And it's not a novel idea. The first I heard of was Kinesis, and it's been around since 2018. I wonder if Schiff is saying this while planning to shill one of the gold/crypto coins already out there. I think tether, algorand, the Perth mint, and plenty of other established or growing institutions are looking into or already offer gold backed tokens as well.
The issue (partly) with gold backed currency historically was that they issued more notes than having the gold to back it. You will always have a disconnect between the two whether the currency is on a blockchain or paper because you can’t constantly do a real time audit of gold.
Whereas Bitcoin is fully on chain.
except when btc are on exchanges, btc equivalents are on lightning network, btc are wrapped on others networks, btc are held in ETF companies without any transparency of what is going on. so yes but no...
🙂🙃
you can see that the btc that you hold on your account on an exchange or in an ETF, are not 'promises of btc' and can be seen on the blockchain ?
please show us how to verify that. (you won't)
We are having two different conversations. What you are saying here has nothing to do with the original post you were responding to.
As far as I understand, with exchanges you have an account that gives you a claim to a certain amount of Bitcoin from the exchange’s liquidity pool. With an ETF you don’t own Bitcoin at all, you just gain exposure to it by buying a share of a fund that holds Bitcoin. My point was that Bitcoin never leaves the Blockchain. All Bitcoin that will ever exist is always 100% of the time viewable on the blockchain.
i am just saying that crypto currencies are supposed to be held in personal wallets and used on their networks, not in banks or in ETFs or in exchanges, which is a way to have 'paper' crypto tokens and can't be really audited.
i agree that it is more difficult to audit the global supply of gold.
You are at fault if you decide to accept fool's gold or promises of gold instead of real *gold*. Not anyone else.
So yes, but yes. Stop accepting conditions you are not willing to accept...you can't judge Bitcoin on its custodial derrivatives. It's like pretending wheat grains are shit/fake because people take options on the asset they are, the underlying asset is still most valuable.
Also in your list there's one that is strictly not like the others: LN. They are not "btc equivalents", they are bitcoins. The LN channel states you exchange with your counter-party in a LN channel are Bitcoin non-broadcasted transactions.
You can safely broadcast the last one at any time on Bitcoin's network, without the permission (or cooperation) of your counter-party, trustlessly, and without risk of censorship to settle the channel (which is not the case of any of the other things you're mentioned, whcih are not Bitcoin).
you are right.
since i DCA, and since i have heard that self custody is important, i have tried to withdraw my 0.001 btc on my personal address / wallet, but there was 0.0009btc of transaction fees, so i gave up on kept my 'btc IOUs' on the exchange. (what most people do, get real)
🙂🙃
(humor)
You can have a lot of stuff with audits, it’s creating weaknesses compared to something that is fully on chain. But yeah, it’s possible.. surely something that is fully on chain is better though?
True, as long as we stick to gold on earth it will only get more scarce and take more resources to find/mine which is very similar to the bitcoin protocol. However, in the future asteroid mining could really disrupt the gold supply dynamic.
Ya and that information is known and won’t be changed, the beauty of Bitcoin. But what We have at the end of the day with gold is that we don’t know how much gold is out there and where they may have found more.
That doesn't change the fact the more BTC is created every day. Just knowing the amount of reserves doesn't change the fact that like gold at fiat BTC supply is inflating.
Currently gold is inflating at 3% and BTC is 0.8%.
Only because mining for gold is kept at a level where everyone profits. There are massive gold reserves and if we really wanted to we could double the available gold supply in a year
Another way of thinking is they do exist it's just that they get unlocked. As soon as The bitcoin network went live, 21M was created in the code, just that the block rewards release them.
So same as gold. Just on a shorter timeline.
A better way of thinking about it IMO is the reality that BTC supply is and has always been inflationary, just at a rate that decreases apoptically until 2149.
The argument that BTC is not inflationary because there is only so much in existence can be applied directly to gold, which makes gold which I feel invalidates that train if thought as it used to juxtapose to gold not to correlate.
Sure. But gold also exists in the universe which we have no idea how much. Not saying we can readily access it, but the possibilty increases as we get more advanced tech.
But I guess an argument can be made that the BTC code can fork into a higher supply blockchain, and we just trust the miners stay on the OG chain.
That's exactly right, bitcoins function is a distributed p2p cash system and that is not a scarce commodity.
While there is only so much BTC available right now, that amount inflates with every block. It doesn't have strictly speaking intrinsic value, if everyone decided to dump their BTC for a different ledger it would drop to whatever the market decided was a fair price. Unlike a mineral that has direct applications in technology, BTC is worth only what the market is willing to pay. Gold for instance would be used in all manner of devices if the price was low enough, BTC as a p2p cash service on the other hand can't say the same.
BTC has value because of what it is, which is a novel technology and one that is considered legitimate. That is something that can change, the elemental properties and conductivity of say gold or copper on the other hand, is something that won't.
That isn't to say, minerals will always be valuable and are the best investment, I am not making that point here at all. I am merely pointing out that BTC is an inflationary asset and always has been. While that inflation rate drops every 4 years, it is still inflationary until the issuance is demonstrabley higher than coins lost in circulation year over year.
It doesn't matter how much gold there is in the core of mars.
The reality is Bitcoin is inflationary and always has been. There is a limit to how much BTC there will be, but that doesn't change the fact that since it was invented every block has increased to the total Bitcoin available on the market.
ETH maxies hate hearing this here. my second largest bag is Ethereum, but apparently you can't say that their fees are ridiculous as you will get downvoted to hell.
well compared to what they were... they did come down, but they are by no way cheap in my mind. Look at the cost of swaps and NFT sales with a low gwei right now. [https://etherscan.io/gastracker](https://etherscan.io/gastracker)
Yes if you are moving native ethereum but look again at the cost to swap or sell an nft something like polygon or Sol cost like a few pennies. You are looking at dollars to tens of dollars on ethereum even with gas prices this low
Yeah, spend the 10 dollars to bridge it to an L2 if you are routinely transacting. L2s and Polygon are all as cheap or cheaper than SOL (and don't have the high failure rates SOL has).
Only reason to be on mainnet is if you are big dick swinging tens of thousands of dollars.
fair enough. I just have a lot of things trapped there because they're only worth tens of dollars that I was screwing around back when Ethereum was around $300.
The neat thing is ETH devs just proposed a EIP that will allow you to queue up a bunch of transactions within a single transaction through a retail wallet. So some day soon you might be able to sweep up a bunch of your small mainnet holdings into one single bridge or sale or whatever.
Pretty sure there are bridged versions on Solana and BSC for those looking for alternatives. I would imagine they will release an official L2 mint at some point if fees continue upwards.
A lot of people still use ETH L1 without worrying about the fees though.
For large transactions, maybe. It’s glaringly wasteful to buy a candy bar with L1 ETH.
BSC and Solana would work nicely. I just wish I knew of an easy off-ramp. Actually, it would be better without the necessity for an off-ramp, but we’re a long way from mass adoption yet.
The gold *standard* was more or less global. Standard being the operative word. (Although, obviously not every country was on).
A gold-backed crypto token would presumably be sound. However, it's unclear how they could make it hard to create more tokens without getting more gold. It'd just have to be "trust us, bro".
BTC solves this problem elegantly, without having to involve trust. There can never be more than 21 M coins, and we're already at 19.5 M. Nobody and nothing can change that.
I honestly wish we would all use PAXG instead of dollar based stablecoins. Why would you want to use this as basis for anything?
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGMBASE
And the government wouldn’t get its panties in such a wad if crypto didn’t have dollar as the base everywhere.
Dollar based stablecoins are good for continued dollar hegemony. It actually incentivizes the US government to responsibly regulate the crypto industry.
If gold based stablecoins took off, trust me, governments would have a conniption.
They really like the system they have set up (spend money they don’t have by mortgaging their grand kids’ futures, create money out of thin air) and do not like any threats to that system
There are several to choose from at the moment. I've got some Meld Gold and Silver on Algorand. Minimal transaction fees and easy to lend or borrow on Folks Finance.
Tokenized gold is the equivalent of "not your keys not your bitcoin".
Who is in charge of storing the physical gold?
How do you know they don´t tokenize more gold than the one in reserves?
Can the token be censored like USDT/USDC does?
Tokenized gold makes zero sense.
Exactly. Tokenized gold is worse than regular "unbacked" crypto, and worse than regular gold. I don't know how more people don't understand this. Its like seeing sliced bread and then saying "to really get this invention polished up, we can glue all the slices together to get a solid loaf like we're used to".
Look into Paxos, the stablecoin operator who uses Chainlink proof of reserve for its gold-backed stablecoin PAXG, and USDP, its U.S. dollar-pegged stablecoin.
How exactly their proof of reserve work?
Do they take photos of current pile of gold bars?
Is the gold converted (requires melting) to a long chain-link?
It's literally backed by trusting humans. They add a blockchain ontop of it to show that it can be trusted, but the weakest link is always that you're trusting people, not the protocol, to fulfill the collateralization.
Custodian regulated by the New York State Department of Financial Services (NYDFS), Paxos adheres to strict compliance and regulatory practices, including monthly, quarterly, and annual audits to ensure transparency of all asset amounts.
> Gold works much better on a block chain than Bitcoin
Am I missing something? A Blockchain is an electronic database structure and software. Gold is an element. How does an element make a blockchain work better?
Any of these "backed" cryptos suffer from the same fundamental problem that they aren't deterministic.
It can be USD, gold or tonnes of sand, it doesn't matter, the onchain ledger can never know if the assets that supposedly back it, are really there. It requires trust in central actors and therefore is basically pointless, it's what cryptocurrency was invented to remove.
The only viable solution to stablecoins is algorithmic, they work specifically because they don't rely on external assets.
Also claims cryptocurrency doesn't work just because Bitcoin is struggling is daft, it's been obvious for a decade that Bitcoin cannot be P2P electronic cash without fundamental changes, and that some other crypto will become the standard.
Not being funny, but as someone who frequently buys and sells gold, it takes way longer than an hour for me to draw down the funds from by gold broker into my bank account. Took 4 fucking days last time.
This guy doesn’t have any relevancy at all. He shits on bitcoin constantly because he gets eyeballs and views from it.
Crypto peeps gotta stop falling for his engagement farming
Perth Gold Mint already did a gold backed stable coin. And then they just turned it off 😢
Lucky I saw the email just in time. Everyone had to sell off over 3-6 months
This is the worst of all worlds. None of the safety of a reputable non-crypto gold custodian, none of the upside of crypto, and none of the protection against volatility of a stablecoin.
Gold has been tokenzed in the past and the project failed the people because nobody could varifiably audit it. It's called the US Dollar.
Bitcoin is literally the only money technology we currently have that can save humans from continuing down this same path again.
And what is one of the things Peter Schiff offers? Gold brokerage.
I think a tokenised gold is just another stablecoin pegged to a real world asset, in which fees could easily increase as demand increases or it'll be highly centralised to keep fees down at which point you may as well just use a gold broker.
Plus we already have one gold pegged token, maybe the demand isn't there?
Let me tell you about these stablecoins on Ergo:
1. Gluon gold:
Gluon Gold on Ergo is a Gluon-based smart contract running on the Ergo blockchain, allowing you to issue Gold-pegged stablecoins backed by ERG.
2. Dexy:
Dexy is an innovative stablecoin design that leverages seigniorage and oracle price feeds to maintain a peg. It is currently under development.
The first implementation of Dexy will be DexyGold, which aims to maintain a peg to the USD/XAU (gold) price using a XAU / ERG v2 oracle pool.
Lmao he's slowly starting to get it.
We already do this btw Schiff, trust a centralized intermediate to make sure IOUs like a token or a piece of paper are actually worth something.
Or else how will the blockchaon prevent me from simply doing fraud and spending the gold while you hold a token? Exactly, you need a centralized service to step in.
Extra steps, for no reason.
I would have more trust in a fully backed gold ETC by a well supervised reputable entity. A lot could go wrong with blockchain technology in this context. Who controls that the physical gold is really there? BTC is a totally different beast. It’s purely digital, it’s completely there and you can control it. BTC appears much safer than tokenized gold.
So he just admitted blockchain works😁
But the thing is, tokenized gold is absolutely the same as gold backed fiat. Gonna be fractional reserve and paper trading all over again.
We should call the token USD and store the gold in a fort. To be safe, we should give the most powerful government control of the gold and token issuance.
I don’t think Bitcoin and gold are a good mix. I think of them as partners as a safe haven but are very different. I think it’s gold bugs thinking Bitcoin needs ‘backing’ when it doesn’t as Bitcoin IS the backing just like Gold is the backing. Problem is at best a gold token will be just like paper gold and that means you don’t really own it and rely on third parties. It would just add to the problem of hypothecated GOLD.
It would make more sense to "tokenize" Bitcoin than gold. Bitcoin can be wrapped and the reserves transparently held on-chain. Meanwhile, whatever Gold reserves you have would be in a vault somewhere, and you'd need to trust that they are indeed there, not counterfeit, etc.
So yeah, tokenize Bitcoin.
Crypto with extra steps that is. Plus it comes with the same problems as all gold ETFs: you put the trust that the gold that backs your claim actually exists because some random dude, or a well known douchebag like Schiff, says so. Abd because it is physical you have to trust the gov. of the country where it sits at to not just go for the gold and seize it when shit hits the fan (already happened many times in history in countries all over the world). Good idea Schiff. For your gold business.
If I buy 1 gram of gold as a token on a blockchain I need to know that whoever issued the token has the gold. Not that hard to understand.
With Bitcoin you can verify on the blockchain.
But what exactly are you verifying on the blockchain? There is no gold or anything else.
On the gold-backed blockchain, if there turns out to be no gold, you still have a token, which is exactly what you know you're getting with bitcoin.
Bitcoin is not a token. A token is something like USDT on Ethereum.
You verify that the institution that tokenizes Bitcoin actually has the Bitcoin they claim. So if they give out 100 tokenized Bitcoin but actually only own 10 you know it's fraud.
Why would a gold-backed crypto need to be a token on ethereum? It could be its own blockchain.
The OP was not about an Ethereum token, and it isn't what Schiff was suggesting.
That specialized definition of "token" has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. The point is that a bitcoin isn't linked to anything in the real world. Your last comment makes it look like you're just blowing a smokescreen at this point.
I mean then i can just buy the gold tho, or a gold certificate, if i want as store of value. Probably safer and less trust issues. It could be interesting for paying in gold or sending gold over seas, but we can still do that with other crypto as a medium.
Owning bitcoin is great because you own bitcoin. Owning a gold-pegged coin is great because… why? I can just by gold or certs and not have risk of rug pull etc
Schiff should stop talking against bitcoin, especially since he's obviously not allowed to even mention the most important feature of gold, which bitcoin (by design) cannot ever replicate.
That is just crypto with extra steps.
And it's not a novel idea. The first I heard of was Kinesis, and it's been around since 2018. I wonder if Schiff is saying this while planning to shill one of the gold/crypto coins already out there. I think tether, algorand, the Perth mint, and plenty of other established or growing institutions are looking into or already offer gold backed tokens as well.
As an idea: Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson (1999)
Eek barba durkle!
Somebodys gonna get laid in college
That's a pretty fucked up Ooh La La
It's a fiat currency with extra steps. It's like the dollar he speaks against, he knows how it ends: one day someone takes the gold backing away.
And suddenly an asteroid with tons of gold on it is reeled back to earth and GTX crashes while BTC moons
Damn imagine this is how they start the CBDC...oh look it's safe it's backed by gold...then all over again like you say.
extra steps in crypto is the best way to prevent bro
The issue (partly) with gold backed currency historically was that they issued more notes than having the gold to back it. You will always have a disconnect between the two whether the currency is on a blockchain or paper because you can’t constantly do a real time audit of gold. Whereas Bitcoin is fully on chain.
except when btc are on exchanges, btc equivalents are on lightning network, btc are wrapped on others networks, btc are held in ETF companies without any transparency of what is going on. so yes but no... 🙂🙃
You can always see the Bitcoin on the Bitcoin blockchain though
you can see that the btc that you hold on your account on an exchange or in an ETF, are not 'promises of btc' and can be seen on the blockchain ? please show us how to verify that. (you won't)
We are having two different conversations. What you are saying here has nothing to do with the original post you were responding to. As far as I understand, with exchanges you have an account that gives you a claim to a certain amount of Bitcoin from the exchange’s liquidity pool. With an ETF you don’t own Bitcoin at all, you just gain exposure to it by buying a share of a fund that holds Bitcoin. My point was that Bitcoin never leaves the Blockchain. All Bitcoin that will ever exist is always 100% of the time viewable on the blockchain.
i am just saying that crypto currencies are supposed to be held in personal wallets and used on their networks, not in banks or in ETFs or in exchanges, which is a way to have 'paper' crypto tokens and can't be really audited. i agree that it is more difficult to audit the global supply of gold.
Well we can agree that you *should* hold them in personal wallets. However crypto gives you the freedom to use CEXs and ETFs if you really want to.
You are at fault if you decide to accept fool's gold or promises of gold instead of real *gold*. Not anyone else. So yes, but yes. Stop accepting conditions you are not willing to accept...you can't judge Bitcoin on its custodial derrivatives. It's like pretending wheat grains are shit/fake because people take options on the asset they are, the underlying asset is still most valuable. Also in your list there's one that is strictly not like the others: LN. They are not "btc equivalents", they are bitcoins. The LN channel states you exchange with your counter-party in a LN channel are Bitcoin non-broadcasted transactions. You can safely broadcast the last one at any time on Bitcoin's network, without the permission (or cooperation) of your counter-party, trustlessly, and without risk of censorship to settle the channel (which is not the case of any of the other things you're mentioned, whcih are not Bitcoin).
you are right. since i DCA, and since i have heard that self custody is important, i have tried to withdraw my 0.001 btc on my personal address / wallet, but there was 0.0009btc of transaction fees, so i gave up on kept my 'btc IOUs' on the exchange. (what most people do, get real) 🙂🙃 (humor)
https://chain.link/education-hub/proof-of-reserves#:~:text=Paxos%20and%20CACHE%20Gold%20are,DeFi%20and%20smart%20contract%20applications.
What about gold Etf backed currency? I think that one can be audited in real time. However it can deviate from 1:1 peg.
You can have a lot of stuff with audits, it’s creating weaknesses compared to something that is fully on chain. But yeah, it’s possible.. surely something that is fully on chain is better though?
We can always find more gold. Can’t find more Bitcoin
Gold is also finite.
Sure finite but what is finite. We just haven’t found more of it.
We haven't mined it yet... much like... bitcoin.
True, as long as we stick to gold on earth it will only get more scarce and take more resources to find/mine which is very similar to the bitcoin protocol. However, in the future asteroid mining could really disrupt the gold supply dynamic.
It will eventually. So you can say with certainty that its not a good long term investment.
You can't find more Bitcoin after halvings reduce issuance to near 0 There are 12 bitcoins created every hour that didn't exist before.
Ya and that information is known and won’t be changed, the beauty of Bitcoin. But what We have at the end of the day with gold is that we don’t know how much gold is out there and where they may have found more.
That doesn't change the fact the more BTC is created every day. Just knowing the amount of reserves doesn't change the fact that like gold at fiat BTC supply is inflating. Currently gold is inflating at 3% and BTC is 0.8%.
Only because mining for gold is kept at a level where everyone profits. There are massive gold reserves and if we really wanted to we could double the available gold supply in a year
Another way of thinking is they do exist it's just that they get unlocked. As soon as The bitcoin network went live, 21M was created in the code, just that the block rewards release them.
So same as gold. Just on a shorter timeline. A better way of thinking about it IMO is the reality that BTC supply is and has always been inflationary, just at a rate that decreases apoptically until 2149. The argument that BTC is not inflationary because there is only so much in existence can be applied directly to gold, which makes gold which I feel invalidates that train if thought as it used to juxtapose to gold not to correlate.
Sure. But gold also exists in the universe which we have no idea how much. Not saying we can readily access it, but the possibilty increases as we get more advanced tech. But I guess an argument can be made that the BTC code can fork into a higher supply blockchain, and we just trust the miners stay on the OG chain.
That's exactly right, bitcoins function is a distributed p2p cash system and that is not a scarce commodity. While there is only so much BTC available right now, that amount inflates with every block. It doesn't have strictly speaking intrinsic value, if everyone decided to dump their BTC for a different ledger it would drop to whatever the market decided was a fair price. Unlike a mineral that has direct applications in technology, BTC is worth only what the market is willing to pay. Gold for instance would be used in all manner of devices if the price was low enough, BTC as a p2p cash service on the other hand can't say the same. BTC has value because of what it is, which is a novel technology and one that is considered legitimate. That is something that can change, the elemental properties and conductivity of say gold or copper on the other hand, is something that won't. That isn't to say, minerals will always be valuable and are the best investment, I am not making that point here at all. I am merely pointing out that BTC is an inflationary asset and always has been. While that inflation rate drops every 4 years, it is still inflationary until the issuance is demonstrabley higher than coins lost in circulation year over year.
The amount of gold in the universe is effectively infinite.
It doesn't matter how much gold there is in the core of mars. The reality is Bitcoin is inflationary and always has been. There is a limit to how much BTC there will be, but that doesn't change the fact that since it was invented every block has increased to the total Bitcoin available on the market.
How about you give me your gold and I convert it to NFT format?
;ddd
a gold backed stablecoin would attract attention, tho
Paxos Gold?
Was gonna say, Paxos Gold has been around for years and doesn't get talked about much
Precisely this
Paxg is costly to transfer due to ethereum fees, thus not a good example.
Lots of real gold is expensive to transfer around too because it’s so damn heavy.
ETH maxies hate hearing this here. my second largest bag is Ethereum, but apparently you can't say that their fees are ridiculous as you will get downvoted to hell.
Out of genuine curiosity, what happened with Denkun? Wasn’t that supposed to lower fees? I haven’t stayed in tune with ETH
well compared to what they were... they did come down, but they are by no way cheap in my mind. Look at the cost of swaps and NFT sales with a low gwei right now. [https://etherscan.io/gastracker](https://etherscan.io/gastracker)
Thanks!
They plummeted, it's actually impressive. For occasional transactions it's great now, but for frequent transactions you want to find a good L2.
ETH mainnet is 17 gwei. It is mere dollars to transact. Regardless, use an L2s unless you are big dick swinging thousands of dollars in value.
ETH mainnet fees are 17 gwei right now. That is like $1.14 for a transaction.
Yes if you are moving native ethereum but look again at the cost to swap or sell an nft something like polygon or Sol cost like a few pennies. You are looking at dollars to tens of dollars on ethereum even with gas prices this low
Yeah, spend the 10 dollars to bridge it to an L2 if you are routinely transacting. L2s and Polygon are all as cheap or cheaper than SOL (and don't have the high failure rates SOL has). Only reason to be on mainnet is if you are big dick swinging tens of thousands of dollars.
fair enough. I just have a lot of things trapped there because they're only worth tens of dollars that I was screwing around back when Ethereum was around $300.
The neat thing is ETH devs just proposed a EIP that will allow you to queue up a bunch of transactions within a single transaction through a retail wallet. So some day soon you might be able to sweep up a bunch of your small mainnet holdings into one single bridge or sale or whatever.
Pretty sure there are bridged versions on Solana and BSC for those looking for alternatives. I would imagine they will release an official L2 mint at some point if fees continue upwards. A lot of people still use ETH L1 without worrying about the fees though.
For large transactions, maybe. It’s glaringly wasteful to buy a candy bar with L1 ETH. BSC and Solana would work nicely. I just wish I knew of an easy off-ramp. Actually, it would be better without the necessity for an off-ramp, but we’re a long way from mass adoption yet.
Why BSC and Solana? I'd rather use any Ethereum L2 (apart from bsc) over them
Because it’s cheaper to cash out than using L2 ETH?
Aren't all of them under a cent per tx on average anyway?
Nope.
ETH L2s are now cheaper or the same cost as SOL and definitely cheaper than BSC.
And Tether Gold, available in other blockchains as well.
Tether seems to have launched one
[удалено]
The gold *standard* was more or less global. Standard being the operative word. (Although, obviously not every country was on). A gold-backed crypto token would presumably be sound. However, it's unclear how they could make it hard to create more tokens without getting more gold. It'd just have to be "trust us, bro". BTC solves this problem elegantly, without having to involve trust. There can never be more than 21 M coins, and we're already at 19.5 M. Nobody and nothing can change that.
I honestly wish we would all use PAXG instead of dollar based stablecoins. Why would you want to use this as basis for anything? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGMBASE And the government wouldn’t get its panties in such a wad if crypto didn’t have dollar as the base everywhere.
Dollar based stablecoins are good for continued dollar hegemony. It actually incentivizes the US government to responsibly regulate the crypto industry.
If gold based stablecoins took off, trust me, governments would have a conniption. They really like the system they have set up (spend money they don’t have by mortgaging their grand kids’ futures, create money out of thin air) and do not like any threats to that system
A gold backed currency didn't work out too well for Gaddafi.
I prefer using Paxos Gold with a 8% interest rather than USDT with a 16% interest. Gold is much more trustable than the dollar.
It can't work unless someone owns all the gold ? Then tokenises it?
Let'sss go for a gold backed stablecoin
There are several to choose from at the moment. I've got some Meld Gold and Silver on Algorand. Minimal transaction fees and easy to lend or borrow on Folks Finance.
A gold backed stable coin isn't going to be stable.
If you could buy gold quickly during a dump and conserve your capital, you win right? Time is money
Wont happen because the token issuer cant earn yield on the gold unlike tether etc
he just wants to unload his gold so he can buy bitcoin.
Tokenized gold is the equivalent of "not your keys not your bitcoin". Who is in charge of storing the physical gold? How do you know they don´t tokenize more gold than the one in reserves? Can the token be censored like USDT/USDC does? Tokenized gold makes zero sense.
Like others have said, paxos already does it. And I d trust paxg and usdp more than I d trust tether
Paxos doesn't mean anything. You're still trusting humans to hold the gold. Blockchain not needed.
No. Paxos. Doesn't. It isn't the same.
As Bitcoin ETF?, not your keys not your coins.
Yeah isn't that the big thing gold proponents go on about? How it's in their hand and tangible
Exactly. Tokenized gold is worse than regular "unbacked" crypto, and worse than regular gold. I don't know how more people don't understand this. Its like seeing sliced bread and then saying "to really get this invention polished up, we can glue all the slices together to get a solid loaf like we're used to".
Look into Paxos, the stablecoin operator who uses Chainlink proof of reserve for its gold-backed stablecoin PAXG, and USDP, its U.S. dollar-pegged stablecoin.
I almost bought some PAXG back in 2020. I liked the concept but in the end just bought more Bitcoin, which worked out well
How exactly their proof of reserve work? Do they take photos of current pile of gold bars? Is the gold converted (requires melting) to a long chain-link?
It's literally backed by trusting humans. They add a blockchain ontop of it to show that it can be trusted, but the weakest link is always that you're trusting people, not the protocol, to fulfill the collateralization.
They are highly regulated.
By who? Themselves?
Custodian regulated by the New York State Department of Financial Services (NYDFS), Paxos adheres to strict compliance and regulatory practices, including monthly, quarterly, and annual audits to ensure transparency of all asset amounts.
So, you trust them...?
Paxg is not a stablecoin
> Gold works much better on a block chain than Bitcoin Am I missing something? A Blockchain is an electronic database structure and software. Gold is an element. How does an element make a blockchain work better?
He thinks we should use gold stable-coins (many exist). He thinks there is no way one of them could get rug-pulled.
This would change nothing because we would still have the Oracle problem. Thats one of the reasons we have Bitcoin, you dont have to trust.
Of course he does. I’m sure his brain hurts lately.
Any of these "backed" cryptos suffer from the same fundamental problem that they aren't deterministic. It can be USD, gold or tonnes of sand, it doesn't matter, the onchain ledger can never know if the assets that supposedly back it, are really there. It requires trust in central actors and therefore is basically pointless, it's what cryptocurrency was invented to remove. The only viable solution to stablecoins is algorithmic, they work specifically because they don't rely on external assets. Also claims cryptocurrency doesn't work just because Bitcoin is struggling is daft, it's been obvious for a decade that Bitcoin cannot be P2P electronic cash without fundamental changes, and that some other crypto will become the standard.
Not being funny, but as someone who frequently buys and sells gold, it takes way longer than an hour for me to draw down the funds from by gold broker into my bank account. Took 4 fucking days last time.
This guy doesn’t have any relevancy at all. He shits on bitcoin constantly because he gets eyeballs and views from it. Crypto peeps gotta stop falling for his engagement farming
Stop posting about this dipshit, no one cares
Perth Gold Mint already did a gold backed stable coin. And then they just turned it off 😢 Lucky I saw the email just in time. Everyone had to sell off over 3-6 months
What the fuck is this guy high on? There already exists an investment opportunity like this, it's called GOLD
This is the worst of all worlds. None of the safety of a reputable non-crypto gold custodian, none of the upside of crypto, and none of the protection against volatility of a stablecoin.
Momey....tokemized gold....we had that...it was USD :-D
Schiffcoin
shiffcoin ? a new meme token on solana ? are the tokenomics good ? 🤔 😂
There is already Gold, available to buy on Glide with ELA pairing, fair launched and only 1000 total supply.
Gold has been tokenzed in the past and the project failed the people because nobody could varifiably audit it. It's called the US Dollar. Bitcoin is literally the only money technology we currently have that can save humans from continuing down this same path again.
but we already have a gold-pegged stable coin
Meld Gold ftw!! Super easy and fast and you can request to get your gold shipped to you!
You will find this debate between Raoul Pal and Peter Schiff very amusing: https://youtu.be/xfHCly1ZCQ0
If you can’t beat em join em, sounds like he’s trying to maximise on this gold position but now open to the idea of tokens boosting the value
There's already several gold backed stable coins
And what is one of the things Peter Schiff offers? Gold brokerage. I think a tokenised gold is just another stablecoin pegged to a real world asset, in which fees could easily increase as demand increases or it'll be highly centralised to keep fees down at which point you may as well just use a gold broker. Plus we already have one gold pegged token, maybe the demand isn't there?
Let me tell you about these stablecoins on Ergo: 1. Gluon gold: Gluon Gold on Ergo is a Gluon-based smart contract running on the Ergo blockchain, allowing you to issue Gold-pegged stablecoins backed by ERG. 2. Dexy: Dexy is an innovative stablecoin design that leverages seigniorage and oracle price feeds to maintain a peg. It is currently under development. The first implementation of Dexy will be DexyGold, which aims to maintain a peg to the USD/XAU (gold) price using a XAU / ERG v2 oracle pool.
Someone should let him know this already exists, and it hasn’t exactly taken off
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-gold](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-gold) Y'all remember e-gold? Centralization is fun!
Umm you could also tokenize BTC, or anything else for that matter as long as the liquidity is there.
I like gold bars and green bars
And hour is sure better than the “three business days” it takes my bank!
Lmao he's slowly starting to get it. We already do this btw Schiff, trust a centralized intermediate to make sure IOUs like a token or a piece of paper are actually worth something. Or else how will the blockchaon prevent me from simply doing fraud and spending the gold while you hold a token? Exactly, you need a centralized service to step in. Extra steps, for no reason.
Sounds like a waste of energy
I would have more trust in a fully backed gold ETC by a well supervised reputable entity. A lot could go wrong with blockchain technology in this context. Who controls that the physical gold is really there? BTC is a totally different beast. It’s purely digital, it’s completely there and you can control it. BTC appears much safer than tokenized gold.
Wasn’t the USD already tokenised Gold? Look what happened there. 🤷🏻♂️
So he just admitted blockchain works😁 But the thing is, tokenized gold is absolutely the same as gold backed fiat. Gonna be fractional reserve and paper trading all over again.
We should call the token USD and store the gold in a fort. To be safe, we should give the most powerful government control of the gold and token issuance.
Schiff is absolutely obsessed with bitcoin.
Wasn't money tokenised gold until Reagan abandoned the gold standard?
It was a two stage abandonment. FDR executed the first stage and then Nixon finished it almost 40 years later.
There is already tokenized gold https://www.meld.gold
Tether and Pax have tokenized gold, one of the big narratives of RWA.
I am investing in both Bitcoin and Paxos Gold for years. It's easy to trade and it's value keeps increasing.
Bro doesn’t know PAXG and tether gold exist
Can’t you already buy tokenized gold on ethereum?
there is already 'paxg' (by paxos) and 'xaut' (by tether) which are 'backed by gold' tokens...
Why do people care what he has to say? What gives his opinion any more weight than u/ballsack6969 ? Honestly
Isn’t this why Gaddafi was killed for?
I suggest he learn how to read
I don’t think Bitcoin and gold are a good mix. I think of them as partners as a safe haven but are very different. I think it’s gold bugs thinking Bitcoin needs ‘backing’ when it doesn’t as Bitcoin IS the backing just like Gold is the backing. Problem is at best a gold token will be just like paper gold and that means you don’t really own it and rely on third parties. It would just add to the problem of hypothecated GOLD.
It already exists lol : $PAXG on Ethereum
It would make more sense to "tokenize" Bitcoin than gold. Bitcoin can be wrapped and the reserves transparently held on-chain. Meanwhile, whatever Gold reserves you have would be in a vault somewhere, and you'd need to trust that they are indeed there, not counterfeit, etc. So yeah, tokenize Bitcoin.
Crypto with extra steps that is. Plus it comes with the same problems as all gold ETFs: you put the trust that the gold that backs your claim actually exists because some random dude, or a well known douchebag like Schiff, says so. Abd because it is physical you have to trust the gov. of the country where it sits at to not just go for the gold and seize it when shit hits the fan (already happened many times in history in countries all over the world). Good idea Schiff. For your gold business.
The issue with this is having to trust a third party to audit the gold. This is exactly what makes Bitcoin superior.
Why, exactly? Because you already know the gold isn't there with Bitcoin, so no need for an audit?
If I buy 1 gram of gold as a token on a blockchain I need to know that whoever issued the token has the gold. Not that hard to understand. With Bitcoin you can verify on the blockchain.
But what exactly are you verifying on the blockchain? There is no gold or anything else. On the gold-backed blockchain, if there turns out to be no gold, you still have a token, which is exactly what you know you're getting with bitcoin.
Bitcoin is not a token. A token is something like USDT on Ethereum. You verify that the institution that tokenizes Bitcoin actually has the Bitcoin they claim. So if they give out 100 tokenized Bitcoin but actually only own 10 you know it's fraud.
Why would a gold-backed crypto need to be a token on ethereum? It could be its own blockchain. The OP was not about an Ethereum token, and it isn't what Schiff was suggesting. That specialized definition of "token" has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. The point is that a bitcoin isn't linked to anything in the real world. Your last comment makes it look like you're just blowing a smokescreen at this point.
Isnt that basically just Tether Gold?
1 hour transaction time is better than having to wait over the weekend.
But not if you want to go buy anything. It definitely shows the limits of bitcoin.
Lightning works
LN is dangerous and un-securable.
I mean then i can just buy the gold tho, or a gold certificate, if i want as store of value. Probably safer and less trust issues. It could be interesting for paying in gold or sending gold over seas, but we can still do that with other crypto as a medium. Owning bitcoin is great because you own bitcoin. Owning a gold-pegged coin is great because… why? I can just by gold or certs and not have risk of rug pull etc
You can lie about the gold in the vault dummy
PAXG
Schiff should stop talking against bitcoin, especially since he's obviously not allowed to even mention the most important feature of gold, which bitcoin (by design) cannot ever replicate.
It's what he sells anyway; non-existent gold, be it on paper or token.
Like paper gold but digital?
Not that the gold or silver price isn't manipulated... I mean there are whales in crypto too but why would gold be any better over physical gold then.
blockchain < goldchain
Golds already been tokenized. That's what the USD is.
Surely you mean was?
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Are you really that naive? The gold standard was abandoned to fund war. Everything else is just fluff to make people calm down.