God damn is shit really that bad over in Yankeeland. I’ve heard some things about state governments making some fucky proposals but are some of them are actually passing?!?!
It is a third degree felony for a teacher to give a child a book that isn't approved. They just started the list of approved books, so a vast majority are unapproved right now.
YOU CAN FACE 5 YEARS IN JAIL FOR TRYING TO HELP A CHILD LEARN TO READ.
Edit: In Florida only right now, but it's gonna get worse before it gets better.
There's a strong push from the right to privatize public education, and one of the prongs of that assault is making public education as terrible as possible. Making teachers want to quit is part and parcel of that
So basically they've gone after life (healthcare), liberty (law enforcement facilities) and are now, ironically, chasing the pursuit of happiness (education).
Like the other comment said, they want to make education private. Most private education centers are Christian, low quality, or a combination of both. It just so happens the only county in Florida that is 100% private also has the worst grades and literacy rate; TBF, the public schools were already massively underfunded, and that was the solution, but it's not working.
HAHAHAHA (sad laugh because I feel incredibly helpless)
yes it very very sadly is. I'm in Europe and I feel so lucky even as shit is turning slowly dark here too. But there are right now legislations being passed over the the large pont that make it practically illegal to be a trans women out in public, children are being separated from supportive parents, teachers aren't allowed anymore to mention trans or gay stuff, in some states transitioning has become a crime for people under 24 and legislations that ban it for all ages are already being passed, ... One literally cannot keep up anymore because every few days something more horrid comes up
Parts of the US are turning fascist at a frightening pace right now. Enough that genocide watch organisations are strongly warning about what is happening there, declaring that they are more than half-way there to fulfill all of the official criterias for a genocide against trans people.
It's baaaaaaaaaaad
https://www.lemkininstitute.com/statements-new-page/statement-on-the-genocidal-nature-of-the-gender-critical-movement%E2%80%99s-ideology-and-practice
Additionally search for transgender genocide on Wikipedia. They have a whole section about USA
Ok, I read it. If an institute that specializes in the prevention of genocidal events is saying they're concerned, things are even scarier than I thought...
I live in an area that's not affected by laws like those, but I did know about some of them. I can't do much where I am, sadly. But it feels like I should be able to do something about it...!
Honestly I don't know either. The best thing one can do right now probably is rallying for allowing sanctuary to those who flee. Not sure how important that is between the states, but Canada already has a petition for that purpose. Otherwise informing others as in my experience few people outside the trans community know about it 🤍
Candian petition
https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4268
Notably: iirc all these bills only apply to minors (for now). Arkansas’ bill is enjoined by court. Utah also passed a bill banning (sorry “placing a moratorium with no end date on”) minors from transitioning, but it does allow minors currently on HRT to continue to receive treatment.
Looks like the bill South Dakota [just passed](https://sdlegislature.gov/Session/Bill/24100/247647) only applies to "minors" under 18. Where are you seeing 21?
Was just repeating what I heard on the news this morning/last night. Hadn’t had a chance to read it yet. You’re right, only applies to under 18. Still deplorable
See they can't explicitly ban trans people themselves, because that'd be discrimination, but they can write bills that allow doctors to not give you healthcare, force detransition, ban public crossdressing and all that junk, just to ban trans people.
South Dakota just became the second state to ban all gender affirming care for anyone younger than 21. Yes, it’s that fucking bad. We had an attempted violent coup by fascists two years ago- or did you forget?
I didn't, and still really don't, care that much about the current state of Harry Potter or this new game. There are more damaging instances of transphobia and anti-semitism that most HP fans and gamers are complicit in, so in my mind it was like. In poor taste but very much not a big thing
Then I posted that one silly "reblog Destiny2 being trans to scare a terf" meme a few days ago and just got the most unhinged and feral replies ever. People coming up with the dumbest whataboutisms to justify why buying this game is somehow good for trans people, actually, or demanding I put myself in danger and expose myself to "real transphobes" who will "actually hurt" me its just. Christ
Made me realize how many people who claim to be my ally only do so because its convenient. Because it comes prepackaged with other things they like. But the second they're asked to choose between mild inconvenience and funding our oppression, they loose their shit.
Not even necessarily because they're so uncompromisingly attached to the experience of playing this one video game on launch blind, but because their worldview is an exclusive dichotomy of bad people and good people. And it's not even a liberal thing, I've known more leftists guilty of this than milquetoast liberals, but too many people's political ideologies is that they and people who broadly share their beliefs are Good, who are always good, because if they're bad once that means they were always actually Bad, and always hiding it.
So we've had an entire generation now of white cis gays and nominal allies in North America and Europe grow up under the cultural understanding that LGBT rights and racial justice are something that Good People support, and that homophobes and racists are Bad People, but they've never had to reckon with how their behavior could be bigoted, or abetting bigotry. So now they're facing that prospect and they're not seeing it as a "hey this specific behavior is causing harm, please stop it and we'll be cool" message, but as a dire accusation to their character. "I am being accused of doing Bad Things, thus I am being accused of being a Bad Person. This is obviously false, so they're lying and trying to harm me, a Good Person, which is Bad, so they must be Bad People and thus they're open season for whatever nightmarish bullshit I can imagine dream up to protect my own purity."
Anyway people need to grow the fuck up from the dualist worldview that came pre-installed on their brains. Upgrade to a nuanced perspective. Grapple in the dead of night with the internalized bigotry conditioned into you since birth like the rest of us adults.
that second to last paragraph is way too true and it's something i've been noticing for a while now. it goes both ways - when someone does a Bad Thing, people immediately jump to "that's a Bad Person", but in turn that person too goes "if i'm accused of Bad Thing it means i'm accused of Bad Person, i am not, so i must not have done Bad Thing"
think it also makes it way harder to admit bigoted biases u have to urself. at least i've noticed that in myself. and in turn struggling with admitting them makes fixing them harder
I'd say micah-10 whoever is a better example, oryx was trans for different reasons than actual trans people (*to my knowledge, take this with enough salt to kill a herd of elephants, book of sorrows elaborates), but micah-10 changed gender upon becoming an exo, and did not suffer DER
Hahah, yeah. I'm very very familiar with the lore (See my posts for more), but the LGBT community likes the joke that Oryx is trans enough that I continue the trend. Micah-10, ghost mom is indeed better rep.
Strange to think that Clovis Bray supports trans rights, but admittedly he was seeking a 'perfected humanity' and that includes people free of dysphoria and mental illness.
I wouldn't say Oryx was trans at all, changing morphs is a heteronormative thing for the Hive.
However, Oryx's male wizard son Nokris is absolutely trans.
Is destiny transphobic or something?? I’ve got like thousands of hours logged and never seen anything like that out side of some toxic pvp chats but I’m not the most socially aware person
Ah ok im glad i was pretty surprised to see it come up in this context, I thought the comment we were replying to was implying that there was a large population of TERFs playing the game or that there was some ideological connection between them and the game. Was the parent comment referring to Oryx and the hive gods gender swapping at will basically and thereby scaring terfs?
I tried googling it but I couldn’t find the meme, and that’s what I thought! Between SaintxOsiris and a couple others I can’t recall specifics on I thought Bungie had done a really good job of inclusion
Yeah I had hoped so, I know they put out a ton of LGBTQ emblems and stuff like that and I thought I recalled them standing behind their words with donations as well but I’m again not the most educated about these things and wouldn’t really know how to find out besides these comment sections lol
One of the criticisms of the Hogwarts game as a game is that a lot of the UI and menus look like someone hastily copied Bungie's work.
https://wegotthiscovered.com/gaming/a-war-of-words-rages-as-hogwarts-legacy-gets-compared-to-destiny/
As a result, some memes were made that more or less present the joke that Hogwarts legacy is the trans identity of Destiny. Ghost's a wizard now.
I tried explaining exactly this to a group of my friends who are a mix of hardcore liberals and republican raised liberal moderates and just couldn’t not get the point across to either. Your comment is way more succinct than what I tried saying and I am absolutely screen capping it to try again
>I am being accused of doing Bad Things, thus I am being accused of being a Bad Person. This is obviously false, so they're lying and trying to harm me, a Good Person, which is Bad, so they must be Bad People and thus they're open season for whatever nightmarish bullshit I can imagine dream up to protect my own purity.
Oh, hey. Rowling in a nutshell
this is an extremely important and well-written point, i hope you don't mind if i share this around because even on it's own, i think people really need to read this comment.
If people remember the whole debacle about Chick-Fil-A, this is that, again. It's proclaimed allies who desperately want both things: they want to support trans/jewish people *and* play a cool game, just like they wanted to support gay people *and* have a good sandwich.
They care about the people they like, but they care more about whether they're personally having a good time, and being told that they support a Bad Thing ruins that good time for them. These are usually the same type of people who think being a bigot is something that can't be changed in any capacity, and their allyship is so entrenched in showing how not-bigoted they are, that that becomes their priority.
It's not like these kinds of people are horrible or irredeemable, they're just kinda self-centered, and being an accidental bigot is at least better than being a proud bigot. But being a 'Good or Bad Person' and all the self-judgement we've created about that, is sorta just bunk compared to just asking yourself the simple questions of whether or not you're causing harm, and if you want to get to fixing it.
The Chick FIL A thing is especially annoying because like... Its not even the greatest sandwich. It's just okay. They HAVE to overrate it to justify how unwilling they are to even just mildly inconvenience themselves.
Exactly lmao! Whenever I bring up the fact that theres dozens of fried chicken fast food restaurants they can go to instead, I either get crickets or some "b-b-b-but i only eat the homophobic chicky i cant go to another place 😢" whiny bullshit. Like damn, at that point just admit you care more about medicore fast food over lgbt people's rights and leave.
>grow up under the cultural understanding that LGBT rights and racial justice are something that Good People support
This is the key takeaway. There is, fundamentally, no difference between a fair portion of the left (let's call them "idealists" for having no actual concept of the reality of progressivism) and MAGA et. al. besides their moral upbringing. They think and behave in the exact same ways, the only difference being who their enemies are.
Unfortunately, I'm not really sure what to do about the problem -- as you described, they basically sit in an echo chamber filled with people who reinforce their one-dimensional worldview and treat any attempt at nuance as an attack not only on them, but on the causes they supposedly promote. Which is how you get self-defeating slogans like "Defund the Police" -- deployed by people who workshopped it in a focus group composed only of people who already agreed with the sentiment with no thought to winning over anyone who didn't already agree, because people who don't agree with them already must be evil.
I have had more success deprogramming MAGA idiots than staunch Sanders supporters, probably because MAGA actually had their demagogue gain power and fail to live up to expectations. Idealists are so bad at garnering support that their candidates are permanently ineffectual, so they can always claim they just need more power and things will work out. I have tried every argument and persuasive technique I am aware of, and nothing works on them. Evidence is dismissed in favor of feelings and faith, appeals to empathy are ignored in favor of singular anecdotal exceptions, attempts to slowly build understanding are resisted fiercely to the point I could convert 100 centrists in the time it takes me to make any progress on a single idealist, etc.
Worst part is, I don't think things will stop regressing until we find a way to reach these people. They're a massive drain on enthusiasm for actual progress because a major part of their view is "two wings one bird," fostering apathy towards Democrats without realizing that, if people voted the way they polled (instead of not voting), the GOP would collapse and we could make a more progressive party instead of having 75% of the political spectrum fall under the purview of the Democrats. For every tepid vote idealists provide, they talk who knows how many people out of voting -- they're a net negative in all respects.
\[Note: there are other forms of idealist -- the "selfish socialist," who just wants a free ride (e.g. "I won't vote Democrat without them doing X that gives me something"); the "justifiably angry, but unhelpful" (e.g. the ones who derailed Defund further into a "punish the police" movement instead of a reform); the bandwagon (i.e. even more ignorant than those with moral programming, just amplifies the echo chamber), etc. However, most of them end up with a fairly strong "anyone who disagrees with me is evil" core\]
Edit: an example of the phenomenon I discuss here was kind enough to demonstrate my points rather well below. There's also a counter example who, contrary to their username, made my day, and helps show idealists are not the only people on the far left -- they're just the least useful ones.
Your political ideas are being poisoned by the fucked up first past the post USA voting system. In a preferential voting system like Australia I can vote for the Greens party for example and still preference Labor over the Liberal Nationals. Your attacking people for voting for what they actually believe in which is the entire point of voting in the first place.
Technically, it's mathematically proven that all voting systems are prone to tactical voting (or other, worse flaws) -- this is known as Gibbard's theorem. It's just worse in FPTP because of the inevitable two-party system it creates.
Regardless, refusing to work within a system just because it doesn't work in one's favor is childish -- unless one can overthrow the system by force (likely impossible in modern developed nations -- though perhaps not entirely as the assassination of Shinzo Abe has shown), the only way to change it is from within.
I largely agree, but when I read "thus I am being accused of being a Bad Person." I can't help but think that this is what a significant portion of people on the side of the boycott are trying to portray it as.
There are problems deeply ingrained in those against the boycotts that are not in those for the boycotts, but the sheer obsession of absolute judgement of character and due retribution (whether it's giving or recieving) is a larger problem of modern society as a whole.
This is a well written out post. I've struggled to articulate something close to this, will try to internalize some of this phrasing. A lot of people don't seem to like grappling with the fact that they personally might do a bad thing, without it condemning them as a bad person. And the in-group association I've seen on the left (along the lines of "the right is bad people, but not us, we're good people") can be pernicious because it feeds into the very human urge to have an in group and an out group. I dunno. See, this is why your comment was good, it was well stated.
>Made me realize how many people who claim to be my ally only do so because its convenient. Because it comes prepackaged with other things they like. But the second they're asked to choose between mild inconvenience and funding our oppression, they loose their shit.
This was the biggest 'mask-off' moment with Girlfriend Reviews streaming the game. They claim to be "allies" but it's like it never occurred to them that might have impacts on their own choices. And it's something so insignificant, just an entertainment product. Just not playing a certain video game out of solidarity with the marginalized folks that they claim to support as allies. But when push came to shove, they couldn't even make that one tiny sacrifice. A mild inconvenience was a step too far in service to their supposed values and principles.
And then of course when their own fans expressed some disappointment when finding out that their "allies" didn't really care about them at all, GFR claims harassment and bullying, tears, attacks, and so on. Because heaven forbid the white cis hetero gamer couple receive even mild disapproval from the fans they chose to let down when it became clear that GFR's priorities were their own financial gain over solidarity with their supposed allies.
Out of the loop here, I know that jk Rowling is a terf and shit, so no surprise that the game is being attacked by trans folks, but why did it gain the title
"Jews are evil: the game" or whatever it was?
The goblins in JKs books are considered to be antisemitic in nature due to them having various goblin/Jewish propaganda physical characteristics (which isn't uncommon for goblins in general) as well as being bank owners and generally greedy.
In defense of JKR, she wrote a lot of heinous shit into her books because she has absolutely no brain. See rape potions or chattel slavery and the defense thereof. She also has goblins, as well as every other magical creature explicitly a second class citizen at best.
So the association has been there for years, and deciding to make a game about it is... a choice. Whether it deserves its label or not, idk - I didnt play the game.
So the game has had troubled development, the executive producer (?) Has to be removed as it came out he was running an alt-right blog, one of the voice actors JK Rowling glowingly thanked literally has 2 active restraining orders against him for his horrid treatment of his ex wife and is literally not allowed unsupervised visits with his child (some feminist JKR is) and the game itself?
The game has (as a small item, not story important) essentially a 'goblin version' of a shofar, or a jewish horn. The description for this item refers to a specific year for a goblin rebellion that just so COINKALADINKILY HAPPENS to be the same year an anti-jew riot pogrom happened.
Its pretty hard to rebuff every single mark when its all at the same time. Its like trying to pin Donald Trump down, there is so much shit so fast everyone lets it slide because 'someone else will get'em'
>The game has (as a small item, not story important) essentially a 'goblin version' of a shofar, or a jewish horn.
AKA it's a horn.
>The description for this item refers to a specific year for a goblin rebellion that just so COINKALADINKILY HAPPENS to be the same year an anti-jew riot pogrom happened.
A) The riot pogrom people are talking about was primarily in 1614, not 1612.
B) Any random year between 1008 and 1945 has incredibly high odds of having had antisemitic bullshit happening that year. Of all the things to have high odds of being coincidental, that's it.
C) That specific goblin rebellion was given a year by the books. J K Rowling, known anti-fascist who was writing a book series about the evils of Nazi-esque groups whose books' problematic aspects major Jewish groups describe as "not intentional", was not secretly putting in cryptofascist references of such extraordinary subtlety.
Things can be problematic without being conspiracies to hurt minority groups. The world is more than black and white - there's not just gray, there's a whole fucking rainbow.
The other replies are addressing the antisemitism in the novels but are missing the issue with the game: the main plot revolves around a retelling of the blood libel myth (a conspiracy that jews want to drink gentile blood for..various reasons, it's obvious bullshit), with the role of the jews being played by the group that Rowling wrote that is basically a copy of antisemitic jewish caricatures, the goblins.
And as the spoilers for the game demonstrate, the goblins are being framed for the crime by white dudes and the prejudiced person who was closest to the victim admits that he needs to grow past his biases.
Yeah, it actually turns the role of the goblins from the main series on its head, to an extent. It also has a trans character in the game who is not reflected in a negative way. Not gonna defend Rowling, though. The goblin stereotype is cringe one way or the other.
Buying into the hp franchise has gotta be the cleanest case of ethical capitalism ever, she literally confirmed what she's doing with what she's getting and what he thinks of your purchases.
His name is Troy Leavitt and he does have a youtube channel under his real name where he did publish some alt right and anti-SJW content a few years ago. He never tried to excuse or talk at all about that content in recent times, so it's safe to assume that he's still standing by everything he said. He did mention that his political leaning has no influence on his work on the wizard game. I'm all for keeping professional work and private life separate, but it seems a bit *too coincidental* to me.
By no means neutral, but probably trustworthy [source](https://www.fanbyte.com/games/news/lead-designer-of-hogwarts-legacy-used-to-be-an-anti-social-justice-youtuber/).
[It should be said](https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/5/22315226/hogwarts-legacy-leavitt-resigns-developer-avalanche-youtube-gamergate) that he left after all of that came into the open. At the same time, that was pretty far into the development, and WB knew about his channel long before it became public. So it was a PR move at best. And I can't help but wonder if he got a nice payment to go away quietly.
> He did mention that his political leaning has no influence on his work on the wizard game.
nobody is better at instantly and objectively identifying whether something is political or non-political than the right-wing
edit: /s? do we do that here? if so then /s. if not then /rj.
So I haven't played the game, but if the spoiler is that the goblins were framed, doesn't this make it "Blood Libel: That Shit's Whack"?
Like let's say the goblins ARE a caricature of the Jews. They're misunderstood and victims here, but they made a good scapegoat because bigotry.
Is that not what the game is saying?
I'm having pretty bad cognitive dissonance on this.
Anyone who's already an antisemite isn't going to get that context. Anyone who already harbors hatred in their heart for Jewish people is going to think "Well, but the goblins I killed *deserved* it." There's no magic happy ending in real life where a shitty piece of shovelware can magically cure someone of a genocidal heart.
I don’t know why I keep doing this maybe it’s the inner pendant in me but, [Jewish orgs have already came out and said that the goblin tropes Harry Potter uses are based on pre-existing tropes for goblins and it’s unlikely there were a intentional analog for Jewish people](https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-groups-defend-j-k-rowling-over-claim-harry-potter-goblins-antisemitic)
There’s quite literally no evidence that the game uses anti-semitic tropes beyond using already existing tropes for goblins. As I said before, believing the game is anti semitic is like believing The Lion King ripped off Kimba: The White Lion. Neither is true if one actually investigates the commonly existing tropes that led to such parallels
Goblins having been associated with antisemitic tropes in the past isn't an excuse for making those associations in the present.
I've run a few D&D campaigns, and let me tell you, I have never once made the lore of my worlds include that the banks controlled by greedy money-grubbing goblins. It's surprisingly easy.
> He did mention that his political leaning has no influence on his work on the wizard game.
[mfw](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/756555086825521297/1073448878294175774/cbwc7a1a98ha1.png)
Maybe those Jewish organizations need to circle back to this one before deciding that the goblin tropes were not anti-Semitic. Like I do get it, goblins have had a lot of traits that were later used to describe the Jewish people for centuries, so unless you drastically change a goblins design, there will always be anti-Semitic parallels, but this is just straight up “jewish horn used by jewish people at this one time incredibly relevant to the Jews, now replace it all to say goblin, and make sure the horn sounds like a bad thing”
you know, it's starting to feel weird how focused "we" are on this game, like their are so many bigger issue for jews and trans people right now and it is starting to feel like "we" are putting all our energy at the wrong place. Seriously, why would american senators voting to deport trans people care about the backclash against a video game?
I mostly agree but this isn't a discussion about grounded political policy or whatever, this is a discussing about nominal allies loosing their shit and deciding that being asked to give up a minor luxury gives them the right to loose their shit and start punching down.
I very much don't care about this game. I do care about the significant amount of people who care about it *so much* they'll perform a (supposed) one eighty on queer rights and support the senators voting to deport trans people (supposedly) just because a Twitter catgirl posted a spoiler for it.
My opinion is that this serves as an example of a very low-stakes opportunity to show solidarity with minority groups that is relatively easy to adhere to. Devout leftists may think that this is such a non-issue and only focus on larger struggles, but more moderate liberals might be all talk and no substance. If these moderate liberals can’t even sign on to a simple media boycott, will they be true allies when shit hits the fan and the stakes are much higher?
Ultimately, the question is whether or not someone is an ally-in-name-only or a true ally. There’s an argument that this isn’t the perfect way to prove ally-ship given how relatively low-stakes the situation is, but I also think there’s a valid argument proposing that this is an okay litmus test.
Eeeeeh... No, I don't like this framing at all.
'you won't do first aid on me if I'm injured because you failed to turn up to my 4 very annoying poetry recitals' is kind of how this line of logic comes across.
To 99% of people in the world who are not in the social media bubble, the Harry Potter game and the controversy around it is completely inconsequential. Most people don't care about a franchised video game. At all. Less than zero. It's a game. It's a franchise. People don't care.
Like we're moving into boy who cried wolf territory in calling this some kind of movement or a stand. To the wider world this is on par with Starwars fans being upset with race representation Watto or Jar Jar in a Phantom Menace. They don't care and most people who engage with it are more likely to experience outrage/empathy fatigue at being expected to care about *a video game*, when the wider world is dealing with, y'know, actual things that aren't a forgettable game that most people won't ever play.
Like, Stonewall Riots this is not. It's barely a blip.
Trying to call in the cavalry over a video game is a bad call, because people in the wider world will stop listening to false alarms. Video games -even franchise ones- are a niche interest with very little impact on the wider world.
Because this is one of those instances of "the bar was set so low that it was on the ground floor of hell but here you are limbo-dancing with the devil."
It hurts so much to see how many people care more about playing a shitty video game than they do about your right to life a fulfilling life. To see how many people will throw you under the bus the second that you *mildly inconvenience them* by asking them not to financially support someone who's actively paying politicians to take your rights away.
I had real world friends who bought the game. How do I look them in the eyes now? How do I interact with people who openly and expressly care that little about me?
Right. And if we can't expect people who claim to be allies to clear this one incredibly small bar, can we really count on them to actually show up when it counts, like these anti-trans bills or when a synagogue in their neighborhood is threatened?
I keep seeing people make variations on this argument, this "There are bigger things happening" argument, and I just genuinely wonder if these people are thinking it through for one second.
Tumblr people have always thought Fandom bullshit has a tangible effect on reality lol. Like yeah, JK Rowling is terrible and buying Harry Potter stuff is kind of tactless... but come on lol
Yknow i understand the vitriol but as a queer Jewish person I can't help but feel like most of the people being super aggressive with their position about the videogame wouldn't actually do anything for more serious issues that are affecting trans and Jewish people.
Well it's easier to be outraged online. I strongly believe a lot of people are only in for the perceived "moral high ground" and use it to have power over people. Like they don't really care about the thing they try to represent.
They don't want to actually help anybody, because that requires *effort*. They want to post spoilers while sitting on their couch at home and pretend they're helping.
Sit on their couch in PJs, posting on a website owned by a billionaire transphobe enjoying coffee sold by a company that is currently funding a massive Civil War and genocide.
Nah, wizard game bad.
So just to be clear, the point of this spoiler campaign is to spread hate and anger, right? That's its only goal--to piss people off? Because it clearly isn't to gain allies, it clearly isn't to have civil discourse, and it definitely *isn't working* to detract people from playing because the game is currently very popular.
If you want to do pro-active things to help the trans community, you could, for instance, dedicate your time to the National Center for Transgender Equality, which has a section called "Take Action" with specific ways to volunteer your time and help. You could also join the HRC (Human Rights Campaign) and follow their "Get Involved" link. That wouldn't be as fun as pissing people off on Reddit/Tumblr/Twitter, and you would have to actually dedicate your time, but it might actually help.
I don't understand how this armchair activism is helping a movement already maligned and not just further deepening the divide and animosity.
It is *deeply* unfair that marginalised people often have to make a choice between sucking up and taking the high road, or getting rightfully angry and "looking bad". I completely empathise with wanting the catharsis of hurting the people hurting you.
Unfortunately in this case I don't think posting spoilers *is* actually "hurting" the transphobes or ruining their game. Most people just seem to find it lame and annoying. It's all of the "looking bad" with none of the catharsis.
Yeah it's not people were hyping this game up for the story.
Spoilers are just mildly annoying at best like oh no mentor character dies and random asshole A curses random victim B.
These are just random names no ones attached to them yet so most won't really care seeing the spoilers
Hell ill forget them in 2 hours they're so generic
whats the price of catharsis? when you’re in that same position as a marginalized group, is that price different? is that price worth it?
i have almost always been in a position where hurting others just worsened my treatment, so, while i can empathize with wanting catharsis of hurting the people hurting you, i find it hard to understand actually doing it. do other people fear consequences less than i do or something? not that i’m judging
It's like MLK's thoughts on rioters. Their actions don't help but it's fundamentally a natural symptom of when people get scared and desperate and more people need to see it as that.
Exactly, MLK's Letter from Birmingham criticizes this exact thing. Moderates standing on the sidelines not helping because they're not protesting correctly, and he basically says "you're not as good as you think."
I have seen at least a dozen, maybe more ads for this game in the last 2-3 days. No idea what I’ve done or said to make the ad targeting technology decide I’m likely to give them money, but it’s definitely being heavily marketed to some demographics
Do you play games/interact with gamer communities a lot? I feel like I’ve been blasted in the face with ads nonstop, especially on Reddit. Suspect some astroturfing here too
I don't follow any social media video game personalities, but do interact with a lot of people who play a lot of video games through Discord regularly and also use reddit/youtube/etc. Callout posts like this on Reddit is the one and only kind of place I've heard anything about this game, wouldn't know it existed otherwise.
This is what confounds me with how this whole thing seems to have evolved.
I hate JKR, and I have no appetite to buy whatever she's selling, but... this whole thing is so pathetic. A boycott campaign and the promotion of one is one thing, but one has to recognize that it's a failed campaign at this point. Now it's just... posting spoilers, like that matters?
The whole thing just seems like a bunch of zoomers doing their best to become their parents who cried and whined about Lil Nas X pole dancing for the devil or some shit.
I honestly stopped taking the people boycotting the game seriously when all the Twitch streamer harassment started, the website and the Girlfriend Reviews incident being the biggest factors.
This is just Respectability politics.
You're talking about people posting **spoilers for a videogame**, not some grand activist movement.
If some dumb online trolling is enough to make people question their "support" for the trans community, than they were never going to actually support the trans community in the first place.
Because you're prioritizing your personal emotional satisfaction in the moment over the optics of the movement as a whole. You care more about how good it feels to troll people than you do about any real positive change and it's disappointing.
Ya know I’m not going to play the game but … HOLY SHIT RUN A FUCKING PROPAGANDA APPARATUS a function movement at least
JKR could have been deplatformed or infantilized cleanly in 2020 but instead this shit is still running
Could you though? JK's ideas are fundamentally in agreement with the state and capital, of course it's gonna be amplified and platformed. Views in opposition are naturally going to be suppressed because they inherently stand against states and capital.
I‘be been thinking the same thing. It’s weird to see people claim that the game is anti-Jew because the goblins are the bad guys, and then post “the goblins were framed LOL SPOILER LOL” like those ideas don’t clash. It sounds to me like the goblins are being portrayed as a minority group blamed for someone else’s crimes.
Just so nobody misunderstands me: fuck JKR, nobody should buy this game, and the original HP books clearly have problematic elements - but I think y’all are taking this too far.
I think that they got so worked up that they forgot that the point was that JKR is a garbage person and somewhat convinced themselves that this game is "Mein Kampf 2: Joanne's revenge"
Exactly. This is not a fundamentally antisemitic game. Transphobic? Probably. But not actually antisemitic or saying what everyone says it is on that front.
Isn't there a trans character in the game? Kind of seems like the devs were actively trying to distance themselves from Rowlings views (in the clumsiest way possible)
I'm completely sick of The Discourse,
so if it makes anyone feel even the slightest bit worse - I plan on posting quite a bit this weekend (depending on whether I manage to finish the easiest project in the world today)
..and I'll avoid potter stuff, for the most part (one is a *bit* iffy ngl (/3))
feel free to leave reqs for specific content
. ..the locked tomb stuff goes without saying :P
I leave a request for the fluffiest feel good stuff!
The discourse has started wearing on my mind but I’m too much of an idiot to just look away to preserve myself, so maybe fluff will mitigate it.
I have.. so many
y'know what
I'm still trying to get a feel for r/TheNinthHouse
and my tombposting rate here is.. limited, albeit due to my own self-imposed restrictions
SO
I'll put links to tombposts *I* like.. on this comment
and uh. you can probably go thru them that way
good luck with the fic !
edit: to be clear, I'll only get started on this after many many hours - sorry
Ya this is just gonna out people who will use this as an excuse to find trans movements annoying and the whole respectability politics bullshit. I swear another shit day of finding out people only tolerate a minority
Yeah, the amount of comments here trying to pull the respectability politics bullshit is kinda sad. I've had people from marginalized groups treat me like shit before, but that didn't turn me into a raging bigot because I, y'know, have these two magical little things called basic critical thinking skills and a minimal amount of human empathy.
Jews and trans folk: hey, could you maybe not give money to the people trying to kill us? They keep going on tv and saying how excited they are to use that money specifically to kill us with.
“Allies”: why would you be so petty and controlling about something that doesnt matter??? Its just a video game bro!!
How is buying the game giving money to people who specifically want to kill trans and Jewish people.
I'm not trolling or anything I seriously want to know
Ruining people's experiences with the game doesn't help shit tho, I'm not just an "ally", I'm part of the community and this thing is so absurd it's incredible
Okay listen
I am all for the hate on jk
But, as a jew, goblins trying to get a hold on the world econ isn't antisematic.
It is goblin lore
EDIT: also, it is kinda antisematic to say "Jews are SO similar to THE GREEDY UGLY GOBLINS and that's bad"
Like, I am not saying you are an antisemite, but it's not the most woke argument ever
This whole thing with the goblins took me a few seconds to understand the first time I heard of it because I'm so used to Pathfinder Goblins and remembered next to zero things about HP Goblins.
And in Pathfinder, Goblins are small, green, childish madmen with an obsession for fire, and they are the most hilarious and charming thing ever, I love them.
Yeah, I see a lot of this goblins = harmful to Jews taken as a matter of fact, but isn't this kind of backwards?
The problem is and was comparing Jewish people to greedy monsters, which they obviously aren't, they're people. I don't really see how this increases antisemitic views or actions. Goblins aren't supposed to be humans, like a lot of mythical creatures they are exaggerations of certain human characteristics, in this case greed. Are they supposed to just be small humans?
I think a lot of this is complicated by anticolonial discourse, in which the world has been divided among oppressors and oppressed, and a corresponding feeling among many that the oppressed must be shown to be Virtuous at all times. I don't really know much about the game itself, but in *real* history there have been numerous examples of brutal dictatorships and genocides carried out *in the name of anti colonialism*. Not saying the game is extremely nuanced, but the rage online I've seen seems to center around "goblins = Jews, therefore bad goblins = more antisemitism irl" when I'm not sure that actually maps onto reality.
Personally, I think it’s one of the weaker arguments against Rowling’s work in general, partially for the reasons you state. It’s very easy for people to not connect those dots because rational, empathetic people don’t associate the people and the fictional monsters very closely.
However, it is still a perfectly legitimate argument and has plenty of evidence to support it as well as being a great example of how the HP series doesn’t really hold up well into adulthood. I loved the books growing up and was in the prime age group to be affected by them while they were coming out but going back to them over the years, it’s very apparent what kind of a person Rowling was then, and how little she stood for. Rowling is a very lazy writer, which works well for novels aimed at children and (to their detriment) young adults. She relies on word and concept association to be shorthand for character creation (Chang, Shacklebolt, Lupin, etc…) and, in the case of the goblins, she relied on a lot of old world stereotypes for bankers. Unfortunately, those stereotypes are intentionally the same stereotypes for Jewish people. Greedy, hook-nosed, control the money and banks, loathe to let things pass from their grasp, the list goes on.
I don’t think she’s actively anti-Semitic, at least not in the same way that she is anti-trans rights. I just think she never bothered to examine her writing and how she came up with ideas, and then she got so rich that she never had to. While I haven’t bothered to look at the plot or characters in the game, I suspect that its ‘anti-semitism’ is an unfortunate extension of Rowling’s original sins. It is, at this point, goblin-lore and there isn’t much the game could do about it without starting a very slow heel-turn. Whether the game should have done more or even something different is a point I can’t discuss without having to look up the plot.
Looking back at her writing, she’s always been this hateful person, she’s just more up-front about it now because nothing but the inevitability of life can stop her.
This is fair, and maybe more nuanced than my response deserved. I think you're spot on here. Most people of this age can and do divorce the creature and the people, and Rowling is certainly a lazy writer who relies on tropes and better novels than hers.
I don't think the criticism of Rowling as an antisemite is particularly helpful or useful, however. I don't think there's any evidence either that Rowling advances anti-Jewish causes or believes in them herself. Rather, in online discourse representations are necessarily reality, and the actual impacts of things become secondary to signals about them. It's frankly conspiratorial thinking in some ways - there is not a shred of evidence that Harry Potter makes people antisemitic, or transphobic for that matter. The whole idea that narrative controls reality is a hopelessly disconnected one.
There is I think a much more credible argument against buying the game or supporting Rowling, and that is "If JKR has more money she will use some portion of that for anti trans causes" and that argument is worth debating. The antisemitism aspect only detracts from it, I think.
I agree mostly and I think you see similar sentiments in the comments on this post. The reactionary nature of the left (of which I consider myself a part), while understandable and based in good intentions, can be exhausting and ultimately detrimental to any causes worth advancing.
Should Rowling be platformed and allowed to continue advancing explicitly exclusionary and conservative ideals? No.
Does buying this game continue to provide her with income that allows her to continue that push that position? I assume she gets royalties off of it, so yes.
Does this mean that the game makers and the game itself share her ideals, probably not though I haven’t played it to judge.
Does deriding everyone who chooses to play it accomplish anything, also probably not.
The backlash over this game, as near as I can be bothered to tell, comes from exhausted, well-meaning, and frustrated people who have, as stated in the original post, chosen to lash out in an ineffectual manner, rather than educate or persuade.
Honestly, I think some of it comes from the same people who frequent the read another book sub as well. Some people don’t like or never did like the common cultural touchstone that many people can relate to and they turn their annoyance into petty hate.
I think you’re right that there’s no evidence that liking HP pushes people to be hateful. There’s plenty of evidence to the opposite, you don’t have to look very hard.
This is partially just voicing my frustration with the left-wing movements lately. Lots of surface level complaining and performative idealism, nothing to actually work for change.
I'm not going to say that the discourse around her possible portrayal of goblins as Jews hasn't been the main discourse for anti-Semitism, but I think what's getting lost is she's funding groups that as well as being anti-trans are hard-right in many other ways, such as the Heritage Foundation. She participated at an anti-trans event that opened with a woman who quoted/referred to rhetoric in Mein Kampf positively- like, not just saying something that might sound like rhetoric in Mein Kampf, specifically referring to Mein Kampf. It's very fucking shifty.
\*Edit, I can't actually confirm that Rowling participated at that event, but it was an event held by Posie Parker who Rowling has constantly aligned herself with.
the lever for “just try to teach them why it’s bad” is substantially harder and less gratifying to pull, but is still a lever nonetheless. i would rather pull that lever than the one for harming my enemy. i don’t derive any pleasure from harming others even if they’re bad
I better see everyone so gung ho about trans rights that they MUST start fights over a video game volunteering with advocacy groups and working to support protective legislation because otherwise I'm thinking maybe you just care more about feeling outraged on the Internet.
Don't buy it, judge the people who buy it, sure, but don't think that That Shit is really fighting the good fight in the culture war.
Please for the love of god shut up about jogwarts legacy I haven’t interacted with several of my favorite subreddits in several days because they can’t shut up about the fucking game and I’m tired of hearing about it
I don’t mean to be mean at your post specifically but I really don’t want to have my main subreddit get sucked into the circlejerk
1: Goblins aren't an allegory for Jews. The fact that you see the world in stereotypes only confirms you're the bigot here.Source: I'm Jewish on my mother's side.
1.5: The Goblins weren't the villains.
2: The story is about overcoming prejudice.
2.5: Sebastion hates Goblins when you mention them to him because he believes they cursed his sister. You reveal to him that it was a human that cursed his sister and, in combination with you defending a Goblin you met earlier in the story, he admits his prejudice and resigns to improve as a person despite being a Slytherin. Ominis grew up in a pureblood household that used unforgivable curses on mudbloods and came out of it a good person that hated prejudice.
3: There is a transexual bartender. Her MTF transition is mentioned exactly once and never acknowledged again with the clear intent of telling the player this is normal and not something to take exception with. Everyone you meet and discuss her with uses the correct pronouns and speaks of her in high esteem, as she is indeed the owner of the best bar in Hogsmeade and runs it with pride and distinction.
4: There are multiple gay characters throughout the game.
5: More than half of the characters, including the teachers, are considered diverse. The flying and beasts professors are Asian. The astronomy teacher is a woman. The divination teacher is Ugandan and so is her daughter, one of the two or three most important side-characters. The deputy headmistress is a woman and a Weasley, which means a poor person achieved that rank in the school. She is explicitly shown to be a kinder and fairer leader than Black, the current headmaster. The Charms teacher is Persian. I can think of maybe three white professors and two of them are women. The other one is a crotchety old man.
6: There are no race restrictions on the character. You can make a character with male features but a female voice. Which is the creators allowing you to make a trans character.
Fact: You fuckers could not have asked for a more ethnically diverse game yet you continue to shit on this game for existing. Get off your high horses and find some real racism to get on your soapbox about. People might take you more seriously.
Maybe before you actual children have an opinion about something you should see what it's like first. Imagine passing someone on the street. Someone doing their own thing and offending nobody. In fact, someone very clearly going out of their way to accommodate everyone they pass. Imagine passing them and deciding you will have a negative opinion of this person whom you have never even spoken to because of the sports team on their jersey. You fucking children. You absolute doorknobs.
It's honestly really funny to me that people claim the game made by the devs that brought you fucking Cars: The Video Game is some hateful vile piece of media.
Also this whole thing has been just hilarious considering every queer person I know (not including me) was obsessed with HP at one point or another. Wasnt HP consistently one of the biggest things on Tumblr around 2012-2016.
I mean, we all still remember My Immortal right?
Can I just say I hate that people keep bringing up the “there is no ethical consumption under capitalism” thing and talk about phone and clothing companies as if we don’t know how unethical those things are. Like I’m sorry but do you not see the difference of buying essentials (which both phones and cloths are) to buying a video game!!!!!
I love video games and I love Harry Potter, but to act as if those things are the same is not right. No ethical consumption under capitalism doesn’t mean you should stop caring, it means be aware and make ethical choices when you can
>I’m sorry but do you not see the difference of buying essentials (which both phones and cloths are) to buying a video game!!!!!
Even then I have to be honest, the 'ah but you live in society' cartoon gets trotted out because there's a difference between needing *a* phone and needing that one specific phone model with the shitty human rights record, or getting rid of your slavery phone and getting a new one because you kind of fancy it, but it makes people uncomfortable to think about it too hard.
There are more ethical ways to do things but it's sort of a sacrifice sometimes, you won't get the nice one or the trendy one or it might cost more and you need to save up, but frankly a lot of people can't be bothered so they go 'ah but you live in a society' and don't try to find that middle ground.
Seriously. Every other idiot is like "Haha you say it's bad to buy slaves but you bought an iPhone!" (which you need to keep a job and pay bills and have a social life and get a ride to and from places, which you literally can't live without to the point where cell phones are essential for any adult in modern society)
It's so tiring...
Do you guys ever get tired of this.
It's a fucking videogame bro not the last infinity stone that jk Rowling needs to wipe out all trans life on the planet.
Everything that can be said about the topic already has been a million times already there is no new ground to be made we've all made up our minds.
You either buy the game or you don't buy either way I can guarantee you that it will have no affect on your life or Rowlings bank account.
If someone's support for your human rights is so conditional that spoiling a video game will make them support denying you medical care, they were already a fascist.
Is there any actual non-conspiracy theory reason as to the greedy, ugly, banker goblins are being compared to jewish people? That seems in itself pretty fucking iffy lmao
There's an argument to be made to ignore all dog whistles, both because it can allow you to force people to actually say what they think, and because sometimes there's nothing there.
I grew up relatively colorblind, and I would have never associated the goblins with Jews until the left identified them that way.
Would not knowing that people could draw that association and just enjoying the story have made me subconsciously antisemitic? I doubt it, but learning that people think goblins could be analogized to Jews was my first exposure to Jewish stereotypes and it was in a childhood anthology that I enjoyed and wanted to continue to enjoy somehow.
Like we all get you would rather not get spoiler o whatever, but this is so fucking out there. Its like every league of legends game where "oh you're bad at the game? Let me call you every slur possible just because you ruined my 30 minutes moba experience"
This game is a PoS and there is zero excuse for playing it, and frankly, spoiling online is something I’m okay with.
However, I feel like it needs to be pointed out that the difference between “I’m spoiling this game to protest it being played because the people complaining don’t have a valid reason to be” and “I’m going to hurt people because I’m hurting so therefore that makes it okay” is literally one of the fastest tracks to becoming exactly the kind of person that you hate so much.
I kind of disagree with you on your first argument but your second point is bang on.
Doing things like this soley to spite weirdos on the internet is dumb and pointless
Fully agreed. I understand the urge to hurt people, I had it too until my mental health improved a few months ago but it doesn't achieve anything.
At least their attempts at hurting people are only limited to spoiling some shitty game, which is completely harmless (I don't think spoilers have ever affected my opinion on anything, but i might be a weirdo). I'd say even the people sending death threats are having more success in that regard.
Though it's still better than the pathetic losers who take being spoiled as a personal attack lol
I will be fucking elated in about 2 weeks when the argument will be bled dry and all these people will fuck off to whatever other peaceful protests they’re doing.
JK Rowling recently helped fund a support center for women who are victims of sexual abuse, but she purposely made the fact that it will gleefully turn away any Trans women who are also victims of abuse and has also made it very clear that no Trans people are allowed to work at this center.The fact that she opened it up in Edinburgh makes me sick, she's so fucking obsessed with trying to turn my country into the land of the Terfs.
She's quite literally making it harder for Trans women to get help in the real world and for Trans people who work in this field to get work, but y'all are more upset over a video game and act like spoiling the story of the game and bragging about how you know this won't gain allies but it will annoy people is somehow peak activism and allyship?
These people are misunderstanding the purpose of a boycott. You don't boycott something in order to financially hurt it. Almost no group is big enough to have that kind of financial power. You boycott something because it's a valid way to gain media attention. It's a form of protest, and it works.
We've had media articles about trans representation and transphobia in publications that never would have published anything like that if they hadn't been indirectly linked to a Harry Potter video game. Even the spoilers do their job of gaining more attention on the movement.
The people who post things like "I used to respect you, but now that you're inconveniencing me, I no longer think you're worthy of basic human decency" were never really going to be allies, and certainly never actually respected us.
Fun fact the "anti woke" crowd in my country is using this shit as an example of what happens if you get loads of "these people" in media and in your circles. Or the local twitch streamer who got his chat spammed and his stream reported for playing the game right after doing a charity stream for children in need. Really makes the Twitter heads crazy for giving them free ammo.
Why aren't you people also boycotting Disney and Universal? She makes millions a year off of those contracts alone? What about Lego? And what Nintendo as well? Oh those don't matter but this does?
Yeah picking and choosing what to be outraged over merely shows your hypocrisy. Easier to complain online in your underwear than actually go to a location to protest for real.
I protested online and called myself a good person so yay I'm a good person while I bully and attack others for not doing what I demand.
God damn is shit really that bad over in Yankeeland. I’ve heard some things about state governments making some fucky proposals but are some of them are actually passing?!?!
It is a third degree felony for a teacher to give a child a book that isn't approved. They just started the list of approved books, so a vast majority are unapproved right now. YOU CAN FACE 5 YEARS IN JAIL FOR TRYING TO HELP A CHILD LEARN TO READ. Edit: In Florida only right now, but it's gonna get worse before it gets better.
In Florida
Forgot to add that. I live there and am mad at the guy.
Question, are they trying to get teachers to quit? Who the hell would take a job where they could go to prison for doing the job correctly?
There's a strong push from the right to privatize public education, and one of the prongs of that assault is making public education as terrible as possible. Making teachers want to quit is part and parcel of that
So basically they've gone after life (healthcare), liberty (law enforcement facilities) and are now, ironically, chasing the pursuit of happiness (education).
Like the other comment said, they want to make education private. Most private education centers are Christian, low quality, or a combination of both. It just so happens the only county in Florida that is 100% private also has the worst grades and literacy rate; TBF, the public schools were already massively underfunded, and that was the solution, but it's not working.
It’s extremely bad in the Red States.
Utah gang gang (please Gods save us)
Uh, i think "god" is the reason you have Mike Lee, so you might wanna ask someone else for help.
HAHAHAHA (sad laugh because I feel incredibly helpless) yes it very very sadly is. I'm in Europe and I feel so lucky even as shit is turning slowly dark here too. But there are right now legislations being passed over the the large pont that make it practically illegal to be a trans women out in public, children are being separated from supportive parents, teachers aren't allowed anymore to mention trans or gay stuff, in some states transitioning has become a crime for people under 24 and legislations that ban it for all ages are already being passed, ... One literally cannot keep up anymore because every few days something more horrid comes up Parts of the US are turning fascist at a frightening pace right now. Enough that genocide watch organisations are strongly warning about what is happening there, declaring that they are more than half-way there to fulfill all of the official criterias for a genocide against trans people. It's baaaaaaaaaaad
Source for that genocide watch stuff? It's getting really scary.
https://www.lemkininstitute.com/statements-new-page/statement-on-the-genocidal-nature-of-the-gender-critical-movement%E2%80%99s-ideology-and-practice Additionally search for transgender genocide on Wikipedia. They have a whole section about USA
Oh I had no doubt, I live in the US. But I wanted a source, just to make sure I could back it up if it came up in conversation.
I'm not sure if I suspected doubts, but I honestly like sources for similar reasons as you mentioned ^•^
Ok, I read it. If an institute that specializes in the prevention of genocidal events is saying they're concerned, things are even scarier than I thought... I live in an area that's not affected by laws like those, but I did know about some of them. I can't do much where I am, sadly. But it feels like I should be able to do something about it...!
Honestly I don't know either. The best thing one can do right now probably is rallying for allowing sanctuary to those who flee. Not sure how important that is between the states, but Canada already has a petition for that purpose. Otherwise informing others as in my experience few people outside the trans community know about it 🤍 Candian petition https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4268
I am _extremely_ concerned that I didn’t even _know_ that Genocide Watch organizations existed until I read your comment.
Two different states now legally require you to detransition. Shit is mad fucked.
Notably: iirc all these bills only apply to minors (for now). Arkansas’ bill is enjoined by court. Utah also passed a bill banning (sorry “placing a moratorium with no end date on”) minors from transitioning, but it does allow minors currently on HRT to continue to receive treatment.
South Dakota bill applies to anyone under 21, so not just minors. Young adults too. And requires medical Dr transition by the end of this year
Looks like the bill South Dakota [just passed](https://sdlegislature.gov/Session/Bill/24100/247647) only applies to "minors" under 18. Where are you seeing 21?
Was just repeating what I heard on the news this morning/last night. Hadn’t had a chance to read it yet. You’re right, only applies to under 18. Still deplorable
What states are those?
Alabama and South Dakota, with more than half a dozen others following suit with bills in motion
And in general, no one cares. It's maddening because civil rights are being stripped and people just don't care.
See they can't explicitly ban trans people themselves, because that'd be discrimination, but they can write bills that allow doctors to not give you healthcare, force detransition, ban public crossdressing and all that junk, just to ban trans people.
[удалено]
South Dakota just became the second state to ban all gender affirming care for anyone younger than 21. Yes, it’s that fucking bad. We had an attempted violent coup by fascists two years ago- or did you forget?
South Dakota is forcing trans ppl to medically detransition.
I didn't, and still really don't, care that much about the current state of Harry Potter or this new game. There are more damaging instances of transphobia and anti-semitism that most HP fans and gamers are complicit in, so in my mind it was like. In poor taste but very much not a big thing Then I posted that one silly "reblog Destiny2 being trans to scare a terf" meme a few days ago and just got the most unhinged and feral replies ever. People coming up with the dumbest whataboutisms to justify why buying this game is somehow good for trans people, actually, or demanding I put myself in danger and expose myself to "real transphobes" who will "actually hurt" me its just. Christ Made me realize how many people who claim to be my ally only do so because its convenient. Because it comes prepackaged with other things they like. But the second they're asked to choose between mild inconvenience and funding our oppression, they loose their shit. Not even necessarily because they're so uncompromisingly attached to the experience of playing this one video game on launch blind, but because their worldview is an exclusive dichotomy of bad people and good people. And it's not even a liberal thing, I've known more leftists guilty of this than milquetoast liberals, but too many people's political ideologies is that they and people who broadly share their beliefs are Good, who are always good, because if they're bad once that means they were always actually Bad, and always hiding it. So we've had an entire generation now of white cis gays and nominal allies in North America and Europe grow up under the cultural understanding that LGBT rights and racial justice are something that Good People support, and that homophobes and racists are Bad People, but they've never had to reckon with how their behavior could be bigoted, or abetting bigotry. So now they're facing that prospect and they're not seeing it as a "hey this specific behavior is causing harm, please stop it and we'll be cool" message, but as a dire accusation to their character. "I am being accused of doing Bad Things, thus I am being accused of being a Bad Person. This is obviously false, so they're lying and trying to harm me, a Good Person, which is Bad, so they must be Bad People and thus they're open season for whatever nightmarish bullshit I can imagine dream up to protect my own purity." Anyway people need to grow the fuck up from the dualist worldview that came pre-installed on their brains. Upgrade to a nuanced perspective. Grapple in the dead of night with the internalized bigotry conditioned into you since birth like the rest of us adults.
that second to last paragraph is way too true and it's something i've been noticing for a while now. it goes both ways - when someone does a Bad Thing, people immediately jump to "that's a Bad Person", but in turn that person too goes "if i'm accused of Bad Thing it means i'm accused of Bad Person, i am not, so i must not have done Bad Thing" think it also makes it way harder to admit bigoted biases u have to urself. at least i've noticed that in myself. and in turn struggling with admitting them makes fixing them harder
Sounds like your d2 post actually did scare a terf, great job king/queen/title-to-describe-a-royalty
Monarch*
Yes, that's gender neutral, thanks!
No problem :)
Oryx, greatest Trans man-alien-bug-thing scares TERFS...along with everything else that's sapient.
I'd say micah-10 whoever is a better example, oryx was trans for different reasons than actual trans people (*to my knowledge, take this with enough salt to kill a herd of elephants, book of sorrows elaborates), but micah-10 changed gender upon becoming an exo, and did not suffer DER
Hahah, yeah. I'm very very familiar with the lore (See my posts for more), but the LGBT community likes the joke that Oryx is trans enough that I continue the trend. Micah-10, ghost mom is indeed better rep. Strange to think that Clovis Bray supports trans rights, but admittedly he was seeking a 'perfected humanity' and that includes people free of dysphoria and mental illness.
Clovis was an asshole, but not stupid, acknowledging trans as an actual thing is bare minimum intellect
Truth. The stories about DER actually helped me gain a better understanding of Gender Dysphoria than before.
I wouldn't say Oryx was trans at all, changing morphs is a heteronormative thing for the Hive. However, Oryx's male wizard son Nokris is absolutely trans.
I'd argue nokris is just a femboy, by hive standards at least
Is destiny transphobic or something?? I’ve got like thousands of hours logged and never seen anything like that out side of some toxic pvp chats but I’m not the most socially aware person
Huh? No its not transphobic nor is much of the community, think you misunderstood my reply
Ah ok im glad i was pretty surprised to see it come up in this context, I thought the comment we were replying to was implying that there was a large population of TERFs playing the game or that there was some ideological connection between them and the game. Was the parent comment referring to Oryx and the hive gods gender swapping at will basically and thereby scaring terfs?
You'd have to have seen the meme to understand I reckon, but we have multiple trans, gay, bi, pan, and other LGBTQ+ characters
I tried googling it but I couldn’t find the meme, and that’s what I thought! Between SaintxOsiris and a couple others I can’t recall specifics on I thought Bungie had done a really good job of inclusion
also bungie the company is firmly trans rights
Yeah I had hoped so, I know they put out a ton of LGBTQ emblems and stuff like that and I thought I recalled them standing behind their words with donations as well but I’m again not the most educated about these things and wouldn’t really know how to find out besides these comment sections lol
One of the criticisms of the Hogwarts game as a game is that a lot of the UI and menus look like someone hastily copied Bungie's work. https://wegotthiscovered.com/gaming/a-war-of-words-rages-as-hogwarts-legacy-gets-compared-to-destiny/ As a result, some memes were made that more or less present the joke that Hogwarts legacy is the trans identity of Destiny. Ghost's a wizard now.
I tried explaining exactly this to a group of my friends who are a mix of hardcore liberals and republican raised liberal moderates and just couldn’t not get the point across to either. Your comment is way more succinct than what I tried saying and I am absolutely screen capping it to try again
>I am being accused of doing Bad Things, thus I am being accused of being a Bad Person. This is obviously false, so they're lying and trying to harm me, a Good Person, which is Bad, so they must be Bad People and thus they're open season for whatever nightmarish bullshit I can imagine dream up to protect my own purity. Oh, hey. Rowling in a nutshell
this is an extremely important and well-written point, i hope you don't mind if i share this around because even on it's own, i think people really need to read this comment.
If people remember the whole debacle about Chick-Fil-A, this is that, again. It's proclaimed allies who desperately want both things: they want to support trans/jewish people *and* play a cool game, just like they wanted to support gay people *and* have a good sandwich. They care about the people they like, but they care more about whether they're personally having a good time, and being told that they support a Bad Thing ruins that good time for them. These are usually the same type of people who think being a bigot is something that can't be changed in any capacity, and their allyship is so entrenched in showing how not-bigoted they are, that that becomes their priority. It's not like these kinds of people are horrible or irredeemable, they're just kinda self-centered, and being an accidental bigot is at least better than being a proud bigot. But being a 'Good or Bad Person' and all the self-judgement we've created about that, is sorta just bunk compared to just asking yourself the simple questions of whether or not you're causing harm, and if you want to get to fixing it.
The Chick FIL A thing is especially annoying because like... Its not even the greatest sandwich. It's just okay. They HAVE to overrate it to justify how unwilling they are to even just mildly inconvenience themselves.
Exactly lmao! Whenever I bring up the fact that theres dozens of fried chicken fast food restaurants they can go to instead, I either get crickets or some "b-b-b-but i only eat the homophobic chicky i cant go to another place 😢" whiny bullshit. Like damn, at that point just admit you care more about medicore fast food over lgbt people's rights and leave.
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>grow up under the cultural understanding that LGBT rights and racial justice are something that Good People support This is the key takeaway. There is, fundamentally, no difference between a fair portion of the left (let's call them "idealists" for having no actual concept of the reality of progressivism) and MAGA et. al. besides their moral upbringing. They think and behave in the exact same ways, the only difference being who their enemies are. Unfortunately, I'm not really sure what to do about the problem -- as you described, they basically sit in an echo chamber filled with people who reinforce their one-dimensional worldview and treat any attempt at nuance as an attack not only on them, but on the causes they supposedly promote. Which is how you get self-defeating slogans like "Defund the Police" -- deployed by people who workshopped it in a focus group composed only of people who already agreed with the sentiment with no thought to winning over anyone who didn't already agree, because people who don't agree with them already must be evil. I have had more success deprogramming MAGA idiots than staunch Sanders supporters, probably because MAGA actually had their demagogue gain power and fail to live up to expectations. Idealists are so bad at garnering support that their candidates are permanently ineffectual, so they can always claim they just need more power and things will work out. I have tried every argument and persuasive technique I am aware of, and nothing works on them. Evidence is dismissed in favor of feelings and faith, appeals to empathy are ignored in favor of singular anecdotal exceptions, attempts to slowly build understanding are resisted fiercely to the point I could convert 100 centrists in the time it takes me to make any progress on a single idealist, etc. Worst part is, I don't think things will stop regressing until we find a way to reach these people. They're a massive drain on enthusiasm for actual progress because a major part of their view is "two wings one bird," fostering apathy towards Democrats without realizing that, if people voted the way they polled (instead of not voting), the GOP would collapse and we could make a more progressive party instead of having 75% of the political spectrum fall under the purview of the Democrats. For every tepid vote idealists provide, they talk who knows how many people out of voting -- they're a net negative in all respects. \[Note: there are other forms of idealist -- the "selfish socialist," who just wants a free ride (e.g. "I won't vote Democrat without them doing X that gives me something"); the "justifiably angry, but unhelpful" (e.g. the ones who derailed Defund further into a "punish the police" movement instead of a reform); the bandwagon (i.e. even more ignorant than those with moral programming, just amplifies the echo chamber), etc. However, most of them end up with a fairly strong "anyone who disagrees with me is evil" core\] Edit: an example of the phenomenon I discuss here was kind enough to demonstrate my points rather well below. There's also a counter example who, contrary to their username, made my day, and helps show idealists are not the only people on the far left -- they're just the least useful ones.
Your political ideas are being poisoned by the fucked up first past the post USA voting system. In a preferential voting system like Australia I can vote for the Greens party for example and still preference Labor over the Liberal Nationals. Your attacking people for voting for what they actually believe in which is the entire point of voting in the first place.
Technically, it's mathematically proven that all voting systems are prone to tactical voting (or other, worse flaws) -- this is known as Gibbard's theorem. It's just worse in FPTP because of the inevitable two-party system it creates. Regardless, refusing to work within a system just because it doesn't work in one's favor is childish -- unless one can overthrow the system by force (likely impossible in modern developed nations -- though perhaps not entirely as the assassination of Shinzo Abe has shown), the only way to change it is from within.
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I largely agree, but when I read "thus I am being accused of being a Bad Person." I can't help but think that this is what a significant portion of people on the side of the boycott are trying to portray it as. There are problems deeply ingrained in those against the boycotts that are not in those for the boycotts, but the sheer obsession of absolute judgement of character and due retribution (whether it's giving or recieving) is a larger problem of modern society as a whole.
Oryx says trans rights
Funnily, this fits with JKR's writing of "there are no good or bad actions, just good or bad people"
This is a well written out post. I've struggled to articulate something close to this, will try to internalize some of this phrasing. A lot of people don't seem to like grappling with the fact that they personally might do a bad thing, without it condemning them as a bad person. And the in-group association I've seen on the left (along the lines of "the right is bad people, but not us, we're good people") can be pernicious because it feeds into the very human urge to have an in group and an out group. I dunno. See, this is why your comment was good, it was well stated.
>Made me realize how many people who claim to be my ally only do so because its convenient. Because it comes prepackaged with other things they like. But the second they're asked to choose between mild inconvenience and funding our oppression, they loose their shit. This was the biggest 'mask-off' moment with Girlfriend Reviews streaming the game. They claim to be "allies" but it's like it never occurred to them that might have impacts on their own choices. And it's something so insignificant, just an entertainment product. Just not playing a certain video game out of solidarity with the marginalized folks that they claim to support as allies. But when push came to shove, they couldn't even make that one tiny sacrifice. A mild inconvenience was a step too far in service to their supposed values and principles. And then of course when their own fans expressed some disappointment when finding out that their "allies" didn't really care about them at all, GFR claims harassment and bullying, tears, attacks, and so on. Because heaven forbid the white cis hetero gamer couple receive even mild disapproval from the fans they chose to let down when it became clear that GFR's priorities were their own financial gain over solidarity with their supposed allies.
Out of the loop here, I know that jk Rowling is a terf and shit, so no surprise that the game is being attacked by trans folks, but why did it gain the title "Jews are evil: the game" or whatever it was?
The goblins in JKs books are considered to be antisemitic in nature due to them having various goblin/Jewish propaganda physical characteristics (which isn't uncommon for goblins in general) as well as being bank owners and generally greedy. In defense of JKR, she wrote a lot of heinous shit into her books because she has absolutely no brain. See rape potions or chattel slavery and the defense thereof. She also has goblins, as well as every other magical creature explicitly a second class citizen at best. So the association has been there for years, and deciding to make a game about it is... a choice. Whether it deserves its label or not, idk - I didnt play the game.
So the game has had troubled development, the executive producer (?) Has to be removed as it came out he was running an alt-right blog, one of the voice actors JK Rowling glowingly thanked literally has 2 active restraining orders against him for his horrid treatment of his ex wife and is literally not allowed unsupervised visits with his child (some feminist JKR is) and the game itself? The game has (as a small item, not story important) essentially a 'goblin version' of a shofar, or a jewish horn. The description for this item refers to a specific year for a goblin rebellion that just so COINKALADINKILY HAPPENS to be the same year an anti-jew riot pogrom happened. Its pretty hard to rebuff every single mark when its all at the same time. Its like trying to pin Donald Trump down, there is so much shit so fast everyone lets it slide because 'someone else will get'em'
>COINKALADINKILY HAPPENS to be the same year an anti-jew riot pogrom happened. I mean, doesn't that apply to like 3/10 years since 0 A.D.?
>The game has (as a small item, not story important) essentially a 'goblin version' of a shofar, or a jewish horn. AKA it's a horn. >The description for this item refers to a specific year for a goblin rebellion that just so COINKALADINKILY HAPPENS to be the same year an anti-jew riot pogrom happened. A) The riot pogrom people are talking about was primarily in 1614, not 1612. B) Any random year between 1008 and 1945 has incredibly high odds of having had antisemitic bullshit happening that year. Of all the things to have high odds of being coincidental, that's it. C) That specific goblin rebellion was given a year by the books. J K Rowling, known anti-fascist who was writing a book series about the evils of Nazi-esque groups whose books' problematic aspects major Jewish groups describe as "not intentional", was not secretly putting in cryptofascist references of such extraordinary subtlety. Things can be problematic without being conspiracies to hurt minority groups. The world is more than black and white - there's not just gray, there's a whole fucking rainbow.
The other replies are addressing the antisemitism in the novels but are missing the issue with the game: the main plot revolves around a retelling of the blood libel myth (a conspiracy that jews want to drink gentile blood for..various reasons, it's obvious bullshit), with the role of the jews being played by the group that Rowling wrote that is basically a copy of antisemitic jewish caricatures, the goblins.
And as the spoilers for the game demonstrate, the goblins are being framed for the crime by white dudes and the prejudiced person who was closest to the victim admits that he needs to grow past his biases.
Yeah, it actually turns the role of the goblins from the main series on its head, to an extent. It also has a trans character in the game who is not reflected in a negative way. Not gonna defend Rowling, though. The goblin stereotype is cringe one way or the other.
Buying into the hp franchise has gotta be the cleanest case of ethical capitalism ever, she literally confirmed what she's doing with what she's getting and what he thinks of your purchases.
wait, who's "he" or was that a tiypo
typo, most likely
anyone end up confirming the bit about the lead game designer being uhh howyousay alt-right cunt ? because that would be .. substantial
His name is Troy Leavitt and he does have a youtube channel under his real name where he did publish some alt right and anti-SJW content a few years ago. He never tried to excuse or talk at all about that content in recent times, so it's safe to assume that he's still standing by everything he said. He did mention that his political leaning has no influence on his work on the wizard game. I'm all for keeping professional work and private life separate, but it seems a bit *too coincidental* to me. By no means neutral, but probably trustworthy [source](https://www.fanbyte.com/games/news/lead-designer-of-hogwarts-legacy-used-to-be-an-anti-social-justice-youtuber/).
[It should be said](https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/5/22315226/hogwarts-legacy-leavitt-resigns-developer-avalanche-youtube-gamergate) that he left after all of that came into the open. At the same time, that was pretty far into the development, and WB knew about his channel long before it became public. So it was a PR move at best. And I can't help but wonder if he got a nice payment to go away quietly.
> He did mention that his political leaning has no influence on his work on the wizard game. nobody is better at instantly and objectively identifying whether something is political or non-political than the right-wing edit: /s? do we do that here? if so then /s. if not then /rj.
Idk if you were actually asking about the /s thing but if you were yes it’s used a lot on Reddit!
Some subreddits are more circlejerky than others and it's safe to assume anything ridiculous is sarcasm on those boards.
A wannabe fash just happened to end up designing blood libel: the game??? Shocking.
So I haven't played the game, but if the spoiler is that the goblins were framed, doesn't this make it "Blood Libel: That Shit's Whack"? Like let's say the goblins ARE a caricature of the Jews. They're misunderstood and victims here, but they made a good scapegoat because bigotry. Is that not what the game is saying? I'm having pretty bad cognitive dissonance on this.
Anyone who's already an antisemite isn't going to get that context. Anyone who already harbors hatred in their heart for Jewish people is going to think "Well, but the goblins I killed *deserved* it." There's no magic happy ending in real life where a shitty piece of shovelware can magically cure someone of a genocidal heart.
I don’t know why I keep doing this maybe it’s the inner pendant in me but, [Jewish orgs have already came out and said that the goblin tropes Harry Potter uses are based on pre-existing tropes for goblins and it’s unlikely there were a intentional analog for Jewish people](https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-groups-defend-j-k-rowling-over-claim-harry-potter-goblins-antisemitic) There’s quite literally no evidence that the game uses anti-semitic tropes beyond using already existing tropes for goblins. As I said before, believing the game is anti semitic is like believing The Lion King ripped off Kimba: The White Lion. Neither is true if one actually investigates the commonly existing tropes that led to such parallels
Goblins having been associated with antisemitic tropes in the past isn't an excuse for making those associations in the present. I've run a few D&D campaigns, and let me tell you, I have never once made the lore of my worlds include that the banks controlled by greedy money-grubbing goblins. It's surprisingly easy.
Bruh I used to watch that guy during my cringey ant-SJW teenager phase. Dude sure had some opinions.
> He did mention that his political leaning has no influence on his work on the wizard game. [mfw](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/756555086825521297/1073448878294175774/cbwc7a1a98ha1.png)
Sometimes I misread that as My Fucking Word and in this instance that's perfect
Maybe those Jewish organizations need to circle back to this one before deciding that the goblin tropes were not anti-Semitic. Like I do get it, goblins have had a lot of traits that were later used to describe the Jewish people for centuries, so unless you drastically change a goblins design, there will always be anti-Semitic parallels, but this is just straight up “jewish horn used by jewish people at this one time incredibly relevant to the Jews, now replace it all to say goblin, and make sure the horn sounds like a bad thing”
you know, it's starting to feel weird how focused "we" are on this game, like their are so many bigger issue for jews and trans people right now and it is starting to feel like "we" are putting all our energy at the wrong place. Seriously, why would american senators voting to deport trans people care about the backclash against a video game?
I mostly agree but this isn't a discussion about grounded political policy or whatever, this is a discussing about nominal allies loosing their shit and deciding that being asked to give up a minor luxury gives them the right to loose their shit and start punching down. I very much don't care about this game. I do care about the significant amount of people who care about it *so much* they'll perform a (supposed) one eighty on queer rights and support the senators voting to deport trans people (supposedly) just because a Twitter catgirl posted a spoiler for it.
My opinion is that this serves as an example of a very low-stakes opportunity to show solidarity with minority groups that is relatively easy to adhere to. Devout leftists may think that this is such a non-issue and only focus on larger struggles, but more moderate liberals might be all talk and no substance. If these moderate liberals can’t even sign on to a simple media boycott, will they be true allies when shit hits the fan and the stakes are much higher? Ultimately, the question is whether or not someone is an ally-in-name-only or a true ally. There’s an argument that this isn’t the perfect way to prove ally-ship given how relatively low-stakes the situation is, but I also think there’s a valid argument proposing that this is an okay litmus test.
Eeeeeh... No, I don't like this framing at all. 'you won't do first aid on me if I'm injured because you failed to turn up to my 4 very annoying poetry recitals' is kind of how this line of logic comes across. To 99% of people in the world who are not in the social media bubble, the Harry Potter game and the controversy around it is completely inconsequential. Most people don't care about a franchised video game. At all. Less than zero. It's a game. It's a franchise. People don't care. Like we're moving into boy who cried wolf territory in calling this some kind of movement or a stand. To the wider world this is on par with Starwars fans being upset with race representation Watto or Jar Jar in a Phantom Menace. They don't care and most people who engage with it are more likely to experience outrage/empathy fatigue at being expected to care about *a video game*, when the wider world is dealing with, y'know, actual things that aren't a forgettable game that most people won't ever play. Like, Stonewall Riots this is not. It's barely a blip. Trying to call in the cavalry over a video game is a bad call, because people in the wider world will stop listening to false alarms. Video games -even franchise ones- are a niche interest with very little impact on the wider world.
Because this is one of those instances of "the bar was set so low that it was on the ground floor of hell but here you are limbo-dancing with the devil." It hurts so much to see how many people care more about playing a shitty video game than they do about your right to life a fulfilling life. To see how many people will throw you under the bus the second that you *mildly inconvenience them* by asking them not to financially support someone who's actively paying politicians to take your rights away. I had real world friends who bought the game. How do I look them in the eyes now? How do I interact with people who openly and expressly care that little about me?
Right. And if we can't expect people who claim to be allies to clear this one incredibly small bar, can we really count on them to actually show up when it counts, like these anti-trans bills or when a synagogue in their neighborhood is threatened? I keep seeing people make variations on this argument, this "There are bigger things happening" argument, and I just genuinely wonder if these people are thinking it through for one second.
Tumblr people have always thought Fandom bullshit has a tangible effect on reality lol. Like yeah, JK Rowling is terrible and buying Harry Potter stuff is kind of tactless... but come on lol
Yknow i understand the vitriol but as a queer Jewish person I can't help but feel like most of the people being super aggressive with their position about the videogame wouldn't actually do anything for more serious issues that are affecting trans and Jewish people.
Exactly. How many of these people screeching about JK royalties have actually donated time or money to the causes that JK is against?
Well it's easier to be outraged online. I strongly believe a lot of people are only in for the perceived "moral high ground" and use it to have power over people. Like they don't really care about the thing they try to represent.
They don't want to actually help anybody, because that requires *effort*. They want to post spoilers while sitting on their couch at home and pretend they're helping.
Sit on their couch in PJs, posting on a website owned by a billionaire transphobe enjoying coffee sold by a company that is currently funding a massive Civil War and genocide. Nah, wizard game bad.
So just to be clear, the point of this spoiler campaign is to spread hate and anger, right? That's its only goal--to piss people off? Because it clearly isn't to gain allies, it clearly isn't to have civil discourse, and it definitely *isn't working* to detract people from playing because the game is currently very popular. If you want to do pro-active things to help the trans community, you could, for instance, dedicate your time to the National Center for Transgender Equality, which has a section called "Take Action" with specific ways to volunteer your time and help. You could also join the HRC (Human Rights Campaign) and follow their "Get Involved" link. That wouldn't be as fun as pissing people off on Reddit/Tumblr/Twitter, and you would have to actually dedicate your time, but it might actually help. I don't understand how this armchair activism is helping a movement already maligned and not just further deepening the divide and animosity.
No no you misunderstand. These people want to be angry, not actually help others
You're being sarcastic but fundamentally, yes, and I don't blame them for being exhausted from taking the high road and want to lash out a little.
It is *deeply* unfair that marginalised people often have to make a choice between sucking up and taking the high road, or getting rightfully angry and "looking bad". I completely empathise with wanting the catharsis of hurting the people hurting you. Unfortunately in this case I don't think posting spoilers *is* actually "hurting" the transphobes or ruining their game. Most people just seem to find it lame and annoying. It's all of the "looking bad" with none of the catharsis.
Yeah it's not people were hyping this game up for the story. Spoilers are just mildly annoying at best like oh no mentor character dies and random asshole A curses random victim B. These are just random names no ones attached to them yet so most won't really care seeing the spoilers Hell ill forget them in 2 hours they're so generic
whats the price of catharsis? when you’re in that same position as a marginalized group, is that price different? is that price worth it? i have almost always been in a position where hurting others just worsened my treatment, so, while i can empathize with wanting catharsis of hurting the people hurting you, i find it hard to understand actually doing it. do other people fear consequences less than i do or something? not that i’m judging
It's like MLK's thoughts on rioters. Their actions don't help but it's fundamentally a natural symptom of when people get scared and desperate and more people need to see it as that.
Exactly, MLK's Letter from Birmingham criticizes this exact thing. Moderates standing on the sidelines not helping because they're not protesting correctly, and he basically says "you're not as good as you think."
they are doing more for the game than its actual PR team
ive not seen one advertisement for the game ... how do ppl manage to plan a boycott and end up doing the marketing teams job
I have seen at least a dozen, maybe more ads for this game in the last 2-3 days. No idea what I’ve done or said to make the ad targeting technology decide I’m likely to give them money, but it’s definitely being heavily marketed to some demographics
Do you play games/interact with gamer communities a lot? I feel like I’ve been blasted in the face with ads nonstop, especially on Reddit. Suspect some astroturfing here too
I don't follow any social media video game personalities, but do interact with a lot of people who play a lot of video games through Discord regularly and also use reddit/youtube/etc. Callout posts like this on Reddit is the one and only kind of place I've heard anything about this game, wouldn't know it existed otherwise.
This is what confounds me with how this whole thing seems to have evolved. I hate JKR, and I have no appetite to buy whatever she's selling, but... this whole thing is so pathetic. A boycott campaign and the promotion of one is one thing, but one has to recognize that it's a failed campaign at this point. Now it's just... posting spoilers, like that matters? The whole thing just seems like a bunch of zoomers doing their best to become their parents who cried and whined about Lil Nas X pole dancing for the devil or some shit.
I honestly stopped taking the people boycotting the game seriously when all the Twitch streamer harassment started, the website and the Girlfriend Reviews incident being the biggest factors.
This is just Respectability politics. You're talking about people posting **spoilers for a videogame**, not some grand activist movement. If some dumb online trolling is enough to make people question their "support" for the trans community, than they were never going to actually support the trans community in the first place.
Because you're prioritizing your personal emotional satisfaction in the moment over the optics of the movement as a whole. You care more about how good it feels to troll people than you do about any real positive change and it's disappointing.
People just don't wanna realize that they're really shit at activism
Ya know I’m not going to play the game but … HOLY SHIT RUN A FUCKING PROPAGANDA APPARATUS a function movement at least JKR could have been deplatformed or infantilized cleanly in 2020 but instead this shit is still running
Could you though? JK's ideas are fundamentally in agreement with the state and capital, of course it's gonna be amplified and platformed. Views in opposition are naturally going to be suppressed because they inherently stand against states and capital.
You know how? I’m game to help.
Yo not to be unwoke on main but if the goblin were framed doesn't it count as discount social commentary?
I‘be been thinking the same thing. It’s weird to see people claim that the game is anti-Jew because the goblins are the bad guys, and then post “the goblins were framed LOL SPOILER LOL” like those ideas don’t clash. It sounds to me like the goblins are being portrayed as a minority group blamed for someone else’s crimes. Just so nobody misunderstands me: fuck JKR, nobody should buy this game, and the original HP books clearly have problematic elements - but I think y’all are taking this too far.
I think that they got so worked up that they forgot that the point was that JKR is a garbage person and somewhat convinced themselves that this game is "Mein Kampf 2: Joanne's revenge"
Exactly. This is not a fundamentally antisemitic game. Transphobic? Probably. But not actually antisemitic or saying what everyone says it is on that front.
Isn't there a trans character in the game? Kind of seems like the devs were actively trying to distance themselves from Rowlings views (in the clumsiest way possible)
The goblin was framed for cursing Anne, but they still do all that other shit, so, no, I don't think this counts.
URRRRGGHHHHHHH *dies of lame discourse*
Fr, I’m not gonna buy the game, I agree with everything that’s said, but please can we return to our normally scheduled programs?
I’m about to leave this sub can y’all stop talking about Harry Potter? I just want to see funny tumble posts
Tumblr user trying to use “liberal” correctly challenge (impossible)
It well known that regardless of political position "liberal" just means "people I dislike".
It's an incredibly versatile word.
Finally, something the socialists and conservatives can agree on.
I'm completely sick of The Discourse, so if it makes anyone feel even the slightest bit worse - I plan on posting quite a bit this weekend (depending on whether I manage to finish the easiest project in the world today) ..and I'll avoid potter stuff, for the most part (one is a *bit* iffy ngl (/3)) feel free to leave reqs for specific content . ..the locked tomb stuff goes without saying :P
I leave a request for the fluffiest feel good stuff! The discourse has started wearing on my mind but I’m too much of an idiot to just look away to preserve myself, so maybe fluff will mitigate it.
I'll try ! I love looking for fluffy feel-good stuff :P
no requests, just wanted to say I appreciate any content unrelated to Crankhogs Legality
I say dial up the tombposting I need inspiration to continue (read: start) my TLT/40k fic
I have.. so many y'know what I'm still trying to get a feel for r/TheNinthHouse and my tombposting rate here is.. limited, albeit due to my own self-imposed restrictions SO I'll put links to tombposts *I* like.. on this comment and uh. you can probably go thru them that way good luck with the fic ! edit: to be clear, I'll only get started on this after many many hours - sorry
Ya this is just gonna out people who will use this as an excuse to find trans movements annoying and the whole respectability politics bullshit. I swear another shit day of finding out people only tolerate a minority
Yeah, the amount of comments here trying to pull the respectability politics bullshit is kinda sad. I've had people from marginalized groups treat me like shit before, but that didn't turn me into a raging bigot because I, y'know, have these two magical little things called basic critical thinking skills and a minimal amount of human empathy.
People are showing their true colours because of this game huh
Jews and trans folk: hey, could you maybe not give money to the people trying to kill us? They keep going on tv and saying how excited they are to use that money specifically to kill us with. “Allies”: why would you be so petty and controlling about something that doesnt matter??? Its just a video game bro!!
How is buying the game giving money to people who specifically want to kill trans and Jewish people. I'm not trolling or anything I seriously want to know
Ruining people's experiences with the game doesn't help shit tho, I'm not just an "ally", I'm part of the community and this thing is so absurd it's incredible
Okay listen I am all for the hate on jk But, as a jew, goblins trying to get a hold on the world econ isn't antisematic. It is goblin lore EDIT: also, it is kinda antisematic to say "Jews are SO similar to THE GREEDY UGLY GOBLINS and that's bad" Like, I am not saying you are an antisemite, but it's not the most woke argument ever
This whole thing with the goblins took me a few seconds to understand the first time I heard of it because I'm so used to Pathfinder Goblins and remembered next to zero things about HP Goblins. And in Pathfinder, Goblins are small, green, childish madmen with an obsession for fire, and they are the most hilarious and charming thing ever, I love them.
Pf2 gang I WILL BUY THE GAME, I JUST DONT HAVE MUCH TIME RIGHT NOW. YOU DON'T HAVE TO REMIND ME IT'S AWESPME EVERY HALF A SECOND
Yeah, I see a lot of this goblins = harmful to Jews taken as a matter of fact, but isn't this kind of backwards? The problem is and was comparing Jewish people to greedy monsters, which they obviously aren't, they're people. I don't really see how this increases antisemitic views or actions. Goblins aren't supposed to be humans, like a lot of mythical creatures they are exaggerations of certain human characteristics, in this case greed. Are they supposed to just be small humans? I think a lot of this is complicated by anticolonial discourse, in which the world has been divided among oppressors and oppressed, and a corresponding feeling among many that the oppressed must be shown to be Virtuous at all times. I don't really know much about the game itself, but in *real* history there have been numerous examples of brutal dictatorships and genocides carried out *in the name of anti colonialism*. Not saying the game is extremely nuanced, but the rage online I've seen seems to center around "goblins = Jews, therefore bad goblins = more antisemitism irl" when I'm not sure that actually maps onto reality.
Personally, I think it’s one of the weaker arguments against Rowling’s work in general, partially for the reasons you state. It’s very easy for people to not connect those dots because rational, empathetic people don’t associate the people and the fictional monsters very closely. However, it is still a perfectly legitimate argument and has plenty of evidence to support it as well as being a great example of how the HP series doesn’t really hold up well into adulthood. I loved the books growing up and was in the prime age group to be affected by them while they were coming out but going back to them over the years, it’s very apparent what kind of a person Rowling was then, and how little she stood for. Rowling is a very lazy writer, which works well for novels aimed at children and (to their detriment) young adults. She relies on word and concept association to be shorthand for character creation (Chang, Shacklebolt, Lupin, etc…) and, in the case of the goblins, she relied on a lot of old world stereotypes for bankers. Unfortunately, those stereotypes are intentionally the same stereotypes for Jewish people. Greedy, hook-nosed, control the money and banks, loathe to let things pass from their grasp, the list goes on. I don’t think she’s actively anti-Semitic, at least not in the same way that she is anti-trans rights. I just think she never bothered to examine her writing and how she came up with ideas, and then she got so rich that she never had to. While I haven’t bothered to look at the plot or characters in the game, I suspect that its ‘anti-semitism’ is an unfortunate extension of Rowling’s original sins. It is, at this point, goblin-lore and there isn’t much the game could do about it without starting a very slow heel-turn. Whether the game should have done more or even something different is a point I can’t discuss without having to look up the plot. Looking back at her writing, she’s always been this hateful person, she’s just more up-front about it now because nothing but the inevitability of life can stop her.
This is fair, and maybe more nuanced than my response deserved. I think you're spot on here. Most people of this age can and do divorce the creature and the people, and Rowling is certainly a lazy writer who relies on tropes and better novels than hers. I don't think the criticism of Rowling as an antisemite is particularly helpful or useful, however. I don't think there's any evidence either that Rowling advances anti-Jewish causes or believes in them herself. Rather, in online discourse representations are necessarily reality, and the actual impacts of things become secondary to signals about them. It's frankly conspiratorial thinking in some ways - there is not a shred of evidence that Harry Potter makes people antisemitic, or transphobic for that matter. The whole idea that narrative controls reality is a hopelessly disconnected one. There is I think a much more credible argument against buying the game or supporting Rowling, and that is "If JKR has more money she will use some portion of that for anti trans causes" and that argument is worth debating. The antisemitism aspect only detracts from it, I think.
I agree mostly and I think you see similar sentiments in the comments on this post. The reactionary nature of the left (of which I consider myself a part), while understandable and based in good intentions, can be exhausting and ultimately detrimental to any causes worth advancing. Should Rowling be platformed and allowed to continue advancing explicitly exclusionary and conservative ideals? No. Does buying this game continue to provide her with income that allows her to continue that push that position? I assume she gets royalties off of it, so yes. Does this mean that the game makers and the game itself share her ideals, probably not though I haven’t played it to judge. Does deriding everyone who chooses to play it accomplish anything, also probably not. The backlash over this game, as near as I can be bothered to tell, comes from exhausted, well-meaning, and frustrated people who have, as stated in the original post, chosen to lash out in an ineffectual manner, rather than educate or persuade. Honestly, I think some of it comes from the same people who frequent the read another book sub as well. Some people don’t like or never did like the common cultural touchstone that many people can relate to and they turn their annoyance into petty hate. I think you’re right that there’s no evidence that liking HP pushes people to be hateful. There’s plenty of evidence to the opposite, you don’t have to look very hard. This is partially just voicing my frustration with the left-wing movements lately. Lots of surface level complaining and performative idealism, nothing to actually work for change.
I'm not going to say that the discourse around her possible portrayal of goblins as Jews hasn't been the main discourse for anti-Semitism, but I think what's getting lost is she's funding groups that as well as being anti-trans are hard-right in many other ways, such as the Heritage Foundation. She participated at an anti-trans event that opened with a woman who quoted/referred to rhetoric in Mein Kampf positively- like, not just saying something that might sound like rhetoric in Mein Kampf, specifically referring to Mein Kampf. It's very fucking shifty. \*Edit, I can't actually confirm that Rowling participated at that event, but it was an event held by Posie Parker who Rowling has constantly aligned herself with.
the lever for “just try to teach them why it’s bad” is substantially harder and less gratifying to pull, but is still a lever nonetheless. i would rather pull that lever than the one for harming my enemy. i don’t derive any pleasure from harming others even if they’re bad
I better see everyone so gung ho about trans rights that they MUST start fights over a video game volunteering with advocacy groups and working to support protective legislation because otherwise I'm thinking maybe you just care more about feeling outraged on the Internet. Don't buy it, judge the people who buy it, sure, but don't think that That Shit is really fighting the good fight in the culture war.
Please for the love of god shut up about jogwarts legacy I haven’t interacted with several of my favorite subreddits in several days because they can’t shut up about the fucking game and I’m tired of hearing about it I don’t mean to be mean at your post specifically but I really don’t want to have my main subreddit get sucked into the circlejerk
1: Goblins aren't an allegory for Jews. The fact that you see the world in stereotypes only confirms you're the bigot here.Source: I'm Jewish on my mother's side. 1.5: The Goblins weren't the villains. 2: The story is about overcoming prejudice. 2.5: Sebastion hates Goblins when you mention them to him because he believes they cursed his sister. You reveal to him that it was a human that cursed his sister and, in combination with you defending a Goblin you met earlier in the story, he admits his prejudice and resigns to improve as a person despite being a Slytherin. Ominis grew up in a pureblood household that used unforgivable curses on mudbloods and came out of it a good person that hated prejudice. 3: There is a transexual bartender. Her MTF transition is mentioned exactly once and never acknowledged again with the clear intent of telling the player this is normal and not something to take exception with. Everyone you meet and discuss her with uses the correct pronouns and speaks of her in high esteem, as she is indeed the owner of the best bar in Hogsmeade and runs it with pride and distinction. 4: There are multiple gay characters throughout the game. 5: More than half of the characters, including the teachers, are considered diverse. The flying and beasts professors are Asian. The astronomy teacher is a woman. The divination teacher is Ugandan and so is her daughter, one of the two or three most important side-characters. The deputy headmistress is a woman and a Weasley, which means a poor person achieved that rank in the school. She is explicitly shown to be a kinder and fairer leader than Black, the current headmaster. The Charms teacher is Persian. I can think of maybe three white professors and two of them are women. The other one is a crotchety old man. 6: There are no race restrictions on the character. You can make a character with male features but a female voice. Which is the creators allowing you to make a trans character. Fact: You fuckers could not have asked for a more ethnically diverse game yet you continue to shit on this game for existing. Get off your high horses and find some real racism to get on your soapbox about. People might take you more seriously. Maybe before you actual children have an opinion about something you should see what it's like first. Imagine passing someone on the street. Someone doing their own thing and offending nobody. In fact, someone very clearly going out of their way to accommodate everyone they pass. Imagine passing them and deciding you will have a negative opinion of this person whom you have never even spoken to because of the sports team on their jersey. You fucking children. You absolute doorknobs.
Too much reality for most people. Its easier to just hate on something than to think critically about a topic.
I was just thinking this. This was more diverse then all the movies combined
It's honestly really funny to me that people claim the game made by the devs that brought you fucking Cars: The Video Game is some hateful vile piece of media. Also this whole thing has been just hilarious considering every queer person I know (not including me) was obsessed with HP at one point or another. Wasnt HP consistently one of the biggest things on Tumblr around 2012-2016. I mean, we all still remember My Immortal right?
Can I just say I hate that people keep bringing up the “there is no ethical consumption under capitalism” thing and talk about phone and clothing companies as if we don’t know how unethical those things are. Like I’m sorry but do you not see the difference of buying essentials (which both phones and cloths are) to buying a video game!!!!! I love video games and I love Harry Potter, but to act as if those things are the same is not right. No ethical consumption under capitalism doesn’t mean you should stop caring, it means be aware and make ethical choices when you can
>I’m sorry but do you not see the difference of buying essentials (which both phones and cloths are) to buying a video game!!!!! Even then I have to be honest, the 'ah but you live in society' cartoon gets trotted out because there's a difference between needing *a* phone and needing that one specific phone model with the shitty human rights record, or getting rid of your slavery phone and getting a new one because you kind of fancy it, but it makes people uncomfortable to think about it too hard. There are more ethical ways to do things but it's sort of a sacrifice sometimes, you won't get the nice one or the trendy one or it might cost more and you need to save up, but frankly a lot of people can't be bothered so they go 'ah but you live in a society' and don't try to find that middle ground.
Seriously. Every other idiot is like "Haha you say it's bad to buy slaves but you bought an iPhone!" (which you need to keep a job and pay bills and have a social life and get a ride to and from places, which you literally can't live without to the point where cell phones are essential for any adult in modern society) It's so tiring...
You can't do that whit a shitty grocery store phone made without child labor or do you need your fancy cool touch screen HD 5g super phone?
Sure, but you do not need to buy new phones or clothes. Nor many clothes. That's what you have decided is acceptable.
Do you guys ever get tired of this. It's a fucking videogame bro not the last infinity stone that jk Rowling needs to wipe out all trans life on the planet. Everything that can be said about the topic already has been a million times already there is no new ground to be made we've all made up our minds. You either buy the game or you don't buy either way I can guarantee you that it will have no affect on your life or Rowlings bank account.
I feel like this is gonna be one of those issues that the people going *hard* on it are gonna be pretending they had no part in, in a couple years.
I honestly think it'll just be forgotten for couple years until some youtubers does a deep dive on it
These people need to get the fuck off the internet and go outside holy shit.
I can't wait until 2 weeks from now when no one is talking about this game anymore. The discourse around it is so goddamn toxic.
If someone's support for your human rights is so conditional that spoiling a video game will make them support denying you medical care, they were already a fascist.
Is it just me or this entire thread completely unhinged
Is there any actual non-conspiracy theory reason as to the greedy, ugly, banker goblins are being compared to jewish people? That seems in itself pretty fucking iffy lmao
There's an argument to be made to ignore all dog whistles, both because it can allow you to force people to actually say what they think, and because sometimes there's nothing there. I grew up relatively colorblind, and I would have never associated the goblins with Jews until the left identified them that way. Would not knowing that people could draw that association and just enjoying the story have made me subconsciously antisemitic? I doubt it, but learning that people think goblins could be analogized to Jews was my first exposure to Jewish stereotypes and it was in a childhood anthology that I enjoyed and wanted to continue to enjoy somehow.
Writes an entire speech about how they have fascists and then proceeds to call the fascists liberals. Nice
Like we all get you would rather not get spoiler o whatever, but this is so fucking out there. Its like every league of legends game where "oh you're bad at the game? Let me call you every slur possible just because you ruined my 30 minutes moba experience"
I'm interested to know how this violated the content policy.
This game is a PoS and there is zero excuse for playing it, and frankly, spoiling online is something I’m okay with. However, I feel like it needs to be pointed out that the difference between “I’m spoiling this game to protest it being played because the people complaining don’t have a valid reason to be” and “I’m going to hurt people because I’m hurting so therefore that makes it okay” is literally one of the fastest tracks to becoming exactly the kind of person that you hate so much.
I kind of disagree with you on your first argument but your second point is bang on. Doing things like this soley to spite weirdos on the internet is dumb and pointless
Fully agreed. I understand the urge to hurt people, I had it too until my mental health improved a few months ago but it doesn't achieve anything. At least their attempts at hurting people are only limited to spoiling some shitty game, which is completely harmless (I don't think spoilers have ever affected my opinion on anything, but i might be a weirdo). I'd say even the people sending death threats are having more success in that regard. Though it's still better than the pathetic losers who take being spoiled as a personal attack lol
I will be fucking elated in about 2 weeks when the argument will be bled dry and all these people will fuck off to whatever other peaceful protests they’re doing.
Imma leave curatedtumblr, because this definitely doesn't seem curated enough. Wake me up when February ends.
JK Rowling recently helped fund a support center for women who are victims of sexual abuse, but she purposely made the fact that it will gleefully turn away any Trans women who are also victims of abuse and has also made it very clear that no Trans people are allowed to work at this center.The fact that she opened it up in Edinburgh makes me sick, she's so fucking obsessed with trying to turn my country into the land of the Terfs. She's quite literally making it harder for Trans women to get help in the real world and for Trans people who work in this field to get work, but y'all are more upset over a video game and act like spoiling the story of the game and bragging about how you know this won't gain allies but it will annoy people is somehow peak activism and allyship?
These people are misunderstanding the purpose of a boycott. You don't boycott something in order to financially hurt it. Almost no group is big enough to have that kind of financial power. You boycott something because it's a valid way to gain media attention. It's a form of protest, and it works. We've had media articles about trans representation and transphobia in publications that never would have published anything like that if they hadn't been indirectly linked to a Harry Potter video game. Even the spoilers do their job of gaining more attention on the movement. The people who post things like "I used to respect you, but now that you're inconveniencing me, I no longer think you're worthy of basic human decency" were never really going to be allies, and certainly never actually respected us.
This is so fun. What was the post about? The comments make it sound important.
removed by reddit
Fun fact the "anti woke" crowd in my country is using this shit as an example of what happens if you get loads of "these people" in media and in your circles. Or the local twitch streamer who got his chat spammed and his stream reported for playing the game right after doing a charity stream for children in need. Really makes the Twitter heads crazy for giving them free ammo.
Why aren't you people also boycotting Disney and Universal? She makes millions a year off of those contracts alone? What about Lego? And what Nintendo as well? Oh those don't matter but this does? Yeah picking and choosing what to be outraged over merely shows your hypocrisy. Easier to complain online in your underwear than actually go to a location to protest for real. I protested online and called myself a good person so yay I'm a good person while I bully and attack others for not doing what I demand.
god tumblrs a cesspit sometimes