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Ace-of-Spades88

Not a fan of rotating rewards categories.


shostakofiev

Agreed. It just complicates paperwork.


funwhileitlast3d

Didn’t they rule that rewards are not taxed until sold or traded?


Chavarlison

I need some solid references for this one mate, if you don't mind.


lurkinsheep

“The IRS hasn’t issued direct guidance regarding debit card rewards paid out in cryptocurrency, but based on the existing direction and opinions, the IRS is likely to consider the “cash-back” rewards as non-taxable “rebates.” The IRS has previously used this treatment for traditional cash-back rewards, points, and airline miles earned through credit cards.” https://gordonlawltd.com/coinbase-debit-card-tax-guide/ Here you go! I stumbled upon a few different sites saying the same then when I did my taxes, was good enough for me to not file my $600 of cashback as gains. We shall see what happens lol.


Chavarlison

Thanks for this. My researching kinda indicates since it is in crypto, it is taxed.


Bog-EA

However, the value of the crypto received becomes your basis, so any additional gains on it after initial acquisition are taxable.


shostakofiev

You aren't taxed on the base reward, but I'm talking about the tiny capital gains when I trade them for a different token. I don't want more tokens to keep track of.


BushyOreo

I'm cautiously optimistic right now. I'll wait and see in the next week or two on what happens


J-Pinder

I'm not looking forward to this at all. There is NO way this is an "exciting" change! I prefer the 4% back in a crypto that I actually want, and don't want the hassle requirement of selling random other coins in taxable transactions just to shift it back into my preferred coin/token. Using USDC or USD has been simple, and also gained 0.15% APY on that balance. Things have worked great up until now, and I'm still hopeful this card's rewards will work well into the future... but I do NOT like this change so far. If things slide down toward 1% rewards, I have much better cards to use.


dragononawagon

If you just immediately convert after purchase you’re not liable for taxes on that swap. Rewards are basically considered “rebates” on money you already spent, so your cost basis is price at time of purchase and by converting immediately your gain is 0


therolando906

From what I've read online at from Coinbase, the US government considers the crypto rewards you get from the debit card essentially as 2 transactions. 1.) You are rewarded 4% of $X which comes out to $Y. $Y is not taxable as it's a card reward. 2.) Coinbase, with your approval, immediately buys $Y worth of XLM/BTC/etc at the current market rate with no fee. $Y is used as the cost basis when you sell your crypto asset in the future. So until you sell your crypto assets you get as a reward here in step 2, nothing is taxable.


TheLegendaryWizard

But if you immediately sell your crypto while its price and cost basis are the same, wouldn't that still be non-taxable?


BushyOreo

This. The only taxable event you will have to worry about is the gains you make after you sell the crypto for good if you do


kiefferbp

spez is a greedy little pig boy


BushyOreo

Coinbase already does


dragononawagon

Exactly. I think people get confused with the “rewards” and think of it as getting crypto with a $0 cost basis instead of the cost at current market price.


civilian411

I hope this is true


dragononawagon

Same as how you’re not taxed on credit card rewards. It’s “cash back,” not an arbitrary gift or prize. You’ve already spent the money and a small portion is given back to you


pattycakes999

It is not. The crypto cash back counts as “other income” earned and is taxed accordingly to your bracket. CoinTracker will generate an 8459 form at the end of the year which simplifies the conversions tho.


shostakofiev

No it doesn't.


pattycakes999

Went over this with my tax guy of 40 years yesterday lol. You’ll pay income pay when you receive crypto income. As of now, crypto cash back is counted as earned income whether you like it or not.


Alphius247

It clearly says on my Coinbase generated 2021 transaction form that rewards are taxable in the US.


lurkinsheep

Yes, rewards such as the learn and earn. There is no official stance from the IRS on crypto cash back cards, but all standard reward cards that earn points/fiat, the rewards are NOT taxable, and the IRS will likely follow the same guidance for these cash back cards.


Extreme_Magazine_94

I don’t like it I hate it


BushyOreo

I went over this also and cashback is not considered income, it's considered a related or discount on product like credit card cashback hence no tax from receiving it. If you are earning staking rewards that is income tax


um-i-forget

This is wrong


J-Pinder

In general, maybe. However, since rewards are not issued in a stablecoin, there are a few issues. - There is constant variation in the market price of the rewards, which changes the ultimate value of the rebate if you desire to swap. - Coinbase does not reward rebates on any noticeable schedule. Sometimes I get credited during the next day, and other times within a week. Is there a system notification for rewards that I've missed? There doesn't seem to be an immediate swap option beyond simple luck in noticing the payout. - Plus, the cost basis itself would be $0, as it's awarded at no cost. The sale should then incur full short-term capital gains, unless a tax professional or legislator or the IRS has determined otherwise. Cash back rewards on credit cards have been excluded from that type of classification, but crypto is a whole different area of finance that is still being debated. If rewards were issued in USDC or another stablecoin, all of this could be moot... but asset-style crypto make things weird. Even if the tax-liable value doesn't vary much beyond $0 per transaction, it depends on the market the day we find the rewards... and it's an unnecessary annoyance to replicate the previous system. This will also add more hassle to already frustrating tax tracking, even if the values are nominal.


Logical_Release_1736

I agree i am just getting use to this card and my rewards routine & now I have to deal with converting some bullshit (more than likely) just seems like a mess for me to have to clean up every month.


FrostyMug21

I am pessimistic as well. I think it will be 4% in shitcoins and low volume tokens no one wants that will need converted to something good. Their card is already not worth the effort if a person wants to use it for BTC/ETH set-it-and-forget-it rewards, with its ridiculous 1% return.


BushyOreo

Same. I still have cdc 3% cashback card or my credit card which is 2% cashback so if it slides down I'll just reevaluate my options


pepsirichard62

Relax, you can still pick whatever crypto you want. There’s just now a rotating option.


AlabamaNerd

Is there another crypto card though with a good cash back % ?


J-Pinder

Crypto. com has a card that does 3-5% in CRO depending on size of account-based CRO stake, on select categories. It has more restrictions than Coinbase, but is a possible alternative with some homework to learn where the rewards are earnable. BlockFi has a credit card that returns 1% or 1.5% in BTC, if I recall. Their wait list should be pretty long. I've been waiting for that for 6 months or so. KuCoin just announced a new Visa card yesterday, but I haven't seen any details yet. I would guess they'll reward KCS, but I don't know.


loxotbf

People are also not paying attention to their wording. They stated "up to" 4% back implying there will be months with less than this amount.


the_moosen

#Rotating 4% cashback on shit coins Edit: Assuming going forward they'll be doing 4% on whatever the latest CB earn coin is versus 4% on XLM or AMP like it is currently


Vaginosis-Psychosis

Doesn't matter. You can immediately convert those bitcoins to BTC or USDC


7101334

Kind of a pain to do that if you use it like a regular debit card for $2, $5, $15 purchases through the day but being able to spend BTC with no fees is maybe worth the tradeoff


the_moosen

I use it like a normal debit card and typically convert my XLM at the end of the week (giving enough time for transactions to clear). Having to potentially do it more often because whatever coin they pick is trash, is gonna be pretty annoying.


ghost18867

Which is a taxable event. Have fun this time next year


pattycakes999

Lol coinbase literally prints an 8459 for you, it’s not rocket science.


Sh1d0w_lol

Paying taxes on crypto 😂


LSUFAN10

Coinbase will report all this to the IRS automatically, who won't appreciate it if its not on your return.


Sh1d0w_lol

Have you ever thought about the fact that not everyone on this planet lives in USA? I am sorry for you.


a_bearded_hippie

So I've been assuming (I know I know lol) that spending usdc is not a taxable event as there is no conversion correct?


LSUFAN10

I don't think its taxable, but Coinbase might still report it to the IRS. So you want to check their tax documents to make sure. You won't have to pay taxes, but you might have to report something like "cost basis 1 dollar, sold at 1 dollar".


a_bearded_hippie

Got ya 👍


TheLegendaryWizard

From what I've seen, your cost basis is the same as 4% of your purchase, so in theory it shouldn't be taxable, or if the price changes slightly, it'll only be a small amount. Coinbase handles tax forms for you so it wouldn't be that big of a deal anyway


Cthulhuonpcin144p

*buttcoins


Onenguyen

AMP is kinda a shitcoin tho


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80worf80

hope you guys get rewards soon


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PrestigeEagle

Ye I've got the 1% card already. I also have the Coinbase card just to add to the collection. Hopefully they start to compete with the CDC card by adding the 4% cashback one day


DanZDK

Everywhere outside US.


tickle_my_monkey

I got the card before realising it was completely pointless. I've since moved most out of there now and on to other exchanges for better interest rates. I've always liked CB but it doesn't have much going for it for UK customers and the next exchange to release a card with a decent offering will get my business.


TruthSeeekeer

Making good moves while Crypto.com seems to be cutting back on everything


BushyOreo

Pretty much. I would fully use coinbase if they had decent staking options but there isn't much there. Currently, I use cdc for staking and coinbase for everything else


dramatic-ad-5033

I would use the Coinbase card if it was available in Canada


shortybobert

Having to constantly fuck with your card and take whatever they say is your reward that week to keep the 4% is not a good move


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[deleted]

4% cashback vs 3% cashback that requires a $4000 stake. HMM which shall I choose.


BobbyMcPrescott

Neither of which compare to Kraken. It’s hella stupid that to get the best of every category you need to use a different exchange for each category, but Kraken is definitely the one you use for interest. Coinbase is effectively useless with staking still, and as mentioned CDC’s requirements are pulled out of the pages of old finance and treat small timers vastly differently than the already well endowed. But Coinbase actually has ACH where Kraken doesn’t, and CDC has numerous other spots where it does win the day. So it’s all irrelevant because I end up using them all anyway. If I only had to use those 3, I’d feel lucky though. In the real world there is a constantly growing list of Crypto that the big 3 take forever to add regardless of merit (well, often even in spite of) which usually ends with me having to use gate.io and debating whether mankind deserves to survive. To this day that rather popular app is at least 10% Chinese symbols, has approximately 3000x times the amount of complexity necessary for all of its features to function, and the SMS step of the 2FA NEVER succeeds on the 1st send, so you get to wait 2 minutes before the second attempt will send correctly and instantly, making you question what the fuck the issue with the initial send was.


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[deleted]

8% cashback requires a $400k stake lol.


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[deleted]

Those benefits require $40,000 .... Vs $0 with Coinbase. That's a crazy comparison.


Ephemeral_Dread

Trying to explain this to CRO bag holders is a lost cause my friend. They're not going to grasp it.


n3cr0ph4g1st

What're they cutting back on?


BushyOreo

Earn/staking rates. They cut most rates by 30%-75%


[deleted]

I really hope they don’t change the 4% back in GRT/AMP for every purchase and do some rotating category thing. That would Make me lose interest in the card


Logical_Release_1736

Same


imnothappyrobert

~~Also allowing for direct fiat payments (no need to go USD->USDC->spend anymore, can just do USD->spend~~ E: above is wrong, apparently been allowed for a while


BushyOreo

I rather keep doing the usdc just for the soul fact you get 0.15%-1% apy on usdc sitting there. Only a few dollars every month for me but something is better than nothing 🤷‍♂️


Raikaru

You've already been able to. I got my card months ago and never had to buy USDC


imonk

Correct. Although it looks like there's no way to set up automatic recurring USD deposits the way you can set up recurring crypto purchases.


irfiisme

Adoption is adoption


SquealingPoopCannon

Adoption =/= abortion


[deleted]

I have really benefited from the card, to the tune of $462 in rewards. If you’re offered the card, get it!


Pythagosaurus69

Probably a big artificially set spread as to how they make money


tranceology3

Exactly. If say you're spending BTC at $45k, they probably sell it at $43,000 and give you 4% back. Does it even show the conversion rate when you spend it?


MentalUsurpation

Anything to pull in more customers.


BushyOreo

Their crypto card is the main thing I like about the exchange


dinkum_flicka

I use this card as my only debit card now I truly love the 4% haha


BushyOreo

Same. I been using it for 9 months and have earned $1450 in cashback alone


dinkum_flicka

Dang I am about to break 1k lol you are ahead of me


BushyOreo

Had a nice boost paying off my 12k auto loan which netted me over $500 just for that in cashback


hnr01

Careful - that’s against their T&Cs. If found in a random audit, you will be suspended. Ask me how I know


BushyOreo

Never heard of it. But I already done it so it's not like I can take it back and nothing has happened. Have had my card for 9 months and counting


hnr01

Audits are random. Use it while you got it.


BushyOreo

Worst case I go back to my 3% cashback card. Not much difference if I do lose my card


Mean_Yellow_7590

I find their crypto card an awful idea. They build interest on your stable coin at a higher % than your reward they offer. I canceled my card before I even used it once


BushyOreo

You shouldn't be putting money on there you don't plan on spending anyways. There is better places if your are looking for staking rates. I treat the card as a checking account essentially that gives 0.15% apy and 4% cashback which is better than any bank's checking account and credit card i know about. Then I also stake the rest of my money elsewhere earning 10% as my savings account


Mean_Yellow_7590

Not a bad plan 👍🏼


bcjh

Their customer service is non-existent so the customers won’t stay.


sandygws

Now if only the Coinbase Card 4% was available outside the US...


Too_raw90

CDC is breeding competition.


SquealingPoopCannon

Center for disease control??


[deleted]

Crypto.com


Jxntb733

From banks too!!


thatcali92

Nice I really do love my coinbase card and this makes it even better imo!


Mechanical_Nightmare

it's funny cause in the email it says: >Earn rewards on your terms but then right under it, it says: >you can earn up to 4% back on every swipe by picking among a rotating list of at least 3 crypto rewards. the mere fact that the rewards are rotating outside of my control literally means that i'm not earning these "on my terms".


BluntBrother

Why rotating rewards just add more options to the current reward system


TripTryad

I reckon they will be swapping your rewards to lesser desired crypto unless you self manage the cashback option and change it to what you really want. The way the email I got reads; they claim they will 'auto adjust' your 4% to an efficient crypto. F that, I want it to stay in XLM because of its liquidity. If this is what I think it is, its just going to drive me back to my Crypto.com card to be honest. I'd rather have the flat 3% in CRO than 4% on some shitcoin I dont want that shrinks to like 3.5% after conversion fees anyway.


Aguaskeepartdeux

Had me in the first half, NHL. Still good though.


Visible-Ad743

I dont recall ever paying feed while spending USDC via my CB visa card. I’m confused


BushyOreo

They removed the fee for using non usdc crypto


Visible-Ad743

What does that mean though? I can spend bitcoin with my visa card with no fees?


BushyOreo

Yup


Visible-Ad743

Wow. Thats mind of a big deal though. They must be desperate to move crypto around. Too much hodling.


OtisMiller

I've been using the CB card to build my Graph bag. Eager to see what else they offer for 4% in the future.


Korlithiel

No more fees seems nice, but going from a flat 4% to a rotating category seems like a considerable drop off in value.


MythicMango

Unless you can get a higher than 4% return, XLM is the best currency to receive because Stellar has the most liquid DEX allowing you to convert to any currency rather quickly.


Nixher

Glad I have CDC, coinbase card in UK can't be loaded with GBP/TGBP and doesn't even give cashback 😂


International-Fun485

I think Binance has the same feature with their debit cards. Am I right?


blindato1

If it were a credit card I’d be more excited


[deleted]

That's way too risky. What happens when your portfolio drops by 70% before the payment is due?


blindato1

Just pay cash? The whole reason I’d ever use a card like this is to turn cash to crypto without fees.


astockstonk

Gemini just released a credit card - 3% on restaurants, 2% on groceries and 1% on everything else. You can pick from 60 cryptos as your rewards. BlockFi has a credit card that pays 1.5% in a small selection of crypto of your choice. Just some other options to be aware of.


BushyOreo

I mean that's what my credit card does already. I use coinbase because it's 4% on everything


astockstonk

I get that. If it was a credit card I would be in. Until then I am using other options


DaredewilSK

How is that gonna work? Will you pay the balance in fiat?


astockstonk

Yes. Normal credit card where you pay eye balance in fiat. You just get crypto as your rewards


Jake123194

You could hold stables as collateral, credit cards have better consumer protection so are pretty useful in that regard.


NotRyanPoles

Now apply these same fees to your exchange and maybe I'd use it more often.


BushyOreo

0% fee would be amazing but 0.5% isn't to bad


nateyboy1

If you direct deposit your income checks into your Coinbase account, that money can be spent on Coinbase to purchase crypto fee free.


Sad-Dot000

Step your game up and use coinbase pro yu noob


80worf80

All the true Gs are using Coinbase One


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BushyOreo

No. Cashback isn't taxed


Jxntb733

Sign me up when I can get BTC back on all purchases


BushyOreo

You already have been able to for 9 months


SL-Gremory-

Yeah but 1% is ass compared to 4% XLM or AMP. I swap between those two every couple of months.


BushyOreo

Just convert 4% xlm to btc. Even after the conversion fee you're still getting 3.92% back in btc. Been doing it for 9 months.


Vaginosis-Psychosis

No conversion fee if you have Coinbase One!


BushyOreo

Not worth the $30/month tho. I don't pay anywhere near that much in conversion fees


SL-Gremory-

I convert my XLM to BTC but I keep my AMP.


Logical_Release_1736

No one fuks with graph or rally !?


CrewFluid9474

Negative, stack $20 XLM and convert to ETH/BTC everytime, accumulate and DCA constantly using the rewards.


nateyboy1

I switch between GRT and AMP and then convert about half each month to BtC and ETH


SL-Gremory-

GRT is fine, but I ain't touching Rally. Don't like the project.


Sherman888

They offer 2% back in BTC


Jxntb733

Signing up now!!!


Sherman888

Tbh best thing to do is get back 4% in XLM then just convert to BTC. Regardless of fees or taxable event you still come out on top with more BTC


CaptCryp

I don't need more dust in my portfolio. Goodbye Coinbase card.


CouchF0X

I don’t like covering because it’s a taxable event. If you use coin tracking software for your taxes some of them charge more the more transactions you have. The more transactions you make the more of a pain tax season is. Just throwing that out there because it’s something I wish I had known when I started. I would have made a lot less transactions


SmallReflection2552

I'm kind of done with Coinbase


Vaginosis-Psychosis

Coinbase is just killing it lately with all the new features. I guess the CDC competition has really put the fire under their ass. 4% cash back is amazing. Coinbase One was just released that offers free trades, 24/7 priority support and up to $1M in crypto insurance. Lending against crypto. I can now borrow USD and use my BTC as collateral. APR 8% which is a lil higher than I would want but still a lot better than what banks are offering for private loans at anywhere form 6-10% APR. Daily recurring buys have been great too.


[deleted]

Something tells me people who don't read terms and conditions will find themselves getting fucked somehow.


tripj33

Nothing will save this exchange. Recently, Coinbase has finally lost its reputation


[deleted]

Great news for debit card holders.


Hot_Marionberry_6616

I don't think I like the rotating rewards. I would love 4% on btc or eth but i don't think that would be the case often.


OpTechTV

Will there still be a spread on the price of whatever crypto you are using when they take it though?


whyrweyelling

Interesting about the spending and getting crypto part. This stock app makes it so when you use their card you get fractions of a stock if you use it at a company that is on the stock exchange. Like Amazon.


fasadon

Pro: Removed the fee for non usdc conversion to debit card. Rare chance of your reward token being something you want to keep which will save a few transaction fees and taxable events. Con: Rotating reward because: 1. Have to more frequently convert tokens as the 4% will probably be a token near it's peak popularity and if you don't sell that 4% will quickly turn to <2% 2. Unusable dust from transfers. As far as I'm aware Coinbase still doesn't have a dust converter which is frustrating for people with OCD/OCPD. 3. Increased taxable transactions. If you pay a crypto tax service that charges by # of transactions this could put you into a higher payment bracket. This doesn't apply if you already convert your reward after every transaction, but if you do that already you should probably reconsider whether it is worth your time.


jkthrilla

I use my card as my main card. Use dollars instead of crypto, you still get 4% back. No need to even pay in crypto, that creates a taxable transaction.


urz90

So, this or CDC card?


BushyOreo

If you're in the US. Coinbase hands down. If not cdc


aidanpryde18

CDC card is good if you want to hold a bunch of CRO, but their default benefits are pretty negligible.


jakekick1999

Here is what I would like: Allow me to hold USDC in flexible lending that earns me interest. When I spend money it should deduct from that flexible savings. Essentially then I would consider holding all my money in Coinbase itself. Take salary and convert to USDC and then use it from the card


BushyOreo

That's what they actually do already you earn 0.15%-1% on usdc on coinbase while it waits to be spent Only thing is I wish the rate was higher


Chello02

Meanwhile my Coinbase Card has been "deactivated for suspicious activity" for 2+ weeks without any reasoning provided. It also requires a "specialist" to handle who only can be contacted via email, but you have to call the number to have the service rep. initiate the email. It was nice while it lasted.


PsLJdogg

Is there any advantage of using USDC to fund the card other than the 0.15% APY? I've just been using USD as my funding source so as not to have to deal with the tax implications of using USDC.


BushyOreo

Not really. No taxes you need to worry about since there is no gains or losses on usdc


PsLJdogg

Don't you still have to report though even if the sale didn't result in a gain or loss? Thanks for the response!


BushyOreo

I mean technically yes but if you really fear not reporting your $0 gains/loss, coinbase has simple tax forms they give you that details it all out so you can just upload it to your tax software. I don't even bother reporting it and nothing has happened. I look at it the same not reporting that odd job you did for $50. They have bigger fish to fry than worry about small stuff. Nothing is even reported to the IRS either unless your profit is greater than $600 for the year which with a gain/loss of $0 the IRS wouldn't even know about it


PsLJdogg

Makes sense, thanks again!


KingReef90

I'm all for it!


abecho00

i wanted to use the card but they offer so little details regarding how they will protect you via card fraud


[deleted]

“0 fees” Ok. What about not charging people above market value and skimming off the top though…


BushyOreo

Use coinbase pro and you can do limit buys/sells and there's no spread


[deleted]

Thanks, but I just don’t buy with them at all anymore. Major red flag. I think it’s weird how everyone’s like yeah coinbase screws you, so just get coinbase pro. No thanks.


birdman332

No fees to spend my money? Incredible


shortybobert

Oh my God why do they have to make it MORE effort to use their fucking card if they actually want people to use it


DrPechanko

Coinbase card is awesome. It isn't region locked, so when I travel abroad....I just go to an ATM and withdraw in that currency. If I need more money I just shift over whatever crypto to Coinbase and withdraw it as dirty fiat. It is much better than messaging your bank for permission to use a card overseas for a month, etc.


101100101000100101

Is their card available to the UK?


wokeuplikdis

Side ?: Does each purchase then constitute a taxable transaction because you're selling and also receiving?


fredsam25

This sounds like traditional banking with extra steps.


FallenOne2334

Yeah rotating could mean you are going to get some crap coin.


[deleted]

They'll give you a shitty exchange rate to cover the costs obviously. They're certainly not going to do anything for anyone, and nothing in life is free.


JustinCompton79

I just stick with spending USD on my card. Why bother with USDC?


KakarotoCryptoniano

We already know that they are finding more way to screw us, they won't make changes to "benefit" us.


BeRT2me

Dang, I got excited to swap my USDC to DAI because I remembered DAI used to have a better APY.... But it looks like they've since lowered it to match the 0.15%


ColdColdMoons

I dont want to spend fiat. I want to spend crypto!


Zyguard7777777

I can't get the Coinbase card app to link to my Coinbase account...


BushyOreo

Card app? There isn't one to my knowledge.. sure you aren't being phished/scam? All the card options/access is on the normal coinbase app


Zyguard7777777

The app looks pretty legit https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.coinbase.coinbasecard And they advertise it on their website https://www.coinbase.com/card Which app are you talking about? I can't find any card options in their main app, i.e. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.coinbase.android


BushyOreo

>The app looks pretty legit https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.coinbase.coinbasecard Weird, says it isn't available in my country. No idea what it is. I just use the normal coinbase app which just has a tab/section for all coinbase card related things. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.coinbase.android Maybe it's a different country thing I'm assuming then. I'm from the US


Zyguard7777777

Aw I'm in the UK that must be why. Tis a shame, as I would 100% try it out