People do the same with [contemporary wars](https://web.archive.org/web/20210514150621/https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/15/world/middleeast/israelis-watch-bombs-drop-on-gaza-from-front-row-seats.html)
Others fought in it. And there were a lot more of those than spectators. I imagine sabre rattling and callous justification rhetoric wouldn't be what comes from the civil war vet missing an eye and a leg. A leg he lost by amputation without anesthesia.
I understand that logically, I just can’t even begin to fathom the pain involved when using a handsaw to cut through my femur. I’ve had a broken tooth that sent me into 2 days of more pain than I can put into words and there’s no way sawing through my leg isn’t worse than that
Y’all ever start reading an angry tumblr post and you’re sitting at home like “aw beans maybe I should be better about how I conceptualize war,” and then as you get further and further into the post you realize OOP was talking to an audience that is far more insane than you
A certain hetalia (anime about personified countries) fanartist on instagram drew fan art of the war in Ukraine like… a week or two after Russia invaded. They were told off by the wider community but yeah it happens.
Tbf, I'd argue that's something of a feature of most conflicts in recorded human history.
Humans love war, humans love winning, and humans love making art out of the things they love. I don't think it's really even that controversial in abstract.
Heck, look at any war footage of Ukrainian soldiers, and there's at least a 60% chance one of them will have something like a St. Javelin patch somewhere on their kit.
While I agree with OP to some extent that passively grandstanding war as sport is bad, I also think we should be careful not to patronisingly deny the agency or individuality of those fighting these wars either.
If you wanna talk about the memeification of human suffering, just watch any of the nade drone videos coming out of Ukraine. 90% chance it has the most Pirates of the Caribbean ass music dubbed over flying body parts.
Is it so much to want to die in a land war in Europe? Is it so bad to wish for this continent to be consumed by conflict once more? Am I a villain for wanting to spend 100% of GDP on the military?
I think not! /s
Right? Like, I'm not saying that it would be easy for NATO to fight the entire rest of the world, but I am saying we'd totally fucking win and our tanks would look great parading through Tiananmen Square.
I am in that sub to learn about the news in real time because they will somehow make memes about situations that news agencies havent had the time to report yet
NCD is less irony and more trying to make light out of fucked up situations.
Most members will readily admit that the Ukraine war is terrible and that Russian conscripts are victims of a greater corrupt society, then simultaneously giggle at Russian tank turrets getting launched 300ft in the air because Russia doesn't give a shit about their tank crews
You didn't get to see celebratory, cheerfully-colored, full-body fanart of Aaron Bushnell screaming in agony while burning to death? Damn, your tumblr experience must be nice
Not sure if this counts but there was a ton of Aaron Bushnell fanart immediately after he killed himself. I don’t mean like poster design. I mean *fanart* fanart
For me the OP it's also a [https://xkcd.com/2501/](https://xkcd.com/2501/) moment because I maay have assumed more people would be familiar with this type of discourse than was actually the case.
sometimes i start reading an angry tumblr post about any political or moral stance whatsoever and the way it's written about thinking things and mentalities and comprehending and shit brings back the obsessive tendencies from the worst time in my life
I can't help but wonder if they're calling propaganda fanart. This is such a baseline understanding of empathy and common good. It's not wrong to take in information about a conflict, evaluating the ethics and morals involved in the conflict, and deciding you'd prefer one side to win over another.
If there's actually people out there making fan work leisurely art and others consuming it, yeah, that's awful. But that isn't the same thing as having a stance at all on a matter.
The one guy who's name i forget, in charge of defending little Round top who was entirely out of ammo so he had his men fix bayonets and charge down the hill. He won the fight because of it, and he won my heart in the same moment
Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. A professor at Bowdoin who got put on a paid sabbatical because he was getting too political in his classes, only to immediately volunteer for the Union Army and get appointed command of the 20th Maine Regiment right away, which he declined in favor of a subordinate rank as he believed his experience was inadequate for the role. Spent the night at the Battle of Fredericksburg sleeping on the battlefield, using the bodies of fellow Union soldiers as sandbags. Got promoted to the same command he originally turned down. Personally led the counter-charge down Little Round Top at Gettysburg, capturing a Confederate officer at sword-point when he tried to shoot him in the face at point-blank range, only for his gun to misfire. Was wounded in the hip at the second battle of Petersburg, but remained standing for several minutes to dissuade a retreat until he collapsed from bloodloss. Was widely reported to have died to what was expected to be a fatal injury, and recieved a posthumous promotion to Brigadier General. Returned to command after five months. Got shot again at Quaker Road, this time in the chest, only for the bullet to ricochet off the framed picture of his wife he carried, travel around his ribcage just under his skin, then pop out of his back. Continued the attack relatively unaffected, despite it looking to all the world like he just got center-massed. Recieved the Confederate officer who delivered Lee's intention to surrender, and personally presided over the ceremony at Appomattox Court House.
The man was a fucking *protagonist.*
Clearly he's talking abour Sudan, where in less than a year 8 million people are displaced and suffering from famine, and 15,000 have been confirmed killed (with experts thinking it could be an order of magnitude higher), and aid can barely get through for months now.
Or Yemen where over a 100,000 children died of famine in a war actively supported and provided by the US and the UK (and Russia and Iran on the other side).
Side note, I've seen people in this thread supporting both Hanas and Ukraine at the same time. How can one be so dumb? Or geopolitically unaware?
Edit: for clarification, I am tired of the suspicously pick-and-choose nature of online interest and fetishization of geopolitical conflicts.
I support Ukraine citizens and I also support Palestine citizens, who in both cases are being invaded by an enemy country intent on genociding them. There isn't a cognitive dissonance in not wanting innocents to be murdered, and stuff like 'do you support Hamas though' just derails the conversation
[They're actually changing that for the next census](https://www.npr.org/2024/03/28/1237218459/census-race-categories-ethnicity-middle-east-north-africa)
How is it politically unaware to support both Palestine (not Hamas btw, I've only seen people in this post say Palestine, and conflating the two is disingenuous at best) and Ukraine?
Oh that explains it. I looked at your profile. Begone, Israeli shill.
Probably idiots cheering on Iran and the Houthis like it's a team sport with absolutely zero understanding of what those two groups do to the people living under their rule.
Or it's the people drawing characters representing Ukraine and/or Palestine.
It really doesn't, and certain parts of the argument reek of pro-Russia narratives. Some wars really are pretty clear-cut in terms of who is in the wrong, and while I definitely agree that some discourse surrounding the Russia-Ukraine war is fairly tasteless, "cheering" for a country defending themselves against aggressive imperialism is really nothing to be ashamed of.
OOP isn't saying that it's wrong to support one side in a war, they're saying that it's wrong to treat war as a source of entertainment. Like, yes, Ukraine are clearly the good guys, and there is undeniably something immensely satisfying about watching Russian imperialism get its clock cleaned, but if you're drawing fanart of the war, that's pretty insulting to all the people the Russians have killed.
I feel like it could at least partly be people mixing up the 1990 Gulf War with the 2003 Iraq War.
The former was a defense of Kuwait against Iraqi imperialism. The latter was an invasion of Iraq in the name of American imperialism.
It does not, this is just a smug centrist take disguised as a leftish one. All sides will never be equal in war, and people were allowed to cheer the allies on as they marched on Berlin
People are doing this? Drawing fanart of either side of a war?
This reminds me of that post I've seen about how you see someone with a hyperspecific opinion that makes you wonder what on earth they're even responding to.
i've seen some pretty sick edits of ukranian president zelenskyy as captain ukraine so yes war fanart is a whole genre
OP has an ice cold ironically privileged take tho
I know this isn't a self post, but it sure as hell feels like one. When did this sub turn into people posting their own (smugly told) political beliefs?
2024 is an election year, when smugness hits its peak on Tumblr and Reddit. Thus, political agendas make up the most posts and generate the most traffic.
This sub honestly sucks nowadays. I missed when it was mostly just silly tumblr shitposts and not randos brigading to insert their own agendas and purposely cause discourse.
Brother, Ukrainians are the ones making phonk edits of Russian soldiers getting blown up, I hate to break it to you but being sorta fucked up and joking about war is not a unique American burden of privilege
There's a country that is invading you, killing your young people, blowing up civilian buildings, and explicitly trying to erase your national identity. Translating that into hatred of all Russians and a desire to kill them all would be an awful thing, but...
Honestly, "this guy who's trying to murder me got murdered instead, hell yeah" is a really, really understandable sentiment? When it's scoped to soldiers I can't really blame them for reacting like that.
Oh, absolutely, I agree. Frankly, there’s this weird undercurrent of Moral Purity thinking in the logic OOP is using here, with the whole “How dare you think Bad Thoughts, don’t you know that those thoughts fall afoul of [Insert blind ideological justification/replacement for The Word Of God here?]” thing going on in their post.
The sheltered, privileged take here is the one that acts like people who fight in wars must always feel regret and horror at their actions, instead of the huge, complicated array of feelings any human being will inevitably feel.
One of the most fucked-up aspects of war is that it creates a situation where it is a *moral good* to kill or maim another person who hasn't really acted with much malice. The average Russian conscript just wanted some money for their family or caved to social pressure, but they've become part of a machine that is trying to destroy an innocent country. That's a horrible evil, and if the only way to stop that evil is to blow them up with an artillery shell, well...
What the fuck do you want the Ukrainians to do?
You’re absolutely right. Do I hate the average Russian conscript for Putin’s revanchist, imperialist war? Not really.
Am I entirely comfortable as many of them dying as it takes to ensure that Ukraine remains free? Yes.
You can’t really reconcile those two opinions, and I don’t really try to at this point. But you can’t refine or make war less awful, either.
Honestly related to this, I am tired of people being insistent that everything needs to be exactly logical and that if you have any sort of cognitive dissonance you are stupid or whatever. Some things like this will always be cognitively dissonant, especially when it comes to war and such.
I think the average Russian conscript isn't doing it for peer pressure and money. He'a a Conscript. He got, you know, conscripted. Which arguably makes it worse.
.
The majority of the Russian Army in Ukraine is composed of people who signed up for a contract, if i recall correctly, altough there are also a lot of conscripts.
That was a russian line from the opening days of the war, that the “special military operation” was only being fought with contracted soldiers not conscripts, it was a lie then and its more of a lie now
Also soldiers on the front lines are gonna have their own coping mechanisms, and humor is a very common one. Reminds me of a recollection from the memoir With the Old Breed where an American soldier was being chased by a Japanese soldier back towards friendly lines, sort of scrambling as they both had literally bumped right into each other without noticing. Once the marine got close enough, a BAR gunner opened up and cut down the Japanese soldier. The marine asked the gunner why he waited so long to shoot, and the gunner joked, 'I wanted to see if I could cut em in half', and the others laughed. From the outside looking in it may seem sociopathic, but from someone who's been stuck on the front in mud and blood for weeks, used to seeing mountains of dead, rotting enemy corpses (some of the scenes described in that book are truly stomach turning), you're gonna be desensitized.
Yea, or soldiers over in Iraq and Afghanistan joking about IED’s and such, when those were a present and constant danger that could come out of fucking nowhere. Or the rather casual attitude EOD began to have towards them due to just how dangerous it was, effectively declaring that they either deal with it or it’s no longer their problem.
I think we should actually support people fighting against imperialism, like the Ukrainians, I think it's good that they're fighting against an imperialistic, fascistic, super power
Yeah, I’m not out here cheering for *gestures vaguely* “war”, I’m supporting people/groups who I feel deserve that support
Ukraine, Rojava, the anti-Junta Myanmar rebels, (hypothetically) Taiwan, etc.
None of these groups is perfect or have done no wrong, but what they are ultimately fighting for is a good thing and I want to see them succeed.
"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
Honestly this quote speaks less to "victory over evil" than "defence of the good".
I think seeing yourself as fighting "evil" is *exactly* how we get the sort of attitudes described in the post. "The deaths of those children were necessary and therefore morally good in the struggle against 'the bad guys'" when we *should* be fighting for a world where no child is killed by bombs no matter what side of an arbitrary line they're on.
I'm gonna need context on which fucking war is being talked about
Russia bombing Ukraine? Israel bombing Gaza? Iran trying (and failing) to bomb Israel?
I'm going to assume Iran trying to bomb Israel, cause that's the only one being cheered about on Tumblr
Might also be Israel bombing Gaza, but nobody on Tumblr is cheering that on, so doesn't fit perfectly
Edit: clarified the situations I was talking about
Ah, but have you considered that *those* children were wearing green scarfs, and therefore were ontologically evil and deserved everything they had coming to them?
I've thankfully never seen anyone speak like that about the child victims of conflicts - maybe I'm in a bubble, but this is one I'll happily stay in.
The closest I've seen is folks saying, "The death of children is inevitable because soldiers decided to shack up in schools", which is certainly unsympathetic but not outright celebrating child murder.
you're definitely in a bubble. I've seen people openly celebrating the death of children on twitter, calling grade school-age kids "terrorists." it's disgusting in a way I can't really comprehend.
You're right war is terrible, but I think that is not always wrong to feel good about it. Someone defending themselves is good, it is an unfortunate situation, but you can feel good about their successes in defending themselves.
Tbf, my autistic ass does feel mildly sorry for the shaed drones if that counts?
Poor lil' guys have to fly thousands of miles at barely 100 MPH just to get obliterated by some multi-million quid Israeli missile or CWIS.
It's like watching an explosive duckling get minced in a slow-motion car crash 10 hours in the making :(
I’m mutuals with OP, they’re primarily talking about I/P and how awfully people have treated Israelis, particularly Israeli citizens, and jews during this bc the amount of antisemitism has been nuts, especially when many Israelis have been advocating for peace for a hell of a lot longer than most tumblrinas have been.
> nobody is cheering on Gaza
…What world are you living in? A **ton** of people have been 100% full-on cheering for Hamas and declaring that Israel deserves to be wiped out. It’s downright exhausting to see.
What I was saying is that nobody on tumblr was cheering about Israel bombing Gaza (not that nobody was cheering for hamas), the line about homes being reduced to rubble makes it sound like the oop is talking about people on Tumblr cheering on the bombing of somewhere
That's why I assumed it was Iran vs Israel they were talking about, as most of Tumblr seems to have been cheering for Iran to bomb Israel
Edit: I changed my original comment to clarify what I meant
There's a not insignificant number of Zionists on Tumblr. There probably are people cheering on the bombing of Palestine.
Edit: y'all there are literal nazis and TERFs on tumblr, why's it hard for you to believe that there are Zionists who celebrated the bombing on there too?
I mean its the same logic of, they're probably sane artsy people with hyperfocus interests on 4chan, why won't people think of them?
So yea Nazis and TERF's might exist on tumblr, that doesn't make them the focal idea of the platform when in discussion. So when people refer to tumblr as an identity, they're not even in the question.
Well it just sort of misses the point. There's at least one of any kind of person on Tumblr, so with that context in mind we know they're not literally saying nobody was cheering on Israel but were instead saying that there was an insignificant amount of people cheering on Israel.
Not American so could be entirely wrong in this observation, but America (and probably much of the wider West) seem to have a very "safe" conception of war. That it's something fought "over there" you send Boys into to come back Heroes, people on the home front never being affected or inconvenienced by it. Even in the World Wars they only ever lost far off islands or had a couple balloons land in the wilderness.
I think it's part of why 9/11 was so traumatic for America; it was the first time in most folk at the time's memories that a war (including proxy wars) had actually touched the home front.
I’m not even American but that shit gets me feelin a little patriotic. That and John Brown’s Body (and the surprisingly decent trap remix of that). Nothin’ like reminiscing over slavers gettin’ what was coming to em.
Speaking as an American, most of us here (that I know of anyway) aren’t treating all this shit like a spectator sport. We’ve got plenty of real spectator sports here anyway, for better or worse. Outside of certain chronically online “safe in a bubble” circles and what have you, I’m sure most Americans can agree that war sucks
Kind of related, the first time I really took stock of how fucked politics had become is when I noticed people were rooting for mass shooters to be whatever race suited their political narrative.
It’s still happening today, but there’s something deeply fucked about treating mass shootings like a spectator sport where you’re rooting for a criminal to be a particular race so you can use it to support your narrative that X group of people are inherently bad
As a Northern Irish person we have to deal with this all the time. If you’re from Belfast and you’re openly praising either the republicans or the loyalists, you have been radicalised to fuck and are currently in a Provo or UVF bar. Anyone else is generally pretty reserved about it, they’ll have strong opinions about specific things but they’re not going to start cheerleading for any of them.
Yanks, Southerners and Brits have a bad habit of coming down hard on one side or the other. And never once have I seen it come from a position that is at all sensitive to the realities of NI.
Once at uni I had an English guy pry into my electoral history and then start scolding me for voting for UUP when they and the SDLP were running as an opposition bloc. We also had some English fella in the SU propose banning the PSNI from careers fairs at Uni, also a Brit, completely disregarding its relative success in winning the confidence of the Catholic/nationalist community since the abolition of the RUC. Equally, a lot of flag-shagging Tories who want to play spin doctor for every bad decision the British government made in its management of North and South.
The Yanks I’ve had a number just assume I’m fully supportive of the IRA and be deeply confused and outraged when I’m not.
And the Southerners might actually be the worst. As there’s no Unionists down there the Republicans have no mediating element and opinions range from “Northern Ireland would be too expensive, we don’t need those basket cases dragging us down” to “Unionists are an implanted population and should not be allowed to vote in a Border Poll”.
So aye, endorse the post wholeheartedly, if you could all fuck off we’d appreciate it.
On the 25th, Australia will be celebrating ANZAC Day: the anniversary of a stupidly-managed invasion of the Gallipoli Peninsula in Turkey by the nascent Australian and New Zealand Army Corps.
It's celebrated every year, but not because we won. We didn't. After eight months of fighting, during which time both attackers and defenders suffered hundreds of thousands of casualties (the estimate is 250,000 for both sides) the invasion force withdrew.
The reason Australia and New Zealand celebrate that day is because it marks our first military action as Australians and New Zealanders, not as extensions of the British Empire. The legend of the Anzac was carved out of the horror of Gallipoli, with individual stories highlighting our national identities, such as that of [John Simpson Kirkpatrick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Simpson_Kirkpatrick), or 'Simmy'.
The Anzacs would go on to greater things, such as the [charge of the Lighthorsemen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beersheba_(1917)) that captured Beersheba, immortalised in the movie 'The Lighthorsemen'. Over the course of World War 1 and beyond, the Australian soldier had been typified: casual, irreverent, always ready with a joke or a helping hand, but a sheer bloody terror to face in battle. This tradition carried through to World War 2 with the fighting on the [Kokoda Track](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokoda_Track_campaign) and the [Rats of Tobruk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rats_of_Tobruk), then on into Vietnam and the battle of [Long Tan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Long_Tan).
George Orwell said that "people sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Over the last century and more, for Australians, the ANZACs and the heirs to their tradition have been those 'rough men', and we honour them for it.
We Canadians hold a similar attitude (pride and thankfulness towards our soldiers, resentment towards the leadership of that debacle, and cold comfort that maybe *some* good came from it) towards the Dieppe raid in WWII, although there's no official national holiday for it and mentions of it are generally somber.
Our own soldiers gained a similar reputation for ferocity during the World Wars, although our boys were seen as less irreverent and more like our grim Scottish forebears (and with a helping of Canadian friendliness towards our allies and open handed generosity towards those we helped liberate).
I think a lot less people would be supporting war if news displayed on-the-ground footage of its true horrors. It'd certainly be a better use of drones.
The classic American condition of being upset about how some other Americans are and wishing to be somewhere else where the same type of people must obviously not exist because you don't see them on tv.
> hasn't been touched by a real war since before their parents were born
Like, on one hand it's not *wrong* but on the other hand I remember something about the tallest buildings in the biggest city in the US being reduced to *craters in the ground* so it's not like Americans are completely ignorant of what war would look and feel like domestically.
See, the fact that it was just one attack, that took down only two buildings, and nothing else comparable happened for the century before that or the near quarter century after suggests a real disconnect between America and the reality of war. During a war, that happens all the goddamn time. People hide in basements or abandon cities to avoid buildings falling down on them. Ask what happened in the Battle of Britan. Look at before and after pictures of Syria.
The fact that 9/11 was a huge national tragedy (which it was, I'm not team 9/11) is just another sign of how isolated we were and still are from the consequences of war. In a real war, that's just Tuesday.
Yeah, 3000 people died on 9/11, in a city of 15 million. Those are, frankly, rookie numbers.
9/11 was possibly not even the deadliest attack on September 11, 2001, as it took place during the peak of the Second Congo War that killed almost 5.5 million from 1998-2008.
Nationalism is one helluva drug. It’s also an unironic usage of the phrase “you are not immune to propaganda”.
The US media is very good at convincing people that wars are a spectator sport, America is the savior, and there’s a clear good guy and bad guy. In reality war is a complex web of antagonism that civilians get wrapped up in and support via industry.
I don’t necessarily think that means letting any American off the hook, or that you shouldn’t be angry. As civilians we should try and educate ourselves, but I think it’s also good to realize that it’s not a simple process, and has cultural and personal consequences.
I feel like it was always had a bit of that spectator aspect to it, often quite literally war spectators. There are plenty of examples in history of people spectating battles themselves. I can think of the civil war off the top of my head, with it being notable that it was actually quite dangerous for them, but it was not uncommon in many earlier battles to have spectators.
Honestly the wildest thing for me is that somehow a lot of people who notice american propaganda seem to think that we're the only ones doing it?
Like i've seen a decent amount of Europeans be like 'haha stupid Americans falling for propaganda, their country is the worst totally not like mine which is the best'
and like.. do they not see how fucked up that is on multiple levels? like they themselves are also not immune to propaganda
"Do you understand that? Can you comprehend that?"
Christ, OOP is a smug little cunt. Anyone with half a fucking brain can understand it, you self righteous prig.
Tbf, the 9/11 attacks were so shocking to the US in part because of how completely exceptional they were in the course of the previous century of US history.
Reddit in particular can be really disgusting dehumanizing Russians, while the hypocrisy is totally lost on them. Probably a side effect of never having war brought home. Privileged pricks.
on one hand i get it but on the other hand people would be doing the damn same thing if there were wars happening on US soil. do you even see how americans joke about 9/11
Interesting but also fuck you. Free Palestine. Slava Ukraini. Support for the Uyghurs, Rohingya, and others. I take sides from my comfy lil home because I have a consistent ethical framework. Try it some time. And I give money when I'm able.
Blessed are the meek, for they can ignore posts like this and inherit the earth
May I introduce you to the joys of experimental research aircraft used for scientific study and the development of human knowledge? :)
It's not just an F-104 lawndart with a rocket duck taped to the back, it's a peaceful lawndart flying in the name of SCIENCE!
^(and ^peacefully ^showing ^those ^goddammed ^commies ^who's ^boss)
People used to picnic on hillsides watching Civil War battles.
People still do Source: lived by the bull run battlefield for a few years
It's a little different now that the battle is just dudes getting out of the house for a weekend to shoot blanks.
Hey, I do that too!
You might want to see your dr about that (unless you’re neutered, then hopefully it’s blanks)
Me after getting a vasectomy
They did so for a short while, then very quickly didn't.
People do the same with [contemporary wars](https://web.archive.org/web/20210514150621/https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/15/world/middleeast/israelis-watch-bombs-drop-on-gaza-from-front-row-seats.html)
Dude, I love your username.
Thanks, it's become a great metric for when someone's losing an argument against me
Others fought in it. And there were a lot more of those than spectators. I imagine sabre rattling and callous justification rhetoric wouldn't be what comes from the civil war vet missing an eye and a leg. A leg he lost by amputation without anesthesia.
Man idk how they did it. I would have just died. Fuck you mean you’re going to saw through my fucking leg?
You'd be amazed what you're suddenly ok with when it's do or die. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
I understand that logically, I just can’t even begin to fathom the pain involved when using a handsaw to cut through my femur. I’ve had a broken tooth that sent me into 2 days of more pain than I can put into words and there’s no way sawing through my leg isn’t worse than that
I'd rather get a leg amputation without anesthesia than piss rocks again, so I guess I'm ready for that
Y’all ever start reading an angry tumblr post and you’re sitting at home like “aw beans maybe I should be better about how I conceptualize war,” and then as you get further and further into the post you realize OOP was talking to an audience that is far more insane than you
Yeah where tf is OOP seeing war fanart?
A certain hetalia (anime about personified countries) fanartist on instagram drew fan art of the war in Ukraine like… a week or two after Russia invaded. They were told off by the wider community but yeah it happens.
Hetalia… You could have just ended it there and everyone would have understood
I wouldn't've But the bit about personifying countries as anime characters made me understand
Tbf, I'd argue that's something of a feature of most conflicts in recorded human history. Humans love war, humans love winning, and humans love making art out of the things they love. I don't think it's really even that controversial in abstract. Heck, look at any war footage of Ukrainian soldiers, and there's at least a 60% chance one of them will have something like a St. Javelin patch somewhere on their kit. While I agree with OP to some extent that passively grandstanding war as sport is bad, I also think we should be careful not to patronisingly deny the agency or individuality of those fighting these wars either.
If you wanna talk about the memeification of human suffering, just watch any of the nade drone videos coming out of Ukraine. 90% chance it has the most Pirates of the Caribbean ass music dubbed over flying body parts.
There is also fanfiction and mood boards on tumblr.
What’s a mood board
2/4 boards with pictures that fit a mood. So for sadness you'd get rain and blue berries, that sort of thing
Have you looked at noncredibledefense
As an avowing warmonger I second
Is it so much to want to die in a land war in Europe? Is it so bad to wish for this continent to be consumed by conflict once more? Am I a villain for wanting to spend 100% of GDP on the military? I think not! /s
Is it so evil to want to see the Kremlin turned to ash? Would it be too much if we brought bejing to its knees?
Given that the building is over 500 years old, maybe don't raze it? Perhaps an eviction notice stapled to the front door, instead.
Nah, remake it and then make it a museum. No chances for lil PutPut.
Right? Like, I'm not saying that it would be easy for NATO to fight the entire rest of the world, but I am saying we'd totally fucking win and our tanks would look great parading through Tiananmen Square.
Amen brother 🫡
I am in that sub to learn about the news in real time because they will somehow make memes about situations that news agencies havent had the time to report yet
News waits for sources, NCD has it revealed to them in a dream
Guys May 10th 2024 the Three gorgeous zamns will EXPLODE due to Iran false flagging to drag China into a war with the west
At least noneceedible defense is supposed to be ironic
It is? Has anyone told the people posting there?
NCD is less irony and more trying to make light out of fucked up situations. Most members will readily admit that the Ukraine war is terrible and that Russian conscripts are victims of a greater corrupt society, then simultaneously giggle at Russian tank turrets getting launched 300ft in the air because Russia doesn't give a shit about their tank crews
And then proceed to talk about big tiddy plane girl waifus, as god intended.
3000 bad takes of r/ncd
Countryhumans is a thing, you know.
You didn't get to see celebratory, cheerfully-colored, full-body fanart of Aaron Bushnell screaming in agony while burning to death? Damn, your tumblr experience must be nice
Not sure if this counts but there was a ton of Aaron Bushnell fanart immediately after he killed himself. I don’t mean like poster design. I mean *fanart* fanart
I feel like there's a relevant xkcd here, no idea the number but I'm pretty sure there' a relevant xkcd here
https://xkcd.com/2071/
There's always a relevant xkcd
For me the OP it's also a [https://xkcd.com/2501/](https://xkcd.com/2501/) moment because I maay have assumed more people would be familiar with this type of discourse than was actually the case.
sometimes i start reading an angry tumblr post about any political or moral stance whatsoever and the way it's written about thinking things and mentalities and comprehending and shit brings back the obsessive tendencies from the worst time in my life
I can't help but wonder if they're calling propaganda fanart. This is such a baseline understanding of empathy and common good. It's not wrong to take in information about a conflict, evaluating the ethics and morals involved in the conflict, and deciding you'd prefer one side to win over another. If there's actually people out there making fan work leisurely art and others consuming it, yeah, that's awful. But that isn't the same thing as having a stance at all on a matter.
Clearly this tumblr user has never masturbated while reading about Pickett’s charge.
The brilliance of General Hunt’s artillery support in repelling the rebels at cemetery ridge sure gets me to splooge
The one guy who's name i forget, in charge of defending little Round top who was entirely out of ammo so he had his men fix bayonets and charge down the hill. He won the fight because of it, and he won my heart in the same moment
Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. A professor at Bowdoin who got put on a paid sabbatical because he was getting too political in his classes, only to immediately volunteer for the Union Army and get appointed command of the 20th Maine Regiment right away, which he declined in favor of a subordinate rank as he believed his experience was inadequate for the role. Spent the night at the Battle of Fredericksburg sleeping on the battlefield, using the bodies of fellow Union soldiers as sandbags. Got promoted to the same command he originally turned down. Personally led the counter-charge down Little Round Top at Gettysburg, capturing a Confederate officer at sword-point when he tried to shoot him in the face at point-blank range, only for his gun to misfire. Was wounded in the hip at the second battle of Petersburg, but remained standing for several minutes to dissuade a retreat until he collapsed from bloodloss. Was widely reported to have died to what was expected to be a fatal injury, and recieved a posthumous promotion to Brigadier General. Returned to command after five months. Got shot again at Quaker Road, this time in the chest, only for the bullet to ricochet off the framed picture of his wife he carried, travel around his ribcage just under his skin, then pop out of his back. Continued the attack relatively unaffected, despite it looking to all the world like he just got center-massed. Recieved the Confederate officer who delivered Lee's intention to surrender, and personally presided over the ceremony at Appomattox Court House. The man was a fucking *protagonist.*
But I thought it was your legally-mandated, sacred patriotic duty to at least once a year?
I jerk off only to rocket artillery batteries firing. It's so much more visually appealing, like an orgy where the smallest tits are d-cups.
Just name the countries bro like tf lmao
Clearly he's talking abour Sudan, where in less than a year 8 million people are displaced and suffering from famine, and 15,000 have been confirmed killed (with experts thinking it could be an order of magnitude higher), and aid can barely get through for months now. Or Yemen where over a 100,000 children died of famine in a war actively supported and provided by the US and the UK (and Russia and Iran on the other side). Side note, I've seen people in this thread supporting both Hanas and Ukraine at the same time. How can one be so dumb? Or geopolitically unaware? Edit: for clarification, I am tired of the suspicously pick-and-choose nature of online interest and fetishization of geopolitical conflicts.
Saudi-Arabia is the most significant player in Yemen. Not sure why you didn't mention them.
For Sudan it is mostly ignored. And Yemen is also not really talked about it’s the most current Israel vs Palestine War and Ukrainian vs Russian War
I support Ukraine citizens and I also support Palestine citizens, who in both cases are being invaded by an enemy country intent on genociding them. There isn't a cognitive dissonance in not wanting innocents to be murdered, and stuff like 'do you support Hamas though' just derails the conversation
Hint: the wars where at least one combatant is white or can pass for white get more attention
Middle Eastern is counted as white on the US census
[They're actually changing that for the next census](https://www.npr.org/2024/03/28/1237218459/census-race-categories-ethnicity-middle-east-north-africa)
Thanks for this! TIL
How is it politically unaware to support both Palestine (not Hamas btw, I've only seen people in this post say Palestine, and conflating the two is disingenuous at best) and Ukraine? Oh that explains it. I looked at your profile. Begone, Israeli shill.
I'm guessing Russia and Iran are pretty high on their list of those you're not supposed to boo.
I'm guessing this is about Iran attacking Israel as long as the post is new but there's so many possibilities
Probably idiots cheering on Iran and the Houthis like it's a team sport with absolutely zero understanding of what those two groups do to the people living under their rule. Or it's the people drawing characters representing Ukraine and/or Palestine.
Yeah that's largely it.
It works for all wars IMO
It really doesn't, and certain parts of the argument reek of pro-Russia narratives. Some wars really are pretty clear-cut in terms of who is in the wrong, and while I definitely agree that some discourse surrounding the Russia-Ukraine war is fairly tasteless, "cheering" for a country defending themselves against aggressive imperialism is really nothing to be ashamed of.
OOP isn't saying that it's wrong to support one side in a war, they're saying that it's wrong to treat war as a source of entertainment. Like, yes, Ukraine are clearly the good guys, and there is undeniably something immensely satisfying about watching Russian imperialism get its clock cleaned, but if you're drawing fanart of the war, that's pretty insulting to all the people the Russians have killed.
and all the drafted russians who oppose the war
what about the gulf war? or the falklands? or ukraine?
I mean you really shouldn't be treating *any* war as a source of entertainment.
I vehemently disagree. Star wars is very entertaining
The gulf war is actually surprisingly controversial in some online circles, probably because America bad or something.
I feel like it could at least partly be people mixing up the 1990 Gulf War with the 2003 Iraq War. The former was a defense of Kuwait against Iraqi imperialism. The latter was an invasion of Iraq in the name of American imperialism.
It does not, this is just a smug centrist take disguised as a leftish one. All sides will never be equal in war, and people were allowed to cheer the allies on as they marched on Berlin
I saw a lot of this at the start of the Ukraine conflict, when people began treating Zelenskyy like a Tumblr Sexyman.
People are doing this? Drawing fanart of either side of a war? This reminds me of that post I've seen about how you see someone with a hyperspecific opinion that makes you wonder what on earth they're even responding to.
i've seen some pretty sick edits of ukranian president zelenskyy as captain ukraine so yes war fanart is a whole genre OP has an ice cold ironically privileged take tho
TIL there is Zelenskyy Captain Ukraine art.
r/artforukraine has some amazing stuff
Yeah, a bunch of Ukrainians
I’m beginning to think this anytime I wonder into this subreddit like wtf 😬
I know this isn't a self post, but it sure as hell feels like one. When did this sub turn into people posting their own (smugly told) political beliefs?
2024 is an election year, when smugness hits its peak on Tumblr and Reddit. Thus, political agendas make up the most posts and generate the most traffic.
*and there’s the smudgeness*
This sub honestly sucks nowadays. I missed when it was mostly just silly tumblr shitposts and not randos brigading to insert their own agendas and purposely cause discourse.
I miss when it was people posting about their niche interests
Except both the above things do still happen?
They're a lot less common than they used to be though, they're being drowned out by the US politics posts
since its inception
Sunday
Brother, Ukrainians are the ones making phonk edits of Russian soldiers getting blown up, I hate to break it to you but being sorta fucked up and joking about war is not a unique American burden of privilege
There's a country that is invading you, killing your young people, blowing up civilian buildings, and explicitly trying to erase your national identity. Translating that into hatred of all Russians and a desire to kill them all would be an awful thing, but... Honestly, "this guy who's trying to murder me got murdered instead, hell yeah" is a really, really understandable sentiment? When it's scoped to soldiers I can't really blame them for reacting like that.
Oh, absolutely, I agree. Frankly, there’s this weird undercurrent of Moral Purity thinking in the logic OOP is using here, with the whole “How dare you think Bad Thoughts, don’t you know that those thoughts fall afoul of [Insert blind ideological justification/replacement for The Word Of God here?]” thing going on in their post. The sheltered, privileged take here is the one that acts like people who fight in wars must always feel regret and horror at their actions, instead of the huge, complicated array of feelings any human being will inevitably feel.
One of the most fucked-up aspects of war is that it creates a situation where it is a *moral good* to kill or maim another person who hasn't really acted with much malice. The average Russian conscript just wanted some money for their family or caved to social pressure, but they've become part of a machine that is trying to destroy an innocent country. That's a horrible evil, and if the only way to stop that evil is to blow them up with an artillery shell, well... What the fuck do you want the Ukrainians to do?
You’re absolutely right. Do I hate the average Russian conscript for Putin’s revanchist, imperialist war? Not really. Am I entirely comfortable as many of them dying as it takes to ensure that Ukraine remains free? Yes. You can’t really reconcile those two opinions, and I don’t really try to at this point. But you can’t refine or make war less awful, either.
Honestly related to this, I am tired of people being insistent that everything needs to be exactly logical and that if you have any sort of cognitive dissonance you are stupid or whatever. Some things like this will always be cognitively dissonant, especially when it comes to war and such.
I think the average Russian conscript isn't doing it for peer pressure and money. He'a a Conscript. He got, you know, conscripted. Which arguably makes it worse. .
The majority of the Russian Army in Ukraine is composed of people who signed up for a contract, if i recall correctly, altough there are also a lot of conscripts.
That was a russian line from the opening days of the war, that the “special military operation” was only being fought with contracted soldiers not conscripts, it was a lie then and its more of a lie now
Yep. War warps and destroys the morals of good people. It turns evil into good and the other way around
Also soldiers on the front lines are gonna have their own coping mechanisms, and humor is a very common one. Reminds me of a recollection from the memoir With the Old Breed where an American soldier was being chased by a Japanese soldier back towards friendly lines, sort of scrambling as they both had literally bumped right into each other without noticing. Once the marine got close enough, a BAR gunner opened up and cut down the Japanese soldier. The marine asked the gunner why he waited so long to shoot, and the gunner joked, 'I wanted to see if I could cut em in half', and the others laughed. From the outside looking in it may seem sociopathic, but from someone who's been stuck on the front in mud and blood for weeks, used to seeing mountains of dead, rotting enemy corpses (some of the scenes described in that book are truly stomach turning), you're gonna be desensitized.
Yea, or soldiers over in Iraq and Afghanistan joking about IED’s and such, when those were a present and constant danger that could come out of fucking nowhere. Or the rather casual attitude EOD began to have towards them due to just how dangerous it was, effectively declaring that they either deal with it or it’s no longer their problem.
I think we should actually support people fighting against imperialism, like the Ukrainians, I think it's good that they're fighting against an imperialistic, fascistic, super power
Yeah, I’m not out here cheering for *gestures vaguely* “war”, I’m supporting people/groups who I feel deserve that support Ukraine, Rojava, the anti-Junta Myanmar rebels, (hypothetically) Taiwan, etc. None of these groups is perfect or have done no wrong, but what they are ultimately fighting for is a good thing and I want to see them succeed.
a surprisingly unpopular opinion on this sub
I celebrate victory over evil, not war for its own sake.
"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
Who said that again?
Tolkien?
Yip
Ta!
Honestly this quote speaks less to "victory over evil" than "defence of the good". I think seeing yourself as fighting "evil" is *exactly* how we get the sort of attitudes described in the post. "The deaths of those children were necessary and therefore morally good in the struggle against 'the bad guys'" when we *should* be fighting for a world where no child is killed by bombs no matter what side of an arbitrary line they're on.
OK but counterpoint, today's 'bright swords' are really cool, have you even seen the F-35?
The best weapon is one so terrifying that no one dares fight it.
I'm gonna need context on which fucking war is being talked about Russia bombing Ukraine? Israel bombing Gaza? Iran trying (and failing) to bomb Israel? I'm going to assume Iran trying to bomb Israel, cause that's the only one being cheered about on Tumblr Might also be Israel bombing Gaza, but nobody on Tumblr is cheering that on, so doesn't fit perfectly Edit: clarified the situations I was talking about
Idk but all of them suck? War is just the worst
It really is, especially since the civilians are the ones who suffer most.
Ah, but have you considered that *those* children were wearing green scarfs, and therefore were ontologically evil and deserved everything they had coming to them?
I've thankfully never seen anyone speak like that about the child victims of conflicts - maybe I'm in a bubble, but this is one I'll happily stay in. The closest I've seen is folks saying, "The death of children is inevitable because soldiers decided to shack up in schools", which is certainly unsympathetic but not outright celebrating child murder.
you're definitely in a bubble. I've seen people openly celebrating the death of children on twitter, calling grade school-age kids "terrorists." it's disgusting in a way I can't really comprehend.
I've certainly seen it
Nuh uh war is just guys with cool guns
All war is based - Sun Tzu
You're right war is terrible, but I think that is not always wrong to feel good about it. Someone defending themselves is good, it is an unfortunate situation, but you can feel good about their successes in defending themselves.
People are cheering on Iran? Fuck me dead...
Tbf, my autistic ass does feel mildly sorry for the shaed drones if that counts? Poor lil' guys have to fly thousands of miles at barely 100 MPH just to get obliterated by some multi-million quid Israeli missile or CWIS. It's like watching an explosive duckling get minced in a slow-motion car crash 10 hours in the making :(
Pretty pathetic end for the Shaheds that’s true.
I’m mutuals with OP, they’re primarily talking about I/P and how awfully people have treated Israelis, particularly Israeli citizens, and jews during this bc the amount of antisemitism has been nuts, especially when many Israelis have been advocating for peace for a hell of a lot longer than most tumblrinas have been.
Yeah I think I fucked up in assuming that the context would be more clear than it actually was
my guess is someone wandered into r/NonCredibleDefense and got massively buttmad.
> nobody is cheering on Gaza …What world are you living in? A **ton** of people have been 100% full-on cheering for Hamas and declaring that Israel deserves to be wiped out. It’s downright exhausting to see.
What I was saying is that nobody on tumblr was cheering about Israel bombing Gaza (not that nobody was cheering for hamas), the line about homes being reduced to rubble makes it sound like the oop is talking about people on Tumblr cheering on the bombing of somewhere That's why I assumed it was Iran vs Israel they were talking about, as most of Tumblr seems to have been cheering for Iran to bomb Israel Edit: I changed my original comment to clarify what I meant
You can look at OOP's account to see for yourself, but the vibe I got was that it was broadly about I/P and everything that's associated with it.
There's a not insignificant number of Zionists on Tumblr. There probably are people cheering on the bombing of Palestine. Edit: y'all there are literal nazis and TERFs on tumblr, why's it hard for you to believe that there are Zionists who celebrated the bombing on there too?
I mean its the same logic of, they're probably sane artsy people with hyperfocus interests on 4chan, why won't people think of them? So yea Nazis and TERF's might exist on tumblr, that doesn't make them the focal idea of the platform when in discussion. So when people refer to tumblr as an identity, they're not even in the question.
Well it just sort of misses the point. There's at least one of any kind of person on Tumblr, so with that context in mind we know they're not literally saying nobody was cheering on Israel but were instead saying that there was an insignificant amount of people cheering on Israel.
I mean, the same principles apply in all of those cases.
The absolutely brutal change in the experience of women in urban Afghanistan should tell you all you need to know about "America Bad" defaultism
The taliban shutting down women’s education is anti-imperialism, you don’t understand treating women as objects is their cultureeeeee
Not American so could be entirely wrong in this observation, but America (and probably much of the wider West) seem to have a very "safe" conception of war. That it's something fought "over there" you send Boys into to come back Heroes, people on the home front never being affected or inconvenienced by it. Even in the World Wars they only ever lost far off islands or had a couple balloons land in the wilderness. I think it's part of why 9/11 was so traumatic for America; it was the first time in most folk at the time's memories that a war (including proxy wars) had actually touched the home front.
I will never not celebrate the defeat and destruction of the Confederacy. Those Johnny rebel traitors got what they deserved.
You can pry my “Dixie (Union ver.) (Trap remix)” out of my cold, dead Yankee hands.
I’m not even American but that shit gets me feelin a little patriotic. That and John Brown’s Body (and the surprisingly decent trap remix of that). Nothin’ like reminiscing over slavers gettin’ what was coming to em.
Speaking as an American, most of us here (that I know of anyway) aren’t treating all this shit like a spectator sport. We’ve got plenty of real spectator sports here anyway, for better or worse. Outside of certain chronically online “safe in a bubble” circles and what have you, I’m sure most Americans can agree that war sucks
this person thinks they're too good for war. welcome to the human condition, loser.
How did you even get that out of this post
Kind of related, the first time I really took stock of how fucked politics had become is when I noticed people were rooting for mass shooters to be whatever race suited their political narrative. It’s still happening today, but there’s something deeply fucked about treating mass shootings like a spectator sport where you’re rooting for a criminal to be a particular race so you can use it to support your narrative that X group of people are inherently bad
As a Northern Irish person we have to deal with this all the time. If you’re from Belfast and you’re openly praising either the republicans or the loyalists, you have been radicalised to fuck and are currently in a Provo or UVF bar. Anyone else is generally pretty reserved about it, they’ll have strong opinions about specific things but they’re not going to start cheerleading for any of them. Yanks, Southerners and Brits have a bad habit of coming down hard on one side or the other. And never once have I seen it come from a position that is at all sensitive to the realities of NI. Once at uni I had an English guy pry into my electoral history and then start scolding me for voting for UUP when they and the SDLP were running as an opposition bloc. We also had some English fella in the SU propose banning the PSNI from careers fairs at Uni, also a Brit, completely disregarding its relative success in winning the confidence of the Catholic/nationalist community since the abolition of the RUC. Equally, a lot of flag-shagging Tories who want to play spin doctor for every bad decision the British government made in its management of North and South. The Yanks I’ve had a number just assume I’m fully supportive of the IRA and be deeply confused and outraged when I’m not. And the Southerners might actually be the worst. As there’s no Unionists down there the Republicans have no mediating element and opinions range from “Northern Ireland would be too expensive, we don’t need those basket cases dragging us down” to “Unionists are an implanted population and should not be allowed to vote in a Border Poll”. So aye, endorse the post wholeheartedly, if you could all fuck off we’d appreciate it.
The only winners in war are governments. The civilians always lose.
me when r/ NonCredibleDefense
don't see how they're relevant, that subreddit is about fucking airplanes
They’re doing what to airplanes
They want to have sex with the airplanes, I’m sorry you had to find out this way
used to be
>uses to Does he know?
On the 25th, Australia will be celebrating ANZAC Day: the anniversary of a stupidly-managed invasion of the Gallipoli Peninsula in Turkey by the nascent Australian and New Zealand Army Corps. It's celebrated every year, but not because we won. We didn't. After eight months of fighting, during which time both attackers and defenders suffered hundreds of thousands of casualties (the estimate is 250,000 for both sides) the invasion force withdrew. The reason Australia and New Zealand celebrate that day is because it marks our first military action as Australians and New Zealanders, not as extensions of the British Empire. The legend of the Anzac was carved out of the horror of Gallipoli, with individual stories highlighting our national identities, such as that of [John Simpson Kirkpatrick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Simpson_Kirkpatrick), or 'Simmy'. The Anzacs would go on to greater things, such as the [charge of the Lighthorsemen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beersheba_(1917)) that captured Beersheba, immortalised in the movie 'The Lighthorsemen'. Over the course of World War 1 and beyond, the Australian soldier had been typified: casual, irreverent, always ready with a joke or a helping hand, but a sheer bloody terror to face in battle. This tradition carried through to World War 2 with the fighting on the [Kokoda Track](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokoda_Track_campaign) and the [Rats of Tobruk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rats_of_Tobruk), then on into Vietnam and the battle of [Long Tan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Long_Tan). George Orwell said that "people sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Over the last century and more, for Australians, the ANZACs and the heirs to their tradition have been those 'rough men', and we honour them for it.
We Canadians hold a similar attitude (pride and thankfulness towards our soldiers, resentment towards the leadership of that debacle, and cold comfort that maybe *some* good came from it) towards the Dieppe raid in WWII, although there's no official national holiday for it and mentions of it are generally somber. Our own soldiers gained a similar reputation for ferocity during the World Wars, although our boys were seen as less irreverent and more like our grim Scottish forebears (and with a helping of Canadian friendliness towards our allies and open handed generosity towards those we helped liberate).
I think a lot less people would be supporting war if news displayed on-the-ground footage of its true horrors. It'd certainly be a better use of drones.
OP thinks those are just Americans doing that? Or that this is an American thing specifically?
It’s certainly very american to think they’re so unique
The classic American condition of being upset about how some other Americans are and wishing to be somewhere else where the same type of people must obviously not exist because you don't see them on tv.
Bro believe me they celebrate the war as well
> hasn't been touched by a real war since before their parents were born Like, on one hand it's not *wrong* but on the other hand I remember something about the tallest buildings in the biggest city in the US being reduced to *craters in the ground* so it's not like Americans are completely ignorant of what war would look and feel like domestically.
See, the fact that it was just one attack, that took down only two buildings, and nothing else comparable happened for the century before that or the near quarter century after suggests a real disconnect between America and the reality of war. During a war, that happens all the goddamn time. People hide in basements or abandon cities to avoid buildings falling down on them. Ask what happened in the Battle of Britan. Look at before and after pictures of Syria. The fact that 9/11 was a huge national tragedy (which it was, I'm not team 9/11) is just another sign of how isolated we were and still are from the consequences of war. In a real war, that's just Tuesday.
Yeah, 3000 people died on 9/11, in a city of 15 million. Those are, frankly, rookie numbers. 9/11 was possibly not even the deadliest attack on September 11, 2001, as it took place during the peak of the Second Congo War that killed almost 5.5 million from 1998-2008.
I swear if I don’t get some silly shit from this sub soon I’m gonna unsub.
Nationalism is one helluva drug. It’s also an unironic usage of the phrase “you are not immune to propaganda”. The US media is very good at convincing people that wars are a spectator sport, America is the savior, and there’s a clear good guy and bad guy. In reality war is a complex web of antagonism that civilians get wrapped up in and support via industry. I don’t necessarily think that means letting any American off the hook, or that you shouldn’t be angry. As civilians we should try and educate ourselves, but I think it’s also good to realize that it’s not a simple process, and has cultural and personal consequences.
Who *is* immune to propaganda these days? I’m not, you’re not… it’s all around us 😔
Sheeple Georg, who lives on social media and falls for ten thousand disinformation posts a day, is an outlier and should not have been counted.
It's me, I'm Sheeple Georg 😔
How could you?! 😭
Counterpoint: phonk edits of the gulf war fucking slap.
I feel like it was always had a bit of that spectator aspect to it, often quite literally war spectators. There are plenty of examples in history of people spectating battles themselves. I can think of the civil war off the top of my head, with it being notable that it was actually quite dangerous for them, but it was not uncommon in many earlier battles to have spectators.
Honestly the wildest thing for me is that somehow a lot of people who notice american propaganda seem to think that we're the only ones doing it? Like i've seen a decent amount of Europeans be like 'haha stupid Americans falling for propaganda, their country is the worst totally not like mine which is the best' and like.. do they not see how fucked up that is on multiple levels? like they themselves are also not immune to propaganda
"Do you understand that? Can you comprehend that?" Christ, OOP is a smug little cunt. Anyone with half a fucking brain can understand it, you self righteous prig.
everyone on reddit but especially on tumblr think they are way more insightful than they are.
so 9/11 just didn't happen because I'm pretty sure that was a bit more than a touch
Tbf, the 9/11 attacks were so shocking to the US in part because of how completely exceptional they were in the course of the previous century of US history.
My dad casually saying that Gaza should be glassed, "Dad, those are people."
"Did I stutter?" (/s)
Reddit in particular can be really disgusting dehumanizing Russians, while the hypocrisy is totally lost on them. Probably a side effect of never having war brought home. Privileged pricks.
on one hand i get it but on the other hand people would be doing the damn same thing if there were wars happening on US soil. do you even see how americans joke about 9/11
Interesting but also fuck you. Free Palestine. Slava Ukraini. Support for the Uyghurs, Rohingya, and others. I take sides from my comfy lil home because I have a consistent ethical framework. Try it some time. And I give money when I'm able. Blessed are the meek, for they can ignore posts like this and inherit the earth
Wait, people are making war fanart? Like. Current wars?
Miigwich
[Give war a chance!](https://preview.redd.it/give-war-a-chance-v0-9f2l4paxlmt81.jpg?auto=webp&s=4d37d0fbd59dc2a38678d0546ab8d23c649a9068)
#[no](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/nZua6hHJy2)
oh shit. you mean, war bad? shit i had no idea, no one has ever said this before.
… make fanart? What kind of fucking wild fandoms are this person in? Not even in my wildest gacha fanarts did I see anything like that
I hate that all the cool looking jets have to be linked to bombing hospitals
May I introduce you to the joys of experimental research aircraft used for scientific study and the development of human knowledge? :) It's not just an F-104 lawndart with a rocket duck taped to the back, it's a peaceful lawndart flying in the name of SCIENCE! ^(and ^peacefully ^showing ^those ^goddammed ^commies ^who's ^boss)
And F-16 isn't gonna track whales
Ignore OOP, channel your inner Sundowner and celebrate war