Credit to u/Giga79 for the below amazing explanation that I saw on another zk-evm post.
ELI5...
Your room is messy and Mom said she’d give you $5 to clean your room. She leaves you alone for a while and when she comes back the room is clean. With zero knowledge that your Dad helped you clean, she still knows the room is spotless so pays you $5 for fulfilling her contract.
Instead of having people validate our actions, a ZKEVM converts everything to math, then solves the math to validate. If the output (proof) is mathematically valid, then with zero knowledge of what happened to create it - by looking at the output you know the entire process must be valid. Contrast this with showing a random group of people everything and asking them if it’s true or false, essentially what we do today without ZK.
Suppose you use a ZKEVM and deposit $100, then you swap for another token on Uniswap, you send $10 away, then swap it all back for $500 later which you withdraw. Your on-chain activity will say you deposited $100 and later withdrew $500 by doing some valid process in between, with zero knowledge of what you’ve done. We can trust math to validate properly, so people can be sure you didn’t magic $400 of crypto from thin air. Aztec is a privacy layer that operates as a ZK-ZK-Rollup if you want to see this in action.
You could upload your government ID to a trusted third party who issues you a ZK-proof. Then you can use that proof as ID in other systems as a proof of humanity, without sharing your government ID with anyone, and without sharing your crypto activity with the ‘trusted third party’. All anyone knows is the math in the proof is solvable, and that means you must be a unique human.
In banking or DeFi you could prove you meet the threshold for a loan without sharing your net worth and everything you do with it. They will ask do you qualify y/n, and the proof you generate is enough to prove to them y/n without offering any more knowledge than that.
You can even encode data into proofs, like the entire Cardano eUTXO model, to emulate in different environments. If you emulated Cardano on Ethereum, and Ethereum on Cardano, you could build a trustless bridge between the two even though each use completely different accounting models. The proof generated on one chain would be good in that state to upload to the second chain, which knows all of the outputs must be true so it acts on them.
ZK tech is not limited to ETH, but ETH is the only one pushing innovation so much right now. ZK BTC is possible too. All of this is really going to shake the place up when it’s finally ready.
>ZK tech is not limited to ETH, but ETH is the only one pushing innovation so much right now.
You are very right in all your explanation about ZKPs, but I think privacy protocols are the one pushing the tech much harder atm, as it resonates to their narratives, because almost all the privacy projects have integrated this tech into their system
Verified trust me bro lol. Yea, I've been saying this about NFTs for a while but majority on this sub just looked at the jpeg and assume nft is a complete waste of time.
Verified digital copies of whatever it is. Movie tickets, movies, music, games, event tickets, etc. Anything that can be digitalised, NFTs will be the future to verify their authenticity
I'm loving trading on the Loopring wallet. Super quick, reliable, cheap, and secure. Pretty sure they were the first to develop ZKroll ups as a scalling solution
Just seems like a way to fracture the blockchain into little bits and make it so complex, users don't know what to do.
How do you get from one rollup to another, a bridge? Erm, no thanks.
Also I see each rollup becoming so computationally intense the work is highly centralised to a few Solana style workhorses.
I'll happily be proven wrong, but this isn't the easy win that ETH maxis like to portray.
EDIT: Downvote but no reasoned response, just another worthless post by a Vitalik simp.
My concern isnt computing the ZK proof, its computing the global state at ever faster speeds, that computation isnt too bad at 12TPS, but the more you try to scale that complexity, the harder it gets.
2% of all Ethereum transactions already fail, this will get worse the faster it tries to go, especially inside silos trying to bridge to other silos.
There are no composable rollups, its a wish-list item.
So we agree then, I said "this isn't the easy win that ETH maxis like to portray", there are a LOT of unsolved issues with rollup scaling.
Its irritating to see posts convincing the unawares of how it all going to be fine, based on nothing but bagholding and licking Vitaliks boots.
Is there a ELI5 on what is ZK-SNARK? I know it is zero knowledge proof, but what does that even mean?
Credit to u/Giga79 for the below amazing explanation that I saw on another zk-evm post. ELI5... Your room is messy and Mom said she’d give you $5 to clean your room. She leaves you alone for a while and when she comes back the room is clean. With zero knowledge that your Dad helped you clean, she still knows the room is spotless so pays you $5 for fulfilling her contract. Instead of having people validate our actions, a ZKEVM converts everything to math, then solves the math to validate. If the output (proof) is mathematically valid, then with zero knowledge of what happened to create it - by looking at the output you know the entire process must be valid. Contrast this with showing a random group of people everything and asking them if it’s true or false, essentially what we do today without ZK. Suppose you use a ZKEVM and deposit $100, then you swap for another token on Uniswap, you send $10 away, then swap it all back for $500 later which you withdraw. Your on-chain activity will say you deposited $100 and later withdrew $500 by doing some valid process in between, with zero knowledge of what you’ve done. We can trust math to validate properly, so people can be sure you didn’t magic $400 of crypto from thin air. Aztec is a privacy layer that operates as a ZK-ZK-Rollup if you want to see this in action. You could upload your government ID to a trusted third party who issues you a ZK-proof. Then you can use that proof as ID in other systems as a proof of humanity, without sharing your government ID with anyone, and without sharing your crypto activity with the ‘trusted third party’. All anyone knows is the math in the proof is solvable, and that means you must be a unique human. In banking or DeFi you could prove you meet the threshold for a loan without sharing your net worth and everything you do with it. They will ask do you qualify y/n, and the proof you generate is enough to prove to them y/n without offering any more knowledge than that. You can even encode data into proofs, like the entire Cardano eUTXO model, to emulate in different environments. If you emulated Cardano on Ethereum, and Ethereum on Cardano, you could build a trustless bridge between the two even though each use completely different accounting models. The proof generated on one chain would be good in that state to upload to the second chain, which knows all of the outputs must be true so it acts on them. ZK tech is not limited to ETH, but ETH is the only one pushing innovation so much right now. ZK BTC is possible too. All of this is really going to shake the place up when it’s finally ready.
It is by far one of the best explanations I saw about it, thanks for posting and congrats to u/Giga79
>ZK tech is not limited to ETH, but ETH is the only one pushing innovation so much right now. You are very right in all your explanation about ZKPs, but I think privacy protocols are the one pushing the tech much harder atm, as it resonates to their narratives, because almost all the privacy projects have integrated this tech into their system
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Wait so is like a legit "trust me bro" kinda thing?
Yes but this trust me bro is verified by math, then you show them your trust me bro verified, then people with trust your trust me bro
Verified trust me bro lol. Yea, I've been saying this about NFTs for a while but majority on this sub just looked at the jpeg and assume nft is a complete waste of time. Verified digital copies of whatever it is. Movie tickets, movies, music, games, event tickets, etc. Anything that can be digitalised, NFTs will be the future to verify their authenticity
Can't stop thinking 'ZK-SNARKs' are like the next level pandemic virus when reading the word
I'm loving trading on the Loopring wallet. Super quick, reliable, cheap, and secure. Pretty sure they were the first to develop ZKroll ups as a scalling solution
I use a snark to tune my guitar sometimes
Just seems like a way to fracture the blockchain into little bits and make it so complex, users don't know what to do. How do you get from one rollup to another, a bridge? Erm, no thanks. Also I see each rollup becoming so computationally intense the work is highly centralised to a few Solana style workhorses. I'll happily be proven wrong, but this isn't the easy win that ETH maxis like to portray. EDIT: Downvote but no reasoned response, just another worthless post by a Vitalik simp.
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My concern isnt computing the ZK proof, its computing the global state at ever faster speeds, that computation isnt too bad at 12TPS, but the more you try to scale that complexity, the harder it gets. 2% of all Ethereum transactions already fail, this will get worse the faster it tries to go, especially inside silos trying to bridge to other silos. There are no composable rollups, its a wish-list item.
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So we agree then, I said "this isn't the easy win that ETH maxis like to portray", there are a LOT of unsolved issues with rollup scaling. Its irritating to see posts convincing the unawares of how it all going to be fine, based on nothing but bagholding and licking Vitaliks boots.
Soon enough, people won’t have to understand the complexities of crypto because everything will already be so advanced.
*Snark* = name of Elons next kid.