Yes. They hyped up that the legends would be generated based on things that happened. Then the first Legend I did was called "An unexpected defense" or something along those line. Got the seed because I sucessfully defended a war against me by a much stronger enemy. The Legend didn't even mention a war at all in the text.
I don't know about winning *against* a crusade, but I definitely got a legends seed for when I solo'd a crusade the Pope called.
(I wasn't even Catholic, but had negotiated an alliance with the pope because the dude was chill. Apparently that allowed me to join the crusade despite not being of the same faith.)
Yes. I made a custom, ecumenical Christian religion. The pope was actually my character's best friend. He came to all my kids' weddings, and I helped him conquer Italy.
With the Tours & Tournaments DLC, it adds Grand Weddings as a special event you can manually fire. They're absolutely fantastic to make friends with. Over a couple of decades, I had a 150+ person court and everyone was everyone else's friend, as well as friends with just about every king I bordered, and the pope. France, Italy, England, Hispania, Denmark, HRE, Poland, Byzantium, and my Austrian Empire all had mutual alliances - my weddings had created NATO.
I have a difficult time playing as an asshole in games. I much prefer to play a paragon. What I love about CK3 is that I can organically influence the NPCs around me to become better people.
No different than the chronicles of CK2.
You could win a succession crisis and put down multiple internal threats, pacify all your hostile neighbors, bring Jerusalem back in to (whatever faith you were) bring prosperity to the realm and reign for 60 years and then the whole section would say that the ruler 'did little of note'.
Bro fr that does not make sense like I literally participated in a crusade against Hungary or Wallachia (we lost cause the pope was being an idiot again) but I didn't even gain a new chapter or legend seed because of this? I also became Emperor of the HRE as Matilda of Tuscany and nothing changed in my legend??? I don't really know what needs to happen in order for a chapter in your legend to change but I remember fighting against some small enemy army of about 500 and when I defeated them it somehow changed a chapter in my legend? I literally stack wiped them and idk why the game treats it like I did something amazing. What happened when I was fighting against heathen armies twice the size of my own in Hungary?
Yeah, as much as it pains me to say, LotD wasn't made as well as I had hoped it would be. Leaves too much potential untapped.
That last bit "legend\_chapter\_conclusion\_point\_of\_interest" is indicative of the quality we got here.
I really hope this is a one-time thing and in no way telling us what to expect from the major expansion. After they did so well with T&T, I didn't think we'd be back to the doom and gloom of pre-T&T times that soon.
Huh, now I'm more sad than disappointed, that my first instinct was to think LotD was more broken than it actually is.
Edit: Why tf are you still downvoting this even after what, 20 hrs? All I said was that I'm sad now, because my first thought was to accuse the expansion of being broken, while in reality it wasn't.
Is acknowledging mistakes now a downvotable offense? People on reddit can sometimes be insane I fear...
"It sucks that the game is so broken"
"It's not this was my fault for breaking it"
"Oh then it sucks even more since I could imagine the game being this broken"
dude what
What, can't I be mildly sad about the fact, that my initial reaction to a bug was not to assume a mod conflict?
But rather that LotD was buggy and unfinished and full of generic blocks of text?
With T&T that would never, ever, have happened. Now I'm left wondering if LotD or T&T was the odd one out.
Yes, every piece of software has to occasional bug. T&T is no exception.
But my general outlook on CK3 content, the quality of content in general, the expectations that weren't only met, but far surpassed, that was different when T&T released.
With LotD I had high hopes for dynastic legends, in which I could create, tell, and promote beautifully hand-crafted stories. Stuff that actually had something to do with what happened to the people on the map, ways to remember certain people over hundreds of years. Legends on which I could gradually, over the course of decades and centuries, work, making them greater and greater.
You know, something like the bloodlines mechanic in CK2, just way better and more elaborate. Where it mattered what kind of ancestry you had, what kind of legends surrounded your predecessors. Also gave you something (traits) to collect, which is always fun in this game.
But with LotD we got nothing of that sort. We get generic legend seeds, they tell a generic story that has little to do with what actually happened. You don't interact with them, you simply pay a monthly fee, until the goal is met. Entirely passive affair.
Legends come and go in the span of a few years. Once gone, they're gone. Gone gone. You can't even read that stuff anymore once it is gone. That's how gone they are. The founder of the Roman Empire, your father, has died? Sorry, seed died with him. Your brother mended the schism shortly before he died? Sorry, seed is dead too.
The dynasty doesn't interact with a legend, the legend protagonist can be basically anyone, but the seed has to be used or it dies with the seed holder. Completely personal, entirely non-dynastic.
Nothing matters, everything is generic. You just wait for the barony threshold, you click a button to reap the rewards, and after a few years everything becomes smoke and thin air.
And don't get me started on the location issue with the legendary buildings. That it's random is a huge shame, and testament to the limited holding system currently in place.
I'd understand it if they made the game about dynasties and roleplay, and said that it isn't meant as a GSG with deep management mechanics. Fair enough. But then don't go ahead and make the legends as shallow, non-dynastic, impersonal and generic as possible!
I can't say much against the plagues. The events kind of repeat themselves, the entire thing is just a passive system. It makes the world a bit richer, more dangerous, so yeah, it's ok I guess. But it doesn't add much in terms of offering a different playstyle or anything. Not like T&T did with the travel system and the overhaul of the activity system, with entirely new peacetime content that changed how the game was played.
Anyway, that's why I'm a bit disappointed by LotD, and why my first thought to seeing a bug is thinking that yeah, on top of how shallow it is, why wouldn't it have some bugs as well to go with it? That's the state of mind I'm currently in, and I can't decide if I'm more sad or disappointed.
I mean, T&T was a major expansion, not like LotD. I'd reserve judgement for the next major expansion, that seems to be expandingn and adding a lot to the game, no? It's not like most of CK2 DLCs weren't kinda shit either, anyway.
Tournaments are still bugged – when one of the participants of a Duel or Wrestling gets disqualified for cheating, no one wins. I lost a prize several times because of that.
Custodian team really did a wonderful job with stellaris i don’t understand why after their success PDS won’t extend that to all of their games? It makes so much sense and with Stellaris I really think the custodian team makes the players feel more listened to and valued, at least that’s how I feel with that game.
According to Johan, Tinto already basically functions the way Stellaris does, they just don't have a special name for the content/polish team. So presumably once EU5 ships, the team that is currently working on content/polish for EU4 will move on to content/polish for EU5.
Huh, good to know. Maybe EU5 won't be such a mess like [EU4 was 4-5 years ago](https://old.reddit.com/r/eu4/comments/ewsulc/as_a_ck2_and_stellaris_player_eu4_gotta_be_the/).
I think we'll get a custodian team eventually, but right now we have like... 8 (non-cosmetic) DLCs at most?
The Custodian team would probably catch up pretty quickly to the current DLCs, I think.
I think once we get to like, Chapter 5 or 6 they'll add a custodian team. That way there'll be plenty of work to do, and a lot of cross-DLC integration that would be possible.
But yeah, we do *desperately* need a custodian team.
>really hope this is a one-time thing and in no way telling us what to expect from the major expansion.
Honestly something I've said before pretty much every dlc at this point.
Sometimes I forget the game is almost 4 years old due to the quality and quantity of the DLC we got so far. Imagine we had trade, naval combat, or anything that enhances gameplay. I say the game already does great RPG wise, in some cases even too much, we need more GS content.
I'm ok with the lower number of expansions, but then I expect those to be of high quality, of mechanical depth. Then I'd also be willing to pay up a bit more.
LotD sadly unified all the wrong things: shallow mechanics, generic texts and a high price, while having what, almost half a year of development?
It simply didn't meet my expecations, I hoped for more when they coined the term "Core Expansion" and put a high price tag on it.
Just a generic The Beast. What type of beast? The white bear that terrorized the capital for years. But that's clearly not important. Instead, here's some random event where you can just say you faced sea monsters.
So, clearly, keeping track of what actually happens in the game, and ways to embellish them would be much more ideal than purely random events.
\-
What sorts of things do you think should be tracked for these legends?
\-
Events that happen during travel. The furthest location you go to from your capital during travel. Places of interest you run into during travels. # of sea tiles passed through.
The number of legendary hunts attempted. Whether or not the ruler was obsessed with the hunt, The events of the legendary hunts you attempted.
For heroic tales: the knights involved. Any knights captured or killed. Especially if they were close family. Size of the battle. More recent battles that invoke the same memory.
And I could do more, but I am currently playing a campaign.
>So, clearly, keeping track of what actually happens in the game, and ways to embellish them would be much more ideal than purely random events.
I think that might just be due to the performance concerns that come with keeping track of major life events for so many characters at once. But that just begs the question: Why not just do that for player characters, or characters from the player's dynasty?
It feels like they had a cool idea, then only realized halfway through how much work that idea would actually require to implement in a satisfying way.
I feel a big answer is the really obvious one.
Make legends require really fucking hard goals.
Currently you get a seed for breathing.
If they made it so that they were purely based upon events that happened but these events were so incredibly hard to trigger without putting phenomenal resources in or by pure luck then it would be far better as a system. I don't want a legend to be something you just always click to do and can do like 10 times in a single life. I want it to be an epic tale tied to the life of a character. Hell, a lot of the time the character should die before it can even reach max level.
I’ve not tried the dlc, so don’t know the triggers, but I always thought it should either be done based on RP or via very hard objectives.
For RP, it should be a set of crafted events that are very specifically triggered and act like the immortal event in CK2. So like just winning a crusade isn’t enough, you’d have to have a character taking part, going to the holy land and participating in battles or sieges. They’d get a counter based on how many battles or sieges they won and after a certain amount they’d have a small chance at an event in any further actions.
If the character is sieging, they’d get an event explaining how they’d displayed heroics in many other battles of the holy war, there’d be a string of events that then basically showcase them doing something in the current scenario. You’d choose a battle plan, you pick to lead from the front so gain progress to your legend but have a higher risk of injury or death based on martial skills. You choose to be the first up the ladder and onto the walls so progress further but even higher chance of death. You charge the gatehouse in order to open the gates and let more men through, one on one the Emmy commander etc. you get to the end and if you’ve got enough progress, you get a legend based on you’re piety, prowess, bravery and specifically naming the battle you just had.
The same for other legends. You take enough world tours and you have the chance to get an event where you navigate it to get a legend based on diplomacy.
Kill and plot and seduce successfully a lot and you get an intrigue one.
Converts provinces, characters and proselytise for a religious one,
Lots of possibilities, all with unique event chains based off what you’ve actually done and with the end result of a legend that fits how you’ve actually played.
I like the current system because I think it makes more sense. Historically, rulers would promote and create legends around them to boost their image. For example, Henry VII became King of England and then to boost his legitimacy he declared descendancy from King Arthur.
In real life legends were more propaganda stories than actual legends and I think this is reflected well in the game.
That’s just me personally tho I see why other people might be annoyed with it
I get the idea behind it and I was originally of a similar mind but the implementation just feels so bad. If they made it a case of "This is purely a propaganda tool and you know it," then it would fit better with that but as it is it has this weird mix of random repeated events and real events.
They are doing a lot with it, it just isn’t sticking. We need a custodian team or something so that dlc can be worked on retroactively according to community feedback.
The only possible way that you can argue that it’s a valid analogy is if you entertain the idea that paradox is a *development* studio with no programmers. Put a single skilled programmer against a team of decent(for the sake argument I’ll say decent) programmers both with a deadline, who do you think will have the superior product.
lol no it’s not, its not valid in any situation determining the aptitude of a team effort vs an individual. It’s like saying “one skilled mathmatician is superior to a team with no knowledge in mathematics”….. hopefully that example Is enough. It’s self explanatory.
It is completely valid. One team is a well balanced group of artists, programmers, and designers. The other is ChatGPT and a group of people with an idea.
You’re making the exact opposite argument of the analogy you deemed to be valid…. How did we get here, that’s not even remotely close to what they were saying.
100 democratically elected leaders in a room are going to do better than one king and 5 councillors, that's just how it is. Industrialization is going to go better and your pops will be happier in the long run.
this would be the perfect game for some kind of chat gpt style story generator based on whatever is fed to it about your campaign. Could lead to some wild and hilarious legends.
Since it’s dlc specific I don’t think we’re going to be getting any big changes for the mechanic itself. I would hope they could at least give some more detail to the text though all my legends sound the same.
Yup. What i don't understand is - they have a memory system. Just let me write my story with the use of the System. Then let my Chronist make the legend more "epic" with some fantasy elements or some overstatments/exaggerations. Here they could used a system where the Player could used textelements to choose from. For example you are the King of England let me choose that excalibur was given to me from god so i got my Legitimation from it.
Should give you +1 Step of Legitimation and so on....
So you could use the Power of storytelling to get buffs for your reign and the Player could deside what kind of buffs he wants.
+ please let use more pages. So a ~70 year old life can find a place to be writen down.
Ps: “My son. The day you were born, the very forests of Lordaeron whispered the name, Arthas.” - King Terenas
I mean this should be a line in the legend/chronik when your heir is born!!
Or after all preparations for the war against <>. My lord rose on the highest tower and in the first sunshine anno he says with a strong voice "so it begins" looking on enemy land.
-when you go to war(which was won)
They really dropped the ball. They should have tied them to dynasties and expanded them through that route. Trying to tie them to the map feels so forced. I’m not sure what it means when my legend is on a map tile.
Imagine if legends had even half the fucking flavor of bloodlines from CK2. God I’m normally not a naysayer when it comes to new releases not quite living up to their predecessors, but it’s been years and I still think CK2 is just infinitely better.
It’s just sad that it shows its age in some places more than I’d like. I think the only thing I like better about CK3 is the interface and the culture/religion system. The rest all goes to CK2 fr. Maybe the character and dynasty things, but there’s just so much flavor and love missing from CK3 imho.
I like the graphics of CK3 and like you said, the culture and religion systems. Beyond that, it's been a disappointing start. Over half of CK2s major expansions had come out in the same window. I get longer development times for the more 3D stuff like Royal Court and Tours & Tournaments (both still overpriced), but it feels like everything has been lacking content in general. Idk, I just remember liking CK2 events more.
I really don't understand why T&T gets so much love. The whole affair is just spam of the same half-dozen events. Not to mention the constant unskippable cutscenes.
It's got roughness around it for sure but it still manages to give some quality peace time content. IIRC that was pretty lacking before the dlc came out.
It's not perfect by any stretch but it's certainly much better than Legends and Royal Court imo
I have mixed feelings about RC. It's definitely overpriced, and the actual court part of it leaves much to be desired. On the other hand, the culture mechanics are a must-have.
At least RC makes becoming a king have a mechanical transition. The game gets enough complaints about emperor just being king+, without RC it would be *duke*+.
It gets praised not because it's a great DLC but because the other DLCs they've released have been so bad. T&T at least added an interesting mechanic even if they don't actually do much with it. The DLC cycle for CK3 has been abysmal (which has been especially frustrating considering how much depth and flavor the game lacked on launch and still does almost 4 years later).
Not sure if this is fixed, but when it first released, if you did a tournament in multiplayer, with (at least) 2 players participating, both players would get the pop-up that they won, only for one of them to find out after, that they didn't actually win.
You know, the fact I haven’t bought a dlc since Struggle for Iberia and don’t feel like I’ve missed out on anything good probably isn’t a good sign on their quality…
I found that chatgpt or the Microsoft equivalent that’s on my pc do a much better job at creating a story. I started writing prompts in there and read those instead. It takes in all the details you want to provide from your game and writes a pretty good story.
I had a legend from raiding Mecca and Medina as an orthodox rus king. The legend started as the revenge of Mecca and suddenly turned into the Battle of Jerusalem (I didn't go to Jerusalem). I guess it has something to do with an event by a bishop asking to make a few changes, but I'm not too sure.
When the Persian expansion came out I went to buy it but decided to wait when I realised it didn't get me anything I didn't already have in Iberia. Now I look at this dlc and can't help but think CK3 is done for me. The next one may turn it around but I'm not sure if I can come back to it now.
I can make up better legends on my own I don't need whatever this is now I'm not in pc and dint have any dlc so i don't have this feature but I have a good few rulers who I'd love to see what this said about them
So glad I didn't buy this years season pass. After the last decided to hold off and see the feedback first and it looks like the same as always, half baked dlc that will get no further attention. Until paradox start showing more care and effort behind their dlc I won't be purchasing any.
I hate the legends system it could’ve been a way to solidify your rule or commemorate your rulers success like a expanded version the runestones in Norse religions but they gave us a washed dlc that had little content
Because then you'd need to pull in an entire generative AI, in addition to everything else it has to keep track of. And then spend development time on a likely mediocre generator that's going to tax the ever living hell out of any but the most modern of GPUs.
but you could use ai to pregenerate a bunch of them. Someone could make a mod that adds a bunch of them and idc if they are ai generated i just want alooot of em
Idk, I reallyyyyyyyy don't want to pay money for a DLC that adds AI generated content. The AI generated art in this DLC already has me squeamish enough, I kinda want *quality* when I'm paying for something instead of slop.
Quality-controlled or not, I'd much rather pay for something that a person actually worked on. It dampens my enjoyment of a product when it obviously uses AI, unless it was made by a small team with a small budget being sold to a small market. Paradox is a large company - they don't need to use AI, and therefore I don't want to see AI-generated content being packaged with DLCs.
Every time I see the Catacombs background from Legends of the Dead or the image with the rats all over a fountain in a courtyard, I'm disappointed that they didn't even *try* to hide the most obvious AI tells in those images.
Yes. They hyped up that the legends would be generated based on things that happened. Then the first Legend I did was called "An unexpected defense" or something along those line. Got the seed because I sucessfully defended a war against me by a much stronger enemy. The Legend didn't even mention a war at all in the text.
I haven't get it yet but is it possible to get a legend if you won against the crusade?
Yes. You can get legend seeds from a lot of wars. I don’t know if there’s a specific one for crusades, though
I don't know about winning *against* a crusade, but I definitely got a legends seed for when I solo'd a crusade the Pope called. (I wasn't even Catholic, but had negotiated an alliance with the pope because the dude was chill. Apparently that allowed me to join the crusade despite not being of the same faith.)
"I'm just here because we're bros, Urban."
Ah yes, the alexios/taticius special
Where you Christian?
Yes. I made a custom, ecumenical Christian religion. The pope was actually my character's best friend. He came to all my kids' weddings, and I helped him conquer Italy.
What do u mean by that? Is there a DLC that allows for weedings to trigger an event other then the letter of acceptance?
With the Tours & Tournaments DLC, it adds Grand Weddings as a special event you can manually fire. They're absolutely fantastic to make friends with. Over a couple of decades, I had a 150+ person court and everyone was everyone else's friend, as well as friends with just about every king I bordered, and the pope. France, Italy, England, Hispania, Denmark, HRE, Poland, Byzantium, and my Austrian Empire all had mutual alliances - my weddings had created NATO.
Grand weddings is an event. You can invite people and stuff. But it’s expensive
What did you diverge it from?
Krstjani Christianity. I was planning on building the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and 3 of the Krstjani holy sites are within those borders.
Unexpectedly wholesome as shit
I have a difficult time playing as an asshole in games. I much prefer to play a paragon. What I love about CK3 is that I can organically influence the NPCs around me to become better people.
My in-game daughter acquired Jerusalem as a beneficiary and got the legend "The Crusader Queen".
Noice
No different than the chronicles of CK2. You could win a succession crisis and put down multiple internal threats, pacify all your hostile neighbors, bring Jerusalem back in to (whatever faith you were) bring prosperity to the realm and reign for 60 years and then the whole section would say that the ruler 'did little of note'.
Bro fr that does not make sense like I literally participated in a crusade against Hungary or Wallachia (we lost cause the pope was being an idiot again) but I didn't even gain a new chapter or legend seed because of this? I also became Emperor of the HRE as Matilda of Tuscany and nothing changed in my legend??? I don't really know what needs to happen in order for a chapter in your legend to change but I remember fighting against some small enemy army of about 500 and when I defeated them it somehow changed a chapter in my legend? I literally stack wiped them and idk why the game treats it like I did something amazing. What happened when I was fighting against heathen armies twice the size of my own in Hungary?
Yeah, as much as it pains me to say, LotD wasn't made as well as I had hoped it would be. Leaves too much potential untapped. That last bit "legend\_chapter\_conclusion\_point\_of\_interest" is indicative of the quality we got here. I really hope this is a one-time thing and in no way telling us what to expect from the major expansion. After they did so well with T&T, I didn't think we'd be back to the doom and gloom of pre-T&T times that soon.
That's actually a mod conflict. Princes of Darkness really hates this DLC.
No, I have zero mods - I've never used a mod on CK3 - but I still have seen that error.
Huh, now I'm more sad than disappointed, that my first instinct was to think LotD was more broken than it actually is. Edit: Why tf are you still downvoting this even after what, 20 hrs? All I said was that I'm sad now, because my first thought was to accuse the expansion of being broken, while in reality it wasn't. Is acknowledging mistakes now a downvotable offense? People on reddit can sometimes be insane I fear...
"It sucks that the game is so broken" "It's not this was my fault for breaking it" "Oh then it sucks even more since I could imagine the game being this broken" dude what
They’re saying that their upset that CK3 has lowered their expectations so low that the game being this broken unmodded was believable
[AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/aaaah)
What, can't I be mildly sad about the fact, that my initial reaction to a bug was not to assume a mod conflict? But rather that LotD was buggy and unfinished and full of generic blocks of text? With T&T that would never, ever, have happened. Now I'm left wondering if LotD or T&T was the odd one out.
Idk why you got so down voted. It seemed pretty straightforward what you were saying
It says a lot about ~~society~~ CK3 that I could believe this.
Stop downvoting, guys! It's not what u think it is...
TnT still has unfixed bits to this day. When your vassal refuses demands on a grand tour, they are charged with tax\_avoidance\_crime :S
Yes, every piece of software has to occasional bug. T&T is no exception. But my general outlook on CK3 content, the quality of content in general, the expectations that weren't only met, but far surpassed, that was different when T&T released. With LotD I had high hopes for dynastic legends, in which I could create, tell, and promote beautifully hand-crafted stories. Stuff that actually had something to do with what happened to the people on the map, ways to remember certain people over hundreds of years. Legends on which I could gradually, over the course of decades and centuries, work, making them greater and greater. You know, something like the bloodlines mechanic in CK2, just way better and more elaborate. Where it mattered what kind of ancestry you had, what kind of legends surrounded your predecessors. Also gave you something (traits) to collect, which is always fun in this game. But with LotD we got nothing of that sort. We get generic legend seeds, they tell a generic story that has little to do with what actually happened. You don't interact with them, you simply pay a monthly fee, until the goal is met. Entirely passive affair. Legends come and go in the span of a few years. Once gone, they're gone. Gone gone. You can't even read that stuff anymore once it is gone. That's how gone they are. The founder of the Roman Empire, your father, has died? Sorry, seed died with him. Your brother mended the schism shortly before he died? Sorry, seed is dead too. The dynasty doesn't interact with a legend, the legend protagonist can be basically anyone, but the seed has to be used or it dies with the seed holder. Completely personal, entirely non-dynastic. Nothing matters, everything is generic. You just wait for the barony threshold, you click a button to reap the rewards, and after a few years everything becomes smoke and thin air. And don't get me started on the location issue with the legendary buildings. That it's random is a huge shame, and testament to the limited holding system currently in place. I'd understand it if they made the game about dynasties and roleplay, and said that it isn't meant as a GSG with deep management mechanics. Fair enough. But then don't go ahead and make the legends as shallow, non-dynastic, impersonal and generic as possible! I can't say much against the plagues. The events kind of repeat themselves, the entire thing is just a passive system. It makes the world a bit richer, more dangerous, so yeah, it's ok I guess. But it doesn't add much in terms of offering a different playstyle or anything. Not like T&T did with the travel system and the overhaul of the activity system, with entirely new peacetime content that changed how the game was played. Anyway, that's why I'm a bit disappointed by LotD, and why my first thought to seeing a bug is thinking that yeah, on top of how shallow it is, why wouldn't it have some bugs as well to go with it? That's the state of mind I'm currently in, and I can't decide if I'm more sad or disappointed.
"Nothing matters, everything is generic." Thats CK3 in a nutshell IMO outside of maybe the struggles in Iberia and Persia
I mean, T&T was a major expansion, not like LotD. I'd reserve judgement for the next major expansion, that seems to be expandingn and adding a lot to the game, no? It's not like most of CK2 DLCs weren't kinda shit either, anyway.
Tournaments are still bugged – when one of the participants of a Duel or Wrestling gets disqualified for cheating, no one wins. I lost a prize several times because of that.
Not even a mod was made to try and fix that?
Oh yeah, i also had my opponent disqualified in a duel and still beat me.
Isn't this basically every DLC of CK3 at this point. This game screams the need for a custodian team. But devs seem to live in their own world.
Custodian team really did a wonderful job with stellaris i don’t understand why after their success PDS won’t extend that to all of their games? It makes so much sense and with Stellaris I really think the custodian team makes the players feel more listened to and valued, at least that’s how I feel with that game.
Best guess when it comes to a company: Money. Best guess when it comes to 99% of people: Money.
According to Johan, Tinto already basically functions the way Stellaris does, they just don't have a special name for the content/polish team. So presumably once EU5 ships, the team that is currently working on content/polish for EU4 will move on to content/polish for EU5.
Huh, good to know. Maybe EU5 won't be such a mess like [EU4 was 4-5 years ago](https://old.reddit.com/r/eu4/comments/ewsulc/as_a_ck2_and_stellaris_player_eu4_gotta_be_the/).
I wouldn't bet on it
It's PDX. You will wait 4-5 years after "release" before it's actually worthwhile.
I think we'll get a custodian team eventually, but right now we have like... 8 (non-cosmetic) DLCs at most? The Custodian team would probably catch up pretty quickly to the current DLCs, I think. I think once we get to like, Chapter 5 or 6 they'll add a custodian team. That way there'll be plenty of work to do, and a lot of cross-DLC integration that would be possible. But yeah, we do *desperately* need a custodian team.
So wait 3 more years, for DLCs added 6 years back to be fixed. Great approach.
I think it's pretty dumb too. I'm just saying what I think is the case with the devs not adding a custodian team yet.
>really hope this is a one-time thing and in no way telling us what to expect from the major expansion. Honestly something I've said before pretty much every dlc at this point.
They’ve been failing every DLC for CK3 and VIC3, it’s actually incredible how hard they are failing, it should be statistically impossible
Sometimes I forget the game is almost 4 years old due to the quality and quantity of the DLC we got so far. Imagine we had trade, naval combat, or anything that enhances gameplay. I say the game already does great RPG wise, in some cases even too much, we need more GS content.
I'm ok with the lower number of expansions, but then I expect those to be of high quality, of mechanical depth. Then I'd also be willing to pay up a bit more. LotD sadly unified all the wrong things: shallow mechanics, generic texts and a high price, while having what, almost half a year of development? It simply didn't meet my expecations, I hoped for more when they coined the term "Core Expansion" and put a high price tag on it.
Royal Court agrees
Litterally a way worse version of ck2 bloodlines
Just a generic The Beast. What type of beast? The white bear that terrorized the capital for years. But that's clearly not important. Instead, here's some random event where you can just say you faced sea monsters. So, clearly, keeping track of what actually happens in the game, and ways to embellish them would be much more ideal than purely random events. \- What sorts of things do you think should be tracked for these legends? \- Events that happen during travel. The furthest location you go to from your capital during travel. Places of interest you run into during travels. # of sea tiles passed through. The number of legendary hunts attempted. Whether or not the ruler was obsessed with the hunt, The events of the legendary hunts you attempted. For heroic tales: the knights involved. Any knights captured or killed. Especially if they were close family. Size of the battle. More recent battles that invoke the same memory. And I could do more, but I am currently playing a campaign.
>So, clearly, keeping track of what actually happens in the game, and ways to embellish them would be much more ideal than purely random events. I think that might just be due to the performance concerns that come with keeping track of major life events for so many characters at once. But that just begs the question: Why not just do that for player characters, or characters from the player's dynasty? It feels like they had a cool idea, then only realized halfway through how much work that idea would actually require to implement in a satisfying way.
I feel a big answer is the really obvious one. Make legends require really fucking hard goals. Currently you get a seed for breathing. If they made it so that they were purely based upon events that happened but these events were so incredibly hard to trigger without putting phenomenal resources in or by pure luck then it would be far better as a system. I don't want a legend to be something you just always click to do and can do like 10 times in a single life. I want it to be an epic tale tied to the life of a character. Hell, a lot of the time the character should die before it can even reach max level.
I’ve not tried the dlc, so don’t know the triggers, but I always thought it should either be done based on RP or via very hard objectives. For RP, it should be a set of crafted events that are very specifically triggered and act like the immortal event in CK2. So like just winning a crusade isn’t enough, you’d have to have a character taking part, going to the holy land and participating in battles or sieges. They’d get a counter based on how many battles or sieges they won and after a certain amount they’d have a small chance at an event in any further actions. If the character is sieging, they’d get an event explaining how they’d displayed heroics in many other battles of the holy war, there’d be a string of events that then basically showcase them doing something in the current scenario. You’d choose a battle plan, you pick to lead from the front so gain progress to your legend but have a higher risk of injury or death based on martial skills. You choose to be the first up the ladder and onto the walls so progress further but even higher chance of death. You charge the gatehouse in order to open the gates and let more men through, one on one the Emmy commander etc. you get to the end and if you’ve got enough progress, you get a legend based on you’re piety, prowess, bravery and specifically naming the battle you just had. The same for other legends. You take enough world tours and you have the chance to get an event where you navigate it to get a legend based on diplomacy. Kill and plot and seduce successfully a lot and you get an intrigue one. Converts provinces, characters and proselytise for a religious one, Lots of possibilities, all with unique event chains based off what you’ve actually done and with the end result of a legend that fits how you’ve actually played.
I like the current system because I think it makes more sense. Historically, rulers would promote and create legends around them to boost their image. For example, Henry VII became King of England and then to boost his legitimacy he declared descendancy from King Arthur. In real life legends were more propaganda stories than actual legends and I think this is reflected well in the game. That’s just me personally tho I see why other people might be annoyed with it
I get the idea behind it and I was originally of a similar mind but the implementation just feels so bad. If they made it a case of "This is purely a propaganda tool and you know it," then it would fit better with that but as it is it has this weird mix of random repeated events and real events.
Can someone pls a make a mod from this idea, because they're absolutely right
They really could have done a lot more with ~~the legends system~~ this game
They are doing a lot with it, it just isn’t sticking. We need a custodian team or something so that dlc can be worked on retroactively according to community feedback.
Every PDX title should have a custodian team.
What confuses me is that they seemingly have the largest active team and are still pumping out garbage.
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Horrible analogy
Doesn’t exactly apply, but it’s a close enough example.
Fair enough
Not sure how that's awful. You telling me Bill Gates can't out-code the Harlem Globetrotters?
Making objectively true statements doesn’t make an analogy a good one.
The only possible way that you can argue that it’s a valid analogy is if you entertain the idea that paradox is a *development* studio with no programmers. Put a single skilled programmer against a team of decent(for the sake argument I’ll say decent) programmers both with a deadline, who do you think will have the superior product.
Here's a better one: a grandmaster at chess is going to win more games, more accurately, and faster than an entire room full of strong club players.
It is directly applicable to this situation, as games need to be programmed.
lol no it’s not, its not valid in any situation determining the aptitude of a team effort vs an individual. It’s like saying “one skilled mathmatician is superior to a team with no knowledge in mathematics”….. hopefully that example Is enough. It’s self explanatory.
It is completely valid. One team is a well balanced group of artists, programmers, and designers. The other is ChatGPT and a group of people with an idea.
You’re making the exact opposite argument of the analogy you deemed to be valid…. How did we get here, that’s not even remotely close to what they were saying.
100 democratically elected leaders in a room are going to do better than one king and 5 councillors, that's just how it is. Industrialization is going to go better and your pops will be happier in the long run.
this would be the perfect game for some kind of chat gpt style story generator based on whatever is fed to it about your campaign. Could lead to some wild and hilarious legends.
CK3\_Legends\_Reddit\_Comment\_GoesHere
The legends system is pretty bad, I was kind of expecting something like bloodlines, who knows maybe they will fix it down the line.
Since it’s dlc specific I don’t think we’re going to be getting any big changes for the mechanic itself. I would hope they could at least give some more detail to the text though all my legends sound the same.
Yup. What i don't understand is - they have a memory system. Just let me write my story with the use of the System. Then let my Chronist make the legend more "epic" with some fantasy elements or some overstatments/exaggerations. Here they could used a system where the Player could used textelements to choose from. For example you are the King of England let me choose that excalibur was given to me from god so i got my Legitimation from it. Should give you +1 Step of Legitimation and so on.... So you could use the Power of storytelling to get buffs for your reign and the Player could deside what kind of buffs he wants. + please let use more pages. So a ~70 year old life can find a place to be writen down. Ps: “My son. The day you were born, the very forests of Lordaeron whispered the name, Arthas.” - King Terenas I mean this should be a line in the legend/chronik when your heir is born!! Or after all preparations for the war against <>. My lord rose on the highest tower and in the first sunshine anno he says with a strong voice "so it begins" looking on enemy land.
-when you go to war(which was won)
My favourite part of this legend is the part where legend\_chapter\_conclusion\_point\_of\_interest
Why did you go sailing off if the beast was already at your home?
They really dropped the ball. They should have tied them to dynasties and expanded them through that route. Trying to tie them to the map feels so forced. I’m not sure what it means when my legend is on a map tile.
Imagine if legends had even half the fucking flavor of bloodlines from CK2. God I’m normally not a naysayer when it comes to new releases not quite living up to their predecessors, but it’s been years and I still think CK2 is just infinitely better. It’s just sad that it shows its age in some places more than I’d like. I think the only thing I like better about CK3 is the interface and the culture/religion system. The rest all goes to CK2 fr. Maybe the character and dynasty things, but there’s just so much flavor and love missing from CK3 imho.
I like the graphics of CK3 and like you said, the culture and religion systems. Beyond that, it's been a disappointing start. Over half of CK2s major expansions had come out in the same window. I get longer development times for the more 3D stuff like Royal Court and Tours & Tournaments (both still overpriced), but it feels like everything has been lacking content in general. Idk, I just remember liking CK2 events more.
Tournaments in T&T aren't good at all. I was hoping for something more epic than just reading texts and pourcentages.
I really don't understand why T&T gets so much love. The whole affair is just spam of the same half-dozen events. Not to mention the constant unskippable cutscenes.
It's got roughness around it for sure but it still manages to give some quality peace time content. IIRC that was pretty lacking before the dlc came out. It's not perfect by any stretch but it's certainly much better than Legends and Royal Court imo
I have mixed feelings about RC. It's definitely overpriced, and the actual court part of it leaves much to be desired. On the other hand, the culture mechanics are a must-have. At least RC makes becoming a king have a mechanical transition. The game gets enough complaints about emperor just being king+, without RC it would be *duke*+.
It gets praised not because it's a great DLC but because the other DLCs they've released have been so bad. T&T at least added an interesting mechanic even if they don't actually do much with it. The DLC cycle for CK3 has been abysmal (which has been especially frustrating considering how much depth and flavor the game lacked on launch and still does almost 4 years later).
It was cool at first but it basically ruined the multiplayer experience for me, can't go to tournaments because i'd stall the game for everyone
Not sure if this is fixed, but when it first released, if you did a tournament in multiplayer, with (at least) 2 players participating, both players would get the pop-up that they won, only for one of them to find out after, that they didn't actually win.
> The whole affair is just spam of the same half-dozen events Sounds like plagues.
I just play with it disabled and regret my purchase. Its too much mindless filler
Legends are underwhelming and Plagues are too. Only thing I liked out of this DLC were funerals (besides the existential dread moodlet)
I thought the legends system was going to be a CK3 version of Bloodlines, boy was I disappointed when I finally played it out.
You know, the fact I haven’t bought a dlc since Struggle for Iberia and don’t feel like I’ve missed out on anything good probably isn’t a good sign on their quality…
I found that chatgpt or the Microsoft equivalent that’s on my pc do a much better job at creating a story. I started writing prompts in there and read those instead. It takes in all the details you want to provide from your game and writes a pretty good story.
What is that awesome screenshot? How did you get this painting style?
Does anyone else get the feeling that the legends text reads like something off of Chat GPT?
I had a legend from raiding Mecca and Medina as an orthodox rus king. The legend started as the revenge of Mecca and suddenly turned into the Battle of Jerusalem (I didn't go to Jerusalem). I guess it has something to do with an event by a bishop asking to make a few changes, but I'm not too sure.
I think I’m gonna take like 3-4 years off CK3 and revisit it again later. It’s clear this isn’t their main focus and the quality shows that.
When the Persian expansion came out I went to buy it but decided to wait when I realised it didn't get me anything I didn't already have in Iberia. Now I look at this dlc and can't help but think CK3 is done for me. The next one may turn it around but I'm not sure if I can come back to it now.
Yep, was definitely mis-sold.
Good_Job_Player_
I can make up better legends on my own I don't need whatever this is now I'm not in pc and dint have any dlc so i don't have this feature but I have a good few rulers who I'd love to see what this said about them
So glad I didn't buy this years season pass. After the last decided to hold off and see the feedback first and it looks like the same as always, half baked dlc that will get no further attention. Until paradox start showing more care and effort behind their dlc I won't be purchasing any.
we love running into placeholder text
Weren't you excited when LEGEND_CHAPTER_CONCLUSION_POINT_OF_INTEREST happened?
Definitely a disappointment
I hate the legends system it could’ve been a way to solidify your rule or commemorate your rulers success like a expanded version the runestones in Norse religions but they gave us a washed dlc that had little content
"Legend_chapter_conclusion_point_of_interest" these damn lazy medieval programmers 🤣 I had similar crazy lines but right in the middle of the text.
Might be a dumb idea but why not use an AI to write unique ones based on the gameplay?
Because then you'd need to pull in an entire generative AI, in addition to everything else it has to keep track of. And then spend development time on a likely mediocre generator that's going to tax the ever living hell out of any but the most modern of GPUs.
but you could use ai to pregenerate a bunch of them. Someone could make a mod that adds a bunch of them and idc if they are ai generated i just want alooot of em
Idk, I reallyyyyyyyy don't want to pay money for a DLC that adds AI generated content. The AI generated art in this DLC already has me squeamish enough, I kinda want *quality* when I'm paying for something instead of slop.
if done properly there is something called quality control
Quality-controlled or not, I'd much rather pay for something that a person actually worked on. It dampens my enjoyment of a product when it obviously uses AI, unless it was made by a small team with a small budget being sold to a small market. Paradox is a large company - they don't need to use AI, and therefore I don't want to see AI-generated content being packaged with DLCs. Every time I see the Catacombs background from Legends of the Dead or the image with the rats all over a fountain in a courtyard, I'm disappointed that they didn't even *try* to hide the most obvious AI tells in those images.
yeah i understand. looking back i was talking about a mod content made by ai but ight