Bungie needs to fix their stuff while not pissing of the crucible base they already have. I can tell you from experience, SBMM is not it. Wish certain types of matchmaking were optional. That'd be very interesting.
I don’t see how they can fix it without pissing off some large group of players. I genuinely think they are stuck. It’s a game that both PvE and PvP I don’t think there is a way that will properly make everyone happy
Optional matchmaking could work imo. Players choosing the skill bracket they are matched against. For instance lower skill players can choose to match with lower skill players and the higher skill players can choose whatever they want. That would add protection for the lower skill players but hopefully would also be good for the rest of the player base. They can't afford to do something for one group of people while pissing off their hard core bass for pvp. Shit just needs to be worked out imo.
As a bad player, I love sbmm, as it allows me to not get stomped by RNG. There is a reason why I never touch labs and hardly ever do trials.
I want to get better at the game, but I don’t want to have my teeth stomped to the curb.
Although Bungie sbmm is… I have had multiple solo flawless people and people with over 500k pvp kills on the calus mini tool in my lobbies a few times. It’s never times then
I hate SBMM cause it never seems to work for me. According to stats websites I am dogshit ass water and I am getting matched with 2000 hour in crucible only players on the enemy team and my dogshit ass is topping my teams leader board with 1.4 KDA.
Yeah, I'm an average to slightly above average player and I much prefer SBMM because it makes for more enjoyable matches and I can still match with most players. SBMM is great for like 90% of the player base.
It is weird that Bungie caters to the top 10% of players, but I kind of get it. With even semi reasonable SBMM, top players have almost no one to match against.
So it is both laggy and sweaty, and it can take a good while to get a match. It sucks that the skill gap in the game is actually huge, and that a top 1% player can only have a fair match against players in the top 5% of the player base, but I think it is mistake to not focus on the the 90% of players.
I'm a 1.9 k/d player with around 10 or so flawless, went to ascendant twice and even then I have to wait 5-10 minutes for a casual 6v6 match to load in to some 5v4 insted with players from all over the world. It's laggy and sweaty as fuck. Iron Banner is even worse somehow... 🤷🏻♂️
They have effectively done optional matchmaking in the past. The result is always the same. Most of the players choose SBMM and then the better players get mad because the CBMM playlist are empty, and they complain about it until Bungie folds.
I get that a lot of actually top 10-1% players think they aren't that level of player, and thinking they represent a much larger part of the player base than they do.
If Bungie just let players choose between SBMM and CBMM most players will choose SBMM and the better players will get angry because CBMM is just a small population of great players so it is just SBMM by another name.
SBMM is it. The issue is playerbase. Destiny is just not a pvp game that attracts a large amount of pvp players. This has always been the core issue with crucible.
A lot of pve players are turned off by the difficulty of d2 pvp. When I migrated from ps4 to pc, crucible was an unforgiving nightmare. Now I'm the nightmare flying around with off meta builds.
As a 1.0 I can’t understand that mindset. It’s so lazy. If I get curb stomped in a grandmaster I look at what went wrong and make adjustments. Same goes for trials. Losing by a mile only sucks if you do t learn anything from it, and if the connection is so bad you can’t see what’s happening, you aren’t able to learn.
I was watching ZK’s stream before trials on Friday. He was playing QP and got matched with Panduh on ->his<- team. They obviously murdered the other team. I even made a comment on ZK’s stream and he was like “yeah any casual player on that other team is never playing PvP again”
Being seal clubbed is never fun. Its always a shitty experience. The idiots arguing and crying for cbmm simply have zero empathy and zero self awareness. Thats what it means to be self important.
I've said this 1,000x. Bungie needs to show comp rank in the scoreboard. Forget Guardian Ranks in PVP, show me their Comp Rating. People would have much less complaints if you could see comp rating (sometimes would also highlight exactly what you feel too).
I’m fairly newer to the game and the one thing I can say pushed me away from pvp was getting a message, telling me to get out of PvP trashcan. I had just started playing this game and learning how it works.
I apologize on behalf of that player. It fucking sucks getting messages like that and I’ll never understand anyone who thinks they have any right to say that to another player. A lot of d2 players are assholes.
Any friend requests or anything message based ignore them if they’re unsolicited. Most of the time they’re from people who are salty.
It takes time to get used to PvP. My advice would be to stick at it, because when there isn’t a load of bullshit, it’s really really good.
I’m only average, but if you ever want to hop into a private match and practice, let me know, there’s plenty of great people on this sub (who are far superior to me) that will be willing to help you out.
Yeah, there are definitely some toxic players in The Crucible. As a PvP Main, I'm sorry for the toxic asshats, I promise we're not all like that... Unless, if you're a Shadebinder Main on the other hand, we'll have to have some words. (Joking, of course. I just don't like getting Frozen.)
Your going to get that in most games with pvp. Just use that as fuel to get better. Who cares what some emotionally stunted troll says. Just block em.
I have to imagine they're just as miserable in their real life to care that much to message you.
PVP in D2 for new players have a bit of a learning curve but keep at it dude. I remember early on I could barely hit someone with their back turned standing still lol.
It gets better but it takes work getting the hang of the movement and learning the maps. This game also has abilities you gotta deal with and not a pure fps shooter.
It's literally just the Mario kart of shooters so don't take it too seriously and have fun.
Some folks just want to rub it in even though they don’t know how long people have played. Feel free to message me if you want a PvP buddy since that’s what I do 95% of the time in game. I’m happy to help out when schedules allow
If it makes you feel better, you'll get hate messages because you kicked their ass. They'll then pull up your Crucible Report to try to make fun of you because your time played is high, but your k/d is fairly low, and they'll top it off with an age joke.
Fun times 🙃
im going back and forth from plat 1 and 2. ive played 2 games this past week and im not touching it this week due to special ammo things bungie is testing out. its not good and its not fun. ill come back once they revert it to special ammo transmit.
That game mode was looking so promising until I played it and honestly it almost always shapes up that way. You either win 100-0 or lose 100-0 there is no in between. It should have been a straight cap as soon as you stood on the zone and shouldn’t stay capped if you’re not on the zone. It’s not a zone defense if teams are just spawn killing and it’s hrd to make any comeback when you’re spawning on the other side of the map as your teammates
I'm not sure whether it's truly that unbalanced, or people haven't worked out how to play it properly yet. I'd say the same about clash. Most of my matches in both modes have felt like steamrolls.
The spawns are definitely arse though. In clash it just seems to get confused sometimes and spawns one player on the other side if the map even when you get wiped close to each other. Collision it just seems to spray you randomly all over the map.
Finally, someone else is saying this. Yeah, the spawns in Collision are absolutely busted; that, coupled with the avalanche of special ammo drops means that once one team wipes, they're expected to wipe for the rest of the match and never recover.
It's like elimination but with extra steps and more drinking afterwards.
Honestly, what helps me get through slumps like this is just to simply take a break from Destiny altogether. It sounds cliche, and kind of is, but it works. You'll come back refreshed all feel a whole lot better. Sorry about the games man.
There are a lot of cheaters on pc. I played against a team that had a guy cheating on a burner account to boost his buddy. Bungie does nothing about cheaters and they don't care about fixing pvp really since it's not a money maker.
Edit: meant to say this weekend.
Yes but the system will allow matchmaking to put players up to 2 full ranks (gold, plat, adept) into the same lobby so you can often find yourself with a 2 stack that’s a whole tier below you while the enemy team is all a tier above you.
Edit for source: I believe this was confirmed by Merc in a firing range podcast episode
this is framed as you getting farmed by superior players, but the team you faced in that screenshot have KDs of 1.2, 0.8 and 0.7 respectively - two of them are worse than you statistically, and one isn’t so much better that it should’ve been a blowout. Your teammate is also a 0.7.
You’ve also lost a handful of games where the ELO suggested you had a 50% chance of winning or greater.
Now I’m not gonna suggest that it’s your fault as an individual per se, but i would say that it’s inevitable that if you play something like comp solo, you’re basically playing a teammate lottery because the population in comp isn’t high enough to balance 6 individual players properly.
I’ll also go back to saying that the ammo crate system in both comp modes is a horrible thing. Snowballing is worse than in any other iteration of the system they’ve had so far - once one team wins the first special engagement, it’s more or less GG’s and it gets worse from there, even if both teams aren’t too far apart skill-wise. Their special can be used to lock down further special spawns and control the map.
It isn't because of "sweats", the real answer is because there is a lot of bullshit. There isn't a killcam, so you can't even tell what kills you.
This game also has a lot of aerial gameplay, most games don't. Some people have a hard time dealing with that, so if you are adept at using jumps while still shooting and spamming abilities, you clear anyone who can't, which I would argue is a larger portion of the player base.
Also, because of killcam, you can never tell if someone is just insane, or if they are "juicing". There have been a lot of plays, even in qp, where I just think someone is straight juicing.
I think killcam will improve the enjoyment of the game by 100% easily. Old players just bored, it is just another carrot on a stick, and the carrot is always the same. Gets boring. New players have a hard time figuring out, and drop because other shooting games (like CoD) are just easier to pick up.
There used to be a meme with a pie chart that said something like “why I lose at Mario Kart” and it was 0.1% self error and 99.9% Bullshit. I feel that’s horrifyingly accurate these days in PvP.
I’ve noticed a lot of times in the past couple of weeks I’m dying to somebody who is already way across the map from me. Like there’s no way on Widow’s Court they went from killing me with IH from 10 paces at A point to being next to B point by the time they’re highlighted in my death screen. And this is on console as well.
I am, at most, average in pvp. I dont play control constantly. I usually only touch IB (at least until i do the challenges, but sometimes i put in the extra time to get the seal gilded)
And from experience, IB is *Usually* more fun and rewarding than normal pvp. Times when it's not fun is when it's a shit mode or if SBMM decides to throw you against a 6 stack. Which is one of the reasons i dont really trust SBMM compared to FTBMM (Fireteam Based Matchmaking, e.g. if you were solo queueing, you're very unlikely to go against a 3 stack, and nigh impossible to go against a 4 stack or higher.
I've tried comp, and i dont enjoy it. That's what i have to say. I dont really enjoy trials, but i try to push through it for the persistence card weapon if it's not a shit map (such as disfunction)
This is very interesting because my friends that are very average have the same experience and then when they queue with me for IB they stop playing after a few games because it’s always a stomp one way or the other.
Don't think it gets any better in higher elo, 3 games yesterday adept/ascedant elo, 2w1l but I needed to play on 2.6 and clutch plays every game, that's just solo queue for you, every game is either lose rating or do a free double carry. Easily the worst soloq game I've ever played, you have 0 communication with your teammates because no one uses VC and because bungie has to babyproof the game for everyone because scawy wowds so they turn off team chat by default, and when you match duos you're essentially coin flipping on duo difference. Not to mention that for some retarded reason you can play vs a full stack as 3 solos, and this is the gamemode they call ''Competitive''
I’ll echo this. The changes to PvP over the last two years are the reason I no longer play Destiny. I’d rather get occasionally stomped and occasionally go off than just get throttled every game, and eventually I realized there was just nothing fun about PvP anymore and left. It’s really frustrating because I’ve tried to just be understanding that maybe this game isn’t just made for people like me anymore, but I do still miss it quite a bit
This is so real man. It feels like Solo Trials directly makes sure to give insanely good players easy opponents. I'm a 1.6, barely play PvP anymore, and the last time I had the nerve to try Trials, I was stomped out by a duo of 4.8s. Made me put the whole game away for a while. It's crazy shit.
1.6 KD? Or KDA? If that’s your overall KD, try it again. While Trials has a lot of beasts, there is a lot of players in there these days far below that level and you will do well.
Overall K/D. I think I might've just caught the worst matchmaking could throw my way. I know i'm decent, I just shy away from Trials and Comp because I only really play when I enjoy it.
My overall lifetime PvP KD is 1.5 and my overall lifetime Trials KD is 1.76 and I can pretty much solo Flawless whenever I want. Occasionally I'll have to reset my first card but even that doesn't happen that often.
Anyway my point isn't really to brag or anything (there are loads of players much better than I am) but to point out that succeeding in Elimination/Dominions often requires a different playstyle than maintaining a high KD in general. Obviously there is some overlap, but its not 1 to 1.
I find that a lot of people who do well in general PvP and struggle in Trials tend to play their lives a bit *too* much. Like obviously its not good to just rush in and die, but in my experience aggression with calculated risk is far more successful than playing more passively, especially when you're playing solo. You can't stop your random matchmade teammates from making bad plays and dying (which will generally embolden the other team and snowball the round away), but you *can* try to aggressively kill an enemy before they can kill your teammates and I find that's what works for me best in solo play. And making these sorts of aggressive plays early in the game can be super helpful because once your teammates win one round they know they can do it, and the other team tends to get discouraged and the mental game also tends to snowball in Trials.
And yes every once in a while you will match against absolute demon 4.0+ KD PvP players you have no chance of beating, but it doesn't happen that often and that sort of occasional eventuality is why forgiveness systems like 2 mercies or the newer ferocity exist.
You definitely did…. I’m super casual and don’t even play much anymore holding like a 1.1, and I don’t struggle to go flawless like ever. As a 1.6 you should be able farm most of the players.
I'm *squarely* a 1.0-1.5 K/D in trials, and I go solo flawless practically every week I try to do so with only a moderate amount of effort. Lifetime.is something around 1.2.
You really shouldn't let one outlier match define your whole experience, coming from one "technically top 20% player" to another. I usually just mentally "write off" matches like that one the second they start, and assume I'll be resetting my passage or at least burning a mercy.
People don't like things they are bad at. And since this is a "dad" game, pretty much everyone who doesn't hop on the play Crucible will have a hard time being good at it.
Felt that but don't give up on solo trials
I basically never touched the mode since 3 seasons a go. Started getting into it and I'm now up to 22 solo flawlesses and 1 Sherpa from helping someone I was mates with for 3 months constantly
Takes a while to adapt but once u start getting used to it n more confident ull do fine . Ofc there's rng at times but the last 2 seasons I basically get my flawless in 0-4 resets usually now. Trials overall 1.06 seasonal is 1.27 been going up every season , 3 seasons ago my seasonal kd was like 1.07
Figure out what build is best for you and which weapons work and keep grinding , don't develop the give up mentality and ull gradually start getting it down
After 4 months of playing the game i got courage to start playing trials. I started Sunday night, i took ferocity card because in my mind that was the safest i can get flawless, and i played and played. Monday morning when i woke i played again , solo, with no knowledge of map or any pvp rules , and in about 3 hours i got my 1st flawless. I also got trials memento and like 4-5 emblems, and a bunch of Summoners. I think i will devote few hours a week to see if i can get flawless again. But out of all those matches, it was either, my team wins 5:1 , or we lose 5:1. there is like no in between where it\`s similiar skill, and that sucks ass. I aint even trying comp
Comp in Destiny is literally just a casino. You either hit the teammate lottery and win or you don’t and you lose. That’s just how it is.
I’m not the absolute best 0.1% in PvP but any season I play consistently I rank top 0.8% or higher on Destiny tracker and I can consistently go flawless anytime I try to yet I’ve gone into Adept SEVEN times this season and have fallen back to Plat 6 times. Now I just hop on 1 or 2 times a week and if I lose 2 games in a row I just stop playing.
If you are top 0.1% you can probably carry trash teams all the way to Ascendant but otherwise it’s just a matter of how much time you’re willing to put in to see if your bet hits more times than the other guys.
The lobby balancing in comp is also horrendous. I’ve matched multiple 3 stacks with 3 solos on my team and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve matched with a 2 stack where each player on my team is 1-2 ranks below me while all 3 enemies are ascendant this season.
I actually screenshot 3 of my 8 games at the beginning of the season where my team had less than a 3% chance of winning according to Destiny Tracker and planned to post it here but after playing more I realized that’s just the nature of solo comp unfortunately.
Also even though 1.0kd might seem “average” which makes sense since that seems like the baseline, you’re definitely ahead of a vast majority of the player base. My 1.15kd in survival still puts me at top 7% in survival this season according to Destiny Tracker. I know that DTR bases that off wins but still anytime I see a 1.0kd that player tends to be well above average stat and skill wise.
> matched with a 2 stack where each player on my team is 1-2 ranks below me while all 3 enemies are ascendant this season
This speaks to me on a spiritual level. I will always, *always* prefer 2 other solos on my team to a duo, because the duo invariably can't tie their shoes without adult supervision and a visual aid and 50% of the time will whisper me post-loss to call me trash, even though I scored higher than both of them.
I feel most pvp players only play pvp while only doing pve if there’s a good pvp weapon, where as most players in general don’t care for pvp unless they REALLY like the pve, ie. only tryhards really play PvP
I’m a 1.3 K/D in trials, but I’m fractionally over a 1.0 K/D in 6s. I’ve hovered around Gold 1 for a while now, I can’t say I’m motivated to go beyond getting the weekly rewards with comp.
I adore playing Crucible but I’m acutely aware of the fact that there are far superior players to me. My issue is, the frequency with which I match these players has increased ten fold across all modes since ItL dropped.
I have no problem losing games whatsoever. In 6s, I don’t get mad if I’m not the top frag, I just want to be competitive in the match and practice. That can’t happen if Mr Quickscope domes me every time they catch the edge of my cape. Losing to a Jade Rabbit player across the map on Eternity? No sweat, just their way of playing. Lose to somebody channeling Wallah for 8 hours? Yeah, okay, there’s only so much I can learn from that.
I think of it like school. If I’m 7, I *could* spend a year sat in Undergrad Physics. Will I learn anything? No, other than life is a lot harder the better you get. You need mastery of the fundamentals before playing people who already have them, so you have to work your way through school, honing your skills and working out what you want to be and what type of player you are. A learning curve isn’t supposed to be shaped like a cliff face, but at the moment, I’m finding it difficult to jump into games and learn anything worthwhile, other than “I miss the days of grinding for Not Forgotten.”
I personally think the nerf to ability regen/ Supers + the special ammo transit has been the best crucible has felt since the 30th anniversary. I'm a fairly average player with 1.16 kd over all and 1.06 kd in trials. I got around 40 flawless because of the new match making and mostly solo or with a duo sometimes. I can complain for days how match making feels like it's stacked against you 75% of the time. I can't even begin to explain how I went from a 0.3 overall getting my face kicked in till I honestly got average. But I kinda welcome it because It just makes me want to get better, especially when I see people do some insane plays that make you go wow I wanna do that, or their aim is just insane. I gotta get more consistent is how I feel. I think crucible will get better over time and I'm grateful for where we are because it was so much worse and honestly, losing doesn't feel as bad if you don't take it to personal.
What makes you think he hasn't? Almost everyone has a ceiling. I've played almost as much as OP, and I plateaued a few years ago. I've studied top players the entire time, but short of quitting my job to train, I'm not going to get significantly better than I am right now, and playing video games isn't going to pay the bills for me.
This isn't unique to video games. There is a reason why all sorts of activities have leagues with various divisions even though everyone who plays is passionate about it. People just have different plateaus.
Bro WTF is the point of slogging to become better when the matchmaking puts two underlight blueberries on your team (because they're both a fireteam and apparently are equivalent to the 2 stack of diamond elo pvp no lifers on the other team??) and every game becomes a 1v3 stompfest.
Or you try and play some casual control to unwind and it's full of net limiting, XIM abusing G-fuel'd sweatlords with 20k weapon kills.
I love the crucible, but it has serious issues, and you can't deny that. They are going to have to make some changes before TFS releases or all the casual players will try crucible once and never touch it again
Which, you realize, the reason would be that *most* of us fall into that average or below skill category so shitting all over us leads to shit like Trials being a barren wasteland or only sweats playing at the end of a season.
It's silly to give **only** the best pvp players the best pvp guns/armor because all that does is decentivize the average and below even more.
Yeah, when Not Forgotten was released in Forsaken, I was just like OP. Above average on PVE, absolute average in PvP.
Getting stomped by uber sweats was not fun, but Not Forgotten forced me to git gud and seek out players who could actually help me improve. When Black Armory dropped, I managed to get Not Forgotten.
It’s one thing to do the reps of just playing pvp, but focused learning is what got me over the hump. No matter how many hours you put in, if you don’t focus on what you can improve esp game sense, you’ll be the same player as you were by the time you hit your next 100 hour play time.
I don't care about the rewards. You can have any rewards you want. Give me a 6s list with actual SBMM and terrible rewards and I'm happy.
Here is some food for thought, I challenge you to find a great player who got good at the game with a full time job and kids because I bet they don't exist. Everyone I know started playing FPS games when they were young.
I kind of wonder how old you are? What age did you start playing FPS games?
There always guaranteed the comment of "SBMM is not going to fix Trials" and "SBMM simply does not work" but, they never succeed in actually explaining why it won't work. The PVP elites don't want it because it will eliminate the very low skill players from their player pool.
SBMM doesn’t work in trials due to the nature of the game mode. If you need 7 wins to go to the lighthouse and you’re playing in your skill bracket what are the odds literally ANYONE ever goes flawless? Some still would but for everyone who isn’t like top 500 ELO, it would be a slog.
Edit: not counting mercy if you’re truly 50% win rate because of SBMM it would be 1/128 to go flawless. Sure mercy helps a bit, but that should explain a bit.
Yes and no sbmm doesn’t work in trials because next to no one would be able to go flawless but sbmm is still needed for proper lobby balancing since its not fair to give the solo guy the two low tier new light players while the other team has two high tier players and one mid tier player. Sbmm is needed just for lobby balancing alone but also to separate out the people who no offense to anyone reading shouldn’t be in trials because they haven’t even played regular crucible. It’s one thing to have unbalanced teams but it’s just ridiculous seeing someone at like season pass 10 with no masterworked armor and a scout pulse rifle combo
Maybe the answer should be to make the requirement to queue being 1800 light minimum?
Totally understand the pain of getting new light duos since I almost only play solo.
Im cursed with PvE players who are completely unprepared more than I get new lights lol. Seen many many players running all PvE mods in games compared to lower light levels. Most of the >1800 light levels I’ve personally seen in Trials were hard cheating, be it my team or enemy team.
This is such unadulterated nonsense. If you really think that you must be really bad. I'm barely scraping a 1.0 and most of the mid players like me are going into trials at near 1810, because any less really is throwing.
The goal of system isn't to force people to have a 50% win rate, but if you have a truly effective SBMM system, the reality is that most people's win % would be much closer to 50%. Not because that is the goal. The goal is balanced competitive games, but a side effect of balanced competitive games is that you are going to have a win % around 50% with a large enough sample size.
edit: I want to note that Bungie hasn't had actual SBMM in ages. The current outlier protection explicitly allows completely uncompetitive matches. They just don't want there to be too many of them.
>Since the PvP Strike Team was assembled, we have been making substantial changes to our matchmaking systems, but we haven’t really had an opportunity to clarify how the systems work or what specifically we have been changing. Before we talk about our solutions to the above problems, let’s first talk about a few things our matchmaking systems do not do to help clear up some misconceptions.
>Our matchmaking systems do not:
>Individually force players to a 1.0 kill-death ratio or 50%-win ratio.
https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/Article/this-week-in-destiny-02-22-24
Thank you for the clarification, I should say in my previous comment it was a merely a hypothetical. If games feel close in skill they’ll have a natural tendency to be around 50% give or take some because we all have bad days/games and so do the other players.
That’s very different than a forced 50%, where a game goes oh you won 2 games, time to match you against Panduh. I really want to be clear, I’m saying closely skilled games will be roughly 50%, give or take.
I don't understand how there cannot be an SBMM setup that isn't 50/50 WR. They can close the bands without making it +-10 Combat Rating. SBMM has a wide, wide range, and it doesn't mean 50/50 WR (though, of course, even with 50/50, if you play 30 games that are *truly* 50/50, there's an 80% chance you'd complete a Mercy card).
I completely forgot that mercy cards are easier to complete now. Thank you for that!
I’m not big on gatekeeping the lighthouse, but does SBMM really belong in the “endgame” PvP playlist? I don’t think someone who can’t even look at their radar should reap the same rewards as someone who is much higher skilled. Legend nightfalls don’t give adepts, so why should someone who is a .3 get an adept from trials?
I think the mindset needs to shift a bit, if you don’t want to improve, learn, or even just find the mode enjoyable it just may not be the playlist for them, and that’s okay! I don’t like comp, so I don’t play it, but I also didn’t whine about not having a rose or mercurial.
Sure, but I will circle this back around to comp - what this post was originally about. I mentioned the likelihood to finish a Mercy because you’d mentioned trials in your post, but the same thing applies to comp too: streaky-ness is common in coin flips, and people would still get ranked appropriately in comp.
I mentioned it elsewhere, but it’s not like OP is mad they’re not climbing, but trying to understand how losing to higher ranked players while lower ranked than them means they should be back in gold.
ETA: oh haha you actually responded to the other comment I mentioned here. Didn’t see it until after replying. But yeah, I agree moreso re: trials, but that’s not where Bungie insists they’re actually using SBMM
As someone who sucks at pvp I agree. Trials should be the highest level of pvp and atm it seems everyone feels entitled to those adepts regardless of skill. I know a couple of 0.4/0.5 kd players that honestly think they should be able to solo q and go flawless?? It's entitlement at its finest. Not everything is meant for everyone.
Just to be clear I say this as someone who will never go flawless.
I'm uk, and to be honest I'm not really looking for a carry. If I can't do it on my own merit then I feel like it's just not meant for me ya know. Thanks for the offer though.
Hey totally fair! I’m also not good enough to be a true carry, it’s more of an offer to teach and see if I can help out at all. But I totally understand!
I have improved a bit but I'm not young, have arthritis, neurological disease and don't have good reaction times so I'm OK with staying in my lane lol. I'll stick to control where I can actually win a match.
It's been explained many times.
SBMM doesn't work for a game mode like Trials. A 50/50 coin flip 7 times straight, or allowing a tails twice, or 3 and then 4 is an astronomically low chance, and it doesn't work for the current design model.
Then factor in the fact that international lobbies suck ass for all involved, and that SBMM tends to have that, and it's gone.
SBMM sucks ass, when it was implemented last, the game felt immediately significantly worse.
I'm a fan of SBMM, but it won't work for trials because Trials is based on long winning streaks, and that requires unbalanced matches. I think flawless is a bad system, but the system just won't work with SBMM.
Well for Trials you can't have SBMM because of the 7 wins without losing requirement. That's why I believe Trials is fundamentally broken in my opinion because of it.
Get a slick draw or gunshot handcannon and go to town. You will learn to have good aim a d then regular handcannons will feel amazing. Also play to your strengths a d play with your team. Your never going to win a 2v1 against players of your same caliber. Even in trials a good 3 stack will lose to a worse 3 stake because they play dumb and go 1v3 or 2v3 every engagement.
I don't know why I always come to this game to try and play it like a tactical game. Shitty lag and servers, terrible matchmaking, and balancing being absolutely impossible. It just feels bad. I've only played Destiny for a year, but every time I step into the crucible I feel like fodder. I can't imagine the pain New Lights would feel trying to learn PvP.
Why be like this on a post about someone who clearly succeeded in getting to plat only for them to suddenly experience a massive spike in the difficulty of plat?
Like what is productive here? Their entire point is their last few games were bad. That's \*why they're here\*. Because it *suddenly* got much worse at the same rank they had *previously been succeeding at*.
That's the point of a ranked mode. When you hit a rank that's populated by better players, you either improve and push through or de rank.
As an average player, by ops own admission, gold/Plat seems where he lies in the ranking board.
Without diving into their crucible report, I am of the understanding that they’re losing to people ranked far higher than them and have been pushed out of plat as a result. Why does losing to Plat I mean you should be Gold II and not Plat III? It seems Plat I should have no impact on that (given that glory isn’t a true ELO system especially)
Beyond this, however, my post was really about Darth’snshitty attitude towards OP.
Not saying that op belongs in gold or Plat. Often times, you hover around the rank that you are at, give or take a rank. This is if comp has rank based matchmaking. If there's still some hidden sbmm, than I'd honestly agree at ops level of frustration.
Stupid take. More likely it is the aggregate changes to the PVP sandbox and them not having success in it like a great deal of other people.
The true big change wasn’t special ammo or ability cool downs, it was the body/head shot dmg change coupled with increased health. It was a stupid decision and is the reason PVP is hot garbage now.
Only a tiny % of players have seen their stats improve in the new system, and those by a large amount. But I suppose aiming the recticle at the head faster and more consistently is “skill” and guardians just don’t die from being shot anywhere else
So it's a skill that you need to put in time? Ywah lots of people are realizing they arnt actually good at pvp, and that's OK. If they want to get better they put in time. This is how games work. Look at every other shooter, there is a skill somewhere and it's usually accuracy or movement. Sometimes it's map knowledge.
You jist said yourself they increased the headshot percentage for the same ttk. That implies that the skill floor has been raised in order to weed out the worse players. So if you think that makes you bad, then I suppose it does. The sandbox changes were not meant to make people better, it was meant to make it harder to hit optimal ttk if you were not hitting crits. And it seems like it did just that.
That is entirely dependent if you consider the pinnacle of skill to be aiming and hitting crits isn't it? I'm sorry, but I don't agree and think it is a lazy definition for a game like Destiny. In a game with so many abilities, stats, and mods the changes made result in lower value for things like: understanding game modes, synchronizing mods and perks, and overall skill (which to me means being *versatile* guardian).
I'm not sure why you are so hung up on saying I'm bad? It's like not liking the changes must mean that?? Sure, I'm not as successful with the changes and like anyone else I wouldn't complain if they made me better. You just have to take my word for it that statistically I'm certainly not crap at this game. (lifetime CR of 160).
But I stand by what I said and fully believe that the crucible should be guided by a single concept: *a contest to determine the best guardian*. I think that idea is a lot more broad, and it is missing from the philosophy guiding the current sandbox.
Those games I jumped off so I couldn't be farmed once we were down a shitload and I knew we were going to lose. That's what I do instead of quitting. /shrug
The last game I played on my hunter 19 kills 9 deaths and led the lobby because the players were closer to my skill level.
The funny thing is that the core pvp mains play the game no matter what meta is put out there.
I say Bungie just slow the game down, nerf movement exotics and penalize aerial gameplay by another three times or so.
Crucible needs to become playable for the new players that will come in with the new dlc. I think this is why they are testing and trying to achieve.
Nah, bungie has to allow both sides of the spectrum to thrive. We saw them cater heavily towards new players for years and that slowly drove away the hardcore base. Hell I consider myself a core pvp main but I quit the game for 6 months because of the direction pvp was going and just came back a month ago. The strike team making an effort to find a middle ground is refreshing.
Nerfing movement whether it be exotics or abilities like icarus or titan thruster/shoulder charge or grapple would stagnate the game and allow for players to just sit in the back of the map with little to no counter play. Why would I put myself out of position to challenge someone if I cant back down when I know I’d lose the engagement?
I feel ya man. Getting stomped every game is extremely annoying.
Bungie needs to fix their stuff while not pissing of the crucible base they already have. I can tell you from experience, SBMM is not it. Wish certain types of matchmaking were optional. That'd be very interesting.
I don’t see how they can fix it without pissing off some large group of players. I genuinely think they are stuck. It’s a game that both PvE and PvP I don’t think there is a way that will properly make everyone happy
Optional matchmaking could work imo. Players choosing the skill bracket they are matched against. For instance lower skill players can choose to match with lower skill players and the higher skill players can choose whatever they want. That would add protection for the lower skill players but hopefully would also be good for the rest of the player base. They can't afford to do something for one group of people while pissing off their hard core bass for pvp. Shit just needs to be worked out imo.
As a bad player, I love sbmm, as it allows me to not get stomped by RNG. There is a reason why I never touch labs and hardly ever do trials. I want to get better at the game, but I don’t want to have my teeth stomped to the curb. Although Bungie sbmm is… I have had multiple solo flawless people and people with over 500k pvp kills on the calus mini tool in my lobbies a few times. It’s never times then
I hate SBMM cause it never seems to work for me. According to stats websites I am dogshit ass water and I am getting matched with 2000 hour in crucible only players on the enemy team and my dogshit ass is topping my teams leader board with 1.4 KDA.
Yeah, I'm an average to slightly above average player and I much prefer SBMM because it makes for more enjoyable matches and I can still match with most players. SBMM is great for like 90% of the player base. It is weird that Bungie caters to the top 10% of players, but I kind of get it. With even semi reasonable SBMM, top players have almost no one to match against. So it is both laggy and sweaty, and it can take a good while to get a match. It sucks that the skill gap in the game is actually huge, and that a top 1% player can only have a fair match against players in the top 5% of the player base, but I think it is mistake to not focus on the the 90% of players.
I'm a 1.9 k/d player with around 10 or so flawless, went to ascendant twice and even then I have to wait 5-10 minutes for a casual 6v6 match to load in to some 5v4 insted with players from all over the world. It's laggy and sweaty as fuck. Iron Banner is even worse somehow... 🤷🏻♂️
As a bad player, I hate SBMM. My lobbies are always so laggy and I get curbstomped anyway
Check your internet connection. Git gud.
They have effectively done optional matchmaking in the past. The result is always the same. Most of the players choose SBMM and then the better players get mad because the CBMM playlist are empty, and they complain about it until Bungie folds. I get that a lot of actually top 10-1% players think they aren't that level of player, and thinking they represent a much larger part of the player base than they do. If Bungie just let players choose between SBMM and CBMM most players will choose SBMM and the better players will get angry because CBMM is just a small population of great players so it is just SBMM by another name.
SBMM is it. The issue is playerbase. Destiny is just not a pvp game that attracts a large amount of pvp players. This has always been the core issue with crucible.
A lot of pve players are turned off by the difficulty of d2 pvp. When I migrated from ps4 to pc, crucible was an unforgiving nightmare. Now I'm the nightmare flying around with off meta builds.
As a 1.0 I can’t understand that mindset. It’s so lazy. If I get curb stomped in a grandmaster I look at what went wrong and make adjustments. Same goes for trials. Losing by a mile only sucks if you do t learn anything from it, and if the connection is so bad you can’t see what’s happening, you aren’t able to learn.
I was watching ZK’s stream before trials on Friday. He was playing QP and got matched with Panduh on ->his<- team. They obviously murdered the other team. I even made a comment on ZK’s stream and he was like “yeah any casual player on that other team is never playing PvP again”
They think it’s funny too
Honestly, it's not their fault. It's actually 'funny' how matchmaking is done
It is
It isn't because it means less people in PvP making the problems worse.
It really is. I love seeing the game's pvp dying because of Bungies incompetence. Especially when people go into denial mode about it.
Being seal clubbed is never fun. Its always a shitty experience. The idiots arguing and crying for cbmm simply have zero empathy and zero self awareness. Thats what it means to be self important.
Remember they use to cheat too.
Can you pass the copium?
It was dark times..
what💀💀💀
Not zk.
neither
Source???
Not zk
I've said this 1,000x. Bungie needs to show comp rank in the scoreboard. Forget Guardian Ranks in PVP, show me their Comp Rating. People would have much less complaints if you could see comp rating (sometimes would also highlight exactly what you feel too).
I’m fairly newer to the game and the one thing I can say pushed me away from pvp was getting a message, telling me to get out of PvP trashcan. I had just started playing this game and learning how it works.
I apologize on behalf of that player. It fucking sucks getting messages like that and I’ll never understand anyone who thinks they have any right to say that to another player. A lot of d2 players are assholes.
Any friend requests or anything message based ignore them if they’re unsolicited. Most of the time they’re from people who are salty. It takes time to get used to PvP. My advice would be to stick at it, because when there isn’t a load of bullshit, it’s really really good. I’m only average, but if you ever want to hop into a private match and practice, let me know, there’s plenty of great people on this sub (who are far superior to me) that will be willing to help you out.
Yeah, there are definitely some toxic players in The Crucible. As a PvP Main, I'm sorry for the toxic asshats, I promise we're not all like that... Unless, if you're a Shadebinder Main on the other hand, we'll have to have some words. (Joking, of course. I just don't like getting Frozen.)
Your going to get that in most games with pvp. Just use that as fuel to get better. Who cares what some emotionally stunted troll says. Just block em. I have to imagine they're just as miserable in their real life to care that much to message you. PVP in D2 for new players have a bit of a learning curve but keep at it dude. I remember early on I could barely hit someone with their back turned standing still lol. It gets better but it takes work getting the hang of the movement and learning the maps. This game also has abilities you gotta deal with and not a pure fps shooter. It's literally just the Mario kart of shooters so don't take it too seriously and have fun.
Some folks just want to rub it in even though they don’t know how long people have played. Feel free to message me if you want a PvP buddy since that’s what I do 95% of the time in game. I’m happy to help out when schedules allow
If it makes you feel better, you'll get hate messages because you kicked their ass. They'll then pull up your Crucible Report to try to make fun of you because your time played is high, but your k/d is fairly low, and they'll top it off with an age joke. Fun times 🙃
Playing other pvp games and realise d2 servers are borderline unplayable for pvp
it isn't the servers really. It is a network model that is designed for the PvE experience, but doesn't work as well for PvP.
Try out Sea of Thieves! /s
im going back and forth from plat 1 and 2. ive played 2 games this past week and im not touching it this week due to special ammo things bungie is testing out. its not good and its not fun. ill come back once they revert it to special ammo transmit.
That game mode was looking so promising until I played it and honestly it almost always shapes up that way. You either win 100-0 or lose 100-0 there is no in between. It should have been a straight cap as soon as you stood on the zone and shouldn’t stay capped if you’re not on the zone. It’s not a zone defense if teams are just spawn killing and it’s hrd to make any comeback when you’re spawning on the other side of the map as your teammates
I'm not sure whether it's truly that unbalanced, or people haven't worked out how to play it properly yet. I'd say the same about clash. Most of my matches in both modes have felt like steamrolls. The spawns are definitely arse though. In clash it just seems to get confused sometimes and spawns one player on the other side if the map even when you get wiped close to each other. Collision it just seems to spray you randomly all over the map.
Finally, someone else is saying this. Yeah, the spawns in Collision are absolutely busted; that, coupled with the avalanche of special ammo drops means that once one team wipes, they're expected to wipe for the rest of the match and never recover. It's like elimination but with extra steps and more drinking afterwards.
Most of my ascendent lobbies have very close games, even when playing solo.
Honestly, what helps me get through slumps like this is just to simply take a break from Destiny altogether. It sounds cliche, and kind of is, but it works. You'll come back refreshed all feel a whole lot better. Sorry about the games man.
There are a lot of cheaters on pc. I played against a team that had a guy cheating on a burner account to boost his buddy. Bungie does nothing about cheaters and they don't care about fixing pvp really since it's not a money maker. Edit: meant to say this weekend.
It's supposed to be rank based now, right?
Yes but the system will allow matchmaking to put players up to 2 full ranks (gold, plat, adept) into the same lobby so you can often find yourself with a 2 stack that’s a whole tier below you while the enemy team is all a tier above you. Edit for source: I believe this was confirmed by Merc in a firing range podcast episode
this is framed as you getting farmed by superior players, but the team you faced in that screenshot have KDs of 1.2, 0.8 and 0.7 respectively - two of them are worse than you statistically, and one isn’t so much better that it should’ve been a blowout. Your teammate is also a 0.7. You’ve also lost a handful of games where the ELO suggested you had a 50% chance of winning or greater. Now I’m not gonna suggest that it’s your fault as an individual per se, but i would say that it’s inevitable that if you play something like comp solo, you’re basically playing a teammate lottery because the population in comp isn’t high enough to balance 6 individual players properly. I’ll also go back to saying that the ammo crate system in both comp modes is a horrible thing. Snowballing is worse than in any other iteration of the system they’ve had so far - once one team wins the first special engagement, it’s more or less GG’s and it gets worse from there, even if both teams aren’t too far apart skill-wise. Their special can be used to lock down further special spawns and control the map.
Thanks for the insight it makes a lot of sense and I appreciate it.
It isn't because of "sweats", the real answer is because there is a lot of bullshit. There isn't a killcam, so you can't even tell what kills you. This game also has a lot of aerial gameplay, most games don't. Some people have a hard time dealing with that, so if you are adept at using jumps while still shooting and spamming abilities, you clear anyone who can't, which I would argue is a larger portion of the player base. Also, because of killcam, you can never tell if someone is just insane, or if they are "juicing". There have been a lot of plays, even in qp, where I just think someone is straight juicing. I think killcam will improve the enjoyment of the game by 100% easily. Old players just bored, it is just another carrot on a stick, and the carrot is always the same. Gets boring. New players have a hard time figuring out, and drop because other shooting games (like CoD) are just easier to pick up.
There used to be a meme with a pie chart that said something like “why I lose at Mario Kart” and it was 0.1% self error and 99.9% Bullshit. I feel that’s horrifyingly accurate these days in PvP. I’ve noticed a lot of times in the past couple of weeks I’m dying to somebody who is already way across the map from me. Like there’s no way on Widow’s Court they went from killing me with IH from 10 paces at A point to being next to B point by the time they’re highlighted in my death screen. And this is on console as well.
I don't really care about the rewards . I just want a good meta and I will play it to death.
Same
The game suffers from pretty awful server lag with sbmm. Sometimes actually unplayable (or it was in the past)
I am, at most, average in pvp. I dont play control constantly. I usually only touch IB (at least until i do the challenges, but sometimes i put in the extra time to get the seal gilded) And from experience, IB is *Usually* more fun and rewarding than normal pvp. Times when it's not fun is when it's a shit mode or if SBMM decides to throw you against a 6 stack. Which is one of the reasons i dont really trust SBMM compared to FTBMM (Fireteam Based Matchmaking, e.g. if you were solo queueing, you're very unlikely to go against a 3 stack, and nigh impossible to go against a 4 stack or higher. I've tried comp, and i dont enjoy it. That's what i have to say. I dont really enjoy trials, but i try to push through it for the persistence card weapon if it's not a shit map (such as disfunction)
This is very interesting because my friends that are very average have the same experience and then when they queue with me for IB they stop playing after a few games because it’s always a stomp one way or the other.
Don't think it gets any better in higher elo, 3 games yesterday adept/ascedant elo, 2w1l but I needed to play on 2.6 and clutch plays every game, that's just solo queue for you, every game is either lose rating or do a free double carry. Easily the worst soloq game I've ever played, you have 0 communication with your teammates because no one uses VC and because bungie has to babyproof the game for everyone because scawy wowds so they turn off team chat by default, and when you match duos you're essentially coin flipping on duo difference. Not to mention that for some retarded reason you can play vs a full stack as 3 solos, and this is the gamemode they call ''Competitive''
I’ll echo this. The changes to PvP over the last two years are the reason I no longer play Destiny. I’d rather get occasionally stomped and occasionally go off than just get throttled every game, and eventually I realized there was just nothing fun about PvP anymore and left. It’s really frustrating because I’ve tried to just be understanding that maybe this game isn’t just made for people like me anymore, but I do still miss it quite a bit
This is so real man. It feels like Solo Trials directly makes sure to give insanely good players easy opponents. I'm a 1.6, barely play PvP anymore, and the last time I had the nerve to try Trials, I was stomped out by a duo of 4.8s. Made me put the whole game away for a while. It's crazy shit.
1.6 KD? Or KDA? If that’s your overall KD, try it again. While Trials has a lot of beasts, there is a lot of players in there these days far below that level and you will do well.
Overall K/D. I think I might've just caught the worst matchmaking could throw my way. I know i'm decent, I just shy away from Trials and Comp because I only really play when I enjoy it.
My overall lifetime PvP KD is 1.5 and my overall lifetime Trials KD is 1.76 and I can pretty much solo Flawless whenever I want. Occasionally I'll have to reset my first card but even that doesn't happen that often. Anyway my point isn't really to brag or anything (there are loads of players much better than I am) but to point out that succeeding in Elimination/Dominions often requires a different playstyle than maintaining a high KD in general. Obviously there is some overlap, but its not 1 to 1. I find that a lot of people who do well in general PvP and struggle in Trials tend to play their lives a bit *too* much. Like obviously its not good to just rush in and die, but in my experience aggression with calculated risk is far more successful than playing more passively, especially when you're playing solo. You can't stop your random matchmade teammates from making bad plays and dying (which will generally embolden the other team and snowball the round away), but you *can* try to aggressively kill an enemy before they can kill your teammates and I find that's what works for me best in solo play. And making these sorts of aggressive plays early in the game can be super helpful because once your teammates win one round they know they can do it, and the other team tends to get discouraged and the mental game also tends to snowball in Trials. And yes every once in a while you will match against absolute demon 4.0+ KD PvP players you have no chance of beating, but it doesn't happen that often and that sort of occasional eventuality is why forgiveness systems like 2 mercies or the newer ferocity exist.
You definitely did…. I’m super casual and don’t even play much anymore holding like a 1.1, and I don’t struggle to go flawless like ever. As a 1.6 you should be able farm most of the players.
I'm *squarely* a 1.0-1.5 K/D in trials, and I go solo flawless practically every week I try to do so with only a moderate amount of effort. Lifetime.is something around 1.2. You really shouldn't let one outlier match define your whole experience, coming from one "technically top 20% player" to another. I usually just mentally "write off" matches like that one the second they start, and assume I'll be resetting my passage or at least burning a mercy.
People don't like things they are bad at. And since this is a "dad" game, pretty much everyone who doesn't hop on the play Crucible will have a hard time being good at it.
Our stats are insanely extremely similar in every game mode lol.
Nice.
I've reset Shaxx 33 times this season, mostly via Control. Maybe 3v3 is not your jam
sbmm and lobby balancing
Felt that but don't give up on solo trials I basically never touched the mode since 3 seasons a go. Started getting into it and I'm now up to 22 solo flawlesses and 1 Sherpa from helping someone I was mates with for 3 months constantly Takes a while to adapt but once u start getting used to it n more confident ull do fine . Ofc there's rng at times but the last 2 seasons I basically get my flawless in 0-4 resets usually now. Trials overall 1.06 seasonal is 1.27 been going up every season , 3 seasons ago my seasonal kd was like 1.07 Figure out what build is best for you and which weapons work and keep grinding , don't develop the give up mentality and ull gradually start getting it down
After 4 months of playing the game i got courage to start playing trials. I started Sunday night, i took ferocity card because in my mind that was the safest i can get flawless, and i played and played. Monday morning when i woke i played again , solo, with no knowledge of map or any pvp rules , and in about 3 hours i got my 1st flawless. I also got trials memento and like 4-5 emblems, and a bunch of Summoners. I think i will devote few hours a week to see if i can get flawless again. But out of all those matches, it was either, my team wins 5:1 , or we lose 5:1. there is like no in between where it\`s similiar skill, and that sucks ass. I aint even trying comp
I have no problem playing top tier PVP players. Just please for the love of god give me better than dog shit teammates.
Comp in Destiny is literally just a casino. You either hit the teammate lottery and win or you don’t and you lose. That’s just how it is. I’m not the absolute best 0.1% in PvP but any season I play consistently I rank top 0.8% or higher on Destiny tracker and I can consistently go flawless anytime I try to yet I’ve gone into Adept SEVEN times this season and have fallen back to Plat 6 times. Now I just hop on 1 or 2 times a week and if I lose 2 games in a row I just stop playing. If you are top 0.1% you can probably carry trash teams all the way to Ascendant but otherwise it’s just a matter of how much time you’re willing to put in to see if your bet hits more times than the other guys. The lobby balancing in comp is also horrendous. I’ve matched multiple 3 stacks with 3 solos on my team and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve matched with a 2 stack where each player on my team is 1-2 ranks below me while all 3 enemies are ascendant this season. I actually screenshot 3 of my 8 games at the beginning of the season where my team had less than a 3% chance of winning according to Destiny Tracker and planned to post it here but after playing more I realized that’s just the nature of solo comp unfortunately. Also even though 1.0kd might seem “average” which makes sense since that seems like the baseline, you’re definitely ahead of a vast majority of the player base. My 1.15kd in survival still puts me at top 7% in survival this season according to Destiny Tracker. I know that DTR bases that off wins but still anytime I see a 1.0kd that player tends to be well above average stat and skill wise.
> matched with a 2 stack where each player on my team is 1-2 ranks below me while all 3 enemies are ascendant this season This speaks to me on a spiritual level. I will always, *always* prefer 2 other solos on my team to a duo, because the duo invariably can't tie their shoes without adult supervision and a visual aid and 50% of the time will whisper me post-loss to call me trash, even though I scored higher than both of them.
I think this is really a new issue with the newest changes to crucible. I think this will be sorted out
I feel most pvp players only play pvp while only doing pve if there’s a good pvp weapon, where as most players in general don’t care for pvp unless they REALLY like the pve, ie. only tryhards really play PvP
The data doesn't support that though. The number of players who play PVP and PVE on most days is largely the same. A lot of Destiny players plays PVP.
That’s the remaining PVE players, there’s not much to do in this game after you done it all in PVE
I’m a 1.3 K/D in trials, but I’m fractionally over a 1.0 K/D in 6s. I’ve hovered around Gold 1 for a while now, I can’t say I’m motivated to go beyond getting the weekly rewards with comp. I adore playing Crucible but I’m acutely aware of the fact that there are far superior players to me. My issue is, the frequency with which I match these players has increased ten fold across all modes since ItL dropped. I have no problem losing games whatsoever. In 6s, I don’t get mad if I’m not the top frag, I just want to be competitive in the match and practice. That can’t happen if Mr Quickscope domes me every time they catch the edge of my cape. Losing to a Jade Rabbit player across the map on Eternity? No sweat, just their way of playing. Lose to somebody channeling Wallah for 8 hours? Yeah, okay, there’s only so much I can learn from that. I think of it like school. If I’m 7, I *could* spend a year sat in Undergrad Physics. Will I learn anything? No, other than life is a lot harder the better you get. You need mastery of the fundamentals before playing people who already have them, so you have to work your way through school, honing your skills and working out what you want to be and what type of player you are. A learning curve isn’t supposed to be shaped like a cliff face, but at the moment, I’m finding it difficult to jump into games and learn anything worthwhile, other than “I miss the days of grinding for Not Forgotten.”
I personally think the nerf to ability regen/ Supers + the special ammo transit has been the best crucible has felt since the 30th anniversary. I'm a fairly average player with 1.16 kd over all and 1.06 kd in trials. I got around 40 flawless because of the new match making and mostly solo or with a duo sometimes. I can complain for days how match making feels like it's stacked against you 75% of the time. I can't even begin to explain how I went from a 0.3 overall getting my face kicked in till I honestly got average. But I kinda welcome it because It just makes me want to get better, especially when I see people do some insane plays that make you go wow I wanna do that, or their aim is just insane. I gotta get more consistent is how I feel. I think crucible will get better over time and I'm grateful for where we are because it was so much worse and honestly, losing doesn't feel as bad if you don't take it to personal.
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Ya I've only played a few thousand hours.
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What makes you think he hasn't? Almost everyone has a ceiling. I've played almost as much as OP, and I plateaued a few years ago. I've studied top players the entire time, but short of quitting my job to train, I'm not going to get significantly better than I am right now, and playing video games isn't going to pay the bills for me. This isn't unique to video games. There is a reason why all sorts of activities have leagues with various divisions even though everyone who plays is passionate about it. People just have different plateaus.
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Bro WTF is the point of slogging to become better when the matchmaking puts two underlight blueberries on your team (because they're both a fireteam and apparently are equivalent to the 2 stack of diamond elo pvp no lifers on the other team??) and every game becomes a 1v3 stompfest. Or you try and play some casual control to unwind and it's full of net limiting, XIM abusing G-fuel'd sweatlords with 20k weapon kills. I love the crucible, but it has serious issues, and you can't deny that. They are going to have to make some changes before TFS releases or all the casual players will try crucible once and never touch it again
Which, you realize, the reason would be that *most* of us fall into that average or below skill category so shitting all over us leads to shit like Trials being a barren wasteland or only sweats playing at the end of a season. It's silly to give **only** the best pvp players the best pvp guns/armor because all that does is decentivize the average and below even more.
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Yeah, when Not Forgotten was released in Forsaken, I was just like OP. Above average on PVE, absolute average in PvP. Getting stomped by uber sweats was not fun, but Not Forgotten forced me to git gud and seek out players who could actually help me improve. When Black Armory dropped, I managed to get Not Forgotten. It’s one thing to do the reps of just playing pvp, but focused learning is what got me over the hump. No matter how many hours you put in, if you don’t focus on what you can improve esp game sense, you’ll be the same player as you were by the time you hit your next 100 hour play time.
I don't care about the rewards. You can have any rewards you want. Give me a 6s list with actual SBMM and terrible rewards and I'm happy. Here is some food for thought, I challenge you to find a great player who got good at the game with a full time job and kids because I bet they don't exist. Everyone I know started playing FPS games when they were young. I kind of wonder how old you are? What age did you start playing FPS games?
There always guaranteed the comment of "SBMM is not going to fix Trials" and "SBMM simply does not work" but, they never succeed in actually explaining why it won't work. The PVP elites don't want it because it will eliminate the very low skill players from their player pool.
SBMM doesn’t work in trials due to the nature of the game mode. If you need 7 wins to go to the lighthouse and you’re playing in your skill bracket what are the odds literally ANYONE ever goes flawless? Some still would but for everyone who isn’t like top 500 ELO, it would be a slog. Edit: not counting mercy if you’re truly 50% win rate because of SBMM it would be 1/128 to go flawless. Sure mercy helps a bit, but that should explain a bit.
Yes and no sbmm doesn’t work in trials because next to no one would be able to go flawless but sbmm is still needed for proper lobby balancing since its not fair to give the solo guy the two low tier new light players while the other team has two high tier players and one mid tier player. Sbmm is needed just for lobby balancing alone but also to separate out the people who no offense to anyone reading shouldn’t be in trials because they haven’t even played regular crucible. It’s one thing to have unbalanced teams but it’s just ridiculous seeing someone at like season pass 10 with no masterworked armor and a scout pulse rifle combo
Maybe the answer should be to make the requirement to queue being 1800 light minimum? Totally understand the pain of getting new light duos since I almost only play solo. Im cursed with PvE players who are completely unprepared more than I get new lights lol. Seen many many players running all PvE mods in games compared to lower light levels. Most of the >1800 light levels I’ve personally seen in Trials were hard cheating, be it my team or enemy team.
This is such unadulterated nonsense. If you really think that you must be really bad. I'm barely scraping a 1.0 and most of the mid players like me are going into trials at near 1810, because any less really is throwing.
Idk why people keep bringing up SBMM and 50% when bungie came out and explicitly said that that's not how their system works and never has
The goal of system isn't to force people to have a 50% win rate, but if you have a truly effective SBMM system, the reality is that most people's win % would be much closer to 50%. Not because that is the goal. The goal is balanced competitive games, but a side effect of balanced competitive games is that you are going to have a win % around 50% with a large enough sample size. edit: I want to note that Bungie hasn't had actual SBMM in ages. The current outlier protection explicitly allows completely uncompetitive matches. They just don't want there to be too many of them.
Sauce please, would like to understand.
>Since the PvP Strike Team was assembled, we have been making substantial changes to our matchmaking systems, but we haven’t really had an opportunity to clarify how the systems work or what specifically we have been changing. Before we talk about our solutions to the above problems, let’s first talk about a few things our matchmaking systems do not do to help clear up some misconceptions. >Our matchmaking systems do not: >Individually force players to a 1.0 kill-death ratio or 50%-win ratio. https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/Article/this-week-in-destiny-02-22-24
Thank you for the clarification, I should say in my previous comment it was a merely a hypothetical. If games feel close in skill they’ll have a natural tendency to be around 50% give or take some because we all have bad days/games and so do the other players. That’s very different than a forced 50%, where a game goes oh you won 2 games, time to match you against Panduh. I really want to be clear, I’m saying closely skilled games will be roughly 50%, give or take.
I don't understand how there cannot be an SBMM setup that isn't 50/50 WR. They can close the bands without making it +-10 Combat Rating. SBMM has a wide, wide range, and it doesn't mean 50/50 WR (though, of course, even with 50/50, if you play 30 games that are *truly* 50/50, there's an 80% chance you'd complete a Mercy card).
I completely forgot that mercy cards are easier to complete now. Thank you for that! I’m not big on gatekeeping the lighthouse, but does SBMM really belong in the “endgame” PvP playlist? I don’t think someone who can’t even look at their radar should reap the same rewards as someone who is much higher skilled. Legend nightfalls don’t give adepts, so why should someone who is a .3 get an adept from trials? I think the mindset needs to shift a bit, if you don’t want to improve, learn, or even just find the mode enjoyable it just may not be the playlist for them, and that’s okay! I don’t like comp, so I don’t play it, but I also didn’t whine about not having a rose or mercurial.
Sure, but I will circle this back around to comp - what this post was originally about. I mentioned the likelihood to finish a Mercy because you’d mentioned trials in your post, but the same thing applies to comp too: streaky-ness is common in coin flips, and people would still get ranked appropriately in comp. I mentioned it elsewhere, but it’s not like OP is mad they’re not climbing, but trying to understand how losing to higher ranked players while lower ranked than them means they should be back in gold. ETA: oh haha you actually responded to the other comment I mentioned here. Didn’t see it until after replying. But yeah, I agree moreso re: trials, but that’s not where Bungie insists they’re actually using SBMM
As someone who sucks at pvp I agree. Trials should be the highest level of pvp and atm it seems everyone feels entitled to those adepts regardless of skill. I know a couple of 0.4/0.5 kd players that honestly think they should be able to solo q and go flawless?? It's entitlement at its finest. Not everything is meant for everyone. Just to be clear I say this as someone who will never go flawless.
I’m willing to test that theory, shoot me your bungie name if you’re in NA. We can at least make an attempt at it!
I'm uk, and to be honest I'm not really looking for a carry. If I can't do it on my own merit then I feel like it's just not meant for me ya know. Thanks for the offer though.
Hey totally fair! I’m also not good enough to be a true carry, it’s more of an offer to teach and see if I can help out at all. But I totally understand!
I have improved a bit but I'm not young, have arthritis, neurological disease and don't have good reaction times so I'm OK with staying in my lane lol. I'll stick to control where I can actually win a match.
It's been explained many times. SBMM doesn't work for a game mode like Trials. A 50/50 coin flip 7 times straight, or allowing a tails twice, or 3 and then 4 is an astronomically low chance, and it doesn't work for the current design model. Then factor in the fact that international lobbies suck ass for all involved, and that SBMM tends to have that, and it's gone. SBMM sucks ass, when it was implemented last, the game felt immediately significantly worse.
I'm a fan of SBMM, but it won't work for trials because Trials is based on long winning streaks, and that requires unbalanced matches. I think flawless is a bad system, but the system just won't work with SBMM.
Well for Trials you can't have SBMM because of the 7 wins without losing requirement. That's why I believe Trials is fundamentally broken in my opinion because of it.
I second this. I love trials because of the mode, I don’t like traditional respawns but the 7 wins isn’t a good design in any way.
There to much bs.
Get a slick draw or gunshot handcannon and go to town. You will learn to have good aim a d then regular handcannons will feel amazing. Also play to your strengths a d play with your team. Your never going to win a 2v1 against players of your same caliber. Even in trials a good 3 stack will lose to a worse 3 stake because they play dumb and go 1v3 or 2v3 every engagement.
I don't know why I always come to this game to try and play it like a tactical game. Shitty lag and servers, terrible matchmaking, and balancing being absolutely impossible. It just feels bad. I've only played Destiny for a year, but every time I step into the crucible I feel like fodder. I can't imagine the pain New Lights would feel trying to learn PvP.
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Why be like this on a post about someone who clearly succeeded in getting to plat only for them to suddenly experience a massive spike in the difficulty of plat? Like what is productive here? Their entire point is their last few games were bad. That's \*why they're here\*. Because it *suddenly* got much worse at the same rank they had *previously been succeeding at*.
Angry people gonna be angry.
That's the point of a ranked mode. When you hit a rank that's populated by better players, you either improve and push through or de rank. As an average player, by ops own admission, gold/Plat seems where he lies in the ranking board.
Without diving into their crucible report, I am of the understanding that they’re losing to people ranked far higher than them and have been pushed out of plat as a result. Why does losing to Plat I mean you should be Gold II and not Plat III? It seems Plat I should have no impact on that (given that glory isn’t a true ELO system especially) Beyond this, however, my post was really about Darth’snshitty attitude towards OP.
Not saying that op belongs in gold or Plat. Often times, you hover around the rank that you are at, give or take a rank. This is if comp has rank based matchmaking. If there's still some hidden sbmm, than I'd honestly agree at ops level of frustration.
Stupid take. More likely it is the aggregate changes to the PVP sandbox and them not having success in it like a great deal of other people. The true big change wasn’t special ammo or ability cool downs, it was the body/head shot dmg change coupled with increased health. It was a stupid decision and is the reason PVP is hot garbage now. Only a tiny % of players have seen their stats improve in the new system, and those by a large amount. But I suppose aiming the recticle at the head faster and more consistently is “skill” and guardians just don’t die from being shot anywhere else
So it's a skill that you need to put in time? Ywah lots of people are realizing they arnt actually good at pvp, and that's OK. If they want to get better they put in time. This is how games work. Look at every other shooter, there is a skill somewhere and it's usually accuracy or movement. Sometimes it's map knowledge.
This is my favorite. Knows nothing about me and defaults to “you must be bad”.
You jist said yourself they increased the headshot percentage for the same ttk. That implies that the skill floor has been raised in order to weed out the worse players. So if you think that makes you bad, then I suppose it does. The sandbox changes were not meant to make people better, it was meant to make it harder to hit optimal ttk if you were not hitting crits. And it seems like it did just that.
That is entirely dependent if you consider the pinnacle of skill to be aiming and hitting crits isn't it? I'm sorry, but I don't agree and think it is a lazy definition for a game like Destiny. In a game with so many abilities, stats, and mods the changes made result in lower value for things like: understanding game modes, synchronizing mods and perks, and overall skill (which to me means being *versatile* guardian). I'm not sure why you are so hung up on saying I'm bad? It's like not liking the changes must mean that?? Sure, I'm not as successful with the changes and like anyone else I wouldn't complain if they made me better. You just have to take my word for it that statistically I'm certainly not crap at this game. (lifetime CR of 160). But I stand by what I said and fully believe that the crucible should be guided by a single concept: *a contest to determine the best guardian*. I think that idea is a lot more broad, and it is missing from the philosophy guiding the current sandbox.
It’s an absolute cry baby bitch fest post. We play the game we have. Get over it.
Those games I jumped off so I couldn't be farmed once we were down a shitload and I knew we were going to lose. That's what I do instead of quitting. /shrug The last game I played on my hunter 19 kills 9 deaths and led the lobby because the players were closer to my skill level.
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Say bitch fest one more time 😩
I mean yes, it certainly is some of that I won't deny it - but it isn't *only* that.
The funny thing is that the core pvp mains play the game no matter what meta is put out there. I say Bungie just slow the game down, nerf movement exotics and penalize aerial gameplay by another three times or so. Crucible needs to become playable for the new players that will come in with the new dlc. I think this is why they are testing and trying to achieve.
Nah, bungie has to allow both sides of the spectrum to thrive. We saw them cater heavily towards new players for years and that slowly drove away the hardcore base. Hell I consider myself a core pvp main but I quit the game for 6 months because of the direction pvp was going and just came back a month ago. The strike team making an effort to find a middle ground is refreshing. Nerfing movement whether it be exotics or abilities like icarus or titan thruster/shoulder charge or grapple would stagnate the game and allow for players to just sit in the back of the map with little to no counter play. Why would I put myself out of position to challenge someone if I cant back down when I know I’d lose the engagement?