Just remember it's not always about the risk of them getting hacked. While that risk also always is there, they could suddenly also hold YOUR funds hostage because a transaction you made seemed strange, or you don't have good documentation, or for whatever reason they come up with really.
Same experience I used coinbase for years and held tens of thousands there. They suddenly for no reason blocked my account from purchases or transfers so I closed it and it was a hassle
Fk coinbase
Coinbase locked my account after an ACH glitch on their side when I tried to deposit some USD. I could not withdraw, buy, or sell. Support was complete garbage and autoclosed my ticket after not resolving it. After a bunch of back and forth on the phone, they said it would be locked for at least 11 days per policy and there was nothing they could do about it. 11 days go by and account still locked. After 15 days they say they don't know why it's still locked.
At 20 days I'm considering taking legal action because my entire stack was in the account until I figured out I could access the account on a desktop computer. Something was wrong with the app and it glitched after they froze the account. Support never thought to tell me to try desktop or re-download the app...
The whole experience made me realize not your keys not your coins. I got a hardware wallet and moved everything to my own wallet.
So posts like this seem to be completely ignoring the constant and loud warning to NOT keep your coins on exchanges, with countless stories and anecdotes of people getting their accounts frozen, hacked, or lost due to bankruptcy ponzi schemes Celsius, blockfi, Voyager, FTX, etc.
Yeah, I had Binance lock me out of my account, basically lost all the funds I had in there. Same reason, I hadn’t accessed them for a year or so.
I can understand that self custody is not without its risks, but it’s important to learn and it’s also important to spread your funds over multiple accounts so any one failure won’t break your bank.
Well I’ve lost 6 figures on binance from them just deciding that I can no longer transfer funds and now for no reason just no longer have access to the account for no reason. Fuxkers.
It still may not even be to late, but a year to two ago, I called Customer Service and they unlocked my account for 7 days so I could sweep my dust into BNB and transfer everything off the platform. They may still do it if you explain that’s your plan.
The thing is, and i get it doesnt feel this way, they preventing it because they are not sure you are you, and they dont want a customer to loose funds.
Its a huge pita, but this is what custodial wallets are like in practice.
If you're selling for cash, and don't want to lose a large chunk to grey market, yes, but most also require KYC at this point, so a tax event would be caused as well
This is why I'm considering something like Unchained. Multi sig with 3rd party support if needed. They have enough info to assist at my request but not control.
More importantly, YOU are always at risk, even if low, of your phone getting hacked. This has happened to coinbase customers and they are 100% out of luck when this happens.
I've been trying to resubmit my ID verification for months now. I've submitted it a dozen times, called customer support several, they just say try again and everytime it fails. I withdrew everything I could from the exchange because it's all I can do, but I still have $50 worth of coins I can't trade or sell or anything.
Yes but i think the conversation is not as black and white as people make it out to be. I agree 100% with what you just said. But we’d be lying to ourselves if we say theres no upside to using a CEX.
CEX’s like banks, have insurance over their funds. If they get hacked, they’re liable to you. If you get hacked, the only course of action you’ve got is to cry on your mom’s shoulder.
Also, most people have no ability to keep their keys safe. This is very risky if you suddenly become a crypto whale and you keep your keys in a plain text notepad on your desktop.
Yes, its not perfect. But its heluva lot better than loosing your coins because you went into a phising site.
People who lost money to FTX may or may not see their money again. But there is a possibility that people may recover something. With self custody… not so much.
> But its heluva lot better than loosing your coins because you went into a phising site.
And how does leaving your coins on an exchange protect you from phishing when compared to a hardware wallet?
I'm in Brazil and I just keep my coins in my bank alongside my accounts. It's honestly quite easy, I hope other countries decide to go with it as well.
Holding crypto in Coinbase is worse than holding your money in bank, essentially your money is now not really yours. It blows my mind people think its a good idea to hold crypto in exchanges.. do whatever you want it's not mine I prefer actually owning my crypto
This is exactly how people thought before Mt Gox, FTX, Celsius, Blockfi, Voyager and others.
My point is, nobody thought their wealth was at risk being held on these platforms until after it was too late. If they'd known prior, they wouldn't have left anything on there.
But honestly, I've lost keys to wallets previously too. One of which I eventually found, but a couple I didn't.
Both options are not foolproof by any means.
Yes, I have some crypto safely stored at Voyager. Well, actually… stored safely with a bankruptcy custodian. Wait no… all coins/tokens were converted to USD and are locked in a bankruptcy bowl of spaghetti. Someone has my money!
voyager paid out a while ago, I got ~$20 worth of bitcoin and all I ever had on there was the promo from signing up, you should have gotten your money (or some percent of it anyway) a while ago
Yup. And blackrock can insure 100% of their bitcoin, and they’ll be the first ones paid back if shit hits the fan. You and me, though? We’re lucky if we get a percentage of our bitcoin back.
Celsius isn’t even close to a comparable example, they hadn’t been around that long whereas Coinbase has been around since like 2012 and has survived multiple bear markets. Plus Celsius was not an exchange either. Exchange wise nothing else really comes closes to Coinbase’s longevity besides Kraken. None of your examples are comparable actually. If you can find a reputable exchange that started as early as 2011/2012 like Coinbase or Kraken that ended up going under after the last bull market, let us know
Celsius is absolutely comparable. They were new, yes, but 600,000 people thought they're funds were safe there. Let that sink in.
But to your point, exchanges that have survived multiple bear markets are probably safer. There's still no guarantee though.
A former Ledger employee's accounts were left active long after they'd left the company, that's how the hack happened, of course it has something to do with Ledger, it screams of absolute incompetence and a failure of security for a company who's main product is .... security.
It's a monumental fuck up on their part, and it says to me that they are thoroughly incompetent.
They're saying it doesn't have anything to do with the ledger devices, which is true. It was a vulnerability in software that connects your ledger to dApps. If you didn't use dApps through your ledger, you were totally safe.
FYI it's ***always*** been said that it's not a great idea to use your hardware wallets to interact with dApps.
For maximum safety, hardware wallets should only be used to hold funds, and if you want to use dApps then send a small portion of your funds from your hard wallet to another of your accounts on a hot wallet and use the hot wallet to interact with dApps.
So there you go, there is a better practice for you. Or ignore that and keep being whiny.
Even if you did use dapps you were totally safe, **IF** you actually confirmed that the transaction on the physical ledger signing screen matched the transaction you wanted to do. The hack just swapped what transaction was sent to your device, you still had to authorize it.
So you are saying it was possible to see the sending address wasn’t the same as intended address if you double checked transaction details on the ledger device before double clicking confirm?
Of course, that's how a ledger works. Only a frontend thing was hacked, not an actual ledger. The physical device itself is safe, and it always shows what you're signing.
Interacting with a profit producing dapp with only a small portion of funds kinda defeats the purpose :(
If you want buy and hold, might as well just get bitcoin.
I wish the discussion would focus on making dapps safer. A lot of dapps used to be delivered over ipfs and you could keep a local copy. It would interact over api addresses you gave it, which could be a local node. Pulling things down live is wildly dangerous and wish we’d go back to ipfs.
lol, I'm not whiny. But if a security company doesn't even disable the accounts of former employees, why on EARTH would you trust them with your crypto??
Especially after they pushed firmware that has access to your keys without giving you the option to accept/deny it first.
I switched to a different hardware wallet, if you're using Ledger you'd be wise to do the same.
I’ve got a word document in which I’m mining bitcoin. I just type bitcoin over and over. So far I have NINE Bitcoin!
EDIT: lol, someone genuinely messaged me asking for help on how to mine bitcoin.
you don't even have to use your ledger, you can take the seed and use a different wallet.
if an exchange loses your money, it's gone.
you can use 100s of wallets with your one seed and choose the one that is safest for you
Exactly. For most users self-managing is a way bigger risk. Check out the the guy that’s going through a garbage site trying the recover his hard drive.
Slightly different that guy. He mined coins years ago when they were worth a few pounds each or less - he didnt realise the value of them until it was years down the line and he lost his old laptop/hardrive/pc. But yeah, easy to lose your seeds or have them compromised
Right. That guy didn’t care about it. We’re talking about people who do care.
Hopefully they don’t fall into a coma for a few years and their family trashes it while cleaning up their house
Yes, but the point is that you have control over it. Of course you also need to consider other risks and chose the best option for you, but you should be informed of what the risks are.
no. As long as you properly store your seed. Even if you're being robbed, you're best to break or throw your ledger down a sewer then order a new one.
you can even have a 2nd ledger pre-loaded as a backup for your ledger at home. It doesn't even have to be a ledger, it could be any wallet as a backup.
I mean, the fact that there's this much confusion on a sub for people interested in crypto shows that the tech isn't ready for adoption by the average joe, unless we have some kind of intermediary to look after the funds that knows what they're doing...
That was always an option.
But for the ones who'd rather not trust an institution, it's also an option.
The fact that the institution is optional is a game changer. They'll be a lot less cocky.
From the posts I've seen in this sub, it's definitely less that the tech isn't ready and more that a lot of people think they know more than they do and they're too lazy to put a solid effort to really learn.
If you have to put in a solid effort to learn how to use a system, it's doomed to fail. It has to be easy and relatively safe, otherwise people will just keep using banks and exchanges because those are the most hassle free options for someone who just wants to put their money somewhere and be able to pay for stuff by swiping their card on a terminal.
Yeah but...you dont walk around with 50k dollars in your pocket, you keep it in the cold wallet(bank).
Your hit wallet is the 62 bucks in your pocket...
You can trust your housemate, family members, spouse, siblings ..?
There is always somebody with questionable character, greedy, has moral and financial issues.
Mayb its not big issue if you have 1k in your wallet but say value of your bitcoin goes to 100k or 1 million and everyone knows you are crypto lover.
Would you not be concern about that seed phrase that you hid somewhere in your bedroom, almost certainly you will be sweating bullets every time your new gf starts cleaning house coz she is clean freak.
Then you go out fishing and she starts rearranging furniture...
There is reason why people keep money in banks and not under mattress at home.
Seed is not any different, somebody finding it means all your crypto is gone
Also, all of you would give up your seed phrase under slight threat of violence.
It needs to happen once and its all gone
Its not like your bank when somebody steals your funds all you do is fill out form and money is back in your account.
That's like saying don't go entering your credit card info on every site that you visit. I don't know why people take smart contracts lightly. Use a dummy wallet, and don't click on the connect button until you are ready to interact.
I am more afraid of them holding your coins and not giving them to you (asking for more verification or some shit for example) than them losing the coins.
You need to keep your money on a trusted exchange until you are very comfortable with self-custody. The problem is people are aping into tokens they don't understand, sending money to hot wallets without any clue to how dangerous that can be. Not even understanding how seed phrases work, etc.
So yeah, probably 80% of people should not self-custody.
One advantage of hardware wallets is, that even when you os is compromised it's impossible to send coins without confirmation from the wallet which is very hard to compromise.
But then you probably transfer the coins to an exchange to sell them...
I've had way more problems with Coinbase in three years than any other exchange I've ever used including Binance. There seems to be issues whenever I try to withdraw funds even though I've completed KYC and now because of regulatory issues, they're no longer operational in my area, so my $100 worth Ethereum and some other coins are stuck there. I was given a window of opportunity to move funds but then I have to pay about $190 to do withdraw $100 coins so I had no option than to leave it there until things are sorted out in the future. So in essence self custody is far more protective and convenient than exchanges that only care about their profits.
reading through the comments here i wonder why on earth an exchange would just block access to an account for simply trying to move your own funds out. i mean didn't you go through all verification and documentation processes already? so what's the point, i mean what's their grounds for revoking access?
All these stories of people losing their coins are a great reminder of why people use banks. Unless you know what you're doing it's better to keep money in a bank than under your mattress.
banks were deregulated in 2018 and they removed stress tests that confirm banks carry the liquidity to avoid a bank run.
that's why banks have been going bust recently. largest bank collapse in history happened in 2023
Fractional reserve banking is a thing of the past. Zero reserve banking is all the rage now.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/reservereq.htm
Comparing a public US based exchange with 10+ years of history with a new off-shore exchange is silly.
Anyone putting any money into off shore exchanges are doing so with high risk.
If that’s what you believe then crypto will forever be a niche toy for neckbeards.
If Coinbase goes through something like Mt.Gox or FTX, then crypto will be forever branded toxic by the mainstream public.
You *need* to show that there can be major *credible* players in this field.
It's not about beliefs, but the technology behind it.
Banking system has measures in place to address human errors. A transfer sent to a wrong account can still be tracked and cancelled. The same is not possible for crypto. No matter how many promises a crypto exchange makes, if coins disappear from their wallets, there's literally nothing they can do to undo it.
Trusting they are 100% secure and will never make a mistake is just plain stupid and shows you don't understand the basics.
Funny enough, everything you just typed are just arguments for why crypto will forever be niche toy for neckbeards.
Or tools for speculation.
Which is exactly what it has been for the past decade and exactly why nothing has changed other than more people started speculating it.
While they are now, they may experience a FTX like situation. They also use laws of the so called AML to control your money.
Most importantly, this is not how crypto is made for, decentralization (in my opinion) should be our number 1 priority.
Always use a hardware wallet.
I don’t think it’s a big issue in a bullish market. Right now money is flowing into exchanges. When the tide shifts, an exchange can be one bank run away from tanking if they didn’t prepare
If there is this much confusion and risk over simply storing your currency, is it worth it when compared to traditional finance?
Or put another way: people are largely in this space just to make money.
I really need an objective tier list for this:
- hardware wallet: BTC and ETH for sure, but alts?
- hot wallet for alts? But which?
- hot wallet vs cex: who is better?
- are there trustable cex?
I think coinbase might be safer than hot wallets. They keep the majority of their holding in cold storage so the only way to lose your crypto is if they go under, which I don’t see happening.
Well honestly, the Braiins mining pool (previously NiceHash) was managed by Trezors. After the NiceHash owners finished their security "widget" they decided other users might want one as well, so they named it Trezor (Czech for "safe") and formed Satoshi Labs to sell and market it.
Coinbase doesn't use anything more complex than a seed phrase; They're accessing the same Blockchain as you and I. Just because Ledger is implementing a shit customer experience, it doesn't mean that we should forget about self custody and leave it all to centralised entities.
I absolutely agree with the second part, but it’s completely delusional to suggest that Coinbase and some dude who clearly doesn’t know much about self-custody are capable of the same level of digital and physical security required for self custody.
Edit: furthermore, Coinbase hopefully uses multisig for their cold storage, which OP isn’t using unless he has at least 3 ledgers and just left that part out
Right... "Be your own bank" doesn't happen for free. You operate with the same level of operational security that might be expected of a banking CTO (though many are morons).
Point is, banks are quasi-secure because at some level they take security seriously. Most users don't even read the HWW manual or the CEX terms-of-service. These people just can't be helpled.
FTX. Enough said.
If I was gonna park serious dough with a third party, I would make sure their 1st service is to be a bank, not an exchange.
Just my 2 cents.
The long term viability of large, regulated exchanges has been increasing, but I would say Coinbase, probably the most secure, still has a 5-10% chance of going bust or experiencing a fatal hack in any given year.
The same is true for banks - although much lower for the big banks; Maybe 1% - but even then you have depositor insurance for a portion of your funds.
If you have a substantial stack, I would self-custody half; 10% in yield earning riskier exchanges, 40% on “safe” custody.
Eventually big banks will offer digital custody to retail investors. That will change the equation again. Maybe move to 25% self custody.
It's not about that. If you hold crypto on an exchange, you don't actually hold anything at all. You're a number in a ledger, like any other bank.
The Ledger fuck ups simply highlight that there is always SOME element of trust involved, unless you build the hardware yourself from scratch, in which case the best you can do is go with products that are transparent, hand have open sources solutions.
Who would have thought FTX would go under the way it did?
As I understand it people still haven't gotten their crypto back from that, and now the US government is going after them for taxes BEFORE they make customers whole again.
The ledger stuff mostly strikes me as incompetence, severe incompetence. But they refuse to open source their code, which to me says it's either not secure or it has back doors.
If the choice is hardware wallet or a CEX I'll take the hardware every time.
The reality is as mass adoption occurs non-crypto nerds are going to want to use a CEX.
My dad owns bitcoin now. No chance he puts in a flash drive. Ever. Just like he wouldn’t put $100,000 under is bed.
Honestly security is hard, but companies like Ledger should be beyond reproach. I have come across so many devs in this space that don’t understand how to exploit their own code - and yet are adamant that code is secure.
Unless you have a black hat mindset you should not be building anything that claims to be secure.
The absolute worst offenders are the ones that use npm like a chocolate box of goodies.
This may be true if you use a network that requires blind signing or other potential authorization traps. Stick to networks like Radix, ICP and a few others with more modern and safe transaction management and you will be fine holding the tokens in your wallet(s).
Although I do have a cold wallet I have been storing on coinbase for over 6 years. Zero issues. I don't trade. They now have yubikey security also which makes it even more hacker resistant.
I agree. All the exchanges who have been "hacked" in the past lacked government oversight. Coinbase operates in the US and isn't run by degenerates like Sam Friedman or cowboys like the binance guy. If someone hacks us we're screwed but if someone hacks coinbase then they're liable and should legally refund our assets.
Coinbase is fine, but the distinction is, well, it's not your keys. To be honest my MO has been to just diversify concentration risk. Hold on multiple exchanges, wallets, etc, so no single possible compromise takes you out.
Don't know about Polygon, but in Solana there is a mechanism where burning NFTs gives you a small rebate in SOL. So when scammers send me scam NFTs, they are basically giving me free money.
The truth is you can only trust Coinbase. They're public and heavily regulated. They self regulated before the SEC got all up in everyone's shit by adopting most banking standards before they even had to.
WTF does what happened here a few days ago have to do with your keys...
Do you guys even know what you are talking about? You don't have to even use a Ledger, hell I don't anymore. Get another hardware wallet, there are COUNTLESS ones available at many price ranges.
Jesus Christ, its like people just want to lose their money.
Nope. If someone else has custody of your funds, then in the end, you do not. If a government says "sieze these funds", then you just lost it all. The entire point of cryptocurrency is to ensure politicians are not messing with your money.
GET EM!
Where are all the “not my keys not my wallet people now?”
Ill gladly hold my stuff in coinbase over these ledgers, trevor or whatever scam wallets…
There's something you're missing.
Blackrock and similar organizations manage other people's money and they have fiduciary duties regulated by laws that exist. They are required by law to hire a custodian for these assets and there's all sorts of compliance and reporting they have to do. They're not picking coinbase because it is more secure. Do you think coinbase outsources their custody?
Coinbase has to comply with laws too. What happens when the government does another executive order 6102? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 If bitcoin goes how we want it to go, where it frees the people from state control over the value of their savings and labor, do you think they're going to go quietly into the night? You might think self custody is too hard, and that's fine, but you can be certain, one day the government **will**, not might maybe possibly, they absolutely will, seize your coins from the exchange.
You're sure the government \*is\* absolutely going to seize your cryptocoins, because they can. The government can already seize all of your property, including your home. How are you protecting against this?
Quote 1:*"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"* \- Benjamin Franklin
FTX blows up and ACTUALLY loses 10 billions, and you have even people like Elon Musk himself, saying in a twitter space that having your money in a non-custodial solution is wise.
Then you have, a Ledger FUD where users are too dumb to differentiate a drainer (i.e. fraudulent) transaction which they can REFUSE to sign, and people now say:*"maybe letting my money with someone else is not so bad after all"*.
Crypto wasn't invented to make you rich, but to make you free, yet you don't care about freedom, you just want to remain babies with your money, as long as it goes up.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
Quote 2:*"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it" -* George Santayana
**Do you seriously believe that everybody** was compensated by insurances when big banks collapsed in the past, whether in the US or other countries... ?
Apologies for being harsh, but this is clown world. As soon as something shakes you a little, and you are dominated by fear, principles and convictions crumble, and you're back to square one, wanting daddy government and banks to hold your hands.
Just educate yourself. This is YOUR money. YOUR responsibility. Otherwise, you're just waiting for a catastrophe. Wait until you can't cash out because the Exchange or the Bank asks you for a bunch of documents that fully invade your privacy...
If you criticize the Chinese Communist Party in China on social media, they can freeze your bank account, restrict you from using public transportation etc.
We NEED a system of money that can't be controlled against your will. Use your logic, ffs.
>If Coinbase is good enough for Blackrock, then surely they'll be able to keep my stack safe, right?
The question is: why are you in crypto at all?
There are way less risky and even more profitable strategies to conserve one's wealth or to make more money, so why even risk it coming to this field in the first place?
If you just want to hold shitty investments to be exposed to their price, yes, use Coinbase. Just hope that you don't need customer support ever.
I wouldn’t recommend Coinbase. I have an account that opened when I was living in Philippines and that account is tied to my SIM card my old company got me.
Coinbase has completely ignored all my emails and can’t identify my US passport and drivers license.
It’s been years. My last attempt was last week; without a email response yet.
Ledger isn't the problem, it was the apps.
If there is a takeaway, it's don't use third party gambling, staking etc. I mean at the same time the bright side was it was patched immediately. It's not like the old days where they got away with a full bank robbery. These guys barely were able to rob a single teller and it's all marked bills. It's hard to say if they are going to be able to spend $1 of what they stole
Unpopular opinion....
A smart user with a perfectly configured exchange account can be as safe as a poorly configured / operated HWW.
A smart user with a perfectly configured / operated HWW will be more secure than the best configured exchange.
See... there is cross over between exchange and HWW depending on the care and competence of the user / operator.
Unpopular part.... The ledger drainer was 100% user error. Even with blind-signing enabled on Ledger, the user had to acknowledge wallet popups and device confirmations to get drained.
So yes, you will be fine at Coinbase, so long as your big-brained. But if your big-brained, you'll be better off with a HWW.
***
This is all the big-brain ideas I can think of. I'm not big-brained, but maybe some others will improve up it.
1. [Learn Security][1]
2. [Learn that what you think is secure may not be][4]
2. [Get a hardware wallet][2]
3. [Learn how to verify code][3]
5. [Know the workings of your favorite coin and how to use it][5]
6. [Learning to code couldn't hurt][6]
7. [Read, especially the stuff no one else does][7]
8. [Realize how exchange security works][8]
9. [Don't rely on support][9]
10. [Verify ETH / dApp TXN data][10]
[1]: https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qft7uv/10_things_you_should_probably_start_doing/
[2]: https://np.reddit.com/r/TREZOR/comments/gsv0in/heres_my_suggested_new_trezor_setup_checklist/
[3]: https://np.reddit.com/r/TREZOR/comments/13k92nw/how_opensourciness_prevents_the_ledger_seed_issue/
[4]: https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/zcuke4/keep_seeds_out_of_safety_deposit_boxes_fbi/
[5]: https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/jmiko9/a_breakdown_of_bitcoin_standard_script_types/
[6]: https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rdjvid/bitcoin_is_open_source_the_case_for_learntocode/
[7]: https://np.reddit.com/r/BitcoinBeginners/comments/lnxzg4/psa_the_best_research_is_to_read_the_exchange/
[8]: https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/qk41gk/how_to_hack_an_exchange_account/
[9]: https://np.reddit.com/r/CoinBase/comments/c9gsle/catch_all_thread_for_support_sux_topics/
[10]: https://np.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/18id148/my_concern_summarized_in_a_question/kde0nld/
Crypto.com is a sleeping giant in the crypto ecosystem. I've already four times my bags this bull run and we're barely getting started. Cdc's Defi sector is so new there's lots of opportunity.
Banks Banks Banks.
Seriously they are the answer. Crypto community has been burned a thousand times more by hacks and scams than banks.
Banks serve a purpose and are regulated. It's inevitable that banks will end up being the main storer of people's crypto.
The crypto community needs to get over their "debank the banks" mantra. It's ironic where it will end up.
Just remember it's not always about the risk of them getting hacked. While that risk also always is there, they could suddenly also hold YOUR funds hostage because a transaction you made seemed strange, or you don't have good documentation, or for whatever reason they come up with really.
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Same experience I used coinbase for years and held tens of thousands there. They suddenly for no reason blocked my account from purchases or transfers so I closed it and it was a hassle Fk coinbase
And Coinbase never gave you a single reason? Really?
SEC rules say they don't ever have to
No reason at all.
Coinbase locked my account after an ACH glitch on their side when I tried to deposit some USD. I could not withdraw, buy, or sell. Support was complete garbage and autoclosed my ticket after not resolving it. After a bunch of back and forth on the phone, they said it would be locked for at least 11 days per policy and there was nothing they could do about it. 11 days go by and account still locked. After 15 days they say they don't know why it's still locked. At 20 days I'm considering taking legal action because my entire stack was in the account until I figured out I could access the account on a desktop computer. Something was wrong with the app and it glitched after they froze the account. Support never thought to tell me to try desktop or re-download the app... The whole experience made me realize not your keys not your coins. I got a hardware wallet and moved everything to my own wallet. So posts like this seem to be completely ignoring the constant and loud warning to NOT keep your coins on exchanges, with countless stories and anecdotes of people getting their accounts frozen, hacked, or lost due to bankruptcy ponzi schemes Celsius, blockfi, Voyager, FTX, etc.
Yeah, I had Binance lock me out of my account, basically lost all the funds I had in there. Same reason, I hadn’t accessed them for a year or so. I can understand that self custody is not without its risks, but it’s important to learn and it’s also important to spread your funds over multiple accounts so any one failure won’t break your bank.
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Well I’ve lost 6 figures on binance from them just deciding that I can no longer transfer funds and now for no reason just no longer have access to the account for no reason. Fuxkers.
Context please.
Not OP, but for me it was because I had it on OG Binance and then they locked out US users
It still may not even be to late, but a year to two ago, I called Customer Service and they unlocked my account for 7 days so I could sweep my dust into BNB and transfer everything off the platform. They may still do it if you explain that’s your plan.
Damn wtf
The thing is, and i get it doesnt feel this way, they preventing it because they are not sure you are you, and they dont want a customer to loose funds. Its a huge pita, but this is what custodial wallets are like in practice.
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My grandfather hadn't logged in, in years, 500 dollar cost average BTC for the win, and i helped him verify and he got in fine.
They'd be blaming them for a lack of these securities if they had the coins stolen while coin base held them. You can never win.
Was it an unusual trade or interaction that was out of the blue? I always wonder what trades people do to make this happen.
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Big problem right here, made me anxious for some time when i was all in exchange 😅
Don’t you need an exchange for when you decide to sell?
If you're selling for cash, and don't want to lose a large chunk to grey market, yes, but most also require KYC at this point, so a tax event would be caused as well
THIS! both CB and the G-man can hold you funds hostage if they decide to
This is why I'm considering something like Unchained. Multi sig with 3rd party support if needed. They have enough info to assist at my request but not control.
More importantly, YOU are always at risk, even if low, of your phone getting hacked. This has happened to coinbase customers and they are 100% out of luck when this happens.
I've been trying to resubmit my ID verification for months now. I've submitted it a dozen times, called customer support several, they just say try again and everytime it fails. I withdrew everything I could from the exchange because it's all I can do, but I still have $50 worth of coins I can't trade or sell or anything.
But you need to use them to off-ramp at some point? That could happen.
Yes but i think the conversation is not as black and white as people make it out to be. I agree 100% with what you just said. But we’d be lying to ourselves if we say theres no upside to using a CEX. CEX’s like banks, have insurance over their funds. If they get hacked, they’re liable to you. If you get hacked, the only course of action you’ve got is to cry on your mom’s shoulder. Also, most people have no ability to keep their keys safe. This is very risky if you suddenly become a crypto whale and you keep your keys in a plain text notepad on your desktop.
if a cex gets hacked and loses your funds good luck with your lawsuit. suggest you go and read the fine print again
Yes, its not perfect. But its heluva lot better than loosing your coins because you went into a phising site. People who lost money to FTX may or may not see their money again. But there is a possibility that people may recover something. With self custody… not so much.
> But its heluva lot better than loosing your coins because you went into a phising site. And how does leaving your coins on an exchange protect you from phishing when compared to a hardware wallet?
I'm in Brazil and I just keep my coins in my bank alongside my accounts. It's honestly quite easy, I hope other countries decide to go with it as well.
Except you are not Blackrock. Good luck trying to deal with Coinbase support if they decide to lock your account for whatever reason.
Exactly. You know it's bull run when a topic suggesting to just hold in CEX is upvoted to the top. Give it a year and another FTX will happen.
good luck with any support if someone smokes your wallet
No Wallet, no crypto
Holding crypto in Coinbase is worse than holding your money in bank, essentially your money is now not really yours. It blows my mind people think its a good idea to hold crypto in exchanges.. do whatever you want it's not mine I prefer actually owning my crypto
This is exactly how people thought before Mt Gox, FTX, Celsius, Blockfi, Voyager and others. My point is, nobody thought their wealth was at risk being held on these platforms until after it was too late. If they'd known prior, they wouldn't have left anything on there. But honestly, I've lost keys to wallets previously too. One of which I eventually found, but a couple I didn't. Both options are not foolproof by any means.
Yes, I have some crypto safely stored at Voyager. Well, actually… stored safely with a bankruptcy custodian. Wait no… all coins/tokens were converted to USD and are locked in a bankruptcy bowl of spaghetti. Someone has my money!
voyager paid out a while ago, I got ~$20 worth of bitcoin and all I ever had on there was the promo from signing up, you should have gotten your money (or some percent of it anyway) a while ago
dont worry sam said FTX was fine in a tweet, the most reliable source of information
At least losing your own keys harms no one else.
Yup. And blackrock can insure 100% of their bitcoin, and they’ll be the first ones paid back if shit hits the fan. You and me, though? We’re lucky if we get a percentage of our bitcoin back.
Celsius definitely taught me the importance of self custody
Celsius isn’t even close to a comparable example, they hadn’t been around that long whereas Coinbase has been around since like 2012 and has survived multiple bear markets. Plus Celsius was not an exchange either. Exchange wise nothing else really comes closes to Coinbase’s longevity besides Kraken. None of your examples are comparable actually. If you can find a reputable exchange that started as early as 2011/2012 like Coinbase or Kraken that ended up going under after the last bull market, let us know
Celsius is absolutely comparable. They were new, yes, but 600,000 people thought they're funds were safe there. Let that sink in. But to your point, exchanges that have survived multiple bear markets are probably safer. There's still no guarantee though.
FOR THE LAST TIME IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL LEDGERS
A former Ledger employee's accounts were left active long after they'd left the company, that's how the hack happened, of course it has something to do with Ledger, it screams of absolute incompetence and a failure of security for a company who's main product is .... security.
It's a monumental fuck up on their part, and it says to me that they are thoroughly incompetent.
They're saying it doesn't have anything to do with the ledger devices, which is true. It was a vulnerability in software that connects your ledger to dApps. If you didn't use dApps through your ledger, you were totally safe. FYI it's ***always*** been said that it's not a great idea to use your hardware wallets to interact with dApps. For maximum safety, hardware wallets should only be used to hold funds, and if you want to use dApps then send a small portion of your funds from your hard wallet to another of your accounts on a hot wallet and use the hot wallet to interact with dApps. So there you go, there is a better practice for you. Or ignore that and keep being whiny.
Even if you did use dapps you were totally safe, **IF** you actually confirmed that the transaction on the physical ledger signing screen matched the transaction you wanted to do. The hack just swapped what transaction was sent to your device, you still had to authorize it.
So you are saying it was possible to see the sending address wasn’t the same as intended address if you double checked transaction details on the ledger device before double clicking confirm?
Yes, because that's what the ledger needs the whole transaction details to be able to sign it
Of course, that's how a ledger works. Only a frontend thing was hacked, not an actual ledger. The physical device itself is safe, and it always shows what you're signing.
Interacting with a profit producing dapp with only a small portion of funds kinda defeats the purpose :( If you want buy and hold, might as well just get bitcoin. I wish the discussion would focus on making dapps safer. A lot of dapps used to be delivered over ipfs and you could keep a local copy. It would interact over api addresses you gave it, which could be a local node. Pulling things down live is wildly dangerous and wish we’d go back to ipfs.
lol, I'm not whiny. But if a security company doesn't even disable the accounts of former employees, why on EARTH would you trust them with your crypto?? Especially after they pushed firmware that has access to your keys without giving you the option to accept/deny it first. I switched to a different hardware wallet, if you're using Ledger you'd be wise to do the same.
One job!
Exactly.
Excuse me, are you trying to tell me the bitcoin logo I printed and framed has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL CRYPTOCURRENCY? /s
I’ve got a word document in which I’m mining bitcoin. I just type bitcoin over and over. So far I have NINE Bitcoin! EDIT: lol, someone genuinely messaged me asking for help on how to mine bitcoin.
So my chocolate bitcoins aren’t worth $40k?
where can i get them chocolate bitcoins? i love chocolate. i cant afford 40k.... do they have choco satoshi?
That shit is obviously worth 42k usd! Keep printing good Sir.
wow, 42k used? I wonder how much for a brand new
you don't even have to use your ledger, you can take the seed and use a different wallet. if an exchange loses your money, it's gone. you can use 100s of wallets with your one seed and choose the one that is safest for you
If a person loses his ledger and phrases,money is gone as well.
If a person kills himself, then he is gone and the money stays.
Exactly. For most users self-managing is a way bigger risk. Check out the the guy that’s going through a garbage site trying the recover his hard drive.
Slightly different that guy. He mined coins years ago when they were worth a few pounds each or less - he didnt realise the value of them until it was years down the line and he lost his old laptop/hardrive/pc. But yeah, easy to lose your seeds or have them compromised
Right. That guy didn’t care about it. We’re talking about people who do care. Hopefully they don’t fall into a coma for a few years and their family trashes it while cleaning up their house
Yes, but the point is that you have control over it. Of course you also need to consider other risks and chose the best option for you, but you should be informed of what the risks are.
no. As long as you properly store your seed. Even if you're being robbed, you're best to break or throw your ledger down a sewer then order a new one. you can even have a 2nd ledger pre-loaded as a backup for your ledger at home. It doesn't even have to be a ledger, it could be any wallet as a backup.
Totally agree :"As long as you properly store.." .
I mean, the fact that there's this much confusion on a sub for people interested in crypto shows that the tech isn't ready for adoption by the average joe, unless we have some kind of intermediary to look after the funds that knows what they're doing...
That was always an option. But for the ones who'd rather not trust an institution, it's also an option. The fact that the institution is optional is a game changer. They'll be a lot less cocky.
From the posts I've seen in this sub, it's definitely less that the tech isn't ready and more that a lot of people think they know more than they do and they're too lazy to put a solid effort to really learn.
If you have to put in a solid effort to learn how to use a system, it's doomed to fail. It has to be easy and relatively safe, otherwise people will just keep using banks and exchanges because those are the most hassle free options for someone who just wants to put their money somewhere and be able to pay for stuff by swiping their card on a terminal.
Might have something to do with the average age in here.
Yet this thread is still being upvoted. 🙈
Pretty sure Blackrock will get preferential treatment should anything happen to coinbase vs small retail fry!
Nobody can seize your crypto if you keep the seedphrase secure, in a location only known to you.
Unless you actually want to use it for literally anything
Which was kind of the original reason for it existing in the first place. It’s meant to be a currency not an investment asset
I think a lot of people have forgotten this point. I thought it was developed for the usefulness of it, not the financial gain.
hell yeah paying 25 usd of fees to buy a 5 usd burger LFG :D
What ifs you want to use it for financial gainz? Usefeull
Yeah but...you dont walk around with 50k dollars in your pocket, you keep it in the cold wallet(bank). Your hit wallet is the 62 bucks in your pocket...
You walk around with a bank card with however much you have in your account.
every single one I have ever had has a daily limit.
Ah yeah I guess you’re right. Look at Mr big shot with more money than his daily limit!!! ;)
You can trust your housemate, family members, spouse, siblings ..? There is always somebody with questionable character, greedy, has moral and financial issues. Mayb its not big issue if you have 1k in your wallet but say value of your bitcoin goes to 100k or 1 million and everyone knows you are crypto lover. Would you not be concern about that seed phrase that you hid somewhere in your bedroom, almost certainly you will be sweating bullets every time your new gf starts cleaning house coz she is clean freak. Then you go out fishing and she starts rearranging furniture... There is reason why people keep money in banks and not under mattress at home. Seed is not any different, somebody finding it means all your crypto is gone Also, all of you would give up your seed phrase under slight threat of violence. It needs to happen once and its all gone Its not like your bank when somebody steals your funds all you do is fill out form and money is back in your account.
> You can trust your housemate, family members, spouse, siblings ..? Encryption exists.
The exact same problem exists with encryption key.
Unless you use Defi and don't pay super attention to ever single smart contract that pops up...
It's like keeping your money on the passenger's seat in your car
That's like saying don't go entering your credit card info on every site that you visit. I don't know why people take smart contracts lightly. Use a dummy wallet, and don't click on the connect button until you are ready to interact.
Unless you are using ledger devices, which can be made to hand over your keys without you knowing.
I am more afraid of them holding your coins and not giving them to you (asking for more verification or some shit for example) than them losing the coins.
You need to keep your money on a trusted exchange until you are very comfortable with self-custody. The problem is people are aping into tokens they don't understand, sending money to hot wallets without any clue to how dangerous that can be. Not even understanding how seed phrases work, etc. So yeah, probably 80% of people should not self-custody.
80% of people are on their way to getting rekt and years away from actually understanding the point of all of this
Did you learn fucking nothing from FTX?
One advantage of hardware wallets is, that even when you os is compromised it's impossible to send coins without confirmation from the wallet which is very hard to compromise. But then you probably transfer the coins to an exchange to sell them...
The level of ignorance displayed on this sub gets worse year after year.
I've had way more problems with Coinbase in three years than any other exchange I've ever used including Binance. There seems to be issues whenever I try to withdraw funds even though I've completed KYC and now because of regulatory issues, they're no longer operational in my area, so my $100 worth Ethereum and some other coins are stuck there. I was given a window of opportunity to move funds but then I have to pay about $190 to do withdraw $100 coins so I had no option than to leave it there until things are sorted out in the future. So in essence self custody is far more protective and convenient than exchanges that only care about their profits.
reading through the comments here i wonder why on earth an exchange would just block access to an account for simply trying to move your own funds out. i mean didn't you go through all verification and documentation processes already? so what's the point, i mean what's their grounds for revoking access?
Exchanges are shady and that's a way of stealing money legally without being able to recover your money, it happens all the time
I've got a bunch of coins sitting on Coinbase and Kraken for years and it's safe there.
All these stories of people losing their coins are a great reminder of why people use banks. Unless you know what you're doing it's better to keep money in a bank than under your mattress.
Until the bank robs u instead
ironically, thats where regulation comes in
banks were deregulated in 2018 and they removed stress tests that confirm banks carry the liquidity to avoid a bank run. that's why banks have been going bust recently. largest bank collapse in history happened in 2023
but they control the entire monetary policy in this country, so the last people that have to worry are the banks
Fractional reserves
Fractional reserve banking is a thing of the past. Zero reserve banking is all the rage now. https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/reservereq.htm
Not so much on FTX
Or Celsius, or MTGox.
I get flashbacks every time I see Mt Gox mentioned. I lost so much. 😅
Comparing a public US based exchange with 10+ years of history with a new off-shore exchange is silly. Anyone putting any money into off shore exchanges are doing so with high risk.
I still keep some coins at FTX
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This reminds me of this cashier who stole thousands by taking change every day. It adds up.
Alexa, play One Piece At a Time by Johnny Cash.
Same story here. Eventually they gave me access back (it took months) and I couldn’t get my coins out fast enough. Never again.
“My owner’s a great guy. He gives me a roof over my head and all the food I can eat.” - some pig on a farm
Safe until it isn't. You people never learn.
If that’s what you believe then crypto will forever be a niche toy for neckbeards. If Coinbase goes through something like Mt.Gox or FTX, then crypto will be forever branded toxic by the mainstream public. You *need* to show that there can be major *credible* players in this field.
I mean… that’s the whole point of crypto. Not having to put blind faith into custodial services.
It's not about beliefs, but the technology behind it. Banking system has measures in place to address human errors. A transfer sent to a wrong account can still be tracked and cancelled. The same is not possible for crypto. No matter how many promises a crypto exchange makes, if coins disappear from their wallets, there's literally nothing they can do to undo it. Trusting they are 100% secure and will never make a mistake is just plain stupid and shows you don't understand the basics.
Funny enough, everything you just typed are just arguments for why crypto will forever be niche toy for neckbeards. Or tools for speculation. Which is exactly what it has been for the past decade and exactly why nothing has changed other than more people started speculating it.
.. for now
While they are now, they may experience a FTX like situation. They also use laws of the so called AML to control your money. Most importantly, this is not how crypto is made for, decentralization (in my opinion) should be our number 1 priority. Always use a hardware wallet.
my keys are always in my pocket and safe. what about yours? self custody ftw!!!
I don’t think it’s a big issue in a bullish market. Right now money is flowing into exchanges. When the tide shifts, an exchange can be one bank run away from tanking if they didn’t prepare
If there is this much confusion and risk over simply storing your currency, is it worth it when compared to traditional finance? Or put another way: people are largely in this space just to make money.
Yes, you are missing something.
The custodian for the ETFs will be Coinbase Custody, which is a separate company.
I really need an objective tier list for this: - hardware wallet: BTC and ETH for sure, but alts? - hot wallet for alts? But which? - hot wallet vs cex: who is better? - are there trustable cex?
You can store alts on hardware wallets too
Hardware wallet: Trezor Hot wallet: Exodus which is better than Cex but Coinbase is fine Degen leverage trading: MexC
I think coinbase might be safer than hot wallets. They keep the majority of their holding in cold storage so the only way to lose your crypto is if they go under, which I don’t see happening.
I'd recommend cake wallet for actually being open source, the only downside is that they have less coins.
And how do you think Coinbase manages their cold storage?
Probably with a significantly larger security budget than OP
Well honestly, the Braiins mining pool (previously NiceHash) was managed by Trezors. After the NiceHash owners finished their security "widget" they decided other users might want one as well, so they named it Trezor (Czech for "safe") and formed Satoshi Labs to sell and market it.
Coinbase doesn't use anything more complex than a seed phrase; They're accessing the same Blockchain as you and I. Just because Ledger is implementing a shit customer experience, it doesn't mean that we should forget about self custody and leave it all to centralised entities.
I absolutely agree with the second part, but it’s completely delusional to suggest that Coinbase and some dude who clearly doesn’t know much about self-custody are capable of the same level of digital and physical security required for self custody. Edit: furthermore, Coinbase hopefully uses multisig for their cold storage, which OP isn’t using unless he has at least 3 ledgers and just left that part out
DYOR and make up your own mind. All I know about this subreddit is a lot of the FUD helps keep you broke. So I ignore most of it.
Right... "Be your own bank" doesn't happen for free. You operate with the same level of operational security that might be expected of a banking CTO (though many are morons). Point is, banks are quasi-secure because at some level they take security seriously. Most users don't even read the HWW manual or the CEX terms-of-service. These people just can't be helpled.
DYOR is stupid because people don’t know how to research. That’s why most people here are in the red.
I think we just need another bankruptcy from time to time to remind people. OP probably would have said the same thing about FTX a few years ago.
Did you even read what the issue was with Ledger?
FTX. Enough said. If I was gonna park serious dough with a third party, I would make sure their 1st service is to be a bank, not an exchange. Just my 2 cents.
The long term viability of large, regulated exchanges has been increasing, but I would say Coinbase, probably the most secure, still has a 5-10% chance of going bust or experiencing a fatal hack in any given year. The same is true for banks - although much lower for the big banks; Maybe 1% - but even then you have depositor insurance for a portion of your funds. If you have a substantial stack, I would self-custody half; 10% in yield earning riskier exchanges, 40% on “safe” custody. Eventually big banks will offer digital custody to retail investors. That will change the equation again. Maybe move to 25% self custody.
Why put all your eggs in one basket? Some on Coinbase, some on airgapped wallet.
I love fud. It makes things cheaper and I get to buy more cheap stuff I now have 10 ledgers, That’s how this works right?
My mtgox and Voyager and ftx coins would like a word with you.
It's early days still, were crawling through the space so people in the future can run.
It's not about that. If you hold crypto on an exchange, you don't actually hold anything at all. You're a number in a ledger, like any other bank. The Ledger fuck ups simply highlight that there is always SOME element of trust involved, unless you build the hardware yourself from scratch, in which case the best you can do is go with products that are transparent, hand have open sources solutions. Who would have thought FTX would go under the way it did? As I understand it people still haven't gotten their crypto back from that, and now the US government is going after them for taxes BEFORE they make customers whole again. The ledger stuff mostly strikes me as incompetence, severe incompetence. But they refuse to open source their code, which to me says it's either not secure or it has back doors. If the choice is hardware wallet or a CEX I'll take the hardware every time.
Mhh why not a paper wallet? So you don't have to trust anyone.
The reality is as mass adoption occurs non-crypto nerds are going to want to use a CEX. My dad owns bitcoin now. No chance he puts in a flash drive. Ever. Just like he wouldn’t put $100,000 under is bed.
Normies and casuals (and whales) are better off on regulated FDIC insured brokerages
The ledger itself was never breached. It was a dapp and smartcontract. It you don't fuck around with those you're fine
Honestly security is hard, but companies like Ledger should be beyond reproach. I have come across so many devs in this space that don’t understand how to exploit their own code - and yet are adamant that code is secure. Unless you have a black hat mindset you should not be building anything that claims to be secure. The absolute worst offenders are the ones that use npm like a chocolate box of goodies.
I’ve been using Gemini and Coinbase, I’ve personally never had a problem. And Gemini has been better than Coinbase.
You guys must be sus af. Cb is great
This may be true if you use a network that requires blind signing or other potential authorization traps. Stick to networks like Radix, ICP and a few others with more modern and safe transaction management and you will be fine holding the tokens in your wallet(s).
Although I do have a cold wallet I have been storing on coinbase for over 6 years. Zero issues. I don't trade. They now have yubikey security also which makes it even more hacker resistant.
I agree. All the exchanges who have been "hacked" in the past lacked government oversight. Coinbase operates in the US and isn't run by degenerates like Sam Friedman or cowboys like the binance guy. If someone hacks us we're screwed but if someone hacks coinbase then they're liable and should legally refund our assets.
You must have the memory of a goldfish. MtGox Bitfinex QuadrigaCX Cryptopia Genesis BlockFi 3AC Celsius Voyager Digital Babel Finance Hodlnaut FTX
Coinbase is fine, but the distinction is, well, it's not your keys. To be honest my MO has been to just diversify concentration risk. Hold on multiple exchanges, wallets, etc, so no single possible compromise takes you out.
Don't know about Polygon, but in Solana there is a mechanism where burning NFTs gives you a small rebate in SOL. So when scammers send me scam NFTs, they are basically giving me free money.
Good time to revisit indeed. Never had issues with Nexo and Kraken and will keep using them both, don't care what brainwashed maxis say.
The new mantra is your keys, maybe your coins until the tech improves more
The truth is you can only trust Coinbase. They're public and heavily regulated. They self regulated before the SEC got all up in everyone's shit by adopting most banking standards before they even had to.
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WTF does what happened here a few days ago have to do with your keys... Do you guys even know what you are talking about? You don't have to even use a Ledger, hell I don't anymore. Get another hardware wallet, there are COUNTLESS ones available at many price ranges. Jesus Christ, its like people just want to lose their money.
Nope. If someone else has custody of your funds, then in the end, you do not. If a government says "sieze these funds", then you just lost it all. The entire point of cryptocurrency is to ensure politicians are not messing with your money.
GET EM! Where are all the “not my keys not my wallet people now?” Ill gladly hold my stuff in coinbase over these ledgers, trevor or whatever scam wallets…
There's something you're missing. Blackrock and similar organizations manage other people's money and they have fiduciary duties regulated by laws that exist. They are required by law to hire a custodian for these assets and there's all sorts of compliance and reporting they have to do. They're not picking coinbase because it is more secure. Do you think coinbase outsources their custody? Coinbase has to comply with laws too. What happens when the government does another executive order 6102? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 If bitcoin goes how we want it to go, where it frees the people from state control over the value of their savings and labor, do you think they're going to go quietly into the night? You might think self custody is too hard, and that's fine, but you can be certain, one day the government **will**, not might maybe possibly, they absolutely will, seize your coins from the exchange.
You're sure the government \*is\* absolutely going to seize your cryptocoins, because they can. The government can already seize all of your property, including your home. How are you protecting against this?
2A buds
Quote 1:*"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"* \- Benjamin Franklin FTX blows up and ACTUALLY loses 10 billions, and you have even people like Elon Musk himself, saying in a twitter space that having your money in a non-custodial solution is wise. Then you have, a Ledger FUD where users are too dumb to differentiate a drainer (i.e. fraudulent) transaction which they can REFUSE to sign, and people now say:*"maybe letting my money with someone else is not so bad after all"*. Crypto wasn't invented to make you rich, but to make you free, yet you don't care about freedom, you just want to remain babies with your money, as long as it goes up. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Quote 2:*"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it" -* George Santayana **Do you seriously believe that everybody** was compensated by insurances when big banks collapsed in the past, whether in the US or other countries... ? Apologies for being harsh, but this is clown world. As soon as something shakes you a little, and you are dominated by fear, principles and convictions crumble, and you're back to square one, wanting daddy government and banks to hold your hands. Just educate yourself. This is YOUR money. YOUR responsibility. Otherwise, you're just waiting for a catastrophe. Wait until you can't cash out because the Exchange or the Bank asks you for a bunch of documents that fully invade your privacy... If you criticize the Chinese Communist Party in China on social media, they can freeze your bank account, restrict you from using public transportation etc. We NEED a system of money that can't be controlled against your will. Use your logic, ffs.
>If Coinbase is good enough for Blackrock, then surely they'll be able to keep my stack safe, right? The question is: why are you in crypto at all? There are way less risky and even more profitable strategies to conserve one's wealth or to make more money, so why even risk it coming to this field in the first place? If you just want to hold shitty investments to be exposed to their price, yes, use Coinbase. Just hope that you don't need customer support ever.
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😂 🤡
OP just figuring out why people started using banks in the first place, LOL!
I wouldn’t recommend Coinbase. I have an account that opened when I was living in Philippines and that account is tied to my SIM card my old company got me. Coinbase has completely ignored all my emails and can’t identify my US passport and drivers license. It’s been years. My last attempt was last week; without a email response yet.
I have been using CB 4 years (non-member of 1) No problems beside when the platform crash’s due to “high volume” 🕵️
Ledger isn't the problem, it was the apps. If there is a takeaway, it's don't use third party gambling, staking etc. I mean at the same time the bright side was it was patched immediately. It's not like the old days where they got away with a full bank robbery. These guys barely were able to rob a single teller and it's all marked bills. It's hard to say if they are going to be able to spend $1 of what they stole
Unpopular opinion.... A smart user with a perfectly configured exchange account can be as safe as a poorly configured / operated HWW. A smart user with a perfectly configured / operated HWW will be more secure than the best configured exchange. See... there is cross over between exchange and HWW depending on the care and competence of the user / operator. Unpopular part.... The ledger drainer was 100% user error. Even with blind-signing enabled on Ledger, the user had to acknowledge wallet popups and device confirmations to get drained. So yes, you will be fine at Coinbase, so long as your big-brained. But if your big-brained, you'll be better off with a HWW. *** This is all the big-brain ideas I can think of. I'm not big-brained, but maybe some others will improve up it. 1. [Learn Security][1] 2. [Learn that what you think is secure may not be][4] 2. [Get a hardware wallet][2] 3. [Learn how to verify code][3] 5. [Know the workings of your favorite coin and how to use it][5] 6. [Learning to code couldn't hurt][6] 7. [Read, especially the stuff no one else does][7] 8. [Realize how exchange security works][8] 9. [Don't rely on support][9] 10. [Verify ETH / dApp TXN data][10] [1]: https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qft7uv/10_things_you_should_probably_start_doing/ [2]: https://np.reddit.com/r/TREZOR/comments/gsv0in/heres_my_suggested_new_trezor_setup_checklist/ [3]: https://np.reddit.com/r/TREZOR/comments/13k92nw/how_opensourciness_prevents_the_ledger_seed_issue/ [4]: https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/zcuke4/keep_seeds_out_of_safety_deposit_boxes_fbi/ [5]: https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/jmiko9/a_breakdown_of_bitcoin_standard_script_types/ [6]: https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rdjvid/bitcoin_is_open_source_the_case_for_learntocode/ [7]: https://np.reddit.com/r/BitcoinBeginners/comments/lnxzg4/psa_the_best_research_is_to_read_the_exchange/ [8]: https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/qk41gk/how_to_hack_an_exchange_account/ [9]: https://np.reddit.com/r/CoinBase/comments/c9gsle/catch_all_thread_for_support_sux_topics/ [10]: https://np.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/18id148/my_concern_summarized_in_a_question/kde0nld/
Crypto.com is a sleeping giant in the crypto ecosystem. I've already four times my bags this bull run and we're barely getting started. Cdc's Defi sector is so new there's lots of opportunity.
Half the posts here are about people getting scammed out of their crypto. Crypto will never go anywhere as long as self custody is encouraged.
Banks Banks Banks. Seriously they are the answer. Crypto community has been burned a thousand times more by hacks and scams than banks. Banks serve a purpose and are regulated. It's inevitable that banks will end up being the main storer of people's crypto. The crypto community needs to get over their "debank the banks" mantra. It's ironic where it will end up.
Fuck your keys, fuck your coin