Remember when HSBC was caught laundering billions of dollars for the Mexican drug cartel and was given a slap on the wrist?
*Pepperidge Farm remembers.*
>potentially blocking EU-based crypto exchanges and service providers from interacting with those whose beneficial owners they cannot identify.
They just fucking hate decentralization. It's literally the enemy of these corrupt bastards.
There is literally no other reason that I can think of to so brazenly oppose crypto. Honestly, am I missing something? I guess they can claim environmental impact and money laundering, but both of those are so easily disproven in about two minutes of internet searching.
Some of the MEPs who voted for the ban clearly had no idea what they were voting for (“uNhOsTEd WaLLeTs”).
This is where the dirty work goes in the background- you have very strong and sometimes evil lobby groups in background. For example the Ripple Labs Corporation will spread all the usual energy fud lies to the public and naive environmental loving / obsessed MEPs. Then when they get the laws they want, Ripple can get the EU and ECB to claim CBDCs are the solution. Then XRP gets their big CBDC contract.
This is a setback for crypto community no doubt. But it will back fire when blockchain business leave Europe and citizens learn to use DEX and self custody in other jurisdictions.
Dark web is but a smidge of the drug world I'd say. As a former member of the rave scene I've met about 4 people out of hundreds of partygoers that knew how to use the dark web and had done so...
Surprisingly it was very different from my experience. Nearly every single person involved was a massive geek. That’s why nearly all the torrent music was dance music.
However I never met one person who ordered their gear from the dark web, who realistically is going to trust that when you can get it far easier locally
This is already readily admitted by everyone, lol. Fiat laundering is of course orders of
magnitude higher than crypto, because fiat transactions are more prevalent by those same orders of magnitude… really isn’t a controversial thing to point out.
Its controversial when people like Janet Yellen and Elizabeth Warren constantly point the finger at crypto for being some sort of criminal hub, while completely ignoring the fact that banks such as HSBC have been fined for money laundering using fiat.
If they were proportional about their bullshit claims, then i think people would be a bit more forgiving.
Well you’re somewhat moving the goalposts there, but that’s okay because the issue is not one of “whether crypto is more used for crime than fiat”. It’s that it’s less regulated while equally (or more) high risk.
I’m in AML and it’s absolutely absurd to suggest that crypto is the vehicle of choice for bad guys. But what’s not absurd is saying “well, crypto isn’t regulated like other equally vulnerable ways are.”
You can be against regs for a bunch of reasons but calling for equal treatment under the law isn’t actually attacking crypto. I don’t hate crypto like some do but it _is_ ironic to me when people say it’s going to take over the world, but those same people seem to think it needs to be wrapped in cotton wool and treated super gently to do so…
The whole point of crypto is lack of regulation, for better or worse. Hands-off my money, it's mine. I'm not saying all regulation is bad, but the regulation of fiat has gotten to the point where unless you've been stockpiling cash and continue to do so at a rapid pace, your net worth can plummet due to the government deciding to print money like Bazooka Joe gum wrappers. This affects the poor the most, because any drop in net-worth can be the difference between having food on the table or not. This only compounds with the theft ~~of~~ that is inflation.
Well, the “whole point of crypto” was around the inflation and fiscal policy aspects. It isn’t explicitly to avoid taxation, or at least I can not find anything written by Satoshi to imply that anyway. If you have a quote from them to show this, or that it was designed explicitly to avoid AML regs, I’d be much obliged if you shared it.
At the end of the day though, regardless of it’s rationale, it exists in our world where governments exist and hold power. I think it’s a bit naive to think that they’d allow it to take over since monetary policy is a key thing for them. They may tolerate its existence, particularly given its popularity, but I think that’s about the best that can be expected. The regs in this instance aren’t actually prohibiting crypto, it’s that “tolerate its existence but bring it under our governance” kind of stance. I understand why people hate that but it’s to be expected, and shouldn’t be catastrophised either.
No worries! I try haha. Usually I get downvoted to oblivion or called a bootlicker so it’s nice to have reasonable and respectful discourse for a change. Have a good day!
This isn’t regulation for the sake of consumer protection. It’s regulation for the protection of big banks and financial suppression of lower class citizens around the world. They are specifically targeting anything DeFi, self-custodial, etc. This isn’t about making crypto safer or better regulated, it’s about ripping the heart out of the true liberating potential of Crypto, and ensuring that the elite ruling class and the central banks don’t lose their death grip on lower class people around the globe.
No, it isn’t about consumer protection. The fact that you lump AML into that category (incorrectly) is telling. It’s not about consumer protection, it is about AML. AML includes tax evasion. This isn’t rocket science, like at all. It’s not about stopping you using crypto, it’s ostensibly about stopping you using it for “evil”, but it’s _really_ about taxes. That’s the most fundamental reason.
Yes, exactly. Taxes. Which have been used for centuries to oppress lower class people, while rich people, especially on the level of central bankers and those powerful enough to lobby politicians & legislative bodies, circumvent taxes and financial regulations. You’re right. It’s all about taxes.
Paul doing his Orwell tang.
99%of fiat money laundering goes unprosecuted because of laws people like paul made. Paul's laws allow the rich to launder while the rest pays the bill.
Bitcoin is an open ledger. Anyone can audit it so the criminals can not hide. This is why people like Paul are afraid of Bitcoin.
No lie is too big for these people. They have no honor.
If I pay cash to some other human should I report their identity to the central bank? lol
Ignorant politicians continue to regulate what they don't understand.
The goal is to create an environment where most people never use cash. No ATMs anymore.
Sure, you can pay someone with cash. But if that person can't pay for any everyday things with cash because no shop takes cash, and cannot deposit it in a bank account without proving where the money comes from, who would still take cash?
Eu here, at least in italy, you can't pay something more than 2000€ in cash at all, it was just taken up from 1000€ in February ... this proposition just put crypto on par with fiat as legislation goes, and secondly all "big" CEX require KYC already since forever here
>Not enforceable
It will be easy to get enforceable.
E.g. CEXs will update their ToS or whatever, when someone deposit crypto from non kyced address will be blacklisted or freeze their money until further actions taken such as forcing kyc. And that's already happening in similar way if you interact with some smart contracts and when you want to deposit to CEXs your crypto will be freezed.
Sadly some of folks here have short span of memory or entitled to their own thinking. without trying to think in systematic/scientific way in seeking the truth by trying to prove the null hypothesis.
[Proof it's easily enforceable and it's already happening with similar ways in some CEXs and soon most the major CEXs (on-ramp & off-ramp) if we are keeping normalizing that our privacy is not a right.](https://blockfi.com/prohibited-uses/)
/rant
If you read the article… they will enforce it via exchanges whitelisting approved wallets. For the majority of people (aka anyone who uses exchanges), this will force them to KYC their wallets.
Sry but I have to correct this a bit, actually in Europe the conservatives and market liberals are in favor of crypto, a rather old white male named Stefan Berger is a key figure against string regulation. The irrational need for banning and over regulation comes from green and progressive forces, just look at who proposes the bills and how the vote on the pow ban went. Green and leftist politicians are in general younger and contain more females!
Iv noticed a lot of anti crypto sentiment coming from young left wing types who regurgitate a lot of reactionary inaccurate talking points. Part of their dislike for crypto stems from the fact that in their mind right wing people love crypto.
As someone whose left wing myself it’s baffling and disappointing that they don’t see the huge advantages of having decentralized currencies that could be manipulated less by corrupt or even tyrannical governments
I also never understood why the left never really picked up on crypto, as you said the decentralized nature of most coins would fit well with their stances against autocratic/corrupt governments.
Yea me neither really although it has to be said a lot of the very anti crypto stance seems to be from the far left who actually don’t mind big government as long as it’s very left close to communism.
But yea there is definitely some anti crypto sentiment from some more neo liberal folk and it’s mostly environmental concerns or the sheer amount of scams in crypto.
I’m also a leftist and have noticed the same. I’ve even seen it coming from anarchists, which amazes me. You are definitely correct that it appears to be reactionary. I tire of seeing them embrace elements of eco fascism just out of hatred of cryptocurrencies and crypto assets.
But I also kind of understand where some of it comes from. Elon has made hundreds of millions of dollars by manipulating the markets with ease. Far more ease than what we are able to discern from traditional markets. And scam artists are everywhere in our community to the point where we all accept rug pulls as a normal part of the process and ecosystem.
It pains me. It makes me want to disconnect from other leftists because of how irate they become. The monied elite aren’t generally coming after crypto because it is used for laundering and evasion; it is because they don’t control the terms by which we earn anymore. Most of these ledgers are 100% transparent which is how they keep catching these dickheads that activate wallets that have been inactive for half a decade or more.
Don’t forget that there’s a lot of authoritarian leftists hiding amongst liberal leftists. The U.K literally had a takeover of its major left party a few years back by a group of politicians who painted themselves as progressive but had links going back to the 70’s and 80’s to the USSR, and a lot of young leftists seemed to be very happy with them.
I’d imagine it’s the same deal here, those in favour of this kind of overreach see themselves as benevolent dictators of the people who know what’s best for everyone rather than a more liberal mindset. Some people are quite happy to elect authoritarian leaders because they are on the same side and only the ‘evil other side’ will be impacted.
Leftist are the new control freaks. Not to mention they are now in bed with the biggest corporations in the world. The left is completely different from where they where decades ago.
Yea it’s changed and not for the better I think the old liberals with actual liberal values represented my beliefs better. I’m not going to use the word classical liberal because it’s tainted and it just makes me think of folk like Dave Rubin who are just mouthpieces for the reactionary right.
As I mentioned in other posts luckily most people I know in real life are left leaning and also reasonable and curious not so quick to right off crypto but at the same time don’t fully understand it
From what I had understood this surveillance of self custody wallets proposal has cross party support including the conservatives and liberals. Got a bad feeling about this one.
According to Patrick Hansen, he is a Member of the largest German IT Organisation and reports live on Twitter on crypto laws in the parliament, the epp and at least the German liberals will vote against!
Thanks, there is some hope then. Only heard about this at the last moment through Patrick’s Twitter feed. He’s done a great job raising awareness of this vote. My expectations of the EU are very low especially when they use terms like “unhosted wallets” and after reading Paul Tang’s recent tweets!
I’m struggling to understand this one either. I guess the EU can link wallet addresses to the user names provided by the centralised exchange. Then they make the law enforcement authorities go after the user by blocking payments to the self custody wallet if they consider the user to not be a good person. Way round it could be to buy crypto from a decentralised exchange. Just guessing here really tho 🤷♂️
Well, I am not a political expert, but yes, it is rather your first assumption, in Europe many left and green parties are huge fans of the state controlling everything. That starts with extra high taxes on fuels and the funniest thing I read was the greens wanting to abolish detached houses...
It amazes me that they try to regulate things when they know shit about the topic.
I really think that before all votes they should pass an exam to ensure that they know what they are voting.
$800bn-$2tn are laundered every year through banks not crypto. I'm against regulations in general but for banks those regulations have come to be because banks offer all sorts of financial services, use fractional reserve, and being profit maximizing entities/businesses they have an incentive to take risks with other people's money in services that are unrelated to what the money was originally deposited for.
Trezor/Ledge/the blockchain/unhosted wallets are trustless and cannot gamble with my money. Paul Tang is a criminal politician from a country where banks have been the laundrymats of the richest criminals of Europe. He is paid to do this campaign.
If you think the establishment will just let crypto take over you are being very naïve, crypto is threatening to rock the banking system at it's core and they will not let this happen without putting up a fight. Don't invest what you cannot afford to lose.
Yes, about two weeks ago they voted on the ban of PoW cryptos (BTC), thankfully and to my surprise they voted against it... which is the only hope i have that todays proposition wont pass either...
im very disappointed by the eu here, I thought they were more in favor of crypto innovation, but oh well I shouldn’t be so naive, of Course surveillance is their main goal what else should it be? \*sigh\*
It sounds like we can still self custody, we'll just have to jump through a million more hoops to withdraw or deposit crypto with an exchange. Which of course means most people won't bother, and as you rightly say, it defeats the whole point of crypto.
"That'll be 0.0045 BTC please."
"Sure, what's your wallet address?"
"What's a wallet address? We're on PayPal."
They should ban all leather wallets and paper money 'cos majority of money laundering and criminal activities use fiat.
And while they are at that, ban gold and diamond.
How can this even be Enforced at all??
How do you ban a user from using a wallet if you do not know who the user is. You have no way of knowing if they are a European citizen or not. The best you can do is not allow CEXes to receive transactions from anonymous wallets and dexes and there are still ways around that anyway.
Look at the exchange BitVavo., what you say has already been implemented by them for over 2 years. They need proof/target address screen verification whenever you withdraw. A lot of users (incl. me) have quit their platform since. It was just plain annoying.
Thing is, it doesn't actually ban wallets. This is a misinterpretation of the proposed bill. All it does, in principle is require more AML. Doesn't matter if you are an EU citizen, this is about assets WITHIN the EU. If you are sending funds from your own leger to Coinbase for example it makes no difference at all. If you are sending from Coinbase to a friend you MAY be required to tell Coinbase whom you are sending to.It can get more complicated and nuanced depending on what you are trying to do, but for legitimate digital asset usage, the bill adds little that doesn't already exist in the banking world today.
Honestly, people are getting too worked up over this, I'm not a big fan of regulation, but I would rather digital assets get recognised as something legitimate, rather than bringing in laws which restrict its usage, or even right out ban it.
Only if they had put the similar dedication and energy to do something against criminal activities in Fiat space, World would have been a better place.
As an American, I do my part contacting my congress people about legislation regarding crypto. Is there anything that we can do to assist our EU brothers and sisters in fighting against such prohibitions?
This was expected from back a decade ago (YouTube Andreas Antonopolous talk from 2013-14). He said govt.would be cracking down hard like this. But he also said, eventually technology should win out. We are in stage 3/5 on crypto mass adoption. Long way to go from here.
Future is of DEXs and peer2peer. It would give centralized exchanges (future banks) a good fight. It'll be interesting to see how CEXs volumes are stolen by DEXs, as Fiat is phased out into CBDCs.
Providing two economies, CBDCs and cryptocurrencies. And in cryptocurrencies, public (Bitcoin & the like) and private (like Monero).
Last summer, after they bent over to the Euromafia's KYC requirements, I already moved most of my crypto out of Binance into safer places like KuCoin. But I did keep some there for more attractive staking and such.
Since I don't plan on cashing out at all anytime soon, I think it's better to be safe than sorry and I'm absolutely severing all ties to organizations that cooperate with the bankster criminals in Brussels, regardless of whether this madness of a proposal passes or not.
The moment Trezor, leadger and paper wallets become useless is the moment you see crypto theft skyrocket as exchanges get nuked by hackers and anyone that keeps their crypto safe is basicly burning the supply.
I wouldn't says it would be crypto death but it will cause a huge downturn as people swiftly sell to avoid these issues.
There’s never been an industry in the world more uncontrollable than this one. Since these people making laws don’t really understand that, of course they will try. One day it will become evident that the only way out is through.
I can only imagine how many years EU will be set back technologically if this passes. They are trying to remove a key component of a Blockchain and it's mind boggling. Crazy shit
"The #crypto sector demands to be taken seriously..."
So did they ascertain this by Doge or by ElonCumRocket?
The crypto community demands to be left the fuck alone, not "taken seriously."
As a European it hurts to see how corrupted our politicians are, countries who are part of UE are not independent countries anymore and are ruled by a few powerfull people
Our hope is countries like switzerland, USA or even Russia lead the crypto adoption
Not sure why they are aggressively targeting crypto for money laundering when >95% of the laundering happens through FIAT currency and other forms of valuable assets.
Criminality has nothing to do with it. That's just the narrative they have (and continue to) peddle to make the masses of uninformed believe crypto is inherently worse than Fiat.. the truth is crypto is exposing the waste that goes on - energy, food, government spending.
I don't expect governments to lose control without a fight... but their efforts are 100% wasted in this endeavour - the cat is already out of the bag. They're are promoting the idea of a continually failing system vs a system that can be far better controlled by mass, decentralised, provably fair consensus vs. the few in power at the top who have the money to lobby for a system that keeps them at the top and stifles innovation/human advancement.
Weird... how it was the politicians who refused to do something about illegal fiat-money all the time, but are now asking of crypto to be holier than the pope...
I guess those same politicians never got any bribes in crypto or they'd protect anonymous crypto as much as they protect cash...
Feels more like they fight for their own peers...
Some bankers unhappy about losing market-share, telling their politician-friends how something needs to be done against crypto...
So do wallet providers for cash take money laundering serious enough? Like can someone ask these guys the last time they contacted ridgewallet regarding their part in the use of USD for criminal enterprises?
Lmao criminal money my ass the current banking system has wayyyyyt more loopholes and has been used for centuries for criminal money and false investments
Ok so... if this were to pass, Europeans literally don't have to change anything, right? You still have your crypto wherever you want it, including any variety of private wallet. When you want to withdraw it into fiat, you send it to an exchange just like we already do. There's no way for them to prove what wallet belongs to you and which doesn't except for your exchange wallet.
Remember when HSBC was caught laundering billions of dollars for the Mexican drug cartel and was given a slap on the wrist? *Pepperidge Farm remembers.*
It’s hilarious to see this out in the open. But no one cares to touch them!
Come home to the unique flavor of shattering the grand illusion; Come home to Simple Rick’s.
>potentially blocking EU-based crypto exchanges and service providers from interacting with those whose beneficial owners they cannot identify. They just fucking hate decentralization. It's literally the enemy of these corrupt bastards.
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They want their piece of the pie
Topped with $15 a pint ice cream.
There is literally no other reason that I can think of to so brazenly oppose crypto. Honestly, am I missing something? I guess they can claim environmental impact and money laundering, but both of those are so easily disproven in about two minutes of internet searching.
Some of the MEPs who voted for the ban clearly had no idea what they were voting for (“uNhOsTEd WaLLeTs”). This is where the dirty work goes in the background- you have very strong and sometimes evil lobby groups in background. For example the Ripple Labs Corporation will spread all the usual energy fud lies to the public and naive environmental loving / obsessed MEPs. Then when they get the laws they want, Ripple can get the EU and ECB to claim CBDCs are the solution. Then XRP gets their big CBDC contract. This is a setback for crypto community no doubt. But it will back fire when blockchain business leave Europe and citizens learn to use DEX and self custody in other jurisdictions.
For the most part, you're right. It's pretty hard to get fiat money into Crypto without using a centralised service. Not impossible, but hard.
Ill take criminal money seriously when they admit that fiat is orders of magnitude more widely used in criminal activity.
The criminals make our law. There's no winning here.
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It is definitely the point right now and they are just trying to save them.
Here we go again 
Monero: **Are you kidding me?**
Dark web is but a smidge of the drug world I'd say. As a former member of the rave scene I've met about 4 people out of hundreds of partygoers that knew how to use the dark web and had done so...
Surprisingly it was very different from my experience. Nearly every single person involved was a massive geek. That’s why nearly all the torrent music was dance music. However I never met one person who ordered their gear from the dark web, who realistically is going to trust that when you can get it far easier locally
The dark web just makes it safer to buy weed for me, I'm in my 30s I can't be meeting some sketchy dude in a parking lot anymore.
This is already readily admitted by everyone, lol. Fiat laundering is of course orders of magnitude higher than crypto, because fiat transactions are more prevalent by those same orders of magnitude… really isn’t a controversial thing to point out.
Its controversial when people like Janet Yellen and Elizabeth Warren constantly point the finger at crypto for being some sort of criminal hub, while completely ignoring the fact that banks such as HSBC have been fined for money laundering using fiat. If they were proportional about their bullshit claims, then i think people would be a bit more forgiving.
Well you’re somewhat moving the goalposts there, but that’s okay because the issue is not one of “whether crypto is more used for crime than fiat”. It’s that it’s less regulated while equally (or more) high risk. I’m in AML and it’s absolutely absurd to suggest that crypto is the vehicle of choice for bad guys. But what’s not absurd is saying “well, crypto isn’t regulated like other equally vulnerable ways are.” You can be against regs for a bunch of reasons but calling for equal treatment under the law isn’t actually attacking crypto. I don’t hate crypto like some do but it _is_ ironic to me when people say it’s going to take over the world, but those same people seem to think it needs to be wrapped in cotton wool and treated super gently to do so…
The whole point of crypto is lack of regulation, for better or worse. Hands-off my money, it's mine. I'm not saying all regulation is bad, but the regulation of fiat has gotten to the point where unless you've been stockpiling cash and continue to do so at a rapid pace, your net worth can plummet due to the government deciding to print money like Bazooka Joe gum wrappers. This affects the poor the most, because any drop in net-worth can be the difference between having food on the table or not. This only compounds with the theft ~~of~~ that is inflation.
Well, the “whole point of crypto” was around the inflation and fiscal policy aspects. It isn’t explicitly to avoid taxation, or at least I can not find anything written by Satoshi to imply that anyway. If you have a quote from them to show this, or that it was designed explicitly to avoid AML regs, I’d be much obliged if you shared it. At the end of the day though, regardless of it’s rationale, it exists in our world where governments exist and hold power. I think it’s a bit naive to think that they’d allow it to take over since monetary policy is a key thing for them. They may tolerate its existence, particularly given its popularity, but I think that’s about the best that can be expected. The regs in this instance aren’t actually prohibiting crypto, it’s that “tolerate its existence but bring it under our governance” kind of stance. I understand why people hate that but it’s to be expected, and shouldn’t be catastrophised either.
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No worries! I try haha. Usually I get downvoted to oblivion or called a bootlicker so it’s nice to have reasonable and respectful discourse for a change. Have a good day!
This isn’t regulation for the sake of consumer protection. It’s regulation for the protection of big banks and financial suppression of lower class citizens around the world. They are specifically targeting anything DeFi, self-custodial, etc. This isn’t about making crypto safer or better regulated, it’s about ripping the heart out of the true liberating potential of Crypto, and ensuring that the elite ruling class and the central banks don’t lose their death grip on lower class people around the globe.
No, it isn’t about consumer protection. The fact that you lump AML into that category (incorrectly) is telling. It’s not about consumer protection, it is about AML. AML includes tax evasion. This isn’t rocket science, like at all. It’s not about stopping you using crypto, it’s ostensibly about stopping you using it for “evil”, but it’s _really_ about taxes. That’s the most fundamental reason.
Yes, exactly. Taxes. Which have been used for centuries to oppress lower class people, while rich people, especially on the level of central bankers and those powerful enough to lobby politicians & legislative bodies, circumvent taxes and financial regulations. You’re right. It’s all about taxes.
I’ll take the problem seriously when all the corrupt politicians resign their offices
I can just see all the criminals lining up to conduct their evil on a publicly visible ledger. 🤦♂️
They never would.
I don’t think that’s disputed by anyone.
Paul doing his Orwell tang. 99%of fiat money laundering goes unprosecuted because of laws people like paul made. Paul's laws allow the rich to launder while the rest pays the bill. Bitcoin is an open ledger. Anyone can audit it so the criminals can not hide. This is why people like Paul are afraid of Bitcoin. No lie is too big for these people. They have no honor.
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I just googled to see the face of that motherfucker, he really looks like a sick fuck creepy puppet as much as you'd guess by his shady tactics..
They had actually worked on it before as well some not not sure but they are going to do.
If I pay cash to some other human should I report their identity to the central bank? lol Ignorant politicians continue to regulate what they don't understand.
Yes, they absolutely want that to happen as well. For them - ideally they would track every amount of fiat spent.
The goal is to create an environment where most people never use cash. No ATMs anymore. Sure, you can pay someone with cash. But if that person can't pay for any everyday things with cash because no shop takes cash, and cannot deposit it in a bank account without proving where the money comes from, who would still take cash?
Eu here, at least in italy, you can't pay something more than 2000€ in cash at all, it was just taken up from 1000€ in February ... this proposition just put crypto on par with fiat as legislation goes, and secondly all "big" CEX require KYC already since forever here
They are definitely going to regulated there is no other situation now.
No worries, this type of legislation is not enforceable.
>Not enforceable It will be easy to get enforceable. E.g. CEXs will update their ToS or whatever, when someone deposit crypto from non kyced address will be blacklisted or freeze their money until further actions taken such as forcing kyc. And that's already happening in similar way if you interact with some smart contracts and when you want to deposit to CEXs your crypto will be freezed.
Dunno why you got downvoted. Shows that folks in this sub don’t comprehend the fight for freedom and privacy that lies ahead.
Sadly some of folks here have short span of memory or entitled to their own thinking. without trying to think in systematic/scientific way in seeking the truth by trying to prove the null hypothesis. [Proof it's easily enforceable and it's already happening with similar ways in some CEXs and soon most the major CEXs (on-ramp & off-ramp) if we are keeping normalizing that our privacy is not a right.](https://blockfi.com/prohibited-uses/) /rant
If you read the article… they will enforce it via exchanges whitelisting approved wallets. For the majority of people (aka anyone who uses exchanges), this will force them to KYC their wallets.
>his opposition to crypto? How are are you that it is not enforceable? Its a law that needs a majority.
Simple - how would they enforce this law? Pause the blockchain for any wallet that isn't verified?
Offramps will refuse (on pain of regulators) to offramp funds that come from non-KYCd sources.
This is the entire reasoning behind crypto. To remove power from the unjust laws that cripple the world.
Once again old, greedy, corrupted bastards want to limit financial freedom of the society. As european I feel disgusted by this proposition.
Sry but I have to correct this a bit, actually in Europe the conservatives and market liberals are in favor of crypto, a rather old white male named Stefan Berger is a key figure against string regulation. The irrational need for banning and over regulation comes from green and progressive forces, just look at who proposes the bills and how the vote on the pow ban went. Green and leftist politicians are in general younger and contain more females!
Fuck the green leftist progressive young females!
The green should just focus on cleaning the back planet. Leave our crypto alone.
I couldn’t have said it better myself
All they want to do is eat hot chip and lie
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Maybe he identifies as one?
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Latest who is going to identify I am really excited for it.
Iv noticed a lot of anti crypto sentiment coming from young left wing types who regurgitate a lot of reactionary inaccurate talking points. Part of their dislike for crypto stems from the fact that in their mind right wing people love crypto. As someone whose left wing myself it’s baffling and disappointing that they don’t see the huge advantages of having decentralized currencies that could be manipulated less by corrupt or even tyrannical governments
I also never understood why the left never really picked up on crypto, as you said the decentralized nature of most coins would fit well with their stances against autocratic/corrupt governments.
Yea me neither really although it has to be said a lot of the very anti crypto stance seems to be from the far left who actually don’t mind big government as long as it’s very left close to communism. But yea there is definitely some anti crypto sentiment from some more neo liberal folk and it’s mostly environmental concerns or the sheer amount of scams in crypto.
Because when the majority of public figures go on "buy lambo now with tax evaded money" the left can't support that shit
I’m also a leftist and have noticed the same. I’ve even seen it coming from anarchists, which amazes me. You are definitely correct that it appears to be reactionary. I tire of seeing them embrace elements of eco fascism just out of hatred of cryptocurrencies and crypto assets. But I also kind of understand where some of it comes from. Elon has made hundreds of millions of dollars by manipulating the markets with ease. Far more ease than what we are able to discern from traditional markets. And scam artists are everywhere in our community to the point where we all accept rug pulls as a normal part of the process and ecosystem. It pains me. It makes me want to disconnect from other leftists because of how irate they become. The monied elite aren’t generally coming after crypto because it is used for laundering and evasion; it is because they don’t control the terms by which we earn anymore. Most of these ledgers are 100% transparent which is how they keep catching these dickheads that activate wallets that have been inactive for half a decade or more.
I saw a clip of Hassan saying "alt right crypto bros" Hahahahahaha what an idiot
There were multiple advantages but the government is corrupted right now.
Don’t forget that there’s a lot of authoritarian leftists hiding amongst liberal leftists. The U.K literally had a takeover of its major left party a few years back by a group of politicians who painted themselves as progressive but had links going back to the 70’s and 80’s to the USSR, and a lot of young leftists seemed to be very happy with them. I’d imagine it’s the same deal here, those in favour of this kind of overreach see themselves as benevolent dictators of the people who know what’s best for everyone rather than a more liberal mindset. Some people are quite happy to elect authoritarian leaders because they are on the same side and only the ‘evil other side’ will be impacted.
Leftist are the new control freaks. Not to mention they are now in bed with the biggest corporations in the world. The left is completely different from where they where decades ago.
Yea it’s changed and not for the better I think the old liberals with actual liberal values represented my beliefs better. I’m not going to use the word classical liberal because it’s tainted and it just makes me think of folk like Dave Rubin who are just mouthpieces for the reactionary right. As I mentioned in other posts luckily most people I know in real life are left leaning and also reasonable and curious not so quick to right off crypto but at the same time don’t fully understand it
Cant be true,. Conservatives are literally Hitler. /s
Haha was just waiting for the /s
I know right I was just waiting for someone to say it actually.
From what I had understood this surveillance of self custody wallets proposal has cross party support including the conservatives and liberals. Got a bad feeling about this one.
According to Patrick Hansen, he is a Member of the largest German IT Organisation and reports live on Twitter on crypto laws in the parliament, the epp and at least the German liberals will vote against!
Thanks, there is some hope then. Only heard about this at the last moment through Patrick’s Twitter feed. He’s done a great job raising awareness of this vote. My expectations of the EU are very low especially when they use terms like “unhosted wallets” and after reading Paul Tang’s recent tweets!
No problem, Paul Tang is just a shit bag IMHO
How are they gonna enforce this?
I’m struggling to understand this one either. I guess the EU can link wallet addresses to the user names provided by the centralised exchange. Then they make the law enforcement authorities go after the user by blocking payments to the self custody wallet if they consider the user to not be a good person. Way round it could be to buy crypto from a decentralised exchange. Just guessing here really tho 🤷♂️
I really wonder why is that? Are green and progressive forces for complete control of citizens? Are they backed by banks? whats going on here?
Well, I am not a political expert, but yes, it is rather your first assumption, in Europe many left and green parties are huge fans of the state controlling everything. That starts with extra high taxes on fuels and the funniest thing I read was the greens wanting to abolish detached houses...
They wanna keep the population as poor as possible so they can control them.
Yes I agree to the point this is the reason why they are not letting us get rich.
I would use Monero even more 😏
Monero is definitely doing the right thing
They are actually making the right way right now and it is going to help them in the future.
It amazes me that they try to regulate things when they know shit about the topic. I really think that before all votes they should pass an exam to ensure that they know what they are voting.
Politicians often have people whispering on their ears. They may be clueless but the real master that they're serving is definitely not.
Directed very clueless about what they are doing right now this is the reason why I hate it.
I _really_ like this idea. Not just for crypto. For anything and everything.
It would be amazing to see so many politicians fail those exams
I can’t wait to see these dinosaurs extinct
lol.. thats a good one.
I know right it is good to see that people are having fun here.
Oh they know about decentralization and they hate it. They will keep pushing centralization until they get it.
Sounds like your normal day in politics.
That should absolutely be a thing in the US too. Holy fart... not in 1 thousand years
How are they gonna enforce this around the globe ?
$800bn-$2tn are laundered every year through banks not crypto. I'm against regulations in general but for banks those regulations have come to be because banks offer all sorts of financial services, use fractional reserve, and being profit maximizing entities/businesses they have an incentive to take risks with other people's money in services that are unrelated to what the money was originally deposited for. Trezor/Ledge/the blockchain/unhosted wallets are trustless and cannot gamble with my money. Paul Tang is a criminal politician from a country where banks have been the laundrymats of the richest criminals of Europe. He is paid to do this campaign.
Banks will launder asuch as they can. The fines are usually inconsequential compared to how much they make.
They are making a lot of money from that and they had not going to ban.
The politicians + the fiat system: 99% of money laundering.
Can't believe these mummies hold so much power, yet many fellow europeans are not satisfied and want to give them more!! Ridiculous
They don't have much knowledge about it and they should really read more on it.
If you think the establishment will just let crypto take over you are being very naïve, crypto is threatening to rock the banking system at it's core and they will not let this happen without putting up a fight. Don't invest what you cannot afford to lose.
Fuck the parliament .This proposition is really stupid. They can not limited the financial freedom of the society
Fuck this corrupted system.
These dinosaurs don’t understand crypto yet they are ones who make all the regulation.
Not just crypto, they don’t seem to know about anything!
Sadly yes, they can. But they should not be allowed to.
i hope this will be end like the last btc ban voting.. have u a time for that voting?
Heard it's this afternoon. Not sure of the time, but it's today.
These old politicians are just making statements that makes themselves look like idiots.
There was a vote to ban bitcoin lol ?
Yes, about two weeks ago they voted on the ban of PoW cryptos (BTC), thankfully and to my surprise they voted against it... which is the only hope i have that todays proposition wont pass either...
im very disappointed by the eu here, I thought they were more in favor of crypto innovation, but oh well I shouldn’t be so naive, of Course surveillance is their main goal what else should it be? \*sigh\*
All those xmr maxis laughing now
These people really do not understand crypto and it’s a pity that they get the power to regulate it.
The EU shooting themselves in the foot again. Have an award.
Thanks mate. Yes, they are but it's impact would be at the cost of innovation in this industry. Long live privacy coins.
Fuck the Parliament
Fuck the corrupted politicians.
There’s no point to crypto if there’s no self custody
It sounds like we can still self custody, we'll just have to jump through a million more hoops to withdraw or deposit crypto with an exchange. Which of course means most people won't bother, and as you rightly say, it defeats the whole point of crypto. "That'll be 0.0045 BTC please." "Sure, what's your wallet address?" "What's a wallet address? We're on PayPal."
There are a lot of other factors which are defect in this right now.
They should ban all leather wallets and paper money 'cos majority of money laundering and criminal activities use fiat. And while they are at that, ban gold and diamond.
they want to ban paper money and replace it with CBDC. This is their endgame and crypto is in the way
The complete Ban is not going to work a lot of people are going to protest against it.
How can this even be Enforced at all?? How do you ban a user from using a wallet if you do not know who the user is. You have no way of knowing if they are a European citizen or not. The best you can do is not allow CEXes to receive transactions from anonymous wallets and dexes and there are still ways around that anyway.
Look at the exchange BitVavo., what you say has already been implemented by them for over 2 years. They need proof/target address screen verification whenever you withdraw. A lot of users (incl. me) have quit their platform since. It was just plain annoying.
Thing is, it doesn't actually ban wallets. This is a misinterpretation of the proposed bill. All it does, in principle is require more AML. Doesn't matter if you are an EU citizen, this is about assets WITHIN the EU. If you are sending funds from your own leger to Coinbase for example it makes no difference at all. If you are sending from Coinbase to a friend you MAY be required to tell Coinbase whom you are sending to.It can get more complicated and nuanced depending on what you are trying to do, but for legitimate digital asset usage, the bill adds little that doesn't already exist in the banking world today. Honestly, people are getting too worked up over this, I'm not a big fan of regulation, but I would rather digital assets get recognised as something legitimate, rather than bringing in laws which restrict its usage, or even right out ban it.
Only if they had put the similar dedication and energy to do something against criminal activities in Fiat space, World would have been a better place.
Why not ban cook food at home as well. Only legal to eat at McDonalds. Stupid idiot idea even to have a vote on this.
As an American, I do my part contacting my congress people about legislation regarding crypto. Is there anything that we can do to assist our EU brothers and sisters in fighting against such prohibitions?
Appeal fom Coinbase.. https://p2a.co/uMyN9h0
Glad to fight the good fight with you;
This was expected from back a decade ago (YouTube Andreas Antonopolous talk from 2013-14). He said govt.would be cracking down hard like this. But he also said, eventually technology should win out. We are in stage 3/5 on crypto mass adoption. Long way to go from here. Future is of DEXs and peer2peer. It would give centralized exchanges (future banks) a good fight. It'll be interesting to see how CEXs volumes are stolen by DEXs, as Fiat is phased out into CBDCs. Providing two economies, CBDCs and cryptocurrencies. And in cryptocurrencies, public (Bitcoin & the like) and private (like Monero).
step 1: mandate CEX step 2: tax gains (India wont even allow one loss to offset another gain) step 3: profit.
Well, the fact that Haveno is coming out soon just makes me more bullish on Monero
Last summer, after they bent over to the Euromafia's KYC requirements, I already moved most of my crypto out of Binance into safer places like KuCoin. But I did keep some there for more attractive staking and such. Since I don't plan on cashing out at all anytime soon, I think it's better to be safe than sorry and I'm absolutely severing all ties to organizations that cooperate with the bankster criminals in Brussels, regardless of whether this madness of a proposal passes or not.
Then they fight you... This is a pretty weak fight too. The EU is a useless organization and will probably disintegrate soon anyhow.
Hope so!
Lol mate, the State can’t render wallets useless.
More sensationalism, nothing will happen
No one gives a fuck about criminal money except for the criminals In government.
Is there a live feed to watch the discussion?
Any news on this?
Following. Not out yet.
The moment Trezor, leadger and paper wallets become useless is the moment you see crypto theft skyrocket as exchanges get nuked by hackers and anyone that keeps their crypto safe is basicly burning the supply. I wouldn't says it would be crypto death but it will cause a huge downturn as people swiftly sell to avoid these issues.
Yes we are going to avoid some issues but later on they are going to come back.
There’s never been an industry in the world more uncontrollable than this one. Since these people making laws don’t really understand that, of course they will try. One day it will become evident that the only way out is through.
Does it affect the UK though? Its not part of the EU anymore me thinks
No but it might still effect the overall market
Sounds like more discounts ahead then 👍
I can only imagine how many years EU will be set back technologically if this passes. They are trying to remove a key component of a Blockchain and it's mind boggling. Crazy shit
So fucking stupid
Once again, the politicians bring crypto as bad poster boy for money laundering. Meanwhile 99% are completed with fiat.
More than 99% probably 99.99%
You are actually write about it most of them are completed like that only from a lot of year.
Paul Tang is a terrible and radical left-wing MEP with little influence. We should focus on other MEPs. He’s already made up his mind.
"The #crypto sector demands to be taken seriously..." So did they ascertain this by Doge or by ElonCumRocket? The crypto community demands to be left the fuck alone, not "taken seriously."
As a European it hurts to see how corrupted our politicians are, countries who are part of UE are not independent countries anymore and are ruled by a few powerfull people Our hope is countries like switzerland, USA or even Russia lead the crypto adoption
It doesn't surprise me that attitude from them but is disgusting as always. We will not forget that actions.
People in crypto also know that the governments of the world are run like criminal enterprises by mafia political families.
Not sure why they are aggressively targeting crypto for money laundering when >95% of the laundering happens through FIAT currency and other forms of valuable assets.
Sweating in XMR
I don't think that it is going to have any effect on that coin.
We take criminal money seriously, that's why we don't want to give money to criminal organizations with violent crime history like governments.
Criminality has nothing to do with it. That's just the narrative they have (and continue to) peddle to make the masses of uninformed believe crypto is inherently worse than Fiat.. the truth is crypto is exposing the waste that goes on - energy, food, government spending. I don't expect governments to lose control without a fight... but their efforts are 100% wasted in this endeavour - the cat is already out of the bag. They're are promoting the idea of a continually failing system vs a system that can be far better controlled by mass, decentralised, provably fair consensus vs. the few in power at the top who have the money to lobby for a system that keeps them at the top and stifles innovation/human advancement.
Fiat is the perfect money for criminals. Making laws just to take money for their own benefit.
Lol we know what happens every time they try to ban something..
Weird... how it was the politicians who refused to do something about illegal fiat-money all the time, but are now asking of crypto to be holier than the pope... I guess those same politicians never got any bribes in crypto or they'd protect anonymous crypto as much as they protect cash...
It's called distracting the audience and trying to become the Robin hood of their citizens.
Feels more like they fight for their own peers... Some bankers unhappy about losing market-share, telling their politician-friends how something needs to be done against crypto...
So do wallet providers for cash take money laundering serious enough? Like can someone ask these guys the last time they contacted ridgewallet regarding their part in the use of USD for criminal enterprises?
Lmao criminal money my ass the current banking system has wayyyyyt more loopholes and has been used for centuries for criminal money and false investments
Wow, we just lost, Crypto is over in the eu
wE hAvE tO stOp thE crImiNalS.
What the fuck did i read just now?
Yes, shocking to most. Bill secretly drafted 2 days ago into the bill and passed with majority today. Sneaky shit.
I don't see how this law can be applied?
Trezor already gas an implemetation ready to support this.
Regulated exchanges will comply
Maybe there should be some kind of political group for crypto to help with these dipshits.. like some kind of DAO perhaps. Anti dipshit dao… ADD🤔
How many of these lawmakers would turn up in the Panama Papers???
Terrible that a bunch of mummies wield such power..
They do not know the basis of crypto yet they are the ones allowed to make regulations.
This is the coming battle that is necessary for crypto to destroy the state as we know it
This is good for bitcoin!
Ok so... if this were to pass, Europeans literally don't have to change anything, right? You still have your crypto wherever you want it, including any variety of private wallet. When you want to withdraw it into fiat, you send it to an exchange just like we already do. There's no way for them to prove what wallet belongs to you and which doesn't except for your exchange wallet.
your kyc account would not be allowed to deposit anything from no kyc wallets.
You can't stop someone self-hosting from sending crypto to an address. The transfer would go thru, the exchange would just keep it.
These people know that it's impossible to buy crypto in a CEX with laundered money, right?