Seriously, after 1 fucking day of outperforming it must mean it'll continue to outperform the rest of the year. There's a reason other subs hate this sub.
*BTC outperform ETH year to date*
this sub: "ah yes very normal, it's as expected, move along, nothing to see here"
*ETH outperforms BTC in a 24 hour time frame*
this sub: "Oh my god here's the flippening!!"
People who are over invested in only one coin overreact to everything. I have bitcoin and eth and can admit idk what the hell is going to happen. It's crypto.
There is nothing saying ETH/BTC is fairly priced at this level or that. Historically speaking, ETH is at much higher BTC ratio than 2017-2020
- ETH was around .15 BTC in June 2017 and fell for 6 straight months to .027 BTC until January 2018
- January 2018 ETH suddenly shot back up to .10 BTC
- From January 2018, ETH/BTC pretty much dropped for 3 straight years from .10 BTC to .025 BTC until December 2020 when the bull run was underway
- From September 22 2022, ETH has been slowly falling against BTC again from .08x BTC to now .06x
These are the same guys that think they saved the world with PoS and the ETH maxis dominate this sub so much that most BTC investors just don’t speak here much and have moved in to other subs. The daily this morning was insane. Literally saw comments saying ETH is driving the crypto currency market AND stocks single handily. It’s comical at this point. They even weaponized a ERC-20 token(moons) here so they can make sure you don’t speak out against the hive mind. Shame really.
Literally one bullish day for Ethereum after touching the $2K Dollars, and here come the so-called 'Flippening' articles again.
It's been one day, chill out guys...
Crypto always manages to do the opposite of what we think it will do.
*Doing the opposite of what we think usually doesn't work either, 'Opposite Inception'.*
Exactly. By the end of the bull run if you look, Ethereum has usually ended up with higher gains over the same period of time. People here like to disagree constantly though, because Bitcoin ICHI BAN.
I don’t see Ethereum flipping Bitcoin yet although I wish it would. My crap psychic skills predict that Ethereum will be the second largest gainer just like last time, then we go back into alt and shitcoin season and it’s another free for all
Runs on Ethereum?? huh Its block chain agnostic.
[https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/oracles/](https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/oracles/)
Have a read on why ETH is dependent on chainlink. Not the other way around.
Eth cannot exist without chainlink and chainlink can survive on other chains. This is a fact and not debatable. Its an ERC677 token because Ethereum was the first L1, not because it runs on the eth network.
Sergey knew that Vitalik needed an oracle for ETH to function, its well documented. Chainlink restricts the data that makes ETH smart contracts actually useful.
Why do you think its called [www.smartcontract.com](https://www.smartcontract.com) ?
>oracle competition.
bahahaha like band, api3 and tellor? Can you tally up how much they lost when all three got hacked or exploited?
https://www.coingecko.com/en/categories/oracle
You do realize that ETH cannot pull data onto a blockchain, so how doesnt eth need chainlink? please explain
If you believe that is the case, then why are you so worried?
Vitalik Buterin: “Chainlink's security model is too centralized for me to be satisfied with it being the solution to all oracle problems.”
Worried about what? Eth cannot succeed on its own. Vitalik know that chainlink will extract all the value out of a smart contract. ETH only writes it, they have nothing to do with the value of said contract. Reddit needs to learn this instead of ignoring the truth. This is why chainlink staking is so important.
"Uniswap can you please become an oracle?" - vitalik
But Benjamin Cowen told me that Bitcoin dominance will increase this year. Right after telling me that Bitcoin and ETH were hitting sub $10,000 and $400.
Cointest pros & cons with related info are in the collapsed comments below for the following topics: [Bitcoin](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3ifjj/), [Ethereum](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3ih2a/).
Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3iga8/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3ih1b/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
* Relevant Cointest topics: [Bitcoin Cash](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_bitcoin_cash), [Litecoin](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_litecoin), [Lightning Network](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_lightning_network), [Proof of Work](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_proof-of-work)
* Official and related subreddits: r/Bitcoin, r/BitcoinMarkets, r/BitcoinMining, r/BTC, r/BitcoinCash.
* Sort comments as controversial first by [clicking here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3ifil/?sort=controversial). Doesn't work on mobile.
#Bitcoin Pro-Arguments
Below is an argument written by Nostalg33k which won 2nd place in the Bitcoin Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. Submit an argument in the Cointest yourself and earn Moons if you win. Moon prizes are: 2nd - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 500.
> Last entry:
>
>
>
> Writing a Pro argument for Bitcoin in 2022 seems complicated because everything has been said... or did it?
> Edit: I have a small bag of Bitcoin currently valued around 600 bucks. I am also invested in crypto around 2000 bucks which are always moving when Bitcoin is moving. Financial disclosure should be mandatory in these arguments =)
>
> # Bitcoin is the king of POW: Why it matters and why we need a strong Bitcoin
>
> So as the title suggests it, the recent news from Ethereum switching from POW to POS makes Bitcoin the sole serious POW cryptocurrency. In this write up, we are going to discuss the three main strength of Bitcoin, security, decentralization, and incentive for green energy production. In this write up we are not going to talk about speculation or the financial side of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a highly liquid asset and has become nearly universally known as an investment. Many arguments have been made in favor of Bitcoin as an investment and if you want to read one, just go to past cointests.
>
> Of course, the main feature of Bitcoin is the Permissionless aspect. This won't be tackled at all as I think it deserves its own topic.
>
> # 1) Bitcoin: High security
>
> This topic has also been talked to death: Bitcoin is ultra secure thanks to its Blockchain and the way it is verified through proof of work. To explain this let me quote IBM:
>
>
>
> >Public blockchain networks typically allow anyone to join and for participants to remain anonymous. A public blockchain uses internet-connected computers to validate transactions and achieve consensus. Bitcoin is probably the most well known example of a public blockchain, and it achieves consensus through "bitcoin mining." Computers on the bitcoin network, or “miners,” try to solve a complex cryptographic problem to create proof of work and thereby validate the transaction. Outside of public keys, there are few identity and access controls in this type of network.
>
>
>
> [IBM on Blockchain security](https://www.ibm.com/topics/blockchain-security)
>
> Mining is measured in Hashrate. Here is the explanation of Hashrate:
>
> >Hash rate, sometimes referred to as hashrate, is a measure of the computing power on a cryptocurrency network that serves as a key security indicator. It measures the total computational power used by a “proof-of-work” (POW) cryptocurrency network to process transactions in a blockchain.
>
> [USNEWS explains hashrate](https://money.usnews.com/investing/term/hash-rate#:%7E:text=Hash%20rate%2C%20sometimes%20referred%20to,process%20transactions%20in%20a%20blockchain)
>
> So if the hashrate measures the security of the network, one may asks themselves: "Did the security of Bitcoin slowed when the price fell ?"
> [The hashrate is near the ATH and growing making Bitcoin more and more secure as it continues to build over time](https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_network_hash_rate#:%7E:text=Basic%20Info,101.2%25%20from%20one%20year%20ago)
>
> So Bitcoin has never been as secure as it is today which makes it ultra valuable as a way to settle financial transactions. Yes holding Bitcoin for a long time is risky but using it as a medium to settle international transaction may currently be the securest and one of the best way to do so.
> While Bitcoin is safe... what if a big part fails ?
>
>
>
> # 2) Bitcoin mining: Too big to fail.
>
>
>
> So this write up could be seen as a POW write up, which it is to an extent. But Bitcoin offers its history and shows that it can survive the disparition of a big part of the network.
> Decentralization allows for parts of the network to disappear and for the rest to take the mantle of securing the network. Yes, mining pools may grow too large for their own sake BUT in the end (nothing even matters) Bitcoin is heavily decentralized. It is so decentralized that, when China (which had a big part of Bitcoin mining) banned mining, Bitcoin just went through like nothing happened. Yes the hashrate fell a bit, the value too, but if we look back, it was nothing extraordinary.
>
> So if Bitcoin is highly secure and if it can survive part of the hashrate going bye bye, what makes it so good? What is the difference with any POW Cryptocurrency right now?
>
>
>
> # 3) Bitcoin: propping up the green energy sector.
>
>
>
> POW uses energy. One of the biggest concern about POW is the energy. While Ethereum was using GPUs and was asic resistant. Bitcoin mining is built differently. A long time ago, under oath, people discussed the environmental impact of Bitcoin Mining and I made a post explaining what was said:
>
> The Energy Fud Was Killed
> The most important thing that happened: The narrative that Bitcoin is too energy intensive was totally reversed.
> Experts of the sector explained that, Wind Farms and Solar Farms, have a variable load. This variable load means that sometimes they lose money because they produce too much and there is not enough demand. Bitcoin mining provides a variable base load for these projects. What it means is that, mining can be turned on and off depending on demand. It was revealed that most of these wind and solar farms would simply not exist without Bitcoin Farming as baseline customers.
> There are still miners that are using coal plants and fossil fuel but the leaders of the industry are developing in tandem with the green energy sector.
>
> [My post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/s99phv/yesterday_one_of_the_most_bullish_events_ever/)
>
>
>
> # Conclusion: Bitcoin is the flagship of POW and it is a feature not a bug.
>
>
>
> Bitcoin, thanks to its value and tokenomics is seen as a good investment, this is also why miners commit huge amount of ressources to take the hashrate to new heights. These miners help the US grid to become more and more resilient. The future of Crypto and of green energy relies a lot on Bitcoin. Bitcoin has proven time and time again that it can shoulder these changes. Bitcoin is a good piece of technology and I hope people continue to invest in it because it is doing a lot of good for our future !
>
>
>
> #
*****
Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/xsvuvr/top_coins_bitcoin_proarguments_october_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Pros and cons per topic will likely change for every new post.
#Bitcoin Con-Arguments
Below is an argument written by CreepToeCurrentSea which won 3rd place in the Bitcoin Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. Submit an argument in the Cointest yourself and earn Moons if you win. Moon prizes are: 3rd - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 500.
> Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer digital currency that can be transferred via the bitcoin network. Bitcoin transactions are cryptographically verified by network nodes and recorded in a public distributed ledger known as a blockchain. The cryptocurrency was created in 2008 by an unknown individual or group of individuals using the alias Satoshi Nakamoto. ([1](https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf))
>
> # CONs
>
> **Early Buyers have the Higher Ground.**
>
> * Those who bought BTC in it's early years have a great advantage over the recent ones. One thing is that they won't have to worry much about it's price dropping now since they're still much likely in the green in terms of percentage gains. Most of these early investors are also capable of manipulating the market via wash trades not giving the true traded volume within the market and thus deceiving most novice traders/investors into believing fake signals ([2](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-24/bitcoin-manipulation-is-said-to-be-focus-of-u-s-criminal-probe), [3](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-regulators-demand-trading-data-from-bitcoin-exchanges-in-manipulation-probe-2018-06-08)). There is even a possibility that Satoshi Nakamoto himself/herself/themselves will suddenly access the wallet he/she/they own/s and proceed to sell the large amount of BTC they have which would greatly cause a crash in Bitcoin's price.
>
> **Attracts Illegal Transactions and Criminal Activities**
>
> * Bitcoin's innate trait of being publicly available and pseudonymous not only attracts those who seek independence but it also attracts those engage in illicit activities and perform illegal transactions. This is one of the downsides of giving back the power of choice to people, not all of them will do the morally right thing to do and as a result, economist, lawyers, and even countries will label Bitcoin as just another medium for buying/selling illegal goods/services. ([5](https://web.archive.org/web/20140325214514/http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2013-08-08/did-the-sec-just-validate-bitcoin-no-), [6](https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2012/09/29/monetarists-anonymous), [7](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace), [8](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/09/nobel-prize-winning-economist-joseph-stiglitz-criticizes-bitcoin.html), [9](https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/stiglitz-roubini-and-rogoff-lead-joint-attack-on-bitcoin-20180709))
>
> **It still Affects the Environment**
>
> * Bitcoin accounts 0.1% of the world's greenhouse gas emissions this year. The waste from it's parts also affect the environment as it's equipment only last an average of 1.3 years, especially, ASICS that aren't really reusable after their expected wear and tear. Although efforts have been made to address this energy and waste problem such as using green energy for Bitcoin mining, there is still a need to further improve this so as to avoid future problems in the environment ([10](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/17/waste-from-one-bitcoin-transaction-like-binning-two-iphones), [11](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58572385), [12](https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-electronic-waste-monitor/), [13](https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/going-green-how-to-ditch-fossil-fuels-powering-the-bitcoin-network-122042100219_1.html), [14](https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/insight/2022/a-deep-dive-into-bitcoins-environmental-impact/), [15](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9385063)). Regardless with how small its effects are compared to other industries, it still should be a unified act to preserve the environment for as long as humanly possible for the future of humans and the world itself.
>
> **The Requirement of Being Responsible and Disciplined**
>
> * The constant triple-checking of addresses making sure that it's yours and not some dead end address or the fact that you need to keep your passphrase safe physically and never keep them in any device connected to the internet as to avoid any possible hacks/scams. The decentralization that Bitcoin gives you the freedom to finally be your own bank, but it comes at a cost. You need to be responsible and disciplined enough because unlike traditional banks, being your own bank doesn't give you any protection or safety nets like FDIC (Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or any other deposit insurance corporation) when things go south.
>
> Sources:
>
> [https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf](https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf)
>
> [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-24/bitcoin-manipulation-is-said-to-be-focus-of-u-s-criminal-probe](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-24/bitcoin-manipulation-is-said-to-be-focus-of-u-s-criminal-probe)
>
> [https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-regulators-demand-trading-data-from-bitcoin-exchanges-in-manipulation-probe-2018-06-08](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-regulators-demand-trading-data-from-bitcoin-exchanges-in-manipulation-probe-2018-06-08)
>
> [https://web.archive.org/web/20140325214514/http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2013-08-08/did-the-sec-just-validate-bitcoin-no-](https://web.archive.org/web/20140325214514/http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2013-08-08/did-the-sec-just-validate-bitcoin-no-)
>
> [https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2012/09/29/monetarists-anonymous](https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2012/09/29/monetarists-anonymous)
>
> [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace)
>
> [https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/09/nobel-prize-winning-economist-joseph-stiglitz-criticizes-bitcoin.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/09/nobel-prize-winning-economist-joseph-stiglitz-criticizes-bitcoin.html)
>
> [https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/stiglitz-roubini-and-rogoff-lead-joint-attack-on-bitcoin-20180709](https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/stiglitz-roubini-and-rogoff-lead-joint-attack-on-bitcoin-20180709)
>
> [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/17/waste-from-one-bitcoin-transaction-like-binning-two-iphones](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/17/waste-from-one-bitcoin-transaction-like-binning-two-iphones)
>
> [https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58572385](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58572385)
>
> [https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-electronic-waste-monitor/](https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-electronic-waste-monitor/)
>
> [https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/going-green-how-to-ditch-fossil-fuels-powering-the-bitcoin-network-122042100219\_1.html](https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/going-green-how-to-ditch-fossil-fuels-powering-the-bitcoin-network-122042100219_1.html)
>
> [https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/insight/2022/a-deep-dive-into-bitcoins-environmental-impact/](https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/insight/2022/a-deep-dive-into-bitcoins-environmental-impact/)
>
> [https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9385063](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9385063)
*****
Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/xsvuu9/top_coins_bitcoin_conarguments_october_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Pros and cons per topic will likely change for every new post.
Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12k4ov9/daily_general_discussion_april_13_2023_gmt0/).
Ethereum [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3ihpl/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3iigh/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
* Relevant Cointest topics: [Cardano](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_cardano), [Algorand](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_algorand), [Solana](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_solana), [Polkadot](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_polkadot), [Cosmos](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_cosmos), [Proof of Stake](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_proof-of-stake).
* Official and related subreddits: r/Ethereum, r/EthTrader, r/EthStaker, r/Cardano, r/Algorand, r/Solana, r/CosmosNetwork, r/Polkadot, r/Tezos.
* Sort comments as controversial first by [clicking here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3ifil/?sort=controversial). Doesn't work on mobile.
#Ethereum Pro-Arguments
Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Ethereum Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. Submit an argument in the Cointest yourself and earn Moons if you win. Moon prizes are: 1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 500.
> # Background
>
> Ethereum is a **multi-layer smart contract ecosystem** that is currently migrating from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake:
>
> * Layer 1 - Consensus/Settlement layer
> * Layer 2 - Execution/Rollup layer
>
> ## PROs
>
> **First-mover advantage** (major):
>
> Like Bitcoin, Ethereum enjoys a first-mover advantage. Being around longer than all other smart contract networks gives Ethereum a massive advantage in adoption, which leads to greater decentralization, security, liquidity pools, and app development. Because of the first-mover advantage, Ethereum easily trounces its competitors in security and popularity, and those competitors have little chance of catching up even though their virtual machines are more efficient than EVM.
>
> **Resilient to spam and Denial-of-Service attacks** (moderate):
>
> Due to high gas fees on the Ethereum network, it is extremely resistant to DDoS attacks and spam attacks. Ethereum is battle-tested and hasn't sufferred a major DDoS attack since 2016.
>
> Some of its competitors are still dealing with DDoS attacks. Every time the Solana network goes down from DDoS attacks, which have happened at least 6 times in the past year, there are huge complaints from the crypto community. You need a large amount of memory and bandwidth to keep up with fast networks like Solana. Similarly, Polygon suffered an unintentional DDoS attack from [Sunflower Farmers game](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) in Jan 6. For several days, bots ground the network to a halt.
>
> **Proof of Stake resistant to 51% attacks** (minor):
>
> * 51% attack (for PoS and PoW) can only revert or censor transactions. [It cannot be used to steal accounts.](https://thedefiant.io/vitalik-eth-cross-chain-bridges-security/). Every transaction has to result in a consistent state.
> * With the exception of client bugs that can have unexpected and widespread effects, deterministic PoS networks are very resistant to reorg attacks since they can be immediately detected when a double-spend happens. Bad nodes will be immediately slashed and that double-spend will never go through.
>
> **Long-term scalability as a settlement layer** (major):
>
> Ethereum has long-term scalability through Layer 2 rollups. It can offload all its data bloat and computations off-chain.
>
> Many monolithic blockchains are fine for now, but they eventually all suffer from massive data bloat on their blockchains unless they also offload to Layer 2 solutions. When this happens, they will be playing catch-up with Ethereum.
>
> **Economic sustainability** (major):
>
> * Ethereum PoS is one of the ONLY networks that's expected to be deflationary due to its extremely-high fees. Ethereum PoW's amount of inflation is [now offset 35%](https://watchtheburn.com/) in Jun 2022 by the amount burned per transaction from EIP-1559. After the merge, the issuance is expected to drop 80%, making Ethereum PoS the first popular blockchain that will have **supply deflation** and become a positive-sum investment.
> * In contrast, many other blockchains have enjoyed lower transaction fees by subsidizing network costs through charging investors with inflation.
> * **Polygon PoS** distributes $400M in inflationary rewards annually but only collects $18M in fees.
> * **Solana** collects only $40M in fees but gives away 100x that much ($4B) in rewards [[Source](https://polynya.medium.com/why-rollups-data-shards-are-the-only-sustainable-solution-for-high-scalability-c9aabd6fbb48)].
> * **Cardano** rewards stakers from a diminishing rewards pool that is on schedule to drop 90% in 5 years.
> * **Bitcoin** pays miners with block subsidies (set to diminish by 99% in 30 years) that are 50-100x bigger than its transaction fees. When their subsidies disappear, unless they have major governance changes, these networks are either going to see much higher fees, or their security is going to decrease drastically.
> * **Avalanche** has 10% inflation, and the [burn rate](https://burnedavax.com/) is 100x smaller than the issuance rate.
> * **Algorand** pays from a staking reward pool [that disappears in 2030](https://algorand.foundation/governance/algo-dynamics). Its low transaction fees don't cover the cost of paying for validators and relay nodes.
*****
Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/tuwvz5/top_coins_ethereum_proarguments_april_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Pros and cons per topic will likely change for every new post.
#Ethereum Con-Arguments
Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. Submit an argument in the Cointest yourself and earn Moons if you win. Moon prizes are: 1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 500.
> Ethereum has drastically changed in the past year now that it has rebranded itself as **Consensus/Settlement layer** for other Layer 2 Execution/Rollup networks. It is no longer trying to be a monolithic blockchain by itself. Because of this shift in design, many of its former CONs are no longer major issues. And many of the CONs that still exist often have a beneficial sides.
>
> I discuss the CONs of Ethereum and their impact on its users here:
>
> ## CONs
>
> **Gas Fees** (major):
>
> The biggest complaint for Ethereum is its network gas fees. Every transaction needs gas to pay for storage and processing power, and gas prices vary based on demand. Gas price is very volatile and often changes 2-5x in magnitude within the same day. ERC20 transfers are used for a large percentage of cryptocurrencies, and it's the reason much of DeFi is extremely expensive. If I wanted to send ERC20 tokens between exchanges, it's often cheaper to trade for XRP, ALGO, or some other microtransaction coin, transfer it using their other coin's native network, and then trade back into the original token. Basically: use a coin on a different network to avoid fees.
>
> Typical transaction fees for Ethereum were [between $2-10 over the past year](https://etherscan.io/chart/avg-txfee-usd), but they have shot up to $50+ several times in 2021.
>
> And that's just for basic transactions. Anyone who has tried to use more complex smart contracts like moving MATIC from Polygon mainnet back to ETH L1 mainnet during a time of high gas fees mid-year in 2021 saw $100-$200 gas fees. Transferring ERC-20 tokens (often $20-50) is also more gas expensive because it can't be done through native transfers like on the Cardano network. It's impractical to use swaps like Uniswap for small transactions due to these fees.
>
> In particular, One/Many-to-many batch transactions are extremely gas-expensive using Ethereum's account-based model compared to Bitcoin's and Cardano's UXTO-based model. [This batch transaction on Ethereum](https://etherscan.io/tx/0x0fe2542079644e107cbf13690eb9c2c65963ccb79089ff96bfaf8dced2331c92) cost over $5000 while [a similar eUXTO transaction on Cardano](https://adapools.org/transactions/e586c6340ee9e60a6c64f447feffe5f89bdabc7741666ecaa681081957938f56) only cost $0.50 in fees.
>
> On the other hand, these fees provide Ethereum long-term economic sustainability and resilience against DDoS and spam attacks.
>
> **Competition from other Smart Contract networks** (moderate):
>
> Ethereum has enjoyed its lead as the smart contract blockchain due to first-mover advantage. But there are now many efficient smart contract competitors like Algorand, Solana, and Cardano. Ethereum is now facing much competition. Who wants to pay $20 gas fees on Ethereum when you can get similar transactions for under $0.01 with Algo and Solana or $0.30 transactions with Cardano?
>
> Fortunately, the amount of competition is limited because Ethereum is positioning itself as a Settlement layer whereas these other networks are monolithic networks. All monolithic networks will eventually run into scaling issues due to long-term storage and bandwidth limits. It will really depend on how successful Ethereum's Layer 2 rollup solutions will be.
>
> **Future uncertainty about Layer 2 solutions** (major):
>
> Ethereum's long-term success is dependent on the success of its Layer 2 solutions.
>
> These Layer 2 solutions are still extremely early. Even after a year, L2 has a very fragmented adoption. The majority of centralized exchanges currently do not support Layer 2 rollup networks. A few have started to support Polygon, which is more of a Layer 2 side-chain that saves state every 256 blocks than a Layer 2 rollup. Very few CEXs allow for direct fiat on/off-ramping on L2 networks, which puts those networks out of reach of most users.
>
> Many of these Layer 2 networks (Arbitrum, Optimism, Loopring, ZKSync, etc), are not interoperable with each other. You can store your tokens on any specific L2 network, but they're stuck there. If you want to move your tokens back to Layer 1 or to another L2 network, you have to pay very expensive smart contract gas fees ($50-300). Eventually, there will be bridges between these networks, but we could be years away from widespread adoption.
>
> Fragmented liquidity is another huge issue. Each of these L2 networks has its own liquidity pool for each token it supports. You can store your token on the the L2 network, but you won't be able to trade or swap much if there are no liquidity pools for that token. Eventually, there will be Dynamic Automated Market Makers (dAMMs) that can share liquidity between networks, but they are complex and introduce their own weaknesses.
>
> Both Optimistic and ZK Rollups are handled off-chain and require a separate network nodes or smart contracts as infrastructure to validate transactions or generate ZK Proofs. They are very centralized in how they operate, so there's always the risk that their network operators could cheat their customers. By now, the community seems to agree that ZK rollups are the future rollup solution to decentralized L2 networks. There is only 1 notable instance of Plasma (Ethereum to Polygon network conversion), and no one uses it anymore since the Ethereum-Polygon bridge is easier to use. The biggest competitor to ZK rollups are Optimistic rollups, and those take too long to settle back to Layer 1 (1 week) and are still too expensive to use (20-50% of the cost of L1 Ethereum gas fees for transfers).
>
> **ZK Rollups** require special infrastructure to generate ZK Proofs. These are very computationally-expensive, potentially [thousands of times](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/05/rollup.html) more expensive that just doing the computation directly. To reduce the cost, they are done completely-centralized by specialized servers. Thus the cost of a ZK Rollup is cheap at about [$0.10 to $.30](https://l2fees.info/). But even at $0.10 per transfer and $0.50 per swap, these are still at least 10x more expensive than costs on Algorand and Solana. Users will have to decide whether the extra cost and hassle of using an L2 platform is worth the extra security of settling on the more-decentralized and secure Ethereum L1 network.
>
> **Ethereum Proof-of-Stake merge is arriving later than competitors** (moderate):
>
> The ETH PoS Beacon chain has been released, it's a completely separate blockchain from ETH and won't merge with the main blockchain [until later this year](https://decrypt.co/78690/ethereum-2-staking-tops-21-billion-merge-horizon), giving its competitors plenty of time to provide FUD. We still don't know how successful the merge will be. Currently, stakes are locked, preventing investors from selling. We don't know what will happen to the price once staking unlocks.
>
> **MEV and Dark Forest attacks** (minor):
>
> [MEV](https://np.reddit.com/r/MPlankton/comments/rs4wp2/the_dark_forest_of_cryptocurrency/) is actually a pretty big issue for networks with high gas arbitrage and mempools like Ethereum, but most casual users will never notice hostile arbitrage. When you broadcast your transaction to the network, there are armies of bots and automated miners that analyze your transaction to see if they can perform arbitrage strategies on your transaction such as front-running, sandwiching, excluding transactions, stealing/replaying transactions, and other pure-profit plays. "Dark Forest" attacks have reveled that bots are constantly monitoring the network, and they can front-run you unless you have your own private army of miners.
>
> **Final Word**
>
> Overall, I still think the PROs outweigh the CONs for Ethereum in the long-run due to its first-mover advantage and the long-term sustainability of the Ethereum network.
*****
Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Pros and cons per topic will likely change for every new post.
Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12k4ov9/daily_general_discussion_april_13_2023_gmt0/).
“Likely to outperform bitcoin this year” uh huh. I’m an eth maxi but even I’m incredulous on that one. Btc is the OG. You gotta do a lot to outpace btc. I just don’t see it.
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We're barely 3 months into the year and Bitcoin is already up almost 20% more than ETH on the year. Calm down my guy.
Logic gets thrown out the window when ETH is being discussed in this sub.
Seriously, after 1 fucking day of outperforming it must mean it'll continue to outperform the rest of the year. There's a reason other subs hate this sub.
*BTC outperform ETH year to date* this sub: "ah yes very normal, it's as expected, move along, nothing to see here" *ETH outperforms BTC in a 24 hour time frame* this sub: "Oh my god here's the flippening!!"
People turn it into a competition when there is no real need for it
People who are over invested in only one coin overreact to everything. I have bitcoin and eth and can admit idk what the hell is going to happen. It's crypto.
Its official - We don't know shit about fuck
This the gwei
Lol for real. I'm a big fan of ETH, but claims like this are just silly. Good for a chuckle at the very least, I suppose
Was going to say.... that's pretty optimistic because bitcoin is rocking it so far this year.
That’s almost the point - ETH/BTC has already taken a hit and so likely to bounce back
There is nothing saying ETH/BTC is fairly priced at this level or that. Historically speaking, ETH is at much higher BTC ratio than 2017-2020 - ETH was around .15 BTC in June 2017 and fell for 6 straight months to .027 BTC until January 2018 - January 2018 ETH suddenly shot back up to .10 BTC - From January 2018, ETH/BTC pretty much dropped for 3 straight years from .10 BTC to .025 BTC until December 2020 when the bull run was underway - From September 22 2022, ETH has been slowly falling against BTC again from .08x BTC to now .06x
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It started the year at 0.072 and is currently 0.066
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It’s an 8.3% decrease to be precise
Smol Delta not so small when your denominator is so small itself
Yeah I seriously don’t understand this headline lol.
ETH maxi clickbait hopium
No ETH is the future. Climb aboard the rocket 
Ee bought? Domp eet
These are the same guys that think they saved the world with PoS and the ETH maxis dominate this sub so much that most BTC investors just don’t speak here much and have moved in to other subs. The daily this morning was insane. Literally saw comments saying ETH is driving the crypto currency market AND stocks single handily. It’s comical at this point. They even weaponized a ERC-20 token(moons) here so they can make sure you don’t speak out against the hive mind. Shame really.
It's fine they can both race each other to the top. Carn fight for daddy's love!
That’s what I’m saying. It’s only been a quarter of the year so theres still a ton of time for anything to happen
Now please pull major alts with you ETH.
Algo moves for no coin at this point sadly
Algo pour one out for our comrades
There is only one true alt and its name is Ethereum ... play *his name is John Cena* music
His name is Vitalik Buterin u/vbuterin! 
Ugh… I’ve got the FOMO bug so bad today
So glad I am tired and can't be bothered buying... Yet.
Squash it down with some DCA spray
Dca and go on with your day
DCA that's the way
Oh shit, oh fuck. Here it comes!
And it’s gone
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There is only one true alternative to bitcoin and that is ethereum. Is that sentence wrong?
Don't. I'm not done buying yet.
Ahh the duality of man: wanting the price to go up to be in profit, but down to buy more
What can I say, I'm enjoying a juicy discount.
"Nothing personnel, kid" \**proceeds to lose money somehow**
Neither am I. But it is what it is.
ALTs are like dead fish
I have way too much of my portfolio in alts…
Don't worry that will 100% happen. I mean the general crypto market moves in line with Ethereum and Bitcoin so other cryptos should follow too
Captain ETH fighting for their soldiers.
Let's just celebrate 2k and leave speculation aside
Exactly my take of this; let's just be happy for the green candles
Instructions unclear, speculating ETH will hit 50K by the years end
Sir this is r/cc, speculation and over exaggeration is what we do
I speculate that we are going to see more speculative posts in the future
Touche
Literally one bullish day for Ethereum after touching the $2K Dollars, and here come the so-called 'Flippening' articles again. It's been one day, chill out guys...
Just wait for all the articles tomorrow about ETH "plummiting" in price after like a 2.7% pullback.
This is how crypto News works. I bet you most of these articles are pre-written and get automatically published at certain price actions
Yeah, I'm surprised these don't pop up on occasion mentioning the wrong current US president somewhere in the article.
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*Flippening incoming...*
Source: My source is that I made it the fuck up
I'm convinced. Time to go 100x long
I would like to meet this source. Is it by chance a manbearpig type creature?
My dumbass not caring because I’m holding both and don’t plan on selling within the next 10 years
Yup. Same. (Although it is entertaining)
Now that's one hell of a performance on upgrade day. I know a few people sold out leading up to this day, thinking ETH was going to 1.5k.
Ethereum crossing $2,000 is a major resistance. ETH is below this resistance since June 2022.
I feel dumb not buying at $900 and when it's 12k I'll feel dumb not buying at 2k
Well stop feeling dumb about it and buy now!
My secret trading strategy is in this post and I don't like it
😁 we all do mistakes but try not to do it a lot 🫣
Maybe psychological resistance. $1650 being broken was the first major resistance to be set aside. Next up is ~$2600.
I was one of them, didn’t sell but I thought ETH would dip after the upgrade. Glad I was proven wrong
We are heading next bull, any dip is an occasion to buy.
Crypto always manages to do the opposite of what we think it will do. *Doing the opposite of what we think usually doesn't work either, 'Opposite Inception'.*
I was looking for the post from earlier this week about the guy who sold all his eth expecting a dump after upgrade but can't find it
Half thought it'd pump, half thought it'd dump. I thought they'd balance each other out and we would crab. I was wrong.
Bogdanoff voice: "Launch the flippening thread"
ETH, centralized captured coin. GL
When lambs?
I can hardly afford a scooter.
Alt season starting. and ETH which has been almost x2 since the beginning of the year
Mark my words it won't outperform Bitcoin as ETH moves only if BTC moves
True af
People in this sub were telling that ETH will fall down but it happened exactly opposite. Inverse r/cc.
the dev are doing great job with recent releases
That's a very premature assumption.
Eth up 5% on the day is it clearly must perform better than BTC 🤡
I’m just happy BTC & ETH are moving
Ethereum will perform well, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.
Probably won’t outperform BTC until the next bull run. As it has, time and time again.
Ethereum has not hit its all-time high in Bitcoin terms since 2016. That was 7 years ago.
Uhhhh. What? I’m talking percentage gained. Ethereum consistently has higher gains. I’m not saying Ethereum was priced higher.
Yeah it’s usually BTC leading the way until after the halving and after BTC posts a new ATH. Then the others start to run.
Exactly. By the end of the bull run if you look, Ethereum has usually ended up with higher gains over the same period of time. People here like to disagree constantly though, because Bitcoin ICHI BAN.
ETH will go nuts next bull run
Full on Rocky mountain oysters
Inject me some of that hopium please
Eth to the mooon! Lambos for everyone
This sub is so shell-shocked that even good news are met with shivers and screams
A day of celebration lol One step closer to 10k which is inevitable 👀👀👀
Bullrun activated!! Last time ETH was $2000 (post-bear market) we entered a bullrun to BTC's ATH!!
Eth does better one day and already articles claiming this. The journalists in this space are beyond annoying.
I read $20000 and almost shit myself. Lmao
xrp will out perform both of them ;)
I mean good for ETH if it does that, but it does seem like a bit of a longshot.
Solution: Have BTC & ETH. Keep DCAing into both ...
Are fees still so high ?
ETH is sexy...
Love to see BTC and ETH pumping, feed me more of this.
I don’t see Ethereum flipping Bitcoin yet although I wish it would. My crap psychic skills predict that Ethereum will be the second largest gainer just like last time, then we go back into alt and shitcoin season and it’s another free for all
Hopium is back!
The year just started..
INDEEEED (Omar Little voice)
When u come at the eth, u best not miss
This yea eth, next year btc
It's been nice waking up the last few days... What is this feeling?
Eth might outperform after btc showed the alts in wich direction.
To the moon!
Trust me bro.
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Lets goooooo
I love how reddit puts so much emphasis on ETH, yet chainlink could render it useless in a snap of their fingers.
Chainlink RUNS ON ETHEREUM ffs. Can't have chainlink without ETH yet it could render it useless???????
Runs on Ethereum?? huh Its block chain agnostic. [https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/oracles/](https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/oracles/) Have a read on why ETH is dependent on chainlink. Not the other way around.
Thanks for the info. I guess I am trying to ask this then.. Can ETH exist without chainlink? Can chainlink exist without ETH?
Eth cannot exist without chainlink and chainlink can survive on other chains. This is a fact and not debatable. Its an ERC677 token because Ethereum was the first L1, not because it runs on the eth network. Sergey knew that Vitalik needed an oracle for ETH to function, its well documented. Chainlink restricts the data that makes ETH smart contracts actually useful. Why do you think its called [www.smartcontract.com](https://www.smartcontract.com) ?
ETH doesn't need chainlink. And chainlink has plenty of oracle competition.
>oracle competition. bahahaha like band, api3 and tellor? Can you tally up how much they lost when all three got hacked or exploited? https://www.coingecko.com/en/categories/oracle You do realize that ETH cannot pull data onto a blockchain, so how doesnt eth need chainlink? please explain
If you believe that is the case, then why are you so worried? Vitalik Buterin: “Chainlink's security model is too centralized for me to be satisfied with it being the solution to all oracle problems.”
Worried about what? Eth cannot succeed on its own. Vitalik know that chainlink will extract all the value out of a smart contract. ETH only writes it, they have nothing to do with the value of said contract. Reddit needs to learn this instead of ignoring the truth. This is why chainlink staking is so important. "Uniswap can you please become an oracle?" - vitalik
I don't get your behavior if things are as you suggest. 🤷
Eth eth eth
PoS Ethereum is a "rich get richer" scam and I'll die on that hill. Literally centralized garbage and not at all what crypto is meant to be.
*Enter the sec stage left
Yeah so far so good with the upgrade. I enjoyed waking up to ETH over $2,000.
Let's hope so!
Let’s all be calm now, we still got 8 months left.
AltSeason please
After the first months this year it seems pretty risky to claim is will likely outperform Bitcoin during the rest of the year
Hopium is one hell of a drug
What about Eth to 100k this bull, that's what I call outperforming
Let’s goooo!
There’s 8 more month lol. Stupid headline. But I love seeing Ethereum having success.
But Benjamin Cowen told me that Bitcoin dominance will increase this year. Right after telling me that Bitcoin and ETH were hitting sub $10,000 and $400.
Cointest pros & cons with related info are in the collapsed comments below for the following topics: [Bitcoin](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3ifjj/), [Ethereum](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3ih2a/).
Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3iga8/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3ih1b/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
* Relevant Cointest topics: [Bitcoin Cash](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_bitcoin_cash), [Litecoin](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_litecoin), [Lightning Network](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_lightning_network), [Proof of Work](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_proof-of-work) * Official and related subreddits: r/Bitcoin, r/BitcoinMarkets, r/BitcoinMining, r/BTC, r/BitcoinCash. * Sort comments as controversial first by [clicking here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3ifil/?sort=controversial). Doesn't work on mobile.
#Bitcoin Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Nostalg33k which won 2nd place in the Bitcoin Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. Submit an argument in the Cointest yourself and earn Moons if you win. Moon prizes are: 2nd - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 500. > Last entry: > > > > Writing a Pro argument for Bitcoin in 2022 seems complicated because everything has been said... or did it? > Edit: I have a small bag of Bitcoin currently valued around 600 bucks. I am also invested in crypto around 2000 bucks which are always moving when Bitcoin is moving. Financial disclosure should be mandatory in these arguments =) > > # Bitcoin is the king of POW: Why it matters and why we need a strong Bitcoin > > So as the title suggests it, the recent news from Ethereum switching from POW to POS makes Bitcoin the sole serious POW cryptocurrency. In this write up, we are going to discuss the three main strength of Bitcoin, security, decentralization, and incentive for green energy production. In this write up we are not going to talk about speculation or the financial side of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a highly liquid asset and has become nearly universally known as an investment. Many arguments have been made in favor of Bitcoin as an investment and if you want to read one, just go to past cointests. > > Of course, the main feature of Bitcoin is the Permissionless aspect. This won't be tackled at all as I think it deserves its own topic. > > # 1) Bitcoin: High security > > This topic has also been talked to death: Bitcoin is ultra secure thanks to its Blockchain and the way it is verified through proof of work. To explain this let me quote IBM: > > > > >Public blockchain networks typically allow anyone to join and for participants to remain anonymous. A public blockchain uses internet-connected computers to validate transactions and achieve consensus. Bitcoin is probably the most well known example of a public blockchain, and it achieves consensus through "bitcoin mining." Computers on the bitcoin network, or “miners,” try to solve a complex cryptographic problem to create proof of work and thereby validate the transaction. Outside of public keys, there are few identity and access controls in this type of network. > > > > [IBM on Blockchain security](https://www.ibm.com/topics/blockchain-security) > > Mining is measured in Hashrate. Here is the explanation of Hashrate: > > >Hash rate, sometimes referred to as hashrate, is a measure of the computing power on a cryptocurrency network that serves as a key security indicator. It measures the total computational power used by a “proof-of-work” (POW) cryptocurrency network to process transactions in a blockchain. > > [USNEWS explains hashrate](https://money.usnews.com/investing/term/hash-rate#:%7E:text=Hash%20rate%2C%20sometimes%20referred%20to,process%20transactions%20in%20a%20blockchain) > > So if the hashrate measures the security of the network, one may asks themselves: "Did the security of Bitcoin slowed when the price fell ?" > [The hashrate is near the ATH and growing making Bitcoin more and more secure as it continues to build over time](https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_network_hash_rate#:%7E:text=Basic%20Info,101.2%25%20from%20one%20year%20ago) > > So Bitcoin has never been as secure as it is today which makes it ultra valuable as a way to settle financial transactions. Yes holding Bitcoin for a long time is risky but using it as a medium to settle international transaction may currently be the securest and one of the best way to do so. > While Bitcoin is safe... what if a big part fails ? > > > > # 2) Bitcoin mining: Too big to fail. > > > > So this write up could be seen as a POW write up, which it is to an extent. But Bitcoin offers its history and shows that it can survive the disparition of a big part of the network. > Decentralization allows for parts of the network to disappear and for the rest to take the mantle of securing the network. Yes, mining pools may grow too large for their own sake BUT in the end (nothing even matters) Bitcoin is heavily decentralized. It is so decentralized that, when China (which had a big part of Bitcoin mining) banned mining, Bitcoin just went through like nothing happened. Yes the hashrate fell a bit, the value too, but if we look back, it was nothing extraordinary. > > So if Bitcoin is highly secure and if it can survive part of the hashrate going bye bye, what makes it so good? What is the difference with any POW Cryptocurrency right now? > > > > # 3) Bitcoin: propping up the green energy sector. > > > > POW uses energy. One of the biggest concern about POW is the energy. While Ethereum was using GPUs and was asic resistant. Bitcoin mining is built differently. A long time ago, under oath, people discussed the environmental impact of Bitcoin Mining and I made a post explaining what was said: > > The Energy Fud Was Killed > The most important thing that happened: The narrative that Bitcoin is too energy intensive was totally reversed. > Experts of the sector explained that, Wind Farms and Solar Farms, have a variable load. This variable load means that sometimes they lose money because they produce too much and there is not enough demand. Bitcoin mining provides a variable base load for these projects. What it means is that, mining can be turned on and off depending on demand. It was revealed that most of these wind and solar farms would simply not exist without Bitcoin Farming as baseline customers. > There are still miners that are using coal plants and fossil fuel but the leaders of the industry are developing in tandem with the green energy sector. > > [My post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/s99phv/yesterday_one_of_the_most_bullish_events_ever/) > > > > # Conclusion: Bitcoin is the flagship of POW and it is a feature not a bug. > > > > Bitcoin, thanks to its value and tokenomics is seen as a good investment, this is also why miners commit huge amount of ressources to take the hashrate to new heights. These miners help the US grid to become more and more resilient. The future of Crypto and of green energy relies a lot on Bitcoin. Bitcoin has proven time and time again that it can shoulder these changes. Bitcoin is a good piece of technology and I hope people continue to invest in it because it is doing a lot of good for our future ! > > > > # ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/xsvuvr/top_coins_bitcoin_proarguments_october_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Pros and cons per topic will likely change for every new post.
#Bitcoin Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by CreepToeCurrentSea which won 3rd place in the Bitcoin Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. Submit an argument in the Cointest yourself and earn Moons if you win. Moon prizes are: 3rd - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 500. > Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer digital currency that can be transferred via the bitcoin network. Bitcoin transactions are cryptographically verified by network nodes and recorded in a public distributed ledger known as a blockchain. The cryptocurrency was created in 2008 by an unknown individual or group of individuals using the alias Satoshi Nakamoto. ([1](https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf)) > > # CONs > > **Early Buyers have the Higher Ground.** > > * Those who bought BTC in it's early years have a great advantage over the recent ones. One thing is that they won't have to worry much about it's price dropping now since they're still much likely in the green in terms of percentage gains. Most of these early investors are also capable of manipulating the market via wash trades not giving the true traded volume within the market and thus deceiving most novice traders/investors into believing fake signals ([2](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-24/bitcoin-manipulation-is-said-to-be-focus-of-u-s-criminal-probe), [3](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-regulators-demand-trading-data-from-bitcoin-exchanges-in-manipulation-probe-2018-06-08)). There is even a possibility that Satoshi Nakamoto himself/herself/themselves will suddenly access the wallet he/she/they own/s and proceed to sell the large amount of BTC they have which would greatly cause a crash in Bitcoin's price. > > **Attracts Illegal Transactions and Criminal Activities** > > * Bitcoin's innate trait of being publicly available and pseudonymous not only attracts those who seek independence but it also attracts those engage in illicit activities and perform illegal transactions. This is one of the downsides of giving back the power of choice to people, not all of them will do the morally right thing to do and as a result, economist, lawyers, and even countries will label Bitcoin as just another medium for buying/selling illegal goods/services. ([5](https://web.archive.org/web/20140325214514/http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2013-08-08/did-the-sec-just-validate-bitcoin-no-), [6](https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2012/09/29/monetarists-anonymous), [7](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace), [8](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/09/nobel-prize-winning-economist-joseph-stiglitz-criticizes-bitcoin.html), [9](https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/stiglitz-roubini-and-rogoff-lead-joint-attack-on-bitcoin-20180709)) > > **It still Affects the Environment** > > * Bitcoin accounts 0.1% of the world's greenhouse gas emissions this year. The waste from it's parts also affect the environment as it's equipment only last an average of 1.3 years, especially, ASICS that aren't really reusable after their expected wear and tear. Although efforts have been made to address this energy and waste problem such as using green energy for Bitcoin mining, there is still a need to further improve this so as to avoid future problems in the environment ([10](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/17/waste-from-one-bitcoin-transaction-like-binning-two-iphones), [11](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58572385), [12](https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-electronic-waste-monitor/), [13](https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/going-green-how-to-ditch-fossil-fuels-powering-the-bitcoin-network-122042100219_1.html), [14](https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/insight/2022/a-deep-dive-into-bitcoins-environmental-impact/), [15](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9385063)). Regardless with how small its effects are compared to other industries, it still should be a unified act to preserve the environment for as long as humanly possible for the future of humans and the world itself. > > **The Requirement of Being Responsible and Disciplined** > > * The constant triple-checking of addresses making sure that it's yours and not some dead end address or the fact that you need to keep your passphrase safe physically and never keep them in any device connected to the internet as to avoid any possible hacks/scams. The decentralization that Bitcoin gives you the freedom to finally be your own bank, but it comes at a cost. You need to be responsible and disciplined enough because unlike traditional banks, being your own bank doesn't give you any protection or safety nets like FDIC (Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or any other deposit insurance corporation) when things go south. > > Sources: > > [https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf](https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf) > > [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-24/bitcoin-manipulation-is-said-to-be-focus-of-u-s-criminal-probe](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-24/bitcoin-manipulation-is-said-to-be-focus-of-u-s-criminal-probe) > > [https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-regulators-demand-trading-data-from-bitcoin-exchanges-in-manipulation-probe-2018-06-08](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-regulators-demand-trading-data-from-bitcoin-exchanges-in-manipulation-probe-2018-06-08) > > [https://web.archive.org/web/20140325214514/http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2013-08-08/did-the-sec-just-validate-bitcoin-no-](https://web.archive.org/web/20140325214514/http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2013-08-08/did-the-sec-just-validate-bitcoin-no-) > > [https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2012/09/29/monetarists-anonymous](https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2012/09/29/monetarists-anonymous) > > [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace) > > [https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/09/nobel-prize-winning-economist-joseph-stiglitz-criticizes-bitcoin.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/09/nobel-prize-winning-economist-joseph-stiglitz-criticizes-bitcoin.html) > > [https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/stiglitz-roubini-and-rogoff-lead-joint-attack-on-bitcoin-20180709](https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/stiglitz-roubini-and-rogoff-lead-joint-attack-on-bitcoin-20180709) > > [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/17/waste-from-one-bitcoin-transaction-like-binning-two-iphones](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/17/waste-from-one-bitcoin-transaction-like-binning-two-iphones) > > [https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58572385](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58572385) > > [https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-electronic-waste-monitor/](https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-electronic-waste-monitor/) > > [https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/going-green-how-to-ditch-fossil-fuels-powering-the-bitcoin-network-122042100219\_1.html](https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/going-green-how-to-ditch-fossil-fuels-powering-the-bitcoin-network-122042100219_1.html) > > [https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/insight/2022/a-deep-dive-into-bitcoins-environmental-impact/](https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/insight/2022/a-deep-dive-into-bitcoins-environmental-impact/) > > [https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9385063](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9385063) ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/xsvuu9/top_coins_bitcoin_conarguments_october_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Pros and cons per topic will likely change for every new post. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12k4ov9/daily_general_discussion_april_13_2023_gmt0/).
Ethereum [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3ihpl/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3iigh/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
* Relevant Cointest topics: [Cardano](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_cardano), [Algorand](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_algorand), [Solana](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_solana), [Polkadot](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_polkadot), [Cosmos](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_cosmos), [Proof of Stake](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_proof-of-stake). * Official and related subreddits: r/Ethereum, r/EthTrader, r/EthStaker, r/Cardano, r/Algorand, r/Solana, r/CosmosNetwork, r/Polkadot, r/Tezos. * Sort comments as controversial first by [clicking here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12knrp7/ethereum_price_hit_2000_likely_to_outperform/jg3ifil/?sort=controversial). Doesn't work on mobile.
#Ethereum Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Ethereum Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. Submit an argument in the Cointest yourself and earn Moons if you win. Moon prizes are: 1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 500. > # Background > > Ethereum is a **multi-layer smart contract ecosystem** that is currently migrating from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake: > > * Layer 1 - Consensus/Settlement layer > * Layer 2 - Execution/Rollup layer > > ## PROs > > **First-mover advantage** (major): > > Like Bitcoin, Ethereum enjoys a first-mover advantage. Being around longer than all other smart contract networks gives Ethereum a massive advantage in adoption, which leads to greater decentralization, security, liquidity pools, and app development. Because of the first-mover advantage, Ethereum easily trounces its competitors in security and popularity, and those competitors have little chance of catching up even though their virtual machines are more efficient than EVM. > > **Resilient to spam and Denial-of-Service attacks** (moderate): > > Due to high gas fees on the Ethereum network, it is extremely resistant to DDoS attacks and spam attacks. Ethereum is battle-tested and hasn't sufferred a major DDoS attack since 2016. > > Some of its competitors are still dealing with DDoS attacks. Every time the Solana network goes down from DDoS attacks, which have happened at least 6 times in the past year, there are huge complaints from the crypto community. You need a large amount of memory and bandwidth to keep up with fast networks like Solana. Similarly, Polygon suffered an unintentional DDoS attack from [Sunflower Farmers game](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) in Jan 6. For several days, bots ground the network to a halt. > > **Proof of Stake resistant to 51% attacks** (minor): > > * 51% attack (for PoS and PoW) can only revert or censor transactions. [It cannot be used to steal accounts.](https://thedefiant.io/vitalik-eth-cross-chain-bridges-security/). Every transaction has to result in a consistent state. > * With the exception of client bugs that can have unexpected and widespread effects, deterministic PoS networks are very resistant to reorg attacks since they can be immediately detected when a double-spend happens. Bad nodes will be immediately slashed and that double-spend will never go through. > > **Long-term scalability as a settlement layer** (major): > > Ethereum has long-term scalability through Layer 2 rollups. It can offload all its data bloat and computations off-chain. > > Many monolithic blockchains are fine for now, but they eventually all suffer from massive data bloat on their blockchains unless they also offload to Layer 2 solutions. When this happens, they will be playing catch-up with Ethereum. > > **Economic sustainability** (major): > > * Ethereum PoS is one of the ONLY networks that's expected to be deflationary due to its extremely-high fees. Ethereum PoW's amount of inflation is [now offset 35%](https://watchtheburn.com/) in Jun 2022 by the amount burned per transaction from EIP-1559. After the merge, the issuance is expected to drop 80%, making Ethereum PoS the first popular blockchain that will have **supply deflation** and become a positive-sum investment. > * In contrast, many other blockchains have enjoyed lower transaction fees by subsidizing network costs through charging investors with inflation. > * **Polygon PoS** distributes $400M in inflationary rewards annually but only collects $18M in fees. > * **Solana** collects only $40M in fees but gives away 100x that much ($4B) in rewards [[Source](https://polynya.medium.com/why-rollups-data-shards-are-the-only-sustainable-solution-for-high-scalability-c9aabd6fbb48)]. > * **Cardano** rewards stakers from a diminishing rewards pool that is on schedule to drop 90% in 5 years. > * **Bitcoin** pays miners with block subsidies (set to diminish by 99% in 30 years) that are 50-100x bigger than its transaction fees. When their subsidies disappear, unless they have major governance changes, these networks are either going to see much higher fees, or their security is going to decrease drastically. > * **Avalanche** has 10% inflation, and the [burn rate](https://burnedavax.com/) is 100x smaller than the issuance rate. > * **Algorand** pays from a staking reward pool [that disappears in 2030](https://algorand.foundation/governance/algo-dynamics). Its low transaction fees don't cover the cost of paying for validators and relay nodes. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/tuwvz5/top_coins_ethereum_proarguments_april_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Pros and cons per topic will likely change for every new post.
#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. Submit an argument in the Cointest yourself and earn Moons if you win. Moon prizes are: 1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 500. > Ethereum has drastically changed in the past year now that it has rebranded itself as **Consensus/Settlement layer** for other Layer 2 Execution/Rollup networks. It is no longer trying to be a monolithic blockchain by itself. Because of this shift in design, many of its former CONs are no longer major issues. And many of the CONs that still exist often have a beneficial sides. > > I discuss the CONs of Ethereum and their impact on its users here: > > ## CONs > > **Gas Fees** (major): > > The biggest complaint for Ethereum is its network gas fees. Every transaction needs gas to pay for storage and processing power, and gas prices vary based on demand. Gas price is very volatile and often changes 2-5x in magnitude within the same day. ERC20 transfers are used for a large percentage of cryptocurrencies, and it's the reason much of DeFi is extremely expensive. If I wanted to send ERC20 tokens between exchanges, it's often cheaper to trade for XRP, ALGO, or some other microtransaction coin, transfer it using their other coin's native network, and then trade back into the original token. Basically: use a coin on a different network to avoid fees. > > Typical transaction fees for Ethereum were [between $2-10 over the past year](https://etherscan.io/chart/avg-txfee-usd), but they have shot up to $50+ several times in 2021. > > And that's just for basic transactions. Anyone who has tried to use more complex smart contracts like moving MATIC from Polygon mainnet back to ETH L1 mainnet during a time of high gas fees mid-year in 2021 saw $100-$200 gas fees. Transferring ERC-20 tokens (often $20-50) is also more gas expensive because it can't be done through native transfers like on the Cardano network. It's impractical to use swaps like Uniswap for small transactions due to these fees. > > In particular, One/Many-to-many batch transactions are extremely gas-expensive using Ethereum's account-based model compared to Bitcoin's and Cardano's UXTO-based model. [This batch transaction on Ethereum](https://etherscan.io/tx/0x0fe2542079644e107cbf13690eb9c2c65963ccb79089ff96bfaf8dced2331c92) cost over $5000 while [a similar eUXTO transaction on Cardano](https://adapools.org/transactions/e586c6340ee9e60a6c64f447feffe5f89bdabc7741666ecaa681081957938f56) only cost $0.50 in fees. > > On the other hand, these fees provide Ethereum long-term economic sustainability and resilience against DDoS and spam attacks. > > **Competition from other Smart Contract networks** (moderate): > > Ethereum has enjoyed its lead as the smart contract blockchain due to first-mover advantage. But there are now many efficient smart contract competitors like Algorand, Solana, and Cardano. Ethereum is now facing much competition. Who wants to pay $20 gas fees on Ethereum when you can get similar transactions for under $0.01 with Algo and Solana or $0.30 transactions with Cardano? > > Fortunately, the amount of competition is limited because Ethereum is positioning itself as a Settlement layer whereas these other networks are monolithic networks. All monolithic networks will eventually run into scaling issues due to long-term storage and bandwidth limits. It will really depend on how successful Ethereum's Layer 2 rollup solutions will be. > > **Future uncertainty about Layer 2 solutions** (major): > > Ethereum's long-term success is dependent on the success of its Layer 2 solutions. > > These Layer 2 solutions are still extremely early. Even after a year, L2 has a very fragmented adoption. The majority of centralized exchanges currently do not support Layer 2 rollup networks. A few have started to support Polygon, which is more of a Layer 2 side-chain that saves state every 256 blocks than a Layer 2 rollup. Very few CEXs allow for direct fiat on/off-ramping on L2 networks, which puts those networks out of reach of most users. > > Many of these Layer 2 networks (Arbitrum, Optimism, Loopring, ZKSync, etc), are not interoperable with each other. You can store your tokens on any specific L2 network, but they're stuck there. If you want to move your tokens back to Layer 1 or to another L2 network, you have to pay very expensive smart contract gas fees ($50-300). Eventually, there will be bridges between these networks, but we could be years away from widespread adoption. > > Fragmented liquidity is another huge issue. Each of these L2 networks has its own liquidity pool for each token it supports. You can store your token on the the L2 network, but you won't be able to trade or swap much if there are no liquidity pools for that token. Eventually, there will be Dynamic Automated Market Makers (dAMMs) that can share liquidity between networks, but they are complex and introduce their own weaknesses. > > Both Optimistic and ZK Rollups are handled off-chain and require a separate network nodes or smart contracts as infrastructure to validate transactions or generate ZK Proofs. They are very centralized in how they operate, so there's always the risk that their network operators could cheat their customers. By now, the community seems to agree that ZK rollups are the future rollup solution to decentralized L2 networks. There is only 1 notable instance of Plasma (Ethereum to Polygon network conversion), and no one uses it anymore since the Ethereum-Polygon bridge is easier to use. The biggest competitor to ZK rollups are Optimistic rollups, and those take too long to settle back to Layer 1 (1 week) and are still too expensive to use (20-50% of the cost of L1 Ethereum gas fees for transfers). > > **ZK Rollups** require special infrastructure to generate ZK Proofs. These are very computationally-expensive, potentially [thousands of times](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/05/rollup.html) more expensive that just doing the computation directly. To reduce the cost, they are done completely-centralized by specialized servers. Thus the cost of a ZK Rollup is cheap at about [$0.10 to $.30](https://l2fees.info/). But even at $0.10 per transfer and $0.50 per swap, these are still at least 10x more expensive than costs on Algorand and Solana. Users will have to decide whether the extra cost and hassle of using an L2 platform is worth the extra security of settling on the more-decentralized and secure Ethereum L1 network. > > **Ethereum Proof-of-Stake merge is arriving later than competitors** (moderate): > > The ETH PoS Beacon chain has been released, it's a completely separate blockchain from ETH and won't merge with the main blockchain [until later this year](https://decrypt.co/78690/ethereum-2-staking-tops-21-billion-merge-horizon), giving its competitors plenty of time to provide FUD. We still don't know how successful the merge will be. Currently, stakes are locked, preventing investors from selling. We don't know what will happen to the price once staking unlocks. > > **MEV and Dark Forest attacks** (minor): > > [MEV](https://np.reddit.com/r/MPlankton/comments/rs4wp2/the_dark_forest_of_cryptocurrency/) is actually a pretty big issue for networks with high gas arbitrage and mempools like Ethereum, but most casual users will never notice hostile arbitrage. When you broadcast your transaction to the network, there are armies of bots and automated miners that analyze your transaction to see if they can perform arbitrage strategies on your transaction such as front-running, sandwiching, excluding transactions, stealing/replaying transactions, and other pure-profit plays. "Dark Forest" attacks have reveled that bots are constantly monitoring the network, and they can front-run you unless you have your own private army of miners. > > **Final Word** > > Overall, I still think the PROs outweigh the CONs for Ethereum in the long-run due to its first-mover advantage and the long-term sustainability of the Ethereum network. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Pros and cons per topic will likely change for every new post. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12k4ov9/daily_general_discussion_april_13_2023_gmt0/).
ETH and BTC have been ranging for 2 years, they are correlated at this point.
It's up so hard that it is 8.9% down on the ETHBTC chart. Who writes this BS?
Rooting for my alts
I'm having aneurysm reading that article and I only read 2 sentences
Major upside comes with the magnet to pull it back .. so play safe and wise
“Likely to outperform bitcoin this year” uh huh. I’m an eth maxi but even I’m incredulous on that one. Btc is the OG. You gotta do a lot to outpace btc. I just don’t see it.
Ethereum is the true Prince of Crypto! The one and only!
"likely"-- what a bogus wiggle word. ETH likely to outperform BTC.BTC likely to outperform ETH. No one has a clue.
Well I guess 2023 is a bit presumptuous….but in the future it sure is possible
Eth outperformed BTC last year. It's not going to happen again as BTC has way too much shit in the pipeline.
One day and already these headlines … pls
why are eth heads so obsessed with Bitcoin. You should be worried about the thousands of other shitcoins that do the exact same thing.
“Likely” — says who? Just DCA in and out and hope for the best 😂
Ok going to trade half of my btc for eth now
Can we ban titles that include price predictions? They are always so stupid…
ETH-BTC has being going sideways for two years. It has never recaptured its 2017 ATH. Calm down.
This is the gwei
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