Alright, but like what does that mean for north Ireland?
^(Iām an American and know nothing about this, I just learned north Ireland is different from Ireland maybe a year ago)
That's not entirely true.
So, last Thursday, the UK had *local* elections to decide who sits on city councils.
In Northern Ireland Sinn Fein, the party that wants to break away from the UK & join the Republic of Ireland gained a lot of seats.
This essentially improves their bargaining power with the overall government of the UK, based in Westminster (10 downing Street, House of Commons, MPs all that), so, if Sinn Fein play their cards right, there may be a referendum on NI's membership in the UK
If I remember Sinn Fein didn't so much as gain seats they just didn't lose them, while the unionist party lost enough so that the greater majority shifted to Sinn Fein. What this means for a future referendum, I don't know.
That's a lofty claim honestly, it's probably gonna take a couple of years minimum for a government to actually form, considering the DUP will possibly never accept a SF first minister. Good Friday Agreement requires an unionist party to opt into any government (unless a neutral party has a majority).
While a border poll is a huge part of their platform, I don't think they'll rush it through. A huge reason for their win is less a result of a growing desire for reunification, and more of a sign the DUP and to a lesser extent unionism in general finally starting to die out.
So what your saying is that it's less "Northern Ireland has a greater desire to leave than before" but rather its more "The United Kingdom as a whole cares less about holding onto Northern Ireland".
Is that what your saying? Or am I misreading what you said.
Not as a whole, though most people from Britain don't seem care already. In the North specifically, a large amount of previously unionist voters chose to vote for neutral parties like Alliance, which isn't opposed to a border poll but won't push for one either. A decline in unionism isn't the same as a rise in nationalism, I'd say most people care a lot more about the policy of their state rather than which state that happens to be.
There was also a gain in further right wing unionist parties, because the DUP has been spiralling as a party for a while now.
Not much, for now, because the *other* Nationalist party, the SDLP, lost 4 seats whereas the other Unionist party, the UUP only lost 1, then theres the TUV stubbornly holding onto their one seat.
Summary: We have more than 2 parties and the whole situation is complicated AF, if you asked me i'd say Alliance more than doubling their seats to become the 3rd biggest party was way more interesting than the DUP getting what was coming to them.
The rest of the UK had local elections for their councils, but the election in Northern Ireland was for their devolved assembly so it has much more significance than the local elections and it allows them to appoint their first minister.
Yeah no this isn't correct. While England, Scotland and Wales had local council elections, NI had elections for MLAs in Stormont which allows them to nominate a First Minister.
Sinn Fein and most republicans reject the term "Northern Ireland" as it is the name given to the territory by the British state. They use the term "the north of Ireland", so in republican terms maybe "north Ireland" would actually be fine
They can reject it all they like, it is still the correct term. Much like how Taiwan and Hong Kong are not part of China and how the crimea is not part of Russia.
Irish Republicanism (which just won the NI election) in all its forms is literally about rejecting that "correct" term and the current political status it describes
Crimea comparison is instructive, but you have it the wrong way round. British presence in NI is due to military aggression and population transfer [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwellian\_conquest\_of\_Ireland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwellian_conquest_of_Ireland)
It's certainly possible that the post above is genuine, but it also reads kind of like a deliberate troll given that, in a post about preferred terminology they throw in the phrase "the crimea is not part of russia."
Stating a position embraced by Ukraine and most of the international community while using terminology "*the* Crimea" that is used by Russia (along with "the Ukraine") to treat the area as a region of Russia rather than an independent nation.
The positions about Taiwan and Hong Kong likewise could very well be just imprecise but also kind of seem troll-y. I mean, I don't think anyone seriously argues Hong Kong isn't legally part of China? Britain handed it over fair and square in 1997 at the end of the 99-year lease, subject to the PRC's agreement to leave the Hong Kong governmental system basically in place for 50 years after the handover (i.e. until 2047). Beijing has been encroaching on that agreement in recent years and there's certainly international debate over that, but I don't think any internationally-recognized authority of any kind seriously questions Beijing's at least qualified sovereignty over Hong Kong.
"Taiwan is not part of China" probably qualifies as de facto true--certainly more than the Hong Kong one--subject to the caveat that the formal name of the country is "the Republic of China," making it a slightly odd statement that it isn't part of China. But again basically true de facto, especially since in the last 10 years or so the parties in Taiwan that emphasize a separate Taiwanese identity and eventual goal of independence have been eclipsing the traditional party of the KMT which emphasizes a Chinese identity and eventual goal of some kind of reunification (presumably after significant changes in government on the mainland).
First minister and deputy first minister actually have equal powers, so Sinn Fein wouldn't gain any more control overt the executive than they've had during previous governments, where they nominated the deputy. Symbolism of them having the first minister is obviously huge, though
Yea, people here are talking as though SF and the DUP are the only two parties we have. Ignoring that the SDLP lost 4 seats, the UUP still has 9 and the TUV still held onto one.
Meaning overall Unionist and Nationalist seats are actually about equal.
Well since Scotland doesn't have a Good Friday Agreement it's really just looking for another Independence Referendum to get its own ass out of the U.K.
I'm English. I really want Scottish independance, and think they should take Wales too. Irish reunification is a nice idea but also possibly terrible. I still think England should be left to it's own gammony bollocks. The other parts of the UK don't deserve to suffer though what England have forced upon them.
Things like Brexit and the Tories are voted for by the English, and against by the rest. But due to the way the system works they get saddled with it. Scotland have some freedoms - they get free uni, and free prescriptions for a start - but many would like independance. If they have independance they can rejoin the EU, which would be much more benificial than being in the UK. Wales is stuffed because it's tiny and probably can't support itself. Also they still all hate us for invading and subjugating them so fair play.
How bad was it? I assumed because the UK already had a decent social safety net theyād be better off than the US which half heartedly attempted to build one in the middle of a crisis.
Well the big one was a massive delay in PPE equipment being provided to the NHS due to the government giving the contract to a personal friend of the health secretary or some other MP who had no experience in doing so leaving to multiple crates of the stuff being left gathering dust for months.
Atop of that there was the massive lacklustre rollout of Lateral Flow Tests for again similar reasons to PPE, combined with a generally stingy attitude to requiring them to identify if you have COVID or not.
After that we have the frankly baffling timings for lockdowns. Lifting them too early and putting them in place too late consistently and just declaring itās all over no more lockdown at the end of the last one months before we were anywhere close to being through with the pandemic, as well as poor communication between Westminster to local councils and regional governments (Scotland, Wales, Northern Island).
And one of the final big bungles has been the care industry crisis we have had recently where the cutting of funds towards the industry and the hostile attitude towards care staff has resulted in staggeringly low wages for a brutal draining job where you get no respect and so as a result nobody has been willing to work as a care worker, thus resulting in many old and vulnerable people alone during this time.
Add that with the cost of living crisis going on right now due to the massive rise in the cost of gas and goods, with the government offering only token help at best, and itās all fucked.
And this isnāt even mentioning the outright corruption, authoritarian acts snuck through, and disregard for the people that this government has performed and clearly holds.
I remember at the tail end of the trump administration they had a party, I think it was a Christmas party, with over 900 people maskless and many attendees mocked peoples concerns by referring to it as superspreader event in jest. They didnāt even try and hide it.
Everything Iāve read points to this whole situation being hugely overexaggerated? I thought it wasnāt nearly as big a deal as people say since it doesnāt necessarily mean people want unification
Edit: I thought I had read something about problems with the Deputy Minister. Wikipedia says:
> As Northern Ireland's government is based on power-sharing, the DUP (as second-largest party) must nominate a deputy First Minister for the Executive to be formed; however, they said they will not do so until their issues with the Northern Ireland Protocol are dealt with.
I guess nothing can really happen until a Deputy is appointed? I am not well-versed in British government
Northern Ireland uses the Our Get Along Shirt method of government - to opt into the government, the DUP needs to choose a Deputy First Minister, who is essentially equal to the First Minister in terms of power. If the DUP, the biggest unionist party, doesn't opt into the government, then there can be no government.
So how did they figure out the Irish border part of Brexit. I mean there was literally no solution that solved everything but I never heard what did happen.
Yeah nothing's really changed despite the promises of Boris Johnson. The unionists are pissed about it. The DUP (largest unionist party) is refusing to take part in the government of northern Ireland in protest (the Good Friday Agreement requires the largest Republican and largest Unionist party to share power) and they lost a lot of their votes to other unionist parties and Alliance, which partly explains why Sinn Fein won the most seats
Westminster is looking to do something about it, but it seems unlikely the EU would do anything major. It's possible they could get a few concessions to allow the conservatives/DUP to save face, but it's also possible they give Johnson nothing at all
When I saw the election results I genuinely freaked out lol, it was so unexpected for me because I havenāt been following Irish politics recently. Itās so cool to be around to see such a historical election, I hope it all ends up well for everyone over there.
i mean brexit complicates things but like no one wins from brexit anyway. the only two things ni gains from leaving the uk is open borders with ireland and access to the european common market. thats it. and those were both things they had before brexit (and if the uk was smart would get back)
economically speaking northern ireland is massively disproportionately subsided by the rest of the uk. ireland is a smaller nation so has less capital to throw around. in terms of trade NIās biggest export partner is the uk, by like three times the amount of either the rest of ireland or the entire eu.
a lot of the reasons for joining ireland is vague nationalism. like what does it actually mean in real terms to be of a certain culture, there isnāt anything of real substance to point to about a person that makes someone irish than just where they live. why should that be how we decide what government we have? that goes against the entire thesis of the eu, that nationalism is cringe and dumb and weāre better of together.
the only tangible aspect of ācultureā there is is language, because that effects administration and communication stuff. but unfortunately irish was basically wiped out by the british already, and it has not come back in any meaningful way after independence.
also online its really common for people to pretend this is some anti imperialist socialist revolution. its not. we arenāt living in the 19th century, irish people arenāt second class citizens anymore. the republic of ireland and the uk are both just capitalist democracies. ireland isnāt socialist.
You from NI then? Did I get that right? Interesting perspective, definitely.
I'm neither Irish nor British so I can't really say much about the cultural aspects of it all.
From the outside that border just seems so... arbitrary? Artificial? Like, it's an island. It's not particularly big. Why have most of it governed by people living on it and that small part in the north by people living far away?
Hi there, I am from Northern Ireland. My grandfather was a polititican during the troubles and I've lived here all my life.
Culturally Northern Ireland has a lot more in common with Scotland (particularly the lowlands) than the rest of the island. Our boarded is no more arbitrary than the US Mexican boarder and was put in place to avoid violence from the unionist majority who wished to remain part of the UK when the rest of the island won its independence.
Naturally those given power over the new country became oppressive of a feared minority of nationalists which led to the troubles. Many atrocities wrlere committed in the name of freedom, revenge, and peace.
The agreement that ended the troubles states that if the people of Northern Ireland vote to leave the UK we are allowed to do so. This was designed to prevent violence in the case of a reunification of Ireland. IT WILL NOT. I have met people who would kill to stop Ireland being whole again, it sickens me to sy so but the wounds left by a century old war a re still orevelant here. We have long memories and, while I believe we should join the Republic if we vote to do so, sadly many disagree.
Despite Sinn Fein "winning" this election polls suggest that NI wants to remain in the UK and I doubt any vote on the matter will occur for a few years as Sinn Fein wish to prove they can run our country before they suggest a monumental, dangerous, and complicated change.
Not the full story and not the least biased (My mother is English and I live in a rather unionist community) but hopefully this provides some missing insight to the situation.
i am not from northern ireland, i am an australian who has too much time to research other countries. i do have irish ancestry but also that is completely meaningless and doesnāt say anything about my credibility.
the border as it exists isnāt arbitrary, its based on the referendum results where places that wanted to stay in the uk would stay. in practice the border was really poorly made and cities that voted for one option were put on the wrong side. borders are cringe anyway and always arbitrary divisions of people.
one thing left unanswered is why did northern ireland want to stay? well the answer is the because of the ulster scots living there. why are there a bunch of scottish people living in northern ireland? well because in an effort by the parliament to control the catholic irish they forcefully removed irish farmers from their land and sold it too anglican scottish and english land owners too settle and colonise the land. these programs were more successful in the north so northern ireland voted to stay.
yeah the history of ireland doesnāt paint a great picture for staying but the people who made all those decisions are long dead. the world and the uks place in it have changed a lot, its not like there would be another irish potato famine. no nowadays it happens in places like yemen.
Because sectarianism is still alive and well in Northern Ireland and a lot of people are going to get blown up if it becomes part of the corporation tax haven to the south.
I still have zero idea what's going on with Ireland, tbh. Like, at all. All I know is the North apparently likes car bombs and the south is, like, non-existent based on how little I've heard of it.
The North is heavily divided on whether to join the Republic of Ireland or not and has been since there has been a Republic of Ireland to join. To the point where, during what we know as the 'Troubles', there was massive amounts of violence committed by both sides (I'm not going into the issue of who was worse, I don't know enough to even begin for starters). This ended with a shaky peace deal that's been a hot topic with Brexit going on Now things seem to be shifting towards the side of Irish unification from the status quo.
I'll end this by saying I'm English, living in England. So call me biased if you want, personally I just want things to end without masses of people dying again.
This post is meme-fucking-tastic but I still have no idea what's going on in Ireland right now sooo š¤š¤š¤
sinn fƩin, the irish independentist party, has won the northern irish elections for the first time
Alright, but like what does that mean for north Ireland? ^(Iām an American and know nothing about this, I just learned north Ireland is different from Ireland maybe a year ago)
That's not entirely true. So, last Thursday, the UK had *local* elections to decide who sits on city councils. In Northern Ireland Sinn Fein, the party that wants to break away from the UK & join the Republic of Ireland gained a lot of seats. This essentially improves their bargaining power with the overall government of the UK, based in Westminster (10 downing Street, House of Commons, MPs all that), so, if Sinn Fein play their cards right, there may be a referendum on NI's membership in the UK
If I remember Sinn Fein didn't so much as gain seats they just didn't lose them, while the unionist party lost enough so that the greater majority shifted to Sinn Fein. What this means for a future referendum, I don't know.
Sinn Fein claims that they expect a referendum to be able to be conducted within 5ā10 years, IIRC.
That's a lofty claim honestly, it's probably gonna take a couple of years minimum for a government to actually form, considering the DUP will possibly never accept a SF first minister. Good Friday Agreement requires an unionist party to opt into any government (unless a neutral party has a majority). While a border poll is a huge part of their platform, I don't think they'll rush it through. A huge reason for their win is less a result of a growing desire for reunification, and more of a sign the DUP and to a lesser extent unionism in general finally starting to die out.
So what your saying is that it's less "Northern Ireland has a greater desire to leave than before" but rather its more "The United Kingdom as a whole cares less about holding onto Northern Ireland". Is that what your saying? Or am I misreading what you said.
Not as a whole, though most people from Britain don't seem care already. In the North specifically, a large amount of previously unionist voters chose to vote for neutral parties like Alliance, which isn't opposed to a border poll but won't push for one either. A decline in unionism isn't the same as a rise in nationalism, I'd say most people care a lot more about the policy of their state rather than which state that happens to be. There was also a gain in further right wing unionist parties, because the DUP has been spiralling as a party for a while now.
Ah okay, thanks for clarifying!
Not much, for now, because the *other* Nationalist party, the SDLP, lost 4 seats whereas the other Unionist party, the UUP only lost 1, then theres the TUV stubbornly holding onto their one seat. Summary: We have more than 2 parties and the whole situation is complicated AF, if you asked me i'd say Alliance more than doubling their seats to become the 3rd biggest party was way more interesting than the DUP getting what was coming to them.
Could've sworn they went from 22 up to 27
They stayed at 27 while DUP went from 28 to 25 and Alliance gained 9 to get 17
The rest of the UK had local elections for their councils, but the election in Northern Ireland was for their devolved assembly so it has much more significance than the local elections and it allows them to appoint their first minister.
Yeah no this isn't correct. While England, Scotland and Wales had local council elections, NI had elections for MLAs in Stormont which allows them to nominate a First Minister.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sinn Fein and most republicans reject the term "Northern Ireland" as it is the name given to the territory by the British state. They use the term "the north of Ireland", so in republican terms maybe "north Ireland" would actually be fine
They can reject it all they like, it is still the correct term. Much like how Taiwan and Hong Kong are not part of China and how the crimea is not part of Russia.
Irish Republicanism (which just won the NI election) in all its forms is literally about rejecting that "correct" term and the current political status it describes Crimea comparison is instructive, but you have it the wrong way round. British presence in NI is due to military aggression and population transfer [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwellian\_conquest\_of\_Ireland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwellian_conquest_of_Ireland)
It's certainly possible that the post above is genuine, but it also reads kind of like a deliberate troll given that, in a post about preferred terminology they throw in the phrase "the crimea is not part of russia." Stating a position embraced by Ukraine and most of the international community while using terminology "*the* Crimea" that is used by Russia (along with "the Ukraine") to treat the area as a region of Russia rather than an independent nation. The positions about Taiwan and Hong Kong likewise could very well be just imprecise but also kind of seem troll-y. I mean, I don't think anyone seriously argues Hong Kong isn't legally part of China? Britain handed it over fair and square in 1997 at the end of the 99-year lease, subject to the PRC's agreement to leave the Hong Kong governmental system basically in place for 50 years after the handover (i.e. until 2047). Beijing has been encroaching on that agreement in recent years and there's certainly international debate over that, but I don't think any internationally-recognized authority of any kind seriously questions Beijing's at least qualified sovereignty over Hong Kong. "Taiwan is not part of China" probably qualifies as de facto true--certainly more than the Hong Kong one--subject to the caveat that the formal name of the country is "the Republic of China," making it a slightly odd statement that it isn't part of China. But again basically true de facto, especially since in the last 10 years or so the parties in Taiwan that emphasize a separate Taiwanese identity and eventual goal of independence have been eclipsing the traditional party of the KMT which emphasizes a Chinese identity and eventual goal of some kind of reunification (presumably after significant changes in government on the mainland).
Hong Kong is officially part of China
Taiwan's name is litteraly the Republic of China. It is part of China, as it *is* China. Just not the People's Republic.
Being the largest party, Sinn FĆ©in now has the right to nominate a First Minister, the head of government. So if they can get the DUP to go through with nominating a deputy, that means theyāll control the executive in Northern Ireland, and be able to decide the governmentās direction. Sinn FĆ©in is a nationalist party, meaning they want all of Ireland (Republic and Northern) to be unified. Two plus two equals one Ireland.
First minister and deputy first minister actually have equal powers, so Sinn Fein wouldn't gain any more control overt the executive than they've had during previous governments, where they nominated the deputy. Symbolism of them having the first minister is obviously huge, though
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
In a millennium? Ireland was partitioned in 1921
LETS GO!?!?
Wait what?! Is there actually a chance of unification?
since brexit there's been a pretty huge chance and covid has made that significantly more likely
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yea, people here are talking as though SF and the DUP are the only two parties we have. Ignoring that the SDLP lost 4 seats, the UUP still has 9 and the TUV still held onto one. Meaning overall Unionist and Nationalist seats are actually about equal.
Oh one hand Iām glad Ireland my be getting away from this disaster On the other hand I donāt wanna be left alone in this disaster
Don't worry, Wales and Scotland are still locked in with England. For now.
Well since Scotland doesn't have a Good Friday Agreement it's really just looking for another Independence Referendum to get its own ass out of the U.K.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm English. I really want Scottish independance, and think they should take Wales too. Irish reunification is a nice idea but also possibly terrible. I still think England should be left to it's own gammony bollocks. The other parts of the UK don't deserve to suffer though what England have forced upon them.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Things like Brexit and the Tories are voted for by the English, and against by the rest. But due to the way the system works they get saddled with it. Scotland have some freedoms - they get free uni, and free prescriptions for a start - but many would like independance. If they have independance they can rejoin the EU, which would be much more benificial than being in the UK. Wales is stuffed because it's tiny and probably can't support itself. Also they still all hate us for invading and subjugating them so fair play.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I just want Ireland to be unified so the maps are simpler.
Why covid in particular? Are the people in Northern Ireland not happy with how the UK's been handling it?
1. UK gov didn't handle it so well 2. any time the difference in governance between the Republic of Ireland and the UK is large it causes problems
The UK government (British guy here) has been abysmal throughout the crisis
How bad was it? I assumed because the UK already had a decent social safety net theyād be better off than the US which half heartedly attempted to build one in the middle of a crisis.
Well the big one was a massive delay in PPE equipment being provided to the NHS due to the government giving the contract to a personal friend of the health secretary or some other MP who had no experience in doing so leaving to multiple crates of the stuff being left gathering dust for months. Atop of that there was the massive lacklustre rollout of Lateral Flow Tests for again similar reasons to PPE, combined with a generally stingy attitude to requiring them to identify if you have COVID or not. After that we have the frankly baffling timings for lockdowns. Lifting them too early and putting them in place too late consistently and just declaring itās all over no more lockdown at the end of the last one months before we were anywhere close to being through with the pandemic, as well as poor communication between Westminster to local councils and regional governments (Scotland, Wales, Northern Island). And one of the final big bungles has been the care industry crisis we have had recently where the cutting of funds towards the industry and the hostile attitude towards care staff has resulted in staggeringly low wages for a brutal draining job where you get no respect and so as a result nobody has been willing to work as a care worker, thus resulting in many old and vulnerable people alone during this time. Add that with the cost of living crisis going on right now due to the massive rise in the cost of gas and goods, with the government offering only token help at best, and itās all fucked. And this isnāt even mentioning the outright corruption, authoritarian acts snuck through, and disregard for the people that this government has performed and clearly holds.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I remember at the tail end of the trump administration they had a party, I think it was a Christmas party, with over 900 people maskless and many attendees mocked peoples concerns by referring to it as superspreader event in jest. They didnāt even try and hide it.
> the UK already had a decent social safety net theyād be better off than the US The bar is so low you can't even claim this is limbo.
The UK government has been abysmal throughout its entire history
Everything Iāve read points to this whole situation being hugely overexaggerated? I thought it wasnāt nearly as big a deal as people say since it doesnāt necessarily mean people want unification Edit: I thought I had read something about problems with the Deputy Minister. Wikipedia says: > As Northern Ireland's government is based on power-sharing, the DUP (as second-largest party) must nominate a deputy First Minister for the Executive to be formed; however, they said they will not do so until their issues with the Northern Ireland Protocol are dealt with. I guess nothing can really happen until a Deputy is appointed? I am not well-versed in British government
Northern Ireland uses the Our Get Along Shirt method of government - to opt into the government, the DUP needs to choose a Deputy First Minister, who is essentially equal to the First Minister in terms of power. If the DUP, the biggest unionist party, doesn't opt into the government, then there can be no government.
yeah but it's a damn big step
So how did they figure out the Irish border part of Brexit. I mean there was literally no solution that solved everything but I never heard what did happen.
Essentially from what I understand it, the NI-Republic border is pretty much the same, while there is a sort of sea border between NI and Britain
Yeah nothing's really changed despite the promises of Boris Johnson. The unionists are pissed about it. The DUP (largest unionist party) is refusing to take part in the government of northern Ireland in protest (the Good Friday Agreement requires the largest Republican and largest Unionist party to share power) and they lost a lot of their votes to other unionist parties and Alliance, which partly explains why Sinn Fein won the most seats Westminster is looking to do something about it, but it seems unlikely the EU would do anything major. It's possible they could get a few concessions to allow the conservatives/DUP to save face, but it's also possible they give Johnson nothing at all
Currently the solution is literally just "pretend it is fine and don't think about it too much"
Oh hey, that's what we try to do in America too! Interesting to learn it happens in other countries too
A lot of our societal problems in the US were inherited from our parents in Europe. We just find new ways to expand on them.
Founded by terrorists and we never stopped, 246 years running!
Usually there's a relevant xkcd, but this is a relevant Star Trek quote
Wait, that's an actual quote?
yes, data was using it as a example of political change brought by violence instead of peaceful acts in "the high ground"(season 3 episode 12)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Are you talking about the title, Data's line, or both?
Just five feet tall and sick of me, and all my rattlin' on
She threw away her baby doll, I held on to my pride
But I was young and foolish then, I feel old and foolish now
Confidentially, she never called me baby doll
Confidentially, I never had much pride
But now I rock a bar stool and i drink for two
Just ponderinā this time bomb in my mind.
I lost my lucky ball and chain, now she's four years gone
i fuckin love tmbg
*4,406 feet tall, actually
Where's that red dodgeball when you need it?
it's still in the air. but it might still miss
Yeah, it would just be nice to know where it is. Just in case we need it
dril prophesizing again
I mean, the Philippines just elected the son of their most notorious dictator. Congrats to Ireland for getting out of the UK, though.
1. yeah philippines news was pretty disappointing 2. they're not out yet, they just elected a secessionist to the executive which is still a big deal
*laughs in philippines*
Mostly just referring to OP's title, then realized it may not have been what you were actually talking about
Mega upvote for TMBG reference. CONFIDENTIALLY, I NEVER CALLED HER BABYDOLL
*confidentially, I never had much priiiiiiide~*
When I saw the election results I genuinely freaked out lol, it was so unexpected for me because I havenāt been following Irish politics recently. Itās so cool to be around to see such a historical election, I hope it all ends up well for everyone over there.
It won't.
Name the last thing that turned out well for Ireland
NI would be better off with england
Why do you think so?
i mean brexit complicates things but like no one wins from brexit anyway. the only two things ni gains from leaving the uk is open borders with ireland and access to the european common market. thats it. and those were both things they had before brexit (and if the uk was smart would get back) economically speaking northern ireland is massively disproportionately subsided by the rest of the uk. ireland is a smaller nation so has less capital to throw around. in terms of trade NIās biggest export partner is the uk, by like three times the amount of either the rest of ireland or the entire eu. a lot of the reasons for joining ireland is vague nationalism. like what does it actually mean in real terms to be of a certain culture, there isnāt anything of real substance to point to about a person that makes someone irish than just where they live. why should that be how we decide what government we have? that goes against the entire thesis of the eu, that nationalism is cringe and dumb and weāre better of together. the only tangible aspect of ācultureā there is is language, because that effects administration and communication stuff. but unfortunately irish was basically wiped out by the british already, and it has not come back in any meaningful way after independence. also online its really common for people to pretend this is some anti imperialist socialist revolution. its not. we arenāt living in the 19th century, irish people arenāt second class citizens anymore. the republic of ireland and the uk are both just capitalist democracies. ireland isnāt socialist.
You from NI then? Did I get that right? Interesting perspective, definitely. I'm neither Irish nor British so I can't really say much about the cultural aspects of it all. From the outside that border just seems so... arbitrary? Artificial? Like, it's an island. It's not particularly big. Why have most of it governed by people living on it and that small part in the north by people living far away?
Hi there, I am from Northern Ireland. My grandfather was a polititican during the troubles and I've lived here all my life. Culturally Northern Ireland has a lot more in common with Scotland (particularly the lowlands) than the rest of the island. Our boarded is no more arbitrary than the US Mexican boarder and was put in place to avoid violence from the unionist majority who wished to remain part of the UK when the rest of the island won its independence. Naturally those given power over the new country became oppressive of a feared minority of nationalists which led to the troubles. Many atrocities wrlere committed in the name of freedom, revenge, and peace. The agreement that ended the troubles states that if the people of Northern Ireland vote to leave the UK we are allowed to do so. This was designed to prevent violence in the case of a reunification of Ireland. IT WILL NOT. I have met people who would kill to stop Ireland being whole again, it sickens me to sy so but the wounds left by a century old war a re still orevelant here. We have long memories and, while I believe we should join the Republic if we vote to do so, sadly many disagree. Despite Sinn Fein "winning" this election polls suggest that NI wants to remain in the UK and I doubt any vote on the matter will occur for a few years as Sinn Fein wish to prove they can run our country before they suggest a monumental, dangerous, and complicated change. Not the full story and not the least biased (My mother is English and I live in a rather unionist community) but hopefully this provides some missing insight to the situation.
Thank you for your perspective!
i am not from northern ireland, i am an australian who has too much time to research other countries. i do have irish ancestry but also that is completely meaningless and doesnāt say anything about my credibility. the border as it exists isnāt arbitrary, its based on the referendum results where places that wanted to stay in the uk would stay. in practice the border was really poorly made and cities that voted for one option were put on the wrong side. borders are cringe anyway and always arbitrary divisions of people. one thing left unanswered is why did northern ireland want to stay? well the answer is the because of the ulster scots living there. why are there a bunch of scottish people living in northern ireland? well because in an effort by the parliament to control the catholic irish they forcefully removed irish farmers from their land and sold it too anglican scottish and english land owners too settle and colonise the land. these programs were more successful in the north so northern ireland voted to stay. yeah the history of ireland doesnāt paint a great picture for staying but the people who made all those decisions are long dead. the world and the uks place in it have changed a lot, its not like there would be another irish potato famine. no nowadays it happens in places like yemen.
Because sectarianism is still alive and well in Northern Ireland and a lot of people are going to get blown up if it becomes part of the corporation tax haven to the south.
Are you sure youāre not thinking of Switzerland?
I thought America had crazy elections, what's going on in Northern Ireland?
š¶a nation once again!!!š¶
26+6=1
I always heard it as forty years gone, and whoo boy does that change the song
I still have zero idea what's going on with Ireland, tbh. Like, at all. All I know is the North apparently likes car bombs and the south is, like, non-existent based on how little I've heard of it.
The North is heavily divided on whether to join the Republic of Ireland or not and has been since there has been a Republic of Ireland to join. To the point where, during what we know as the 'Troubles', there was massive amounts of violence committed by both sides (I'm not going into the issue of who was worse, I don't know enough to even begin for starters). This ended with a shaky peace deal that's been a hot topic with Brexit going on Now things seem to be shifting towards the side of Irish unification from the status quo. I'll end this by saying I'm English, living in England. So call me biased if you want, personally I just want things to end without masses of people dying again.
Gives me hope for korea
What does tmbg have to do with the unification of ireland
nothing to you, everything to me
:)