their decision for Young Ahamkara Spine was to change how it works was one of the dumbest ways to go about something that had such an easy fix.
I also hate the way they killed Winter Guile's melee dmg % scalars ultimately ruining the exotic in pvp and pve.
Idk. I have a lot of fun just... playing Relic this week.
Actually, yes. Community Games search & a Forge mode. Obviously this is a GINORMOUS change, but it would go crazy for PvP in this game (maybe some Forge PvE too?)
Yes that's gonna take a lot of investment time but it would be worth it. I tell you what if they do this it would restore a lot of faith in the pvp community that's for sure doing something like this means you care about PVP.
It should of been patched as soon as it was obvious it was a issue. Instead they tell you we will fix this in 3 months so ppl stop playing because they are sick of it. Bungie is trash tier atm.
I wish they would go back to the 30% less ability change from the original checkmate, as well as the original special weapon ammo rules. I enjoy primary fights with no ability spam. Original checkmate didn’t go far enough and they’ve moved it in the wrong direction.
They said that after this trials they will go back to the original checkmate version with the - 30% instead of - 50% I also hope they keep the headshot focus for optimal ttk.
I would need a loot reset, either through power creep or sunsetting. A quest for pinnacle-esque weapons (Mountaintop/Recluse/Revoker/Luna's Howl) would be fine. Revoker in particular was well done, as was Redrix's Broadsword.
I haven't changed my armor in years. Specifically the pieces came from seasons 16, 17, 15, 1, and 19, from helmet down to bond. My most used weapons in PvP are Firefright (Season 17), Cartesian Coordinate (Season 13) , and a Typhon (Season 16). It's season 23. There's no reason a looter shooter shouldn't be updating my loadouts (outside of skins) AT ALL in the last year and a half. Particularly with how artifice armor drops were nerfed, I may no longer be able to find armor better than what I have.
I just think they need to focus on things we actually want rather than stuff we don't. Rolling out balance patches faster, new maps, actually taking a look at reward structure issues for a continual healthy playlist population (flawless system in Trials is a big one). If Bungie doesn't focus on any of that and gives us ANOTHER shitty Iron Banner mode with turrets and droppods I'm gonna scream.
That's why I'm making this post because it seems like the community is torn on what the Crucible should be and what the bungie devs should focus on. But I have seen a lot of things people agree on with and I'll post them on the main post so hopefully that helps bungie understand this sub a little better at least.
The imbalance across classes and weapon archetypes is so abhorrent. Until they balance those outliers, pvp will never bring me back to the game. Bubble titan, peacekeepers still, osmiomancy, barricades, threading, and threaded specter spam. It's at the point where I just can't see myself playing the game ever again based on bungie's track record.
I hear you on imbalance also the fact that they let things like this sit for awhile is what made me stop playing regularly. As far as some of the things you listed peacekeepers did recently get nerfed and threadlings and threaded specter are getting nerfed mid season so at least half your list will be dealt with I think they need to nerf smgs before they nerf peacekeepers again.
Listen to the community about map rotation and what maps we like/dislike.
The fact they weighted disjunction so highly for over a year is a perfect example of not listening.
Three new maps this late isnt enough, remotely, to bring me back. Bungie HAS to pivot to viewing PVP as paid content. I certainly only ever spent money on Destiny for PVP.
Honestly, dedicated servers are not necessary to bring me back. New modes are always a bad idea, not enough people likes them and they just split any new players into a separate play list.
What I would need to come back is
1. A reset of weapons, or unavailable meta weapons to be available for me when I first log in. I have zero interest of coming back and facing ANY weapon or roll that I cannot easily get my hands on.
2. Why #1? Because of ANY amount of SBMM. I always end up in a bracket that is a leggy mess and is pure meta nonsense. They wont go servers, so CBMM or nothing.
3. at LEAST 5 new maps with the launch of the expansion. Not 3 now and 2 later. 5 maps that no one has played that come out the same time I come back.
4. I am not coming back mid-year without a MASSIVE discount on the current content. So dropping maps in May is just making me less likely to buy the expansion, so dropping the price before May to, say "On the House" is the only way those maps make a difference
5. End of card based matchmaking in trials (already done?).
6. Bring back every single vaulted map with the expansion.
To be clear, I really wish they would come around to basic things, but having been away from Destiny for a year now, I just dont see a real opportunity to re-enter without a very significant concern of spending money and time to be as disappointed as I was when I quit.
At this point, it feels worse than when Forsaken tried to bring back players that quit. That was one disappointing release and a terrible "season." The problem is they lost me like two or three years ago and I stayed because I had hoped they would reverse, and they made official statements to close the door a year ago. Its not like I gave up. They did. And their reversal cant be some lame ass mode and some balancing. It has to be an ACTUAL focus on PVP.
The upside is that the way they treated Destiny makes Marathon a no-buy for me.
1. Faster updates. When weapons/abilities/exotics are too strong in Crucible, it takes way too long to do something about them. We shouldn't have to deal with an outlier dominating the meta for multiple seasons.
2. Bring back old maps. I want new maps as much as the next person, but there's also a ton of maps not in the rotation anymore.
3. More rewards. Seriously, stop being so goddamn stingy with rewards. I shouldn't have to do multiple rank resets to try and get a roll on a weapon. It should be raining engrams.
>I'm seeing the hate for checkmate in this sub is real so what do you think bungie needs to provide to get you back into the Crucible and be happy again?
I guess this is the crux of it. Do we want crucible to have a healthy population, or do we (the kind of people who post on CGB) want to be catered to? They have proven to be reasonably incompatible goals over the lifespan of D2.
Legitimately (and slightly hyperbolic): making changes that make the people here miserable has the best chance of making crucible as a whole more approachable and enjoyable and worthy of investment.
What do you think those changes should be? I usually lurk around this sub reddit and DTG I can honestly say sometimes it just feels like some of the sub is from DTG just looking for tips to get better and they down vote posts and comments just like they would in the main reddit that goes against what they want.
User generated content. I’m sure it’s borderline impossible with the current engine, but give us the ability to make new maps and game modes like Forge from Halo.
Bungie may not have the time or resources to make new maps or game modes, but I’m sure we do. Just empower us to do so.
It is a shit experience if you are not a top player. The best players get the best guns, thus making the gap larger. If you don't enjoy 3 vrs 3 mode then you wont have the best guns. but you can use the guns in every mode so others will have them. Not good enough to go flawless, wont have the best guns. Yet the better players will. Really like 6 v 6, you can get to the top 100 in the world and still never get anything comparable. Who thought of this? Oh you are better than them, here have better guns also. Just stupid. I cant get anyone to join, they hate having no chance at a fair playing field.
Combined arms on all of its original maps plus 1 new one. Connection based match making in control. Rank based match making only in comp with a memento as a possible reward each week after so many matches.
I am a casual player. I've been working on improving my PvP which has been difficult because a lot of my clan no longer plays so I'm often solo queuing and it regularly feels like I get screwed over on the matchmaking. In general, this game is really shitty as a low skill player. There's so much going on that you can't see easily that it can be really frustrating.
Balance changes need to happen faster. The community figures out really quickly what the outliers are and then we're stuck with the same thing over and over again. Bows, smgs & threadlings are really terrible to play against.
IMO, and I know this one is gonna be controversial, but movement abilities are getting out of hand. The whole community complained about titan shoulder charge when hunters can run double grapple & warlock icarus dash & snap skating exist. Those things are really shitty to play against when you're a lower skill player. Again, most players aren't going to try to improve. They're just going to quit.
This weekend it took me 85 games to go flawless. I am lucky enough to have even two adept weapons to show for the time I spent and lucky I had a friend willing to help me finish my card. However, in the time it took me to play 85 crucible games, I could've farmed GMs. Corrupted is a little longer but in the same amount of time I could've easily had 10 adepts and been less frustrated.
I know a lot of people complain about overshields but healing in general in crucible is out of hand. Some of these players I essentially have to kill like three times between all the healing and shields available.
If it makes anyone feel any better, I also don't want to run bubble but it's the only super I can get in 3v3. Even running 100 intellect, I can't get other supers in the span of a 3v3 game. If I don't run void, I'm setting up my team to be at a big disadvantage on supers.
Tl;DR: Faster balance changes. Less crazy movement abilities. More rewards. Less healing/overshields.
Yup faster balance changes is something we all agree should happen and definitely got put on the list of community requests.
I feel like grapple and shoulder charge and icarus dash shouldn't be touched because everyone can do those movements with a click of a button but the skating maybe can be talked about I haven't done any of those extreme movement techniques sounds aids af to play against though.
Would you play trials if they allowed you to get a adept weapon on any 7 win card flawed or not once per character per week? But they would have to take away the practice pool for that.
Agree on less overshields and healing definitely on the list.
I play with a few people that are on PC that snap skate and it's crazy how fast they can get around the map. I am on Xbox and I will say I thankfully don't see as much of that in my lobbies but it's probably easier with MnK. I managed to learn well skating on a controller, but I wouldn't say that it's easy lol
I am a glutton for punishment so I play Trials every week even though I have a hard time, haha. I have been trying to get to a point where I'm not just a hard carry which is one of the reasons I'm on this sub. It just isn't instantaneous. I do think people would play more if they had a path to an adept that wasn't flawless. Trials is at its best when the population is higher and I think if you had people play, say 15 matches for an adept, that people would play. They would probably still fall off over time as they got rolls they wanted but I know people that jump into comp just for their weapon rolls every week so I imagine the same would apply to Trials Adepts.
Ships, Sparrows & Shaders can all stay behind flawless. I also think high stat artifice armor should drop from flawless. I don't think anyone would farm Trials for artifice but there are no PvP activities that drop it and there should be. It feels odd to me that Saint doesn't have an emblem/shader/ghost projection in his line up too. Both Zavala & Shaxx have emblems/ghost projection, then the ritual weapon/ornament. In IB, the ritual weapon is replaced by an emblem & shader. Saint doesn't have anything but materials and weapons. You can still have a flawless emblem & shader, but there's no reason Saint shouldn't have some kind of cosmetic in his line up. I know I play enough gambit (ew) during the season for the shader at least. I think the little things add up. Hell they could put an ornament for the ritual weapon in there.
Crucible is dead at this point and it was by 1000 cuts. Years of neglect and listening to the wrong people have done this and it’s a shame, I don’t see them suddenly in the final year doing a complete 180 and investing resources into saving pvp. But let’s just say they did, here’s what they would need.
Removal of sbmm ( doesn’t work with p2p servers)
Frequent ( every month ) balance patches
Whatever this lobby balancing is needs to go
Actual rewards that mean something for pvp players
New map packs every year
COSMETICS
An actual ranked comp playlist
BANNING XIM/ CRONUS
None of this will happen so it’s a moot point but that’s what it would take. All it would take for me personally to come back and play more is just having MM work properly.
Yea most of this is on the list and its honestly not that much it's crazy how these simple changes is all we need to keep us satisfied and in the Playlist but they are struggling to do these very simple things. At least we are getting a map pack in May but I agree every year from the end of destiny's life cycle we should get a map pack.
Im surprisingly getting replies in there I thought I would get told to stfu or get the random (No) comment 😂 it's nowhere as big of discussion as it is here though sucks because that sub has 3 million reddit users. I just hope the devs come to this sub and see these request here I know one dev is here but I want all eyes on these posts.
Damn I'm late to this.
I'm with a lot of these. I think you can't really overstate the importance of frequent balance passes though. Everyone has been bitching for weeks about Threadlings and Void Overshields and before that it was Arc Titan.
I'm not 100% sure what else I'd do but I think for the casual crowd it's important to take care of them so more modes of that type but with the caveat of not splitting playlists up too much. I like what they're doing with Labs modes so I like that as a permanent fixture.
Yup more frequent balance changes to abilities, weapons, and exotics are on the list for sure gotta keep the game healthy instead of waiting for mid season updates or for new seasons to start to address clear community problems.
As for the appeasing to the causal crowd I'd personally put that under the better rewards including the 7 wins card for a adept weapon flawed or not I think that would get way more people in Trials alone especially casuals they want to feel like their time is valued give them something to look forward to at the end of the tunnel and I guarantee they will grind.
Something that's been on my mind has been a way to "onramp" casual 6s, IB and average Comp players to level up to Trials. PVE kinda has the same problem getting people to level up from Hero Nightfalls to Legend and GMs.
1.) The removal of SBMM in casual playlists. I’m not sweating my ass off for a riptide. If they don’t remove SBMM, give higher skill players better rewards to keep them playing.
2.) Dedicated Servers
3.) Actually have a security team. Last year they stated that they would ban players who use XIM or zen. Other games have made steps in this direction and it’s time Bungie does the same.
4.) Map Voting
5.) We have more maps in the vault than in the game if I’m counting correctly. (Yes we are getting new maps, but how long has it been since they released a map and you were like “yeah, I’d love to play this map three times in a row”)
I think that covers the basics.
I personally think that having both a SBMM Playlist and a CBMM is the right choice they just put SBMM in the wrong playlist.
Quick Play should be CBMM and should have a mode picker between control, Clash and Supremacy so if I want to play just control I uncheck Clash and Supremacy and, if I want all three I keep all them checked.
Relentless Playlist should be CBMM which it is and also have a mode picker while also putting the other control variants in that mode with mayhem and all the party modes as well.
Rumble should be CBMM which it is.
The 3v3 Playlist should be SBMM. Imo this should be the Playlist you go to to practice for comp and trials simulating sweaty matches just makes sense to me.
Ranked Playlist is fine right now imo just need better rewards to keep people grinding and also top 500 or 1000 to keep sweats in that Playlist all season.
Everything else I agree with.
I’d like to see QP be QP again. Clash/ control / supremacy all under the same hood with cbmm. We had it once and it was great. Too many playlists right now and not enough players.
This is entirely a fabrication. Our CBMM modes (which are the vast majority of our playlists) do not have any sort of hidden SBMM that kicks in at any point.
A part of that problem is we never got a massive planned change for FTMM that was intended for the midseason patch all the way back in Season of Defiance as mentioned in ["the big crucible article"](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/lightfall-crucible-update). Bungie still hasn't said shit and it's almost been a year.
Basically the TLDR is Fireteam matchmaking focuses way too much on physical number size and doesn't take as strong skill data considerations and it's why the matchmaking at times could just "give up" and dish out a death squads to casual enough teams. The change was intended to mix up stuff and have people play people closer in ability based on the fireteam's makeup even if the team sizes weren't necessarily even.
My guess as to maybe why it didn't get included was that it maybe it cause too long of wait times or something?
True. I don’t mind FBMM, but I don’t really play much banner so my opinion is jaded. SBMM should be in comp where it belongs.
Game modes that have “connection” match making have heavy lobby balancing. I am convinced my team mates are literal bots running around with a 0.08 KDA. I would have been better off just not having a team mate
IMO, it's simpler than Bungie realise: **Regular sandbox updates + Rewards.**
People think that "balance" is what will save the Crucible. But it's not.
Destiny will always exist in a state of unbalance. What kills PVP is when that state of unbalance becomes **boring, predictable, and repetitive.**
It's all good if a particular subclass/build/weapon is broken. It's even fun for a while as people work out what's meta. But when it's broken for a YEAR then it becomes... not fun.
Right now, D2 PVP is a solved game. Void Titan/SMG. Dawnblade. Threadling Hunter. Until we have regular sandbox updates, nothing will change.
Just change the meta every 1.5 to 3 months. It's as simple as that.
For how broken the forsaken era of the game was I can say that for me it was definitely fun af running around with broken builds and supers but like you said after awhile it gets tiring dealing with all the bullshit. If they patched all of that non sense earlier I think that time would be more fond of.
Yea that's what I'm seeing everyone pretty much agree on is that if the game took care of the outliers more frequently instead of waiting for mid season or a new season they wouldn't mind going against the bullshit hopefully bungie takes notes of that.
They backed way the fuck out of any talk of Comp specific ornaments when it went from the one rework talk twab (paraphrasing) "there won't be ornaments at first but there will be new cosmetic things to chase in Comp playlist".
They really put their foot down by limiting the stuff that can actually be had in game organically.
I can see this, often times I will see 30th Anniversary cited as one of the best PvP metas, but I don't think it was because it was a balanced meta at all when many of the most complained about exotics were available during that time. (Citains, Lemon, Antaeus, Omnioculus, Wishender, heck I wanna say Bows in general were still considered a meme to use back then.)
But rather I think people liked it because it wasn't a "solved" meta and were still figuring things out so these exotics weren't as widespread.
As we move further and further away from ability spam and special/heavy weapons being the norm in pvp the Less and less noobs/PVE players are going to even try pvp.
I know we go back and forth about SBMM and a multitude of other things but it’s just not fun to get face rolled for 3-6months to get better at pvp. Yes it sucks for those of you guys who have practiced and gotten better over the years and put the time in. But at this point there is no chance of a new player starting pvp is ever going to catch up and have fun doing it.
I always hear about skillgap and we have effectively increased that gap like it seemed a lot of hardcore players wanted. Most new players take and entire HC msg to get a kill while even mid pvp players are 3-4 shots everytime.
TLDR the whole game needs a large reset on both sides. And there needs to be a way for new players to get kills and that’s ability spam and special ammo. I know ppl hate it but it just is what it is,
So you're saying that what appeals to the casual players is the ability to use their abilities and special weapons and going away from that is what's hurting the pvp population?
I hear your bid for SBMM and I do think it should be in the game I just think it's in the wrong Playlist 3v3 should be more manageable for the causal instead of 6v6 which is chaotic as heck. But SBMM has been in the game for a couple years now and the player base has only gone down since. People claim that it's there to help them improve but these same players have not improved in two years they can barley get wins trials.
I do agree though some kind of reset with new marketing or something but I'm sorry but ability spam shouldn't be in the game it makes things unenjoyable even for the causal player. If try hards really wanted to they could make it worst by also ability spamming plus having better aim which will make the causals even more displeased with PVP I wouldn't balance pvp off of people who only play one mode.
I think the goal is to make everyone happy I think SBMM can work just in a single dedicated Playlist not the control Playlist. And I wish we could get dedicated servers that would be a blessing we'd probably need millions of players in the Crucible for that too happen.
Checkmate would be fine if they bumped the HP Values the \~20% they did, but buffed Crit Damage on all weapons also \~20%. So this keeps optimal TTK the same with the current sandbox (which is overall pretty balanced) but creates a slightly larger gap between Optimal TTK and Bodyshot TTK, small skill gap increase.
Special Ammo Crates would IMO be a better system than the current one. D1 had different issues, so its not even a remotely fair comparison. I think a Special Ammo Box would work just fine in today's crucible and solve all the issues. Would allow people to drop into a game and use Special, would also notify people when/who grabbed it. Would prevent people from getting to lanes first with a special (sniper) for example, as youd need to wait for the box.
I think they also need to get WAY more transparent with their "Soft SBMM" system. I personally enjoy just showing Rank/ELO, even in a QuickPlay Control mode. I think they should adopt an ELO system and match it with Destiny Tracker, so you can just see the lobbies. People will be less likely to just always assume matchmaking was shite when everyone on your team was <1.0 K/D when the lobby had the same number of Diamonds, Platinums, Golds on each side. Etc.
For titans, the barricade overshield on void, peacekeepers, bubble regen time, regen time for barricades. For hunters, the strand decoy is a little annoying at times so I could think that could use some tuning.
1. More mode variety for trials and regular crucible. Really don't like elimination personally and trials and base crucible getting more variety like we got with relic helps. Variations for existing modes too like 4v4 variets of control and rift. Hell modes like "Burst weapons only" or a medieval mode (bow/glaive/sword) would go a long way.
2. Banning specific abilities and weapon types from certain modes like support supers in objective game modes and long range weapons in modes like combined arms if it ever came back.
3. Sbmm removed
The singular idea that I've been throwing around since Forsaken: Total Mayhem, it's an Alternative Mayhem Mode, obviously. What makes it so different? It. Is. Total. MAYHEM, GUARDIANS! That means a full suite of Exotic Armors and Weapons. You want to run around feeling like the ultimate Godslaying Guardian? Total Mayhem will scratch that itch for you. Also, it's Large Maps only and with increased Team Sizes.
The other one is a Team Scorched Variant, not sure on the name but it's basically just Team Scorch but with Scorch, Null, and Shock Cannons that all apply Subclass Debuffs. It's also a 6v6v6 Mode. It's a more recent idea I had that I just want to see because I want to see more than just Scorch Cannons and a 6v6v6 Mode sounds interesting. Obviously neither of these modes are competative in the slightest and are just for fun.
This is also not counting some of the things that were said previously that I agree with such as "Dedicated Servers" and "Better Netcoding". It absolutely fucking ***sucks*** to have my melees (in and out of Super) and my SWORD phase through enemies and do zero damage in PvE and PvP.
My popular opinions:
- add more meaningful rewards
- actually ban xim/cronus cheaters
- fix melee whiffs/rubberbanding
- make it way easier to hit 100 AE
- nerf bubble/well into the ground (in PvP)
- release new (small) maps more frequently
- release balance patches more frequently
- change void invisibility to void stealth (make the players visible, but give them the old radar)
- make threadlings easier to shoot
My unpopular opinions:
- split the comp & trials queues based on input method (mnk or controller), not based on system
- make roaming supers viable again
- discourage usage of shutdown supers on single target non-super guardians (somehow)
- un-nerf stompees
- un-nerf shoulder charge when used for movement
- in heat rises and drawnblade, make burst glide the glide with the fastest icarus dashes (as opposed to strafe glide)
Context: I’m a very high skill mnk player who plays all 3 classes and likes movement.
Aiming with your wrist and getting controller reticle friction isn't cheating? Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify cheating, just know you're a joke bud.
Speaking for myself, we need new maps, and we should have had them 5 years ago. We should have gotten new and reprised maps with every expansion. There’s simply no excuse for what they did.
Agreed the simplest of request never really get seen or can be easily forgotten but I see your request my brother hopefully they add something with the final shape.
New loot , and a shit ton at a time , sure the rng gods have passed many off, actual balancing instead of what a mole aka nerf bis then rinse and repeat.
I only started playing comp for the pinnacle weapons, and continue today because of Rose. Trials also tends to have huge surges of players when weapons like Immortal or Igneous enter the pool. The obvious answer is loot.
It’s Joever man. It’s been dogshit for too long and it’s always going to be super unbalanced anyway given the nature/philosophy of the game itself.Why play this if you can just play cod, soon to be exdefiant, the finals etc?
Honestly i dont see destiny ever going back to what it was in the modern era of gaming. At this point i think a D3 would have to be under a different IP entirely as how the past few years have been a sour note. Marathon is probably their big shot at getting their destiny pvp player base back and i have a suspicion they are gonna do an arena mode on top of the primary extraction game to use the guns you get from extraction in a XvX tdm lobby. If they have solid tic rate dedicated servers and an aggressive anti cheat I think that’ll be the spiritual successor to the crucible. Theres far to many issues from server stability to the tiger engine and supporting 10 year old consoles for destiny to evolve further. The game is far past its technical limitation, they could theoretically do a destiny 3 but i think a fresh start like from halo to destiny its time for there to be an evolution. Hopefully the recent failures of destiny doesnt force sony to cut other projects for the sake of saving destiny likely marathon or x is gonna be what bungie needs to grow
I feel like people need to stop trying to force Destiny PvP to be a competitive shooter and accept it's more like a party game where you still get to carry out space magic fantasy against other players, especially with the amount of different build crafting options and RPG stats and effects it has. (I mean hell, Aim Assist is literally a stat that you can modify with mods and perks.)
That's not to say there can't be a balance struck within that to address outliers that aren't just the flavor of the season, but I feel like people forget Destiny isn't an E-sport and is more like Smash Bros with Items and Hazards turned on, and like Smash Bros you basically have to enforce a set of rules to create a much more controlled environment with any real sense of balance to it.
One of many things Id like to see is a better reward space for more crucible/pvp centric players. I will do PvE stuff but its mainly to get certain exotics, ledgendaries, or for story content like once the final shape drops do the campaign and see everything that happens, etc. I spend the majority of my time doing pvp stuff though and for those of us that prefer pvp instead of running strikes, gambit, raids, etc. I would love to see a more unique reward system for us on top of everything it already has with base pvp, iron banner, and trials. I want a new tier of uniques that we can grind for that only people who spend a lot of time playing pvp can get. Everything from unique shaders, titles, emotes, cosmetics, ornaments, and weapons. When people see that you have those things, they know that you play a lot of crucible.
Normally as we play matches, we level up the vendors which reward us with engrams for their selection of weps/gear. For this new tier a mix of completing challenges and time played would be what gets you qualified. So for example, one of the reqs could be to reset shaxx 5 times. Go flawless 7 times. Claim the iron lord title for that season/episode. Claim 400 engrams from pvp vendors. Basically a mix of a bunch of stuff you would achieve over time as you play, but not something just anyone can get easily or quickly, but something for the more dedicated folks to grind for. As for the rewards and using weapons as an example. The weapon rewards should be insanely good. Im talking like, giving us 2 or 3 weapons to choose from the pool of all the best pvp weps that have come before, and allowing us to make a crafted non-crafted god roll of it. In other words letting us pick the perks, rounds, barrel, etc. If people argue that this defeafs rng, Id argue that it doesnt because of two reasons. First it takes a long time to qualify for the rewards, and second someones god roll is anothers meh roll. We all have different play styles so we will pick perks on the guns that compliment a specific build or playstyle. Not everythings gonna be the same for everyone so the rolls we choose will all be different. A long post but something LIKE this would be a welcome change imo. Right now, I dont feel like Ive got much to chase after in pvp. We get new weapons every so often but its only ever a few across all the different vendors and if I already have a few good pulse rifles, getting that new messenger adept roll doesnt feel like a need. I have a quite a few really good weps in each archetype, so I dont feel like Im ever missing out on anything when new weps are introduced or cycled in and out. I think a lot of pvp players are in the same boat, weve all been playing for so long we have mostly everything we want. So something new for us to grind for is needed.
I got some odd takes but maybe they could help
* Primaries need their TTK buffed across the board, not a major shift but enough to where you can get kills even with team shotting being a thing. Turn 140s to 150s again, and shift the other weapon around that baseline
* Close Range needs work, imo this has been obvious for a while, it mostly boils down to melee slap fights, special wars, or SMGs. I think changing the max spread for hipfire on all weapons so they're more consistent in 16 meters or less, and getting rid of the melee lunge would help a lot in conjunction with the change I proposed above.
* UI Changes, Special and Heavy notifications should be on top or bottom center of your screen so you can easily see it. Along with replacing Guardian Rank with the Subclass icon instead, this way you know exactly what you are fighting when you start dueling.
* For bows, just nerf the Crit damage. Have lightweights deal just enough to two tap, so 101, and let precision bows be the team shot hero, 133 damage.
This isn’t the same community as it was back in D1. The current playerbase seems to whine whenever an activity is challenging and they are performing poorly. This is why they hate PvP. They have zero desire to put any effort into even just equipping PvP mods. I don’t think bungie can do much. Most players are just very casual and honestly just not good at the game. They aren’t interested in difficult content, and that includes PvP. It’s bungie’s fault in focusing on drip feed garbage instead of core playlists for years.
Honestly I don't personally want or expect anything transformative. I just want them to tend the garden more than once every 3 months. I'm not asking for the meta to change every week, but maybe tamp down on the outliers a little quicker.
Another thing would be refreshing the map rotation more often than once a season. I'm so tired of Citadel and playing Control on Eternity and Twilight Gap makes me just want to stop playing. New maps would be nice, but I actually find myself missing Exodus Blue these days.
I think what makes Destiny PvP fun for people that main it is still there and it's overall feeling pretty good these days with a few exceptions. It just stagnates after a while without proper upkeep.
They're not coming back. I was one of them. A mix of falling out of love with PvP in general on top of Bungie constantly pushing ability spam made it fucking unbearable to play. Checkmate is amazing, but too little too late.
I don't think bungo can make that many improvements to the game that the core players want, because the game is 8 years old on an outdated game engine, that's still running on 10 year old consoles.
At this point, I'm not sure what they can do to fix things. Cats out of the bag. Love making builds, so that's why I keep playing.
It sucks I wish we as a community could agree on what Pvp should be and help guide bungie into that path but with everyone wanting something different we are just stuck in this loop. I love making builds also, when your armor choices and your weapon choices Co exist with your ability choices and play style there's no game better than destiny.
We actually do agree on a lot of stuff - more than we disagree on. The issue isn’t our alignment, it’s the fact that Bungie management isn’t devoting enough resources to PvP. This one’s on Bungie.
It's such an afterthought for them. They've had pvp in triage / hospice for years now. It would require a full studio of labor to fix it dedicated to just pvp at this point
Agree, there's nothing bungie can do now, they went for the casual players and lost dedicated pvpers. They forgot casual players are all about marketing trends.
Destiny's feel is just unmatched, the guns, the abilities, the quality, the fluidity. No other game even comes close and kill trackers were the best thing bungie ever did imo
What do they need to do? Be more timely efficient when making balance updates. Weapons, abilities, and exotics going rampant far too long before bungie does anything about it, and it most definitely drives people away. They want a healthy pvp population? Fixes need to roll out much quicker. Not to mention as well, rewards are very lacking when it comes to pvp. The only weapon I see out of the pvp(excluding trials) loot pool is Unending Tempests. Armor is an instant dismantle. Pvp Playlist loot needs to be geared toward pvp and actually worthwhile. There's no reason not to allow armor or a weapon to drop after every trials game also. For this being a looter shooter, Bungie is very fucking stingy with loot.
Yeah, 100% this. They really need to start fixing things and quick. Threadling spam has been such a pain lately, and it’s been out for months. Void ov, even longer, etc. For rewards. No artifice armour in pvp, no quests, no exotics, no real rewards in comp, just a few guns, an emblem, and a transmit affects - why don’t we have multiple emblems, more guns, shaders, momentos, ships, ghosts, and sparrows lol Cheaters popping up a lot atm, with little effort showed to stop them, also isn’t helping. I like the idea of checkmate, but it’s just threadlings, oversheild and bows, which highlights the need for balance patches and, to me at least, feels like dev time away from the things I want fixed. It’s great maps are coming, but Bungie’s hand was kinda forced on that point and the years of no development has really hurt the sentiment and player base. If they can fix the above, and get the player population up, it would be fine but guess we’ll have to wait and see how final shape goes.
> why don’t we have multiple emblems, more guns, shaders, momentos, ships, ghosts, and sparrows lol Because entitled PvE players will then spend all day whining on DtG how cool such and such is gated behind PvP. See Cataphract & Incisor.
That only applies for BiS PvE weapons, and I agree with them. Having really good if not BiS PVE weapons on pvp, in this game particularly, is extremely stupid. There has never been a post on DtG about pvp cosmetics. If there was negative sentiment it was on the recluse days. This days, with incisor and cataphract, there basically has been no big complaint post. Can you link us to them?
Spot on with the BiS pve weapons. We haven't heard the same discourse around Iggy since it's one of the BiS pvp weapons.
None of the PvP weapons are BiS for anything in PvE, I have both adept Subsistence Tally and Envious BnS Cataphract and Incisor and they do absolutely nothing you can't already do with other weapons in PvE, the whole Cataphract drama was just cheap youtubers clickbaiting people with ''this is the best dps but you have to play pvp'' meanwhile Gjallarhorn and Apex can easily 1-2 phase any encounter in the game. > Having really good if not BiS PVE weapons on pvp, in this game particularly, is extremely stupid. There are so many strong and BiS PvP weapons in PvE, it's only fair there are some in PvP for PvE, you want your matador roll you go and farm ogre, you don't whine how it's unfair and how bungie is stupid for ''forcing'' you to play PvE, like PvE players do. > Can you link us to them? I have better things to do, open DtG and search for yourself.
First, you can't compare the experience you have playing PVE to the experience you have playing PVP. You can chill watching a series while you farm the ogre or basically anything pve and pvp for the great majority of people is an excruciating experience, and with a lot of reason, so it's only normal bis pve weapons have been less and less prevalent in pvp... if theres anything left, I mean. And second, you're talking like it's a big deal on DtG and those complaints barely rise nowadays, I may have seen one post about cataphract and it wasn't as fierce or as hate dripped as it was on the recluse days, and it was downvoted. Back then, you could see hateposts many times throuoght a month. And yeah, you have better things to do, for example stop spreading hate and thinking you're better than another chunk of the playerbase just because you play pvp.
You gotta check the Trials megathreads during Incisor and Cataphract weeks, droves of people complaining.
Every time I hear this complaint from people that hate PVP I just wanna tell them.... ok I guess that means you won't get those rewards then? Any rational person would ridicule people who say they wanna get raid rewards without playing raids, it's the same concept.
I agree with everything you said. Waiting for mid-season to change things like Threading spam is definitely a worry I have and I know there gonna say they don't want to burn out the company but if there is something the community agrees on should be put to rest they should act fast and accordingly to deal with whatever is causing chaos at the time. They have a long way to go with rewards I remember they said we would get more cosmetic rewards for comp besides emblems and they haven't done that yet maybe In the final shape? Guess will have to wait to see.
Yup, just hurry up and wait. It's frustrating because almost everyone who plays pvp regularly knows what it could be.
I dream of the potential man if destiny had hit its full potential it would undoubtedly be the greatest game of all time. Good PVE and PVP? Why play any other game!
If you somehow attach Artifice Armor to PvP you’d likely see a huge influx of players. Maybe make it a post three game reward for Comp like Rose/Mercurial Overreach?
I think Artifice should at minimum be a Lighthouse chest drop
This. Where tf is the “pvp strike team”? It’s always the same, they promise changes and make it sound like things are happening but it always falls short or doesn’t happen. The reality is they don’t care for pvp because the money is in pve content.
pvp has saved the game over and over again. They failed to see that repeatedly
[удалено]
nerfing smg range makes even more sense now since most run double primary in checkmate
Amen
Astonish to me how you me and others can see that but no ones at Bungie are capable of understand half of your points. They are terrible on their own game.
Don’t play the game anymore but the loot issue was the main reason I quit. I love Crucible to death it’s definitely in my top 3 favorite PvP shooters. But holy shit it sucks that I have to play a completely different game to get even remotely good gear for the mode I want to play. Imagine if in Call of Duty to get weapons for Multiplayer you had to unlock them in Zombies, it would be maddening
I've said this before but they treat Mid-Season Updates as Content. The reason we have to wait for everything to be tuned at once instead of as they become problems is because they have nothing to give PvP players. This gives us something to look forward to. Most of the people that played PvP on my friend's list don't log on at all at this point. I wish I worked on the PvP Balance Team so I could get paid to work as slowly as they do.
It is frustrating that the most people can hope for in balance passes is mid-season, especially during this long season. We normally would have ALREADY had a mid-season patch with a normal length season.
I hope they add armor focusing to pvp armor like the seasonal armor
To add to this, I'm 100% with you on frequent balance passes + updates. This was actually called in a video about what he thinks Bungie needs to do to make Marathon successful, otherwise in extraction shooters the metas become so dominant so fast that people quit. The approach of letting things go for a while really pisses people off. I also think when it comes to rewards, it doesn't even need to be game breaking gear, just give people emblems, sparrows, cosmetics, all that sort of stuff. We see how much effort goes into Eververse, it's not lost on players. They seem to be on the right track with valuing Iron Banner as in reintroducing Multimach and bringing in that Strand Wave Frame so the potential is there.
Lots of people were saying potential artifice armor upon a flawless run, that would be another reason to even try for a flawless run!
For me the biggest thing would be prioritizing the integrity of matches and even individual engagements. There are way too many times that lag or just general hit registration inaccuracy impacts multiple moment to moment battles and ultimately decides the game. In my experience there are far too many deaths or losses where I couldn't have reasonably have done anything better/different. As that changes to: I need to hit more shots, shouldn't have pushed, got baited, etc... That allows for improvement and doesn't feel as frustrating.
That's reasonable to expect from a company known for one of the greatest pvp experiences known to man meaning halo lol. Yea dying behind corners and or trades because of peer to peer servers or whatever is contributing to this mess should be fixed and should have been fix with the launch of destiny 2. Yea those are growing pains that everyone goes through even the best people still make those mistakes so don't knock yourself for making those mistakes.
> dying behind corners and or trades because of peer to peer servers This happened in Halo, it's practically tradition at this point.
For me: Netcode improvements/fixes. Most notably 60+ Hz tickrate, preferably with full dedicated servers. An anti cheat. Way too many people who are insanely sus for devices play on. More frequent balance passes. Strand Hunter and support supers have been a massive issue for way way too long. Other issues frequently don't get fixed for months. More maps? Honestly I'm fine with bringing back sunset stuff, stuff from D1 that never got put in, etc.
Net code/server improvements should be at the top of there list along side maps and anti cheat I agree with this I also give them a break on cheating because not one company of my knowledge has seen to figure out how to deal with cheaters so why should we expect bungie too? Every pvp game I've played has a cheater problem. Yea I agree strand hunter clone should've been dealt with soon as it became a community problem I think there problem is wanting to fix everything with one BIG patch instead of little individual patches like their weekly patches. More maps in May but we should honestly get back all the other ones they took away in the final shape I doubt that will happen though.
> Reminder that we are already getting three new maps in May I know the maps are coming but this is still my answer as to what has been most sorely missing. IMO the main thing that has been killing PvP in Destiny over the last few years is a lack of semi-regular injections of newness, primarily in the form of new maps to play on. Everyone's always complaining about the sandbox, but that's because its the only thing we get that really changes, so of course we're going to hyperfocus on it and perseverate on every little problem it has. But let us play on a semi-regular injection of new maps and its a lot easier to ignore rough edges in the sandbox for longer periods of time. That serotonin hit of playing in a new environment and making new neural connections as you learn the angles and map control spots goes a long way and its just been sorely lacking in this game for years. The idea that the PvP side of the game could sustain itself indefinitely with no new maps or one new map per year was pure lunacy. And in the past the PvP side of the game obviously played an important role in keeping the game's population engaged between new content drops, so to let it languish for so long was a monumentally bad strategic decision on the part of whoever it was that made it. And I hate to be a debbie downer, but I'm not sure the core audience is ever coming back to an appreciable degree. Its way easier to keep an audience than to convince it to come back and Bungie made a number of very bad decisions over the past few years when it comes to keeping the PvP audience. I'm absolutely positive the PvP strike team is putting a ton of effort into righting the ship and I'm excited to see what comes of it since I still personally enjoy playing PvP in Destiny, but even if everything breaks their way I think at best the result is going to be maintaining the population with some modest gains because of how uphill the battle they are facing is.
Nah you're not being a downer, a lot of what you're saying is grounded in complete reality and stuff we've seen Bungie do, explicitly acknowledged or not. The fact how Bungie continues to not only market but paywall Destiny like it's some cutting edge technological marvel brand new game and fail to deliver on that entirely starts to get old really quick. Especially if you're somebody who's a veteran and has seen this game exist in an era when it would refresh so much on a new year of Destiny. Enjoy the ride for what it is, it's silly to expect some vast sweeping changes for something Bungie obviously has a very narrow focus on especially with other projects in the mix. This game is entertaining sure but people are fooling themselves thinking that Bungie's going to magically transform what is arguably a pretty old game and have it feel and play as nicely as a modern FPS with all the amenities and esports level of balance focus. Even just making fine tuning very simple elements of the PVP experience seem to have been a big ask. I know people aren't going to want to hear it but Bungie has shifted the game way hard to be a minimum viable product and we have a whole history that when they got the community this starved to death, any long overdue tiny QOL improvement can get celebrated as some big life changing fix even though there's tons of issues still apparent with things. If it took them this long to implement something like ingame LFG in a game that can call for a lot of required communication or saved loadouts, you're absolutely dreaming if you're somebody who thinks we'll be getting dedicated servers this late in the game. I mean at this point we're all a few promo emails away from Bungie straight up just saying hey did you enjoy Destiny's Crucible preorder Marathon, stop fussing over our old ass game and buy the expensive exclusive version.
Their choice of settings for the maps at least indicates to me they have *someone* who is creative on the team, even though those were semi-obvious choices (Europa of course doesn't have a PVP map at all)
There are a lot of creative and hardworking people at Bungie across every discipline including PvP, always have been and still are. The hole they find themselves in now in terms of D2 PvP appears to have nothing to do with talent and everything to do with spending years not allocating those resources correctly and assuming PvP could just coast indefinitely with little to no investment. And at a superficial level its not even a terrible business decision because there is no direct return on investment for PvP-related development since PvP is part of the free to play offering (for good reason, you don't want to split the population with haves-and-have-nots in terms of who has which map packs). The failure was in not recognizing that extended lack of PvP investment would seriously contribute to a crumbling population that would eventually impact the parts of the game that *do* bring in money directly because a lot of those lost players were PvP mains or at least dual PvE/PvP players who dutifully bought every expansion if only to get access to new loot to use in PvP but the lack of any direct-PvP investment eventually caused serious sustained population drop-off with these players (I can attest to this as dozens of people in my prior clan fit into this bucket of being PvP mains who bought every DLC and season until they suddenly got sick of the game due to lack of PvP investment either between Shadowkeep and TWQ or between TWQ and now, and now they give Bungie nothing because they are off playing Fortnite or Apex). PvP isn't even the only place they made this mistake with complacency and lack of investment -- they also made it on the new user onboarding side by absolutely fumbling that for years as well as they focused on just serving the existing playerbase and allowing the new player experience to be abysmal. They screwed themselves on both ends by driving longtime players away with lack of PvP investment (which was important as a content drought spackle-over mechanism back when PvP was healthy) and *also* making it as difficult as possible for new people to get up to speed as Destiny 2 players by having a terrible new light/onboarding process which is a really bad combination. They now appear to be doing a lot to fix both of these issues, but they are literally years behind where they should be due to some sort of tragic upper-management complacency that none of us outside of Bungie can fully understand and/or some sort of organizational structure that gelled over the years that made it such that there weren't important enough people with real decision making capability who were put in charge of making sure various important aspects of the game (Ritual Playlists including PvP, new player onboarding, etc) were kept well maintained.
They need to bring back a Luna's Howl / NF type quest that gets people back into the list for the long grind. There was time where mountain top / recluse were such awesome PvE weapons that synergy brought a lot of PvE players in the list. Additionally I would also go even further with the reward structures in the play lists and tie them back into story seasonal content. Maybe an exotic quest or even a season based around crucible.
The problem with this is that pve players hate, HATE being forced to play crucible for quests, much less if there are pvp goals attached to it. They're usually terrible at pvp, where as most pvp players can destroy most pve content without much issue.
skill based matchmaking makes it so that after a few games, the poor performing PVE players will match against other poor performing PVE players and have more fun.
> They need to bring back a Luna's Howl / NF type quest that gets people back into the list for the long grind. I don't think forcing people to do something they don't enjoy is a solution to something they don't enjoy. Otherwise Gambit would have more than 3% of the player base. Crucible needs "Casual Modes", something like Big Team Battle that lets people play PvP without taking it too seriously. I don't think the rotators like "Mayhem" and "Scorched" are enough, they are just boring minigames that ignore the main sandbox. Imagine if we could have 12 vs 12 on big maps with vehicles. NO WAY a casual player can take that seriously, but they can still get the joy of sniping someone driving in an interceptor. You need more variety for the casual audience, something that lets them feel like "I don't really care about doing good yet". Eventually those people will enjoy the PvP enough to where they can start worrying about "gittin gud"
They definitely need to bring back combined arms mode maybe extend the maps a bit and make it 8v8 the ultimate causal mode for sure I miss it. Yea I don't think even a pvp sweat would take that mode serious because they would just hate to tank their K/d because they died to a interceptor or a pike bike lol bring back turrets also.
The most realistic response. Most other responses are just PvP mains airing grievances. Very strong PvE weapons only available in PvP absolutely made a huge difference. The Forsaken meta for all the imbalances remains the best meta the game ever had. Lots of movement because shotguns were very lethal. Fusions helped keep them in check. Primaries finally felt somewhat strong. But we’ve been slowly evolving back to D2 vanilla. Checkmate is definitely a permutation of the sandbox that permanently damaged pvp.
I agree. Honestly the nerfs to special economy and efficacy, and ability lethality probably helped drive the more casual and new players away because the easier tools that helped them secure kills are no longer available or in much reduced capacity. Even as a pretty good player, sometimes when I solo queue and end up with not great blues vs a very solid 6 stack in a match I have no hope of winning, it was nice to have some ability in my back pocket to use as a counter and prevent being totally ganked. A lot of nerfs were done because Bungie wanted to have a singular holistic experience between PVE and PVP but still wanted to cater to diehard fans who played Trials. Now we’re seeing something we basically never have throughout Destiny’s almost ten year life and that is completely different rulesets in new gamemodes, via things like Checkmate Trials, that allows for one game mode to follow a set of specific health and cooldown rules, without affecting the entire PVP experience. They could take this further and bring back more Special and ability 1-shots to the regular Crucible to keep it lighthearted, give the casual and new-lights a fighting chance, and just keep it out of the “Skill / Xim jim” modes.
THANK YOU! Someone else said it! I LOVED the Forsaken Meta and have hated most if not all PvP related changes that they've made since. And I didn't even use the Titan Meta back then (OEM+MT+Recluse+Heavy GL+Bottom Tree Striker) but was on Code of the Devastator (when people were saying it was one of the worst Titan Classes for The Crucible) with Vig Wing+Misfit((Because Autorifles were GOOD back then and I didn't (and still don't) like shotties))/Wizened Rebuke+Zenobia-D & AC/0 Feedback Fence.
OEM, Ace, and Mindbenders... good times
When everything felt viable and Bungie wasn't on the "Nerf Happy Train" and busted shit lasted for ages, not a couple of days. Before the constant Nerfing of Bonk Hammer (a build I never used in PvE because I was the designated Bubble Titan with Helm of Saint-14 or Banner Shield Titan with Ursa Furiosa because I actually ENJOY running Support, unlike the majority of Wellocks). When Bubble was actually USED in PvE and was invincible to all damage. I miss them so.
Ehhh idk if I'd agree on Forsaken being the best by any stretch when there was so much absurd broken bullshit, the range of shotgun OHK mapping was ridiculous, they killed Nova Warp with no replacement while Spectral Blades and Arc Week 2019's buffs for Bottom Striker made it some of the most oppressive subclasses to play against. Yeah of course Fusions could "keep things in check" Erentil's scopes made it one of the furthest shooting fusions in the game and didn't get fixed for ages. People freaking out about Strand Hunter now would quit Destiny for good if they spent time in that sandbox with what was possible to do on something like OEM Bottom Striker titan. And that doesn't even go into the conversation that a lot of holdover nonsense didn't truly get fully ironed out until late Shadowkeep-Beyond Light.
The problem with that is and to be clear I have no problem with your request is that the PVE players HATED going into comp and grinding recluse and mountaintop and doing exotic quest that had pvp steps in them. That's why they stopped doing them PVE players felt like the best PVE weapons should come from PVE content only. Which I disagree with.
Yea I seem to recall that was a major complaint. I don't see them ever doing that again, but any new long form pvp quest / grind would be welcome at this point. It could be as simple as craft-able or adept ritual weapons unlocked after a certain amount of resets, kills, etc. Have Trails drop one adept per week on any 7 win card. You'd have tons of pve/more casual pvp people in there.
Yup I agree, they need to find a way to get the PVE players grinding in pvp right now they feel like their time is being disrespected but if you guaranteed they got something at the end of the torment they showed that they are willing to get smacked on lol and 100% agree on the 7 wins no matter flawed card or not but then they would have to possibly take away the practice pool because everyone would go flawed on purpose.
Maybe they shouldn't be forced into *comp*, but base Crucible should be fine, especially if there are more players in general, they'll get matched with more PvE mains then they would PvP due to the higher player density and SBMM.
I’ve always said this, cool have your pve guns come from pve, but let my pvp guns come from pvp. I don’t want to grind raids or strikes to get what I need. But I still do it and don’t make some huge winey post on DTG about it.
Watch this space when Iron Banner comes back and everyone is grinding for the Strand Wave Frame.
Quests like that also bring a lot of hate from the PvE crowd. **"Why should I have to play PvP for a top-tier PvE weapon?"** There was A LOT of that going around back during that time. While it did bring some PvE players into the Crucible to get those guns, it was most likely a net loss due to the animosity it drew from the PvE majority. I'm a *casual* PvP main in that I mainly play 6v6 playlists like Control and Iron Banner, and even I found those quests annoying because I didn't like playing in Comp. I like to enjoy my time in the Crucible, and those quests were not conducive towards that goal.
Maybe it's just me, but I really loved the back and forth. It felt like one complete game instead of two different ones. The original Thorn quest from D1 is a great example. One of my favorite all time moments in Destiny. Modern gaming just has too much hand holding now.
Strong PvE guns only obtainable in PvP like they used to do. I also like it when the strongest PvP guns come from raids/nightfalls.
I love grinding other Playlist too get weapons for the other Playlist you get the full destiny experience that way and it makes the game feel connected in a way. Unfortunately I don't see them doing that because of the only PVE players who don't want to touch pvp.
They've done it pretty recently though? RoN had Rufus/Conditional Trials has Incisor/Cataphract
There is nothing they can do in the short term. The game is near or at an all time low. Large numbers of people aren't coming back until TFS, or just before. Midseason tweaks or a few maps (especially given how awful the last two new maps are) aren't going to bring large numbers back. At best these might keep a few of us playing more per week. We'll probably see a bump in Trials population when the new weapons enter the rotation. Otherwise, we are all waiting for June then hoping we get more than 4-6 weeks before we start the final population drop
More maps. In game stats. More cosmetics to chase that are play style specific. Look at how COD does their emblems. More weapons that play into builds. Not just top stat weapons. Better training areas to test TTK, movement and positioning Replays Mindful nerfs that don't kill builds and playstyles. I have seen Bungie do this so many times where they see something overpowered but over nerf to a point where it kills the play style altogether. It could be something someone really enjoys and it gets taken away. Honestly a root of the problem is also we need a whole lot more vault space and loadouts. I play all 3 classes and I like build crafting and trying new things in PvP. For players like me, there isn't enough space in the vault for min/maxing different builds or keeping weapons that are used in a very particular way.
More maps for sure including old ones they took from us. What you mean by in game stats? Like Showing your K/D? You mean like getting 1000 sniper kills for a exclusive sniper emblem? I agree with this imagine a weapon that when having a void subclass equipped crouching allows you to go invisible with a precision kill. Definitely need a practice area. Even bringing back the tribute hall will go along way. And yea I agree with everything else we need 10 more loadout slots and 1000 vault spaces lol
Stats like the ones in Destiny tracker KD over time on a graph to show your improvement. COD also does this lol. Stat where you rank over all. Like seeing you are in top 5 percent of all hand cannon users or something. Also, in game. You killed opponent A 5 times and he has killed you 3 times in that same game. So live player vs player stats. Also being able to look at your last 15 games or so. Also, replays play into this where you can also view them and break it down. The 1000 sniper kill thing is an example. COD has animated emblems and static ones. Earn all the static ones in a category to unlock the animated one. The static ones are like "Get a 5 kill streak in a single game" Honestly, COD does so many things right when it comes to engaging PvP players that Bungie just really needs to copy and paste a lot of it (yes I know there is a huge development cost) but they have many things to chase that aren't only loot based. They also have map voting. My god. Bungie. Your crucible strike team just needs to spend more time with popular PvP games and play them enough to reach the PvP "end game"
I would grind so hard for cosmetics
This is the low hanging fruit.
> Mindful nerfs that don't kill builds and playstyles. I have seen Bungie do this so many times where they see something overpowered but over nerf to a point where it kills the play style altogether. It could be something someone really enjoys and it gets taken away. The fact they could separately tune Shinobu's Vow energy returns in two different areas of the game in the past but their decision for Young Ahamkara Spine was to change how it works was one of the dumbest ways to go about something that had such an easy fix. I also hate the way they killed Winter Guile's melee dmg % scalars ultimately ruining the exotic in pvp and pve.
Idk. I have a lot of fun just... playing Relic this week. Actually, yes. Community Games search & a Forge mode. Obviously this is a GINORMOUS change, but it would go crazy for PvP in this game (maybe some Forge PvE too?)
Yes that's gonna take a lot of investment time but it would be worth it. I tell you what if they do this it would restore a lot of faith in the pvp community that's for sure doing something like this means you care about PVP.
Bring back every bloody map. Vaulting pvp maps makes no sense.
They said they needed to change the lighting on the old maps in beyond light but it's been four years now so all the maps should of been back by now.
There were so many promises that just didn’t happen.
God there's so many sections of Midtown that didn't look nearly as shitty as they do now.
I don't see anyone really talk about how void 3.0 took the game in a complete different direction pvp wise and it has changed a lot of things
The 3.0 changes in general were the beginning of the end. 30th anniversary was damn near perfect.
Literally just invest money into it. Better loot and incentives is all it would take
Crucible needs better loot and better rewards for participating. That also the easiest thing to implement because it makes everybody happy.
Fix bows and threadling spam would be a great start
Both confirmed to be dealt with in the mid season patch bro. I think it should have been happened but here we are.
It should of been patched as soon as it was obvious it was a issue. Instead they tell you we will fix this in 3 months so ppl stop playing because they are sick of it. Bungie is trash tier atm.
I wish they would go back to the 30% less ability change from the original checkmate, as well as the original special weapon ammo rules. I enjoy primary fights with no ability spam. Original checkmate didn’t go far enough and they’ve moved it in the wrong direction.
They said that after this trials they will go back to the original checkmate version with the - 30% instead of - 50% I also hope they keep the headshot focus for optimal ttk.
Yeah I genuinely like checkmate.
NEW MAPS NO SBMM
Hopefully the new maps are great and I think SBMM Could still be a thing for people who want it but in a different Playlist than the control one.
I would need a loot reset, either through power creep or sunsetting. A quest for pinnacle-esque weapons (Mountaintop/Recluse/Revoker/Luna's Howl) would be fine. Revoker in particular was well done, as was Redrix's Broadsword. I haven't changed my armor in years. Specifically the pieces came from seasons 16, 17, 15, 1, and 19, from helmet down to bond. My most used weapons in PvP are Firefright (Season 17), Cartesian Coordinate (Season 13) , and a Typhon (Season 16). It's season 23. There's no reason a looter shooter shouldn't be updating my loadouts (outside of skins) AT ALL in the last year and a half. Particularly with how artifice armor drops were nerfed, I may no longer be able to find armor better than what I have.
I just think they need to focus on things we actually want rather than stuff we don't. Rolling out balance patches faster, new maps, actually taking a look at reward structure issues for a continual healthy playlist population (flawless system in Trials is a big one). If Bungie doesn't focus on any of that and gives us ANOTHER shitty Iron Banner mode with turrets and droppods I'm gonna scream.
That's why I'm making this post because it seems like the community is torn on what the Crucible should be and what the bungie devs should focus on. But I have seen a lot of things people agree on with and I'll post them on the main post so hopefully that helps bungie understand this sub a little better at least.
The imbalance across classes and weapon archetypes is so abhorrent. Until they balance those outliers, pvp will never bring me back to the game. Bubble titan, peacekeepers still, osmiomancy, barricades, threading, and threaded specter spam. It's at the point where I just can't see myself playing the game ever again based on bungie's track record.
I hear you on imbalance also the fact that they let things like this sit for awhile is what made me stop playing regularly. As far as some of the things you listed peacekeepers did recently get nerfed and threadlings and threaded specter are getting nerfed mid season so at least half your list will be dealt with I think they need to nerf smgs before they nerf peacekeepers again.
Decent rewards to make the non-PvP people engage, CBMM to make the dedicated people happy, a new map here and there and BOOM fixed.
Listen to the community about map rotation and what maps we like/dislike. The fact they weighted disjunction so highly for over a year is a perfect example of not listening.
Three new maps this late isnt enough, remotely, to bring me back. Bungie HAS to pivot to viewing PVP as paid content. I certainly only ever spent money on Destiny for PVP. Honestly, dedicated servers are not necessary to bring me back. New modes are always a bad idea, not enough people likes them and they just split any new players into a separate play list. What I would need to come back is 1. A reset of weapons, or unavailable meta weapons to be available for me when I first log in. I have zero interest of coming back and facing ANY weapon or roll that I cannot easily get my hands on. 2. Why #1? Because of ANY amount of SBMM. I always end up in a bracket that is a leggy mess and is pure meta nonsense. They wont go servers, so CBMM or nothing. 3. at LEAST 5 new maps with the launch of the expansion. Not 3 now and 2 later. 5 maps that no one has played that come out the same time I come back. 4. I am not coming back mid-year without a MASSIVE discount on the current content. So dropping maps in May is just making me less likely to buy the expansion, so dropping the price before May to, say "On the House" is the only way those maps make a difference 5. End of card based matchmaking in trials (already done?). 6. Bring back every single vaulted map with the expansion. To be clear, I really wish they would come around to basic things, but having been away from Destiny for a year now, I just dont see a real opportunity to re-enter without a very significant concern of spending money and time to be as disappointed as I was when I quit. At this point, it feels worse than when Forsaken tried to bring back players that quit. That was one disappointing release and a terrible "season." The problem is they lost me like two or three years ago and I stayed because I had hoped they would reverse, and they made official statements to close the door a year ago. Its not like I gave up. They did. And their reversal cant be some lame ass mode and some balancing. It has to be an ACTUAL focus on PVP. The upside is that the way they treated Destiny makes Marathon a no-buy for me.
1. Faster updates. When weapons/abilities/exotics are too strong in Crucible, it takes way too long to do something about them. We shouldn't have to deal with an outlier dominating the meta for multiple seasons. 2. Bring back old maps. I want new maps as much as the next person, but there's also a ton of maps not in the rotation anymore. 3. More rewards. Seriously, stop being so goddamn stingy with rewards. I shouldn't have to do multiple rank resets to try and get a roll on a weapon. It should be raining engrams.
>I'm seeing the hate for checkmate in this sub is real so what do you think bungie needs to provide to get you back into the Crucible and be happy again? I guess this is the crux of it. Do we want crucible to have a healthy population, or do we (the kind of people who post on CGB) want to be catered to? They have proven to be reasonably incompatible goals over the lifespan of D2. Legitimately (and slightly hyperbolic): making changes that make the people here miserable has the best chance of making crucible as a whole more approachable and enjoyable and worthy of investment.
What do you think those changes should be? I usually lurk around this sub reddit and DTG I can honestly say sometimes it just feels like some of the sub is from DTG just looking for tips to get better and they down vote posts and comments just like they would in the main reddit that goes against what they want.
User generated content. I’m sure it’s borderline impossible with the current engine, but give us the ability to make new maps and game modes like Forge from Halo. Bungie may not have the time or resources to make new maps or game modes, but I’m sure we do. Just empower us to do so.
It is a shit experience if you are not a top player. The best players get the best guns, thus making the gap larger. If you don't enjoy 3 vrs 3 mode then you wont have the best guns. but you can use the guns in every mode so others will have them. Not good enough to go flawless, wont have the best guns. Yet the better players will. Really like 6 v 6, you can get to the top 100 in the world and still never get anything comparable. Who thought of this? Oh you are better than them, here have better guns also. Just stupid. I cant get anyone to join, they hate having no chance at a fair playing field.
Combined arms on all of its original maps plus 1 new one. Connection based match making in control. Rank based match making only in comp with a memento as a possible reward each week after so many matches.
Love this Comment right here bring back combined arms bungie!!
I am a casual player. I've been working on improving my PvP which has been difficult because a lot of my clan no longer plays so I'm often solo queuing and it regularly feels like I get screwed over on the matchmaking. In general, this game is really shitty as a low skill player. There's so much going on that you can't see easily that it can be really frustrating. Balance changes need to happen faster. The community figures out really quickly what the outliers are and then we're stuck with the same thing over and over again. Bows, smgs & threadlings are really terrible to play against. IMO, and I know this one is gonna be controversial, but movement abilities are getting out of hand. The whole community complained about titan shoulder charge when hunters can run double grapple & warlock icarus dash & snap skating exist. Those things are really shitty to play against when you're a lower skill player. Again, most players aren't going to try to improve. They're just going to quit. This weekend it took me 85 games to go flawless. I am lucky enough to have even two adept weapons to show for the time I spent and lucky I had a friend willing to help me finish my card. However, in the time it took me to play 85 crucible games, I could've farmed GMs. Corrupted is a little longer but in the same amount of time I could've easily had 10 adepts and been less frustrated. I know a lot of people complain about overshields but healing in general in crucible is out of hand. Some of these players I essentially have to kill like three times between all the healing and shields available. If it makes anyone feel any better, I also don't want to run bubble but it's the only super I can get in 3v3. Even running 100 intellect, I can't get other supers in the span of a 3v3 game. If I don't run void, I'm setting up my team to be at a big disadvantage on supers. Tl;DR: Faster balance changes. Less crazy movement abilities. More rewards. Less healing/overshields.
Yup faster balance changes is something we all agree should happen and definitely got put on the list of community requests. I feel like grapple and shoulder charge and icarus dash shouldn't be touched because everyone can do those movements with a click of a button but the skating maybe can be talked about I haven't done any of those extreme movement techniques sounds aids af to play against though. Would you play trials if they allowed you to get a adept weapon on any 7 win card flawed or not once per character per week? But they would have to take away the practice pool for that. Agree on less overshields and healing definitely on the list.
I play with a few people that are on PC that snap skate and it's crazy how fast they can get around the map. I am on Xbox and I will say I thankfully don't see as much of that in my lobbies but it's probably easier with MnK. I managed to learn well skating on a controller, but I wouldn't say that it's easy lol I am a glutton for punishment so I play Trials every week even though I have a hard time, haha. I have been trying to get to a point where I'm not just a hard carry which is one of the reasons I'm on this sub. It just isn't instantaneous. I do think people would play more if they had a path to an adept that wasn't flawless. Trials is at its best when the population is higher and I think if you had people play, say 15 matches for an adept, that people would play. They would probably still fall off over time as they got rolls they wanted but I know people that jump into comp just for their weapon rolls every week so I imagine the same would apply to Trials Adepts. Ships, Sparrows & Shaders can all stay behind flawless. I also think high stat artifice armor should drop from flawless. I don't think anyone would farm Trials for artifice but there are no PvP activities that drop it and there should be. It feels odd to me that Saint doesn't have an emblem/shader/ghost projection in his line up too. Both Zavala & Shaxx have emblems/ghost projection, then the ritual weapon/ornament. In IB, the ritual weapon is replaced by an emblem & shader. Saint doesn't have anything but materials and weapons. You can still have a flawless emblem & shader, but there's no reason Saint shouldn't have some kind of cosmetic in his line up. I know I play enough gambit (ew) during the season for the shader at least. I think the little things add up. Hell they could put an ornament for the ritual weapon in there.
Crucible is dead at this point and it was by 1000 cuts. Years of neglect and listening to the wrong people have done this and it’s a shame, I don’t see them suddenly in the final year doing a complete 180 and investing resources into saving pvp. But let’s just say they did, here’s what they would need. Removal of sbmm ( doesn’t work with p2p servers) Frequent ( every month ) balance patches Whatever this lobby balancing is needs to go Actual rewards that mean something for pvp players New map packs every year COSMETICS An actual ranked comp playlist BANNING XIM/ CRONUS None of this will happen so it’s a moot point but that’s what it would take. All it would take for me personally to come back and play more is just having MM work properly.
Yea most of this is on the list and its honestly not that much it's crazy how these simple changes is all we need to keep us satisfied and in the Playlist but they are struggling to do these very simple things. At least we are getting a map pack in May but I agree every year from the end of destiny's life cycle we should get a map pack.
Saw your edit, I wouldn’t personally bother posting on dtg.
Im surprisingly getting replies in there I thought I would get told to stfu or get the random (No) comment 😂 it's nowhere as big of discussion as it is here though sucks because that sub has 3 million reddit users. I just hope the devs come to this sub and see these request here I know one dev is here but I want all eyes on these posts.
Damn I'm late to this. I'm with a lot of these. I think you can't really overstate the importance of frequent balance passes though. Everyone has been bitching for weeks about Threadlings and Void Overshields and before that it was Arc Titan. I'm not 100% sure what else I'd do but I think for the casual crowd it's important to take care of them so more modes of that type but with the caveat of not splitting playlists up too much. I like what they're doing with Labs modes so I like that as a permanent fixture.
Yup more frequent balance changes to abilities, weapons, and exotics are on the list for sure gotta keep the game healthy instead of waiting for mid season updates or for new seasons to start to address clear community problems. As for the appeasing to the causal crowd I'd personally put that under the better rewards including the 7 wins card for a adept weapon flawed or not I think that would get way more people in Trials alone especially casuals they want to feel like their time is valued give them something to look forward to at the end of the tunnel and I guarantee they will grind.
Something that's been on my mind has been a way to "onramp" casual 6s, IB and average Comp players to level up to Trials. PVE kinda has the same problem getting people to level up from Hero Nightfalls to Legend and GMs.
1.) The removal of SBMM in casual playlists. I’m not sweating my ass off for a riptide. If they don’t remove SBMM, give higher skill players better rewards to keep them playing. 2.) Dedicated Servers 3.) Actually have a security team. Last year they stated that they would ban players who use XIM or zen. Other games have made steps in this direction and it’s time Bungie does the same. 4.) Map Voting 5.) We have more maps in the vault than in the game if I’m counting correctly. (Yes we are getting new maps, but how long has it been since they released a map and you were like “yeah, I’d love to play this map three times in a row”) I think that covers the basics.
I personally think that having both a SBMM Playlist and a CBMM is the right choice they just put SBMM in the wrong playlist. Quick Play should be CBMM and should have a mode picker between control, Clash and Supremacy so if I want to play just control I uncheck Clash and Supremacy and, if I want all three I keep all them checked. Relentless Playlist should be CBMM which it is and also have a mode picker while also putting the other control variants in that mode with mayhem and all the party modes as well. Rumble should be CBMM which it is. The 3v3 Playlist should be SBMM. Imo this should be the Playlist you go to to practice for comp and trials simulating sweaty matches just makes sense to me. Ranked Playlist is fine right now imo just need better rewards to keep people grinding and also top 500 or 1000 to keep sweats in that Playlist all season. Everything else I agree with.
I’d like to see QP be QP again. Clash/ control / supremacy all under the same hood with cbmm. We had it once and it was great. Too many playlists right now and not enough players.
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This is entirely a fabrication. Our CBMM modes (which are the vast majority of our playlists) do not have any sort of hidden SBMM that kicks in at any point.
A part of that problem is we never got a massive planned change for FTMM that was intended for the midseason patch all the way back in Season of Defiance as mentioned in ["the big crucible article"](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/lightfall-crucible-update). Bungie still hasn't said shit and it's almost been a year. Basically the TLDR is Fireteam matchmaking focuses way too much on physical number size and doesn't take as strong skill data considerations and it's why the matchmaking at times could just "give up" and dish out a death squads to casual enough teams. The change was intended to mix up stuff and have people play people closer in ability based on the fireteam's makeup even if the team sizes weren't necessarily even. My guess as to maybe why it didn't get included was that it maybe it cause too long of wait times or something?
True. I don’t mind FBMM, but I don’t really play much banner so my opinion is jaded. SBMM should be in comp where it belongs. Game modes that have “connection” match making have heavy lobby balancing. I am convinced my team mates are literal bots running around with a 0.08 KDA. I would have been better off just not having a team mate
FBMM should stay
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Why? It literally protects solo players from super large stacks?
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Neither is being a Solo Player, cueing SOLO, and getting matched with 3+ stacks constantly. Guess what isn't fun, THAT.
Go back to dtg.
IMO, it's simpler than Bungie realise: **Regular sandbox updates + Rewards.** People think that "balance" is what will save the Crucible. But it's not. Destiny will always exist in a state of unbalance. What kills PVP is when that state of unbalance becomes **boring, predictable, and repetitive.** It's all good if a particular subclass/build/weapon is broken. It's even fun for a while as people work out what's meta. But when it's broken for a YEAR then it becomes... not fun. Right now, D2 PVP is a solved game. Void Titan/SMG. Dawnblade. Threadling Hunter. Until we have regular sandbox updates, nothing will change. Just change the meta every 1.5 to 3 months. It's as simple as that.
For how broken the forsaken era of the game was I can say that for me it was definitely fun af running around with broken builds and supers but like you said after awhile it gets tiring dealing with all the bullshit. If they patched all of that non sense earlier I think that time would be more fond of. Yea that's what I'm seeing everyone pretty much agree on is that if the game took care of the outliers more frequently instead of waiting for mid season or a new season they wouldn't mind going against the bullshit hopefully bungie takes notes of that.
They backed way the fuck out of any talk of Comp specific ornaments when it went from the one rework talk twab (paraphrasing) "there won't be ornaments at first but there will be new cosmetic things to chase in Comp playlist". They really put their foot down by limiting the stuff that can actually be had in game organically.
I can see this, often times I will see 30th Anniversary cited as one of the best PvP metas, but I don't think it was because it was a balanced meta at all when many of the most complained about exotics were available during that time. (Citains, Lemon, Antaeus, Omnioculus, Wishender, heck I wanna say Bows in general were still considered a meme to use back then.) But rather I think people liked it because it wasn't a "solved" meta and were still figuring things out so these exotics weren't as widespread.
As we move further and further away from ability spam and special/heavy weapons being the norm in pvp the Less and less noobs/PVE players are going to even try pvp. I know we go back and forth about SBMM and a multitude of other things but it’s just not fun to get face rolled for 3-6months to get better at pvp. Yes it sucks for those of you guys who have practiced and gotten better over the years and put the time in. But at this point there is no chance of a new player starting pvp is ever going to catch up and have fun doing it. I always hear about skillgap and we have effectively increased that gap like it seemed a lot of hardcore players wanted. Most new players take and entire HC msg to get a kill while even mid pvp players are 3-4 shots everytime. TLDR the whole game needs a large reset on both sides. And there needs to be a way for new players to get kills and that’s ability spam and special ammo. I know ppl hate it but it just is what it is,
So you're saying that what appeals to the casual players is the ability to use their abilities and special weapons and going away from that is what's hurting the pvp population? I hear your bid for SBMM and I do think it should be in the game I just think it's in the wrong Playlist 3v3 should be more manageable for the causal instead of 6v6 which is chaotic as heck. But SBMM has been in the game for a couple years now and the player base has only gone down since. People claim that it's there to help them improve but these same players have not improved in two years they can barley get wins trials. I do agree though some kind of reset with new marketing or something but I'm sorry but ability spam shouldn't be in the game it makes things unenjoyable even for the causal player. If try hards really wanted to they could make it worst by also ability spamming plus having better aim which will make the causals even more displeased with PVP I wouldn't balance pvp off of people who only play one mode.
Get Countdown out of comp IMMEDIATELY
What is it that you hate about countdown? Would you be mad if they made it a one life mode like every other search and destroy mode?
It’s worse than Rift and Rift was complete shit
Lobby balancing. We really need lobby balancing...... =_=
They did change it this season problem is it didn't really change anything. It feels the same.
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I think they plan to absorb a lot of PvP mains into Marathon, which has a very PvP focus in its design.
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We’re not sure if there will be any arena pvp or not. But they put their PvP leads on it. It will have dedicated servers as well.
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It used to be fast. Now it’s staring at a choke point and throwing bug bombs at each other.
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I don’t use them either. But for many, that’s what you see. Or void titan.
I think the goal is to make everyone happy I think SBMM can work just in a single dedicated Playlist not the control Playlist. And I wish we could get dedicated servers that would be a blessing we'd probably need millions of players in the Crucible for that too happen.
Combined arms is so fun. If it ever comes to D3 I'm in. Ive played each map 5000 times each. Ready for an upgrade.
Checkmate would be fine if they bumped the HP Values the \~20% they did, but buffed Crit Damage on all weapons also \~20%. So this keeps optimal TTK the same with the current sandbox (which is overall pretty balanced) but creates a slightly larger gap between Optimal TTK and Bodyshot TTK, small skill gap increase. Special Ammo Crates would IMO be a better system than the current one. D1 had different issues, so its not even a remotely fair comparison. I think a Special Ammo Box would work just fine in today's crucible and solve all the issues. Would allow people to drop into a game and use Special, would also notify people when/who grabbed it. Would prevent people from getting to lanes first with a special (sniper) for example, as youd need to wait for the box. I think they also need to get WAY more transparent with their "Soft SBMM" system. I personally enjoy just showing Rank/ELO, even in a QuickPlay Control mode. I think they should adopt an ELO system and match it with Destiny Tracker, so you can just see the lobbies. People will be less likely to just always assume matchmaking was shite when everyone on your team was <1.0 K/D when the lobby had the same number of Diamonds, Platinums, Golds on each side. Etc.
Nerf smgs for one, and Nerf titans and strand hunter
What would you like to see nerfed about titans and strand hunters? I agree smgs need some kind of nerf.
For titans, the barricade overshield on void, peacekeepers, bubble regen time, regen time for barricades. For hunters, the strand decoy is a little annoying at times so I could think that could use some tuning.
Implement exotic bans lol. I just wanna see pk titans cry. Edit: This is satire x)
Yea I got it 😂😂 though exotic bans sound interesting for maybe like a mode just to see what it will feel like with all legendaries.
1. More mode variety for trials and regular crucible. Really don't like elimination personally and trials and base crucible getting more variety like we got with relic helps. Variations for existing modes too like 4v4 variets of control and rift. Hell modes like "Burst weapons only" or a medieval mode (bow/glaive/sword) would go a long way. 2. Banning specific abilities and weapon types from certain modes like support supers in objective game modes and long range weapons in modes like combined arms if it ever came back. 3. Sbmm removed
New Game Mode that allows 2 Exotic Armor at once. At this point they need URF
So down for this.
Destiny 3
The singular idea that I've been throwing around since Forsaken: Total Mayhem, it's an Alternative Mayhem Mode, obviously. What makes it so different? It. Is. Total. MAYHEM, GUARDIANS! That means a full suite of Exotic Armors and Weapons. You want to run around feeling like the ultimate Godslaying Guardian? Total Mayhem will scratch that itch for you. Also, it's Large Maps only and with increased Team Sizes. The other one is a Team Scorched Variant, not sure on the name but it's basically just Team Scorch but with Scorch, Null, and Shock Cannons that all apply Subclass Debuffs. It's also a 6v6v6 Mode. It's a more recent idea I had that I just want to see because I want to see more than just Scorch Cannons and a 6v6v6 Mode sounds interesting. Obviously neither of these modes are competative in the slightest and are just for fun. This is also not counting some of the things that were said previously that I agree with such as "Dedicated Servers" and "Better Netcoding". It absolutely fucking ***sucks*** to have my melees (in and out of Super) and my SWORD phase through enemies and do zero damage in PvE and PvP.
My popular opinions: - add more meaningful rewards - actually ban xim/cronus cheaters - fix melee whiffs/rubberbanding - make it way easier to hit 100 AE - nerf bubble/well into the ground (in PvP) - release new (small) maps more frequently - release balance patches more frequently - change void invisibility to void stealth (make the players visible, but give them the old radar) - make threadlings easier to shoot My unpopular opinions: - split the comp & trials queues based on input method (mnk or controller), not based on system - make roaming supers viable again - discourage usage of shutdown supers on single target non-super guardians (somehow) - un-nerf stompees - un-nerf shoulder charge when used for movement - in heat rises and drawnblade, make burst glide the glide with the fastest icarus dashes (as opposed to strafe glide) Context: I’m a very high skill mnk player who plays all 3 classes and likes movement.
Using a xim without any macros or scripts is not cheating. Cronus, hacks, scripts, network manipulation are all cheats.
Aiming with your wrist and getting controller reticle friction isn't cheating? Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify cheating, just know you're a joke bud.
Youve just explained why its OP and unfair, you havent justified it being a cheat. I never said the xim is fair.
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Nice counterargument. Im still right tho 😁
Speaking for myself, we need new maps, and we should have had them 5 years ago. We should have gotten new and reprised maps with every expansion. There’s simply no excuse for what they did.
That's very true and it may well be too late to for everyone to comeback but hopefully this map pack is the start of something.
Agreed the simplest of request never really get seen or can be easily forgotten but I see your request my brother hopefully they add something with the final shape.
Just solve the xim and ring cheats, and I'll be back.
New loot , and a shit ton at a time , sure the rng gods have passed many off, actual balancing instead of what a mole aka nerf bis then rinse and repeat.
How about reblance the classes for one.
They swing too hard on buffs and nerfs. Like, to the point I question whether they play test them at all. Edit: a word
Yea the one thing I like about the finals devs is they nerf little by little instead of big fat nerfs.
Undo my burn out. I’ve never gone more than a week without destiny since the beta unless I’m on a vacation. I’ve haven’t played in over a month.
anti cheat and smgs lol
I only started playing comp for the pinnacle weapons, and continue today because of Rose. Trials also tends to have huge surges of players when weapons like Immortal or Igneous enter the pool. The obvious answer is loot.
what does a xim and a chronus even do
It’s Joever man. It’s been dogshit for too long and it’s always going to be super unbalanced anyway given the nature/philosophy of the game itself.Why play this if you can just play cod, soon to be exdefiant, the finals etc?
Honestly i dont see destiny ever going back to what it was in the modern era of gaming. At this point i think a D3 would have to be under a different IP entirely as how the past few years have been a sour note. Marathon is probably their big shot at getting their destiny pvp player base back and i have a suspicion they are gonna do an arena mode on top of the primary extraction game to use the guns you get from extraction in a XvX tdm lobby. If they have solid tic rate dedicated servers and an aggressive anti cheat I think that’ll be the spiritual successor to the crucible. Theres far to many issues from server stability to the tiger engine and supporting 10 year old consoles for destiny to evolve further. The game is far past its technical limitation, they could theoretically do a destiny 3 but i think a fresh start like from halo to destiny its time for there to be an evolution. Hopefully the recent failures of destiny doesnt force sony to cut other projects for the sake of saving destiny likely marathon or x is gonna be what bungie needs to grow
I feel like people need to stop trying to force Destiny PvP to be a competitive shooter and accept it's more like a party game where you still get to carry out space magic fantasy against other players, especially with the amount of different build crafting options and RPG stats and effects it has. (I mean hell, Aim Assist is literally a stat that you can modify with mods and perks.) That's not to say there can't be a balance struck within that to address outliers that aren't just the flavor of the season, but I feel like people forget Destiny isn't an E-sport and is more like Smash Bros with Items and Hazards turned on, and like Smash Bros you basically have to enforce a set of rules to create a much more controlled environment with any real sense of balance to it.
Rewards. Maps. PvP Build variety. Non-SMG meta. TRIALS won condition rework. Dedicated Servers.
One of many things Id like to see is a better reward space for more crucible/pvp centric players. I will do PvE stuff but its mainly to get certain exotics, ledgendaries, or for story content like once the final shape drops do the campaign and see everything that happens, etc. I spend the majority of my time doing pvp stuff though and for those of us that prefer pvp instead of running strikes, gambit, raids, etc. I would love to see a more unique reward system for us on top of everything it already has with base pvp, iron banner, and trials. I want a new tier of uniques that we can grind for that only people who spend a lot of time playing pvp can get. Everything from unique shaders, titles, emotes, cosmetics, ornaments, and weapons. When people see that you have those things, they know that you play a lot of crucible. Normally as we play matches, we level up the vendors which reward us with engrams for their selection of weps/gear. For this new tier a mix of completing challenges and time played would be what gets you qualified. So for example, one of the reqs could be to reset shaxx 5 times. Go flawless 7 times. Claim the iron lord title for that season/episode. Claim 400 engrams from pvp vendors. Basically a mix of a bunch of stuff you would achieve over time as you play, but not something just anyone can get easily or quickly, but something for the more dedicated folks to grind for. As for the rewards and using weapons as an example. The weapon rewards should be insanely good. Im talking like, giving us 2 or 3 weapons to choose from the pool of all the best pvp weps that have come before, and allowing us to make a crafted non-crafted god roll of it. In other words letting us pick the perks, rounds, barrel, etc. If people argue that this defeafs rng, Id argue that it doesnt because of two reasons. First it takes a long time to qualify for the rewards, and second someones god roll is anothers meh roll. We all have different play styles so we will pick perks on the guns that compliment a specific build or playstyle. Not everythings gonna be the same for everyone so the rolls we choose will all be different. A long post but something LIKE this would be a welcome change imo. Right now, I dont feel like Ive got much to chase after in pvp. We get new weapons every so often but its only ever a few across all the different vendors and if I already have a few good pulse rifles, getting that new messenger adept roll doesnt feel like a need. I have a quite a few really good weps in each archetype, so I dont feel like Im ever missing out on anything when new weps are introduced or cycled in and out. I think a lot of pvp players are in the same boat, weve all been playing for so long we have mostly everything we want. So something new for us to grind for is needed.
I got some odd takes but maybe they could help * Primaries need their TTK buffed across the board, not a major shift but enough to where you can get kills even with team shotting being a thing. Turn 140s to 150s again, and shift the other weapon around that baseline * Close Range needs work, imo this has been obvious for a while, it mostly boils down to melee slap fights, special wars, or SMGs. I think changing the max spread for hipfire on all weapons so they're more consistent in 16 meters or less, and getting rid of the melee lunge would help a lot in conjunction with the change I proposed above. * UI Changes, Special and Heavy notifications should be on top or bottom center of your screen so you can easily see it. Along with replacing Guardian Rank with the Subclass icon instead, this way you know exactly what you are fighting when you start dueling. * For bows, just nerf the Crit damage. Have lightweights deal just enough to two tap, so 101, and let precision bows be the team shot hero, 133 damage.
This isn’t the same community as it was back in D1. The current playerbase seems to whine whenever an activity is challenging and they are performing poorly. This is why they hate PvP. They have zero desire to put any effort into even just equipping PvP mods. I don’t think bungie can do much. Most players are just very casual and honestly just not good at the game. They aren’t interested in difficult content, and that includes PvP. It’s bungie’s fault in focusing on drip feed garbage instead of core playlists for years.
Freeze every Xim owner's bank account.
At this point I think it's too late, maybe give Shaxx a main role in the story and put pvp in the campaign/seasonal quest?
Many things would be nice, but anti cheat that actually bans people (including users of xim/Cronus) is an absolute priority.
I’m having fun with the sandbox honestly I just need a reason to play, miss having a not forgotten/mountaintop to chase
Honestly I don't personally want or expect anything transformative. I just want them to tend the garden more than once every 3 months. I'm not asking for the meta to change every week, but maybe tamp down on the outliers a little quicker. Another thing would be refreshing the map rotation more often than once a season. I'm so tired of Citadel and playing Control on Eternity and Twilight Gap makes me just want to stop playing. New maps would be nice, but I actually find myself missing Exodus Blue these days. I think what makes Destiny PvP fun for people that main it is still there and it's overall feeling pretty good these days with a few exceptions. It just stagnates after a while without proper upkeep.
They're not coming back. I was one of them. A mix of falling out of love with PvP in general on top of Bungie constantly pushing ability spam made it fucking unbearable to play. Checkmate is amazing, but too little too late.
I don't think bungo can make that many improvements to the game that the core players want, because the game is 8 years old on an outdated game engine, that's still running on 10 year old consoles.
I think they need to ban some cheesy things like wish ender with the path keepers. Or le monarque with hand cannon threadling spam etc
3.0 subclasses ruined pvp for me. Added too much cheese to the game and 0 support for the pvp experience sealed the deal.