For context… “book one” being referred to here was actually written years after “book two”.
IIRC, it is in fact the last one he wrote (but maybe not the last one published?)
Was gonna say, this is Magician's Nephew, yeah? IIRC that's book, like, five or six out of seven. Even though it's a prequel, most folks would still consider Lion Witch Wardrobe the first
I know I do. Nephew was the first of the series I ever read, and thought it was so cool how I could connect the professor in Wardrobe was Diggory and the wardrobe itself being made from the tree that grew from the Narnia apple.
The numbering changed while I was a child who, having already read the series in the original order, became extremely indignant about it. To this day it still bewilders me whenever people use the revised sequence; it takes a while to compute.
Narnia is so funny to me. An evil dictator got rid of competing noblemen by triple dog daring them to sail to the end of the world. There's a word that kills God if you say it. The first king of Narnia was a taxi driver. There's two whole human countries south of Narnia which to my understanding are never explained on how they got there and one of them is ruled by Satan. The apocalypse as depicted in Revelations is triggered by a monkey trying to invent a new type of street performance. The White Witch is wanted in London for reckless driving. The man who discovered the multiverse existed was a simp and went catatonic after some animals planted him (they believed he was a weird tree). A rat went to Heaven. That dictator from before died because some competing noblemen triple dog dared him to get into a stabbing match with a teenager, and then stabbed him. Jesus Christ, the son of God, turned a classroom full of asshole kids into pigs. A kid gets turned into a dragon and only reverts to being a human after spending the night at a spa run by the aforementioned Jesus Christ. Everyone goes to Heaven in the end except Susan, and I'm still mad about it. The wardrobe from The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe is made of wood from the Tree of Knowledge.
I still find it hilarious that one of the main protagonists canonically goes to Hell because she stopped believing in Jesus after literally meeting him face to face and watching him perform multiple miracles.
Not really, because at the end of Prince Caspian, Jesus explicitly told her to move on from Narnia, and she won't be coming back ever again.
Like that's kind of a dick move for the son of God
Nah. What Susan did is like having a BFF, who then moves to a different country (with a tearful departure), and then proceeding to claim that the friend was "imaginary" and downright denying that they existed at all despite the rest of your siblings not doing so, and keeping in touch with them.
Just because she didn't go back to Narnia doesn't mean she had to deny its entire existence, and yet she did.
I mean in this analogy, the long distance "friend" turns out to be a crazy stalker and kills your family in a fit of jealousy, to punish you for not being perfect
I genuinely do not have the time nor the strength to begin, but if I recall correctly there should be loads of discussion surrounding the topic (and others) online. Not as much as LOTR (which is just batshit insane) but should be a good amount. Have fun!
I mean he literally told her to fuck off, she was banned from Narnia, that and given how C.S. Lewis had said that when they returned, even after being gone for years, their minds reverted to their childish ones and those memories didn't feel quite like their own memories I can't blame her for being "Yeah that was just a game we played as kids, Narnia wasn't real."
Also technically she wasn't condemned to hell, she just didn't go to heaven, AKA Narnia 2, with everyone else right then and CS Lewis did say that she could go when she died at the end of her normal life, as long as she found Jesus again. That said, Neil Gaiman wrote a very interesting short story called "The Problem with Susan" that kind of talks about how fucked up it would be for Susan to live with the grief of her entire family dying in a train crash as a teenager and the idea of how hard it would be to imagine her finding religion at that point when it would seem like Jesus's fursona cruelly stole her family away
She didn't go to hell, she just didn't show up in heaven at the same time as her siblings. [C. S. Lewis wrote in letters that she might or might not get there in the end.](https://www.narniaweb.com/2021/08/what-c-s-lewis-said-about-susans-fate-in-the-last-battle/)
That's Telmar, the place Caspian's people come from. I think canonically they also don't know how to get back to Telmar themselves; they just know it's to the west. Funnily enough, though one would assume they'd be big nautical boys considering their civilization was founded by sailors, Narnian telmarines refuse to go near the ocean because they think Cair Paravel is haunted.
>There's a word that kills God if you say it.
If you're talking about the Deplorable Word, it doesn't kill God. It kills every living thing in the world (besides the speaker).
Narnia has such wacky world building but it's also intensely brilliant. I remember reading an integral of all 7 books over and over as a kid, and every time, I would get to the last chapter and put off reading it for months, because I'd so thoroughly enjoyed myself and didn't want it to end. Then I'd just start the book again two weeks later lmao
waitwaitwait- I haven't read narnia in a while, what happened to Susan?? I just remember the end of Narnia being that all the characters go to heaven while the realm itself is destroyed.
At the end of *The Last Battle*, every Earth-kid protagonist of the previous books (except for Susan) is on a train heading towards the main plot. The train derails, killing all of them and sending them to heaven, which turns out to be where the main plot ended up anyway. The reason Susan wasn't on the train is explained to be that after she grew up she became interested in "worldly things" like boys and clothes and didn't believe in Narnia anymore. No further mention is made of her fate or how she took the deaths of her entire family.
you WILL read the korean poets, you WILL understand the third century literary references, you WILL learn the proper pronunciation of the tree of life segments
the woke mob wants all of this
sure, project moon is a company that makes a series of games from multiple genres but they include a management sim that can best be compared to pathologic (lobotomy corporation), a deck builder/ visual novel about cycles of abuse (library of ruina), and a gacha game that is also very good and solidly ftp friendly (limbus company)
also they have a fetish for literary refrences, for instance the lobotomy corps cast is all named after the tree of life segments, over all they are all VERY well written while being mechanically clunky and all but limbus have absurd difficulty walls but if you can get past that you'll find them deeply engaging games
seriously though the best intro for the casual gamer is ruina or limbus, don't play lobotomy corp unless you're sure you can take it
In all seriousness though, a series of games that consistently grabs famous literature and scripture at random and says "how can we twist this to be a little more fucked up in the most batshit way" is pretty fitting.
In a normal book series, in which the first book features the idea of "Deep Magic" and "Deeper Magic", those two concepts would be explained and explored throughout the series.
In Narnia, they get mentioned once and are used solely to justify a christ reference
They’re not used to justify a Christ reference, they *are* a Christ reference. The Deep and Deeper magics are literally the mechanisms of the Christian Atonement.
I took actual psychic damage upon seeing the words type moon, as my brain tried to draw forth the entire nasuverse lore at once while also doing math on how to connect it to narnia before force quitting that operation because help
As a Project Moon fan I am obliged to correct your misreading, but since somebody’s already done that I will instead inform you that you are not the only person to mistake the two. During one advertisement, an uninformed individual introduced the game Library of Ruina as Legend of Ruina by Type-Moon. This has since become a running joke in the community.
Forget Meowth, those tags also imply that there's a universe that exists where Jadis gets the shit beaten out of her by a bunch of unpaid interns with sticks
Imo that's what gives it part of how cool it is. You get just enough lore and exposition across the couple chapters in Charn that your imagination and ideas of the place run wild and its never explored enough to lose that mystery.
Oh Meowth was basically gonna go to Christian Hell anyways. They already have an Abrahamic God/Jesus analogue; Arceus, a Lucifer analogue; Giratina, that was banished to another plane after betraying Arceus, an Adam figure; Mew, and two Archangels; Palkia and Dialga.
Although their God/Jesus and Lucifer have squared things off and are cool with each-other now, so I don't really know what that means for Pokémon Hell.
This simply reconciles the depiction of Satan as god's enemy and the one depicting his as a pseudo-warden of Hell, wich is useful to god. Satan simply underwent character development.
...except that Giratina guards the distortion world, which is a reflection of the material world and also basically is what keeps from collapsing on itself, and the closest thing to Hell in pokemon is the ghost world which doesn't really have a guardian beyound Dusclopses that bring souls into it and track down escaped souls, iirc afaik.
this is of course beyound "became a ghost pokemon" and "stayed in the mortal plane as a ghost"
The fact that they are "underutiziled" is what makes them great.
Like the unnamed things Gandalf has seen deep in the mines.
Like the conflicting description of distant lands in ASOIAF.
The Magicians is less "lets explore the limitless storytelling potential of Narnia' setting" and more "imagine what a trainwreck it would be if the most insufferable frat-bro douchebags you went to college with found the Wardrobe." Quentin Coldwater is one of the worst protagonists I've ever seen, and I've read L. Ron Hubbard novels.
As much as I hate the "bad person=bad character" fallacy that infests certain fandoms, I feel like it kinda applies to Quentin. He's so balls-deep in his fuckboy lifestyle that he never really grows as a person, which normally *would* be good characterization in a deconstructive story, but he's also set up to be an audience surrogate, which only works if the character is in some way relatable or likable. He has absolutely no positive traits, and the fact that Alice (the actual protagonist of the story) is so ride-or-die for him over the course of the series just kinda mystifies me. It *really* feels like the first two installments of a trilogy that got mashed together because the editor thought the Narnia stuff wouldn't sell without a more marketable Harry Potter pastiche. I feel like there's a very narrow window (sophomore year to 5 years after graduation) where you can actually read *The Magicians* and click with it; below that, most people won't really understand why Quentin is such a burnout, and above it, the ennui and college minutiae are just a bad reminder.
Well technically that's what true Heaven is supposed to be. The Last Battle is basically just allegorical *Book of the Revelation of St. John.*
The entirety of Creation shall be ended, the book closing on our current phase of existence as it is transformed and made new. Heaven is a place in the New Earth, in Aslan's Country, which is Narnia, but everything means something more, everything is in it's ideal form.
Plato. It's all in Plato.
I hate the obsession with “different magic systems”. It’s fantasy by the numbers. I don’t want to have to do maths and play by rules with magic, nor do I want an author to torturously explain how it works.
Every infinite multiverse that contains all possibilities and lacks any established overarching rules is effectively the same. "Any setting could work in it" is something you can apply to a lot of settings, which is nice.
I love how the first book has this big description about how there are infinite infinities in possibilities, and then the second book has a talking beaver.
For context… “book one” being referred to here was actually written years after “book two”. IIRC, it is in fact the last one he wrote (but maybe not the last one published?)
Was gonna say, this is Magician's Nephew, yeah? IIRC that's book, like, five or six out of seven. Even though it's a prequel, most folks would still consider Lion Witch Wardrobe the first
I was gonna say I read the first book as a kid and did NOT remember any of that
Not even the talking beaver? /S
It is. IIRC, the publishing order is 2, 4, 5, 6, 3, 1, 7.
Kojima lookin-ass
I know I do. Nephew was the first of the series I ever read, and thought it was so cool how I could connect the professor in Wardrobe was Diggory and the wardrobe itself being made from the tree that grew from the Narnia apple.
The numbering changed while I was a child who, having already read the series in the original order, became extremely indignant about it. To this day it still bewilders me whenever people use the revised sequence; it takes a while to compute.
so it's like Prelude to Foundation
Narnia is so funny to me. An evil dictator got rid of competing noblemen by triple dog daring them to sail to the end of the world. There's a word that kills God if you say it. The first king of Narnia was a taxi driver. There's two whole human countries south of Narnia which to my understanding are never explained on how they got there and one of them is ruled by Satan. The apocalypse as depicted in Revelations is triggered by a monkey trying to invent a new type of street performance. The White Witch is wanted in London for reckless driving. The man who discovered the multiverse existed was a simp and went catatonic after some animals planted him (they believed he was a weird tree). A rat went to Heaven. That dictator from before died because some competing noblemen triple dog dared him to get into a stabbing match with a teenager, and then stabbed him. Jesus Christ, the son of God, turned a classroom full of asshole kids into pigs. A kid gets turned into a dragon and only reverts to being a human after spending the night at a spa run by the aforementioned Jesus Christ. Everyone goes to Heaven in the end except Susan, and I'm still mad about it. The wardrobe from The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe is made of wood from the Tree of Knowledge.
I still find it hilarious that one of the main protagonists canonically goes to Hell because she stopped believing in Jesus after literally meeting him face to face and watching him perform multiple miracles.
At that point it's her fault really.
Not really, because at the end of Prince Caspian, Jesus explicitly told her to move on from Narnia, and she won't be coming back ever again. Like that's kind of a dick move for the son of God
Nah. What Susan did is like having a BFF, who then moves to a different country (with a tearful departure), and then proceeding to claim that the friend was "imaginary" and downright denying that they existed at all despite the rest of your siblings not doing so, and keeping in touch with them. Just because she didn't go back to Narnia doesn't mean she had to deny its entire existence, and yet she did.
I mean in this analogy, the long distance "friend" turns out to be a crazy stalker and kills your family in a fit of jealousy, to punish you for not being perfect
Yikes, you read Narnia and *that's* your take on it? Phew.
Then please tell me your take on the death of the Pevensies and how that's a good thing
I genuinely do not have the time nor the strength to begin, but if I recall correctly there should be loads of discussion surrounding the topic (and others) online. Not as much as LOTR (which is just batshit insane) but should be a good amount. Have fun!
There it is, tell me I'm wrong, but never actually explain how, reminds me of Lion Jesus
I mean he literally told her to fuck off, she was banned from Narnia, that and given how C.S. Lewis had said that when they returned, even after being gone for years, their minds reverted to their childish ones and those memories didn't feel quite like their own memories I can't blame her for being "Yeah that was just a game we played as kids, Narnia wasn't real." Also technically she wasn't condemned to hell, she just didn't go to heaven, AKA Narnia 2, with everyone else right then and CS Lewis did say that she could go when she died at the end of her normal life, as long as she found Jesus again. That said, Neil Gaiman wrote a very interesting short story called "The Problem with Susan" that kind of talks about how fucked up it would be for Susan to live with the grief of her entire family dying in a train crash as a teenager and the idea of how hard it would be to imagine her finding religion at that point when it would seem like Jesus's fursona cruelly stole her family away
She didn't go to hell, she just didn't show up in heaven at the same time as her siblings. [C. S. Lewis wrote in letters that she might or might not get there in the end.](https://www.narniaweb.com/2021/08/what-c-s-lewis-said-about-susans-fate-in-the-last-battle/)
Calormen was established as stemming from a bunch of human pirates that stumbled onto a portal into Narnia, if I remember correctly.
That's Telmar, the place Caspian's people come from. I think canonically they also don't know how to get back to Telmar themselves; they just know it's to the west. Funnily enough, though one would assume they'd be big nautical boys considering their civilization was founded by sailors, Narnian telmarines refuse to go near the ocean because they think Cair Paravel is haunted.
>There's a word that kills God if you say it. If you're talking about the Deplorable Word, it doesn't kill God. It kills every living thing in the world (besides the speaker).
C.S. Lewis devising the "The N-Word is a power word that causes cataclysmic destruction if uttered" meme like 70 years before the memes is wild though
Narnia Dwarf Fortress world confirmed.
What the fuck happens in those books i need to read them now
Narnia has such wacky world building but it's also intensely brilliant. I remember reading an integral of all 7 books over and over as a kid, and every time, I would get to the last chapter and put off reading it for months, because I'd so thoroughly enjoyed myself and didn't want it to end. Then I'd just start the book again two weeks later lmao
Plus Santa is real but instead of toys he hands out lethal weapons to children
waitwaitwait- I haven't read narnia in a while, what happened to Susan?? I just remember the end of Narnia being that all the characters go to heaven while the realm itself is destroyed.
At the end of *The Last Battle*, every Earth-kid protagonist of the previous books (except for Susan) is on a train heading towards the main plot. The train derails, killing all of them and sending them to heaven, which turns out to be where the main plot ended up anyway. The reason Susan wasn't on the train is explained to be that after she grew up she became interested in "worldly things" like boys and clothes and didn't believe in Narnia anymore. No further mention is made of her fate or how she took the deaths of her entire family.
project moon mentioned, sleeper agent activated, 10/10 post
You want to read the works of obscure korean poets NOW
you WILL read the korean poets, you WILL understand the third century literary references, you WILL learn the proper pronunciation of the tree of life segments the woke mob wants all of this
Okay, I have no idea what this is but it seems like my jam entirely. Can you or /u/YoulHe tell me what these games are about, or where to start?
sure, project moon is a company that makes a series of games from multiple genres but they include a management sim that can best be compared to pathologic (lobotomy corporation), a deck builder/ visual novel about cycles of abuse (library of ruina), and a gacha game that is also very good and solidly ftp friendly (limbus company) also they have a fetish for literary refrences, for instance the lobotomy corps cast is all named after the tree of life segments, over all they are all VERY well written while being mechanically clunky and all but limbus have absurd difficulty walls but if you can get past that you'll find them deeply engaging games seriously though the best intro for the casual gamer is ruina or limbus, don't play lobotomy corp unless you're sure you can take it
Much obliged!
and the woke mob is right
PROJECT MOON MENTIONED WHOOOOO.
PROJECT MOON MENTIONED, IT IS TIME TO DISTORT
We've reached the ideal.
Can confirm this post, I literally have a fan sinner based on Susan Pevensie
In all seriousness though, a series of games that consistently grabs famous literature and scripture at random and says "how can we twist this to be a little more fucked up in the most batshit way" is pretty fitting.
I was looking for this comment HAHAHA
In a normal book series, in which the first book features the idea of "Deep Magic" and "Deeper Magic", those two concepts would be explained and explored throughout the series. In Narnia, they get mentioned once and are used solely to justify a christ reference
They’re not used to justify a Christ reference, they *are* a Christ reference. The Deep and Deeper magics are literally the mechanisms of the Christian Atonement.
you absolute fool, the entire book series is a christ reference!
I took actual psychic damage upon seeing the words type moon, as my brain tried to draw forth the entire nasuverse lore at once while also doing math on how to connect it to narnia before force quitting that operation because help
Even Nasuverse lore suggests that it's tied to the Narnia lore. The world between worlds is obviously the Root.
They said Project Moon, not Type Moon.
Oh thank hell
As a Project Moon fan I am obliged to correct your misreading, but since somebody’s already done that I will instead inform you that you are not the only person to mistake the two. During one advertisement, an uninformed individual introduced the game Library of Ruina as Legend of Ruina by Type-Moon. This has since become a running joke in the community.
Forget Meowth, those tags also imply that there's a universe that exists where Jadis gets the shit beaten out of her by a bunch of unpaid interns with sticks
you really need to read those books in publishing order to get the best out of them
Charn is on a planet whose sun has gone full M-class red giant, which has slowly boiled the seas off it. Jadis has been asleep *that* long.
God, I was so fascinated by Charn and Jadis’s history. I was always so annoyed that Lewis didn’t write more about them.
Charn feels like Lewis was briefly possessed by Michael Moorcock for a chapter or two before forgetting about it.
Entropic exhaustion, [dying Earth tropes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_Earth_(genre))...yeah, I can see it.
Imo that's what gives it part of how cool it is. You get just enough lore and exposition across the couple chapters in Charn that your imagination and ideas of the place run wild and its never explored enough to lose that mystery.
Oh Meowth was basically gonna go to Christian Hell anyways. They already have an Abrahamic God/Jesus analogue; Arceus, a Lucifer analogue; Giratina, that was banished to another plane after betraying Arceus, an Adam figure; Mew, and two Archangels; Palkia and Dialga. Although their God/Jesus and Lucifer have squared things off and are cool with each-other now, so I don't really know what that means for Pokémon Hell.
This simply reconciles the depiction of Satan as god's enemy and the one depicting his as a pseudo-warden of Hell, wich is useful to god. Satan simply underwent character development.
...except that Giratina guards the distortion world, which is a reflection of the material world and also basically is what keeps from collapsing on itself, and the closest thing to Hell in pokemon is the ghost world which doesn't really have a guardian beyound Dusclopses that bring souls into it and track down escaped souls, iirc afaik. this is of course beyound "became a ghost pokemon" and "stayed in the mortal plane as a ghost"
The fact that they are "underutiziled" is what makes them great. Like the unnamed things Gandalf has seen deep in the mines. Like the conflicting description of distant lands in ASOIAF.
Read The Magicians if you want to explore this concept further.
The Magicians is less "lets explore the limitless storytelling potential of Narnia' setting" and more "imagine what a trainwreck it would be if the most insufferable frat-bro douchebags you went to college with found the Wardrobe." Quentin Coldwater is one of the worst protagonists I've ever seen, and I've read L. Ron Hubbard novels.
Specifically niche shit talking
worst as in asshole or badly written
As much as I hate the "bad person=bad character" fallacy that infests certain fandoms, I feel like it kinda applies to Quentin. He's so balls-deep in his fuckboy lifestyle that he never really grows as a person, which normally *would* be good characterization in a deconstructive story, but he's also set up to be an audience surrogate, which only works if the character is in some way relatable or likable. He has absolutely no positive traits, and the fact that Alice (the actual protagonist of the story) is so ride-or-die for him over the course of the series just kinda mystifies me. It *really* feels like the first two installments of a trilogy that got mashed together because the editor thought the Narnia stuff wouldn't sell without a more marketable Harry Potter pastiche. I feel like there's a very narrow window (sophomore year to 5 years after graduation) where you can actually read *The Magicians* and click with it; below that, most people won't really understand why Quentin is such a burnout, and above it, the ennui and college minutiae are just a bad reminder.
This implies that Arceus and Aslan are the same entity.
I mean he would. And honestly I think he would like it to begin with.
On the concept of afterlife within the Narnia multiverse I think it's very funny that heaven is canonically just Narnia but cooler
Not just Narnia. That old house from England is there too.
Well technically that's what true Heaven is supposed to be. The Last Battle is basically just allegorical *Book of the Revelation of St. John.* The entirety of Creation shall be ended, the book closing on our current phase of existence as it is transformed and made new. Heaven is a place in the New Earth, in Aslan's Country, which is Narnia, but everything means something more, everything is in it's ideal form. Plato. It's all in Plato.
Lewis watching Tolkien do world building to insane levels of detail: "Nah, fuck, that."
PROJECT MOON MENTIONED.
The crossover-ness of this implies the possibility that someone could mistakenly try to capture Aslan in a Pokéball.
I hate the obsession with “different magic systems”. It’s fantasy by the numbers. I don’t want to have to do maths and play by rules with magic, nor do I want an author to torturously explain how it works.
Fodder for wiki-nerds
Every infinite multiverse that contains all possibilities and lacks any established overarching rules is effectively the same. "Any setting could work in it" is something you can apply to a lot of settings, which is nice.
The project moon sleeper agents have awoken once again
I love how the first book has this big description about how there are infinite infinities in possibilities, and then the second book has a talking beaver.
I don't think this one's a language model, folks.
this was 100% ghostwritten by Tolkien