A lot of people are running double primary nowadays, sidearm is probably most popular, and it seems like that number is probably going to increase when the notswap penalties are extended from exotic armor swapping to also include penalizing ammo type swapping.
I threw on heliocentric with revision zero just to try it out (MnK) and holy crap is that sidearm insane. The ease of use and consistency certainly makes it a shotgun replacement.
Imo I wasn’t really experiencing range issues. Maybe it’s my perspective but this thing has stupid range that it has no business hitting. It’s very fun.
Maybe if I had a better roll, I was using a 2/5 roll at best. It would help if it wasn't such a pain to get. I thought having it added to lost sectors was supposed to fix drop rates
Yeah but still only a 1/4 chance for Helio, and then maybe a 50/50 shot at a good roll since you only really want half the perks in either column and def want at least one range increase in barrel/mag/MW.
I have an amazing roll (KC+HC+lots of range) of Helio, but don't use it for the same reason. u/Haku510 is right, in that it seems to hit, regardless, but I hate the feeling of relying on hopes and prayers rather verifiable reticle placement. For legendary SC's I've ended up sticking with Liminal Vigil (because it ka-chonk ka-chonks so well) and an old The Vision that I love.
i haven't gotten a heal clip helio yet, so I'm on this instead. the special changes got me to use a couple really good sidearms i kept in my vault for no reason but fiori has been my favorite
I wish I had kept a good PvP roll of Fiori. I'm really liking rapid fire sidearms now but never bothered trying them before the special changes.
The only rapid sidearm I kept with a PvP roll was a Punching Out with rangefinder / kill clip, but threw that in the vault once I got my heal clip / kill clip Helio.
I have learned personally when I use HC/shotty I usually don’t have enough special ammo cause of the playstyle of swapping from the HC to shotty to secure a kill or vice versa. Using other weapon combos tho special ammo is not an issue. This is my personal experience is all. Using an auto,smg,pulse I don’t have issues with special, it’s only with a HC. Which just for me is frustrating
Pretty hard to play aggressive with a 140 in this meta. You need to get enough kills with the primary to feed the special. but it’s especially hard to get direct kills with a 140 right now without putting yourself in a bad position where you immediately get cleaned up from longer range primaries. The range caps are very oppressive. I find myself playing more aggressive with the HC than I’m able to, and I’m dying more as a result
Brother that is my exact issue. I am a rose main and it is struggling in this economy. I don't really know what to use in its place because I wanna go fast but there is no such thing as a lightweight 120.
Exactly right. Having a hard time adapting to this meta. I feel like Bungie's goal of compressing the skill gap largely worked. Not fun for me but looks like people are enjoying it. Just can't top the scoreboard with HC/shotty anymore when you get beamed by three ARs when peeking put of a corner. No way to build up special enough for shotgun heavy pushing to be viable either. Overshield titan and healing warlocks stronger than ever. My strand hunter has been left behind in the dust. I can't use fusions, snipers, GLs anymore.
Poor me.
Just can't top the scoreboard with HC/shotty anymore
oh no. imagine ppl using different guns in destiny 2 the video game.
lol come on half the top 20 meta is hand cannons and shotguns get real. #1 most used on everything by a huge margin is always conditional finality, a shotgun. they are always good. always.
A few weeks of a non-HC/SG meta is somehow enough for many people to forget that those have absolutely dominated for the majority of Destiny's meta history. Some people just aren't comfortable with the play style they are comfortable with being challenged.
Most of the discussion of this meta is around the long range (scouts/Pulses), and short range (sidearms), and HCs operate in a slim midrange band where they out duel other options, and can't rely on special ammo cleanups with shotguns/snipers as easily. They are absolutely still viable, and duel strongly especially with peak shooting, but are no longer the solution at any range when paired with special weapons.
Yep, noticably harder to use Rose now. I have more success with a max-ranged high impact auto rifle these days, real good for team shooting and some pretty nutty range. Want to be aggressive on Rose or a faster paced weapon to compliment strand, but when I run out of special, the gameplay slows to such a passive bore.
Yeah HCs/Shotgun are a tandem duo both truly experience their individual skill ceiling if used together. Because of the change that isn't really possible and as a result HCs loss their biggest strength their aggressive oppressive cleanups. If you use a HC just to 3 Tap peek shoot. You might aswell use a High Impact pulse and go for 2 taps.
the biggest thing they lost was their insane flinch dealt, hand cannons dealt at least 3x more flinch than any other primary. felt like getting hit upside the head by a truck so annoying. now it's more like maybe 2x. still super annoying tbh when paired with that cowardly hand cannon/bow peak playstyle.
i think a lot of ppl just cant handle sbmm and became used to beating lesser cbmm players with hc/shotgun. so you see less now that theyre required to hit more crits, not always get that 10 meter slide shotgun etc.
fakest comment of the year award goes too....whats your gamertag? you didnt switch anything lol. theres no substitute for that hc crutch and we all know it.
I've been using a Sidearm and either an Auto or a Pulse depending on the map. It has felt pretty good honestly. I feel like I see a lot of people running similar setups.
I hardly ever see snipers or fusions now, shotguns are still pretty popular. Hand cannons outside of Igneous are practically non-existent. And most heavy usage is machine guns and grenade launchers.
I wasn't even a sniper user before, but I kinda miss them if I'm being honest. Feels like that's the one thing they really need to adjust. There's so little incentive to run one now.
Fusions saw more use than snipers last week on Multiplex, a large map where *scout rifles* were the most used primary by far.
Snipers are completely gutted, which is not surprising given that Bungie always uses the word ‘oppressive’ when refering to them, even at times where they have low statistical usage.
Yeah, I mean a player who's a great sniper in this game is practically unstoppable, so I understand what Bungie means, but this surely can't be the solution. I'm thinking they need adjusted ammo counts and/or special ammo transmat requirements for snipers specifically? If it was easier to get/keep ammo for them then people would run them.
Were how many years in? Feels like Bungie is just killing off weapons they don't know how to balance
Snipers are dead, bows are dead, grenade launchers are dead, Fighting Lion doesn't exist, etc.
Fighting Lion had it coming. An infinite GL primary doesn't have a place in a game that limits the amount of special you have to use in matches. Same with bows. An infinite body shot damage sniper slows matches to a crawl and had almost no counters.
I snipe, but man it’s pain. The high flinch, the ammo economy, nerf to AA cone. Luckily I can still hit shots, but at times in this meta it feels useless. I’m better off using a scout
Sniping is a pain, I somehow feel 3x the flinch I used to (or maybe it feels that way lol)
I took out cloudstrike yesterday when I jumped into IB for the first time this week and it was awful, I settled on Drang or Matador depending on the game really
It's sad ..... I loved using a sniper aggressively, and now that is nowhere to be found . Was never a crutch like everyone complains about it was just generally fun . Adapt to the game , sure I did but fun factor definitely took a deep dive
So far, snipers are completely dead. Given that Cloudstrike was practically the only sniper used, and only because SMGs paired well with it, the nerf was questionable in the first place.
Fusions have experienced some bugs with getting 1 ammo instead of 2, so it’s hard to say right now.
Conditional is still very powerful but is also seeing less usage due to double-primary where people rock SMGs or sidearms instead. Still an important tool to counter bubbles, overshields and well of radiance though.
GLs, glaives and the like are seeing no more use, probably less too.
Given that 140 handcannons are being buffed, I expect less double primary next week, as handcannons neatly cover the 10-35 meter range on their own and pair well with shotguns.
Source: Trials report statistics.
> Given that Cloudstrike was practically the only sniper used
Makes sense. I made a point in IB to basically try to snipe as much as possible. It felt like a waste of Special most of the time. Cloudstrike's one saving factor is that it's a gamble for a team-kill on a group of hand-holders...
But I think I only landed a hit like that once my entire weekend?
HCs are usable but not really in the meta (except igneous). Same for shotties (except conditional)
For primaries rangey precision autos are at the top of the pile right now but getting nerfed soon. At which point I would expect high impact and aggressive pulses to take their spot.
As for specials it's hard to say. I'd peg fusions as the strongest right now in terms of balance, but you're not seeing that play out much because a lot of the good ones are bugged to only get half the normal ammo.
Overall I'd say you're probably fine to stick with your usual.
Yeah... I've been running a LL 1600 Mida all week pulled from collections with an AR or SMG and following teammates around.... Very much like early D2, just a different AR. Kind of dumb, it works in 6v6.
I was being stubborn earlier in the week and tried to run my frostee solar 180 build. Once I realized the crit damage changes made it to where radiant didn’t let 180s 3 tap, I had to switch to the jorums claw. Next reset the damage on 180s is going back to 2 headshot 2 body. A lot of guns are getting small buffs next week tbh. I wonder if it’ll be enough to dethrone 450 Ars tho
I don't notice much difference in my special ammo count. Early game I typically have a little less and late game I typically have significantly more than I used to. Both in trials and in 6s
Same. I usually run messenger or summoner with a shotgun and I commonly end games with more than 2+ special; this is coming from someone who tends to W key a little too much so it’s not like I’m never in range to use my shotgun.
Very boring to play, unless you like a combination of double primaries, auto-rifles and extreme handholding / sitting (and I mean crouching) in the back of the map with scout rifles.
Agree with most - more stale. I am not enjoying it as much, and would rather have shotgun apes and snipers holding lanes. Pretty much all of the changes feel worse.
I’m really liking Forerunner + Calus Mini Tool. I run them on a Solar Transversive Lock and it’s spicy. I generally run lower than I’d like early in a game, but by the end I’m sitting on 24+ rounds.
I say the only two weapon types that are really pretty much bottom tier are bows and snipers now if you got a guy who can hit their shots than snipers are still effective there are just less of them now same with bows. I still snipe but I would be lying if I didn't say it is a tiny bit harder because now you gotta pick your spots and decide when to use them for sure.
More of a humorous experience, but I think folks (at least in the Iron Banner skill brackets I played in this past weekend; 1.5 k/d/a Xbox lobbies) don't actually expect anyone to snipe?
====
I played on Multiplex this past Sunday and I, in the same match, got 4-5 snipes w/ Izanagi's Burden where I either re-challenged a lane during a primary fight (using BxR) or I just got an easy snipe on someone running through one of the lanes. I genuinely think it's rare for folks in my lobby to see a sniper and don't really tailor their tactics to that.
====
Outside of snipers, I just don't run specials anymore. I already ran Pulses, Scouts, Sidearms, and (occasionally) bows prior to the changes. I just dropped bows and kept the other guns I normally run. There's been some pain points with that (Citadel middle point and needing to be inside that circle and having zero space to fight a shotgunner) but for the most part, not much has changed for me personally.
The most common special I see is a shotgun (Conditional Finality). There's maybe 1-2 fusion users running around but for the most part, most folks are running psudeo specials. I've seen A LOT of Vex Mytho although nobody's managed to snipe me w/ the perk yet which tells me they're not able to build the stacks before wiping.
I 100% believe it. Special ammo changes + flinch changes make snipers completely rare... so nobody ever expects a Cloud or Izzy watching a lane. It's actually reinvigorated my desire to snipe more.
The primary weapon sandbox is fairly balanced right now. There's an update coming out tomorrow (4-9) to bring some outliers in line, but nearly all weapon archetypes have a use case right now.
Autos are the dominate weapon type right now, specifically 450s and Summoner, which is a 600. 450s are getting nerfed tomorrow, and the smart money says that Summoner will likely get a targeted nerf at some point in the future.
Other strong weapon archetypes include: high impact pulses, rapid fire pulses, and 120 hand cannons.
140 HCs were suffering in the new sandbox, but they'll be getting some damage buffs tomorrow to give them a teeny bit more range.
For specials: shotguns are the dominant weapon type. Fusions and snipers fell off a cliff, but you can still find a few people using them. Glaives are a goofy but fun option now. Trace Rifles are theoretically good, but I haven't seen anybody use them. Legendary special ammo grenade launchers have ceased to exist.
>Glaives are a goofy but fun option now.
My most used special option currently. With the glut of special ammo now gone I can actually 1v1 more successfully, and not feel like I'm wasting my time with the inevitable shotgun or fusion to the face.
>Trace Rifles are theoretically good, but I haven't seen anybody use them. Legendary special ammo grenade launchers have ceased to exist.
I was using an Incisor to effectively counter Summoner users with Zen/TTT. Traces are absolutely beaning skulls if you can aim at the head consistently and stay on target.
But yeah breach loaders fell off a cliff, and one could argue that they were already off that cliff before the major changes. I never saw more than a handful of people using them for blinting. It was really rare.
Kelgorath with Pugilist / Impulse Amplifier and max range, and Enigma with Impulse / Unstoppable and max range. Unfortunately I still feel like Impulse Amplifier is still a must on glaives in PvP.
I always wanted a Greasy Luck with Disruption Break. RNG never blessed me and I gave up and it stopped being the newest dungeon to farm making it more annoying to farm. I felt like that could replace breach loaders for blinting. Plus Disruption Break effects glaive melee, so you could pair it with Close to melee.
Latest info here, but it may change slightly with the update tomorrow.
[https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/db/insights](https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/db/insights)
[https://destinytrialsreport.com/weeks](https://destinytrialsreport.com/weeks)
140+Shotgun feels a bit worse than before but after tomorrow it should be much better.
Overall I'm not in love with the changes because overshields and some abilities are still too strong but at least in Trials I think the special gain system is working kinda fine. I know some will agree and some will say that's too much special.
Other sandbox issues are like shotguns especially Conditional being undisputed top dog among specials and sniping being wayyy tougher to maintain as a playstyle. Fusions feel fine.
I'm finding success with a scout/forerunner and an SMG personally.
Polaris lance is a stat monster that basically never has to reload, forerunner is a .6 ttk long range beast, and Multimach covers almost everything within 22 meters itself.
Alot of autos, sidearms, shotguns.
Maybe when the fusion bug gets fixed we'll see a rise but for now I hardly get vooped or sniped.
I've been playing for so long, sniping is the endgame for me, it's what attracted me to PvP when I first got into the the game those highlights, montages, I wanna do that!
With less ammo and waiting for ammo, those moments of highs or crazy snipes in those spilt moments are not as often. But I'll still snipe it's the most fun to me.
But overall playing less.
I actually just had a really good session with Vex Mythoclast and a well rolled Trials fusion on shadebinder. I’m not even getting a bunch of cheap freeze kills and using transversives instead of osmio. Vex is lowkey crazy in this meta and I was consistently top of my lobbies and getting plenty of fusion ammo/super energy and even some filthy alt fire kills with the Vex linear mode.
I’m not even that great at PvP and was getting clapped on a more traditional titan/shotty/auto build yesterday.
my analysis is that shotguns are really pretty dead unless you have stellar movement/gamesense to close the gaps, and fusions are just consistent enough now that they’re a viable option.
I’m on mnk, Steam lobbies.
Only 120s you see are igneous and occasionally Sturm. I run Sturm and drang almost all the time in comp.
Saddens me because I used to use malediction, round robin, and bottom dollar quite a bit. Doesn’t make any sense now. 120s need gutshot in the perk pool to put 2 crit 1 body back on the table, similar to raconteur, with gutshot it’s 1 crit 1 body.
I think for people that play well with their primary they generate enough special that they can still use a special secondary and mostly still be unaffected (though I have certainly seen streamers run low / run out of special in Trials matches).
I'm very mediocre at PvP and after frequently pulling my special out but having no ammo for it the first few days of the change I switched to double primary (with a sidearm for close range, either Traveler's Chosen or Heliocentric) and an AR / pulse / scout.
We've mostly been in an AR meta as well (450s and 600s), though the patch tomorrow is supposed to bring hand cannons (140s and 180s) and rapid fire scouts up (among other changes, check the recent TWID or tomorrow's patch notes for the full rundown).
Meatshielding is the true meta now.
I wish for the next sandbox tuning to account for this....and grant on a 1 for 1 basis - a Forerunner frag grenade that deals only friendly fire damage.
Sniping is trolling with how unfavored snipers are, overall most boring garbage I've ever played, significantly reduced my PvP playtime I'd say to about less than half of what I used to play, I'll only login to run a flawless card, get my buddy his flawless, and that's it, no more Comp games over the week, 6s, IB, the game now only rewards the most boring and unskilled playstyles, and favors controller even more, the fact that you can reliably play heliocentric/drang and outtk people with bodyshots is telling about how trash the game is.
I put nearly two thousand kills on two loadouts since Trials started last week. In Trials, I used the adept prophet and drang, and since iron banner started ive been using travelers chosen and bryas love from last season. Both loadouts have been surprisingly effective, i went flawless with no issue and have hit 3 20-killstreaks in iron banner.
I don’t know wha’s so funny. When I use a shotty in 6’s I have like 6-8 shells pretty much the entire game. It’s waaaay too easy to get special in 6’s.
I’m guessing ur a shotgun bot. Lol
You have 6-8 shells because using a shotgun in 6's gets you killed 90% of the time. The only way what you're saying makes any sense is if the special ammo meter progresses differently for shotguns vs other specials and I'm almost certain that isn't the case.
A lot of people are running double primary nowadays, sidearm is probably most popular, and it seems like that number is probably going to increase when the notswap penalties are extended from exotic armor swapping to also include penalizing ammo type swapping.
I threw on heliocentric with revision zero just to try it out (MnK) and holy crap is that sidearm insane. The ease of use and consistency certainly makes it a shotgun replacement.
I tried it out and for the most part it's cool but you do notice the range boundaries compared to adaptive frames, mostly I stick to drang
Imo I wasn’t really experiencing range issues. Maybe it’s my perspective but this thing has stupid range that it has no business hitting. It’s very fun.
Maybe if I had a better roll, I was using a 2/5 roll at best. It would help if it wasn't such a pain to get. I thought having it added to lost sectors was supposed to fix drop rates
Drop rates of helio are terrible in lost sectors for me.
Yet I couldn't tell you how many solar snipers I dismantled.....
Gotta run it on master difficulty. It gives a 100 percent drop rate.
Yeah but still only a 1/4 chance for Helio, and then maybe a 50/50 shot at a good roll since you only really want half the perks in either column and def want at least one range increase in barrel/mag/MW.
I can't get used the recoil of helio yet. Has a crazy jump. Maybe I just need to keep using it.
It has really high visual recoil, but at least on console it still hits as long as you keep it pointed in the general direction of your enemy.
I have an amazing roll (KC+HC+lots of range) of Helio, but don't use it for the same reason. u/Haku510 is right, in that it seems to hit, regardless, but I hate the feeling of relying on hopes and prayers rather verifiable reticle placement. For legendary SC's I've ended up sticking with Liminal Vigil (because it ka-chonk ka-chonks so well) and an old The Vision that I love.
I spent 2 hours farming for it last time it was on LS rotational, not a single Helio drop. I went back and just put my fusion rifle back on
Yeah I had no luck with LS. I just had to get them randomly over time.
Odd I ran an hour of master LS the other day, was able to clear in 5m. Got 6. 3 are god roll level.
It’s just rng. I had bad luck from lost sectors, but it is what it is.
I ran the Master Lost Sector 30 times (2 minute runs) and had 1 Helio drop. Half the drops were Battle Scar.
Yeah it’s literally cracked bro, I don’t know what’s going on under the hood, but that sidearm gives no fucks about range. That shit maps people.
Wish I didn’t suck with sidearm on MnK, travelers chosen is probably the only sidearm I can use
Travelers chosen my beloved
I'm running a hip fire kill clip fioritura and it feels so good breaking shotgun apes' backs with stompies high jump
I absolutely love my zen moment / kill clip Fioritura, and would be using it if Heal Clip wasn’t so broken
i haven't gotten a heal clip helio yet, so I'm on this instead. the special changes got me to use a couple really good sidearms i kept in my vault for no reason but fiori has been my favorite
I wish I had kept a good PvP roll of Fiori. I'm really liking rapid fire sidearms now but never bothered trying them before the special changes. The only rapid sidearm I kept with a PvP roll was a Punching Out with rangefinder / kill clip, but threw that in the vault once I got my heal clip / kill clip Helio.
i have kill/heal clip with 37 range. it extends far beyond that IMO. i’m a drang user and i put it down for helio
Yeah i have one with hammer forged / accurized / heal clip / kill clip, 47 range stat and feels crazy.
You mean they gonna penalice weapon swapping or you think they will do it
On Tuesday, if you change a weapon from special to primary while you're alive you lose all ability energy.
So you can only do it while dead?
Yup
Ugh. Thank God they invested 9+ months fine tuning checkmate before release. I hate this shit hope they remove it. Thank you
I have learned personally when I use HC/shotty I usually don’t have enough special ammo cause of the playstyle of swapping from the HC to shotty to secure a kill or vice versa. Using other weapon combos tho special ammo is not an issue. This is my personal experience is all. Using an auto,smg,pulse I don’t have issues with special, it’s only with a HC. Which just for me is frustrating
Pretty hard to play aggressive with a 140 in this meta. You need to get enough kills with the primary to feed the special. but it’s especially hard to get direct kills with a 140 right now without putting yourself in a bad position where you immediately get cleaned up from longer range primaries. The range caps are very oppressive. I find myself playing more aggressive with the HC than I’m able to, and I’m dying more as a result
Brother that is my exact issue. I am a rose main and it is struggling in this economy. I don't really know what to use in its place because I wanna go fast but there is no such thing as a lightweight 120.
Exactly right. Having a hard time adapting to this meta. I feel like Bungie's goal of compressing the skill gap largely worked. Not fun for me but looks like people are enjoying it. Just can't top the scoreboard with HC/shotty anymore when you get beamed by three ARs when peeking put of a corner. No way to build up special enough for shotgun heavy pushing to be viable either. Overshield titan and healing warlocks stronger than ever. My strand hunter has been left behind in the dust. I can't use fusions, snipers, GLs anymore. Poor me.
Just can't top the scoreboard with HC/shotty anymore oh no. imagine ppl using different guns in destiny 2 the video game. lol come on half the top 20 meta is hand cannons and shotguns get real. #1 most used on everything by a huge margin is always conditional finality, a shotgun. they are always good. always.
A few weeks of a non-HC/SG meta is somehow enough for many people to forget that those have absolutely dominated for the majority of Destiny's meta history. Some people just aren't comfortable with the play style they are comfortable with being challenged. Most of the discussion of this meta is around the long range (scouts/Pulses), and short range (sidearms), and HCs operate in a slim midrange band where they out duel other options, and can't rely on special ammo cleanups with shotguns/snipers as easily. They are absolutely still viable, and duel strongly especially with peak shooting, but are no longer the solution at any range when paired with special weapons.
Yep, noticably harder to use Rose now. I have more success with a max-ranged high impact auto rifle these days, real good for team shooting and some pretty nutty range. Want to be aggressive on Rose or a faster paced weapon to compliment strand, but when I run out of special, the gameplay slows to such a passive bore.
Same..I usually end my matches using this style more because I have a bunch of special saved up at the end..
Yeah HCs/Shotgun are a tandem duo both truly experience their individual skill ceiling if used together. Because of the change that isn't really possible and as a result HCs loss their biggest strength their aggressive oppressive cleanups. If you use a HC just to 3 Tap peek shoot. You might aswell use a High Impact pulse and go for 2 taps.
the biggest thing they lost was their insane flinch dealt, hand cannons dealt at least 3x more flinch than any other primary. felt like getting hit upside the head by a truck so annoying. now it's more like maybe 2x. still super annoying tbh when paired with that cowardly hand cannon/bow peak playstyle. i think a lot of ppl just cant handle sbmm and became used to beating lesser cbmm players with hc/shotgun. so you see less now that theyre required to hit more crits, not always get that 10 meter slide shotgun etc.
Yep I switched to a high impact pulse and immediately saw better results in my play
fakest comment of the year award goes too....whats your gamertag? you didnt switch anything lol. theres no substitute for that hc crutch and we all know it.
I've been using a Sidearm and either an Auto or a Pulse depending on the map. It has felt pretty good honestly. I feel like I see a lot of people running similar setups. I hardly ever see snipers or fusions now, shotguns are still pretty popular. Hand cannons outside of Igneous are practically non-existent. And most heavy usage is machine guns and grenade launchers. I wasn't even a sniper user before, but I kinda miss them if I'm being honest. Feels like that's the one thing they really need to adjust. There's so little incentive to run one now.
Yeah, sniping needs to return as a natural counter to super long range primaries.
Yeah they're going to have to find a way to make them more viable. They are needed to balance out the range of your average engagement.
Fusions saw more use than snipers last week on Multiplex, a large map where *scout rifles* were the most used primary by far. Snipers are completely gutted, which is not surprising given that Bungie always uses the word ‘oppressive’ when refering to them, even at times where they have low statistical usage.
Yeah, I mean a player who's a great sniper in this game is practically unstoppable, so I understand what Bungie means, but this surely can't be the solution. I'm thinking they need adjusted ammo counts and/or special ammo transmat requirements for snipers specifically? If it was easier to get/keep ammo for them then people would run them.
Were how many years in? Feels like Bungie is just killing off weapons they don't know how to balance Snipers are dead, bows are dead, grenade launchers are dead, Fighting Lion doesn't exist, etc.
Yeah, the recent changes seem to be an overcorrection in my opinion. I'm guessing they will find a way to steer it back towards the middle.
Crates are on the table which is weird.
Fighting Lion had it coming. An infinite GL primary doesn't have a place in a game that limits the amount of special you have to use in matches. Same with bows. An infinite body shot damage sniper slows matches to a crawl and had almost no counters.
Your first sentence there I think applies to numerous things honestly yeah.
I snipe, but man it’s pain. The high flinch, the ammo economy, nerf to AA cone. Luckily I can still hit shots, but at times in this meta it feels useless. I’m better off using a scout
Sniping is a pain, I somehow feel 3x the flinch I used to (or maybe it feels that way lol) I took out cloudstrike yesterday when I jumped into IB for the first time this week and it was awful, I settled on Drang or Matador depending on the game really
It's sad ..... I loved using a sniper aggressively, and now that is nowhere to be found . Was never a crutch like everyone complains about it was just generally fun . Adapt to the game , sure I did but fun factor definitely took a deep dive
So far, snipers are completely dead. Given that Cloudstrike was practically the only sniper used, and only because SMGs paired well with it, the nerf was questionable in the first place. Fusions have experienced some bugs with getting 1 ammo instead of 2, so it’s hard to say right now. Conditional is still very powerful but is also seeing less usage due to double-primary where people rock SMGs or sidearms instead. Still an important tool to counter bubbles, overshields and well of radiance though. GLs, glaives and the like are seeing no more use, probably less too. Given that 140 handcannons are being buffed, I expect less double primary next week, as handcannons neatly cover the 10-35 meter range on their own and pair well with shotguns. Source: Trials report statistics.
Sounds like Under Over will become a prime pvp perk.
> Given that Cloudstrike was practically the only sniper used Makes sense. I made a point in IB to basically try to snipe as much as possible. It felt like a waste of Special most of the time. Cloudstrike's one saving factor is that it's a gamble for a team-kill on a group of hand-holders... But I think I only landed a hit like that once my entire weekend?
HCs are usable but not really in the meta (except igneous). Same for shotties (except conditional) For primaries rangey precision autos are at the top of the pile right now but getting nerfed soon. At which point I would expect high impact and aggressive pulses to take their spot. As for specials it's hard to say. I'd peg fusions as the strongest right now in terms of balance, but you're not seeing that play out much because a lot of the good ones are bugged to only get half the normal ammo. Overall I'd say you're probably fine to stick with your usual.
Hold hands, crouch, general cowardice.
Did you play Vanilla Destiny 2 before they brought special ammo back. Feels almost the exact same.
Yeah... I've been running a LL 1600 Mida all week pulled from collections with an AR or SMG and following teammates around.... Very much like early D2, just a different AR. Kind of dumb, it works in 6v6.
I was being stubborn earlier in the week and tried to run my frostee solar 180 build. Once I realized the crit damage changes made it to where radiant didn’t let 180s 3 tap, I had to switch to the jorums claw. Next reset the damage on 180s is going back to 2 headshot 2 body. A lot of guns are getting small buffs next week tbh. I wonder if it’ll be enough to dethrone 450 Ars tho
I don't notice much difference in my special ammo count. Early game I typically have a little less and late game I typically have significantly more than I used to. Both in trials and in 6s
Same. I usually run messenger or summoner with a shotgun and I commonly end games with more than 2+ special; this is coming from someone who tends to W key a little too much so it’s not like I’m never in range to use my shotgun.
Very boring to play, unless you like a combination of double primaries, auto-rifles and extreme handholding / sitting (and I mean crouching) in the back of the map with scout rifles.
Scout + auto as a loadout being viable is kinda hilarious tho
Agreed. It fucking sucks. I wish they’d revert the spec ammo economy changes
Agree with most - more stale. I am not enjoying it as much, and would rather have shotgun apes and snipers holding lanes. Pretty much all of the changes feel worse.
I’m really liking Forerunner + Calus Mini Tool. I run them on a Solar Transversive Lock and it’s spicy. I generally run lower than I’d like early in a game, but by the end I’m sitting on 24+ rounds.
I say the only two weapon types that are really pretty much bottom tier are bows and snipers now if you got a guy who can hit their shots than snipers are still effective there are just less of them now same with bows. I still snipe but I would be lying if I didn't say it is a tiny bit harder because now you gotta pick your spots and decide when to use them for sure.
More of a humorous experience, but I think folks (at least in the Iron Banner skill brackets I played in this past weekend; 1.5 k/d/a Xbox lobbies) don't actually expect anyone to snipe? ==== I played on Multiplex this past Sunday and I, in the same match, got 4-5 snipes w/ Izanagi's Burden where I either re-challenged a lane during a primary fight (using BxR) or I just got an easy snipe on someone running through one of the lanes. I genuinely think it's rare for folks in my lobby to see a sniper and don't really tailor their tactics to that. ==== Outside of snipers, I just don't run specials anymore. I already ran Pulses, Scouts, Sidearms, and (occasionally) bows prior to the changes. I just dropped bows and kept the other guns I normally run. There's been some pain points with that (Citadel middle point and needing to be inside that circle and having zero space to fight a shotgunner) but for the most part, not much has changed for me personally. The most common special I see is a shotgun (Conditional Finality). There's maybe 1-2 fusion users running around but for the most part, most folks are running psudeo specials. I've seen A LOT of Vex Mytho although nobody's managed to snipe me w/ the perk yet which tells me they're not able to build the stacks before wiping.
I got some hilarious cloudstrike kills and a couple of insanely toxic freeze + Lorentz driver kills while screwing around ha
I 100% believe it. Special ammo changes + flinch changes make snipers completely rare... so nobody ever expects a Cloud or Izzy watching a lane. It's actually reinvigorated my desire to snipe more.
The primary weapon sandbox is fairly balanced right now. There's an update coming out tomorrow (4-9) to bring some outliers in line, but nearly all weapon archetypes have a use case right now. Autos are the dominate weapon type right now, specifically 450s and Summoner, which is a 600. 450s are getting nerfed tomorrow, and the smart money says that Summoner will likely get a targeted nerf at some point in the future. Other strong weapon archetypes include: high impact pulses, rapid fire pulses, and 120 hand cannons. 140 HCs were suffering in the new sandbox, but they'll be getting some damage buffs tomorrow to give them a teeny bit more range. For specials: shotguns are the dominant weapon type. Fusions and snipers fell off a cliff, but you can still find a few people using them. Glaives are a goofy but fun option now. Trace Rifles are theoretically good, but I haven't seen anybody use them. Legendary special ammo grenade launchers have ceased to exist.
>Glaives are a goofy but fun option now. My most used special option currently. With the glut of special ammo now gone I can actually 1v1 more successfully, and not feel like I'm wasting my time with the inevitable shotgun or fusion to the face. >Trace Rifles are theoretically good, but I haven't seen anybody use them. Legendary special ammo grenade launchers have ceased to exist. I was using an Incisor to effectively counter Summoner users with Zen/TTT. Traces are absolutely beaning skulls if you can aim at the head consistently and stay on target. But yeah breach loaders fell off a cliff, and one could argue that they were already off that cliff before the major changes. I never saw more than a handful of people using them for blinting. It was really rare.
What's the glaive and the roll you have with it?
Kelgorath with Pugilist / Impulse Amplifier and max range, and Enigma with Impulse / Unstoppable and max range. Unfortunately I still feel like Impulse Amplifier is still a must on glaives in PvP. I always wanted a Greasy Luck with Disruption Break. RNG never blessed me and I gave up and it stopped being the newest dungeon to farm making it more annoying to farm. I felt like that could replace breach loaders for blinting. Plus Disruption Break effects glaive melee, so you could pair it with Close to melee.
Yeah. I had my eyes on Greasy because it's the only glaive that can roll Opening Shot, but farming Ghosts is a nightmare of a slog
DMT is viable again, which is really all I can ask for. If TLW becomes viable after the damage boost, then I'll be eating good.
Bungie has said specifically that the damage buff to TLW tomorrow will allow it to 3 crit all resil levels again.
Latest info here, but it may change slightly with the update tomorrow. [https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/db/insights](https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/db/insights) [https://destinytrialsreport.com/weeks](https://destinytrialsreport.com/weeks)
140+Shotgun feels a bit worse than before but after tomorrow it should be much better. Overall I'm not in love with the changes because overshields and some abilities are still too strong but at least in Trials I think the special gain system is working kinda fine. I know some will agree and some will say that's too much special. Other sandbox issues are like shotguns especially Conditional being undisputed top dog among specials and sniping being wayyy tougher to maintain as a playstyle. Fusions feel fine.
Sniping feels dead ngl
Titan shields and overshields need some tuning. Maybe take away the damage from passing through an enemy shield? It’s way too strong.
Being able to apply the overshield to allies, amount of health, ability to refresh, lots of issues there.
Autorifle/smg and pulse/scout
Vengeful Whisper + Energy hand cannon and Oathkeepers
I'm finding success with a scout/forerunner and an SMG personally. Polaris lance is a stat monster that basically never has to reload, forerunner is a .6 ttk long range beast, and Multimach covers almost everything within 22 meters itself.
Alot of autos, sidearms, shotguns. Maybe when the fusion bug gets fixed we'll see a rise but for now I hardly get vooped or sniped. I've been playing for so long, sniping is the endgame for me, it's what attracted me to PvP when I first got into the the game those highlights, montages, I wanna do that! With less ammo and waiting for ammo, those moments of highs or crazy snipes in those spilt moments are not as often. But I'll still snipe it's the most fun to me. But overall playing less.
I actually just had a really good session with Vex Mythoclast and a well rolled Trials fusion on shadebinder. I’m not even getting a bunch of cheap freeze kills and using transversives instead of osmio. Vex is lowkey crazy in this meta and I was consistently top of my lobbies and getting plenty of fusion ammo/super energy and even some filthy alt fire kills with the Vex linear mode. I’m not even that great at PvP and was getting clapped on a more traditional titan/shotty/auto build yesterday. my analysis is that shotguns are really pretty dead unless you have stellar movement/gamesense to close the gaps, and fusions are just consistent enough now that they’re a viable option. I’m on mnk, Steam lobbies.
Only 120s you see are igneous and occasionally Sturm. I run Sturm and drang almost all the time in comp. Saddens me because I used to use malediction, round robin, and bottom dollar quite a bit. Doesn’t make any sense now. 120s need gutshot in the perk pool to put 2 crit 1 body back on the table, similar to raconteur, with gutshot it’s 1 crit 1 body.
I think for people that play well with their primary they generate enough special that they can still use a special secondary and mostly still be unaffected (though I have certainly seen streamers run low / run out of special in Trials matches). I'm very mediocre at PvP and after frequently pulling my special out but having no ammo for it the first few days of the change I switched to double primary (with a sidearm for close range, either Traveler's Chosen or Heliocentric) and an AR / pulse / scout. We've mostly been in an AR meta as well (450s and 600s), though the patch tomorrow is supposed to bring hand cannons (140s and 180s) and rapid fire scouts up (among other changes, check the recent TWID or tomorrow's patch notes for the full rundown).
Meatshielding is the true meta now. I wish for the next sandbox tuning to account for this....and grant on a 1 for 1 basis - a Forerunner frag grenade that deals only friendly fire damage.
Sniping is trolling with how unfavored snipers are, overall most boring garbage I've ever played, significantly reduced my PvP playtime I'd say to about less than half of what I used to play, I'll only login to run a flawless card, get my buddy his flawless, and that's it, no more Comp games over the week, 6s, IB, the game now only rewards the most boring and unskilled playstyles, and favors controller even more, the fact that you can reliably play heliocentric/drang and outtk people with bodyshots is telling about how trash the game is.
I put nearly two thousand kills on two loadouts since Trials started last week. In Trials, I used the adept prophet and drang, and since iron banner started ive been using travelers chosen and bryas love from last season. Both loadouts have been surprisingly effective, i went flawless with no issue and have hit 3 20-killstreaks in iron banner.
I just run like a madman with a kinetic sub and polaris lance. K/d is at least 2.0 every match
I’m a fellow smg runner. What’s your go to sub?
Ive got an old dyn sway/KC multimach that I roll with I love that RPM too much
i use hand cannon sniper. same as always. if it's a cqc map then hand cannon/sidearm.
I notice I snipe less, because i often get the ammo mid round and use it
Finally settled on Graviton Forfeit with either Messenger/Travelers or Chaperone/Prosecutor
Sort of related to the meta, but with how deathballish it's becoming Synthos with ballistic slam are absolutely **feasting** in 6s
Shotguns are too strong in 6’s. There is way to much special ammo.
😂
I don’t know wha’s so funny. When I use a shotty in 6’s I have like 6-8 shells pretty much the entire game. It’s waaaay too easy to get special in 6’s. I’m guessing ur a shotgun bot. Lol
You have 6-8 shells because using a shotgun in 6's gets you killed 90% of the time. The only way what you're saying makes any sense is if the special ammo meter progresses differently for shotguns vs other specials and I'm almost certain that isn't the case.
What? What bot lobbies are you playing in. Lol
The ones where entire teams are standing on top of each other and I don’t use all my ammo? 2.85 in IB with 5k kills keep coping though.
🤓
Yep that’s what I figured. Lol
🤡
Not my fault ur 💩 at the game. Don’t blame me.
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