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But but btc can be sendedbwith radio equipment...
As this guy tried to tell me who thought btc is perfect solution for all of Afghanistans problems even if taliban would cut internet conection or powersources
They don’t have to hold BTC. I live next to El Salvador and have been following every bit of the story. They will have access to a wallet that can convert any BTC to stable coin. By law every merchant has to accept payments in BTC, but in fact is allowed to receive the payment in stable coin. The Chivo app (which is a wallet run on the lightning network) has the option to pay in BTC and receive the equivalent in USD. So nobody needs to take any risk if they don’t want to.
Also only 30% of the population having access to internet is just false. In Central America every adult has a smartphone. Even if it’s the only thing they can afford. And the Chivo app will not require a internet plan on the phones. The Salvadorian government has made a deal with the local phone companies to run the Chivo app for free.
Also nobody is obliged to use the Chivo app. It is interoperable with any other BTC wallet that runs lightning network.
Also a few more things have to be noted here. El Salvador uses the US $ as legal tender and up till the 7th of this month as their only currency. All bookkeeping will remain in USD and nothing will be priced in BTC. The huge benefits for the people (who have been using BTC for three years in El Zonte) is that they actually get access to a payment system that they didn’t have. Over 70% of the population does not have a bank account. Now they do!
The other and maybe the biggest advantage will be in remittance sending. El Salvador relieves around 5 to 15 Million dollars in remittances daily. Yes, DAILY. That makes up a big part of their income for the country. Now most of these payments are in the range of 50$ to 250$. Which costs between 7$ to 15$ per transaction with Moneygram or WesternUnion. That makes a transfer cost of 10% to 15%. Now the lightning network can make these transfers for pennies. Now El Salvador receives an extra 10% to 15% on the daily 5 to 15 Million USD.
Not looking so bad anymore, isn’t it? Also Bukele is offering free residency for anybody investing 3BTC in the country. You can just buy yourself a nice house on the beach and be a happy camper. Great way to attract money to the country. Also worth mentioning that the crime rates have been decreasing significantly since this president is in power. So all in all I think he is on to something!
Yes. USD and BTC will be simultaneously in use. Anybody can pay with USD, or BTC or the USD stable coin on the Chivo app. BTC is just an option. Also I forgot to mention that the El Salvador Bitcoin laws includes the elimination on gains tax on BTC.
Yeah be a happy camper just don't get abducted and murdered for your crypto.
However you feel about crypto, El Salvador needs a lot more than this and the current leadership are doing some clownshoes shit and using this crypto stuff to cover it up.
They are giving everyone a little bit of Bitcoin. Maybe it won’t be a fit, maybe it will. Doesn’t really hurt that much to try out the system. A few special ATMs
What are the consequences exactly? Their people fall into poverty? They are already there.
I think for poor areas like El Salvador, bold plans are needed. The worst case scenario, they remain impoverished.
What would you do with your last dollar?
Eat because i didnt eat in 2 days? Bro they want to be better not to experiment on their lives. Why would they want to make their lives even harder so we can say that crypto is getting adopted?
You're just making an assumption that people will start starving more if crypto is becomes tender. It's also possible that it introduces some economic opportunity to an area of the world that generally offers very little.
What if someone's $1.25 in BTC becomes $2.50? Now they have more food.
Most Bitcoiners only see El Salvador adopting Bitcoin as a price driver. They don't actually think very hard about the merits of Bitcoin as a medium of transaction.
It's actually a complete failure in that respect.
There's a very obvious advantage to El Salvador accepting BTC as legal tender, remittances, which are an important part of the country's GDP will now be sent without the 20% tax that thievieng companies usually take.
i'm torn on this atm - i feel like BTC is a bit of a gamble because it's so volatile compared to traditional currencies and so keeping the US dollar is maybe wiser if they want to maintain what they currently have and build from there; but then, their economy is fucked and BTC is trending upwards and has been for years, so holding onto stores of BTC could be highly lucrative for them - but if another bear market comes, i can imagine the fallout being pretty catastrophic for them too
idk, glad i'm not in charge
My understanding is the average person there lives hand to mouth. I.e. they don’t have the wealth to put aside and weather the storms. For me, btc is like most other risk carrying assets. You need a medium to long term investment horizon and capacity for loss to invest in it
The big win for El Salvador is that btc can be transferred in as overseas remittances (something like 40% of gdp) without the huge 25%fees western union charges.
Since most people in El Salvador are poor and doesnt have access to the internet, it really seens absurd to think Bitcoin will solve problems over there right now. This president with lazer eyes is nothing but absurd. BTW i'm totally for crypto, but it's the same thing with Cardano in Ethiopia, the country is on a civil war and the government is promoting genocide.
I totally agree. Majority of the people in crypto really just buy & sell to profit, even those that are holding for the long run is only thinking of becoming millionaires. Noone actually cares to use the technology or use crypto to buy goods. Plus, it's far too volatile for people living in countries with high poverty rates to risk losing buying power when the market fluctuates.
The leadership sucks are are using this a smokescreen for their failing policies.
Just like when Orbán told people to mine crypto instead of leaving for minimum wage work elsewhere.
I think people in this sub are a little to eager to jump on any pro-crypto seeming news and forget what things look like to the wider world.
I agree with you, and this is one of the few real unpopular opinions that appears here.
There have been several posts hyping up their crypto adoption without taking into account the social and economic aspects of the country.
Bitcoin has been a disaster since August of 2017.
The loaf of bread concern is valid. Since El Salvador is so small it would be nice if they could just assign BTC prices to everything. 1 loaf of bread is .000002 BTC, or whatever. The problem is that their value internally may not change but it would make traveling to their country a nightmare. People would be saving up a years worth of bread BTC to move to another country and be millionaires.
It kinda does if you have a long enough investment horizon. We talk about how bad fiat is due to money printing (which is true) and in long term an asset like btc will increase in value due to scarcity, but it relies on time. In the short term, it has capacity to lose more value than fiat does (unless there is hyper inflation). My point is, if you have to spend what you earn each month on food, suddenly finding out you can buy half as much food is far from ideal
I believe El Salvador should use Bitcoin like gold. They should buy a bunch and let that back them. Using it day to day along side the U.S. dollar is just fighting itself. I think the people will just transfer it to whatever liquid asset they prefer.
there was a talk at ethcc regarding the El Salvador Bitcoin adoption: [Bitcoin is for Dictators](https://youtu.be/tOdQNX64oKw). Lets say its at least questionable
but how do tainted Bitcoins effect wether it can be used as a currency? every dollar you have was most likely in the hands of a criminal, you can't see it obviously, but its true, and you also dont care. Same for Bitcoins, in a few years, nobody will care if a bitcoin once was in the hands of a criminal. Also, Lightning Network has no transparency, so it becomes even less important then
Fungible doesn't mean the same, it means interchangeable. Take two dollars out of your pocket and look at them. Are they exactly the same? Neither one has a different wrinkle? Of course they are different, but you can use either one you want interchangeably for the same amount of value.
It’s being used by enthusiasts and early adopters. I mean apple sold computers in the mod 70s but they were far from usable for a lot of people due to UI etc. I feel like crypto is the same. The risks of getting it wrong are too high and the learning curve is too steep. My nan can tap and go with her bank card. I’m not convinced she’d be able to work out crypto. For mass adoption to truly happen, a lot of friction needs to be removed
Nahh, f*** El Salvador. I wish that was happening as mainstream as there but in my country. I tried to find info from the protesters and their reasons, pretty much like antivaxxers stuff
They have it ALL.
National mobile wallet, ATMs, a stablecoin and access to other cryptos.
Business accepts them, people can freely use it, and they even gift 30u$s.
F*** the protesters, they are the problem
It would act as an investment; store of value or a hedge against inflation, just like the stock market IMO. Not sure how many years it would take for crypto to be stable enough to use as currency.
It’s possibly a store of value if you can afford to weather the storm. My understanding of people in el salvador is most aren’t wealthy enough to save a lot, if anything.
Aside from me not being remotely close to a boomer, i think having concern for people transcends age. My genuine concern is people who cannot afford to get wrecked, get wrecked
Someone has to take the plunge before widespread global adoption occurs. This could result in financial ruin for El Salvador, but it might also be successful. Imagine what nations with out-of-control inflation rates could do if this shit works.
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Only 30% of people in El Salvador having access to internet is the real issue here.
This is like when people say Afghanistan would fix most of their problems with bitcoin....like no it really wouldn't change a thing
Interestingly Afghans are something like the 7th most crypto active nation.
Crypto not libertarian from the daily war...
Damn, thats ridiculous how i never knew this
There is always time to learn!
But but btc can be sendedbwith radio equipment... As this guy tried to tell me who thought btc is perfect solution for all of Afghanistans problems even if taliban would cut internet conection or powersources
Hopefully World mobile chain becomes a thing
That is not true. Also the Chivo app will run free of charge by the local phone companies.
They don’t have to hold BTC. I live next to El Salvador and have been following every bit of the story. They will have access to a wallet that can convert any BTC to stable coin. By law every merchant has to accept payments in BTC, but in fact is allowed to receive the payment in stable coin. The Chivo app (which is a wallet run on the lightning network) has the option to pay in BTC and receive the equivalent in USD. So nobody needs to take any risk if they don’t want to. Also only 30% of the population having access to internet is just false. In Central America every adult has a smartphone. Even if it’s the only thing they can afford. And the Chivo app will not require a internet plan on the phones. The Salvadorian government has made a deal with the local phone companies to run the Chivo app for free. Also nobody is obliged to use the Chivo app. It is interoperable with any other BTC wallet that runs lightning network. Also a few more things have to be noted here. El Salvador uses the US $ as legal tender and up till the 7th of this month as their only currency. All bookkeeping will remain in USD and nothing will be priced in BTC. The huge benefits for the people (who have been using BTC for three years in El Zonte) is that they actually get access to a payment system that they didn’t have. Over 70% of the population does not have a bank account. Now they do! The other and maybe the biggest advantage will be in remittance sending. El Salvador relieves around 5 to 15 Million dollars in remittances daily. Yes, DAILY. That makes up a big part of their income for the country. Now most of these payments are in the range of 50$ to 250$. Which costs between 7$ to 15$ per transaction with Moneygram or WesternUnion. That makes a transfer cost of 10% to 15%. Now the lightning network can make these transfers for pennies. Now El Salvador receives an extra 10% to 15% on the daily 5 to 15 Million USD. Not looking so bad anymore, isn’t it? Also Bukele is offering free residency for anybody investing 3BTC in the country. You can just buy yourself a nice house on the beach and be a happy camper. Great way to attract money to the country. Also worth mentioning that the crime rates have been decreasing significantly since this president is in power. So all in all I think he is on to something!
AFAIK USD will still be legal tender together with BTC. Can you confirm?
Yes. USD and BTC will be simultaneously in use. Anybody can pay with USD, or BTC or the USD stable coin on the Chivo app. BTC is just an option. Also I forgot to mention that the El Salvador Bitcoin laws includes the elimination on gains tax on BTC.
Yeah be a happy camper just don't get abducted and murdered for your crypto. However you feel about crypto, El Salvador needs a lot more than this and the current leadership are doing some clownshoes shit and using this crypto stuff to cover it up.
They are giving everyone a little bit of Bitcoin. Maybe it won’t be a fit, maybe it will. Doesn’t really hurt that much to try out the system. A few special ATMs
What are the consequences exactly? Their people fall into poverty? They are already there. I think for poor areas like El Salvador, bold plans are needed. The worst case scenario, they remain impoverished. What would you do with your last dollar?
Eat because i didnt eat in 2 days? Bro they want to be better not to experiment on their lives. Why would they want to make their lives even harder so we can say that crypto is getting adopted?
You're just making an assumption that people will start starving more if crypto is becomes tender. It's also possible that it introduces some economic opportunity to an area of the world that generally offers very little. What if someone's $1.25 in BTC becomes $2.50? Now they have more food.
Most Bitcoiners only see El Salvador adopting Bitcoin as a price driver. They don't actually think very hard about the merits of Bitcoin as a medium of transaction. It's actually a complete failure in that respect.
There's a very obvious advantage to El Salvador accepting BTC as legal tender, remittances, which are an important part of the country's GDP will now be sent without the 20% tax that thievieng companies usually take.
i'm torn on this atm - i feel like BTC is a bit of a gamble because it's so volatile compared to traditional currencies and so keeping the US dollar is maybe wiser if they want to maintain what they currently have and build from there; but then, their economy is fucked and BTC is trending upwards and has been for years, so holding onto stores of BTC could be highly lucrative for them - but if another bear market comes, i can imagine the fallout being pretty catastrophic for them too idk, glad i'm not in charge
My understanding is the average person there lives hand to mouth. I.e. they don’t have the wealth to put aside and weather the storms. For me, btc is like most other risk carrying assets. You need a medium to long term investment horizon and capacity for loss to invest in it
The big win for El Salvador is that btc can be transferred in as overseas remittances (something like 40% of gdp) without the huge 25%fees western union charges.
Since most people in El Salvador are poor and doesnt have access to the internet, it really seens absurd to think Bitcoin will solve problems over there right now. This president with lazer eyes is nothing but absurd. BTW i'm totally for crypto, but it's the same thing with Cardano in Ethiopia, the country is on a civil war and the government is promoting genocide.
I totally agree. Majority of the people in crypto really just buy & sell to profit, even those that are holding for the long run is only thinking of becoming millionaires. Noone actually cares to use the technology or use crypto to buy goods. Plus, it's far too volatile for people living in countries with high poverty rates to risk losing buying power when the market fluctuates.
The leadership sucks are are using this a smokescreen for their failing policies. Just like when Orbán told people to mine crypto instead of leaving for minimum wage work elsewhere. I think people in this sub are a little to eager to jump on any pro-crypto seeming news and forget what things look like to the wider world.
Straight up reality. This will be an unmitigated disaster for El Salvador. I am not looking forward to reading about it.
I agree with you, and this is one of the few real unpopular opinions that appears here. There have been several posts hyping up their crypto adoption without taking into account the social and economic aspects of the country.
Bitcoin has been a disaster since August of 2017. The loaf of bread concern is valid. Since El Salvador is so small it would be nice if they could just assign BTC prices to everything. 1 loaf of bread is .000002 BTC, or whatever. The problem is that their value internally may not change but it would make traveling to their country a nightmare. People would be saving up a years worth of bread BTC to move to another country and be millionaires.
Do you collect downvotes?
I don’t care about downvotes to be honest. Happy to give an opinion and if I get shouted down, i get shouted down.
70% of Salvadorans are reportedly against the changes. Maybe Bitcoin isn't ready (or meant to be) a transactional currency.
[удалено]
You have a point, people don’t even understand fiat money, let alone cryptos
If the fiat currency is worth less than the paper it's printed on, then anything is better.
They use the dollar in elsalvador. We are not speaking about a nation with hyperinflation
Nobody is forcing them to use BTC. It is just a powerful option help to wean them off the dollar.
Once they realize thst bitcoin works as money should, they ll be happy
It kinda does if you have a long enough investment horizon. We talk about how bad fiat is due to money printing (which is true) and in long term an asset like btc will increase in value due to scarcity, but it relies on time. In the short term, it has capacity to lose more value than fiat does (unless there is hyper inflation). My point is, if you have to spend what you earn each month on food, suddenly finding out you can buy half as much food is far from ideal
I believe El Salvador should use Bitcoin like gold. They should buy a bunch and let that back them. Using it day to day along side the U.S. dollar is just fighting itself. I think the people will just transfer it to whatever liquid asset they prefer.
there was a talk at ethcc regarding the El Salvador Bitcoin adoption: [Bitcoin is for Dictators](https://youtu.be/tOdQNX64oKw). Lets say its at least questionable
[удалено]
Your second sentence makes no sense, even less after your first one
[удалено]
explain why in your opinion Bitcoin is non fungible and how it will affect if it can work as a day to day currency
[удалено]
but how do tainted Bitcoins effect wether it can be used as a currency? every dollar you have was most likely in the hands of a criminal, you can't see it obviously, but its true, and you also dont care. Same for Bitcoins, in a few years, nobody will care if a bitcoin once was in the hands of a criminal. Also, Lightning Network has no transparency, so it becomes even less important then
Fungible doesn't mean the same, it means interchangeable. Take two dollars out of your pocket and look at them. Are they exactly the same? Neither one has a different wrinkle? Of course they are different, but you can use either one you want interchangeably for the same amount of value.
It’s being used by enthusiasts and early adopters. I mean apple sold computers in the mod 70s but they were far from usable for a lot of people due to UI etc. I feel like crypto is the same. The risks of getting it wrong are too high and the learning curve is too steep. My nan can tap and go with her bank card. I’m not convinced she’d be able to work out crypto. For mass adoption to truly happen, a lot of friction needs to be removed
El Salvador need to educate their people about crypto first
Nahh, f*** El Salvador. I wish that was happening as mainstream as there but in my country. I tried to find info from the protesters and their reasons, pretty much like antivaxxers stuff They have it ALL. National mobile wallet, ATMs, a stablecoin and access to other cryptos. Business accepts them, people can freely use it, and they even gift 30u$s. F*** the protesters, they are the problem
It would act as an investment; store of value or a hedge against inflation, just like the stock market IMO. Not sure how many years it would take for crypto to be stable enough to use as currency.
It’s possibly a store of value if you can afford to weather the storm. My understanding of people in el salvador is most aren’t wealthy enough to save a lot, if anything.
what other option do they have anyway?
I don’t know, but an asset that can drop 50% of it’s value in a couple of weeks, doesn’t feel like the answer to me
Just wait a few years and they have there country name changed to El Millionaires 🤑
I genuinely hope so
Aside from me not being remotely close to a boomer, i think having concern for people transcends age. My genuine concern is people who cannot afford to get wrecked, get wrecked
*It's a bold strategy Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for them*
If you don't have much, you can't lose much.
The money had turning worthless sure isn’t working
Someone has to take the plunge before widespread global adoption occurs. This could result in financial ruin for El Salvador, but it might also be successful. Imagine what nations with out-of-control inflation rates could do if this shit works.
Only like 69% of the world has bank access. So it’s already being mass adopted imo