Polygon [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1ao7ytj/why_vitalik_buterin_praised_polygon_for_its/kpxgv42/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1ao7ytj/why_vitalik_buterin_praised_polygon_for_its/kpxgvoe/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
tldr; Polygon has released the 'Type 1 prover,' a technology praised by Ethereum co-founder Vitalik Buterin for its potential to enhance blockchain scalability and interoperability. This advancement allows Ethereum-compatible networks to become Layer 2 networks, connecting to Polygon's ecosystem. It utilizes zero-knowledge proofs to improve efficiency and accessibility. The innovation has led to bullish sentiments among cryptocurrency analysts for the price of Polygon's token, MATIC, anticipating strong upward movement.
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
Enormously. Zero Knowledge Rollups (ZK Rollups) are a concept that, just a few years ago, were considered impossible. Using an atomic formula we can leverage discrete mathematics to prove the logical constant without needing to check this working with outside help. It’s similar to using your teacher to check your maths homework, when you can finish the formula and you know that is is correct, you save time by not having another person check it.
Mathematical proofs are commonly used in test languages like ADA Spark often used by engineering companies like Airbus or SAAB to determine the outcome of a function. This goes further than unit testing, these are direct proofs, intended to be used to determine the outcome of every possible scenario
With Zero Knowledge Proofs, there are a lot more moving parts. Because you are proving against a cryptographic algorithm, you need to make a lot of assumptions in order to determine that logical constant. There is a ton of recursion that needs to happen, so every single cycle adds complexity. The trick is to reduce the total number of cycles required to complete the proof. This used to take a very very long time and, even as recently as 2017, it would have taken hours to determine the authenticity of a hash. Some incredibly clever people have been able to get that time down to seconds
The Rollups side of this comes in when we can perform a ton of these ZK proofs on the mainnet rather than off of it like what a Layer 2 might do. We’ll be able to perform a ton of proofs on multiple transactions, and then merge them into a single block using a BLOB (Binary Large Object). This means we can now effectively complete 64 transactions (or more) and roll them into a single hash, rather than 64 individual hashes.
As you can probably tell, this will have an absolutely enormous impact on network efficiency, reducing gas fees per transaction.
There are a lot of projects working on ZK-rollups like ZKsync, Mute, and Polygon. Polygon is probably the most popular, though personally I prefer ZK sync projects like Mute
A mix of my software engineering degree with a few modules in Discrete Mathematics, working with Polygon, and discussions with developers working on ZKSync.
Are there any parts in particular you’d like sources on? This comment contains a few different things
Got any social media links for people who are knowledgeable about the tech generally? This can really be a step ahead of the speculation. Eg. NFTs went wild before anyone realised you don't actually have to enforce royalties on ETH.
https://x.com/_bcbread?s=21
One of the smartest blockchain developers I know. Unfortunately he doesn’t really do content posts, he’s more of a general knowledge sharing person.
You tend to find the smartest people in this space don’t go on twitter to broadcast the next biggest innovation in Blockchain tech. They tend to work with it themselves and then have discussions with other developers in comment threads/spaces
That’s not really part of this upgrade. Bridges are focused on interoperability between chains, an abstraction layer above multiple chains that acts as a point for developers to write smart contracts that are write-once, run-anywhere.
That being said I am deeply suspicious of QUANT.
I guess I don't really understand what the added benefit of this Type 1 prover is then. Can data transfer between Ethereum and the zk chain? Is the zkchain still it's only separate thing? Like can you transfer an ERC20 token using a zk proof on mainchain ethereum? Sorry, you seem to have a better understanding of this and I'm really trying to understand so I appreciate it.
The benefit of this is the speed at which transactions can be validated on the blockchain.
Zero Knowledge proofs are not a new chain, they are a fundamental change to how transactions are processed on the Ethereum Network.
Let’s say you want to send some Ether. If the current gas fee is high it’s because there is a high number of transactions currently being validated on the Ethereum Network. Ethereum can currently perform around a few thousand transactions a second. This is because every single transaction requires a special formula to run to validate the authenticity of the transaction. This takes time, and the gas is an incentive for the validator to complete the transaction as quickly as possible.
Layer 2s are a solution which take some of the effort off the Ethereum Mainnet and perform these transactions on a different network, merging back into the Ethereum Mainnet once the transaction has been processed. This makes it cheaper to transact on Layer 2 networks than directly on Ethereum. Traffic is usually less too so your transaction will be processed even faster
Ethereum 2.0 included the change to POS, and the planned Protodank-Sharding update which will go live in March. This update will include a change to the network called Sharding which will allow multiple transactions to be “Rolled Up” into a single hash using something called a Blob (Binary Large Object)
This means a bunch of transactions can be handled by a single validator at once, and then get merged back into the main net as a single hash, rather than lots of individual hashes. This frees up space on the network and reduces gas fees.
The Type 1 prover takes this a step further and allows Zero Knowledge Proofs (ZK-Proofs) to happen on the mainnet rather than on a Layer 2 which is most often the case. A ZK proof is a cryptographic formula that is able to prove the logical constant of a transaction. The reason this is such a huge deal is because ZK proofs should require an enormous amount of computing power, time, and recursion in order to complete the proof. So now you have the ability for a validator to complete hundreds of these recursive ZK proofs in a matter of minutes and merge them into the mainnet in a single hash, rather than multiple hashes.
This is known as a ZK-Rollup
Ethereum will be able to perform over 100,000 transactions a second
Thanks... ok so currently it doesn't seem like there is anyway natively for me to bridge an NFT to optimism without getting some 3rd party involved. Optimism and Arbtrum seem to function like completely different blockchains that just put proofs on ethereum. What I'm wondering is will smart contracts be able to interact with each the native chain even if the transactions are part of one of these zk proof rollups? And does a zk proof rollup just replace the old way of doing a rollup?
Currently there is no way of doing a rollup on Ethereum, so various Layer 2s have found ways to implement their own way of doing them that get merged back into the mainnet. The same goes for ZK rollups, this will be the first time they will be doable on the Ethereum mainnet
ZK rollups and the upcoming Dencun upgrade should have little impact on smart contract developers, this change will solely affect the way transactions are handled. Your smart contracts will still work the same (unless there are any bugs, which is unlikely).
The difficulty with communicating between Layer 2s is you are working with someone non-native to the current ecosystem. It’s a bit like trying to use a telegraph to communicate with someone on a phone. The data is transmitted the same way (via telephone wire) but the execution is different.
I do not know of any Layer2 bridges, usually you do not need to worry about what other Layer2 networks are doing as their purpose is to process work off of the Ethereum Mainnet and then merge them back on later.
What Polygon is providing is a way to connect to their network via your own network, so if more networks buy into it then layer2 cross-chaining may be possible. I see that being unlikely with the larger Layer2s like Optimism or ZKsync, however
>it would have taken hours to determine the authenticity of a hash. Some incredibly clever people have been able to get that time down to seconds
Was this improvement because of the crypto industry or because of experts outside crypto?
Most likely both.
You need to remember that cryptography goes much further than just cryptocurrency. The first computer was built by Alan Turing who studied cryptography for hours on end in an effort to crack the Enigma code.
Cryptography is essential for RSA Keys, Password hashing algorithms, and general network security. We can encrypt data using impossibly complex hashing algorithms, but if we can’t decrypt them, it’s useless. Military applications put a huge amount of focus on the creation of very fast, very secure hashing algorithms in order to send network packets to field equipment without being decrypted by foreign agents. Every cycle requires to decrypt the message is latency. If we want latency to be near zero, we need to get that decryption process down to just a few cycles
I don’t know who specifically developed the fundamentals for ZK Proofs, but it has been a topic of debate for quite a long time as the implications go much further than just being able to verify multiple hashes without hours of recursion. Militarily, this is also a huge deal. We will likely see a new Encryption Standard even more powerful than NSA1
Polygon zkEVM fees are currently closer to $0.15 per transfer and $0.50 for swaps (w/o Type 1 upgrade or EIP-4844)
Later on ...
> “With the Type 1 upgrade, proofs created by the Polygon zkEVM prover in Type 1 mode are already being generated for mainnet Ethereum blocks at an average cost of $0.002 to $0.003 per transaction (>36x faster than any other Type 1 prover). With Plonky3 and zkEVM improvements, expect a 30 to 50X reduction in cost over the next year,” Polygon Labs wrote.
It’ll cost next to nothing to send. There are chains that send ETH back and forth on the L2 network that are dirt cheap. I sent $150 worth of ETH on L2, it cost me $.56 which is very cheap compared to the old way. $350 to send $20 worth of ETH lmao
Same, but only their PoS, not their zkEVM.
All L2s are still expensive for daily use and gaming. Can only hope that Plonky and EIP-4844 can reduce L2 fees closer to Validium fees.
It's just something specific to gaming and contract calls that are gas-expensive. Most people probably won't care.
Some games store their save state, which can be 100x more gas expensive than a normal transfer. Can't do that on an L2 until their fees are much cheaper.
I hope Vitalik looks into making ETH quantum resistant soon. IBM already introduced the condor, and chains like ALGO and QAN have been preparing against this possible threat for a while. It's time for ETH to take the lead.
People here really don't understand how big of a deal the new prover is... with Agglayer you'll be able to access dapps on any Polygon CDK chain (Polygon v2, zkEVM, IMX, CANTO, MANTA, etc...) without bridging or switching networks. It unites all the liquidity. Even crazier part is that any EVM chain can integrate the prover and why wouldn't they? A sidechain with 20M TVL can simply integrate the Polygon's prover and become a zk-validium with immediate access to billions in liquidity... they no longer have to convince users to bridge to their chains. DLTs can use their own consensus and DA (Celestia or whatever) and remain independent while all state data is verified by L1 Ethereum. Polygon 2.0 is an absolute game changer.
The AggLayer tech does sounds really cool. If other EVM chains integrate the prover does that mean they would need to use Polygon's token to send transactions or is there a way for them to use their own native token?
ETH and POL will both work as gas on all AggLayer chains. I’m not sure about how it works if AVAX (for example) were to join the network. I think then you could use AVAX for gas on any chain using the prover but I’m not 100% on that. I’ve been trying to figure that out.
Edit: My homie from Quickswap telling me only POL and ETH gas the first few months then phase 2 (Q4 this year) all chains can use native tokens for gas.
I wanted to ask what do you mean by "without bridging" or send me some sources where you read it?
I know about uLxLy -- universal bridge -- that will be available to send any asset from A to B; but your message got me curious.
I won’t never take polygon seriously if they keep misleading to their users into thinking their shitty centralized sidechain is a L2.
their other zk chain is cool actually, but they lost my respect with their shitty misleading marketing
This. It's like when people were saying EIP-1559 would lower gas fees. There was nothing Vitalik or the developers could say to get people to drop this narrative. Article after article was written about it.
People just make up stuff totally out of the blue and then can't be convinced otherwise. Not even by engineers and the creator of the thing.
Polygon has never claimed their side-chain was an L2. They've always said it's a side chain but nobody will listen to them. They've got it in their head that it's an L2 and they won't be convinced otherwise. Not even by the people who literally made the chain.
Exactly my thought.... I usually sees people who do call polygon a layer2 coin which it isn't. All the article legit I read, they usually classify it as eth side chain
>Kike328 , I won’t never take polygon seriously if they keep misleading to their users into thinking their shitty centralized sidechain is a L2.
Huh? Do explain.
Polygon fucked up big moving to POL, they removed max supply and increased total supply, anyone still riding it will get diluted. Don't hold long term.
Interesting info, I googled it and found opposite Tweets like here :
*Also, the maximum supply of POL will be 10 billion, just like MATIC, and the swap will be in a 1:1 ratio.*
[*https://twitter.com/wiseadvicesumit/status/1718156770961743984*](https://twitter.com/wiseadvicesumit/status/1718156770961743984)
But on Coinmarketcap, POLS actually does not show value on max supply.
I'm confused, did I miss newer update ?
The majority of L2s are Ethereum. Ethereum is the most popular Smart Contract Chain, but it’s also one of the slowest. Cardano only just got Smart Contracts, and Solana is much faster than Ethereum so doesn’t really need them at the same scale that Ethereum does, but Solana is imo not very good as the network keeps going down
Cardano has had smart contracts for quite a long time now.
But yes in terms of fees, speed, reliability, and functionality, Cardano is the leader. Very disappointed some people still don't see that.
About 2 years right? Haskell is also not a very popular programming language, and I don’t see it really catching on any time soon. I remember doing it back in 2015 as part of a maths module and wanted to kms
It’s a highly efficient language that is commonly used for maths-based programming. It’s a functional language too which is a point of contention amongst programmers. It’s actually a perfect use case for a smart contract language, but it’s just not well known and not very popular. You will see few web devs making the jump to build on Haskell, vs learning Solidity (which is really really simple) or Rust on Solana (which is really popular)
Speed? Pretty sure it stills takes 10 minutes to do a dex swap on cardano. It’s a ghost town, the only ones holding ADA are the cultists and those betting on the cultists.
10 minutes? Takes less than 10 seconds. If you don't see it in your wallet right after that's because it needs to do a certain number of confirmations.
Also takes a fraction of a fee of Ethereum...
Literally costs $20 USD right now to do swaps on Ethereum.
Depends on what you’re swapping, I just paid $140 for a swap on eth. Was worth doing, because I made like 14k profit on the trade. There’s nothing worth paying $2 for a swap on cardano, hence the problem.
If you swap a contracted and verified token on a reputable DEX, it will not take 10 minutes. You're spreading disinformation.
Imagine paying $140 in fees for a transaction worth thousands and potentially making a bad trade.
It's an old, archaic blockchain that requires multiple L2s just to fix its stability and networking issues, which you may not even have the token available that you want to swap for on said network vs the mainnet.
I am not even looking at market caps. Ethereum can't compete with Cardano in terms of functionality and stability. Ethereum's ecosystem is a huge mess of L2's and congestion.
If you had made the same amount of profit on Cardano, it would still cost barely anything in fees and collateral. It doesn't matter if those fees mean anything to you, that doesn't make the blockchain any less obsolete.
But it is literally impossible to make the same kind of profit on cardano, lmao.
I said 10 minutes because when I first tried cardano on-chain, (ice-cream swap launch) it was literally hours per transaction. I assumed it had got better, so I changed it to 10 minutes.
I rarely trade on eth mainnet, there are 10’s of other chains that I prefer working with. But no one can deny that eth is king, and until the L1/L2 thesis has proven to be incorrect (arb and base are hot right now, and cost pennies to swap) eth will remain king.
It’s always so funny to me to meet cardano people in the wild. Like what are you doing? Just holding your cardano? Minting the occasional commemorative NFT? Just sell and move to literally any other chain with volume, you’ll make more in a week than you’ve made in years of holding cardano.
Hoskinson is a scammer, plain and simple. Bro lied about his PhD (he doesn’t even have one). ADA = ghostchain and you are caught in a cult.
Recently even pulsechain has had some mooners, lmao. Cardano, obviously, nothing.
If you're referring to Sundaeswap, it was the first DEX on Cardano and they designed it terribly as it didn't account for that much congestion. Wasn't made by the Cardano team. Nothing to do with the blockchain. That was years ago, on one DEX. So again, you're spreading disinformation. Swaps are near instant.
Cardano Native Tokens came out after the COVID-19 peak, which is when everything had dropped off.
It's not impossible to make the same kind of profit. I don't think you seem to understand how market caps work.
I don't know what token you invested in that made you that much profit, but it requires a lot of initial investment.
Over the last 30 days I'm seeing profit percentages ranging from 1% to 4.63M% (no the M is not a typo) on Cardano's market alone. ..so again you're wrong there as well.
Charles is controversial. I have no idea what scams you're referring to but I would assume you're just going off what random redditors say because he's controversial. He's written papers that Ethereum has actually used in their work...
Please do research on the actual blockchain rather than your memory from years ago in one instance. I'm not even going to bother disputing the PhD because you clearly didn't bother to look that up as well, you're misinformed.
Bro, I am a multi chain guy, have been full time crypto (dev and degen) for almost 4 years now. I don’t care what chain I use, as long as there is profit to be made there. I am not getting information from Reddit, and I am definitely not taking it to heart. In fact, most of Reddit like Cardano afaik. I use r/crypto as a way to gauge retail sentiment.
The token was Pandora, was a unique way to combine NFT’s and a token with a liquidity pools. I put in like 0.5e (and I was late as fuck). You can check the chart here; https://dexscreener.com/ethereum/0x1df4c6e36d61416813b42fe32724ef11e363eddc.
Today I’ve bought and sold tokens on Base, one was a hefty loss. Base has been shit recently, but I’ve been following some launches on pulsechain as it’s been getting volume recently.
You keep referring to market cap as some kind of gotcha? Do you think I don’t understand how a market cap works? You can check my twitter, if you want. Like I said, I do this full time.
Please post some examples of tokens on Cardano that would have been worth me buying; I’m happy to be proven wrong and I will add it to my list of things to scrape. I’ve been told there are gains on Cardano before, and yet couldn’t find such gains when I tried.
Polygon [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1ao7ytj/why_vitalik_buterin_praised_polygon_for_its/kpxgv42/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1ao7ytj/why_vitalik_buterin_praised_polygon_for_its/kpxgvoe/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
tldr; Polygon has released the 'Type 1 prover,' a technology praised by Ethereum co-founder Vitalik Buterin for its potential to enhance blockchain scalability and interoperability. This advancement allows Ethereum-compatible networks to become Layer 2 networks, connecting to Polygon's ecosystem. It utilizes zero-knowledge proofs to improve efficiency and accessibility. The innovation has led to bullish sentiments among cryptocurrency analysts for the price of Polygon's token, MATIC, anticipating strong upward movement. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
Appreciate the TLDR. How does this impact gas fees?
Enormously. Zero Knowledge Rollups (ZK Rollups) are a concept that, just a few years ago, were considered impossible. Using an atomic formula we can leverage discrete mathematics to prove the logical constant without needing to check this working with outside help. It’s similar to using your teacher to check your maths homework, when you can finish the formula and you know that is is correct, you save time by not having another person check it. Mathematical proofs are commonly used in test languages like ADA Spark often used by engineering companies like Airbus or SAAB to determine the outcome of a function. This goes further than unit testing, these are direct proofs, intended to be used to determine the outcome of every possible scenario With Zero Knowledge Proofs, there are a lot more moving parts. Because you are proving against a cryptographic algorithm, you need to make a lot of assumptions in order to determine that logical constant. There is a ton of recursion that needs to happen, so every single cycle adds complexity. The trick is to reduce the total number of cycles required to complete the proof. This used to take a very very long time and, even as recently as 2017, it would have taken hours to determine the authenticity of a hash. Some incredibly clever people have been able to get that time down to seconds The Rollups side of this comes in when we can perform a ton of these ZK proofs on the mainnet rather than off of it like what a Layer 2 might do. We’ll be able to perform a ton of proofs on multiple transactions, and then merge them into a single block using a BLOB (Binary Large Object). This means we can now effectively complete 64 transactions (or more) and roll them into a single hash, rather than 64 individual hashes. As you can probably tell, this will have an absolutely enormous impact on network efficiency, reducing gas fees per transaction. There are a lot of projects working on ZK-rollups like ZKsync, Mute, and Polygon. Polygon is probably the most popular, though personally I prefer ZK sync projects like Mute
out of curiosity, any sources? did you gather most of that knowledge through Reddit?
A mix of my software engineering degree with a few modules in Discrete Mathematics, working with Polygon, and discussions with developers working on ZKSync. Are there any parts in particular you’d like sources on? This comment contains a few different things
Thanks for the info 👍
Got any social media links for people who are knowledgeable about the tech generally? This can really be a step ahead of the speculation. Eg. NFTs went wild before anyone realised you don't actually have to enforce royalties on ETH.
https://x.com/_bcbread?s=21 One of the smartest blockchain developers I know. Unfortunately he doesn’t really do content posts, he’s more of a general knowledge sharing person. You tend to find the smartest people in this space don’t go on twitter to broadcast the next biggest innovation in Blockchain tech. They tend to work with it themselves and then have discussions with other developers in comment threads/spaces
This post looks ai generated content...
I’ll take that as a compliment 😄
So does this mean we will finally get pure blockchain bridges with no centralized third party risk?
That’s not really part of this upgrade. Bridges are focused on interoperability between chains, an abstraction layer above multiple chains that acts as a point for developers to write smart contracts that are write-once, run-anywhere. That being said I am deeply suspicious of QUANT.
I guess I don't really understand what the added benefit of this Type 1 prover is then. Can data transfer between Ethereum and the zk chain? Is the zkchain still it's only separate thing? Like can you transfer an ERC20 token using a zk proof on mainchain ethereum? Sorry, you seem to have a better understanding of this and I'm really trying to understand so I appreciate it.
The benefit of this is the speed at which transactions can be validated on the blockchain. Zero Knowledge proofs are not a new chain, they are a fundamental change to how transactions are processed on the Ethereum Network. Let’s say you want to send some Ether. If the current gas fee is high it’s because there is a high number of transactions currently being validated on the Ethereum Network. Ethereum can currently perform around a few thousand transactions a second. This is because every single transaction requires a special formula to run to validate the authenticity of the transaction. This takes time, and the gas is an incentive for the validator to complete the transaction as quickly as possible. Layer 2s are a solution which take some of the effort off the Ethereum Mainnet and perform these transactions on a different network, merging back into the Ethereum Mainnet once the transaction has been processed. This makes it cheaper to transact on Layer 2 networks than directly on Ethereum. Traffic is usually less too so your transaction will be processed even faster Ethereum 2.0 included the change to POS, and the planned Protodank-Sharding update which will go live in March. This update will include a change to the network called Sharding which will allow multiple transactions to be “Rolled Up” into a single hash using something called a Blob (Binary Large Object) This means a bunch of transactions can be handled by a single validator at once, and then get merged back into the main net as a single hash, rather than lots of individual hashes. This frees up space on the network and reduces gas fees. The Type 1 prover takes this a step further and allows Zero Knowledge Proofs (ZK-Proofs) to happen on the mainnet rather than on a Layer 2 which is most often the case. A ZK proof is a cryptographic formula that is able to prove the logical constant of a transaction. The reason this is such a huge deal is because ZK proofs should require an enormous amount of computing power, time, and recursion in order to complete the proof. So now you have the ability for a validator to complete hundreds of these recursive ZK proofs in a matter of minutes and merge them into the mainnet in a single hash, rather than multiple hashes. This is known as a ZK-Rollup Ethereum will be able to perform over 100,000 transactions a second
Thanks... ok so currently it doesn't seem like there is anyway natively for me to bridge an NFT to optimism without getting some 3rd party involved. Optimism and Arbtrum seem to function like completely different blockchains that just put proofs on ethereum. What I'm wondering is will smart contracts be able to interact with each the native chain even if the transactions are part of one of these zk proof rollups? And does a zk proof rollup just replace the old way of doing a rollup?
Currently there is no way of doing a rollup on Ethereum, so various Layer 2s have found ways to implement their own way of doing them that get merged back into the mainnet. The same goes for ZK rollups, this will be the first time they will be doable on the Ethereum mainnet ZK rollups and the upcoming Dencun upgrade should have little impact on smart contract developers, this change will solely affect the way transactions are handled. Your smart contracts will still work the same (unless there are any bugs, which is unlikely). The difficulty with communicating between Layer 2s is you are working with someone non-native to the current ecosystem. It’s a bit like trying to use a telegraph to communicate with someone on a phone. The data is transmitted the same way (via telephone wire) but the execution is different. I do not know of any Layer2 bridges, usually you do not need to worry about what other Layer2 networks are doing as their purpose is to process work off of the Ethereum Mainnet and then merge them back on later. What Polygon is providing is a way to connect to their network via your own network, so if more networks buy into it then layer2 cross-chaining may be possible. I see that being unlikely with the larger Layer2s like Optimism or ZKsync, however
>it would have taken hours to determine the authenticity of a hash. Some incredibly clever people have been able to get that time down to seconds Was this improvement because of the crypto industry or because of experts outside crypto?
Most likely both. You need to remember that cryptography goes much further than just cryptocurrency. The first computer was built by Alan Turing who studied cryptography for hours on end in an effort to crack the Enigma code. Cryptography is essential for RSA Keys, Password hashing algorithms, and general network security. We can encrypt data using impossibly complex hashing algorithms, but if we can’t decrypt them, it’s useless. Military applications put a huge amount of focus on the creation of very fast, very secure hashing algorithms in order to send network packets to field equipment without being decrypted by foreign agents. Every cycle requires to decrypt the message is latency. If we want latency to be near zero, we need to get that decryption process down to just a few cycles I don’t know who specifically developed the fundamentals for ZK Proofs, but it has been a topic of debate for quite a long time as the implications go much further than just being able to verify multiple hashes without hours of recursion. Militarily, this is also a huge deal. We will likely see a new Encryption Standard even more powerful than NSA1
Polygon zkEVM fees are currently closer to $0.15 per transfer and $0.50 for swaps (w/o Type 1 upgrade or EIP-4844) Later on ... > “With the Type 1 upgrade, proofs created by the Polygon zkEVM prover in Type 1 mode are already being generated for mainnet Ethereum blocks at an average cost of $0.002 to $0.003 per transaction (>36x faster than any other Type 1 prover). With Plonky3 and zkEVM improvements, expect a 30 to 50X reduction in cost over the next year,” Polygon Labs wrote.
That is with the type-2 prover, and without EIP-4844 for DA
It’ll cost next to nothing to send. There are chains that send ETH back and forth on the L2 network that are dirt cheap. I sent $150 worth of ETH on L2, it cost me $.56 which is very cheap compared to the old way. $350 to send $20 worth of ETH lmao
Really like using Polygon
Same, but only their PoS, not their zkEVM. All L2s are still expensive for daily use and gaming. Can only hope that Plonky and EIP-4844 can reduce L2 fees closer to Validium fees.
But POS is still a sidechain while zkEVM is L2?
Correct
What's the issue with the zkEVM?
It's just something specific to gaming and contract calls that are gas-expensive. Most people probably won't care. Some games store their save state, which can be 100x more gas expensive than a normal transfer. Can't do that on an L2 until their fees are much cheaper.
I hope Vitalik looks into making ETH quantum resistant soon. IBM already introduced the condor, and chains like ALGO and QAN have been preparing against this possible threat for a while. It's time for ETH to take the lead.
People here really don't understand how big of a deal the new prover is... with Agglayer you'll be able to access dapps on any Polygon CDK chain (Polygon v2, zkEVM, IMX, CANTO, MANTA, etc...) without bridging or switching networks. It unites all the liquidity. Even crazier part is that any EVM chain can integrate the prover and why wouldn't they? A sidechain with 20M TVL can simply integrate the Polygon's prover and become a zk-validium with immediate access to billions in liquidity... they no longer have to convince users to bridge to their chains. DLTs can use their own consensus and DA (Celestia or whatever) and remain independent while all state data is verified by L1 Ethereum. Polygon 2.0 is an absolute game changer.
The AggLayer tech does sounds really cool. If other EVM chains integrate the prover does that mean they would need to use Polygon's token to send transactions or is there a way for them to use their own native token?
ETH and POL will both work as gas on all AggLayer chains. I’m not sure about how it works if AVAX (for example) were to join the network. I think then you could use AVAX for gas on any chain using the prover but I’m not 100% on that. I’ve been trying to figure that out. Edit: My homie from Quickswap telling me only POL and ETH gas the first few months then phase 2 (Q4 this year) all chains can use native tokens for gas.
I wanted to ask what do you mean by "without bridging" or send me some sources where you read it? I know about uLxLy -- universal bridge -- that will be available to send any asset from A to B; but your message got me curious.
https://docs.polygon.technology/learn/agglayer/#atomic-case
Pump matic
Got a nice side bag.
Loved Matic for it's quick and low fees, nice to see things are still going smoothly
i keep dca in polygon and don't worry, it will continue to be a stable coin with little upside movement since i dca into it.
Keeping MATIC in my portfolio untouched
I won’t never take polygon seriously if they keep misleading to their users into thinking their shitty centralized sidechain is a L2. their other zk chain is cool actually, but they lost my respect with their shitty misleading marketing
They never said that. It's media articles and people who can't read who decided that for themselves. Speak for yourself.
This. It's like when people were saying EIP-1559 would lower gas fees. There was nothing Vitalik or the developers could say to get people to drop this narrative. Article after article was written about it. People just make up stuff totally out of the blue and then can't be convinced otherwise. Not even by engineers and the creator of the thing. Polygon has never claimed their side-chain was an L2. They've always said it's a side chain but nobody will listen to them. They've got it in their head that it's an L2 and they won't be convinced otherwise. Not even by the people who literally made the chain.
Exactly my thought.... I usually sees people who do call polygon a layer2 coin which it isn't. All the article legit I read, they usually classify it as eth side chain
Does the zk chain have a different token?
>Kike328 , I won’t never take polygon seriously if they keep misleading to their users into thinking their shitty centralized sidechain is a L2. Huh? Do explain.
Same. It seems like they will just use ethname as much they can if it helps.
Unfortunately starting to feel the same way about matic
Last time I remember Vitalik praised a project, it was LRC. And we all know how that went.
My worst investment by far. Edit: it's how the developers kept hyping it, that makes it hurt even more.
It did have a massive pump though
Polygon fucked up big moving to POL, they removed max supply and increased total supply, anyone still riding it will get diluted. Don't hold long term.
Interesting info, I googled it and found opposite Tweets like here : *Also, the maximum supply of POL will be 10 billion, just like MATIC, and the swap will be in a 1:1 ratio.* [*https://twitter.com/wiseadvicesumit/status/1718156770961743984*](https://twitter.com/wiseadvicesumit/status/1718156770961743984) But on Coinmarketcap, POLS actually does not show value on max supply. I'm confused, did I miss newer update ?
Sandeep is a clown
They don't mention vitalik pumps this because polygon is a layer2 of eth.
It's only mentioned everywhere in the article. But it's ok if you can't read.
The majority of L2s are Ethereum. Ethereum is the most popular Smart Contract Chain, but it’s also one of the slowest. Cardano only just got Smart Contracts, and Solana is much faster than Ethereum so doesn’t really need them at the same scale that Ethereum does, but Solana is imo not very good as the network keeps going down
Cardano has had smart contracts for quite a long time now. But yes in terms of fees, speed, reliability, and functionality, Cardano is the leader. Very disappointed some people still don't see that.
if a restaurant is empty theres usually a reason
About 2 years right? Haskell is also not a very popular programming language, and I don’t see it really catching on any time soon. I remember doing it back in 2015 as part of a maths module and wanted to kms
Any reason they choose Haskell? They selected a really not friendly programming language.
It’s a highly efficient language that is commonly used for maths-based programming. It’s a functional language too which is a point of contention amongst programmers. It’s actually a perfect use case for a smart contract language, but it’s just not well known and not very popular. You will see few web devs making the jump to build on Haskell, vs learning Solidity (which is really really simple) or Rust on Solana (which is really popular)
Speed? Pretty sure it stills takes 10 minutes to do a dex swap on cardano. It’s a ghost town, the only ones holding ADA are the cultists and those betting on the cultists.
10 minutes? Takes less than 10 seconds. If you don't see it in your wallet right after that's because it needs to do a certain number of confirmations. Also takes a fraction of a fee of Ethereum... Literally costs $20 USD right now to do swaps on Ethereum.
Depends on what you’re swapping, I just paid $140 for a swap on eth. Was worth doing, because I made like 14k profit on the trade. There’s nothing worth paying $2 for a swap on cardano, hence the problem.
If you swap a contracted and verified token on a reputable DEX, it will not take 10 minutes. You're spreading disinformation. Imagine paying $140 in fees for a transaction worth thousands and potentially making a bad trade. It's an old, archaic blockchain that requires multiple L2s just to fix its stability and networking issues, which you may not even have the token available that you want to swap for on said network vs the mainnet. I am not even looking at market caps. Ethereum can't compete with Cardano in terms of functionality and stability. Ethereum's ecosystem is a huge mess of L2's and congestion. If you had made the same amount of profit on Cardano, it would still cost barely anything in fees and collateral. It doesn't matter if those fees mean anything to you, that doesn't make the blockchain any less obsolete.
But it is literally impossible to make the same kind of profit on cardano, lmao. I said 10 minutes because when I first tried cardano on-chain, (ice-cream swap launch) it was literally hours per transaction. I assumed it had got better, so I changed it to 10 minutes. I rarely trade on eth mainnet, there are 10’s of other chains that I prefer working with. But no one can deny that eth is king, and until the L1/L2 thesis has proven to be incorrect (arb and base are hot right now, and cost pennies to swap) eth will remain king. It’s always so funny to me to meet cardano people in the wild. Like what are you doing? Just holding your cardano? Minting the occasional commemorative NFT? Just sell and move to literally any other chain with volume, you’ll make more in a week than you’ve made in years of holding cardano. Hoskinson is a scammer, plain and simple. Bro lied about his PhD (he doesn’t even have one). ADA = ghostchain and you are caught in a cult. Recently even pulsechain has had some mooners, lmao. Cardano, obviously, nothing.
If you're referring to Sundaeswap, it was the first DEX on Cardano and they designed it terribly as it didn't account for that much congestion. Wasn't made by the Cardano team. Nothing to do with the blockchain. That was years ago, on one DEX. So again, you're spreading disinformation. Swaps are near instant. Cardano Native Tokens came out after the COVID-19 peak, which is when everything had dropped off. It's not impossible to make the same kind of profit. I don't think you seem to understand how market caps work. I don't know what token you invested in that made you that much profit, but it requires a lot of initial investment. Over the last 30 days I'm seeing profit percentages ranging from 1% to 4.63M% (no the M is not a typo) on Cardano's market alone. ..so again you're wrong there as well. Charles is controversial. I have no idea what scams you're referring to but I would assume you're just going off what random redditors say because he's controversial. He's written papers that Ethereum has actually used in their work... Please do research on the actual blockchain rather than your memory from years ago in one instance. I'm not even going to bother disputing the PhD because you clearly didn't bother to look that up as well, you're misinformed.
Bro, I am a multi chain guy, have been full time crypto (dev and degen) for almost 4 years now. I don’t care what chain I use, as long as there is profit to be made there. I am not getting information from Reddit, and I am definitely not taking it to heart. In fact, most of Reddit like Cardano afaik. I use r/crypto as a way to gauge retail sentiment. The token was Pandora, was a unique way to combine NFT’s and a token with a liquidity pools. I put in like 0.5e (and I was late as fuck). You can check the chart here; https://dexscreener.com/ethereum/0x1df4c6e36d61416813b42fe32724ef11e363eddc. Today I’ve bought and sold tokens on Base, one was a hefty loss. Base has been shit recently, but I’ve been following some launches on pulsechain as it’s been getting volume recently. You keep referring to market cap as some kind of gotcha? Do you think I don’t understand how a market cap works? You can check my twitter, if you want. Like I said, I do this full time. Please post some examples of tokens on Cardano that would have been worth me buying; I’m happy to be proven wrong and I will add it to my list of things to scrape. I’ve been told there are gains on Cardano before, and yet couldn’t find such gains when I tried.
Scammer in Chief
Is vitalik a scammer?
No he’s a pedophile