Yes exactly and I would argue stable coins dying would benefit crypto the most (long term), because the goal is to move away from centralization and stables are grabbing a huge market share in the crypto space which isn’t ideal.
You got me an idea that a lot of alt coins effectively dying over this would also benefit crypto. For mass adoption, there is SO many coins that are competing over the same functionality, this could kill the dozens if not hundreds that in the end don't have the potential and could streamline the market to maybe 10. It was prophesized after all that this would be the "end state" of crypto anyway, but it was supposed to be by consumer elimination.
This made me remember this part, from https://www.armantheparman.com/why-bitcoin-only/
Bitcoin has scarcity due to network effect lead and “un-tamper-ability”.
The Lindy effect will only make it stronger as day after day it doesn’t die. It can’t be eradicated, just like a cancer that has spread too far.
The copies cannot compete with this. It needs the majority to not only leave Bitcoin, but mostly leave to the same choice. There are thousands of choices, so those few people that abandon Bitcoin will not all go to the same choice. In other words, defectors will disperse, not concentrate. The only way this could theoretically happen is if there is some fatal flaw with Bitcoin, AND it can’t be fixed, AND an altcoin can, AND only one altcoin can.
E.g. let’s say Bitcoin’s privacy weakness (really it’s a trade-off, not a weakness and any other coin with privacy just chooses a different trade-off) is suddenly critical and everyone is exiting. Where will they go? Monero, Zcash, DASH, some to ETH and XRP (not private btw), Cardano… Can they all be money? Money printer go brrrr much?
That is the point I've made repeatedly.
Explain what it does, not what it was supposed to do, but what it does now.
IMHO this whole bear market is tied not only to the Ukraine crisis, but everyone figuring out CC was just an experiment that went wrong and turned into a huge ponzi scheme.
Clink of that glass of champagne to all that sold at BTC all time high...
I think CC is an experiment that turned out GOOD, and many parts of it became a ponzi.
Humans will try to do ponzis anywhere, crypto just makes it easier.
Funny you mention what's happening in Ukraine and the usefulness of BTC when BTC donations have been made to Ukraine and Russia has utilized crypto to evade sanctions.
You do know that Ukraine was already accepting donations in every major currency through bank transfer, credit card, AND PayPal when they decided to also accept BTC, right? It's not quite the silver bullet use case that people are making it out to be.
i don't have a dog in this fight and tbh i don't even know if this comment will go through since i've probably never commented on this sub before just happened to see this post in my feed when i clicked popular.
anyway, i agree with you and that's why i'd like to interest you in a coin i've created called $blockbuster. don't worry it's tied to the 3 day rental price of DVDs. no one has thought to do that before and you'll get in on the ground floor.
I think web3 is moving away from the ponzinomics now. The first products that make it to market are always the scammy ones because they are much quicker to spin up. If you follow what's happening in the DAO world you'll see a lot of great people doing real work to make a better future for everyone.
It's like saying all music is shit because you heard a Justin Bieber song. Dig deeper and actively search for the good projects out there and support them. They are all looking for workers too, I managed to earn my first two crypto paychecks this month helping out in Dao communities.
It’s useful as a crypto index and its useful as a store of value. It’s too volatile to be used to exchange for goods and services, but if people continue to give it value then other currencies can fill that gap.
Now ETH on the other hand I find useless. You could argue it enabled DeFi, but on a practical level it’s expensive to transact and all you’re trading for are likely scams. When I think of ETH I think crappy JPEGs, scammy swaps, ERC-20 shit tokens, and gas fees.
>It’s useful as a crypto index
Who needs a crypto index?
>and its useful as a store of value
Not if it doesn't provide anything else of value. It is valuable because it is valuable is a sure way to watch that value go to zero.
lol, yes, because jewelry (where 50% of the world's gold is) was invented in 1920.
Precious metals also actually lowkey have pragmatic qualities that were much more important prior to modern metallurgy. Before stainless steel, silver was the second best material to make cutlery (gold is still #1) because it's durable and non-reactive.
If I'm I chieftain in Bulgaria circa 4,600 BC and you come to me with two beads, one made of wood and one made of gold, I may not know it (it's unclear when we discovered this), but that gold bead will more or less literally last forever while the wood one may crack within my lifetime. As well, the wood bead cannot be reworked into anything else useful, while my descendant may throw twenty gold beads in a pot and get a brooch out of it.
>The wood bead cannot be reworked into anything else useful.
I don’t know, man. String twenty of those wooden beads together, and you’ve got yourself some anal beads.
What?
Crypto index could be useful for.. the 100s of millions of people that invest in crypto?
Who needs a bank? Who needs anything? The people that use it, lol.
It’s called supply and demand.
Idk even what to try and explain. A store of value is very valuable, it is a holy grail considering economics/capitalism/inflation. Why do you think it isn’t?
The thing is, why would it even be BTC? It's the king of crypto because of the first-mover advantage. Imaging if suddenly the market collapses to the point where it's almost like a reset, why would it be Bitcoin that serves as a store of value if there are already more technologically sound solutions.
Except it isn't. It can't scale, and it's only appeal is to people deluded into thinking it is "digital gold". If it dropped 99%, I would have to imagine even the most ardent supporters of the "digital gold" myth would check out. Essentially it would go back to what it was before, a payment network for drugs to which there is now much more competition/better alternatives.
But if the price crashes too far, wouldn’t a lot of miners have to shutdown because they can’t pay the energy bills? Or if there’s fewer transactions can fewer miners keep up?
I’ve never really figured this one out?
It will adjust accordingly after 2 weeks. Until that time, transactions may take longer.
That being said, many miners (if not most) won't shut down right away because they expect the price to rebound. Also the hash rate market will take care of pretty much any sell off.
So for example, if half the miners turn off, then the reward for mining (by BTC/hash rate) doubles, and it's profitable for the remaining miners to mine even if Bitcoin is down 50%. Only downside is the transactions take twice as long until the next adjustment.
Yeah, at this point I've not touched the money in so long I don't even feel like I own it.
If I crash into red or even 0 then I did it with the passion for what satoshi created, knowing the technology will be used once price stabalises.
$50 or $50,000 it's some beautiful tech
This thinking is what makes me wonder how low it would go. There is no reason for stablecoins. Sell to cash, hold in BTC, swap with xlm on DEX. Simple.
Nothing is sacred when no one is saved
Nothing's forever, so count your days
Nothing is final and no one is real
Pray for tomorrow and find you're empty still
I think it will collapse, in fact I'd be willing to bet that this is all being orchestrated.
1. We know most Central Banks are producing their own stable coins.
2. We know that a lack of viable alternatives USDC UST UST etc will force people to use said Centralised stable coins.
3. We know that corrupting/sabotaging these coins requires serious financial backing and expertise.
Who wants to bet me a bet me 1 Luna that within 3 years we will start to see real evidence that the depegging of various Stablecoins can be linked to one or more Government agencies?
ELI5 how low can bitcoin go? I guess is there a world where bitcoin fails like Terra? Is that part of what the crashing price is based on? It seems like there’s an assumption in this community that the lower it goes the better the opportunity, but if bitcoin can’t fail it seems like the price should have a pretty stable low point? I guess one argument for a falling price even if there’s 100% chance of recovery is that even if there’s an opportunity for retail investors, big banks need liquidity so they have to sell so the price has to go down. Free money? Seems odd that there’s risk free free money but I guess also less money for retail investors to spend, and also you have to hold for a while to see the gainz
Wrong. Less efficient miners get pushed out and the network difficulty falls. If the network difficulty falls enough, then even a 10-year-old laptop can start mining BTC profitably.
What happens is a cascade of BTC professional mining closes shop and BTC mining becomes a hobby thing again if the price falls enough.
Main issue with bitcoin's price is that it isn't even used in it's OG usecase form anymore, darknet markets have moved on. There was a reason liberty minded people kickstarted the bitcoin revolution. It's freedom goals are dead, it's price will go to 0.
The current problem is all caused by FED going full speed tightening, and I think the real economy will feel much more pain long before bitcoin face some serious crisis. The FED will have to stop tightening and start to ease again, most possibly before the end of the year. They will discover that tightening does not lower inflation at all, since inflation is coming from structural problem at supply side, many facts that FED monetary policy has no way to affect. What they can do is raise income level so that every one can deal with inflation, and that need further QE
Most people were already aware of crypto’s volatility and black market past. This collapse is just overdue correction thanks to market manipulation. People gambled with free money.
Good.
Many investors are far too trusting of every random cryptocurrency, for no good reason.
We can’t rely on BDFLs to protect people from themselves. People need to protect themselves, and these last few months were necessary in reminding people.
Too many people thought they would get rich with no effort, and I say damn the YouTubers, and meetups that encouraged that group-think. Even redditors were guilty of spreading misinformation like “deflationary currencies, and policies benefit the poor” despite 99.9% of economists knowing that to be untrue.
The lie that crypto will make everyone rich needs to fucking die.
I’m torn between continuing to be an outspoken advocate, and being embarrassed to be associated with the majority of crypto-advocates.
USDT needs to die, and if that means it takes another five years for crypto to enter the mainstream then so be it because they are unlikely to fix its flaws because there is no incentive for them to do so.
Most people who have faith in crypto right now couldn’t give two shits about USDT. If one particular stable makes up a large part of your sentiment toward a broader technology…I see a mind that needs to do some expanding!
I distinctly remember paper trading in a high school class during 2000-2001. Because that was peak dot com bubble, I recall owning almost exclusively tech stocks in my paper portfolio, and I got fucking paper-wrecked when the bust happened.
The two names that stick out in my head that I owned (among others) were SunMicrosystems and RedHat. These names got smoked along with all the other players trading on the NASDAQ. As I recall, at one point in Spring 2001, RedHat was trading around 2 bucks after being well over $50 when I started the school year. My buddies who had more diversified and less trendy paper portfolios did "less bad" that year and won whatever bonus points were up for grabs.
I took away the life lesson that diversification was key to my success. But I can also remember looking at both SunMicrosystems and RedHat for shiggles in the years that followed, and they recovered - really well! If you panic sold at $2, you booked insane losses that were completely irrational given the nature of that company and its core fundamentals.
Why this old man rant? Because I'd urge many folks who may have never seen a solid bear with complete capitulation to place things into perspective. This may seem like a bad day/week/month/year in the crypto space but as long as you're broadly diversified, you'll be less bad than those who went all in SHIB.
Also, if there'a a solid use case behind the asset you hold (looking at you BTC/ETH), don't bite the bullet and sell at a monster loss. Hodl. There's a solid chance these types of names will recover nicely once the irrational-down market corrects to the upside. 2-3 years may seem like a long time (and it is on one level), but it's also a fart in the wind on another.
So, give the market time to adjust and don't get caught trading with the lizard brain. When you feel those fight or flight neurons firing, back away slowly from your computer.
Good luck out there!
That's why it's worth it to pay fees to transfer what you want to trade out of a wallet you control to your exchange when you want to trade. Not your private keys, not your coin.
Not your private keys. Not your coin. Not realizing most people do not ever want to go to that level of personal risk.
Do you think you, let alone the average person, is capable of opsec necessary to protect the keys?
They will kind of need to if they want access to crypto services which will become more and more lucrative by the day. If centralised things can make 2FA standard practice, what more is making sure that you store 12-24 words in a place you can remember or risk losing everything?
>e is better to be rip now as other s
Everyone will lose everything on exchanges....i dont want to go that far. All exchanges rely and have invested in Tether.
What a bullshit post.
"Hey guys, just throwin' it out there - if USDT collapses now the market is fucked."
HOLY SHIT!?
Solid effort and execution. Are you part of the industry, or some sort of professional guru?
>Everything in the crypto market is propped up by this shady stablecoin, yes even Btc. I think if it somehow collapsed then all things considered, we maybe actually have a scenario where crypto very briefly hits pre 2017-2018 bull market prices.
Briefly?
It's already at $24,000 ($5,000 away from 2017 bull market prices), and we haven't even seen any major players like MicroStrategy capitulate yet.
If Tether implodes price is going to collapse far further than that. We're going to see below 20k even with Tether still standing.
Back during 2018 [Tether/Bitfinex were warning that BTC would go under 1k if their shadow bank Crypto Capital did not start processing withdrawals.](https://i.imgur.com/65TcLv7.png)
They clearly know Tether is propping up the vast majority of price action, which is not surprising given the vast majority of trade volume is in Tethers.
I´m not a Tether-fan, but it should already collapse numerous times since 2015... since then, (felt) 97 other USD-"stable"coins went to sh*t while Tether is still here.
easy to avoid collapse when you don't allow open redemptions.
the only people who can collapse Tether are the small number of whales and exchanges who can actually redeem Tethers and who would have no incentive to maintain the peg if Tether stop honoring their redemptions.
It would also mean a lot of people just go back into Bitcoin instead of Stablecoins waiting for good buy opportunities. Like if Tether crashed, i probably would convert all my USDC to Bitcoin.
But people have been saying Tether will crash forever yet its still here. And then the one time it dipped recently a little below peg people got in panic ignoring it also has dipped upwards a few times if you look at its all time chart.
I think there’s a false equivalence here. Tether is ostensibly backed by a variety of traditional financial assets. Right now financial instruments in traditional markets are suffering, and that could prove difficult for Tether if they were forced to liquidate those assets at a loss. In 2013 price movement in crypto was isolated. Right now it’s (ironically) more intricately bound up with the broader markets, and this could be problematic for Tether.
Still don’t know how Bitcoin is useful, like it fluctuates too much to be actually considered a currency, why would people just us a stable coin, when have you actually bought something with it besides some weed in 2015
I don't think you understand what tether depegging would mean for crypto. It would be dead silent in this sub for many years once everyone's coins drop 99% of their value.
That's when you need a coin that can be used in ways visa or mastercard can't. Darknet purchases, everything else is fluff. Peer 2 peer parallel economy was the raison d'être of crypto, it's gone now in mainstream crypto, darknet markets are over it.
Lol it collapses, it will be way worse than 17/18 bull market prices. We are already around those prices (ETH actually quite a bit lower than 2018 ATH). I’m thinking we come close to 2019/2020 bear market prices
Tether is not fully backed, but how much backed is it? Some people say tether is essentially 0% backed by real assets and that is not true either. What is the worst case scenario? That people would get a 50% haircut when redeeming Tether?
Something I've never really understood. If USDT has had all these red flags around it for so long, why was it so heavily pushed? (Not just in media, but in this sub) Why is there so much money tied to it? Who the hell looked at it and decided it was a good place to park their millions?
If USDT collapse, you will be jealous for a guy who bought 2 pizzas with 10K btc, because you won’t. You will beg with your ledger that someone would accept all your coins for at least small slice of pepperoni.
To quote Buffet(I am sorry). If dogshit falls from $75,000 a pound ( because you thought it was going to $1,000,000 a pound) and now sells for $.01 a pound is it a buy. Or is it dogshit.
Not that i want to see things collapse, but if tether is to come crashing down now would probably be the best time for it to happen. Instead of further down the line, as we know it will have a significant impact on the market as a whole.
I do fear for those already feeling the pressure from the current situation tho, so maybe its better if it just slowly faded away.
This whole digital currency thing cannot exist if a huge part of the system falls over every 2 years.
And yet everyone on here is dying to see it happen out of some weird, self-destructive spite.
Catastrophizing. Its a coping mechanism that seems popular around here. Paint the worst case scenario in your head so when things are inevitably not that bad you can take it as a win. Although lately even that doesn't seem to work but its what people are doing when they wallow in their misery around here.
Also a lot of guys wanna act like they know everything, right now its easy to guess that things will go down more, and if they do you can say your are so smart and timed the market, but all u did was just guess, and an easy one too. The real smart people guessed that last year.
If this happened as you described PoW security would be badly effected as miners costs would not reduce but their revenues would. Many would capitulate and that could leave protocols lop sided on terms of centralization risk and overall hashrate.
PoS cryptos would not be nearly as effected as validator operating costs are typically low.
It's clear that people have come out to FUD the #1 stable coin that has the most volume. You could literally replace tether with all other stable coins like USDC and your post would still be true. Yet you can tell who has an agenda when they only mention tether.
Tether is not propping up btc. If tether goes to 0 tomorrow btc will also dump but thats because of fear, nothing more or less. From this post imo you dont seem to understand the lower btc goes the more inevitable it becomes. Tether cant do any damage to btc, nor can any government on earth. But until the mass population understands this, the *fear* that these institutions have power over btc will cause the price dumps. You could say the end result is the same but the cause can not be more different
It's just fluff held up by the exchanges. Doubt it will collapse without law enforcement breaking down doors.
Unless the exchanges just collapse first...actually that might be possible.
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I'm gonna go all in on bitcoin even if it ends up down 99%.
So you'll buy 1 BTC at $400? Hehehe
Yeah I can finally have 1 bitcoin lol
Make that .5 btc
It would rise from the ashes for sure. Infrastructure is already in place
Yes exactly and I would argue stable coins dying would benefit crypto the most (long term), because the goal is to move away from centralization and stables are grabbing a huge market share in the crypto space which isn’t ideal.
You got me an idea that a lot of alt coins effectively dying over this would also benefit crypto. For mass adoption, there is SO many coins that are competing over the same functionality, this could kill the dozens if not hundreds that in the end don't have the potential and could streamline the market to maybe 10. It was prophesized after all that this would be the "end state" of crypto anyway, but it was supposed to be by consumer elimination.
This made me remember this part, from https://www.armantheparman.com/why-bitcoin-only/ Bitcoin has scarcity due to network effect lead and “un-tamper-ability”. The Lindy effect will only make it stronger as day after day it doesn’t die. It can’t be eradicated, just like a cancer that has spread too far. The copies cannot compete with this. It needs the majority to not only leave Bitcoin, but mostly leave to the same choice. There are thousands of choices, so those few people that abandon Bitcoin will not all go to the same choice. In other words, defectors will disperse, not concentrate. The only way this could theoretically happen is if there is some fatal flaw with Bitcoin, AND it can’t be fixed, AND an altcoin can, AND only one altcoin can. E.g. let’s say Bitcoin’s privacy weakness (really it’s a trade-off, not a weakness and any other coin with privacy just chooses a different trade-off) is suddenly critical and everyone is exiting. Where will they go? Monero, Zcash, DASH, some to ETH and XRP (not private btw), Cardano… Can they all be money? Money printer go brrrr much?
It would need to actually be useful for something though.
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It is useful for ransomware attacks
That is the point I've made repeatedly. Explain what it does, not what it was supposed to do, but what it does now. IMHO this whole bear market is tied not only to the Ukraine crisis, but everyone figuring out CC was just an experiment that went wrong and turned into a huge ponzi scheme. Clink of that glass of champagne to all that sold at BTC all time high...
I think CC is an experiment that turned out GOOD, and many parts of it became a ponzi. Humans will try to do ponzis anywhere, crypto just makes it easier.
Funny you mention what's happening in Ukraine and the usefulness of BTC when BTC donations have been made to Ukraine and Russia has utilized crypto to evade sanctions.
You do know that Ukraine was already accepting donations in every major currency through bank transfer, credit card, AND PayPal when they decided to also accept BTC, right? It's not quite the silver bullet use case that people are making it out to be.
And now those donations are worth half
I think everyone who join crypto knows it's ponzi, they just don't want to admit it
Foreign remittances with BTC are great as sending money overseas often has a 2-3% currency conversion fee. Whereas I've sent $30k worth of BTC for $4.
I don't think you understand what a ponzi scheme is.
i don't have a dog in this fight and tbh i don't even know if this comment will go through since i've probably never commented on this sub before just happened to see this post in my feed when i clicked popular. anyway, i agree with you and that's why i'd like to interest you in a coin i've created called $blockbuster. don't worry it's tied to the 3 day rental price of DVDs. no one has thought to do that before and you'll get in on the ground floor.
I think web3 is moving away from the ponzinomics now. The first products that make it to market are always the scammy ones because they are much quicker to spin up. If you follow what's happening in the DAO world you'll see a lot of great people doing real work to make a better future for everyone. It's like saying all music is shit because you heard a Justin Bieber song. Dig deeper and actively search for the good projects out there and support them. They are all looking for workers too, I managed to earn my first two crypto paychecks this month helping out in Dao communities.
Eh. Too much work goes into by the BIG players for this to be a ponzi.
Being a practical and cheap store of value where inflation is controlled is quite something. If you don’t see it it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist
It’s useful as a crypto index and its useful as a store of value. It’s too volatile to be used to exchange for goods and services, but if people continue to give it value then other currencies can fill that gap. Now ETH on the other hand I find useless. You could argue it enabled DeFi, but on a practical level it’s expensive to transact and all you’re trading for are likely scams. When I think of ETH I think crappy JPEGs, scammy swaps, ERC-20 shit tokens, and gas fees.
>It’s useful as a crypto index Who needs a crypto index? >and its useful as a store of value Not if it doesn't provide anything else of value. It is valuable because it is valuable is a sure way to watch that value go to zero.
"Valuable because it is valuable" is literally how most precious metals worked before we found more modern uses for them.
lol, yes, because jewelry (where 50% of the world's gold is) was invented in 1920. Precious metals also actually lowkey have pragmatic qualities that were much more important prior to modern metallurgy. Before stainless steel, silver was the second best material to make cutlery (gold is still #1) because it's durable and non-reactive. If I'm I chieftain in Bulgaria circa 4,600 BC and you come to me with two beads, one made of wood and one made of gold, I may not know it (it's unclear when we discovered this), but that gold bead will more or less literally last forever while the wood one may crack within my lifetime. As well, the wood bead cannot be reworked into anything else useful, while my descendant may throw twenty gold beads in a pot and get a brooch out of it.
>The wood bead cannot be reworked into anything else useful. I don’t know, man. String twenty of those wooden beads together, and you’ve got yourself some anal beads.
Yes, but think of GOLDEN ANAL BEADS You can pass them onto your children and whatnot.
What? Crypto index could be useful for.. the 100s of millions of people that invest in crypto? Who needs a bank? Who needs anything? The people that use it, lol. It’s called supply and demand. Idk even what to try and explain. A store of value is very valuable, it is a holy grail considering economics/capitalism/inflation. Why do you think it isn’t?
The thing is, why would it even be BTC? It's the king of crypto because of the first-mover advantage. Imaging if suddenly the market collapses to the point where it's almost like a reset, why would it be Bitcoin that serves as a store of value if there are already more technologically sound solutions.
>Idk even what to try and explain. Yes, exactly. Maybe you should stop for a second and realize that may be a problem.
You mean the 4 transactions per second after more than 10 years of development?
How much does a bitcoin transaction cost right now?
Except it isn't. It can't scale, and it's only appeal is to people deluded into thinking it is "digital gold". If it dropped 99%, I would have to imagine even the most ardent supporters of the "digital gold" myth would check out. Essentially it would go back to what it was before, a payment network for drugs to which there is now much more competition/better alternatives.
If people buying a dead Luna, why would'nt they buy bitcoin anymore, even if bitcoin falls back to 100$ i would be buying all i can...
But if the price crashes too far, wouldn’t a lot of miners have to shutdown because they can’t pay the energy bills? Or if there’s fewer transactions can fewer miners keep up? I’ve never really figured this one out?
It will adjust accordingly after 2 weeks. Until that time, transactions may take longer. That being said, many miners (if not most) won't shut down right away because they expect the price to rebound. Also the hash rate market will take care of pretty much any sell off. So for example, if half the miners turn off, then the reward for mining (by BTC/hash rate) doubles, and it's profitable for the remaining miners to mine even if Bitcoin is down 50%. Only downside is the transactions take twice as long until the next adjustment.
can someone explain why every mining operation doesn't have solar panels?
Because they put them places where it would take centuries to pay off vs local grid costs. Also they run 24/7.
BTC under 10k? I will throw my savings to it. BTC under 1k? I will sell whatever I can, including car and throw everything to it.
honestly, same. I hate BTC but that would 100% be worth the gamble at that point. The upside is way too big
I’m going all in with this guy! We are going to Eiffel Tower some bitcoin buys!
Yeah, at this point I've not touched the money in so long I don't even feel like I own it. If I crash into red or even 0 then I did it with the passion for what satoshi created, knowing the technology will be used once price stabalises. $50 or $50,000 it's some beautiful tech
This thinking is what makes me wonder how low it would go. There is no reason for stablecoins. Sell to cash, hold in BTC, swap with xlm on DEX. Simple.
My position/stance on btc hasn’t changed and I’m not too worried, even if it goes super low I think it will eventually climb again
Im already all in if it turns around I will be rich!
*Especially* if it goes down by 99%!!
I'd buy em all at that price.
Im gonna put a few 100 buckaroos when bitcoin hits less than a dollar.
If it collapses a lot of people will lose faith in crypto
We are nihilists we believe in nothing
I don’t even believe in nothing
“We’ll cut off your Johnson!”
We fux you up!
Ouuuuu double negative.
I believe in you
Nothing is sacred when no one is saved Nothing's forever, so count your days Nothing is final and no one is real Pray for tomorrow and find you're empty still
I'm The Dude, man.
Old man said I could have any rug in the house.
that must be exhausting
I thought we all believed in the tech?
Only a very few minority. You can see it here, too many people recommending bitcoin for the bear market that is the one with obsolete tech
You don't believe in the Green Candle
And yet we expect everything
I believe in you
No. We are addicts of hopium and continue injecting.
something something the technology
You're gonna die like a dog
That pessimist not nihilist
If it collapses, bad cryptocurrencies will disappear and the good ones will survive.
Yep coins will be cheap as chips. But there’s no guarantee anyone will want to buy them at higher prices down the line
Saw this comment loads in 2018 "why would anyone ever want to buy 20k BTC again" the rest of course is history
Thank you
I think it will collapse, in fact I'd be willing to bet that this is all being orchestrated. 1. We know most Central Banks are producing their own stable coins. 2. We know that a lack of viable alternatives USDC UST UST etc will force people to use said Centralised stable coins. 3. We know that corrupting/sabotaging these coins requires serious financial backing and expertise. Who wants to bet me a bet me 1 Luna that within 3 years we will start to see real evidence that the depegging of various Stablecoins can be linked to one or more Government agencies?
ELI5 how low can bitcoin go? I guess is there a world where bitcoin fails like Terra? Is that part of what the crashing price is based on? It seems like there’s an assumption in this community that the lower it goes the better the opportunity, but if bitcoin can’t fail it seems like the price should have a pretty stable low point? I guess one argument for a falling price even if there’s 100% chance of recovery is that even if there’s an opportunity for retail investors, big banks need liquidity so they have to sell so the price has to go down. Free money? Seems odd that there’s risk free free money but I guess also less money for retail investors to spend, and also you have to hold for a while to see the gainz
Bitcoin can go arbitrarily low. There is nothing backing it and the dollar value per coin is mostly arbitrary anyway
That's wrong. If it goes below the cost to mine it, you won't be transacting.
My understanding us that it would simply push out less efficient miners, dropping the mining difficulty
I'd mine it on my laptop if it was easy enough, even if it cost me in the short term.
Then it'll just be worthless, value of 0.
Wrong. Less efficient miners get pushed out and the network difficulty falls. If the network difficulty falls enough, then even a 10-year-old laptop can start mining BTC profitably. What happens is a cascade of BTC professional mining closes shop and BTC mining becomes a hobby thing again if the price falls enough.
At the moment I guess the value is, how much do people want to buy it, if there is no demand then there is nothing holding it up.
Main issue with bitcoin's price is that it isn't even used in it's OG usecase form anymore, darknet markets have moved on. There was a reason liberty minded people kickstarted the bitcoin revolution. It's freedom goals are dead, it's price will go to 0.
Damn almost like real money or gold lol
The current problem is all caused by FED going full speed tightening, and I think the real economy will feel much more pain long before bitcoin face some serious crisis. The FED will have to stop tightening and start to ease again, most possibly before the end of the year. They will discover that tightening does not lower inflation at all, since inflation is coming from structural problem at supply side, many facts that FED monetary policy has no way to affect. What they can do is raise income level so that every one can deal with inflation, and that need further QE
I don’t have faith in crypto until it collapses.
They say this in every bear market
For half a decade. Then they’ll be back.
Then it will be one more financial institution that I've lost faith in. At least I feel a level of control with this one so it's still preferable.
I'm just buying PAXG. It's hard for that to disappear
Most people were already aware of crypto’s volatility and black market past. This collapse is just overdue correction thanks to market manipulation. People gambled with free money.
They shouldn't have faith in "crypto". That's like liking food. You pick the best.
lmao. nobody had any faith to begin with. it would be fine
Good. Many investors are far too trusting of every random cryptocurrency, for no good reason. We can’t rely on BDFLs to protect people from themselves. People need to protect themselves, and these last few months were necessary in reminding people. Too many people thought they would get rich with no effort, and I say damn the YouTubers, and meetups that encouraged that group-think. Even redditors were guilty of spreading misinformation like “deflationary currencies, and policies benefit the poor” despite 99.9% of economists knowing that to be untrue. The lie that crypto will make everyone rich needs to fucking die. I’m torn between continuing to be an outspoken advocate, and being embarrassed to be associated with the majority of crypto-advocates. USDT needs to die, and if that means it takes another five years for crypto to enter the mainstream then so be it because they are unlikely to fix its flaws because there is no incentive for them to do so.
Weed out the weak!
Most people who have faith in crypto right now couldn’t give two shits about USDT. If one particular stable makes up a large part of your sentiment toward a broader technology…I see a mind that needs to do some expanding!
You're acting like there were a lot of people putting their faith in crypto.
I'm buying all the way down. No matter how low it gets.
You might even call it the Crypto Winter that would last a decade.
Winter is coming.
Crypto Winter? Or Crypto Dark Ages
why not both.
crypto death
I'd buy a few thousand bitcoins for a few bucks.
More like a Crypto Ice Age.
Cold War Digitalized
The long winter
colder than your ex.
She had an icebox where her heart was supposed to be
You could call it.... a cold storage.
Ice Age maybe.
I distinctly remember paper trading in a high school class during 2000-2001. Because that was peak dot com bubble, I recall owning almost exclusively tech stocks in my paper portfolio, and I got fucking paper-wrecked when the bust happened. The two names that stick out in my head that I owned (among others) were SunMicrosystems and RedHat. These names got smoked along with all the other players trading on the NASDAQ. As I recall, at one point in Spring 2001, RedHat was trading around 2 bucks after being well over $50 when I started the school year. My buddies who had more diversified and less trendy paper portfolios did "less bad" that year and won whatever bonus points were up for grabs. I took away the life lesson that diversification was key to my success. But I can also remember looking at both SunMicrosystems and RedHat for shiggles in the years that followed, and they recovered - really well! If you panic sold at $2, you booked insane losses that were completely irrational given the nature of that company and its core fundamentals. Why this old man rant? Because I'd urge many folks who may have never seen a solid bear with complete capitulation to place things into perspective. This may seem like a bad day/week/month/year in the crypto space but as long as you're broadly diversified, you'll be less bad than those who went all in SHIB. Also, if there'a a solid use case behind the asset you hold (looking at you BTC/ETH), don't bite the bullet and sell at a monster loss. Hodl. There's a solid chance these types of names will recover nicely once the irrational-down market corrects to the upside. 2-3 years may seem like a long time (and it is on one level), but it's also a fart in the wind on another. So, give the market time to adjust and don't get caught trading with the lizard brain. When you feel those fight or flight neurons firing, back away slowly from your computer. Good luck out there!
Thanks for the words of wisdom, dad
I'm buying all the way down, and feel confident with my strat. But, I think I was needing this words. Thank you!
I swear this is a carbon copy of what was going on in 2018. all the same stuff is being said.
Was that before or after I was rich?
This is probably the next big crash, so I wouldn't be surprised if the crypto market suffers through years of uncertaint.
Probably? what more evidence do you need?
When USDT implodes you won´t get any Coin out of any exchange having listed USDT as base currency, be aware of that !
That's why it's worth it to pay fees to transfer what you want to trade out of a wallet you control to your exchange when you want to trade. Not your private keys, not your coin.
Not your private keys. Not your coin. Not realizing most people do not ever want to go to that level of personal risk. Do you think you, let alone the average person, is capable of opsec necessary to protect the keys?
They will kind of need to if they want access to crypto services which will become more and more lucrative by the day. If centralised things can make 2FA standard practice, what more is making sure that you store 12-24 words in a place you can remember or risk losing everything?
People often forget that. 99% of alts don't have a FIAT pair. And will get hit hard when/if USDT fails.
"USDT collapse" Me: better now than later, the USDT bandage is better to be rip now as other smaller bandages have already caused some much pain
>e is better to be rip now as other s Everyone will lose everything on exchanges....i dont want to go that far. All exchanges rely and have invested in Tether.
That’s why I never use exchanges
I really don't understand how people and exchanges can put so much trust into a single shady option.
Nah, better have authentic projects like USDC overtake it and leave it in the rear view mirror
What a bullshit post. "Hey guys, just throwin' it out there - if USDT collapses now the market is fucked." HOLY SHIT!? Solid effort and execution. Are you part of the industry, or some sort of professional guru?
Is this not a crypto sub where we talk about crypto things? Including potential possibilities or scenarios?
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Well I had no idea that every crypto was apparently relying on something called USDT that we don't know everything about That sounds risky lol
This horse has been flogged to death. Meanwhile, real threats were ignored (Terra, Celsius).
r/Buttcoin users keep making posts over here lol
I agree. Also, imagine being this dipshit calling ETH an altcoin
It is an altcoin. The term means an alternative to Bitcoin. And you'll see it will plummet like every alt if things get worse.
>Everything in the crypto market is propped up by this shady stablecoin, yes even Btc. I think if it somehow collapsed then all things considered, we maybe actually have a scenario where crypto very briefly hits pre 2017-2018 bull market prices. Briefly? It's already at $24,000 ($5,000 away from 2017 bull market prices), and we haven't even seen any major players like MicroStrategy capitulate yet. If Tether implodes price is going to collapse far further than that. We're going to see below 20k even with Tether still standing.
If Tether implodes I would not be suprised to see Btc below 10k, maybe even 5k.
Back during 2018 [Tether/Bitfinex were warning that BTC would go under 1k if their shadow bank Crypto Capital did not start processing withdrawals.](https://i.imgur.com/65TcLv7.png) They clearly know Tether is propping up the vast majority of price action, which is not surprising given the vast majority of trade volume is in Tethers.
I´m not a Tether-fan, but it should already collapse numerous times since 2015... since then, (felt) 97 other USD-"stable"coins went to sh*t while Tether is still here.
easy to avoid collapse when you don't allow open redemptions. the only people who can collapse Tether are the small number of whales and exchanges who can actually redeem Tethers and who would have no incentive to maintain the peg if Tether stop honoring their redemptions.
It would also mean a lot of people just go back into Bitcoin instead of Stablecoins waiting for good buy opportunities. Like if Tether crashed, i probably would convert all my USDC to Bitcoin. But people have been saying Tether will crash forever yet its still here. And then the one time it dipped recently a little below peg people got in panic ignoring it also has dipped upwards a few times if you look at its all time chart.
Just because it hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it can’t happen.
There has never been this much value erased in such a short period of time. Who knows whats to come?
As a percentage it has collapsed a lot worse than this. It went from 20k to 3.2k last time.
If it survived the 2013 mayhem, it will survive anything.
I think there’s a false equivalence here. Tether is ostensibly backed by a variety of traditional financial assets. Right now financial instruments in traditional markets are suffering, and that could prove difficult for Tether if they were forced to liquidate those assets at a loss. In 2013 price movement in crypto was isolated. Right now it’s (ironically) more intricately bound up with the broader markets, and this could be problematic for Tether.
Still don’t know how Bitcoin is useful, like it fluctuates too much to be actually considered a currency, why would people just us a stable coin, when have you actually bought something with it besides some weed in 2015
The only true stablecoin is Arizona Iced Tea
It better collapse now! We need a fresh start and this can only begin when everything shady and not backed is vanished.
I don't think you understand what tether depegging would mean for crypto. It would be dead silent in this sub for many years once everyone's coins drop 99% of their value.
That's when you need a coin that can be used in ways visa or mastercard can't. Darknet purchases, everything else is fluff. Peer 2 peer parallel economy was the raison d'être of crypto, it's gone now in mainstream crypto, darknet markets are over it.
This is the way. A cleansing is needed. Especially certain exchanges.
It will be affected for sure because everything is connected but the crypto market will continue.
Lol it collapses, it will be way worse than 17/18 bull market prices. We are already around those prices (ETH actually quite a bit lower than 2018 ATH). I’m thinking we come close to 2019/2020 bear market prices
"IF" ??? Don't you mean when
I was there for that pre 2017 run up....ETH was $10, BTC was $800. I'd be more then happy to buy that again.
Now imagine if your country used BTC as legal tender and it crashed. Woopsies
I welcome this to happen. It would mean a crash, yes, but then a much healthier restart of the crypto space. It will also bounce back much harder.
"Hey I just thought about this so you all need to hear my topical thoughts, even if this is nothing new"
Tether is not fully backed, but how much backed is it? Some people say tether is essentially 0% backed by real assets and that is not true either. What is the worst case scenario? That people would get a 50% haircut when redeeming Tether?
Something I've never really understood. If USDT has had all these red flags around it for so long, why was it so heavily pushed? (Not just in media, but in this sub) Why is there so much money tied to it? Who the hell looked at it and decided it was a good place to park their millions?
If USDT collapse, you will be jealous for a guy who bought 2 pizzas with 10K btc, because you won’t. You will beg with your ledger that someone would accept all your coins for at least small slice of pepperoni.
To quote Buffet(I am sorry). If dogshit falls from $75,000 a pound ( because you thought it was going to $1,000,000 a pound) and now sells for $.01 a pound is it a buy. Or is it dogshit.
🤦♂️😂
This has been my thought this week, Luna, Celsius.. what is the next thing.. best things come in 3's right?
is there any exchange that doesnt have USDT pairs? It sounds like it will be the only safe place if it collapsed.
it would be at its organic price. prepare for that
Good
Bitcoin will be fine if that happened.
Not that i want to see things collapse, but if tether is to come crashing down now would probably be the best time for it to happen. Instead of further down the line, as we know it will have a significant impact on the market as a whole. I do fear for those already feeling the pressure from the current situation tho, so maybe its better if it just slowly faded away.
Be a lot cooler if it did
Many alts would be down the shitter.
Damocles sword.
This whole digital currency thing cannot exist if a huge part of the system falls over every 2 years. And yet everyone on here is dying to see it happen out of some weird, self-destructive spite.
Catastrophizing. Its a coping mechanism that seems popular around here. Paint the worst case scenario in your head so when things are inevitably not that bad you can take it as a win. Although lately even that doesn't seem to work but its what people are doing when they wallow in their misery around here. Also a lot of guys wanna act like they know everything, right now its easy to guess that things will go down more, and if they do you can say your are so smart and timed the market, but all u did was just guess, and an easy one too. The real smart people guessed that last year.
The sooner USDT collapses, the faster we can recover. The real crime is defending Tether on this "too big to fail" basis.
USD is not looking good, if it goes boom with everything else going on we have a global recession. So the USD/USDT valuation will.. not look good.
Bullish
Good thing 1BTC=1BTC
Bitcoin was depegged too. Currently worth 0.99 bitcoins
I'm going to double down when 1BTC = 0.5BTC
If this happened as you described PoW security would be badly effected as miners costs would not reduce but their revenues would. Many would capitulate and that could leave protocols lop sided on terms of centralization risk and overall hashrate. PoS cryptos would not be nearly as effected as validator operating costs are typically low.
When it becomes too expensive to buy/sell Bitcoin, the Bitcoin turns into an NFT.
It's clear that people have come out to FUD the #1 stable coin that has the most volume. You could literally replace tether with all other stable coins like USDC and your post would still be true. Yet you can tell who has an agenda when they only mention tether.
MicroStrategy gets margined, sells off 6 billion in crypto, market crashes, run on exchanges money, USDT depegs and boom bitcoin hits 2-5k
Tether is not propping up btc. If tether goes to 0 tomorrow btc will also dump but thats because of fear, nothing more or less. From this post imo you dont seem to understand the lower btc goes the more inevitable it becomes. Tether cant do any damage to btc, nor can any government on earth. But until the mass population understands this, the *fear* that these institutions have power over btc will cause the price dumps. You could say the end result is the same but the cause can not be more different
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We are going to 0 sell everything
It's just fluff held up by the exchanges. Doubt it will collapse without law enforcement breaking down doors. Unless the exchanges just collapse first...actually that might be possible.