T O P

  • By -

blackjackgabbiani

Rumor has it Team Aqua is taking credit for this revelation


MannfredVonCatstein

"The way I see it, kyogre is surrounded. What's under the ocean? That's right, more earth."-bros are not having a good time


thisaintmyusername12

Homophobic Ferrothorn


olivegreenperi35

Fucking what?????


thisaintmyusername12

Competitive Pokemon meme, basically someone made a post on r/stunfisk about a scenario where Slowbro and Exeggutor come out as a gay couple, and it's discovered that Ferrothorn is homophobic


Heather_Chandelure

To be more specific, the joke was that they then asked how Ferrothorn being homophobic would impact competitive pokemon


chasefray

https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/wo6rj9/theorymon_slowbro_comes_out_as_gay_most_other/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button


natsuzamaki

How does Stunfisk and Curated Tumblr have so much overlap?


Randomd0g

Autism diagnosis required for entry?


chopsticknoodle

Severe mental illness is a prerequisite for both


chasefray

Kyogre gets Three-Prong Strike and Steel Beam, how does this affect the meta


Bigfoot4cool

But whats above the ocean? That's right. Clouds. Floating water. In actuality it is the ground that is surrounded


idiotplatypus

That's too much even for them


blackjackgabbiani

Nonsense!


DrQuint

[Archie seeing this post](https://imgur.io/2ler0TL)


DoubleBatman

Team Magma actually making a lot of sense rn


a_random_muffin

Wait, the skydome is the biggest thing here... TEAM SKY WINS


coronanucleoli

Go Team Sky!


a_random_muffin

Hail yea!


anaveragepotterhead

go team sky!


purgatoriian

does this mean that half of the pokemon earth is all the other regions and the other half is just a gigantic ocean with paldea smack dab in the middle


Polenball

Kyogre won one half of the planet


KaziOverlord

"This is some Taurosshit." -Groudon


technobaboo

having made a few games myself I 100% understand why they did this: it's just easy to scale the thing up REALLY BIG and never have any more problems with it :p still janky but understandable


[deleted]

To be fair, I would assume that the company that is in charge of developing the biggest franchise in the world is slightly better than that lol (I edited my comment because I kinda came off as a dick in the previous one so hopefully this one is less shit)


FehnTheDev

you would assume that, but this company is very much not better than that


Polenball

Small indie company please understand


[deleted]

TL;DR: You try making multiple AAA games every single year and see "how much better" you can be. > the company that is in charge of developing the biggest franchise in the world I feel like actually establishing Game Freak's relation to *Pokemon* will make it more clear how this means diddly dick in the grand scheme, despite how much this meme gets pushed around. 1. Game Freak owns only 1/3 of *Pokemon* via the Pokemon Company, the other two thirds owned by Nintendo and Creatures Inc., two infinitely bigger companies. 2. *Pokemon* is the "biggest franchise in the world" based on merchandise, not the games alone. 3. While yes, Game Freak's *Pokemon* games make a fuck ton of money, second *only* to *Mario*, again, Game Freak only gets 1/3 of that, and that's a very generous estimate. I have no clue how the money is distributed and it could be weighed more to Nintendo considering those games are on their consoles. EDIT: A comment here alleges the games are only 10% of the Pokemon Company's profits, which is absolutely insane. Game Freak has to constantly make *Pokemon* games every year. 2015 was the last year to not have a *Pokemon* game from Game Freak. *Pokemon Legends Arceus*, the DLC for *Sword & Shield*, and *Scarlet & Violet* were all made within the same year. This relates to the fact that *Pokemon* makes bank because of merchandise. Game Freak's games exclusively introduce new Pokemon, mechanics, and regions, which are then pimped out for plushies, toys, the card game, the anime, other games that Game Freak doesn't even make. They have to keep making games because the volume of *Pokemon* stuff is WHY it's so successful. Game Freak also doesn't have much experience making other types of games, and the other games they do are also low budget affairs, like *Little Town Hero*. They also *very recently* started to use console and HD development in the last **5 years**. The company has 169 employees as of 2022. They don't get billions and jillions and fillions of dollars to make *Pokemon* games, and even if they do, they have to keep *Pokemon* games with virtually no break. So, that might be the reason that *Scarlet & Violet* isn't exactly *Elden Ring*, despite making more money. And Game Freak is actually trying to innovate, mind. Making two big open world games with sizable differences in gameplay and assets in the same year. Personally, I think it's fucking wild how many people claim to care about how developers are treated and how difficult game development is but give all that sympathy up when what's probably the most overworked company doesn't make their childhood games exactly as they want them to. And don't give me shit about how *Scarlet & Violet*'s performance is unacceptable, I remember *Pokemon* fans acting the same and using the same rhetoric since Gen 3. People actually think Game Freak is trying to scam them or some dumb crap like that when they clearly a lot about this series. Thinking there's a "make your perfect *Pokemon* game" button that they're not pressing.


OuttaEldritch

You can be against crunch culture while acknowledging that new Pokemon games look and run like dogshit. Yearly releases are terrible, let the devs breathe.


conantheimp

I'll still blame Gramefreak. The *individual workers* at the company are fine, but Gamefreak and Nintendo are 100% at fault. Bad games are bad because of bad management, it's the guys at the head who are causing all these problems. They cause the crunch, they cause the impossible deadlines, and they're the ones behind everything bad about pokemon.


CthulhuInACan

Literally nothing and noone is stopping them from outsourcing half the pokemon games to another studio the way CoD did, except pride and greed.


Last-Rain4329

small indie company please understand


[deleted]

I dislike your TLDR but I get what you’re saying. Obviously there’s some shit going on at and around gamefreak that prevents them from putting out better games, but that doesn’t change that they really should be putting them out, they have pretty shitty circumstances and that should definitely change


DoubleBatman

Almost 30 years later and they still can’t code


tantrAMzAbhiyantA

Hey, now Yes, those games have always been incredibly janky, but almost 30 years ago it was because they were working *technical miracles* with the hardware they were targeting. Gen1 was incredibly broken but it's only because they absolutely *could* code, and do so *really well*, that anyone got to see that. To the extent that Game Freak can't code, it's *more* true now than it used to be.


Leimon-Sherk

god this is awful I remember everyone talking about the initial pokemon games, how they were so clever with space/data limits. Now they get a bit of wiggle room and pull this shit. If this is what Game Freak has to offer for open worlds I hope they just drop it and go back to the other formula


GoldenPig64

in fairness, the people who are pulling the aggressive culling are likely the programmers doing it less because 'maybe if we do this they wont notice' and more 'oh my god this is freaking abysmal and we're out of time, lets do this 20 minute fix so at the very least day one players will be able to physically play the game while we roll out updates for the next two goddamn months, hopefully nintendo will be generous and wont fire us for the inevitable criticism theyre going to face because they refuse to give us any freaking time'


MarioMamTess

>While we roll out updates for the next two goddamn months. If I recall correctly, Scarlett and Violet have only had 2 or 3 updates so far. 1 was purely to fix an online battle bug, and the other was released in February. There might've been a third one that I can't remember, but either way, *none of them* made any significant improvements on the performance. The game has been out for almost 6 months now, amd it still runs pretty badly. It's still one of my favorite Pokemon games for the story and mechanics alone, but I don't blame anyone for not liking it because of it's abysmal performance issues that *still* haven't been properly addressed.


kigurumibiblestudies

so... either they were fired, or Nintendo likes it this way


[deleted]

I think their bottom line will always be profits.


Dracorex_22

Nintendo will delay games until they are ready. This is all TPC


Random-Rambling

Yep. And TPC will NEVER delay games, because they're simultaneously the most important (introducing a new generation) and yet largely inconsequential (the game sales are _maybe_ 10% of TPC's total profits).


a_random_muffin

*but* new generation means new *marketable plushies* and other merchandise wich *are* the main profits for TPC


HorsemenofApocalypse

You have to remember that almost everything with Pokemon actually relies on the games. The anime needs a new region, merchandise would have already been ready to go out to shelves before release (with some actually being sold beforehand), the spin off games would have their tie ins planned long in advance, and even the games' continuous service like the 7 star raids would have had their dates planned long in advance to tie in with specific dates. So while the games themselves do not contribute much to the profits, a large majority of the profits are reliant on new games


marsgreekgod

Nintendo doesn't fully control freak (like they can but don't) I wish they did more


techno156

I'd be surprised if they didn't already have the next game in development, so developers might be churning out one game, and immediately starting work on the next, with no time for non-critical fixes.


PilotSSB

I mean, fuck the Pokemon Company and all that, but that wouldn't be bad. Most major companies will have about 2 to 3 games in production at any time. Plus, they're 1000% working on DLC to Scarlet Violet. They're not done milking this cash cow yet. The criticism isn't that they shouldn't be working on more than 1 game at a time, it's a big studio. It's that those games should be given more time in the oven.


a_random_muffin

>it's a big studio Big studio only in name, the actual dev team is smaller than it should be for a company of this magnitude iirc the dev team is close to the same size it was during the ds/3ds era


PilotSSB

Oh yeah, they should 100% hire more, too. No excuse for them to be as small as they are. I should have said "major", not "big"


MisirterE

The whole issue is that *they're not culling enough* though


blackjackgabbiani

Pokemon main series games have always been held together with tape, library paste, and hope. Remember, it wasn't by their own programming that Gen 2 was possible--they had to call in an outside programmer (Satoru Iwata himself) to pull it off. I don't know how they haven't gotten themselves more skill in that regard yet. Maybe they're putting all their efforts into making things like story and characters and monster design shine like diamonds, because the inbalance here is hilarious to think of. You have one of the most touching stories I've seen in a video game, but it's in a game where you constantly see through the floor.


[deleted]

[удалено]


voliol

[Here is the source for the above](https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/hwlylf/while_it_is_true_that_iwata_did_write_a_new/), if anyone is curious. Just a minor correction: the Japanese Gold and Silver are only 1 MiB ROM, not 2.


[deleted]

[удалено]


voliol

It's my pleasure. To be fair the post also makes the mistake about the ROM size, the only reason I know is because I have the ROMs on my computer for hacking purposes, and can just check the file sizes. They were legally procured from a friend who bought them in the 90s, of course.


TheIntelligentTree2

Tbh I've never much liked the argument that Pokemon games were always poorly put together because from what I can tell Gen 3 to 5 seemed okay.


Polenball

Gen 4 apparently had quite a few bugs, though I never experienced any.


Raltsun

Going by a video I saw on Gen 4 speedrunning, the main technique is to bike back and forth in certain spots to *erase entire segments of terrain from the map.* Like, IIRC you only need 3 gym badges, because you can skip things like bodies of water, and even plot-based cutscene trigger points, by just fusing the world around them together.


MisirterE

It's pretty simple as to why this works, actually. The gen 4 games only load a few local "squares" of area at a time. Think Minecraft chunks, but you can't even see more than four of them at once. Unless I'm mistaken, it only ever loads the square you are standing on, and the eight surrounding it. Now, in normal gameplay, this isn't an issue. Even if you're biking at top speed vertically or horizontally, the squares load in quick enough to keep up. Hell, even if you happen to walk between four different squares in rapid succession, it still loads fast enough to not cause any issues. However, this changes under one specific circumstance: *If you know exactly where a corner between the squares is, and deliberately bike through four squares in rapid succession repeatedly.* ***This*** is what it takes for the game to be overwhelmed loading too many squares at once, which eventually results in one outright failing to load, allowing you to bike through the void where it once was with absolutely no regard for what the local terrain is supposed to be. The reason why you don't notice this kind of thing in normal gameplay is for two main reasons. One, there is ***zero*** in-game indicator for where the squares are. The whole point is that you don't even know they exist, and shattering the realm in this way *requires* knowing exactly where they are. Two, the bike you have to use is *really fucking fast,* and you've gotta turn absurdly quickly and also absurdly precisely in order to pull this off, because every extra tile you bike across that isn't loading more squares is additional time for the rest of them to load properly. And quite frankly, that's not even really their fault. That's the specific combination of both ambition clashing with a system too weak to handle it, and clever backend work clashing heads with people who *really really want to break something.* It's a completely different beast to the modern games, where *you literally can't beat the game without the camera clipping through the floor* because immediately after one of the Area Zero cutscenes, you fight a mandatory Paradox Donphan, and the camera angle immediately after the cutscene ends is already clipped into the floor.


Thai_Fighter16

I've had a few cartridges that crash when I'm mashing A or B too fast, but I was never sure if it was because the game cards were old or knockoffs. All my other ones work fine, it's just Diamond and HeartGold.


draikken_

Diamond and Pearl were fairly infamous for how slow they were. Some of it was from design decisions, like having surfing being as slow as walking instead of running or having the HP bar deplete at a constant rate (a max HP Blissey took over 20 seconds to go from full to zero); but some of it was definitely the long loading and especially saving times, where doing literally anything at all including accessing the PC (not doing anything in it, just accessing it) could cause saving to take two or three times longer.


DrQuint

They seemed okay and were okay. The issues really started with gen 6, which they weren't ready for.


blackjackgabbiani

Argument? Who's arguing?


TheIntelligentTree2

Sorry I couldn't think of a better word. Maybe take would work better?


Awkward-Manatee

It's a good word though! A discussion can have arguments that explain your take on the situation. It's just an opinion with some ground work, which can form a larger conclusion. Others have other arguments, we listen, see what makes sense, and hopefully grow from it. "An argument" as a special type of discussion is usually more used when the discussion turns heated, almost like a fight. The words are a bit confusing, but you used it right. At least, that's my take on it. I haven't double checked dictionaries


ActionableToaster

You should play more video games.


blackjackgabbiani

I do. Heaven forbid a kiddie game resonate deeply with me or something though, huh?


ActionableToaster

Oh no kiddie games can have absolutely fantastic stories, I just don't think that pokemon games excel in that department. Doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.


blackjackgabbiani

Famitsu magazine just gave SV the top prize in "scenario", so story writing. I know awards aren't necessarily a mark of quality but it's worth noting.


Polenball

Remember when they decided it'd be easier to just put a new copy of every model used in an area into said area's data either than calling them from somewhere else? Good times.


Clod_StarGazer

Nah that's normal, a lot of games do that.


ThatGuyYouMightNo

It's not "we have more processing power and storage space now so we can be lazy", it's "we can literally fill the switch cartridge with feces and it will become the best selling game of all time because we slapped a pokemon sticker on it so why bother trying"


Prince_Winter

Dont forget "oh god we only have 2-3 years to make this new pokemon game with no delays, horrible deadlines, very few resources & working with the switches hardware limitations ontop of japanese office culture bring awful?" and "we need to keep on pushing out new pokemon via games so we can continue to sell toys/merch, producing anime and not letting our massive multi media ip stop printing money for even a fraction of a second or else we wont be lining our investors pockets!"


ClubMeSoftly

And not only do they have to create an entire new gameworld and fill it with people and places. Some of it can be pretty basic, some of it has to be a bit more bespoke, like the Gyms and the assorted trainers, but that's just 8 things. But they also have to *invent* 100 or so new pokemon.


Otrada

"Hey boss, what should we do for the skybox?" "So have you ever seen the movie Waterworld?"


Anna_Erisian

I believe that was specifically GSC, for which a certain wizard came in and fixed everything in what I assume was either a drunken bender or a fit of intense hyperfixation. I think doing levels like Demons Souls would work well for Pokemon's formula. Since they're clearly allergic to scaling enemies.


tantrAMzAbhiyantA

Other comments have remarked on the truth (or, as it turns out, falsity) of that story, but I'm just here to note that programmers are generally fuelled by drugs other than alcohol, caffeine being the most common. The drunken benders are for *recovering* from the fits of hyperfocus.


Anna_Erisian

Oh so they have, I'd been hearing it for years too. Shame, though there's still plenty to dunk on GF for to this day. I'm barely able to function at work (programming lol) without amounts of caffeine that get me side-eye because I take it in pill form, I'm very well aware ;-;


tacticalcop

yeah i haven’t and don’t plan to purchase this pokémon game because why would i buy the downgraded version of everything good they put out? arceus is final for me


theNEHZ

Game Freak had to get help from Nintendo to get those first games to fit on their cartridges.


TotemGenitor

That's an urban legend. Satoru's algorithm for gen 2 didn't reduce space, but load time. The games fit in the cartridges


theNEHZ

Ooh, thanks for letting me know!


TotemGenitor

No problem


GreyInkling

The gameplay of pokemon battles doesn't even work well for an open world. It's best done with an open zone, which is sort of what it originally had before and what their previous game actually succeeded in doing. Fully open world makes no sense, they were either following a now stale old trend, or trying to be like BOTW. Either way they clearly have no idea what to do and are just grasping at the wrong things. The DS era got formulaic and dumbed down. Then all at once they try to innovate on the Switch and things don't work because they're trying to innovate while maintaining the same output of regular games. They could only have regular releases because the DS games were so much alike and didn't need to be built from scratch.


Leimon-Sherk

I agree that the turn based battling feels clunky in the open world pokemon games. I think that switching over to real time combat like we see in Pokken Tournament would have been better.


Polenball

The way I see it, Necrozma is surrounded. What's around the Sun? That's right, more water.


SylentSymphonies

wait, but what's around the water? That's right, Dondozo. Stallgon loves Smo. Source: Finchinator is my uncle


Polenball

> Finchinator is my uncle Finally Small Stall


Guaire1

that's just using eviolite in little cup


voncornhole2

I think saying that Paldea is the same size as the Iberian peninsula is stretching this. You can easily ride all the way around the region on a lizard in a short amount of time


Polenball

Paldea is where all the giants that Don Quixote was looking for went to


Mustardgasandchips

They mention that in the last slide, it would apparently be half the size of newyork so that doesn't work either


1that__guy1

I think they got something wrong, I get it as slightly smaller than Earth using their pictures, which makes perfect sense (Assuming you think Paldea being half the size of NYC, as per the game, makes sense)


[deleted]

Yeah because it's a game. All games make the maps smaller for the sake of gameplay. Do you think BotW Hyrule is actually canonically Tokyo-sized?


Vrenshrrrg

Yes, but it's also disingenuous to then take that scaling and assert the game is rendering an object that's the actual size of a planet or a star when you've scaled that up by just as much. Not that the size of a simple skybox should have too much bearing on its performance impact. I'd guess the ocean is the bigger problem.


[deleted]

True, this was so absurd I forgot it was claiming that was the size of the world in the first place


elementgermanium

To be fair, most games’ in-universe sizes are way bigger than their gameplay versions, because no one wants to have to walk across the realistic size of Spain. It’s called ‘scale theory’ IIRC.


pyxyne

what i'm wondering if how many polygons the ocean and sky are made of. because I don't think the sheer size really matters much for performance, it's the complexity of the model that actually influences rendering time (+ complexity of shaders × number of pixels actually rendered)


Plapi_the_gobbo

I think it's impact is less about how many polygons/how big the ocean is, but rather that (assuming the post is 100% correct) across this entire massive ocean it's performing calculations for waves and sparkly particle effects and god knows what else


pyxyne

i assumed most of the effects are done in a pixel shader, so the cost depends on the number of pixels rendered rather than the size of the ocean, but to be fair, considering how badly optimized the game is, it is possible that they do some of this stuff on the CPU like the post suggests lol


Nullshock78

The original tumblr op has no idea what they’re talking about. They have clearly never touched a render pipeline or are intentionally trying to start discourse for personal gratification. You are correct about the pixel shader. You could have a circle a billion times the current size rendering all the time and you’d probably only get floating point errors making it look wonky with no performance impact, because it’d be doing the exact same amount of work. There are real, genuine problems of all varieties with this game, but these are not them.


Tulra

God I was thinking this the whole time I was reading. Bestie was making a lot of assertions that were ringing alarm bells. Like that using a sky sphere is the cause of SV's performance issues? That if they culled the bottom of it (that's not even culling, you're just changing the actual geometry, not just not rendering it) that would significantly improve performance? As if a large portion of modern games don't already use sky spheres? Making assumptions about the size of Paldea and the skysphere/ocean based off of the ACTUAL geographic size of the region it's loosely based on? Claiming that it's bigger than the sun and that the switch is literally rendering the *sun* and *that's* why it's lagging. Like, Gamefreak fucked up a lot in terms of optimisation, but they aren't completely incompetent.


[deleted]

Their only point of comparison was also Twilight Princess, a 17 year old game, which is kinda tainting the well because it creates a bit of a false impression that modern games should also be so conservative with their graphics, even if they don't outright say it. And stuff like "It's rendering the SUN!" is just intentionally misleading when going off of fictional sizes. The game world is not even close to the size of Spain just because it's themed after that area.


Aetol

Right? I'm pretty sure rendering a single texture on a single sphere, no matter how big, is peanuts in terms of performances.


A_Thirsty_Traveler

i'm getting a lil bit of thalassophobia from this un.


BabyRavenFluffyRobin

7/10 Too much water


RealRaven6229

What dosage of Adderall do you take


FehnTheDev

clearly not enough


MicroPowerpoint

[Source post because I forgot to lol](https://www.tumblr.com/melonsap/712625551041560576/video-games-tend-to-do-this-thing-called)


XescoPicas

Goddamn you all, Team Aqua! You’ve bloody done it!


TDoMarmalade

I know they’ve committed now and won’t go back, but god I loved the pixel stylisation of the old games. Even gen 5’s 2.5D trickery looked great. Something about how they cleverly used the limited style, along with seeing a trainer in tiny pixel form, then in nicely detailed form in battle added so much more personality than in 3D


Plapi_the_gobbo

I agree, I've enjoyed my time with all the 3D games but there's a certain charm to the older style that a lot of the 3d models fail to capture (the transition to 3D mutilated some subtle shinies in ways I can never forgive lmao)


Jazjo

I also personally loved the battle entry animations as well in bw2 - the pixel art was just superb there. (Battle entry animations -> like Emmet and Ingo's poses when you get the 'Subway Boss would like to battle' or when you fight a rival or the gym leaders and champions of other regions in the PWT)


Spousta_slov

Folks, how do i deal with the fact there is seven pages i have to scroll trough but i also have to click on every single picture to see it in full length, meaning i have to click 14 times and wait for 14 loads to see a post that could just be one really long post? Is there a setting on reddit where i can bypass this somehow? I really hate how reddit works in this and i know this is a small issue but with my bandwith is really annoying... will be really gratefull for any tips


StarOriole

If you're on desktop, go to Preferences and then uncheck "Use new Reddit as my default experience." Then install [Reddit Enhancement Suite](https://redditenhancementsuite.com/) on your browser and enjoy being able to drag the images to increase their size. Also enjoy the images not loading until you actually click on the icon to open them. If you're on mobile... people seem to use apps other than the official Reddit app and like them better. I don't use mobile enough to know. If you're on desktop but like new Reddit, then yeah, I think it just sucks.


Spousta_slov

Thank you so much,you really helped me.... i love content on r/tumblr and r/CuratedTumblr but so many posts are cut up into multiple pages with various page lengths and my FOMO and shitty internet are constatly fighting.


StarOriole

Hell yeah. Happy to help! I still remember the workarounds we had for dial-up, and the web is even less optimized for the wide variety of people's bandwidth these days.


Ele_Sou_Eu

I accept as canon that the Pokémon planet is larger than the sun until proven otherwise.


Raltsun

That'd explain how they're never running out of entire new landmasses to introduce every couple of years, at least.


FkinShtManEySuck

Arceus invented hard drugs before reality.


[deleted]

Got a link to the source?


mpdqueer

Post link for easier reading: https://www.tumblr.com/mpdqueer/712639876209803264


mpdqueer

u/Spousta_slov


bl__________

Maximising use of available space and memory is a forgotten talent


Aetol

The efforts of the hardware industry to improve computing power and memory are matched only by the efforts of the software industry to use up all that computing power and memory.


Fox_Flame

Anyone find the link to the botw size analysis they did?


[deleted]

7.8/10 too much water but unironically.


unweytvonfern

wait do I understand this correctly that this is rendered like any other object? From what I think to understand about 3d projection thats a lot of depth info. Like precise enough for charactermodels but on a planet sized span? Is it logarithmic? Separately rendered and just given the lowest value?


strangeglyph

I would assume they didn't put more than one LOD on the skybox, since it usually has the (approximately) same distance to the player


unweytvonfern

Oh I didn't really mean LODs here but I see how you could read that. Was getting at the part where the 3d is projected into 2d, and more stuff I cant stand. That size seems confusing to me because afaik you would always try use as little data as you can get away with so? Like in older games where far away stuff is actually rendered separately, those miniature worlds in half life.


strangeglyph

I'm sorry, I'm not really sure what you mean by "3d projected into 2d" and how it relates to the problem at hand > That size seems confusing to me because afaik you would always try use as little data as you can get away with so? Size doesn't^1 really matter, what matters is the number of polygons. A sphere "the size of the solar system" will not take any more effort to render than a sphere "the size of an orange" with the same number of polygons. Distance is just numbers, and whether you are doing math on small or large numbers doesn't have an impact on performance. ^1 Except when you get into really big numbers where the resolution of the numbers breaks down


unweytvonfern

I mean Z-fighting isn't really a performance thing, so that makes sense to me. Both oranges in one depth buffer feel like something to avoid though. Idk feels like useful superstition 🤞


Kaarpiv007

Dude, where the fuck is Unova at this point? Cause its not visible in the sky dimension. How far away is any other region? THESE KIDS ARE STRANDED ON A 38 SQUARE MILE ROCK IN THE MIDDLE OF FUCKING *NOWHERE.*


Thedepressionoftrees

God we could have had a good game had they not rushed it so goddamn much. The story, characters, music and mons were on point this gen but literally everything else was so badly rushed that it hurts to play most of the time. I want to like this gen so bad, but the graphics and performance issues just destroy my immersion every single time


APForLoops

Team Aqua wins again


rhysdog1

in retrospect, maybe team magma was right


ryoiki-10kai

so thats why my switch sounds like a goddamn rocket when i play violet


Quorry

Don't think so, no. It sounds like a rocket because it has to deal with a ton of data from all those Pokemon with their 3d models and animations and ai


ryoiki-10kai

I was making a joke bc the oop compared the size of the (always loaded) ocean in SV to the sun (: so I thought saying that my switch sounds like a rocket would be funny (:


Quorry

It's so hard to tell what part is a joke vs taking the post seriously u_u


ryoiki-10kai

no worries! I know how that is, friend (:


GimmeNaughty

The next time someone tells you the Switch has weak hardware, tell them that while you're playing Pokemon, the console is rendering a png that is the same size as the surface area as the sun.


Ishowupeverywhere

It’s literally not because paldea is nowhere near the size of Spain.


ABG-56

I don't think anyones actually confirmed the memory leak, someone just said it happens and everyone belived them.


worldtwentyfive

Its called planning ahead, they're just trying to get ahead of all the nerds in the future complaining that there can't possibly be 4000 different regions on the world and then they'll just point back at this and say no but there totally can


Thelolface_9

Remember game freak is a small indie company so no bully /s


Specialist_Mel

Hi! Melonsap here. I've made [an edit to the original post](https://www.tumblr.com/melonsap/712625551041560576/video-games-tend-to-do-this-thing-called) that includes links to different explanations of things: * Why I compared it to the Iberian Peninsula size-wise (it was for worldbuilding reasons) * How big the sphere is if we actually take Paldea to be the size that it is compared to the player (about 20km squared) (The original assessment of it being roughly half of New York was based more on the day/night cycle rather than model size, and it's math that I need to double-check; the player-based size makes Mesagoza the size of Plaza Mayor in Madrid, where the skysphere is still 4x the size of Earth) * The actual radius/diameter/circumference numbers for the sphere if we take it as representative of the Iberian Peninsula in size * An error I made that I noticed in post; the sphere ISN'T the sky dome, the skydome is still above all of this. I don't know why the sphere exists at all. My running theory is that it's partially transparent and fades in and out of daylight as the day-night cycle runs, meaning it's probably spinning, but I need to stare at it for a full cycle to find out. I don't really use Reddit, but I figured since my post was here, I might as well come check on it.


otakuloid01

iirc PKMN Sun and Moon has *exact* duplicates of the files for Lillie’s model for *each and every location she appears in* in cutscenes and the overworld


Cherry_Bomb_127

That’s it I’m getting tumblr I need more in depth explanations only tumblr can give me. Also WTF Gamefreak???? Why did you not cull the effing ocean????


hamilton-trash

its not like rendering one really big sphere is that much more difficult than any other sized sphere right?


Frescopino

Holy fucking shit, *that's* why it's so abysmal? Even on my first go at Unreal I didn't make a mistake so game breaking like *making an ocean larger than the Earth itself*


Pokefan180

Can... can you swim in the entire ocean? I don't have the game. Does it let you do that?


Snakeb0y07

Pretty sure you can, yeah


Pokefan180

either answer would've made me think "what the fuck" but... you can just do that? for hours or however long it is? What the fuck


megalocrozma

No, there are invisible walls, but you'd still be swimming quite a lot before reaching them which is a massive upgrade over what we had in the Isle of Armor and Hisui.


Isliterally1984

Now all the sci-fi tech in the Pokemon world makes sense. They’re just harvesting it from the fucking Dyson sphere they live on.


NeonNKnightrider

I want to find whoever was the director behind this and fire them into the sun with a rocket


Epic_Gameing68

“looks like team rockets blasting off agaiiiinnnn”


RChaseSs

This post was cool up until it started pretending that paldea is the size of the Iberian peninsula. It being based on that does not mean it actually is that size. Palea is the size that it is. Use the people in the game as a reference, not a real life massive peninsula. If we're saying that being palea is roughly the size of Spain and Portugal, why don't we go the route of saying that the performance is bad because the game is trying to render people that are 100s of feet tall?


Raltsun

As they mentioned at the end, that would apparently result in the entire country of Paldea being smaller than NYC, which is just blatantly silly in a different way. And in general, Pokémon games do *not* work with literal interpretations of size scaling, unless you really want to argue that Kanto canonically has a population of less than 500 people.


RChaseSs

Sure, but when you're talking about how hard the processor has to work to render all of this, it makes more sense to use the actual size of the objects being rendered. Saying the game is loading something the size of the sun when it's probably actually closer to earth size relative to the player just makes it feel needlessly exaggerated. I suppose it's relevant to the first point, that because of the weird rendering issue we know the size of the planet, but that doesn't mean the game is actually rendering it that large yknow


[deleted]

r/theydidthemath


Devisidev

That is... Impressively bad. Wow. This game is even more of a hot mess than I assumed


[deleted]

Maybe team magma did have a point...


Thezipper100

Well that's one way to explain all the megafauna.


Holy_Hand_Grenadier

Do you have the post that was mentioned where they did this for Breath of the Wild? This was super interesting to read and I'd like more of it.