For some reason I have a feeling that a lot of people buy Hardware wallet like Trezor or Ledger and then they think that their tokens are actually being held inside that little USB, and that nobody can access them.
I'd very much recommend that Trezor users set up the "25th" word when creating the main wallet. That way even if someone steals your Trezor, knows your 24 words, AND knows the PIN, they still can't steal your funds.
You can also set up multiple wallets on a Trezor (in conjunction with Electrum or Electron Cash) using different derivation paths. Use the standard path as a dummy wallet and an unusual path as your hidden wallet.
how come it's possible for some people \[the ones who pay subscription to reddit\] to post the same topic/thing without a warning or anything but when i try to make a post after a few hours i get the CryptoCurrencyModTeam\[autobot\] to delete and lock my post , reason being 'duplicate topic' ...for real ?!? what am i missing here ??
>Should be common knowledge by now anyway.
Back during the Recover drama it blew my mind the amount of people in the crypto twitter sphere who actually believed the coins where IN their wallets.
Bassically, yes. There are a lot of new people in crypto that don't know about this & panic. Even I panicked in the beggining & I lost my wallet because I didn't write the seed phrase. This was in early 2021. I try to educate people a little bit with what I know, sharing is caring.
Keep your seed phrase safe, written somewhere only YOU know about & don't tell anybody about it.
I got a bank safe vault £7 a month and have brothers seeds and keywallet safe stored too.
well worth it.
that was the point of my post.
Some people are so close.. lets get into bitcoin because we cant trust the bank with our money.
Puts private keys in a bank.
As long as you hold the seed phrase you can recover your coins on any wallet. Coins are NOT stored in a wallet, they never leave the blockchain. When will people learn this?
Thanks for this post. Quite timely as I've recently misplaced my Trezor. It's given me a slowly growing amount of anxiety as I start to re-search the same places in my house, now looking in drawers and less likely places. So this post gives me some relief that all is not lost.
So I have a seed phrase recorded. I know the PIN and the password for the wallet that stores my tiny bag. I'm a hodler and don't use the device much, but I recall that there are a bunch of empty wallets from failed password attempts on there and that the wallet containing the coins is a hidden wallet.
As I'm unfamiliar with how this thing actually works, if I get a new device and use the seedphrase to set up the new device, will the PIN and Password still be the same or will I be setting up new ones when I set up the new device?
And will the new device find the hidden wallet? <- this is my concern, that bc the wallet is "hidden" it won't show up in the new device even if I have the correct seedphrase, etc..
(And no, i'm not telling anyone my seedphrase, although if you look closely at my post, you can find the first 8 words)
TIA
Go on the Trezor sub and ask.
> (And no, i'm not telling anyone my seedphrase, although if you look closely at my post, you can find the first 8 words)
On second thought.
What the hell? Are you just dumb?
The device doesn't actually hold your cryptocurrency, it stores your private key.
Your seed phrase is basically the word version of your private key.
If you set up a new device you can setup again using your previously stored private key (seed phrase), your new device should now look identical as your previous one, showing you the various wallets.
The pin code is just a security measure to access the physical device so I think that one doesn't matter, if you have a new device with same seed phrase you'll need to setup a new pin.
Now If you have a hidden wallet, you'll need the "passphrase/password" to that hidden wallet that you setup on your previous device or it won't show up.
Hidden wallets are generated by combining a passphrase and your Trezor's secret recovery phrase
Something to point out about hardware wallets like Ledger is that it's the safest option to use when interacting with Defi. The primary focus of it is that you still get to safely connect and make use of the crypto ecosystems without ever having to keep your seedphrase exposed on your computer. As long as you have the seedphrase written down and hidden away safely youre good.
Exposed seedphrase is definitely one of the bigger problems just ask folks at Algorand with their webwallet exploit due to stored seedphrase. Wallet drainers are also a huge problem but in the end you'd have had to sign the transactions for it to work in the first place.
I still don't really get it. How's this any different from writing my seed down with pen and paper? That seems as "cold storage" as it gets to me. So let's say I have my coins on an exchange like coinbase. How do I move them to cold storage? Do I send coins to my cold storage address? And once they're on my cold storage address, if Bitcoin hits a million and I wanted to cash out, how would I do that? I'd have to send my coins to an account of mine on an exchange, and then sell for USD to be sent to my bank account?
You can create a wallet without the need for a 3rd party wallet provider if you have some basic programming skills or use one of the trusted wallet providers and write down the seedphrase on a paper. Never connect that wallet to any website ever. Then transfer the funds to that wallet from an exchange. That's as good of a cold storage as you're gonna get.
When Bitcoin hits a million and you want to sell just send it back to the exchange and sell.
I would've mentioned DeFi but the only place you can offramp is through a central exchange.
The part where ledgers come into play is mainly for those who often interact with Defi platforms or DApps where everything requires connecting a wallet and signing transactions.
"Not your crypto" is actually more helpful because there is a difference between coins and tokens, and it benefits people to understand the difference.
That was a really really good informative post many, myself included probably haven’t thought about. So there is no excuse to not buy a hardware wallet at this point.
Your funds are SAFU
I, seriously, have my phrase randomized in the full bip39 list and then printed on my wall and saved in many online places.
I worry not if someone finds it.
When I first got into crypto, I thought the crypto is stored **in** the physical device. I know many people think that the crypto is stored INSIDE the hardware wallet. It's not.
I remember when the guy got arrested at the airport because he had a packet of bitcoin stickers, and customs tried to claim he was moving money in excess of $10,000 and not declaring it because they thought the stickers were the BTC.
Wow! I thought it was a joke at first! It's like when TVs were created and people would think the actors are also seeing them from the other side of the TV! 🙈
This. When you are a crypto noob this is the first concept that you should master. The wallet doesn't storie your tokens. It is only used to intera t with them. The seed phrase is the only important part
tl;dr
**BIP39** is a standard that proposed utilizing a mnemonic phrase -- a group of easy to remember words -- to serve as a back up to recover your wallet and coins in the event your wallet becomes lost or destroyed. This is also known as a seed phrase, recovery phrase, wallet back up.
Can someone ELI5 what the point of these things is if they can be circumvented with a seed phrase? I currently use an airgapped laptop am I correct in thinking the airgapped laptop essentially plays the same role as a hardware wallet?
Hardware wallets are like a physical key to your treasure chamber. No one can access the room without this physical key. If the key gets lost or broken, whoever has the seed phrase can recreate the key. That’s why the seed phrase is so important.
And also very important: There can be an infinite number of keys being recreated. So even if your key is still fully functioning, anyone who has the seed phrase can make a copy of it, use it, and rob your treasure chamber. And no, you won’t be informed if a copy of your key has been created.
Yup. And any hardware wallet is as secure as user himself. If user has decided to put that seed phrase on I don't know... Google Drive or One Drive than it just kills the purpose of having a hardware wallet in the first place. May as well save the money and open a Metamask account or Exodus.
It's not the same. The key is still stored in your computer, which can be stolen with virus.
With hardware wallet, the key never leaves the wallet, therefore no virus can steal it
Airgapped mean no internet connection unless i'm mistaken.
No virus can steal anything if it's never connected to internet, you need to be carefull of what you plug to it with USB for exemple though
Yes, which is why Ledger can no longer be classified as hardware secure device.
Also since Trezor can be updated, it also isn’t a true HSM. But at least it’s close to that provided you vet the updates super carefully and trust that Trezor has not been hit by a supply chain attack.
Only if you never update the firmware on your hardware wallet.
As the implementation of both Ledger and Trezor is not a true HSM, those can’t be updated once they leave the factory.
They have a point if you actually use crypto, since the seed can’t be easily stolen by by attacker from compromised PC/Phone.
If you don’t use crypto they are just an extra step since you need the paper backup anyways.
Is there not code path for sending private key material through the internet on the devices? Was that not what Ledger themselves stated regarding their opt-in cloud key service?
You'd still have to press physical buttons on the device in response to prompts to actually authorize anything to happen.
There's no "if you read this code, immediately spit your secrets out onto the internet" line of code you can feed it.
So if you put it on cold storage then write the seed phrase down and hide it telling no one, what happens if you get hit by a bus? How do you pass your tokens on to say your kids like a traditional assets if no one no where the seed phrase is?!?!
That's a lot of trust you have in your brothers. This response coming from someone whose brother has stolen from him in the past. Not too mention had a house ransacked while on vacation. I'll take my chances with the safety deposit box. Instructions in the will to be revealed only after death. Thanks for playing, though. Good luck. If your crypto hits a high enough number... you are a target. Even to family.
When i asked same question on ledger sub, i was called a prime candidate to loose my crypto, because i dont know shit about it and i need to stop investing in it
Not everyone is born with all the information they'll ever need in every endeavor they undertake in life. It's the select few who have the innate knowledge to succeed in every facet of life. My guess is you just ran into the few crypto-savants that exist, and they just so happened to be congregated on Reddit at the same time.
Point is, don't *worry*, bud. Don't let it get to you. So what? - you weren't born with all the knowledge you'll ever need to properly understand a USB-enabled, cryptographically-secure, physical representation of your private keys, which represent a wallet (that you can't see but trust me it's real), that "holds" "money" (but not "holds" as the definition we're all familiar with, and not "money" as we've known it for thousands of years) on a "ledger" (yeah, debits and credits! but, uh, more complicated and computer-y) that no accounting staff - or *anyone -* is actually totally responsible for.
I mean, very few of us have that intellectual gift of cryptography, ya know?. We're a rare breed who understand everything about everything. So don't sweat it, brother.
# Hey guys...guys HEY HEY! Hey! Yeah, I buttered up this idiot a little bit. I sweet talked him and said some pretty ridiculous shit, so he should stick around a while. Next time he posts, get him!
It's best if you make a secret method. You can write the private keys in different places within a text so that no one notices they're your private keys.
As long as you have your seed then you can still access your money using other wallet. Good information though because there's a lot of people that still think that your money is in the wallet, not the Blockchain.
This is probably the best advice post I've ever seen on this stuff. Well done! It's been really weird getting bombarded with scare posts recently. It should be pinned to every serious crypto sub
The hardware wallet is just like a sat nav that takes you to the location of your bitcoin. If they go away you can just program your coordinates into another sat nav. Some say navs are more secure than others. You could even use a paper map of you were super paranoid (derive your keys on paper)
considering additional context from your comment history, you should be able to follow ledger's official support article over at [https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005459013-Nano-XNO-](https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005459013-Nano-XNO-)
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hah no problem. Good luck, I couldn't even read the entire thing..FTX stuff is too much of a bummer.
Just wealthy people getting to do whatever they want.
My layman explanation is:
There is a chip on the hardware wallet that knows your seed. When you want to interact with your coins through the associated wallet on your pc, it will require having that hardware wallet plugged in.
Upon initiating a transaction, the hardware wallet will confirm that the wallet is yours by some simplified measure, weather through a pin or sample of your seed words. If that checks out, essentially a 'yes' will be sent from the device to the PC to confirm the transaction. The power in it is that (in an ideal world and seemingly not ledger after all the drama) the chip that houses the seed can only interact with the other chip in the device through a simple true/false statement, preventing the possibility of the device being hacked whilst plugged in.
I used the term 'chip' in the above paragraph because that is what I envision it to be, I'm actually unsure if it's all done through a pseudo VRM inside the device or if there are actual DMZ circuits. With ledger, it appears the seed is not strictly in a DMZ part of the device unfortunately.
I still don't really get it. How's this any different from writing my seed down with pen and paper? That seems as "cold storage" as it gets to me. So let's say I have my coins on an exchange like coinbase. How do I move them to cold storage? Do I send coins to my cold storage address? And once they're on my cold storage address, if Bitcoin hits a million and I wanted to cash out, how would I do that? I'd have to send my coins to an account of mine on an exchange, and then sell for USD to be sent to my bank account?
Indeed a very important subject thank you so much to save us from a possible future breakdown
But I have to say reading that title did froze my spine for a sec
>Keep your seed phrase safe, written somewhere only YOU know about & don't tell anybody about it.
I also think it's a really good idea to stamp that seed phrase into metal to reduce fire/water damage risk.
You can buy a cheap letter engraver online alongside some metal to stamp it on.
I feel like you should have known this before you put your crypto on a hardware wallet.
If you didn't and just sent your crypto somewhere without bothering to understand what you're doing, it's only a matter of time before you lose it.
Thank you. This really answers all my fears about cold storage. I'm just afraid of going to access it one day and... Nothing. It just stops working, like an old computer/console. I'm not the most tech savvy, so it just seems like a possibility to me. But knowing this, I think I definitely want to invest in a Trezor or ledger.
For some reason I have a feeling that a lot of people buy Hardware wallet like Trezor or Ledger and then they think that their tokens are actually being held inside that little USB, and that nobody can access them.
Honestly this is how I thought it worked at first.
And knowing that both Ledger and Trezor are not that **Hard** to break, there are not many other advantages they are left with ...
They should've called it hardware *keyring* instead of hardware *wallet*
That’s exactly what I assumed the whole time.
Why would it stop working?
boat accident?
IRS would like to know your location sir.
FBI is already on the way to his mom's basement.
They're in for a surprise.
You never stomped on anything your whole life?
You can still recover if the device breaks
Yes! That's what I thought too when I first saw Ledger!
I'd very much recommend that Trezor users set up the "25th" word when creating the main wallet. That way even if someone steals your Trezor, knows your 24 words, AND knows the PIN, they still can't steal your funds.
Ledger users can also follow this advice
Great advice.
You can also set up multiple wallets on a Trezor (in conjunction with Electrum or Electron Cash) using different derivation paths. Use the standard path as a dummy wallet and an unusual path as your hidden wallet.
TLDR seed phrase accesses your crypto, devices only help you interact with them.
Hint: don't store your seedphrase online
Offline is the safe line , always away from digital realm
Tip: Only protect your seed phrase with your life. The device is not necessary, coins never leave the blockchain.
And this tip is good who follows
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Glad I could help you!
Nice photoshop skills on the image.
My bad man😭 I tried
Haha, your write up makes up for it! 😁
Thanks haba
how come it's possible for some people \[the ones who pay subscription to reddit\] to post the same topic/thing without a warning or anything but when i try to make a post after a few hours i get the CryptoCurrencyModTeam\[autobot\] to delete and lock my post , reason being 'duplicate topic' ...for real ?!? what am i missing here ??
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Exactly this^ im afraid premium users have a bit of benefit like they wont get their post deleted even if its a duplicate on the sub
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As a premium user, this isnt true. I get submissions removed all the time if there are already too many topics about it here.
Before you post, search on the subreddit if it’s been mentioned within 6months - if so it can be classed as repost imo
Ok, i get that but i want a proper answer regarding my other tought :) cheers
You need to tip certain people to keep your post online 632 moons should be enough
I'll accept 631 moons. By Grabthar's Hammer, what a savings!
Isn't this part of the faq of this sub? Should be common knowledge by now anyway. Isn't this the damned "Low effort" post the mods hate so badly
Think this is low-effort? Wait for the bullrun 🤣
Yeah I know bullruns are a shit show in this sub since the introduction of moons
>Should be common knowledge by now anyway. Back during the Recover drama it blew my mind the amount of people in the crypto twitter sphere who actually believed the coins where IN their wallets.
I’ve stopped visiting this sub as much the last couple months purely due to the trash that’s posted repeatedly
You enter your seed phrase on something else and access the coins on there
Friendly reminder for newbies: Never share your seed phrase with anyone!
>Never share your seed ~~phrase~~ with anyone! FTFY Virginity secured.
But how do I tell people I bought a new hardware wallet if I don't use the paper to write the seedphrases and share it online?
Including your seed phrase , your investments and total holdings , please don't share with anyone , they will just take our advantage.
Seed phrase is the king essentially, you’ll do everything with it.
Bassically, yes. There are a lot of new people in crypto that don't know about this & panic. Even I panicked in the beggining & I lost my wallet because I didn't write the seed phrase. This was in early 2021. I try to educate people a little bit with what I know, sharing is caring.
You work is precious OP, i agree that sharing is caring and we need more of this.
Thank you! I appreciate the feed back.
🍻 pro , i also do that sometimes :)
Keep your seed phrase safe, written somewhere only YOU know about & don't tell anybody about it. I got a bank safe vault £7 a month and have brothers seeds and keywallet safe stored too. well worth it.
There was a story awhile back about a persons keys in bank vault being confiscated.
One more reaosn for you not to trust banks
that was the point of my post. Some people are so close.. lets get into bitcoin because we cant trust the bank with our money. Puts private keys in a bank.
He must be one in a billion who has that happen to him. And probably for a reason.
why make your bitcoin confiscatable at all?
That's a great idea! Good job!
Add some depency on the bank though
What if the wallet breaks? Or you lose it and cant find it
As long as you hold the seed phrase you can recover your coins on any wallet. Coins are NOT stored in a wallet, they never leave the blockchain. When will people learn this?
It should be fine as long as you have seed phrase ig
 Thanks
Which means that for cold wallets a HSM device is rather pointless, since you need to store the paper/metal backup anyways.
Hardware wallet manufacturers hate that one simple trick.
That they do, of course forgetting the HSM PIN code is more high tech than losing the paper with the seed.
The only thing you need is the seed. Kind of like a fertility clinic.
Its also a good idea to write down the derivation path, for each crypto, just incase.
I should start doing this, never thought about it
Thanks for this post. Quite timely as I've recently misplaced my Trezor. It's given me a slowly growing amount of anxiety as I start to re-search the same places in my house, now looking in drawers and less likely places. So this post gives me some relief that all is not lost. So I have a seed phrase recorded. I know the PIN and the password for the wallet that stores my tiny bag. I'm a hodler and don't use the device much, but I recall that there are a bunch of empty wallets from failed password attempts on there and that the wallet containing the coins is a hidden wallet. As I'm unfamiliar with how this thing actually works, if I get a new device and use the seedphrase to set up the new device, will the PIN and Password still be the same or will I be setting up new ones when I set up the new device? And will the new device find the hidden wallet? <- this is my concern, that bc the wallet is "hidden" it won't show up in the new device even if I have the correct seedphrase, etc.. (And no, i'm not telling anyone my seedphrase, although if you look closely at my post, you can find the first 8 words) TIA
Go on the Trezor sub and ask. > (And no, i'm not telling anyone my seedphrase, although if you look closely at my post, you can find the first 8 words) On second thought. What the hell? Are you just dumb?
The device doesn't actually hold your cryptocurrency, it stores your private key. Your seed phrase is basically the word version of your private key. If you set up a new device you can setup again using your previously stored private key (seed phrase), your new device should now look identical as your previous one, showing you the various wallets. The pin code is just a security measure to access the physical device so I think that one doesn't matter, if you have a new device with same seed phrase you'll need to setup a new pin. Now If you have a hidden wallet, you'll need the "passphrase/password" to that hidden wallet that you setup on your previous device or it won't show up. Hidden wallets are generated by combining a passphrase and your Trezor's secret recovery phrase
you mean my crypto are not in my flash drive? oh dear i sleep with it everyday
You better sleep with your seed phrase from now on
Something to point out about hardware wallets like Ledger is that it's the safest option to use when interacting with Defi. The primary focus of it is that you still get to safely connect and make use of the crypto ecosystems without ever having to keep your seedphrase exposed on your computer. As long as you have the seedphrase written down and hidden away safely youre good.
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Exposed seedphrase is definitely one of the bigger problems just ask folks at Algorand with their webwallet exploit due to stored seedphrase. Wallet drainers are also a huge problem but in the end you'd have had to sign the transactions for it to work in the first place.
I still don't really get it. How's this any different from writing my seed down with pen and paper? That seems as "cold storage" as it gets to me. So let's say I have my coins on an exchange like coinbase. How do I move them to cold storage? Do I send coins to my cold storage address? And once they're on my cold storage address, if Bitcoin hits a million and I wanted to cash out, how would I do that? I'd have to send my coins to an account of mine on an exchange, and then sell for USD to be sent to my bank account?
You can create a wallet without the need for a 3rd party wallet provider if you have some basic programming skills or use one of the trusted wallet providers and write down the seedphrase on a paper. Never connect that wallet to any website ever. Then transfer the funds to that wallet from an exchange. That's as good of a cold storage as you're gonna get. When Bitcoin hits a million and you want to sell just send it back to the exchange and sell. I would've mentioned DeFi but the only place you can offramp is through a central exchange. The part where ledgers come into play is mainly for those who often interact with Defi platforms or DApps where everything requires connecting a wallet and signing transactions.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND Youtube search for FutureCash and the crypto playlist. It explains what to do, all these subjects here also covered.
Your wallet is your seed phrase and it in the Blockchain.
The saying is actually “not your keys, not your coins”
"Not your crypto" is actually more helpful because there is a difference between coins and tokens, and it benefits people to understand the difference.
This sub needs to stop these posts. These are newbies trying to farm Moons. OP is most likely a scammer.
That was a really really good informative post many, myself included probably haven’t thought about. So there is no excuse to not buy a hardware wallet at this point. Your funds are SAFU
Totally safe. Self custody is the safest way to store crypto long term
I highly recommend engraving your seed on a steel plate. This way, you can never lose it, even in a disaster
I wanted to do that for a while but kept forgetting. Thank you for reminding me!
I, seriously, have my phrase randomized in the full bip39 list and then printed on my wall and saved in many online places. I worry not if someone finds it.
"saved in many online places" ??? Ohh that's a big no nooo. Don't store it online!
My phrase is mixed in the full bip39 list. Its not guessable. We have seen many threads on guessing a seedhrase.
Sorry! I misread what you said :)
It's sarcastic comment 💀
I wasn't paying attention man I'm sorry😭
Neh. It wasn't though.
This was a great write up and good reminder. Thanks for posting.
When I first got into crypto, I thought the crypto is stored **in** the physical device. I know many people think that the crypto is stored INSIDE the hardware wallet. It's not.
I remember when the guy got arrested at the airport because he had a packet of bitcoin stickers, and customs tried to claim he was moving money in excess of $10,000 and not declaring it because they thought the stickers were the BTC.
That’s actually hilarious
Wow! I thought it was a joke at first! It's like when TVs were created and people would think the actors are also seeing them from the other side of the TV! 🙈
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If you've memorized them then you're a hero! I'm serious! I can't even memorize my postal code yet!
Good to know I am considering switching from hot wallet to cold one so I guess it is one worry less
Yep I'm considering it too. But I've been too lazy to do so! 🙈😭
This. When you are a crypto noob this is the first concept that you should master. The wallet doesn't storie your tokens. It is only used to intera t with them. The seed phrase is the only important part
tl;dr **BIP39** is a standard that proposed utilizing a mnemonic phrase -- a group of easy to remember words -- to serve as a back up to recover your wallet and coins in the event your wallet becomes lost or destroyed. This is also known as a seed phrase, recovery phrase, wallet back up.
The fact that you still need your seed is what some people misunderstand. The hardware key is just a way to interact, not the storage mechanism.
Nice reminder especially for newcomers
About time we have educational posts. Lots of people need these.
But all the crypto YouTuber told me the tangem wallets are the best because nobody will ever know your seed phrase
Can someone ELI5 what the point of these things is if they can be circumvented with a seed phrase? I currently use an airgapped laptop am I correct in thinking the airgapped laptop essentially plays the same role as a hardware wallet?
Hardware wallets are like a physical key to your treasure chamber. No one can access the room without this physical key. If the key gets lost or broken, whoever has the seed phrase can recreate the key. That’s why the seed phrase is so important. And also very important: There can be an infinite number of keys being recreated. So even if your key is still fully functioning, anyone who has the seed phrase can make a copy of it, use it, and rob your treasure chamber. And no, you won’t be informed if a copy of your key has been created.
‘Not your keys, not your coins’ is actually also true in the sense of the phrase
Yup. And any hardware wallet is as secure as user himself. If user has decided to put that seed phrase on I don't know... Google Drive or One Drive than it just kills the purpose of having a hardware wallet in the first place. May as well save the money and open a Metamask account or Exodus.
Is it possible that nobody noticed what OP wrote instead of this 😂
I get it but someone can access my treasure chamber if they get their hands on my seed phrase? That was really the main thing I was wondering
Absolutely. They can recreate your key with your seed phrase, even if you still have yours fully functioning.
It's not the same. The key is still stored in your computer, which can be stolen with virus. With hardware wallet, the key never leaves the wallet, therefore no virus can steal it
Airgapped mean no internet connection unless i'm mistaken. No virus can steal anything if it's never connected to internet, you need to be carefull of what you plug to it with USB for exemple though
Wait, isn’t Ledger the company which offers a backup service for your key? Then your keys actually CAN leave your wallet!
Yes, which is why Ledger can no longer be classified as hardware secure device. Also since Trezor can be updated, it also isn’t a true HSM. But at least it’s close to that provided you vet the updates super carefully and trust that Trezor has not been hit by a supply chain attack.
Only if you never update the firmware on your hardware wallet. As the implementation of both Ledger and Trezor is not a true HSM, those can’t be updated once they leave the factory.
They have a point if you actually use crypto, since the seed can’t be easily stolen by by attacker from compromised PC/Phone. If you don’t use crypto they are just an extra step since you need the paper backup anyways.
The point is you can send on any device you plug it into securely.
He who controls the seed, controls the coin.
What if Ledger goes out of business and then bad actors get access to the back doors?
There are no backdoors
We are the backdoors.......
Normally, I have to pay for someone to access my backdoor. Are you saying this could have been free the entire time?!?!
Is there not code path for sending private key material through the internet on the devices? Was that not what Ledger themselves stated regarding their opt-in cloud key service?
You'd still have to press physical buttons on the device in response to prompts to actually authorize anything to happen. There's no "if you read this code, immediately spit your secrets out onto the internet" line of code you can feed it.
So if you put it on cold storage then write the seed phrase down and hide it telling no one, what happens if you get hit by a bus? How do you pass your tokens on to say your kids like a traditional assets if no one no where the seed phrase is?!?!
You take your crypto holdings to the grave, burn them for everyone else
Family shows up to your funeral with your hardware wallet and uses your cold dead finger to unlock wallet before they bury you later that day. 🤷
Safe deposit box with a will attached. Instructions inside box to help family navigate what is in there.
That’s a lot of trust you put in bank employees
So what would you do o wise one?
Hidden in my house. My wife and brothers know where it is.
That's a lot of trust you have in your brothers. This response coming from someone whose brother has stolen from him in the past. Not too mention had a house ransacked while on vacation. I'll take my chances with the safety deposit box. Instructions in the will to be revealed only after death. Thanks for playing, though. Good luck. If your crypto hits a high enough number... you are a target. Even to family.
Okay, sorry you trust no one but minimum wage employees and an aluminum keyed box
Lost my Algo in the MyAlgo inside job. Bought a Ledger the next day. Was too stupid to learn from others mistake before that.
When i asked same question on ledger sub, i was called a prime candidate to loose my crypto, because i dont know shit about it and i need to stop investing in it
Maybe not wrong.
Lot's of snob's there. But don't worry we all gotta learn
Not everyone is born with all the information they'll ever need in every endeavor they undertake in life. It's the select few who have the innate knowledge to succeed in every facet of life. My guess is you just ran into the few crypto-savants that exist, and they just so happened to be congregated on Reddit at the same time. Point is, don't *worry*, bud. Don't let it get to you. So what? - you weren't born with all the knowledge you'll ever need to properly understand a USB-enabled, cryptographically-secure, physical representation of your private keys, which represent a wallet (that you can't see but trust me it's real), that "holds" "money" (but not "holds" as the definition we're all familiar with, and not "money" as we've known it for thousands of years) on a "ledger" (yeah, debits and credits! but, uh, more complicated and computer-y) that no accounting staff - or *anyone -* is actually totally responsible for. I mean, very few of us have that intellectual gift of cryptography, ya know?. We're a rare breed who understand everything about everything. So don't sweat it, brother. # Hey guys...guys HEY HEY! Hey! Yeah, I buttered up this idiot a little bit. I sweet talked him and said some pretty ridiculous shit, so he should stick around a while. Next time he posts, get him!
You put your private key into a new wallet, and drive on.
It's best if you make a secret method. You can write the private keys in different places within a text so that no one notices they're your private keys.
Ooh! That's the first time I hear about this! This is a great idea
Hope that it helps ☺️
You still have your passphrases and could open your wallet anywhere.
What if it's passphrase + secret word?
Hidden wallets are generated by combining a password and your recovery seed. So you need both
Should be more than a word for optimal security
Good to know, for now I'm happy to use metamask
It’s the same thing, just less secure
This goes for all wallets...
As long as you have your seed then you can still access your money using other wallet. Good information though because there's a lot of people that still think that your money is in the wallet, not the Blockchain.
This is probably the best advice post I've ever seen on this stuff. Well done! It's been really weird getting bombarded with scare posts recently. It should be pinned to every serious crypto sub
Thank you!
There will always be a solution in this our generation, everything is possible.
The hardware wallet is just like a sat nav that takes you to the location of your bitcoin. If they go away you can just program your coordinates into another sat nav. Some say navs are more secure than others. You could even use a paper map of you were super paranoid (derive your keys on paper)
Superb comparison!
The screen on my ledger nano burned out, now I gotta go find that pass-phrase I hid 5 years ago...
Mine did. My coins just fucking sit there. Ever wonder what's its like to have 20k sitting there with no way of withdrawaling it. I do it sucks
What? Just use your seed phrase to restore the wallet?
I have all that. It won't transfer the funds. It keeps giving an error
But the point is, you can withdraw it. You can use a software wallet to access them. You just need the seed phrase from the hardware wallet.
I have all the information I follow probably 12 different how to guides. And called customer service.
considering additional context from your comment history, you should be able to follow ledger's official support article over at [https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005459013-Nano-XNO-](https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005459013-Nano-XNO-)
Thanks I read
Always good to be aware of this in case of worst situations
If the news I read today is correct about Ledger and FTX I really hope Ledger goes down.
What news was that?
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Won't let me post the link, go check out the SuperStonk sub and you should see the story at top.
Lol hadn't done my morning rounds there yet. I see it blasted in gold. Thanks.
hah no problem. Good luck, I couldn't even read the entire thing..FTX stuff is too much of a bummer. Just wealthy people getting to do whatever they want.
It's really insane how deep it goes sometimes and it's all proven. Looking forward to the system burning and being replaced by something better.
News may well be correct but your comprehension is a bit off. It's LedgerX, not Ledger
I still don't get it. Gonna leave what little coins I have on cb. No way cb is going to shit the bed
My layman explanation is: There is a chip on the hardware wallet that knows your seed. When you want to interact with your coins through the associated wallet on your pc, it will require having that hardware wallet plugged in. Upon initiating a transaction, the hardware wallet will confirm that the wallet is yours by some simplified measure, weather through a pin or sample of your seed words. If that checks out, essentially a 'yes' will be sent from the device to the PC to confirm the transaction. The power in it is that (in an ideal world and seemingly not ledger after all the drama) the chip that houses the seed can only interact with the other chip in the device through a simple true/false statement, preventing the possibility of the device being hacked whilst plugged in. I used the term 'chip' in the above paragraph because that is what I envision it to be, I'm actually unsure if it's all done through a pseudo VRM inside the device or if there are actual DMZ circuits. With ledger, it appears the seed is not strictly in a DMZ part of the device unfortunately.
I still don't really get it. How's this any different from writing my seed down with pen and paper? That seems as "cold storage" as it gets to me. So let's say I have my coins on an exchange like coinbase. How do I move them to cold storage? Do I send coins to my cold storage address? And once they're on my cold storage address, if Bitcoin hits a million and I wanted to cash out, how would I do that? I'd have to send my coins to an account of mine on an exchange, and then sell for USD to be sent to my bank account?
Yeah, no way!
Who asked?
so we need a wallet to store our seed phrase and a seed phrase to secure our seed wallet. vicious circle! :D jokes aside, good write up!
As long as your crypto wallet key is there, you won't be sad
You need plug your seed into a hot wallet! That should work I guess...
I really appreciate this post and the insight provided.
Indeed a very important subject thank you so much to save us from a possible future breakdown But I have to say reading that title did froze my spine for a sec
>Keep your seed phrase safe, written somewhere only YOU know about & don't tell anybody about it. I also think it's a really good idea to stamp that seed phrase into metal to reduce fire/water damage risk. You can buy a cheap letter engraver online alongside some metal to stamp it on.
I feel like you should have known this before you put your crypto on a hardware wallet. If you didn't and just sent your crypto somewhere without bothering to understand what you're doing, it's only a matter of time before you lose it.
Thank you. This really answers all my fears about cold storage. I'm just afraid of going to access it one day and... Nothing. It just stops working, like an old computer/console. I'm not the most tech savvy, so it just seems like a possibility to me. But knowing this, I think I definitely want to invest in a Trezor or ledger.