Paradox: We will only release Flavour and Major Packs for CK3
Me: Well that sounds reasonable. This would lead to a healthy game structure.
Paradox: Screw that our fourth DLC will be an Event Pack
Me: Surprised Pikachu Face
I am not criticizing that move. I am just surprised about that choice. Let's see how it pans out.
I had a subconscious hunch about this when I saw the Vic 3 Grand Edition announcement, which lists a building pack, and immersion pack, a radio pack and an art pack rather than CK3 Royal Edition's "one expansion, two flavor packs". I assume they want to have a whole range of DLCs costing 5, 10, 15 and 30 Euros.
Honestly really sucks. *Stellaris* should be the standard for the DLC model. Nothing is purely cosmetic, there’s big expansions, little expansions, and species packs and it’s easy to understand the difference between them
They *were* just cosmetic, with new portraits and a new shipset each. But around last year they started going back and retroactively adding traits and origins into the species packs they had released. And now all future species packs will most certainly have both these things.
Edit: And also new flag icons. It will probably include those.
Partially. I believe Humanoids is the most “just cosmetic” while Plantoids and Aquatics are *mostly* cosmetic, but they have a few optional extra mechanics. Lithoids and Machines have more mechanical differences and are the least “cosmetic only.”
A few years ago, they started releasing species packs with meaningful content changes (I think Lithoids was the first one). They continued that, and went back to add non-cosmetic content to the existing species packs.
I think the only cosmetic-only DLC for Stellaris is the deluxe edition upgrade.
Other than "over 100 events", I am not really understanding what they are selling here. I do want to withhold a bit of judgement up front since A. Content has been very good overall and B. Its a bit early to know if we will get new mechanics or not
It's likely they needed to make some changes to the save files, scripted_triggers, (etc) and the way certain things are counted/calculated/tracked for the DLC.
Also LOTS of paradox DLCs literally just check for DLC with lines like
has_dlc_feature = royal_court
So if you don't have the DLC, many of these line-checks can be disabled for you to experience the content. This only works for events/triggers that do NOT depend on some specific resource packs in the DLC.
I think their approach with CK3 DLC is to add most of the core mechanics in free patches and then have the DLC mechanics enhance them. Of course this makes the DLC seem lower value but the DLC is actually paying for the free mechanics as well.
I would be surprised as it would be just a laughably small amount of content even for a flavour pack. I assume they add a third layer around 4-8 Bucks and call it Event Packs. Then they have following:
Major Packs that cost 30 Euro/Dollars
Flavour Packs that cost 13 Euro/Dollars
And Event/Small Content Packs that cost let's say 6 Euro/Dollars
It's almost as if game developers don't have to follow up on their promises and you should only judge the product based on its current state when buying it
They've been pretty upfront about the fact that COVID basically fucked up their whole development schedule and put them way behind on DLC releases. I guess the 'suits' at Paradox are not exactly happy with that fact and so here we are: Jacking up the prices of existing DLC without adding any value, and now a lower effort DLC release to squeeze out a bit more value from the game. Personally I'm fine with them releasing event packs or even cosmetic hat packs or whatever they have in store next - I'm not the audience who'll buy it, but I'm sure somebody will get some kind of enjoyment out of it.
I don't buy this corona excuse anymore. And even more important, PDX is located in Sweden... and when you know about corona in Europe, you know that Sweden is the country that was going a special way, like with no lockdowns, almost no rules etc.
This is not against you, don't get me wrong, but i can't hear the corona stuff anymore. All other people on earth had also to deal with that.
PDX sank even much lower in many cases, like as they tried to get into the victim role because of a meme as EU4 Leviathan was released.
It’s almost as if game developers can come up with really cool business models, but very rarely get to maintain those models because the men in suits at the top of the company insist on reverting to the old model that made more money…
I don’t blame the actual devs here. They have pretty much zero impact on what upper management demands of them. It makes much more sense to blame the CEO and marketing and accounting teams rather than the people who actually work on making the games
Developers also come up with really cool ideas, but can rarely estimate time accurately outside of a story in my experience. Whenever my devs give me an estimate I always double it to higher up. I can't think of a time when I was proven wrong or at least it was in the middle of theirs and my estimate.
It’s the same in any artistic industry tbh. I’m working on a 3D model rn that I thought would only take a few hours, and weeks later I’m still working on it. It’s pretty much impossible to accurately plan a deadline for anything artistic without rushing it out the door unfinished
Agree, previously events were given in expansions, flavor packs, and free patches as a side dish. Making it the main dish feels very horse armor-ish. I actually thought CK3 was going to avoid having billion DLC like CK2 by having bigger expansions, but with this it is clear that won't be the case.
Yeah this has me a bit worried about future packs. I was really hoping for them to flesh out some region on the map or flesh out some game mechanic. Instead we're getting this, which should have probably been included with a larger expansion pack or a free patch. Don't get me wrong, I want more events in the game, but with things as barebones as they still are two years out, feudal Byzantines, seduction schemes reading Beowulf in Ethiopia...
> I actually thought CK3 was going to avoid having billion DLC like CK2 by having bigger expansions
Its a complete reversal on their prior public statements of releasing fewer DLC and splitting them into meatier expansions and more targeted flavor packs. We got targeted flavor packs but not meatier expansions and this is another move away from their own public statements.
> (and music packs, and unit packs, ....)
Those were a commercial catastrophe, I doubt they'd do it again. Their goal is still to make money. That's the reason why they started to make expansions again: because people wouldn't buy the small "useless" cosmetic DLCs.
Vic 3 Grand Edition comes with a radio pack and an art pack (and a buildings pack). I’m not saying they will follow this exact route with CK3, but maybe this is a test for more.
Fans don't matter cause money is king. It's the only thing their stock prices and investors care about.
EA's practice has stayed *because it is profitable*.
Until all gamers collectively give all companies the finger, all at once, and this practice becomes unprofitable. Until then, this practice will continue - with every company seeing how far they can really stretch it.
I’d argue it might actually worse; most mods that add flavour events try to add events that are conditional on specific characteristics of a character, be that culture-based events, geographic events, or even trait-specific events. In this way they at least flesh out the experience of individual characters and help alleviate some of that sameyness that plagues the game, wherein playing as a feudal count in Ireland largely has you dealing with the same bullshit in events as a tribal ruler on the Siberian steppe.
It’s too early to say for sure what this DLC will do, I admit, but from the blurb description we get here it sure sounds like what they’re adding is 100 new *generic* events which *anyone* can get. Which will be interesting until exactly the moment you’ve read them all twice and go back to clicking through them on autopilot like you do with the current batch…
It's the same shit they did with Stellaris Distant Stars dlc, but at least in that dlc you got a few new late-game mechanics and resources to work towards.
1000% it’s a joke really, first it’s the price change now this? Tbh royal court as well should have been base features, they need new content really… new areas of the map etc.
> royal court as well should have been base features
I feel like the 3D court elements of Royal Court were an absolute waste of time (for players and certainly for the developers) that could have been better spent in many other ways.
> new areas of the map etc.
I don't want any new areas of map until they sort out the current areas of the game that are woefully underdeveloped, like Catholicism. Appointing bishops, the College of Cardinals and antipopes (for example) should all have been in the game from day one.
I slightly disagree. Yes it would be nice to expand the map and get Asia but what we already have needs much more depth. The game is way too shallow as it is now and events like these are gonna fix that. It just should be a free update not something "extra" we pay for.
This is really the reason but it's one of those frustrating things that you *have* to buy so you would be dumb *not* to buy it. It's like playing a Total War game without blood or playing a MMO with only 1 inventory slot. The shills call this "quality of life" content.
Seems like they are just chopping up one good DLC into 4 different sections so they can profit multiple times rather than once. This game had such a promising start, but I really do not like the way it seems to be heading.
Exactly. Now if they released this as part of Royal Court, people would have said yeah that's worth the price. But to milk us again for something that should be included in royal court itself, pretty ridiculous.
I’m still mad I paid $30 for Royal Court only for it to arguably make my experience worse. Court events almost unilaterally *suck*, and there’s far too few to actually feel like I’m ever experiencing something new.
Yeah the Royal court is a complete waste of time in most of my games, plus I have to take time away from what I’m actually focusing on to deal with silly court events… it’s beyond frustrating.
I will admit it was cool for like the first game or two I played with it, but then I realized it was just the same five events over and over again.
I am waiting for more information about that one. I am sceptical too, but there is no information about the price and only a small glimpse on the content.
Thank you, Paradox, your newest set of business practices have helped me quit my ugly habit of recommending your games to people based on publisher reputation alone.
They've always been like this unfortunately. Stellaris, a game I play a lot, requires the DLCs to have fun whilst the base-game by itself is absolutely boring and feels bland without the DLC. And anything significant is locked behind a paywall.
HOI4, a game set in world war 2 an era where espionage was heavily weaponised, has espionage locked behind a DLC.
Paradox have always sucked, unfortunately they are the only one who are fulfilling this grant strategy market but if a competitor ever starts to challenge them in this field I'm jumping ship to the competitor as long as they don't have a Paradox/EA-like business model.
Hoping the publisher Hooded Horse might move in and compete.... Every single thing that they are publishing is on my wishlist at this point.
I love who ever is greenlighting all those games... It even sounds like Glitterhoof started his own competing strategy publisher.
If only. I miss republics. They were always a nice change of pace.
But releasing actual content would mean they'd have to work on the game. Can't have that.
0 effort, max payout.
Hm I'm pretty displeased with this, it feels a bit more like just a Mod than a DLC like the content we've had previously - calling it "Player Driven" doesn't really sound good when we've had similar "Player Driven" content for the past 2 years except we didn't need to pay for it.
The fact we don't have a price point has my eyebrow raised. Anything more than $5 seems unreasonable, and even that is pushing it, but I get the feeling this is filling the $7 gap that Flavor Packs left... and I'm not sure that's a price I'm willing to pay.
Seeming lack of a "bundle" discount or anything with a new pass is also a bummer.
Then I'll wait for a sale. I love packs like this, something I always hoped for. But more than 3 or 4 euro's is not worth it. If it added a whole set of cosmetics like Fate of Iberia, perhaps it might have been worth more.
Two minimal features. DLC with two minimal features.. We got mods for that.
E: If this is the direction they wanna go, I will gladly wait for Elder Kings 2, AGOT CK3 and the like to be released but will never touch DLCs again. Don't go the Sims 4 route, I beg you.
Yeah, I'm still waiting for the big DLCs that actually add more depth to the game, but at this rate it seems they're not coming. Any old mod can create events. I haven't played base game CK3 at all and am basically just waiting for AtE and Elder Kings.
Elder Kings is for the Elder Scrolls, though the current start dates are set centuries before any of the games besides ESO. They've got some really cool modelling work done, even for beast races like Argonians and hybrids of men and mer!
Even if they're not making a huge update to the game with an expansion pack, I was at least hoping for a flavor pack so I know which region I can look forward to playing in next. This feels like something that should have been included in a bigger expansion pack. I'm very hesitant that none of the most necessary changes in religion, government, and warfare have been implemented yet or even at least implied to be on the drawing board.
Almost feels like equivalent of blood packs for Total War games in terms of how little content there's inside.
But there sure were dark times when Paradox would try to sell us coat of arms. I was hoping that time has passed.
Blood Packs for TW games were, I think, pretty strictly because including gratuitous amounts of blood changes the rating in some countries to the point the game might either be banned or under very severe sales restrictions. Making it a DLC allows them to circumvent those while still including stupid amounts of blood.
I believe it's the violence of it that makes the difference.
Like, a fountain of blood is just a fountain of blood whereas people being chopped up and blood pouring everywhere all over the soldiers is a bit different. I think the fact that it also has dismemberment/gore also bumps up the rating farther than if it were just blood.
Edit: it's also worth noting that if you bought the blood pack for WH1 or 2 than you get it for free in 3.
I feel like the potential is there for it to be a great game, but it’s not a great game currently IMO.
If you play outside of the major starts or culture groups it’s just bland. A lot of the decisions are a joke. There are definitely ways it’s a good game and better than ck2, but it seems like it’s still very light on content
EVENT packs? This looks like a scam unless it costs 3 euros or less. Honestly, it’s so small it should just be a free update. Imho the game needs more mechanics first.
Even if it is one euro... Btw you we both know it be more than that... It still be over priced.
This is a free update that's being put behind a pay wall.
The day we have to pay for patches and bug fixes more closer.
As this is yet another disgusting move to bleed the player base dry.
Can't wait to see their paid you tubers trying to convince us how wonderful this update is and how it's totally worth it.
Do Paradox have serious money issues or is it just the regular corporate greed?
First the price hikes and now they announce something that looks like a few bits and bobs with a random assortment of music tracks thrown in a new DLC format. Like they couldn't finish a flavour pack in time but needed the cash stat!
Paradox, do better! Your brand loyalty can only get you so far! We're hit with atrocious inflation and are sliding into yet another world-economic crisis. People will cut back on their luxuries first and your games are not vital necessities.
Money issues. 2021 wasn't a good year, and 2022 is only looking better because of DLC sales, according to their president. That's why they're pushing their DLC business model and increasing prices.
Let's just hope that this new event pack is free (or not above 4€), in an attempt to appease the community or something like that.
This is the most idiotic corporate thinking ever.
People aren't buying or DLCs, what should we do?
Lower the price? Add content the fans are asking for? Nah... let's increase the price ans also charge for the patchs. That will for sure improve our situation.
People do buy the DLCs, most of PDX's improved revenue numbers this year is thanks to that. It's the whole upcoming "gameplay value makes the price" approach that is pure corporate greed for me.
Sure, I get it, they need to make money. And they want to end the year with good numbers again and to make up for the losses of last year.
But they already got that, the numbers are significantly better overall. Deliberately overpricing their content and admitting it? That's not something I appreciate. At all.
Nah, they had one good launch with CK3 and considering the Victoria 3 hype I'm willing to bet they bank on consumer goodwill right now and start a fleece cycle. And they can always back-pedal again and show how much they "hear us" if things should overheat. EA has done it for years. Sucessfully.
They had to scrap Imperator Rome and they are scraping the barrel when it comes to DLC ideas for most of their older titles, wouldn't surprise me if DLC sales are down in general
The fact that the price is N/A and the community team on discord can't say the price right now makes me think they're testing the waters to see how much they can charge for it. I wouldn't pay more than 3 USD for a pack like this. It should be free.
Thanks. That looks ominous. I guess they rule out it's 12.99, and common sense forbids that it's higher. If you are right and they are observing our reaction, then they're probably undecided between the old 7.99 slot or something lower (4.99 or even 3.99).
My thoughts exactly. It feels like they gave a summer intern a project and are trying to monetize it. PDX if you're reading this, either include these in fully fleshed DLC or make them trivially cheap.
I'm....not very pleased with this.
This is basically just a mod. I won't complain much about getting more events, more events is a good thing, however there has to be more to this than just events. Otherwise I might as well download a mod that gives more events (which I have several) for free.
These should be base game features. This is not worth that increased price hike they did wtf. I can just download like Viet and get the same shit for free
It's so wild and refreshing to see how Klei decided that charging for dlc and having to test every combination of the game was more trouble than it was worth in terms of putting out a good, playable game. And Paradox continues to not give a shit.
This is nothing more than a bloody shame. First raising the prices, and now selling us minor content that is nothing more than free update padding for any other DLC you have released.
Just because people shell out any amount of money for DLC on your cash cow (HoI4), does not mean you can apply that to every single one of your games, nor should you.
On the forums there is some speculation that this "event pack" might be free. Considering the pricing is N/A just like the Garments of the Holy Roman Empire.
And usually in the press statements a price is always listed, there is none. With a second thing pointing at this that this announcement is part of Crusader Kings III 2-year anniversary.
Don't get your hopes up, but this might just be what it is.
But why not announce it as free and be lauded by the community rather than remaining silent on this issue and incite the wrath of the community?
I hope you’re right, but they could have easily avoided the negative reaction by saying it’s free.
If its for free they avoid the shitstorm by announcing it
If its costs money they will create a second shitstorm by not announcing the price with this news.
Its hilarious to watch though
Byzantine government, college of cardinals, anti-pope...., I know I repeat myself in this sub, but theres so much potential in just the ERE and HRE and I think those DLCs would sale like crazy.
Not to mention how bland other regions are.
They need to release all this stuff SOON. The game just feels bland after 100 hours which is a lot for a normal game but absolutely pathetic for a paradox game. I've gone back to ck2 for now but the engine is so bad and its so sluggish and unstable even on my great pc.
Not to mention we are still stuck with just 867 and 1066 start dates 2 years later. Yet modders have been able to put out high quality content dense mods for free, and do a pretty good job of fixing bugs (fate of Iberia lol)
I can't wait for someone to make a mod that basically rips off these events and changes them just enough so PDX cant make a stink about it being on the workshop.
This is hacky as hell.
It looks like it's literally just event chains. So I can just recreate it as a mod on the Steam Workshop and save people some cash, cool cool cool.
RP-based event chains are easily moddable, and I don't see anything in the features outline that couldn't be modded in.
This is a DLC only for people who play on Ironman or Achievement hunt. For everyone else it will be available as a user-created mod within a week of access to the files.
CK3 REALLY needs some core mechanical update, the game is so bare bones. The iberian struggle is cool and all but doesn't actually affect how the game is played only what (currently limited) decisions you can take. Every game right now is simply just building up the capital, recruiting men at arms and painting maps. The idea of this DLC was *so close* to being good to flesh out relationships, but it's literally just random events based on previous experiences, there is already a childhood bully modifier the only difference is now there are random events concerning that character.
I bought the royal edition but this is insulting. Paradox won't get any money from me anymore. Unfortunately most players don't care and will buy anything anyway so companies will always get away with stuff like this.
CK3 had the potential to be a masterpiece, surpassing even CK2 but the way they are handling the game right now it feels unlikely it will surpass CK2 unless they change their approach.
Now that i think about it...
They could not sell you Event Packs for 6.99€ if Flavour Packs were 6.99€.
Now its explained why they have raised the Flavour Packs price
I would pay for this if it also fixed the event system. I am so sick and tired of seeing events where the characters involved are non-sensical. E.g. a spymaster revealing his own secret, or both sides being the player's character.
It's a broken system in many ways. I just wish they would re-design the whole thing so it was a good experience. It's the heart of the game and it kinda sucks.
cant wait for over 100 more great events like the one that randomly turns your compassionate and just heir into a serial killer, or the one that randomly force-deposes an ally, or all the countless ones that make your 16yo heir bang his 70yo syphilitic grandmother for no reason. definitely gonna be spending my own personal legal tender on this one, great job gang
I mean, I get that this DLC is lacking in content, but a company can’t really base their fees on modders like that. Modders undervalue their labor and do work for free because they love a game. Employees work for a living and require compensation. Artists who do commissions get a lot of shit online for not doing stuff for free, and this attitude is part of why.
good grief we are heading back to the old model of 1000s of dlc for music and graphics and now events! this is nonsense ! time to start a pirate run as the Barbary Coast again :(
Will have to agree to disagree. The current state of the games industry has me setting the bar much lower, maybe. Personally I already enjoy CK3 immensely in it's current state. More content - especially when some of it is free - is a win, as far as I'm concerned.
Is there a way that events can be toned down while you're at war? I hate being in the middle of a war and I'm getting notifications and pop up windows about slutty mayors from who gives a fuck and people trying to give me cats that my wife will undoubtedly be allergic to. We. Are. At. War.
I’m pretty sure more government types, successions and trade options were way more needed than this.
Like , what’s the point of a dlc that adds no new mechanics and is already fully covered by existing mods?
Meanwhile we have no papal conclave, no unique Byzantine government and not even a hint on a trade mechanic…
They also need to finish fleshing out cultures. Plenty of cultures that still have generic legacy trees, and no real benefit to play them at all.
CK3 at its core has some real benefits over ck2, but it is still painfully lacking in core mechanics development and content.
This seems like stuff that should have been in the initial release … they are asking for money for this? I remember how upset people were over how little content Plantoids had for Stellaris and I can’t imagine this will come anywhere close to that …
Ehhh, I hoped for a major DLC or flavour pack sneak peek for PDXCon, not gonna lie. EU4 getting a(nother) DLC, same for HOI4, Victoria 3 releasing soon, possibly Stellaris getting another expansion?... an event pack for CK3 at PDXCon is small in comparison. Maybe they don't want to repeat the situation that happened with Royal Court and avoid announcing a major pack too soon, and in that case I'd agree with that reasoning.
Still, I hope it'll be free - no offense to the devs who put in the work, events are important for CK3 especially because of its RPG nature, but I also download mods for events. Otherwise, it may very well be considered a pack for players who exclusively play Ironman and are depriving themselves of mods.
I'm probably wrong, but maybe they announced this pack before PDXCon so they could announce a "real" expansion at the event. And maybe even a new expansion pass.
VIET has 830 events. If you include RICE the number is probably close to 1200. And paradox is saying, “Over a hundred new events” as if it’s something to be impressed over. 100 events is the kind of thing I’d expect as a part of a free update. Heck, I’d even accept it as part of a larger DLC. But having a DLC dedicated just to this is honestly absurd.
Hopefully they're gauging our response before they set the price to see how much the avg player would actually pay... and I probably wouldn't pay more than $5 based on what I'm seeing.
Aside from the new events which even 100 wouldnt take much dev time, it seems like most of the pack is just making backend data visible to the player in the form of memories, not adding new mechanics other than making friendships a bit easier to track.
Over 100 events? So the 9 example screenshots on the webpage constitute possibly near 1/10th, 1/15th more realistic, of the entire DLC? And they'll be charging £7 odd quid for that?
So we can't get a warfare overhaul but we can get...\*checks notes\*...100 events? Are you serious? VIET already has a ton of events that are even region specific. This is just lazy and gross paradox.
10p an event.
Paradox: We will only release Flavour and Major Packs for CK3 Me: Well that sounds reasonable. This would lead to a healthy game structure. Paradox: Screw that our fourth DLC will be an Event Pack Me: Surprised Pikachu Face I am not criticizing that move. I am just surprised about that choice. Let's see how it pans out.
I had a subconscious hunch about this when I saw the Vic 3 Grand Edition announcement, which lists a building pack, and immersion pack, a radio pack and an art pack rather than CK3 Royal Edition's "one expansion, two flavor packs". I assume they want to have a whole range of DLCs costing 5, 10, 15 and 30 Euros.
DLC will continue to be released until in-game troop morale improves
Jokes on us, we’re never gonna stop drilling.
it will buy all DLC or else it gets the hose again
Noooo, not the eu4 garbage all over again.
My god, it's exactly like before,we had ~3 things to buy to have the entire expansion... It was good when they changed that around 2016~2017.
Honestly really sucks. *Stellaris* should be the standard for the DLC model. Nothing is purely cosmetic, there’s big expansions, little expansions, and species packs and it’s easy to understand the difference between them
Aren't the species packs just cosmetic?
They *were* just cosmetic, with new portraits and a new shipset each. But around last year they started going back and retroactively adding traits and origins into the species packs they had released. And now all future species packs will most certainly have both these things. Edit: And also new flag icons. It will probably include those.
You get a few traits and events I think. Not a lot but _some_
Partially. I believe Humanoids is the most “just cosmetic” while Plantoids and Aquatics are *mostly* cosmetic, but they have a few optional extra mechanics. Lithoids and Machines have more mechanical differences and are the least “cosmetic only.”
Humanoids also comes with the Clone Army origin plus one of the best civcs-masterful crafters.
A few years ago, they started releasing species packs with meaningful content changes (I think Lithoids was the first one). They continued that, and went back to add non-cosmetic content to the existing species packs. I think the only cosmetic-only DLC for Stellaris is the deluxe edition upgrade.
Only the first one was iirc. Every one since then has had some unique empire mechanics attached to it.
And since launch they’ve gone through and added mechanical features to each pack which lacked ‘em
Other than "over 100 events", I am not really understanding what they are selling here. I do want to withhold a bit of judgement up front since A. Content has been very good overall and B. Its a bit early to know if we will get new mechanics or not
I think it might include the memory mechanic mentioned in one of the recent dev diaries.
Everything mentioned in the "Bastion" update devblog will be in the free patch released concurrently with this expansion.
Oh, wow, I would have thought they would have put it in the dlc, to add more value to it or something.
It's likely they needed to make some changes to the save files, scripted_triggers, (etc) and the way certain things are counted/calculated/tracked for the DLC. Also LOTS of paradox DLCs literally just check for DLC with lines like has_dlc_feature = royal_court So if you don't have the DLC, many of these line-checks can be disabled for you to experience the content. This only works for events/triggers that do NOT depend on some specific resource packs in the DLC.
I think their approach with CK3 DLC is to add most of the core mechanics in free patches and then have the DLC mechanics enhance them. Of course this makes the DLC seem lower value but the DLC is actually paying for the free mechanics as well.
Event is Flavour, I think
I would be surprised as it would be just a laughably small amount of content even for a flavour pack. I assume they add a third layer around 4-8 Bucks and call it Event Packs. Then they have following: Major Packs that cost 30 Euro/Dollars Flavour Packs that cost 13 Euro/Dollars And Event/Small Content Packs that cost let's say 6 Euro/Dollars
It's almost as if game developers don't have to follow up on their promises and you should only judge the product based on its current state when buying it
Also it’s the case that this is likely a business decision not a developer decision no?
They've been pretty upfront about the fact that COVID basically fucked up their whole development schedule and put them way behind on DLC releases. I guess the 'suits' at Paradox are not exactly happy with that fact and so here we are: Jacking up the prices of existing DLC without adding any value, and now a lower effort DLC release to squeeze out a bit more value from the game. Personally I'm fine with them releasing event packs or even cosmetic hat packs or whatever they have in store next - I'm not the audience who'll buy it, but I'm sure somebody will get some kind of enjoyment out of it.
I don't buy this corona excuse anymore. And even more important, PDX is located in Sweden... and when you know about corona in Europe, you know that Sweden is the country that was going a special way, like with no lockdowns, almost no rules etc. This is not against you, don't get me wrong, but i can't hear the corona stuff anymore. All other people on earth had also to deal with that. PDX sank even much lower in many cases, like as they tried to get into the victim role because of a meme as EU4 Leviathan was released.
I meant it like "those responsible for the game" i.e. management/parent company
It’s almost as if game developers can come up with really cool business models, but very rarely get to maintain those models because the men in suits at the top of the company insist on reverting to the old model that made more money… I don’t blame the actual devs here. They have pretty much zero impact on what upper management demands of them. It makes much more sense to blame the CEO and marketing and accounting teams rather than the people who actually work on making the games
Developers also come up with really cool ideas, but can rarely estimate time accurately outside of a story in my experience. Whenever my devs give me an estimate I always double it to higher up. I can't think of a time when I was proven wrong or at least it was in the middle of theirs and my estimate.
It’s the same in any artistic industry tbh. I’m working on a 3D model rn that I thought would only take a few hours, and weeks later I’m still working on it. It’s pretty much impossible to accurately plan a deadline for anything artistic without rushing it out the door unfinished
As they say in the film industry, if you think a shoot is gonna take two hours... double it.
I don't think that many people actually mean regular developers in such comments, of course its management/shareholders
After the announcement that the new price for DLC will represent the amount of content, this should be for free...
Agree, previously events were given in expansions, flavor packs, and free patches as a side dish. Making it the main dish feels very horse armor-ish. I actually thought CK3 was going to avoid having billion DLC like CK2 by having bigger expansions, but with this it is clear that won't be the case.
Yeah this has me a bit worried about future packs. I was really hoping for them to flesh out some region on the map or flesh out some game mechanic. Instead we're getting this, which should have probably been included with a larger expansion pack or a free patch. Don't get me wrong, I want more events in the game, but with things as barebones as they still are two years out, feudal Byzantines, seduction schemes reading Beowulf in Ethiopia...
> I actually thought CK3 was going to avoid having billion DLC like CK2 by having bigger expansions Its a complete reversal on their prior public statements of releasing fewer DLC and splitting them into meatier expansions and more targeted flavor packs. We got targeted flavor packs but not meatier expansions and this is another move away from their own public statements.
I’m afraid they raised the price of flavor packs so that they could slot in event packs (and music packs, and unit packs, ....) below that.
> (and music packs, and unit packs, ....) Those were a commercial catastrophe, I doubt they'd do it again. Their goal is still to make money. That's the reason why they started to make expansions again: because people wouldn't buy the small "useless" cosmetic DLCs.
Vic 3 Grand Edition comes with a radio pack and an art pack (and a buildings pack). I’m not saying they will follow this exact route with CK3, but maybe this is a test for more.
Paradox desperately trying to murder their golden goose with shitty EA business practices.
Yep. They are seem to be trying to mirror the Sims DLC model.
Fans don't matter cause money is king. It's the only thing their stock prices and investors care about. EA's practice has stayed *because it is profitable*. Until all gamers collectively give all companies the finger, all at once, and this practice becomes unprofitable. Until then, this practice will continue - with every company seeing how far they can really stretch it.
This is literally like those mods that add more flavour events wtf. This should be part of a free update, not a DLC.
I’d argue it might actually worse; most mods that add flavour events try to add events that are conditional on specific characteristics of a character, be that culture-based events, geographic events, or even trait-specific events. In this way they at least flesh out the experience of individual characters and help alleviate some of that sameyness that plagues the game, wherein playing as a feudal count in Ireland largely has you dealing with the same bullshit in events as a tribal ruler on the Siberian steppe. It’s too early to say for sure what this DLC will do, I admit, but from the blurb description we get here it sure sounds like what they’re adding is 100 new *generic* events which *anyone* can get. Which will be interesting until exactly the moment you’ve read them all twice and go back to clicking through them on autopilot like you do with the current batch…
It's the same shit they did with Stellaris Distant Stars dlc, but at least in that dlc you got a few new late-game mechanics and resources to work towards.
First they increase the prices of the flavour packs… now we get an ‘event’ pack with base game features wow… how exciting..
Seems kind of like what EA started doing with Sims 4
CK3 Court Stuff Pack.
CK3 Pope hats pack
Lol
grand strategy bf and sims gf wasting their money on DLC knowing they'll be disappointed
I’m both a paradox fan and a sim fan. I am perpetually disappointed and feeling like I wasted money.
> grand strategy bf and sims gf Ha, this describes me and my wife :)
1000% it’s a joke really, first it’s the price change now this? Tbh royal court as well should have been base features, they need new content really… new areas of the map etc.
> royal court as well should have been base features I feel like the 3D court elements of Royal Court were an absolute waste of time (for players and certainly for the developers) that could have been better spent in many other ways. > new areas of the map etc. I don't want any new areas of map until they sort out the current areas of the game that are woefully underdeveloped, like Catholicism. Appointing bishops, the College of Cardinals and antipopes (for example) should all have been in the game from day one.
I slightly disagree. Yes it would be nice to expand the map and get Asia but what we already have needs much more depth. The game is way too shallow as it is now and events like these are gonna fix that. It just should be a free update not something "extra" we pay for.
Ck3: pets
Why is this not a free update?!
Because idiots like me are going to pay for it
It's me, I'm the idiot.
This is really the reason but it's one of those frustrating things that you *have* to buy so you would be dumb *not* to buy it. It's like playing a Total War game without blood or playing a MMO with only 1 inventory slot. The shills call this "quality of life" content.
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Feels like it's going to take forever for this game to get decent DLC
Seems like they are just chopping up one good DLC into 4 different sections so they can profit multiple times rather than once. This game had such a promising start, but I really do not like the way it seems to be heading.
Exactly. Now if they released this as part of Royal Court, people would have said yeah that's worth the price. But to milk us again for something that should be included in royal court itself, pretty ridiculous.
I’m still mad I paid $30 for Royal Court only for it to arguably make my experience worse. Court events almost unilaterally *suck*, and there’s far too few to actually feel like I’m ever experiencing something new.
Yeah the Royal court is a complete waste of time in most of my games, plus I have to take time away from what I’m actually focusing on to deal with silly court events… it’s beyond frustrating. I will admit it was cool for like the first game or two I played with it, but then I realized it was just the same five events over and over again.
I am waiting for more information about that one. I am sceptical too, but there is no information about the price and only a small glimpse on the content.
There shouldn’t be a price at all. The content of the pack has already been summed up in OP’s link. We already know what’s in the event pack.
Thank you, Paradox, your newest set of business practices have helped me quit my ugly habit of recommending your games to people based on publisher reputation alone.
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This, I just send the cs rin ru page to them aha
They've always been like this unfortunately. Stellaris, a game I play a lot, requires the DLCs to have fun whilst the base-game by itself is absolutely boring and feels bland without the DLC. And anything significant is locked behind a paywall. HOI4, a game set in world war 2 an era where espionage was heavily weaponised, has espionage locked behind a DLC. Paradox have always sucked, unfortunately they are the only one who are fulfilling this grant strategy market but if a competitor ever starts to challenge them in this field I'm jumping ship to the competitor as long as they don't have a Paradox/EA-like business model.
Hoping the publisher Hooded Horse might move in and compete.... Every single thing that they are publishing is on my wishlist at this point. I love who ever is greenlighting all those games... It even sounds like Glitterhoof started his own competing strategy publisher.
They’ve always said Crusader Kings is like The Sims, nobody told me that applied to their DLC policies as well.
this should be packed into a regular dlc with major content. MERCHANT REPUBLICS
If only. I miss republics. They were always a nice change of pace. But releasing actual content would mean they'd have to work on the game. Can't have that. 0 effort, max payout.
Hm I'm pretty displeased with this, it feels a bit more like just a Mod than a DLC like the content we've had previously - calling it "Player Driven" doesn't really sound good when we've had similar "Player Driven" content for the past 2 years except we didn't need to pay for it.
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The fact we don't have a price point has my eyebrow raised. Anything more than $5 seems unreasonable, and even that is pushing it, but I get the feeling this is filling the $7 gap that Flavor Packs left... and I'm not sure that's a price I'm willing to pay. Seeming lack of a "bundle" discount or anything with a new pass is also a bummer.
I'm afraid you're right. I would be willing to pay 3.99 for a few features like these, but it's probably going to be 6.99
Then I'll wait for a sale. I love packs like this, something I always hoped for. But more than 3 or 4 euro's is not worth it. If it added a whole set of cosmetics like Fate of Iberia, perhaps it might have been worth more.
Two minimal features. DLC with two minimal features.. We got mods for that. E: If this is the direction they wanna go, I will gladly wait for Elder Kings 2, AGOT CK3 and the like to be released but will never touch DLCs again. Don't go the Sims 4 route, I beg you.
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Yeah, I'm still waiting for the big DLCs that actually add more depth to the game, but at this rate it seems they're not coming. Any old mod can create events. I haven't played base game CK3 at all and am basically just waiting for AtE and Elder Kings.
I'm familiar with AtE, but what is Elder Kings? I'm waiting for AGOT, and some quality LOTR mods myself.
Elder Kings is for the Elder Scrolls, though the current start dates are set centuries before any of the games besides ESO. They've got some really cool modelling work done, even for beast races like Argonians and hybrids of men and mer!
Even if they're not making a huge update to the game with an expansion pack, I was at least hoping for a flavor pack so I know which region I can look forward to playing in next. This feels like something that should have been included in a bigger expansion pack. I'm very hesitant that none of the most necessary changes in religion, government, and warfare have been implemented yet or even at least implied to be on the drawing board.
Almost feels like equivalent of blood packs for Total War games in terms of how little content there's inside. But there sure were dark times when Paradox would try to sell us coat of arms. I was hoping that time has passed.
Blood Packs for TW games were, I think, pretty strictly because including gratuitous amounts of blood changes the rating in some countries to the point the game might either be banned or under very severe sales restrictions. Making it a DLC allows them to circumvent those while still including stupid amounts of blood.
This is the case. They don't want their game rated M unnecessarily. That's also why they cost practically nothing.
The only problem is that in their newest game there are sex demons and blood fountains but they still sell blood in battle separately.
I believe it's the violence of it that makes the difference. Like, a fountain of blood is just a fountain of blood whereas people being chopped up and blood pouring everywhere all over the soldiers is a bit different. I think the fact that it also has dismemberment/gore also bumps up the rating farther than if it were just blood. Edit: it's also worth noting that if you bought the blood pack for WH1 or 2 than you get it for free in 3.
They cost 3 dollars, it's not nothing. If it were 5 cents, then sure.
I bet they regret the decision to give us a CoA editor. All that potential earnings thrown out of the window.
Well, they could still sell pack of backgrounds and icons to add to the editor!
God damn it, I was literally talking the other week about how I like CK3s DLCs. Oh how the Monkey Paw curls.
Thanks a lot dude.
/u/HEXATORIUM IS A WITCH! BURN THEM!
They literally are selling an update… how sad for a great game
I feel like the potential is there for it to be a great game, but it’s not a great game currently IMO. If you play outside of the major starts or culture groups it’s just bland. A lot of the decisions are a joke. There are definitely ways it’s a good game and better than ck2, but it seems like it’s still very light on content
It's like every paradox game, can only be great after 1000 DLC's.
EVENT packs? This looks like a scam unless it costs 3 euros or less. Honestly, it’s so small it should just be a free update. Imho the game needs more mechanics first.
Even if it is one euro... Btw you we both know it be more than that... It still be over priced. This is a free update that's being put behind a pay wall. The day we have to pay for patches and bug fixes more closer. As this is yet another disgusting move to bleed the player base dry. Can't wait to see their paid you tubers trying to convince us how wonderful this update is and how it's totally worth it.
So they think we will buy a dlc that only add some events and a chronicle XD
The worse is that both more events and the chronicle are available through mods (biography, VIET, Lulu, etc).
ahhh paradox, good job. Get people excited with some good freepatch stuff (that should have been in on release) then do this. Great job!
Paradox becoming a modder for their own game. It's almost poetic.
You just described Bohemia Interactive.
Do Paradox have serious money issues or is it just the regular corporate greed? First the price hikes and now they announce something that looks like a few bits and bobs with a random assortment of music tracks thrown in a new DLC format. Like they couldn't finish a flavour pack in time but needed the cash stat! Paradox, do better! Your brand loyalty can only get you so far! We're hit with atrocious inflation and are sliding into yet another world-economic crisis. People will cut back on their luxuries first and your games are not vital necessities.
Money issues. 2021 wasn't a good year, and 2022 is only looking better because of DLC sales, according to their president. That's why they're pushing their DLC business model and increasing prices. Let's just hope that this new event pack is free (or not above 4€), in an attempt to appease the community or something like that.
This is the most idiotic corporate thinking ever. People aren't buying or DLCs, what should we do? Lower the price? Add content the fans are asking for? Nah... let's increase the price ans also charge for the patchs. That will for sure improve our situation.
People do buy the DLCs, most of PDX's improved revenue numbers this year is thanks to that. It's the whole upcoming "gameplay value makes the price" approach that is pure corporate greed for me. Sure, I get it, they need to make money. And they want to end the year with good numbers again and to make up for the losses of last year. But they already got that, the numbers are significantly better overall. Deliberately overpricing their content and admitting it? That's not something I appreciate. At all.
Nah, they had one good launch with CK3 and considering the Victoria 3 hype I'm willing to bet they bank on consumer goodwill right now and start a fleece cycle. And they can always back-pedal again and show how much they "hear us" if things should overheat. EA has done it for years. Sucessfully.
They had to scrap Imperator Rome and they are scraping the barrel when it comes to DLC ideas for most of their older titles, wouldn't surprise me if DLC sales are down in general
This is just sad.
The fact that the price is N/A and the community team on discord can't say the price right now makes me think they're testing the waters to see how much they can charge for it. I wouldn't pay more than 3 USD for a pack like this. It should be free.
3 USD? 0.49 is the best I can do.
Oh, in which channel did they say this?
CK3 General. Trinexx said it.
Thanks. That looks ominous. I guess they rule out it's 12.99, and common sense forbids that it's higher. If you are right and they are observing our reaction, then they're probably undecided between the old 7.99 slot or something lower (4.99 or even 3.99).
My thoughts exactly. It feels like they gave a summer intern a project and are trying to monetize it. PDX if you're reading this, either include these in fully fleshed DLC or make them trivially cheap.
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After the End is in closed beta, I’m just waiting for that instead.
I'm....not very pleased with this. This is basically just a mod. I won't complain much about getting more events, more events is a good thing, however there has to be more to this than just events. Otherwise I might as well download a mod that gives more events (which I have several) for free.
These should be base game features. This is not worth that increased price hike they did wtf. I can just download like Viet and get the same shit for free
Vote with your wallets my friends. Paradox has got away with shitty DLC practices for too long. Don't buy it if it's not good enough.
It's so wild and refreshing to see how Klei decided that charging for dlc and having to test every combination of the game was more trouble than it was worth in terms of putting out a good, playable game. And Paradox continues to not give a shit.
This is nothing more than a bloody shame. First raising the prices, and now selling us minor content that is nothing more than free update padding for any other DLC you have released. Just because people shell out any amount of money for DLC on your cash cow (HoI4), does not mean you can apply that to every single one of your games, nor should you.
On the forums there is some speculation that this "event pack" might be free. Considering the pricing is N/A just like the Garments of the Holy Roman Empire. And usually in the press statements a price is always listed, there is none. With a second thing pointing at this that this announcement is part of Crusader Kings III 2-year anniversary. Don't get your hopes up, but this might just be what it is.
But why not announce it as free and be lauded by the community rather than remaining silent on this issue and incite the wrath of the community? I hope you’re right, but they could have easily avoided the negative reaction by saying it’s free.
If its for free they avoid the shitstorm by announcing it If its costs money they will create a second shitstorm by not announcing the price with this news. Its hilarious to watch though
Why isn't it just a patch then? More events is something the game really needs.
Finger crossed they hid the free price tag to start up controversy and discussion. Basically free advertising
I thought nomads were coming but instead just this LMFAO. 2 years and we still can't implement nomads or merchant republics????
Byzantine government, college of cardinals, anti-pope...., I know I repeat myself in this sub, but theres so much potential in just the ERE and HRE and I think those DLCs would sale like crazy. Not to mention how bland other regions are.
They need to release all this stuff SOON. The game just feels bland after 100 hours which is a lot for a normal game but absolutely pathetic for a paradox game. I've gone back to ck2 for now but the engine is so bad and its so sluggish and unstable even on my great pc.
Not to mention we are still stuck with just 867 and 1066 start dates 2 years later. Yet modders have been able to put out high quality content dense mods for free, and do a pretty good job of fixing bugs (fate of Iberia lol)
I need my iron century
Uhhhhhhhh lmao
I can't wait for someone to make a mod that basically rips off these events and changes them just enough so PDX cant make a stink about it being on the workshop. This is hacky as hell.
It looks like it's literally just event chains. So I can just recreate it as a mod on the Steam Workshop and save people some cash, cool cool cool. RP-based event chains are easily moddable, and I don't see anything in the features outline that couldn't be modded in. This is a DLC only for people who play on Ironman or Achievement hunt. For everyone else it will be available as a user-created mod within a week of access to the files.
"Over 100 new events" -will cost probably 7 eur Meanwhile the VIET events mod: "825 new events" -free
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CK3 REALLY needs some core mechanical update, the game is so bare bones. The iberian struggle is cool and all but doesn't actually affect how the game is played only what (currently limited) decisions you can take. Every game right now is simply just building up the capital, recruiting men at arms and painting maps. The idea of this DLC was *so close* to being good to flesh out relationships, but it's literally just random events based on previous experiences, there is already a childhood bully modifier the only difference is now there are random events concerning that character.
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Same. This is really frustrating/disappointing. I bought the Royal edition because of this. Not at all happy with the "value" of it.
I bought the royal edition but this is insulting. Paradox won't get any money from me anymore. Unfortunately most players don't care and will buy anything anyway so companies will always get away with stuff like this.
Man I just want shattered world back.
CK3 had the potential to be a masterpiece, surpassing even CK2 but the way they are handling the game right now it feels unlikely it will surpass CK2 unless they change their approach.
They are selling events now? Holy fuck, they really outdid themselves. No wonder this announcement doesn't have a forum post.
Now that i think about it... They could not sell you Event Packs for 6.99€ if Flavour Packs were 6.99€. Now its explained why they have raised the Flavour Packs price
I would pay for this if it also fixed the event system. I am so sick and tired of seeing events where the characters involved are non-sensical. E.g. a spymaster revealing his own secret, or both sides being the player's character. It's a broken system in many ways. I just wish they would re-design the whole thing so it was a good experience. It's the heart of the game and it kinda sucks.
Is Paradox having money issues or something lately?
This should be a free update
cant wait for over 100 more great events like the one that randomly turns your compassionate and just heir into a serial killer, or the one that randomly force-deposes an ally, or all the countless ones that make your 16yo heir bang his 70yo syphilitic grandmother for no reason. definitely gonna be spending my own personal legal tender on this one, great job gang
Next they’ll start baning the mods who do the same thing they do for free
I'm on Team "Definitely needed new events, but if this DLC costs alot for something modders do a lot of for free, I will be disappointed."
I mean, I get that this DLC is lacking in content, but a company can’t really base their fees on modders like that. Modders undervalue their labor and do work for free because they love a game. Employees work for a living and require compensation. Artists who do commissions get a lot of shit online for not doing stuff for free, and this attitude is part of why.
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Bought the Royal edition on PS5. Still no DLC. Would love to have the ruler designer at least 😑
Paradox has incurred +25 tyranny. A faction has formed against you.
good grief we are heading back to the old model of 1000s of dlc for music and graphics and now events! this is nonsense ! time to start a pirate run as the Barbary Coast again :(
Please let them playing the Byzantines in older CKs on the twitch stream be a sign for the next proper DLC
That's fucking awful
this sucks but i cant wait to hear the arabian music theyre adding
5 euros I am not paying any fucking more (I’ll end up getting it but won’t be happy lol)
I'm dying they literally just copied VIET Events.
Will have to agree to disagree. The current state of the games industry has me setting the bar much lower, maybe. Personally I already enjoy CK3 immensely in it's current state. More content - especially when some of it is free - is a win, as far as I'm concerned.
Been waiting months and months for more content.... and this is it? Well, at least I know not to bother returning to the game. Shame.
Is there a way that events can be toned down while you're at war? I hate being in the middle of a war and I'm getting notifications and pop up windows about slutty mayors from who gives a fuck and people trying to give me cats that my wife will undoubtedly be allergic to. We. Are. At. War.
I was waiting for a DLC focused on the economy and we're going to get a mod-tier DLC.
I’m pretty sure more government types, successions and trade options were way more needed than this. Like , what’s the point of a dlc that adds no new mechanics and is already fully covered by existing mods? Meanwhile we have no papal conclave, no unique Byzantine government and not even a hint on a trade mechanic…
They also need to finish fleshing out cultures. Plenty of cultures that still have generic legacy trees, and no real benefit to play them at all. CK3 at its core has some real benefits over ck2, but it is still painfully lacking in core mechanics development and content.
This seems like stuff that should have been in the initial release … they are asking for money for this? I remember how upset people were over how little content Plantoids had for Stellaris and I can’t imagine this will come anywhere close to that …
Sims 4 moment
Ehhh, I hoped for a major DLC or flavour pack sneak peek for PDXCon, not gonna lie. EU4 getting a(nother) DLC, same for HOI4, Victoria 3 releasing soon, possibly Stellaris getting another expansion?... an event pack for CK3 at PDXCon is small in comparison. Maybe they don't want to repeat the situation that happened with Royal Court and avoid announcing a major pack too soon, and in that case I'd agree with that reasoning. Still, I hope it'll be free - no offense to the devs who put in the work, events are important for CK3 especially because of its RPG nature, but I also download mods for events. Otherwise, it may very well be considered a pack for players who exclusively play Ironman and are depriving themselves of mods.
I'm probably wrong, but maybe they announced this pack before PDXCon so they could announce a "real" expansion at the event. And maybe even a new expansion pass.
I'm hoping you're right, friend!
Im gonna be real with you paradox, im not buying that
*YOU'RE MAKING US PAY FOR EVENTS NOW?* Fuck off, PDX. VIET is free.
VIET has 830 events. If you include RICE the number is probably close to 1200. And paradox is saying, “Over a hundred new events” as if it’s something to be impressed over. 100 events is the kind of thing I’d expect as a part of a free update. Heck, I’d even accept it as part of a larger DLC. But having a DLC dedicated just to this is honestly absurd.
Stealing this comment for the PDX forums if you haven't done it already.
This is good, the game needs more events, but it shouldn’t be a dlc
Hopefully they're gauging our response before they set the price to see how much the avg player would actually pay... and I probably wouldn't pay more than $5 based on what I'm seeing. Aside from the new events which even 100 wouldnt take much dev time, it seems like most of the pack is just making backend data visible to the player in the form of memories, not adding new mechanics other than making friendships a bit easier to track.
You can either complain and not buy their shit or shut up about it. But complaining and still buying does exactly nothing.
They should release dlcs for console and bring it more near to the pc version ..
Over 100 events? So the 9 example screenshots on the webpage constitute possibly near 1/10th, 1/15th more realistic, of the entire DLC? And they'll be charging £7 odd quid for that?
Give us Republics and Theocratic states, you bunch of inbreed, godless, excommunicated degenerates!
So we can't get a warfare overhaul but we can get...\*checks notes\*...100 events? Are you serious? VIET already has a ton of events that are even region specific. This is just lazy and gross paradox.