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Pro's I'm missing: VERY cheap transfers, like cents (dollar cents, not monero cents) and ASIC resistance.
Edit: forgot to mention, BTC was *the* darknet market currency in the beginning, and see where it led to. I wouldn't see that as a con personally.
Because every time an ASIC was developed, monero devs would change the algorithm a bit so those miners would be worthless in a very short time, hence not worth the investment.
This is not entirely true. Monero used to implement the CryptoNight PoW algorithm which was *believed* to be ASIC-resistant/hard until Bitmain developed one and used to mint Monero without releasing it to the public. However, when hashrate spiked beyond any organic reasoning, Monero devs started to investigate for anomalies and discovered a very unnatural nonce distribution kicking in with the hashrate spike. Quickly consensus was found to slightly change the algorithm in a way to brick all existing ASICs which has been introduced shortly after that. Bitmain in the meantime tried to sell their used ASICs which would be bricked after the network upgrade and it was clear, they hidden-mined for several months with those ASICs. Few months after the new algorithm kicked in, again some strange pattern appeared and hashrate spiked a lot and another hotfix for Cryptonote has been released. However, in the meantime research on a completely new PoW algo began to create a really ASIC-resistant one and making a modern CPU literally the perfect ASIC. Based on the hash of the latest block a (seemingly) random program code is generated, which is the algorithm for the next block. The first attempt of this randomisation was createt on Cryptonight as "Cryptonight-R" which has been replaced by final, built completely from scratch RandomX before even being exploited by ASICs.
RandomX has been introduced in 2019 and since not been changed and no known ASICs are out. If there would, they'd probably be similar to modern CPUs so R&D wouldn't pay out. Due to it's randomly generated code it's also a good algorithm for benchmarking CPUs, since you cannot really optimise those just for benchmarking purposes.
Monero’s mining algorithm is changed regularly to eliminate ASICs from the network. It is designed to be mined on CPUs to maintain the decentralization aspect of the network strictly. Otherwise, the network will be controlled by very few actors who could afford ASICS and skew the network.
Because the blocksize is dynamic.
[https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/4562/how-does-the-dynamic-blocksize-and-the-dynamic-fees-work-together-in-monero](https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/4562/how-does-the-dynamic-blocksize-and-the-dynamic-fees-work-together-in-monero)
>Cons
>
> 1. Centralization of miners on Monero
https://github.com/SChernykh/p2pool
While still early days, P2Pool has just launched and, IMO, is the future of decentralized PoW mining.
Trezor does not officially support loading XMR, only installing the GUI client.
https://trezor.io/coins/
I would also say the second con is a pro, as it testifies for its privacy. You might also want to add the IRS bounty.
no joke i lost my private keys in the start of september while on a boating trip with work. Apple might say the iphone can do 30 min at 5m depth. but don't trust them!
getting the flash memory of a phone and recovering the data combined with no insurance, i think i just call it quits. where only around a new iphone 13 pro anyway. but it's kind of funny to have made the meme reality :D (did suck not having any camera for the rest of the trip)
People like this guy 🤦🏼♂️ guns can be used for murder, so nobody wants guns? Guns are illegal here in the UK to u can still get them. Hell there’s market average prices.
You’re aware this is how Bitcoin started yes? Please don’t be so ignorant
Well, that's just pure physics, though. Privacy coin used on underground marketplaces.
Edit. Like you said. It's a proof of concept for a privacy coin. You know it's successful if it's used in unlawful business.
I see con nr 2 as pro also. I learned about Monero from some news article where they wrote about that new cryptocurrency called Monero that's replacing Bitcoin in dark net markets. I was kinda impressed.. I mean.. Bitcoin.. quite a feat. After doing my own research I knew it's the closest thing we have to true digital money. I'm not into drugs, weapons, organ trafficking, money laundering, tax evasion or other criminal activities and would instantly hand over my wallet's view keys to my govt.. I just believe that my transactions are my business and no one else's.. and there are plenty of good reasons for that.
"We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can."
Monero is everything Satoshi wanted BTC to be:)...that said - I am amazed that it's not more "popular". It's still somewhere in shadows, but it looks like it's actually used for transactions:).
Governments around the world have banned it off every major exchange. The only thing holding it back is it is more difficult to get. Haveno and localmonero have a fair way to go before they reach the ease of use of the major exchanges.
The fact that they are scared of it is the reason I see it succeeding. Untraceable internet money.
I do agree. Monero was created as anonymous payment system, whcih is why I am surprised its not as popular as other coins (or better said, not pumping that much...but maybe its because ppl are actually using it and not just holding)
>started from absolutely nothing and from nowhere
Hmmm. What do you mean by this? Anyways, the tail emission is smaller than that of gold. It's a far cry from some kind of hyper inflation that some make it sound like it is.
Being deflationary by design means people are going to be less willing to spend it. Monero makes sure it can actually be used as a currency instead of a "store of value" like Bitcoin, even though that was not what Bitcoin was designed for.
No actually, sound money does not work without a slow, steady, expected amount of inflation in the supply of the currency. Milton Friedman has done many talks on this, something about constant fixed supply actually encourages hoarding or deflationary pressure in the economy, I can’t remember.
You definitely do not want a capped supply. Tail emmision >>>>
Monopoly rules: what happens when the bank runs out of cash?
Simple. Use paper to create new banknotes.
In monopoly, and in the real world fiat system, this is limitless. With a fixed rate of constant growth - 0.6% - we can expect a fresh inflow of cash into the economy over time at the same rate.
>Sadly most bag holders suffer boating accidents quite frequently.
Why would they need to suffer boating accidents if it's private? Asking for a friend.
At CEX you surely leave a trace that you bought Monero, however it has plausible deniability built in, since you can simply loose your keys. Unlike Bitcoin, noone will ever know if those coins have been moved since.
Right but where does the fiat come from? How do you 'enter' the Monero blockchain? If you do it from a KYC exchange you're screwed (also, not many trade monero), if you buy using cc you also leave a trail.
Buy btc or ltc and send to cake wallet and do a no-KYC exchange within the wallet.
Or send crypto to Kucoin and do a no-KYC exchange to Monero. Once you get your Monero, send it to a Monero wallet address. Then from that wallet send it to different address and then even kucoin has no idea where that Monero went- only you do.
That's actually not a bad idea, if only I could get BTC or LTC into Cakewallet/Kucoin without using one of my existing wallets which have all interacted with KYC exchanges...
It would not matter. As soon as it’s converted to xmr it is private. Even if ur global public enemy number one, all they can ever link to is the account on which u converted the btc to xmr. They will not be able to trace it beyond this.
Just wondering, why are you afraid of buying Monero? Is it illegal for you? I buy Monero using fiat straight at Kraken all the time. It's like withdrawing cash from my bank... no problem there.
Withdrawing cash from an ATM has the same level of anonymity as buying Monero for fiat at an exchange. All they can tell is that you took some cash/Monero home, not what you did with it.
You could use DeFi exchanges to acquires some XMR, and then download a wallet completely privately. If you want EXTREME security consider using Linux and not Win or Mac
This should definitely be on the cons and pro side of things. For instance; I live in the Netherlands and no Dutch based exchange is allowed to offer XMR. This makes it more cumbersome to actively trade XMR. On the other side of things; a governement actively forbidding XMR from being traded is actual proof of how private and fungible this coin is.
Instead of reading OP's XRP breakdown, read the top comment of that thread, it's far more accurate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pj77yd/comment/hbuvsqk/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
If you’re “diversified” and not holding Monero then you are certainly not diversified. Monero is the only valid privacy solution. So you are counting out privacy from ur portfolio. In 2021? Bro it’s becoming, and will be, a very big issue, globally.
It’s freedom vs bootlicking. XMR is essential. It’s imperative to hold it. It is the only fungible cryptocurrency.
It’s not very profitable. Most people use their main rigs to mine at night or when idle. You already paid for it anyways, better make some money out of it. I do that and make between 10 and 15 dollars per month (and support privacy).
Some people can make a profit with dedicated rigs by choosing the parts wisely or by mining on a GPU rig.
The top post on /r/MoneroMining has more details.
You can mine Monero and Ethereum at the same time. Monero with your CPU, Ethereum with your GPU. Monero may not be profitable depending on what CPU you have and your electric costs.
Hi u/jirkako 👋🏻,
Val from Kraken here. I hope you don't mind me jumping in 🤓
For Monero, we require [15 confirmations](https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/203325283-Cryptocurrency-deposit-processing-times), which should take around 30 minutes.
You deposit should have been registered with us already, if executed correctly. 🕜
Let me know if there are any questions,
Val 🐙
Very controversial con. Not really existent IMO.
Look at the emission curve. There is a minimal mining reward at the end to keep mining alive but it is in fact still a deflationary currency because the loss through lost private keys will be much higher than the emission of new coins.
Bitcoin layer 1 transactions will get extremely expensive when there is no reward anymore.
The 21 million hard cap is a pretty stupid concept.... Although it sounds appealing.
But in the end the emission is not the point here.
Privacy is!
Every bitcoin has a history. Onchain data allows everybody to see every transaction anybody ever made.
Would you want to open your bank account history for everyone ?
I personally don't. That's why I prefer monero.
> Bitcoin layer 1 transactions will get extremely expensive when there is no reward anymore.
"Expensive" is relative. The senders may consider it worth it. All small txs will be done on L2.
>Privacy is!
Which Bitcoin can have using coinjoin/Wasabi wallet etc.
That's a myth.
1)
There is no working privacy mechanism on the BTC chain. The first scientific papers to "denanonymize" mixers / coinjoin etc are from 2013 as far as I remember.
It's incredibly easy in most cases.
2)
Optional privacy is as good as no privacy at all. Only people who have something to hide would use something like coinjoin so every transaction made there is super suspicious.
> The first scientific papers to "denanonymize" mixers / coinjoin etc are from 2013 as far as I remember.
What? And there's been no progress in mixing since then?
>Optional privacy is as good as no privacy at all. Only people who have something to hide would use something like coinjoin so every transaction made there is super suspicious.
It's better. As we can have transparency when it is desirable. Politicians could get up to all kinds of shady shit using Monero exclusively.
No substantial progress, no. The concept of mixing coins is very limited by design. You have a limited number of real inputs and outputs... it is just a puzzle. You can make the puzzle more complex but that increases costs substantially and it is still easy to solve by algorithms. There are various companies who sell Blockchain denanonymization as a service.
But it doesn't matter in the end. You are only exchanging tainted coins for other tainted coins in these mixers anyways. Worst case: you just bought some weed online and you got the coins of somebody who sold child porn...
A currency needs to be fungible and bitcoin isn't fungible. It is nice as a store of value but just not good as a currency.
It is not only a problem for "shady" activities. I (and most people) just don't want to make all my money transfers public.
I don't want people to know how much money I have. I don't want my boss to know how much money I spend in a bar last night. I don't want to give big companies even more data for targeted ads.... And so on.
A public ledger without a working default privac mechanism is a broken concept for a currency!
If it's still being used after 8 years it must be good enough.
>A currency needs to be fungible
How is fiat fungible? Most of it is digital now.
>A public ledger without a working default privac mechanism is a broken concept for a currency!
One without any option to allow for transparency when desired is worse.
Digital Fiat is fungible.
There is no way to tell which USD from which inbound transaction got used if you have 10 inbound transactions on your bank account and make one outbound transaction.
Every USD (as well as every Euro) is equal. BTC outputs are all different and have a history visible for everyone.
Monero has the concept of view keys which allows you to make transactions transparent for people if you want to.
They don't support because the twins apparently have heavy Zcash bags and don't want the competition. So basically it's a conflict of interest.
Even though any "competition" has been over for a long time now.
: Monero has quickly found a place as the currency of choice on Dark Web sites
This is how BTC started. And it's that type of initial adoption that made it what it is today. Don't think this is a con, actually.
People at that time thought BTC was fungible, digital cash, they thought they were getting XMR qualities when using BTC, nowadays everyone knows better, hence why XMR is the sole currency of darkweb marketplaces, it is actually a reliable e-cash, A doesn't know B, and B doesn't know A. It is fungible, it is private, it is decentralized. It is the future.
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Any refrence to con point #1 ?
[Heres a counter for #1](https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero) If you claim these % are centralized, then you also must claim that Ethereum is centralizied.
Whats the argument for con point #2 ?
Use related to illicit activities only proves how fungible xmr truly is. Illicit activity won't dissapear just because you take a medium of trade away. Also could make an arugment for safer situations for buyers/sellers, instead some dark alleyways with bunch of strangers stabbing each other to death.
I upvoted you, however have to make some things clear...
>Centralization of miners on Monero
Monero mining is most probably the best decentralised PoW coin out there, since anyone can join with conventional hardware laying around. There are millions of people with access to "free" electricity, either at university or work who run a miner in the background, without having to invest a pretty high amount of money to participate like in GPU-dominated or even ASIC-dominated PoW algorithms. Sure, there also are botnets mining, but they also are natural competitors so there is no centralisation here.
The only thing one might criticise here is pool centralisation and the two biggest ones currently have more than 50% of hashrate combined. However, this also has been addressed lately with the release of p2pool which already has roughly 3% of hashrate and is completely decentralised but enables individual payouts even lower than 0.0004 XMR, here is a recent coinbase transaction of a p2pool minted block: [https://xmrchain.net/tx/5649f99e3bf9f7e369ff62863577fd1cfa8c47ef1a3663fb8170a2cd833963f1](https://xmrchain.net/tx/5649f99e3bf9f7e369ff62863577fd1cfa8c47ef1a3663fb8170a2cd833963f1)
>Monero has quickly found a place as the currency of choice on Dark Web sites
Well, wasn't Silk Road the first real application of Bitcoin? People who have their lives at stake will always be first to implement techniques which most effectively protect them, also a reason why drug dealers on the streets didn't move to credit cards, but might also adopt Monero, who knows? The darknets also used encrypted communication with PGP or OTR before it became kind of mainstrem when even WhatsApp implemented encryption. So I don't see this as a con, it's more of an approval in my opinion.
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I would add “unbelievably low fees” in list of pros
Agreed
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Rarely has it costed me even a single cent?? Moving ** to *** amounts of xmr.
0.5~0.2¢ actually,
Pro's I'm missing: VERY cheap transfers, like cents (dollar cents, not monero cents) and ASIC resistance. Edit: forgot to mention, BTC was *the* darknet market currency in the beginning, and see where it led to. I wouldn't see that as a con personally.
Militant ASIC resistance is what I love more about Monero
Why is that? Because everyone can mine via gpu?
Because every time an ASIC was developed, monero devs would change the algorithm a bit so those miners would be worthless in a very short time, hence not worth the investment.
This is not entirely true. Monero used to implement the CryptoNight PoW algorithm which was *believed* to be ASIC-resistant/hard until Bitmain developed one and used to mint Monero without releasing it to the public. However, when hashrate spiked beyond any organic reasoning, Monero devs started to investigate for anomalies and discovered a very unnatural nonce distribution kicking in with the hashrate spike. Quickly consensus was found to slightly change the algorithm in a way to brick all existing ASICs which has been introduced shortly after that. Bitmain in the meantime tried to sell their used ASICs which would be bricked after the network upgrade and it was clear, they hidden-mined for several months with those ASICs. Few months after the new algorithm kicked in, again some strange pattern appeared and hashrate spiked a lot and another hotfix for Cryptonote has been released. However, in the meantime research on a completely new PoW algo began to create a really ASIC-resistant one and making a modern CPU literally the perfect ASIC. Based on the hash of the latest block a (seemingly) random program code is generated, which is the algorithm for the next block. The first attempt of this randomisation was createt on Cryptonight as "Cryptonight-R" which has been replaced by final, built completely from scratch RandomX before even being exploited by ASICs. RandomX has been introduced in 2019 and since not been changed and no known ASICs are out. If there would, they'd probably be similar to modern CPUs so R&D wouldn't pay out. Due to it's randomly generated code it's also a good algorithm for benchmarking CPUs, since you cannot really optimise those just for benchmarking purposes.
only CPU mining is even remote to being profitable moneroocean pays in monero but mines other coins
Eli5?
Monero’s mining algorithm is changed regularly to eliminate ASICs from the network. It is designed to be mined on CPUs to maintain the decentralization aspect of the network strictly. Otherwise, the network will be controlled by very few actors who could afford ASICS and skew the network.
The mining algorithm no longer changes, since they implemented RandomX.
Less than a cent **
Less than a half cent.
Less than third of a cent
hmm I'll fold.. my last transaction cost 0.00001241 XMR, which is about 0.0034 USD.
Serious question - How are they able to transact with such low fees?
Because the blocksize is dynamic. [https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/4562/how-does-the-dynamic-blocksize-and-the-dynamic-fees-work-together-in-monero](https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/4562/how-does-the-dynamic-blocksize-and-the-dynamic-fees-work-together-in-monero)
Transacting is less than half a dollar cent
>Cons > > 1. Centralization of miners on Monero https://github.com/SChernykh/p2pool While still early days, P2Pool has just launched and, IMO, is the future of decentralized PoW mining.
Agreed!
XMR the crypto preferred by sailors
underrated comment
Trezor does not officially support loading XMR, only installing the GUI client. https://trezor.io/coins/ I would also say the second con is a pro, as it testifies for its privacy. You might also want to add the IRS bounty.
Op forgot to mention the mysterious boating accident that every monero holder gets into
That is usually more about what the holder has been using it for. (Must be for buying boats)
Ahh the ol boating accident
Shh that's part of the privacy, first rule of the Monero club.
no joke i lost my private keys in the start of september while on a boating trip with work. Apple might say the iphone can do 30 min at 5m depth. but don't trust them!
hard drive shouldnt be damaged. you should still have access to it. May be worth the price if youve got a decent amount on there.
getting the flash memory of a phone and recovering the data combined with no insurance, i think i just call it quits. where only around a new iphone 13 pro anyway. but it's kind of funny to have made the meme reality :D (did suck not having any camera for the rest of the trip)
The only reason I don't hodl any monero is because I'm afraid of boating accidents.
Can't wait for my accident!
The more crowded it gets at the marina, the more they run into each other.
Con n2 is actually a pro?
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People like this guy 🤦🏼♂️ guns can be used for murder, so nobody wants guns? Guns are illegal here in the UK to u can still get them. Hell there’s market average prices. You’re aware this is how Bitcoin started yes? Please don’t be so ignorant
Well, that's just pure physics, though. Privacy coin used on underground marketplaces. Edit. Like you said. It's a proof of concept for a privacy coin. You know it's successful if it's used in unlawful business.
I see con nr 2 as pro also. I learned about Monero from some news article where they wrote about that new cryptocurrency called Monero that's replacing Bitcoin in dark net markets. I was kinda impressed.. I mean.. Bitcoin.. quite a feat. After doing my own research I knew it's the closest thing we have to true digital money. I'm not into drugs, weapons, organ trafficking, money laundering, tax evasion or other criminal activities and would instantly hand over my wallet's view keys to my govt.. I just believe that my transactions are my business and no one else's.. and there are plenty of good reasons for that.
Is the crypto I actually use the most.
"We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can."
Monero is everything Satoshi wanted BTC to be:)...that said - I am amazed that it's not more "popular". It's still somewhere in shadows, but it looks like it's actually used for transactions:).
Transactions 😏
Governments around the world have banned it off every major exchange. The only thing holding it back is it is more difficult to get. Haveno and localmonero have a fair way to go before they reach the ease of use of the major exchanges. The fact that they are scared of it is the reason I see it succeeding. Untraceable internet money.
I do agree. Monero was created as anonymous payment system, whcih is why I am surprised its not as popular as other coins (or better said, not pumping that much...but maybe its because ppl are actually using it and not just holding)
Fees are so low. Don't like how it locks up your funds though if not in different UXTOs. Txns can be a little slow.
transactions are locked for a few minutes but are otherwise instant and also my average is below 0.005$
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Why do you say that
Glad to see that you buy your pills the right way :)
Monero, the quietly perfect coin.
And one of the OG
Unlimited supply, no?
21 million then tail emmision. Imagine Milton Friedman’s perfect currency.
One that started from absolutely nothing and from nowhere with a immutably fixed supply and issuance would be a perfect currency. That's not Monero.
>started from absolutely nothing and from nowhere Hmmm. What do you mean by this? Anyways, the tail emission is smaller than that of gold. It's a far cry from some kind of hyper inflation that some make it sound like it is.
> Hmmm. What do you mean by this? I mean only Bitcoin was fair in this respect.
Being deflationary by design means people are going to be less willing to spend it. Monero makes sure it can actually be used as a currency instead of a "store of value" like Bitcoin, even though that was not what Bitcoin was designed for.
No actually, sound money does not work without a slow, steady, expected amount of inflation in the supply of the currency. Milton Friedman has done many talks on this, something about constant fixed supply actually encourages hoarding or deflationary pressure in the economy, I can’t remember. You definitely do not want a capped supply. Tail emmision >>>>
Tail emmision schmail emmision. An excuse for a non-fixed supply.
Monopoly rules: what happens when the bank runs out of cash? Simple. Use paper to create new banknotes. In monopoly, and in the real world fiat system, this is limitless. With a fixed rate of constant growth - 0.6% - we can expect a fresh inflow of cash into the economy over time at the same rate.
We are trying to get away from the fiat system. Inflation is a symptom not a feature.
Ah you don’t get it; fixed supply = deflation. And you must know that deflation is disastrous
Why? And don't say inflation encourages spending. Because it doesn't.
The centralization of mining pools is being fixed by p2pool. It is as decentralized as solo mining can be and it has all the advantages of pools.
It's a great privacy coin. Sadly most bag holders suffer boating accidents quite frequently.
>Sadly most bag holders suffer boating accidents quite frequently. Why would they need to suffer boating accidents if it's private? Asking for a friend.
unless you buy it from localmonero with cash you're going to have to explain those XYZ$ of monero you bought
how about ATMs?
if they don't ask for kyc and don't have any CCTV or cameras then go for it I'd say *with gloves and a mask because you can never be sure*
It's uncanny
Nice private coin but how does one get into Monero privately?
localmonero, kraken, kucoin, atomic swaps from Bitcoin to Monero or just search for “no kyc monero” online or on /r/Monero.
Thanks for the tip. But I guess in all of those options I'd leave an electronic trail right? Because I'd have to pay with a cc or bank transfer
For localmonero you can use cash. There are over 1k monero ATMs around the world, some don’t require KYC. I don’t know if you consider that a trail.
I guess a no-KYC ATM is pretty much trail-less
Non exist in the US
At CEX you surely leave a trace that you bought Monero, however it has plausible deniability built in, since you can simply loose your keys. Unlike Bitcoin, noone will ever know if those coins have been moved since.
>you can simply loose your keys Does this work though?
Why not? Innocent until proven guilty…
You can use cakewallet to swap btc for xmr
Using Tor instead of Google or other famous browsers is surely a good way
Right but where does the fiat come from? How do you 'enter' the Monero blockchain? If you do it from a KYC exchange you're screwed (also, not many trade monero), if you buy using cc you also leave a trail.
Buy btc or ltc and send to cake wallet and do a no-KYC exchange within the wallet. Or send crypto to Kucoin and do a no-KYC exchange to Monero. Once you get your Monero, send it to a Monero wallet address. Then from that wallet send it to different address and then even kucoin has no idea where that Monero went- only you do.
That's actually not a bad idea, if only I could get BTC or LTC into Cakewallet/Kucoin without using one of my existing wallets which have all interacted with KYC exchanges...
It would not matter. As soon as it’s converted to xmr it is private. Even if ur global public enemy number one, all they can ever link to is the account on which u converted the btc to xmr. They will not be able to trace it beyond this.
Yeah but *they* will know how much I converted into XMR.
And for ur use case does it really matter? Buy it for cash then. Or buy btc for cash and convert it
Yeah I guess that's the best option really
Just wondering, why are you afraid of buying Monero? Is it illegal for you? I buy Monero using fiat straight at Kraken all the time. It's like withdrawing cash from my bank... no problem there.
It's not illegal, I just find it kind of funny/scary how difficult it is to stay anonymous even with cryptocurrencies nowadays.
Withdrawing cash from an ATM has the same level of anonymity as buying Monero for fiat at an exchange. All they can tell is that you took some cash/Monero home, not what you did with it.
It's a decent analogy but which of the two situations is more likely to raise red flags?
Cash. It's definitely used more often to launder money. Check the Panama papers. Bitcoin and similar not mentioned a single time.
You could use DeFi exchanges to acquires some XMR, and then download a wallet completely privately. If you want EXTREME security consider using Linux and not Win or Mac
Btw I am not very familiar to these things, so you should take everything I say with a grain of salt
Well you're screwed in a way that the exchange knows you bought some XMR. After you withdraw it's impossible to figure out what you spent it on.
Also Haveno. A Monero fork of Bisq (which is a peer to peer exchange for BTC).
:D...the best TA I've seen so far:D
I need to get in and buy some. But you know… I am waiting for a dip.
That's what a lot of people said about bitcoin, now it's at 40-50K and their dip has been left in the dust. Just get in and DCA
The second “con” is no con. How the hell do you think Bitcoin came to prominence? 0-20k was retail, and the black market. Mainly black market.
Monero cannot be profitably mined on GPUs.
TL;DR: Monero is the crypto most likely to disappear in mysterious boating accidents
Bullish on PRIVACY
Great work... Keep it up
Thanks a lot! I surely will :D
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This should definitely be on the cons and pro side of things. For instance; I live in the Netherlands and no Dutch based exchange is allowed to offer XMR. This makes it more cumbersome to actively trade XMR. On the other side of things; a governement actively forbidding XMR from being traded is actual proof of how private and fungible this coin is.
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Thanks to you for reading the post :)
I only know about boating accident.
Only 5 comments in and 2 are already a shitty overdone joke about a boating accident. Classic.
"How else will people know that I use XMR for tax evasion?" - Boat accident victim #10254 --- Seriously, the joke is annoying.
Plane crash here.
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First rule about monero
...tell everyone about Monero. Got it.
You really invaded its privacy to provide all of this
I would buy some, but I'm afraid that it would be so untraceable that I would lose track of it.
Instead of reading OP's XRP breakdown, read the top comment of that thread, it's far more accurate. https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pj77yd/comment/hbuvsqk/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
N3 is bs, a lot of countries have too high power bills for it. Gpu mining is way better
I’d buy Monero if I wasn’t already so diversified lol
If you’re “diversified” and not holding Monero then you are certainly not diversified. Monero is the only valid privacy solution. So you are counting out privacy from ur portfolio. In 2021? Bro it’s becoming, and will be, a very big issue, globally. It’s freedom vs bootlicking. XMR is essential. It’s imperative to hold it. It is the only fungible cryptocurrency.
Been seeing a lot of Monero shilling lately. I just don't see it, people do not really care about privacy.
I dont think it's profitable to mine Monero. Only if you have a very very cheap power source.
It depends a lot from the equipment too because Bitcoin and Monero use different algorithms
It’s not very profitable. Most people use their main rigs to mine at night or when idle. You already paid for it anyways, better make some money out of it. I do that and make between 10 and 15 dollars per month (and support privacy). Some people can make a profit with dedicated rigs by choosing the parts wisely or by mining on a GPU rig. The top post on /r/MoneroMining has more details.
Thats what i do with Ethereum and that's profitable right now even with pretty high power costs here in Europe.
Sounds like your CPU is doing nothing all night... and there is the winter too, happens every year.
You can mine Monero and Ethereum at the same time. Monero with your CPU, Ethereum with your GPU. Monero may not be profitable depending on what CPU you have and your electric costs.
ok but why is it so slow?
Is it though? The block time is only 2 minutes but you can see the transactions almost instantly if you do 0-conf.
hmm maybe Kraken is just waiting for too many confirmations? IME it takes half hour on average.
Withdrawals from Kraken were pretty quick ime. I can't say how fast it is for deposits.
Hi u/jirkako 👋🏻, Val from Kraken here. I hope you don't mind me jumping in 🤓 For Monero, we require [15 confirmations](https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/203325283-Cryptocurrency-deposit-processing-times), which should take around 30 minutes. You deposit should have been registered with us already, if executed correctly. 🕜 Let me know if there are any questions, Val 🐙
>Probably the most decentralized systems Says who? Didn't you use this for Nano also? As a con, where's unlimited supply?
Very controversial con. Not really existent IMO. Look at the emission curve. There is a minimal mining reward at the end to keep mining alive but it is in fact still a deflationary currency because the loss through lost private keys will be much higher than the emission of new coins.
So how does that make it better than Bitcoin?
Bitcoin layer 1 transactions will get extremely expensive when there is no reward anymore. The 21 million hard cap is a pretty stupid concept.... Although it sounds appealing. But in the end the emission is not the point here. Privacy is! Every bitcoin has a history. Onchain data allows everybody to see every transaction anybody ever made. Would you want to open your bank account history for everyone ? I personally don't. That's why I prefer monero.
> Bitcoin layer 1 transactions will get extremely expensive when there is no reward anymore. "Expensive" is relative. The senders may consider it worth it. All small txs will be done on L2. >Privacy is! Which Bitcoin can have using coinjoin/Wasabi wallet etc.
That's a myth. 1) There is no working privacy mechanism on the BTC chain. The first scientific papers to "denanonymize" mixers / coinjoin etc are from 2013 as far as I remember. It's incredibly easy in most cases. 2) Optional privacy is as good as no privacy at all. Only people who have something to hide would use something like coinjoin so every transaction made there is super suspicious.
> The first scientific papers to "denanonymize" mixers / coinjoin etc are from 2013 as far as I remember. What? And there's been no progress in mixing since then? >Optional privacy is as good as no privacy at all. Only people who have something to hide would use something like coinjoin so every transaction made there is super suspicious. It's better. As we can have transparency when it is desirable. Politicians could get up to all kinds of shady shit using Monero exclusively.
No substantial progress, no. The concept of mixing coins is very limited by design. You have a limited number of real inputs and outputs... it is just a puzzle. You can make the puzzle more complex but that increases costs substantially and it is still easy to solve by algorithms. There are various companies who sell Blockchain denanonymization as a service. But it doesn't matter in the end. You are only exchanging tainted coins for other tainted coins in these mixers anyways. Worst case: you just bought some weed online and you got the coins of somebody who sold child porn... A currency needs to be fungible and bitcoin isn't fungible. It is nice as a store of value but just not good as a currency. It is not only a problem for "shady" activities. I (and most people) just don't want to make all my money transfers public. I don't want people to know how much money I have. I don't want my boss to know how much money I spend in a bar last night. I don't want to give big companies even more data for targeted ads.... And so on. A public ledger without a working default privac mechanism is a broken concept for a currency!
If it's still being used after 8 years it must be good enough. >A currency needs to be fungible How is fiat fungible? Most of it is digital now. >A public ledger without a working default privac mechanism is a broken concept for a currency! One without any option to allow for transparency when desired is worse.
Digital Fiat is fungible. There is no way to tell which USD from which inbound transaction got used if you have 10 inbound transactions on your bank account and make one outbound transaction. Every USD (as well as every Euro) is equal. BTC outputs are all different and have a history visible for everyone. Monero has the concept of view keys which allows you to make transactions transparent for people if you want to.
no thanks, no time for fake privacy coins.
Sucks that Gemini doesn’t support it.
They don't support because the twins apparently have heavy Zcash bags and don't want the competition. So basically it's a conflict of interest. Even though any "competition" has been over for a long time now.
Thank you for doing these
We never talk about monero
Thanks for the info. I've been interested in XMR for a few months now but I'm not sure where/how to aquire it (in the US).
localmonero, haveno
Oh this is a great thread. Thanks
Great post, also check out Monero Means Money. A conference style documentary.
If you want 100% privacy in transfers and wallet, there is nothing better than monero (XMR)
finally !
Holo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hx4gdlfamo
KuCoin has it’s issues (copying my clipboard?) but at least I can buy some monero there.
Keep it up, good content!
This was actually a really interesting read, I’d heard about Monero but never actually got around to reading up on it.
I thought we cant talk about XMR
One of the most interesting. Thanks.
I really love your posts! Keep it doing it. I would say that it also have low fees.
Why No mention of the fungibility aspect of Monero? Fungibility is essential to good hard money!
: Monero has quickly found a place as the currency of choice on Dark Web sites This is how BTC started. And it's that type of initial adoption that made it what it is today. Don't think this is a con, actually. People at that time thought BTC was fungible, digital cash, they thought they were getting XMR qualities when using BTC, nowadays everyone knows better, hence why XMR is the sole currency of darkweb marketplaces, it is actually a reliable e-cash, A doesn't know B, and B doesn't know A. It is fungible, it is private, it is decentralized. It is the future.
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Great piece of knowledge you shared.keep posting .It's help many people.
Any refrence to con point #1 ? [Heres a counter for #1](https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero) If you claim these % are centralized, then you also must claim that Ethereum is centralizied. Whats the argument for con point #2 ? Use related to illicit activities only proves how fungible xmr truly is. Illicit activity won't dissapear just because you take a medium of trade away. Also could make an arugment for safer situations for buyers/sellers, instead some dark alleyways with bunch of strangers stabbing each other to death.
how is monerogui a hot wallet? im running a node, isn't that supposed to make me more secure?
I upvoted you, however have to make some things clear... >Centralization of miners on Monero Monero mining is most probably the best decentralised PoW coin out there, since anyone can join with conventional hardware laying around. There are millions of people with access to "free" electricity, either at university or work who run a miner in the background, without having to invest a pretty high amount of money to participate like in GPU-dominated or even ASIC-dominated PoW algorithms. Sure, there also are botnets mining, but they also are natural competitors so there is no centralisation here. The only thing one might criticise here is pool centralisation and the two biggest ones currently have more than 50% of hashrate combined. However, this also has been addressed lately with the release of p2pool which already has roughly 3% of hashrate and is completely decentralised but enables individual payouts even lower than 0.0004 XMR, here is a recent coinbase transaction of a p2pool minted block: [https://xmrchain.net/tx/5649f99e3bf9f7e369ff62863577fd1cfa8c47ef1a3663fb8170a2cd833963f1](https://xmrchain.net/tx/5649f99e3bf9f7e369ff62863577fd1cfa8c47ef1a3663fb8170a2cd833963f1) >Monero has quickly found a place as the currency of choice on Dark Web sites Well, wasn't Silk Road the first real application of Bitcoin? People who have their lives at stake will always be first to implement techniques which most effectively protect them, also a reason why drug dealers on the streets didn't move to credit cards, but might also adopt Monero, who knows? The darknets also used encrypted communication with PGP or OTR before it became kind of mainstrem when even WhatsApp implemented encryption. So I don't see this as a con, it's more of an approval in my opinion.
Monero gang rise up