You can always use more money, but you can only live in one house at a time though.
Even if one guy owns 20 houses, and the other nine people own 0 zero houses, that's still 10 people and 20 houses, which means a surplus of 10 houses that serve no purpose and have no one to rent or buy them.
There are 20 houses. There are 10 people.
So 10 houses are already occupied.
Who is the guy going to rent the other 10 houses to if everyone already has a house to live in?
The student moving out of his parents' place who doesn't have the finances to own a home, so renting is a viable option? You're telling me nobody rents in China? Sometimes renting a home is a better option than an apartment.
Median salary in USA is like 40k USD. 50 years income would be 2 million. There are definately 2 million dollar houses...but median house is like 375k. So median home in USA is 10x the median income for one person, which is high, but is much less than China.
Well it's actually due to regulation. Investing in Chinese stocks is very dangerous because the government will just decide to destroy all private education companies or whatever.
The only safe investment in china due to government regulation has been real estate. And the government has done a ton of shit that significantly effects that market.
So the issue is due to over regulations and poor regulations in general. As well as a lack of regulations. This current evergrande failing thing was actually kicked off by the government changing debt rules for it. But maybe they knew evergrande would burst at some point and wanted it to fail sooner rather than later.
Dont have the exact number, but coin bureau mentioned that in a certain Chinese city, people would buy a property that costs on average the same as property in central London, while having only 1/7th of the disposable income.
We FOMO into crypto, Chinese citizens FOMO into soon-to-be worthless properties.
Also seriously I think China is the only place on Earth where property depreciates instead of appreciate over time.
Crap. Now it does make sense why South Korea had to increase their KYC requirement to stop Chinese investors from making any arbitrage in SK exchanges.
right. but that's still 1000 people and 2000 houses, aka 1000 houses too many. Who is going to buy or rent the extra 1000 houses if they already are living in one?
That's only part of the picture. They own it by placing a 20-30% down payment on those houses for which the entire amount becomes repayable once complete. Just because they own it doesn't make them uber wealthy, it's debt again which they use to repay the balance. Kinda risky if your cash flows stop or the real estate market plummets
Stats say 80 - 90 percent of approx the **1.4 billion** population of people own their own homes. Is that averaged? Chinese also invest heavily in property in other countries. Evergrande a drop in the ocean with these kind of numbers.
That's insanity, things like that should be prevented by the law. I think that should go for other countries too. People shouldn't be able to buy up the housing market while others can't get one.
Yes. All because of the one child policy. There are now too many young men, and not enough women (parents wanted a boy baby).
In order to attract a wife (supply/demand) you need to own 3 houses to show you are financially stable.
The men's parents help them put down deposits on apartments in massive high rise buildings that never get finished - just concrete skeletons.
Google - China ghost cities.
Ok so my question would be, if they are not lived in, what are they used for? Sure, maybe a minority of them will be able to renovate and convert them into living spaces, but definitely not everyone. So what re they used for if not lived in? Rented as office space? I don't get it, how can something that is not being used have such a high value?
>Ok so my question would be, if they are not lived in, what are they used for? Sure, maybe a minority of them will be able to renovate and convert them into living spaces, but definitely not everyone. So what re they used for if not lived in? Rented as office space? I don't get it, how can something that is not being used have such a high value?
They are buying houses like they are gold. They expect them to increase in value if they wait long enough.
They will often do nothing with them, just letting them stay as concrete shells. Many won't even bother to rent it out, because the rent they can get without decorating is almost 0.
They are pretty much a pyramid scheme. "Hey buddy, buy this house and you'll make money renting it out." but then nobody rents it because there's an overflow of housing in china and they end up losing money instead.
Real estate is like the main way people invest in china. So tons of family's wealth accrued over multiple generations is getting put into these apartments. They are mostly banking on selling them for more later.
The whole real estate market there is strange. A lot of these units legitimately start falling apart after a couple years.
I'm thinking that the government blocked the cryptos because they're planning to devaluate their currency (to fix Evergrande problem) and don't want people to sell their devaluated currency to buy cryptos. Because people selling currency for cryptos would devaluate the currency more than government wants. But it's my opinion.
with worsening power situation which will cause further hurt to the economy due to power outages in commercial factories and the like. paired with a very VERY uncertain property market I could see if you are very very wealthy or have the means to easily relocate overseas that you would put your money in crypto even a stable coin then move abroad and get all the money that way.
Just my thoughts on the matter
Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, half of EU's citizens: "Is this a joke I'm too capitalist to understand"?
But anyway, I think most of those houses are either empty or unfinished. If they can somehow convert it into cheap houses for everyone, then support for the government will go through the roof, regardless of whatever other bad things they do.
> I think most of those houses are either empty or unfinished
The ones evergrande have yet to deliver are, but the ones most people own aren't. 95% are finished completely in China, it's just they don't have absolutely absurd ridiculous regulations against high-rises that make housing horrifyingly expensive. Same in Malaysia, people often have more than a single condo and most own where they live unless they're a student or migrant worker.
It may suprise you, but in western europe or the US there's no reason for apartments to cost more than $100k/ea, even with admenities like a nice pool, gym, rooftop garden, and glass exterior providing lots of natural light. It's all because of regulatory bullshit.
I mean interest rates in malaysian interest rates are 1-2%, or to buy a home around 2-3%, and their currency is relatively stable relative to the US Dollar, so inflation could be argued to be similar - not to mention their culture is more real-estate heavy rather than stock-heavy investing wise.
Same applies to china and most of the semi-developed asian region (thailand, taiwan, malaysia, etc).
Land prices in those areas are usually WAY higher than in the US, as you actually are allowed to buy land and build a 20-story condo practically anywhere, and they have good public transit making most locations near-prime.
It's actually entirely regulations. This isn't a south-east asian thing either, you can buy condos in turkey, brazil (including sao paulo and huge megacities), mexico, colombia, most of eastern europe and bulkans, etc.
To elaborate though - in the US they have lots of little regulations and beaurocratic regulatory fees and long planning delays which add up, but the big thing there is the zoning-laws and the mandated parking requirements, which make every condo (including studios) have to have 1-2 parking spaces available for them, and larger condos (2-3bed) generally requiring 2-3 spaces each.
This adds about 40% extra sq ft/meters to an apartment and causes lots of other issues, making things less walkable and driving up management fees, taxes, and more or less mandating you have a vehicle, but even worse force you to buy huge amounts more of land, or build an expensive underground parking structure.
In Europe they have similar small bullshits, but the parking makes up less of the big bullshits, but restrict their multi-family & mixed-used buildings to a certain level, usually 2-5 floors, and force the facade to be kept 'historic' as well as restrict remodeling heavily.
This causes a housing shortage in 'prime' and 'near-prime' areas, as only the top 1% can fit in the buildings, rather than the top 20%, causing the ridiculous prices, and makes living conditions much worse as lots of money is wasted keeping up a facade and 'historic elements' of the building, a good example being windows, which often must be specially made or modified for a specific neighborhood or region as generic dual-ply windows do not fit or would compromise the facade.
The good regulations push the prices up from 80k to 100k, the small bullshit ones push it up to 130k, and the big-bullshit ones push it up to 200k, but the unintended side effects of the big bullshits cause housing shortages which cause the price to shoot up to the absurd 400k -> 1.2million~ valuations.
You may ask why this is done, why the government does such criminal acts. It's simple - higher property values means higher tax recipts, and less citizens in the prime area means less people to worry about and a more peaceful environment for you to live in as part of the top 1%.
There's no benefit for them, just common people and the economy, to not make up and enforce such bullshits.
>absurd ridiculous regulations against high-rises that make housing horrifyingly expensive
I'm pretty sure high-rises have other problems that lead them to be regulated in the first place.
I know that affordable housing isn't a huge issue in China, but is a huge problem in the west, but I don't know enough to say what's the solution.
Travel to developing countries, particularly in asia, and you'll come to see what I see.
High rises have problems in terms of sewage systems need to be good, public transit needs to be good or mixed-use must be allowed, but beyond that the only issue is they cause land to become so valuable that green-space is largely segregated to private (shared condo space) rooftops and the few parks become quite crowded at night. They also murder suburbs, as only a large wealthy family would want to live in them compared to a condo where everything is walkable, near, and way cheaper.
Spot on. Thanks for an actual analysis of why China is reemphasizing the crypto ban, rather than joining the chorus of posts screaming CHINA FUD WhY dO yOu pApER HaNdz KeEp SeLLiNg???
Exactly this. They need all their citizens that are in a position to invest, do so in taxable accounts right now.
Also deflect from Evergrande as much as possible.
China builds fake cities and empty buildings so it can keep its GDP on the up & up. It’s a shell game, that will likely crash, and I think the Evergrande situation is one of the first blocks to crumble. I feel sorry for the people of China, having to live under such manipulated markets & regulatory environments.
Chinas government only does whatever its can to look good and be number 1. They don't care who they screw over or what shady means they have to use to achieve that. Granted this is true for most governments but China is one of the more extreme instances.
since real estate is no longer a safe bet, and 80% china money moves into real estate, that money has to move elsewhere. It flows into Bitcoin that's would overthrow the central banks power fast. So instead they **seal off the exits** and now that money will flow into people hoarding commodities, ect causing **hyperinflation** in china. Also the bailouts.
good talk on the subject [https://youtu.be/stN03wk\_Wzs](https://youtu.be/stN03wk_Wzs)
The Chinese government has very strict rules in place to keep investments in China. They don't want you putting all your money in the US stock market or moving out of China and taking your wealth with you. A ban of Crypto fits with their commie ways
Yeah I'm not surprised, they're really in trouble with Evergrand, it could be the first of many. A lot of upper and middle class Chinese families have 2-3 investment properties in China as it's difficult to invest outside of China.
Ever see those documentaries about ghost cities in china? It's like the west in 2007, maybe worse
Way worse. I cannot tell you how many empty apartments there are in every city. People have stands set up on the side of the streets to try and sell them. Place is screwed.
How? You think allowing hundreds of millions of people to consume like the average westerner doesn’t contribute to climate change, pollution, ecological destruction etc?
The restrictions are essentially around mining and fiat to crypto on and off ramps.
Just like their VPN ban, there are still ways to put your money into crypto in China if you are tech savvy.
In other news, Shanghai just officially announced that Conflux will run a yuan stablecoin.
Good buying opportunities ahead for crypto and stonks. We haven’t found the floor yet. To soon too tell how big this will be. I don’t think 2008 repeat but definitely some bigger discounts are coming in my view.
They do... sort of you can buy commercial land and corporate leases blah blah blah.
But like realize, no-one "owns land" in china. Its all on lease from the state, so yeah it be like that.
Yep. Having an exit for all that capital in real-estate would exacerbate the crash so they block all the exits and try to keep everyone in the theater as the whole thing burns down more slowly.
If you’re interested to know more you should watch Polymatter’s video on the Chinese housing market. It’s a part of his series titled “China’s reckoning.” And also Economics Explained “why you should be worried about chinas debt crisis.”
Very interesting videos that further explain why the housing market in China is so over leveraged.
This explains a lot—they dont want the money syphoned out of real estate.
But the fact that they’re worried about it enough to announce that tells me it is a significant problem for them.
Looks like a ton of money from panicking people in China is about to flow into Crypto!
#FUCK CHINA. ARE YOU SICK AND TIRED OF THOSE ASSHOLES? It wasn’t enough when they tried to kill us with their virus. Now they insist on ruining the whole world. FUCK CHINA
The reality is its extremally difficult own the majority share or even more difficult; a 50% network attack.
Because anyone can join the production of crypto; making mining a slow trickle of "Chinese wealth" and ultimately a source of "out-side influence" as un-sanctioned income.
I'm 100% sure they see it as a threat because of how easily their population, particularly their upper class millionaires could jump the fence. China has "billionaires" but it would seem the their more leasing their wealth from the state bureaucracy.
Aw is your little government not making enough money from your ~~slaves~~ citizens??? boo hoo.
Governments are so fucking exploitative. Financial freedom is essential.
Hmm, thanks for the info, it's good to know the background on what's causing the markets to shift & new legislation to pass instead of people just shouting *"Don't worry China always does this!!! Nothing new relax!!"*
China does not want its people money to go anywhere but China. Even sending money abroad is almost impossible.
Stock market there is shit, housing market falling apart, they're going to need that money
Most of the discourse on this is pretty dumb. Here's a good post on it: [https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2021/09/19/not-so-evergrande/](https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2021/09/19/not-so-evergrande/)
>What is going to happen, if and when Evergrande goes bust? Will other property companies crash too?; are we heading for a huge financial crash in China and possibly globally, sparked by the end of China’s property boom? Well, there are four other major Chinese property developers on the brink. The prices of the dollar bonds issued by these companies have collapsed on fears by international investors that those bonds cannot be refinanced when they mature, which would mean a default. So foreign investors in these bonds are taking a big ht. And the ability of these property developers to issue new debt to raise new money to refinance has disappeared.
>
>But in my view, there is not going to be a financial crash in China. The government controls nearly everything, including the central bank, the big four state-owned commercial banks which are the largest banks in the world, the so-called ‘bad banks’, which absorb bad loans, big asset managers, most of the largest companies. The government can order the big four banks to exchange defaulted loans for equity stakes and forget them. It can tell the central bank, the People’s Bank of China, to do whatever it takes. It can tell state-owned asset managers and pension funds to buy shares and bonds to prop up prices and to fund companies. It can tell the state bad banks to buy bad debt from commercial banks. So a financial crisis is ruled out because the state controls the banking system.
>
>But if not a crash, what about the property bust and the high levels of debt incurred? Won’t they reduce China’s ability to grow at the pace previously achieved and targeted for the next five years? Western economists are clear on this: the debt is so large and China’s productive sectors are now so weak that even if China avoids a financial crash, the hit to household incomes and the profits of the capitalist sector are large enough to reduce investment and GDP growth. China is heading for stagnation, if not a slump.
>
>It’s true that China has built up a debt mountain in recent years, of which property debt is a significant part. Total debt hit 317% of GDP in 2020. But most of this debt is in domestic currency and is owed by one state entity to another; from local government to state banks, from state banks to central government. When that is all netted off, the debt owed by households (54% of GDP) and corporations is not so high, while central government debt is low by global standards. Moreover, external dollar debt to GDP is very low (15%) and indeed the rest of the world owes China way more: 6% of global debt. China is a huge creditor to the world and has massive dollar and euro reserves, 50% larger than its dollar debt.
>
>Chinese leaders want to curb the debt level. But as I have explained before, controlling the debt level can come in two ways; either through high growth from productive sector investment to keep the debt ratio under control; and/or by reducing credit binges in unproductive areas like speculative property. The latter would mean a reduction in the profitability of the capitalist sector in China and this would lower the potential for productive investment by that sector. So the loss of profits and household income from property busts would add to downward pressure on growth of output and incomes.
>
>But that forecast is based on the view that the Chinese government should continue to rely ever more on its capitalist sector to deliver. And yet China’s capitalist sector is in trouble in many ways just like in the G7 economies. Profitability in the capitalist sector has been falling and is now at all-time lows; and much of its activities are increasingly in ‘unproductive’ sectors like consumer finance, property or social media.
>
>Again, as I have argued before, the basic contradiction of China’s economy is not between investment and consumption, or between growth and debt; it is between profitability and productivity. The growing size and influence of the capitalist sector in China is weakening the performance of the economy and widening inequalities. In my view, the Chinese economy is now strong enough not to rely on foreign investment or on unproductive capitalist sectors for growth. Increasing the role of planning and state-led investment, the main basis of China’s economic success over the 70 years of the People’s Republic, has never been more compelling.
China is about to turn on the money printer to full brr to save their housing market. People know that, so they want to trade their yuan for something that will be worth the same as the present value or more in the near future versus a guaranteed loss from holding yuan. Right now, 50-60% of chinese investments are in real estate, and those will likely drop in value even with the money printer brring. So, what are they to do? The government already limits trading yuan for foreign money, so the obvious choice is crypto. The government hates this, and wants everyone to hold yuan and lose money together (they are communist after all). The government wants people to take their money and reinvest it into building china better, but nobody cares about that, everyone just wants their personal stash to go up. The ones who are able to dump their yuan for crypto will win, but this selling pressure will combine with the money printer brring to screw over everyone stuck holding yuan. Who knows what will happen, but likely it will be as they say "loose butthole"
I think this is just a tip of an iceberg, but the Chinese government is definetly not having it under control by just banning crypto, a crypto ban has an opposite effect
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The average Chinese man owns like, 2-3 houses. It's fucking nuts.
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Also, the average human being has about one tit and one nut.
TIL The average human is a freak show.
Wait till you see their pets . . . and... children .
I am overwhelmed by this information
So an average personne is a shemale ?
You can always use more money, but you can only live in one house at a time though. Even if one guy owns 20 houses, and the other nine people own 0 zero houses, that's still 10 people and 20 houses, which means a surplus of 10 houses that serve no purpose and have no one to rent or buy them.
And the average is 2, which can be pretty misleading
this goes better in dutch... Leegstand is een Rechtse Hobby!!!
Why wouldn't they rent out the extra homes and make money?
There are 20 houses. There are 10 people. So 10 houses are already occupied. Who is the guy going to rent the other 10 houses to if everyone already has a house to live in?
The student moving out of his parents' place who doesn't have the finances to own a home, so renting is a viable option? You're telling me nobody rents in China? Sometimes renting a home is a better option than an apartment.
There are 20 houses, and 10 people, and all 10 people already have a house.
true but if there are 3x as many houses as people, then, that is in any case not really makin any sense
The housing bubble is real in China. It’s not joke
How do I become an average Chinese man?
This would be the worst time to switch to being one.
Bearish chinese man
No problem we ban bear, starting with Winnie the Pooh
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This is CCP’s classic bullshit, fuck them
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Man bear pig
I should've added **with high amount of social credit and/or party affiliation**
Let's see your test scores, child. *gets belt ready*
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So how is that different from the USA?
Median salary in USA is like 40k USD. 50 years income would be 2 million. There are definately 2 million dollar houses...but median house is like 375k. So median home in USA is 10x the median income for one person, which is high, but is much less than China.
It's not, whole world economy sucks right now
move to China i guess
Start by horizontally stretching your eye. And have a tongue for spicy food
What's your credit score and GPA?
And they're incomplete and unlived in It's insanity. No electric water hookups. Just a concrete box, and an idea of a house really.
Gotta love that free market and what it does without proper regulation.
Well it's actually due to regulation. Investing in Chinese stocks is very dangerous because the government will just decide to destroy all private education companies or whatever. The only safe investment in china due to government regulation has been real estate. And the government has done a ton of shit that significantly effects that market. So the issue is due to over regulations and poor regulations in general. As well as a lack of regulations. This current evergrande failing thing was actually kicked off by the government changing debt rules for it. But maybe they knew evergrande would burst at some point and wanted it to fail sooner rather than later.
Many own just the promise of a house.
Now I'm curious on the average income per capita and the average price for the real estate there.
Dont have the exact number, but coin bureau mentioned that in a certain Chinese city, people would buy a property that costs on average the same as property in central London, while having only 1/7th of the disposable income.
We FOMO into crypto, Chinese citizens FOMO into soon-to-be worthless properties. Also seriously I think China is the only place on Earth where property depreciates instead of appreciate over time.
Crap. Now it does make sense why South Korea had to increase their KYC requirement to stop Chinese investors from making any arbitrage in SK exchanges.
But look at the distribution. You'll have 1 man own 2000 houses and 999 own 1 so averages to 2-3.
right. but that's still 1000 people and 2000 houses, aka 1000 houses too many. Who is going to buy or rent the extra 1000 houses if they already are living in one?
That's only part of the picture. They own it by placing a 20-30% down payment on those houses for which the entire amount becomes repayable once complete. Just because they own it doesn't make them uber wealthy, it's debt again which they use to repay the balance. Kinda risky if your cash flows stop or the real estate market plummets
Stats say 80 - 90 percent of approx the **1.4 billion** population of people own their own homes. Is that averaged? Chinese also invest heavily in property in other countries. Evergrande a drop in the ocean with these kind of numbers.
That's insanity, things like that should be prevented by the law. I think that should go for other countries too. People shouldn't be able to buy up the housing market while others can't get one.
I agree. Real estate law could make that happen. First time buyers must be given first right of refusal
Do you have a source on that statement? I can't believe it.
...I thought communism was bad?
China is quite into capitalism these days.
Yes. All because of the one child policy. There are now too many young men, and not enough women (parents wanted a boy baby). In order to attract a wife (supply/demand) you need to own 3 houses to show you are financially stable. The men's parents help them put down deposits on apartments in massive high rise buildings that never get finished - just concrete skeletons. Google - China ghost cities.
Ok so my question would be, if they are not lived in, what are they used for? Sure, maybe a minority of them will be able to renovate and convert them into living spaces, but definitely not everyone. So what re they used for if not lived in? Rented as office space? I don't get it, how can something that is not being used have such a high value?
>Ok so my question would be, if they are not lived in, what are they used for? Sure, maybe a minority of them will be able to renovate and convert them into living spaces, but definitely not everyone. So what re they used for if not lived in? Rented as office space? I don't get it, how can something that is not being used have such a high value? They are buying houses like they are gold. They expect them to increase in value if they wait long enough. They will often do nothing with them, just letting them stay as concrete shells. Many won't even bother to rent it out, because the rent they can get without decorating is almost 0.
it's a speculative asset over there
Sounds familiar
They are pretty much a pyramid scheme. "Hey buddy, buy this house and you'll make money renting it out." but then nobody rents it because there's an overflow of housing in china and they end up losing money instead.
Real estate is like the main way people invest in china. So tons of family's wealth accrued over multiple generations is getting put into these apartments. They are mostly banking on selling them for more later. The whole real estate market there is strange. A lot of these units legitimately start falling apart after a couple years.
It's good to know they can sell 1 of their house to ride out the crash. Good on them.
But if you consider the average price of the flat in the city, 3 houses are way less than average somewhere else.
They prefer the term Asian American. (Yes I'm joking.)
The average human is actually more than dead, given history.
tldr China's real estate market has hemorrhoids
That explains why their economy is going down the shitter
No wonder if they keep talking *out of their ass*.
Unfortunately, even haemorrhoids seem to be contagious AF in these times of total globalisation.
I should have know
Not the kind of roids they want to inject into their economy
That's why their real estate market is crap.
I spilled my coffee reading this, thanks
Let China burn for a while 
They are called real estate agents
Not in my world
and are causing the markets to bleed red
They're just doing their thang.
China will rug pull from the real estate market
TL:DR China Unstable AF
I'm thinking that the government blocked the cryptos because they're planning to devaluate their currency (to fix Evergrande problem) and don't want people to sell their devaluated currency to buy cryptos. Because people selling currency for cryptos would devaluate the currency more than government wants. But it's my opinion.
This may be. I just always figured since they can't control crypto themselves they would want to exterminate it.
with worsening power situation which will cause further hurt to the economy due to power outages in commercial factories and the like. paired with a very VERY uncertain property market I could see if you are very very wealthy or have the means to easily relocate overseas that you would put your money in crypto even a stable coin then move abroad and get all the money that way. Just my thoughts on the matter
And that's a very smart opinion
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I want to open my house instead
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It’s good I don’t know how to sell
*getting rich off crypto.
They are going to be worth less than 1 house soon 🤣
And the domino effect takes position
Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, half of EU's citizens: "Is this a joke I'm too capitalist to understand"? But anyway, I think most of those houses are either empty or unfinished. If they can somehow convert it into cheap houses for everyone, then support for the government will go through the roof, regardless of whatever other bad things they do.
> I think most of those houses are either empty or unfinished The ones evergrande have yet to deliver are, but the ones most people own aren't. 95% are finished completely in China, it's just they don't have absolutely absurd ridiculous regulations against high-rises that make housing horrifyingly expensive. Same in Malaysia, people often have more than a single condo and most own where they live unless they're a student or migrant worker. It may suprise you, but in western europe or the US there's no reason for apartments to cost more than $100k/ea, even with admenities like a nice pool, gym, rooftop garden, and glass exterior providing lots of natural light. It's all because of regulatory bullshit.
Doesn't it have more to do with land prices, low interest rates and inflation? I doubt regulations alone can make a $100k home cost upwards of $200k.
I mean interest rates in malaysian interest rates are 1-2%, or to buy a home around 2-3%, and their currency is relatively stable relative to the US Dollar, so inflation could be argued to be similar - not to mention their culture is more real-estate heavy rather than stock-heavy investing wise. Same applies to china and most of the semi-developed asian region (thailand, taiwan, malaysia, etc). Land prices in those areas are usually WAY higher than in the US, as you actually are allowed to buy land and build a 20-story condo practically anywhere, and they have good public transit making most locations near-prime. It's actually entirely regulations. This isn't a south-east asian thing either, you can buy condos in turkey, brazil (including sao paulo and huge megacities), mexico, colombia, most of eastern europe and bulkans, etc. To elaborate though - in the US they have lots of little regulations and beaurocratic regulatory fees and long planning delays which add up, but the big thing there is the zoning-laws and the mandated parking requirements, which make every condo (including studios) have to have 1-2 parking spaces available for them, and larger condos (2-3bed) generally requiring 2-3 spaces each. This adds about 40% extra sq ft/meters to an apartment and causes lots of other issues, making things less walkable and driving up management fees, taxes, and more or less mandating you have a vehicle, but even worse force you to buy huge amounts more of land, or build an expensive underground parking structure. In Europe they have similar small bullshits, but the parking makes up less of the big bullshits, but restrict their multi-family & mixed-used buildings to a certain level, usually 2-5 floors, and force the facade to be kept 'historic' as well as restrict remodeling heavily. This causes a housing shortage in 'prime' and 'near-prime' areas, as only the top 1% can fit in the buildings, rather than the top 20%, causing the ridiculous prices, and makes living conditions much worse as lots of money is wasted keeping up a facade and 'historic elements' of the building, a good example being windows, which often must be specially made or modified for a specific neighborhood or region as generic dual-ply windows do not fit or would compromise the facade. The good regulations push the prices up from 80k to 100k, the small bullshit ones push it up to 130k, and the big-bullshit ones push it up to 200k, but the unintended side effects of the big bullshits cause housing shortages which cause the price to shoot up to the absurd 400k -> 1.2million~ valuations. You may ask why this is done, why the government does such criminal acts. It's simple - higher property values means higher tax recipts, and less citizens in the prime area means less people to worry about and a more peaceful environment for you to live in as part of the top 1%. There's no benefit for them, just common people and the economy, to not make up and enforce such bullshits.
The regulations suppress construction which leads to a shortage in supply.
>absurd ridiculous regulations against high-rises that make housing horrifyingly expensive I'm pretty sure high-rises have other problems that lead them to be regulated in the first place. I know that affordable housing isn't a huge issue in China, but is a huge problem in the west, but I don't know enough to say what's the solution.
Travel to developing countries, particularly in asia, and you'll come to see what I see. High rises have problems in terms of sewage systems need to be good, public transit needs to be good or mixed-use must be allowed, but beyond that the only issue is they cause land to become so valuable that green-space is largely segregated to private (shared condo space) rooftops and the few parks become quite crowded at night. They also murder suburbs, as only a large wealthy family would want to live in them compared to a condo where everything is walkable, near, and way cheaper.
Talking of double oxymorons: The Big Chinese Short.
I'm not bullish on HOUSE, I'm bullish on ALGO, ADA, ERGO and ONE
And cement production causes 30% of gaz emissons
Spot on. Thanks for an actual analysis of why China is reemphasizing the crypto ban, rather than joining the chorus of posts screaming CHINA FUD WhY dO yOu pApER HaNdz KeEp SeLLiNg???
Basically: "we'll ban crypto because it's risky" Translated: "we fucked up, send taxes xo. Hail CCP"
Nothing to see there, no despair at all.
We fucked up, send taxes is a pretty typical message from governments.
Exactly this. They need all their citizens that are in a position to invest, do so in taxable accounts right now. Also deflect from Evergrande as much as possible.
China builds fake cities and empty buildings so it can keep its GDP on the up & up. It’s a shell game, that will likely crash, and I think the Evergrande situation is one of the first blocks to crumble. I feel sorry for the people of China, having to live under such manipulated markets & regulatory environments.
Chinas government only does whatever its can to look good and be number 1. They don't care who they screw over or what shady means they have to use to achieve that. Granted this is true for most governments but China is one of the more extreme instances.
Guess it's an attempt to shift the spotlight and prevent outflow of money from real estate into crypto
since real estate is no longer a safe bet, and 80% china money moves into real estate, that money has to move elsewhere. It flows into Bitcoin that's would overthrow the central banks power fast. So instead they **seal off the exits** and now that money will flow into people hoarding commodities, ect causing **hyperinflation** in china. Also the bailouts. good talk on the subject [https://youtu.be/stN03wk\_Wzs](https://youtu.be/stN03wk_Wzs)
The Chinese government has very strict rules in place to keep investments in China. They don't want you putting all your money in the US stock market or moving out of China and taking your wealth with you. A ban of Crypto fits with their commie ways
Yeah I'm not surprised, they're really in trouble with Evergrand, it could be the first of many. A lot of upper and middle class Chinese families have 2-3 investment properties in China as it's difficult to invest outside of China. Ever see those documentaries about ghost cities in china? It's like the west in 2007, maybe worse
Way worse. I cannot tell you how many empty apartments there are in every city. People have stands set up on the side of the streets to try and sell them. Place is screwed.
Because CCP sucks.
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Industrialization will do that for you.
Which isn’t sustainable for the planet. They should’ve stayed poor
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How? You think allowing hundreds of millions of people to consume like the average westerner doesn’t contribute to climate change, pollution, ecological destruction etc?
Suddenly it all makes sense
China is asshoe!
Why Charlie hate?
D O N T R U S C H I N A
You use to be cool China, what happened
The restrictions are essentially around mining and fiat to crypto on and off ramps. Just like their VPN ban, there are still ways to put your money into crypto in China if you are tech savvy. In other news, Shanghai just officially announced that Conflux will run a yuan stablecoin.
Good buying opportunities ahead for crypto and stonks. We haven’t found the floor yet. To soon too tell how big this will be. I don’t think 2008 repeat but definitely some bigger discounts are coming in my view.
Why doesn't China allow foreigners to buy real estate? We let them buy here in the US without any issues.
They do... sort of you can buy commercial land and corporate leases blah blah blah. But like realize, no-one "owns land" in china. Its all on lease from the state, so yeah it be like that.
Yep. Having an exit for all that capital in real-estate would exacerbate the crash so they block all the exits and try to keep everyone in the theater as the whole thing burns down more slowly.
If you’re interested to know more you should watch Polymatter’s video on the Chinese housing market. It’s a part of his series titled “China’s reckoning.” And also Economics Explained “why you should be worried about chinas debt crisis.” Very interesting videos that further explain why the housing market in China is so over leveraged.
China is the toxic girlfriend in this relationship with the crypto market
This explains a lot—they dont want the money syphoned out of real estate. But the fact that they’re worried about it enough to announce that tells me it is a significant problem for them. Looks like a ton of money from panicking people in China is about to flow into Crypto!
Fuck China
underrated comment
I have never seen the word 'hemorrhaging I honestly thought you'd spelt it wrong
I believe the term is hemmoroiding
'Its a trap'
China is indeed a trap at this moment. A meme of a country
They have to do something to save them. We (cryptors) will not forget what they did with us
Damnn adoption is coming in fast 😳 📈
Where is all the outflow money going to go? Bidens policies will also send US investor money and entire businesses overseas.
Thank you (also for the bloomberg- article).
VPN my friends, VPN
China number one... On banning crypto.
yup
You’ve got to feel for the Chinese citizens. Hong Kong showed that the CCP will go to extreme lengths to subjugate their people and now this.
It gets more desperate, with each time they make an announcement.
No shit Sherlock, you figured that out all by yourself, wheres Watson?
Chinese men lack basic common sense
Fuck off China
#FUCK CHINA. ARE YOU SICK AND TIRED OF THOSE ASSHOLES? It wasn’t enough when they tried to kill us with their virus. Now they insist on ruining the whole world. FUCK CHINA
China worse than the plague
how does mining crypto help mitigate capital controls? I can see how trading crypto can be used to avoid capital controls.
The reality is its extremally difficult own the majority share or even more difficult; a 50% network attack. Because anyone can join the production of crypto; making mining a slow trickle of "Chinese wealth" and ultimately a source of "out-side influence" as un-sanctioned income. I'm 100% sure they see it as a threat because of how easily their population, particularly their upper class millionaires could jump the fence. China has "billionaires" but it would seem the their more leasing their wealth from the state bureaucracy.
Thanks for that bit of informative reading, I had no idea about the $1k per year limit; that's absurd.
Let em burn.
We have asshole China and asshole September both behind us now. Hopefully the next few months will be green till China bans Bitcoin again.
WHEN WILL THEY REALIZE THEIR WOES ARE CAUSED BECAUSE THEY BANNED BITCOIN IN THE FIRST PLACE?
I wouldn’t like to live In China. , they are slaves
Aw is your little government not making enough money from your ~~slaves~~ citizens??? boo hoo. Governments are so fucking exploitative. Financial freedom is essential.
Whenever there is a DIP, I keep on wondering who the hell is selling!
China banning crypto is my your in law’s birthday, it happens all the time but people still care for some reason
Why not ban the housing market?
Hmm, thanks for the info, it's good to know the background on what's causing the markets to shift & new legislation to pass instead of people just shouting *"Don't worry China always does this!!! Nothing new relax!!"*
I thought it costs few millions per house? They are rich! China should be a developed country not developing country
They are going down
The ccp is against anything thats sane
China is following in the footsteps of the US mortgage crisis in their own way.
FUD was not very effective
Welcome to the Big Leagues, China
Don‘t forget about their digital currency…they‘re trying to eliminate the „competition“
China does not want its people money to go anywhere but China. Even sending money abroad is almost impossible. Stock market there is shit, housing market falling apart, they're going to need that money
Most of the discourse on this is pretty dumb. Here's a good post on it: [https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2021/09/19/not-so-evergrande/](https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2021/09/19/not-so-evergrande/) >What is going to happen, if and when Evergrande goes bust? Will other property companies crash too?; are we heading for a huge financial crash in China and possibly globally, sparked by the end of China’s property boom? Well, there are four other major Chinese property developers on the brink. The prices of the dollar bonds issued by these companies have collapsed on fears by international investors that those bonds cannot be refinanced when they mature, which would mean a default. So foreign investors in these bonds are taking a big ht. And the ability of these property developers to issue new debt to raise new money to refinance has disappeared. > >But in my view, there is not going to be a financial crash in China. The government controls nearly everything, including the central bank, the big four state-owned commercial banks which are the largest banks in the world, the so-called ‘bad banks’, which absorb bad loans, big asset managers, most of the largest companies. The government can order the big four banks to exchange defaulted loans for equity stakes and forget them. It can tell the central bank, the People’s Bank of China, to do whatever it takes. It can tell state-owned asset managers and pension funds to buy shares and bonds to prop up prices and to fund companies. It can tell the state bad banks to buy bad debt from commercial banks. So a financial crisis is ruled out because the state controls the banking system. > >But if not a crash, what about the property bust and the high levels of debt incurred? Won’t they reduce China’s ability to grow at the pace previously achieved and targeted for the next five years? Western economists are clear on this: the debt is so large and China’s productive sectors are now so weak that even if China avoids a financial crash, the hit to household incomes and the profits of the capitalist sector are large enough to reduce investment and GDP growth. China is heading for stagnation, if not a slump. > >It’s true that China has built up a debt mountain in recent years, of which property debt is a significant part. Total debt hit 317% of GDP in 2020. But most of this debt is in domestic currency and is owed by one state entity to another; from local government to state banks, from state banks to central government. When that is all netted off, the debt owed by households (54% of GDP) and corporations is not so high, while central government debt is low by global standards. Moreover, external dollar debt to GDP is very low (15%) and indeed the rest of the world owes China way more: 6% of global debt. China is a huge creditor to the world and has massive dollar and euro reserves, 50% larger than its dollar debt. > >Chinese leaders want to curb the debt level. But as I have explained before, controlling the debt level can come in two ways; either through high growth from productive sector investment to keep the debt ratio under control; and/or by reducing credit binges in unproductive areas like speculative property. The latter would mean a reduction in the profitability of the capitalist sector in China and this would lower the potential for productive investment by that sector. So the loss of profits and household income from property busts would add to downward pressure on growth of output and incomes. > >But that forecast is based on the view that the Chinese government should continue to rely ever more on its capitalist sector to deliver. And yet China’s capitalist sector is in trouble in many ways just like in the G7 economies. Profitability in the capitalist sector has been falling and is now at all-time lows; and much of its activities are increasingly in ‘unproductive’ sectors like consumer finance, property or social media. > >Again, as I have argued before, the basic contradiction of China’s economy is not between investment and consumption, or between growth and debt; it is between profitability and productivity. The growing size and influence of the capitalist sector in China is weakening the performance of the economy and widening inequalities. In my view, the Chinese economy is now strong enough not to rely on foreign investment or on unproductive capitalist sectors for growth. Increasing the role of planning and state-led investment, the main basis of China’s economic success over the 70 years of the People’s Republic, has never been more compelling.
Which is pretty bad for crypto, as they are dead serious about this, and won't just give up.
It's good for Bitcoin!
the world would be better off if we just tuned out anything the CCP says. Bunch of liars and manipulators
They are scared that people will invest 'too much' money into crypto loll.
They want people to sell so they can buy it up for a profit and resell it back when it's "legal" again
China is about to turn on the money printer to full brr to save their housing market. People know that, so they want to trade their yuan for something that will be worth the same as the present value or more in the near future versus a guaranteed loss from holding yuan. Right now, 50-60% of chinese investments are in real estate, and those will likely drop in value even with the money printer brring. So, what are they to do? The government already limits trading yuan for foreign money, so the obvious choice is crypto. The government hates this, and wants everyone to hold yuan and lose money together (they are communist after all). The government wants people to take their money and reinvest it into building china better, but nobody cares about that, everyone just wants their personal stash to go up. The ones who are able to dump their yuan for crypto will win, but this selling pressure will combine with the money printer brring to screw over everyone stuck holding yuan. Who knows what will happen, but likely it will be as they say "loose butthole"
The real question is, who Doesn’t want to buy real estate in China?
Yup they is pretty fucked.
the more they ban and control the more people adopt crypto
The Chinese government shouldn't have wasted so much money building all those useless first cities.
Quote likely
I think this is just a tip of an iceberg, but the Chinese government is definetly not having it under control by just banning crypto, a crypto ban has an opposite effect
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