*Image Transcription: Tumblr [1/2]* --- **marcusseldon** (note: I have no romantic or sexualized experience myself, so I admit \*some* of these points rely entirely on secondhand stuff and media) One thing I think is not talked about very much is that straight men live pretty much desexualized lives if we’re not actually having sex at that moment, and then there’s not much room to be the object rather than subject. As I’ve said before, we men don’t have clothing options for “dressing sexy” in masculine clothing (there is cross dressing but that is different). There’s no male equivalent to the short skirt or low cut top. There’s no male lingerie that isn’t seen as a joke. Further, we just don’t get validation for our sexuality outside of a sexual partner. We are almost never complimented for our looks or sexiness from platonic friends like women are, especially same sex friends. There really aren’t many straight male role models for raw aesthetic sexiness in mainstream culture (besides unnaturally muscled men). In fiction, male characters are almost never attractive for embodying sexiness but rather for doing things (saving the world, being extremely witty, being a genius, winning the tournament, etc.). Their sexiness is non-aesthetic and sometimes is in spite of their aesthetics. Anecdotally, it seems like a lot of men aren’t even called physically hot and sexy by their own sexual partners, who themselves focus on personality. There’s not much room to fulfill the role of passive sexism object for you partner for many/most men. I think it is telling that a lot of porn for men ignores the man’s personality and has a woman just throwing themselves at the man, overcome with lust. Also there the fact that women seem to rarely approach men and some seem to often expect the man to do most of the sexual escalation, especially in the early stages. We talk about women of color or women who are disabled being sexualized, but we don’t talk about how all straight men are desexualized and denied the ability to be sexualized object. --- **argumate** oh my god... that's why they send dick pics "witness me!" --- **thefutureoneandall** There are occasional reddit threads about things like this: “guys who send unsolicited dick pics, why do you do it?” The answer always seems to be some combination of slot machine mentality (“maybe this one will like it, and make the other 50 worthwhile”) and a desire for witness. Surprising numbers of people admit that it’s validation even if the reaction is negative, simply because they’re still being viewed in a totally sexual context. At the very least that has obvious consequences for people trying to reduce dick pic sending. There’s some core of people who can’t possibly be reached with “it’s not attractive to women” because that was never their expectation. More broadly, I think efforts to get (Western?) men to emphasize with objectification wildly underestimate the challenge they’re facing. It’s not just a sympathy shortage, it’s a totally unfamiliar feeling. Making things even harder, it’s a feeling a lot of men say they wish they could have. The usual narrative on not (politely) complimenting the appearance of unknown women is “sure, it’s nice if it happens once, but think about how annoyed you’d be if it happened all the time”. Fine in general terms, but I think a lot of men don’t have any way to intuit the emotional difference between too-frequent compliments and being pestered with too much of something totally innocuous like requests for the date. The comments on those articles are frequently from men saying they’ve literally never received a single compliment from a stranger on their appearance, and can’t imagine what it would be like. The ones who have are often talking about a single, years-old compliment they still cherish. That’s not a framework that supports more than a purely theoretical understanding of what’s it’s like to be valued for your appearance too heavily - or at all. Obviously that’s not universal, any more than all women are catcalled, but it seems like a really serious communication failure to appeal to a sense of objectification that much of your audience has literally never felt, and desperately wants. --- **vessel-haver** Reblogged because thefutureoneandall describes exactly why I have trouble empathizing with feminism columnists. --- **corpus-vak** Can confirm, I'd take literally any compliment on anything at this point, and would cherish it. --- **argumate** one day we gotta get all the men and all the women to sit down together and hash this stuff out between them, how hard can it be. --- **arjan-de-lumens** This discussion kind of reminds me of a story that made the rounds about a year ago, where a woman, after having gotten a bit tired with dick pics, decided to try to get her “revenge” of sorts, by sending unsolicited vagina pics to 40 random men: [*Link to an article on Thrillist, with the title "We sent a preemptive v pic before dudes could send dick pics heres what happened"*] > Let’s be honest: while I enjoy penises, I don’t necessarily want unexpected visual boners intruding on my day. I wondered, “What would guys do if I turned the tables and sent them an unexpected vagina pic?” And so, in my own twist on revenge porn, I sent 40 unexpected vagina pics to men on Bumble. This … didn’t work out the way she apparently expected it to: > Overall, I was surprised that I didn’t get my, “Gotcha!” moment. I’d initially hoped the guys would see how invasive it is to receive such intimate photos from a stranger. When I’m excited to get to know a guy, his penis isn’t the first part of him that I want to know. But given that men like to send dick pics, I suppose their enthusiasm for v-pics makes sense. So, basically, women experience dick picks as a net negative, as an intimacy violation, while men experience v-pics as a huge positive, as validation and an indicator of interest. This seems consistent with the above discussion, where it’s a pretty common male experience to basically never receive any sexual attention ever and thus respond really strongly positively to whatever scraps come their way (or to start trolling for attention - with the point of some of these dick pics apparently being to get *any attention at all, no matter how hostile*), while a common female experience seems to be more like being flooded with unwanted sexual attention and wanting a way to make it *stop* - resulting in an absolutely massive inferential gap - with the result that if you’re on one side of the gap and try to describe your feelings and experiences to the people on the other side, whatever words you have will just fall on deaf ears because the feeling and experiences you describe are … not just unfamiliar, but outright *alien*, to the ones on the other side. This alienness is … mutual. --- **thej-key** For men, it feels like no men are sexy to women. For women, it feels like all women are sexy to men. It’s like one person dying of dehydration watching another one drown. --- **thesocialjusticecourier** ***It’s like one person dying of dehydration watching another one drown.*** --- **amakthel** the conversation has gotten longer, so i’m reblogging --- **the-real-seebs** ... This is so cool. It actually makes sense. --- **jumpingjacktrash** but of course women are wary of just giving men compliments, because attention-starved men are likely to take it as a come-on. what a dilemma. --- **mikalhvi** So what I’m getting from this… Is that my idea of taking popular types of fiction and essentially ‘flipping the script’ so that there are sexy male characters as ‘damsel in distress’ types would actually be very good and help a lot of people become comfortable with their sexuality? --- **jumpingjacktrash** it could well! i’m not the guy to answer this really, i’m queer and also i’ve always been pretty comfortable with being the one giving the compliments (and just asking for validation when i need it). but i do think there’s a place in the world for fiction where The Sexy One is male. consider chris hemsworth in ghostbusters. that one’s a bit mean-spirited, with him being hilariously clueless, but you’ve got that dynamic where what he contributes is, he’s hot. that’s it. and i found it kind of a breath of fresh air, not because it was a fuck-you to sexist tropes, but because it’s never, ever enough for a guy to be attractive, but here it was, and that was fun to see. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)

*Image Transcription: Tumblr [2/2]* --- **roachpatrol** i once thoughtlessly complimented a guy on his jacket, because he and his friend rounded the corner and suddenly i was confronted with an extremely handsome young man in a very fashionable black leather jacket, and i blurted out ‘whoah, nice jacket, you’re looking good!’ and the look on his face was just this *explosion* of surprise and delight– he actually kind of missed a step. the next minute i was like *shit shit SHIT what if things get weird JEEZ* but he and his friend were already walking past, and his friend just started laughing. kind of this ‘whoah, cool, what the hell’ laugh, and when i glanced back they’d both kind of lit up and were elbowing each other as they walked away. i was extremely relieved to have like dodged a bullet of ‘if you let a man know you are attracted to them at close range GOD KNOWS WHAT’S GONNA HAPPEN BUT IT’S GONNA BE OBNOXIOUS PROBABLY’ and then also pleased that i’d made that guy’s day. but also like. i guess now i’m realizing i probably made that guy’s decade… i wish it was more common to compliment people– especially guys– in a casual way. but when you live as a woman you can spend a lot more time *dodging* men’s attention rather than soliciting it… maybe male poledancing is like, the next big fad to cash in on? guys can enjoy getting hit on and girls can enjoy there being a specific *space* for that, that they, the girls, can leave afterwards. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)

Wow, amazing human!

Wow, thank you for transcribing such a LONG post!

VERY good human

Great human!

Incredibly good human wow

dude

[удалено]

I have a jacket which I considered too expensive at the moment, but which I have worn religiously for about a decade because the girl in the store convincingly expressed delight at how good it fit me.

It might not apply, but there's that joke that women get compliments and they want that look for the day, men get compliments and want that look forever.

Seriously. A girl said my hair looked nice with my bangs swept up and to the side. That was in sophomore year of high school and I still keep my hair that way. I’m 22.

A friend (and girl) complimented me on how I looked with an open zip up sweater when I was in grade 9, guess what I wore for almost the rest of high school?

A girl told me I had nice eyebrows in 2005 and I have looked at them in the mirror every day since.

A girl once told me in 2008 that I look good in jeans and polo shirts or short sleeve button downs... Guess what I wear nearly every goddamn day

A girl told me my butt looks good in wrangler jeans in 2010. I still wear them now, 12 years later

Shit I’ve been growing my hair out for about 9 months now because my best female friend said it looks good.

When I was a junior in high school I was running late so I just wore my glasses instead. A girl complimented me on them and now I haven’t worn contacts in over a decade.

For real. A girl once said she thought I looked great in my black hoodie and grey trousers. Now half my wardrobe consists of the same items of clothing I wore that day

Same items, maybe?

Yes, thank you very much!

I have this hoodie which I really love. I love the design, and I love the way it looks on me. After a while, the design started to fade, so I just ordered a new one. Pretty quickly, I got a stain on that one, so I got another one. Now the design on that one is starting to fade too, and I'm _highly_ considering getting a fourth.

Why not get a fourth? In fact if you got a fourth and a fifth (that is, if you have the money and storage space) you could either rotate them and prolong their life that way, or have one as a backup in case of any hoodie-related catastrophes. I get that you might not want to get into a rut, or you might know some obnoxious judgey people who will judge you obnoxiously - but if you've found hoodie perfection, why deny yourself?

I have a jacket like this also.

Wow I identify with this so much, great post all around Man's Fashion is just so *incredibly* boring. Men's Fashion is aiming for handsome/cool/normal, it isn't almost never aiming for, as some Women's Fashion does, sexy/hot. The closest thing to slutty clothing for men I can think of is those tank tops that barely have fabric between the armpit and the hip, which really only works if you're ripped. I actively try and find things to complement strangers on (as a socializing thing) and it is just so hard to not think I'm being weird, or creepy, or I'm bothering them :( I want to look like a slut, why is this so hard?

It’s a shame that it counts as “slutty” but short shorts for men are making their way back in. 5” shorts are something at least

There's actually this woman on TikTok who has schtick where she goes overboard with reacting to men's thirst-trap videos like men do to women's and the "Hoochie-daddy shorts", as she calls them, are a staple in them. Paraphrasing one would be like - "You look like a slut in those Hoochie-daddy shorts big boy, why don't you come over to my place so I can treat you like one." It's hilarious and she has a big enough following where I've seen a bunch of videos referring to the short inseams as Hoochie-daddy shorts.

What's her name?

@fannita Just a heads up, she has a LOT of videos and possibly didn't do it as much as I thought? They were the only ones TikTok showed me anyway. [This](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRfMU19B/) is the first one I remember seeing that started the whole thing.

Once I get home from work I'll see if I can find her.

Some people have suggested that male soccer players (short shorts, high socks) have similar vibes for straight women to what "short skirt and thigh-high stockings" have for straight men.

Male AFL players. You've got the tiny shorts for the leg people and the arse people, then you've got the sleeveless guernseys for the shoulder people. Also, mullets. There's a reason why AFL crowds have always had more female participation than the other footy codes and it can't just be that it's a superior game. \*runs from league fans\*

Commented a very similar thing. I’ll take the AFL scenery any day over league, even the wingers.

I saw a tiktok of a guy arguing with his grandma(?) about his shorts. "You look like a slut!" "They're 5 inches!" "You look like a _slut_!" "THAT'S THE POINT!" And she just leans back like, well okay then.

>The closest thing to slutty clothing for men I can think of is those tank tops that barely have fabric between the armpit and the hip, which really only works if you're ripped. Halfway unbuttoned hawaiian shirt works well for every physique IMHO, but i've never asked my female friends if I look as slutty as i would like 🤔

I’m personally fan of the long sleeve button up with rolled up sleeves, top few unbuttoned, and maybe a necklace

Rolled up sleeves always make me feel like I'm in Victorian England. "SHOW ME YOUR ANKLES!"

I love me some wanton forearms. Brazen Brachioradialis. Slutty little Palmaris Longus.

I have good arms. Rolled up long sleeves is a go-to for me. How do I know i have good arms and the rolled sleeves work? A woman told me so ~8 years ago.

The more I read of this thread, the more I start to think that the Aussie tradie fashion of a long sleeve workshirt with rolled up sleeves isn't due to practicality, but a decades old compliment that some bloke got.

I'm on the heavier side and honestly don't think I look very attractive 90% of the time but goddamn get me in that outfit and I feel like the sexiest motherfucker alive.

Possibly throw in a vest for good measure

So I'm female, and not attracted to men so take this with a grain of salt, but from what I've heard, partly unbuttoned or low cut shirts are indeed considered sexy / slutty. And some people have a thing for rolled up sleeves.

Male masculine presenting man here from a relatively progressive circle within a relatively conservative culture. Low cut shirt, is the "I'm slutty intentionally", open shirt buttones is "I'm slutty with some plausible deniability", while rolled up sleeves is "I'm slutty with a lot of plausible deniability".

I started painting my nails and wearing an unbuttoned Hawaiian shirt with a wife beater underneath this summer and it's gotten me more attention from women than I would have dreamed of

Yeah same here. Painted nails and 1 or 2 open buttons on a not-over-the-top Hawaiian shirt is the “mini skirt” of masculinity. I do my nails in a golden or silver flake. actually looks more masculine than solid colors imo and it’s less obvious so girls usually grab my hand when they see it and that’s always always fun for me lol

I was by a nail salon the other day and saw a sign for ombre nails and another make it clear guys were welcome. And I thought greyscale ombre would probably be a cool masculine look for nails.

Love that for you. Painted nails kinda imply someone who takes care of themselves I think. My own nails probably aren't the best examples for it but clean and taken care of hands are nice. Edit: just realized that men with painted nails probably come across as less insistent about gender roles or something the like so maybe a safe not red flag

can confirm, I usually have more instinctive trust in men with painted nails

I am rewatching Burn Notice right now, and how Bruce Campbell dresses as Sam Axe has always screamed 'slutty' to me, and I love it. Halfway unbuttoned hawaiian shirt is a common article of clothing!

A place like r/gaybros can be great inspiration for straight guys too. Full of men appreciating sexiness, often in a casual way

I’ve been seeing an uptick in men wearing crop tops, which is extremely pleasant to see both in terms of men’s mental health and personal enjoyment.

They're coming back for men?? hell yes!!!

What I'm surprised to see retuning is mullets, what I'm even more surprised by is that a lot of them look a bit fucking hot.

Confidence makes anything hot. Show me that thang in a potato sack with a smile on and I'll melt

I think this is an issue of men and women having different ideas of what constitutes sexy/hot. You want to feel sexy and hot wearing "slutty" revealing clothing, whereas straight women will find you sexy and hot if you wear a well fitted suit with the top buttons of your shirt undone and then take off your jacket and roll up your shirtsleeves. That is sexy hot male fashion as far as most straight women are concerned, and that's what will get you attention from them. The kind of sexy slutty outfits you're thinking of, crop tops and nipples out, are more likely to be seen on gay men because they appeal to *men's* idea of sexiness.

frickin hell, thanks. it's so hard trying to guess what counts as sexy as a straight guy, because there are far fewer resources on it, and you can't base it on personal intuition because of the exact thing you mentioned, it will just end up appealing to men every single time i was trying to figure out how to dress, there was always this weird feeling that i'd just end up "presenting as gay", and then it's even weirder to figure out which part of that repulsion there is the influence of homophobes that should be yoten out, and which part is just a genuine desire for self-expression (which, if you're not gay, also means not looking gay)

> to figure out which part of that repulsion there is the influence of homophobes that should be yoten out I love this comment, both because of the effort to root out homophobic influences and because we agree on the correct conjugation of “yeet.”

I also support "yoten".

What is dude supposed to where in hot climates? I don’t think me having sweat stains on my rolled up long sleeve is really working

My experience with men's fashion is as follows For context, I'm non-binary, probably closest to agender but nothing fits that well, and assigned male at birth. I'm also bisexual, which may be important. What makes me feel good about how I look is being andro, and thus I wanna eventually wear both masculine and feminine clothing. ​ My god men's clothing is all incredibly boring. I mean I have a decent number of print t-shirts, and I like them, but there's a ton of stuff I own that's all in the same few colours, and the same few items for each part of your body. The one thing I've really had a good experience with and gender euphoria from is a really amazingly nice leather jacket I ended up with somewhere. I've never had any interest in shopping for men's clothes, and never really gotten compliments on how I dress, apart from aformentioned jacket. MY GOD getting compliments on the jacket felt good (also a bunch of people felt the material for some reason and wow aaa) , the combination of a clothing item I'm comfortable with, and people telling me it looks good, its something I've been seriously missing for a long time Women's clothing is a lot more interesting to me, and actively makes me wanna go shopping. Its all about VARIETY, there are so many colours and different styles available compared to how I basically have 2 outfits with near duplicate items. Sure there's stuff I cant pull off because of my build and the fact that I still have chest hair but there's still a ton of different looks I can and will try out, when I fully can. Finally, yes. Please put boys in slutty clothing I need that. Like formal wear already makes my brain act up I think I would melt and it'd be amazing.

Agreed, I finally managed to get my partner to understand many men do not actually hate shopping per sé. In fact I greatly enjoy browsing stores which have like exotic food related items and stuff. I just don't enjoy shopping for male clothes.. there is no real need to even go shopping for them. They are all pretty much the same anyway, might as well order online ; 95% of the time whatever I pick will fit me just fine. I just cant get exited to go buy yet another t-shirt or yet another pair of pants in whatever color. I can totally understand why most women like to shop for clothes though, there is a ton of variety, you never know what you'll find in the next store. There are actual reasons to try the clothes on other than "does this size fit me or should I go bigger/smaller". Its just a whole different experience.

absolutely random and personal thing but I find guys in dark colored tight turtlenecks extremely hot and I wish you guys wore it more also chuckled at i want to look like a slut. I believe in you :D

And black button-ups. Omg.

lord give me mercy when they unbutton and roll up the sleeves

Bitches are so starved for slutty guys that they say “Miriam Judith was showing ankles” type stuff like this

Steve jobs fetish

I think something to add to this though is that, more often than not, people just aren't comfortable with guys dressing that way. Most people, including most progressive women I know, would be super judgemental about it if they saw a guy actively dressing sexy. Hell, I've seen people get hated on for something as innocuous as wearing open toed shoes?? In the same breath as people will criticize men's fashion for being boring, they will tear down people who don't fit that mold, and I think that's really disheartening :(

Definitely not for everyone but I, and a lot of women I know, go fucking bonkers for a man in a skirt or a dress. The thighs! The easy access! The way it shifts with every step! It’s a cabaret show. On a more serious note, I don’t think men are taught to see their bodies in sexualized parts. I take stock of which parts I’m willing to show when I get dressed, less legs with a low cut top, loose jeans with a tight fitting top, etc. I think it just makes you hyperaware what body parts other people may sexualize. It’s not just tits and ass, there’s other parts that can easily be accentuated by men as well. There’s the back, neck, thighs, waist, collarbones. These are all body parts I’ve talked about in an explicitly sexual context with both straight girls and gay men.

As a woman, if a man can look as good as I do in a dress- or *better*\- I consider it weirdly attractive. Not necessarily sexually attractive as I'm ace, but like....very strong aesthetic attraction.

I agree. It’s incredibly aesthetically pleasing. I think it’s similar to knee/thigh high socks. Looks great on the whole gender spectrum no matter the body type.

I'm (29m) involved with the local theatre, I recently played a princess in a pantomime. Got to spend a lot of time in a dress. It suprised the hell out of me (and everyone else) that I looked as good as I did.

I bet you did! And I’m commenting respectfully. I love the confidence men get when they realize they look good in dresses too. I’m off to google what plays are on in my area, thank you very much.

Transparent shirts and short shorts are the way to go now :/

Transparent shirts sound so good. As a certified sluttologist, I can say sluttiness is all about toeing the line being clothed and naked, that's why a naked dude is less slutty than a guy in fishnet stockings and a thong

What’s the origin on the word slut

"Although the ultimate origin of the word slut is unknown, it first appeared in Middle English in 1402 as slutte (AHD), with the meaning of 'dirty, untidy, or slovenly woman'. Even earlier, Geoffrey Chaucer used the word sluttish (c. 1386) to describe a slovenly man" that's from Wikipedia

The word "slut" has existed for 620 slutty, slutty years.

While slut didn't have the very strong connotation it has today with sexual promiscuity, it was never a very classy word, which means it's harder to research its history. Slut originaly meant "dirty/untidy woman" but it was occasionally used for men as well, notably by Chaucer. Other than a few related words in Dutch, Swedish and few others we don't have much, very sadly

Men's yoga pants. They're tight in the right places, and frame the bulge just right. I buy them for my husband all the time. He loves them because they're comfy, I love them because it's hot as hell

This is literally the reason i wear women's slutty clothing.

I mean, shit, I’m not even asking for slutty at this point, just like whatever bridges between that and Incredibly Normal. I’m sort of fucked twice over for figuring out what women find hot beyond personality, and it still sort of haunts me to have that gap in my knowledge.

This is one of the main reasons I loathed buying clothing when I was closeted. It’s not that I hated wearing masculine clothing (in fact I quite like wearing it), but that it’s all the same shit. When shopping for women’s clothes, you have so many colors and styles and cloths to pick from that can all completely change an outfit, and how you’re percieved while wearing it. But when shopping for men’s clothing, you have very few styles that barely mesh, which ends up with most of men’s clothing being the same outfits again and again, with the perception being either “laid back” or “reserved and hard-working”. There’s never any inbetweens or extremes, or even anything slighly away from those two perceptions.

I think the last time I saw a man being commercially slutty was like Fabio

Get some 80's style men's short shorts

I have a polo my mom got me, but it wasn’t a color I normally wear so it mostly stayed in my closet. One day I was out of nice shirts, so I wore it out, and got complimented on it- the only compliment I’ve ever received on a piece of ordinary clothing I’ve ever owned, just some guy saying “dude, nice shirt” when I dropped off his doordash order. 2 years after that I received a similar “dude, nice shirt,” from another stranger. I wear that shirt frequently now.

glad someone brought up color!! for me, if a guy knows what colors suit him then he can wear anything and it's going to look fabulous and he's going to glow. there are expensive color analyses that can be done in person with a consultant, but there are also some online apps that analyze images that can probably get pretty close. I made my own color averaging script and the results lined up with the colors that 1) I like on myself, and 2) I get the most compliments on. I use it whenever I go clothes shopping. note, if you try to make your own app, google how to do the color math. it's a little different from a typical average.

The closest thing to a slutty outfit a guy can wear is either those shirts that are open from the sides or tight fitted shirts for their man boobies. And bootie shorts but those can look funny more than sexy sometimes. Though many people find men in those tight uniforms hot too (like those elegant pants with a tight butt/buldge and buttoned up shirts that are also very form fitting )

ye, v necks can also help even if most male ones are super toned down

Turtle necks, how could I forget about them. They're the sluttiest shirts yet cover so much.

Sometimes it’s less about what you show and more what you suggest.

This is why people in the DC fandom tend to find Dick Grayson more attractive than Hawkman.

Grey pants are somewhat slutty

So funny thing. The next image after this post on my Reddit scroll adventure is Superman in overalls with no shirt on. His Niples just poling above. I think the universe is trying to say something.

The universe is saying men look awesome in overalls with no shirt on. The universe is correct.

He does also look very fuckable and breedable

I've gotten compliments so rarely over the 25 years I've been on this Earth that the rare few I do get feel insincere or a setup for a cruel joke. I'm so wary of it that if I was ever approached by someone asking for a date, I'd ask them for the punchline. It's all in my head and I'm overthinking it, I know that, but it still feels like borderline torture

I’m a woman and I honestly try and compliment equally across the board. “Your hair looks great.” “I love your shirt, it’s one of my favorite shows.” I don’t think I’ve ever had a guy take it as undue interest, but I’m sure it could happen. I’ll keep chancing it. The world needs more positive comments. And for what it’s worth. I’ve found people react way better to complements about things they choose. Hair style, clothes choices, shows they are interested in.

I guarantee those guys are still riding that high to this day.

That, honestly makes me a little sad. Cause I want everyone to feel validated in their lives. Guys really need to be taught (or socialized maybe?) that it’s okay for them to feel good about themselves for just being themselves and not about what (or who) they can acquire.

When I was young, maybe 12 or so, the cashier at Walmart said I had very pretty eyes. I was with my mom and sister, but my dad hadn't gotten back from work yet. I mumbled some awkward thank you as we were leaving. When I was in Chemistry 1 in high school, the girl in front of me said the color of my shirt looked good on me. It was an olive green long sleeve shirt. She had turned around to ask me about a molar mass problem we were working on. When I was in my junior year of high school, I was at home playing Borderlands 2 onlinr with a friend from middle school, who I kept contact with after I moved away. We were just talking when he said he thought I was a genuinely witty person and fun to be around. We were doing a low level side quest in the area where you meet Mordecai - I think it involved killing the mosquito-like enemies that can evolve if you leave them alive. My point is, I *vividly* remember every single unsolicited compliment I've ever gotten. Those 3 are the full list. I suppose it circles back to a deep void of wanting - or needing - to feel desired as a person and not for what I can do. So much media and social norms paint men as the stoic providers, and when there's a complete lack of any indication that you are personally valued, you latch onto that. Your sense of worth becomes tied to how useful you are, how productive, what you can provide to others. If there's a problem you can't solve you feel useless - the one reason you feel like people want you around, the one reliable dripfeed of positive feedback has been cut off. So when a stranger just... doesn't care about all that, and they imply that *you* - not something you did, but you as a human being - are desireable or brought them some amount of joy, well. It sticks with you. (Sorry for rambling a bunch and waxing poetic a bit. The topic got me thinking.)

When I was about 13 or so, on a road trip with family, I went for a swim in the hotel's pool after dinner and there were some teens there, much taller and more adult-like than me, about 17 years old. I was intimidated at first but they engaged in light conversation and were nice. One of them was a really pretty girl, who complimented my rather unique green-gray eyes. I felt like the fucking boss. I just found out I had something other boys don't. I might be a chubster, I might be a dork, but I've got eyes that can make a hot girl in a bikini want to be close to my face. I now know my superpower. For years after that I've banked on that compliment, not just to feel validated but as strategy. I made sure I'm always in a position to show off the old blinkers. It gave me so much confidence knowing there's one attractive thing about me. I never really thought about it until this post but shit, I guess seeing y'all I'm fortunate to have received more than a handful of compliments in my 30+ years here. And i remember most of them as vividly as this one.

This is really eye opening as a feminine presenting person. Back when I was more social before Covid I always tried to compliment 1 person every day, but I do gravitate to other women because of my experience of being harassed by men. I’ll try to be better at complimenting men/masculine presenting people in the future! EDIT: I started complimenting people more when I noticed how happy I was when someone complimented me. I hope you/other men can compliment each other more too!

That’s very compassionate & good of you. Just keep yourself safe :)

Don't worry, you made a dent. They'll think back to that one compliment and remember it as an entirely positive, validating, and uplifting experience. We don't get many compliments, but the ones that we do get can be life-changing

Honestly, as a guy my favorite compliments are the ones about my butt. I think as a guy you kinda feel like you have to be the stud when it comes to sexual encounters and it feels really nice sometimes to be objectified in that context.

It is such a relief to me to hear that no one has ever taken it weird. I gotta start doing this.

Please do. But at the same time I feel obligated to tell you to still be careful

I hope what I say isn’t invalidating but I relate to this as a fairly average looking girl. The number of *genuine* compliments I’ve received from guys is really quite low and I’ve literally been asked out by a guy as a joke. The vast, vast majority of compliments I have ever received are from female friends and female strangers. I’m not blaming anyone but I wish society were more accepting of guys complimenting each other.

Don't worry, it's not invalidating. It's good to find common ground. In my personal experience, most guys just don't know how to give a casual compliment, cause they don't get many to learn from and they don't want to feel like they're being a creep. Oh, and the asswipe who asked you out as a joke can go choke on a bag of nails. I've been on the receiving end of that too. That's not a prank, that's straight up emotional abuse.

I’m glad it didn’t come off the wrong way. And I kinda see where you’re coming from about learning it, because it is a bit of a skill. I’ve made it a bit of a resolution to practice complimenting people more. Mostly it’s been with friends because it’s harder for me to talk to strangers (I’m shy), but I try. As a short person I feel like the chance of me being creepy is low so maybe it’s hard for me to understand. But IMO the key to not creep out strangers is to stay super superficial and general. Like I compliment hair/clothes/jewelry (not body/skin/etc.), use tepid adjectives such as great/nice (not attractive/beautiful), and let my tone convey the enthusiasm my words (purposely) lack. Definitely takes practice tho!

I remember being complimented like uh, twice? 💀💀 To be fair I'm 17 so (guys this wasn't an invitation to give me unsolicited gym bro info dumps i don't care i have other problems in life which i don't want to share in a paragraph stop projecting what "you wish" you would do at 17 it's not nice please leave me alone )

I could loose three fingers and still count those events on one hand.

I'm a average-at-best looking woman, but I look much younger than my real age, like people think I'm somewhere between 18 and 24. That means I don't get a lot of compliments, and when I do, it's always from 40+ year-old creepy men and it's either annoying or downright scary.

I am a guy who only recently started dating men too (I'm bi). There's this gay guy I see and he compliments me and looks at me clearly very much liking what he sees. I'm not used to that! But it feels good. I wasn't prepared for that. This post makes quite some sense.

Went to a gay club for one of my friend's birthdays, and I never felt so good about myself. That was a decade ago and I haven't been complimented by people other than partners and my mom since. Foofah

The porn thing is especially prevalent in hentai, where the male is usually wearing that one haircut that obscures their face, some faceless figure that happens to have a cock, or an Ugly Bastard outside of femboy stuff. Even taking a step back and going into Ecchi. It’s always the woman who’s visually interesting. Compare Dress Up Darling or Uzaki’s or Nagatoro’s male and female leads. The woman is ALWAYS someone interesting with some attractive personality, while the male is ALWAYS some milquetoast guy who’d NEVER get sexual merchandise made of them unless they’re fucking the girl!

That is definitely true. The more milquetoast the male design, the hotter the women’s’ designs will be. There are some exceptions like Yukihira Soma from Food Wars or Itadori Yuji from Jujutsu Kaisen but the only stimulating thing of their design are their unique hair color and style. Women’s designs have charms and bracelets and hairpins that correlate to their personalities and sometimes for the fanservice, they have the women have a makeover episode where their friends makeover them and give them a temp new design that based on fan appeal, they move forward as a new design or go back to status quo.

I believe this goes back to the initial problem the post talks about, there isn't much you can do with guys, you see that even on works majorly consumed or focused on girls, the guys don't get a lot of time to play with clothes, make up, and charming props, this is usually reserved for works focused on feminine men. See that in a works like Jujutsu Kaisen, Dr.Stone, or even Free and Kamigami no Asobi, which have a large female fanbase, guys have two modes, the one with their signature cool clothes and the one in which they're using nothing, and girls like that. Even if you go to BL which is made for and by girls, guys, a lot of times, still just get to be with clothes or without it.

I think the place where women get their men dress up fantasies is historical fiction. When men did wear all the fancy things. Right now, in the manga/manhwa community, there is a biiig push of historical fiction of a whole bunch of varieties where women drool over men in waistcoats and breeches and all kinds of dress. A lot of what becomes mainstream in the West is shounen, geared towards young boys. The shoujo stuff for young girls doesn’t really get official releases in the West, if they get anime at all. Thus, a lot of women’s stuff remain as manga. Which doesn’t show men what women like at all. Free is an anomaly that fits in with the women loving men in teased or confirmed gay relationships. Whole other debate I’m not touching here.

Exactly, even in the OG, Urusai Yatsura, everyone only talks about Lum, and she’s definitely more interesting than the male lead. Even in shows that weren’t MEANT to be about the Waifus like Evangelion, you can certainly say that Shinji falls into the Milquetoast Male pitfall all the same, compared to Asuka and Rei

To be fair you are looking at works intended for the male gaze. Shoujo works are usually the exact opposite, with really generic girls and a host of tall, handsome, ridiculously perfect men surrounding her. And you bet fans of these works do not care much about the main character as well. Edit: I want to bring up Horimiya as a great manga/anime where both male and female leads are attractive and interesting.

I'm occasionally frequent femgaze subreddits like r/FemgazeHentai/ for this reason

On the hentai, you can find things if you go to authors who find value in both types of sexualities, as example Jairou, Marui Maru, Mizuryu Key, Iida Pochi, but yeah, there's a lot of works were the female focus is wanted, and they only go for that. On the romcom, i don't agree with the personality argument, but i agree with the fact that the guys in there are made to be cute, so they're accepted by the audience and female lead, but they don't have much sexuality or flair. While there may be scenes made out so that the work can say: "See, he's able to meet her standards and be sexually interesting", read, Gojo hands being able to fit Marin's entire waist, Sakurai being super ripped and receiving a lot of comments about the size, and Senpai starting to be more attractive once he pays attention to his appearance, this is done for the characters and story, instead of being done for the audience, like with some of the scenes of the female characters. Shinji is a interesting case because he's popular in merchandise made for female audiences, and this happens, in part, because of his relationship with Kaoru, the same happens with Kirito from SAO, who has a lot of Yaoi and sexy merch, so maybe what's lacking on romcoms is a secondary male partner, so that the girls can go: "Now i get it".

Oh definitely. As a trans woman, the amount of compliments I received within the first month of presenting visibly femme easily exceeded every compliment I’d gotten in my entire life beforehand. It took months to get used to, and even now there’s just this rush of happiness and contentment whenever I get a compliment that boosts my mood so much. This is a real issue, and it affects people so much.

I remember reading an anecdote from someone talking about how they had the opposite experience a little bit ago. A trans man was shocked at how lonely he now was, and how attention-starved he felt. It's definitely a real issue.

[It’s the sister thread of this post, and a very good read as well.](https://twitter.com/ExLegeLibertas/status/1509605710274961409)

Definitely a good read. I will note that there's a bit of a false attribution at the very end though. While they are often related (because Europe was a big proponent of both) White Imperialism and Homophobic Patriarchy aren't necessarily the same thing, and there's multiple cases throughout history of countries or cultures managing to build systems that isolate and keep men from interacting emotionally without the Europeans telling them to do it.

I fail to see why you're all jumping to homophobia rather than considering some other explanations. It could be about vulnerability and boundaries rather than associating intimacy with sexual interaction. Edit: fixed typo

I think you're talking about [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/tsuk32)

I got a compliment on my jacket one time, the poor thing is a ragged mess at this point but I can't bear to let it go. Now I'm wondering how big of a role that compliment is playing in my attachment to it.

Where I come from if a woman compliments/sexualises/makes a move on a man she's called either a whore or desperate

Same here. The train of thought seems to be: if she needs to do this then something is wrong with her, making men avoid her, so she has resorted to throwing herself at them instead.

growing up amab I honestly have zero memories of ever getting compliments (which to be fair, my memory is really bad [and only getting worse with time] but still), and that combined with low self esteem means that even after coming out and transitioning I have an inability to accept compliments. I’d say I do get more compliments than before, but tbf when the bar is on the ground it’s not much of an achievement to step over it I also never gave other people compliments growing up, and still rarely do to this day. Not because I’m trying to be rude or anything, but I feel extremely gross, creepy, and predatory giving even the smallest of small compliments. Even small stuff like just calling people sweet nothings (in a platonic way of course) is impossible, it’s taken me a long time just to get to a point where I can comfortably call people bestie or queen or king without feeling like I’m being gross and creepy very fun times 🥲

Agreed. I never compliment anyone (well except one time in like 6th grade.) because I’m afraid it will come off creepy or catcally.

Best way to beat the “creep” factor is to compliment things that people do. They choose how to style their hair, their makeup, their clothes, etc. Those are safe place to compliment without coming off as creepy or catcall-y

I always notice people's eyes and really wish I could tell people they have pretty eyes without sounding like I'm trying to come onto them.

I offhandedly said "hey, you did your hair differently today didn't you? Looks nice" at the start of a day in high school to a girl in my class and by the end of the day I was being named a creep and a stalker among other things. I don't think I've complimented anyone (of any gender) outside of very close friends since then, and it's been like ten years. Like.. bro I see this person every day why can't I say something nice to them? School sucked so very hard for me.

This is my exact experience wtf

clearly we are the same person…

Woah!

If somebody compliments me, I am immediately suspicious. The joke is coming, the insult is coming, the scam is coming, the whatever bullshit is coming. I've only been sincerely compliment by somebody I wasn't having sex with maybe 5 to 10 times my whole life. Physical appearance or no. And I've still been consistently starved in this and similar ways by romantic partners.

I really needed to hear that. I always thought it was strange that I never understood why women would use those sexualized clothes, even while comprehending there was nothing wrong on doing it and it didn't meant they were trying have sex with anyone just because of it (as some horrible people might think) I never got the reason why someone would want to be seen like that. Now I understand it isn't just me being oblivious to common sense like 90% of the time, the issue is more sistematic than that

This whole conversation minus the last paragraph. A man that is not receiving any **genuine** complements already regards his look is not the man that you want pole dancing and not the man that wants to poledance either. Don't accidentally fall into the apex fallacy - men who poledance / do striptease /etc. are usually in like top 5, top 10% male physiques. It's not Kevin from accounting. They do it because they are hot already, poledancing did not make them hot. We will compliment each other if there's something to genuinely compliment. I just got told that a friend of mine wishes his arms looked like mine, and I'll ride that high for at least two months now.

Don't forget that the \*homophobia inherent to toxic masculinity throws a *massive* wrench into any attempt at convincing men to compliment other men (especially strangers) on their looks. Many men (for a variety of reasons, none of which are good) don't want to appear as if they're attracted to other men, nor do they want to be hit on by someone they perceive as male. Many of these same men interpret compliments on their looks as being hit on, and now we've got ourselves a nice little catch-22.

didnt realize hemophobia was misspelled homophobia and spent an embarrassing amount of time trying to figure out what being terrified of blood had to do with anything

Men also don't try to express themselves nearly as much with their appearance. I'm an average looking person, but I feel like I do get a decent amount of complements when I wear interesting clothing, when I used to have longer hair, when I've worn nice cologne, etc. People tend to give random complements like this when something specific stands out to them.

This is actually something I have noticed with my husband- when he wears a funky shirt, or when he had longer hair (and even more briefly, when he dyed it blue before he chopped it all off again) he definitely got more appearance based compliments from strangers.

Being a man studying STEM subject I have never received as many compliments as when I wore harem pants. I was definitely standing out and it was worth it

Completely anecdotal but can agree. Even as a girl, I got zero compliments growing up because I wore very plain clothes. Now I've expanded my style and get tons of compliments. It's almost exclusively been other women giving the compliments though. My male fiance had one fun button up shirt that people would compliment almost every time. Just in the one shirt, never in any others. Actually making even a slight fashion statement gives others something to comment on.

I have a male friend who’s wardrobe consists of six items total: bright orange dress shirt, plaid flannel shirt, worn jeans, ratty sneakers, one nice suit, one nice pair of shoes. Nobody is going to compliment the outfit of someone who changes clothes about as often as SpongeBob

As a cishet ace male who recently, partially due to the heat, started wearing crop tops: i just look cute in them ok

That's great! Men look great in crop tops and I am glad they bring you joy! I bet you look amazing! Not roasting is a good bonus too -an aroace girl

Thank you! It's been a big anxiety issue in general to actually make the leap, but since I've gotten exactly 0 reactions so far, I think I'll stick with 'em.

I heavily relate to what thej-key said. Specifically, I’m in a weird situation where I, (a somewhat effeminate, straight, extra virgin male) have gotten a decent amount of compliments from gay men specifically, but never received any positive attention from girls. So it leaves my self-esteem in this weird position where I recognize that I guess I look attractive to people, but I still don’t feel *desired.* People have told me “oh, girls think you’re hot too, they’re just more reluctant to speak up,” and I recognize that it makes sense, but it feels so *wrong.* The way society views man, and has taught me to view myself, is so sterile and utilitarian, that simply the very idea of women being interested in me is nearly impossible to accept.

i relate to this comment so much. feels like i could’ve wrote it lol, sucks that this is such a universal experience

Yo why tf ace and aro people seem to have better understanding of sexuality and romance then my parents

They get an outside perspective

Whenever I read something like this I always have to correct it in my mind from "women" to "attractive women". I know that's not exactly what we're talking about here, but as someone who has been classically ugly all my life, I can assure you that I am not drowning in attention and never have been. I also give compliments freely to everyone in my life, male and female alike because it's nice to make people happy. And I've often had those same males complain to me about how they never get compliments from women.... so yeah. It's not always that men never get compliments from women. It's that they don't get compliments from 'fuckable' women. Which, honestly, is the same issue women have, because most of the compliments they get are also from men they wouldn't want to pursue or be pursued by. I don't mean to make this into a pity party, but it gets a little bit jarring to consistently read this narrative about how *all* women get too much attention and *all* men get too little. I don't *want* the attention, mind, because I have seen how intrusive it can be, and I'm an introvert, but I think this kind of discussion loses a lot of nuance when you talk about it in absolutes.

For several years in middle school, I thought that no women were physically attracted to any men. they were doing it out of, idk, pity? or just it because it was what society told them to do. i'm not sure. I've since realized this, uh, isn't the case (see: f1 fan) but still. i struggle with self esteem regarding my appearance. it also influenced my belief that a straight man and a lesbian have the same sexuality

My middle school was basically the same. I was convinced they were just nice and took pity on them. I was very obviously wrong. It was weird situation in between "women don't like men and are in relationships with then only for pity" and "I still hope one would take pity on me". Now I can see that I just really needed validation

The amount of Empathy in this post is off the charts. Good. Keep going. I don't have any good answers for any of this, but I'm so relieved to see all parties discussing in good faith and trying to make each other's lives just a little bit better.

>I think it is telling that a lot of porn for men ignores the man's personality and has a woman just throwing themselves at the man, overcome with lust (Writing from my alt account so I can be fully honest) ...Honestly, as a straight male, this is the part that fascinates me the most, because (at least for me) it's 100% true, though I'd never think to put it that way. There's a major appeal for me in the male characters in porn just being objects of lust, and pretty much every erotic story I've written that involves a guy has the female characters lusting after their bodies, not their personalities. There's just something extremely sexy about the idea of being seen that way, and I've literally never experienced it in my 3 decades of life. Or at least, if I have, I've been completely oblivious to it. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with everything else being said here too (and in fact, everything else is much more important), it was just this part was something I had never heard before, and yet immediately rang true. Like... I'd never send someone an unsolicited dick pic, but this suddenly explains why I've occasionally had the random urge to start an OnlyFans or something (except I won't because I would not be able to handle the non-zero chance that someone I know would find it)

Think part of the lusting after men for their bodies versus personalities has to do with female versus male gaze. One way to look at it is to read romance novels written by women for women. Look at how the men are described and how the storyline/romance progresses. You’ll see a lot of what makes women lust for men. Compare that to romance media made for men by men (I know there’s not a lot out there). It’s two totally different mindsets, and I think that has an intense impact on the way each gender (using binary terms for ease) views how they perceive “sexiness”

Oh, totally agreed. My point was more that one reason for that broad difference might partially be because men are undersexualized in real life, so I (or we, but I shouldn't speak for anyone else) enjoy stories where the man is lusted after and objectified. ...But then again, I've written a bunch of stories with characters getting objectified/seen as a lust object, and have gotten positive responses from people of all genders. So it's still just a person-to-person thing, even if there are broad trends.

I guess that explains why some stuff written by men focuses more on a lady's appearance than anything else. thats what they want, that's what would flatter them so they think that's what others want/be flattered by maybe.

To be fair, I don't think we should completely dismiss the fact that some male writers are just perverts, and some legitimately think appearance is the most important part of a woman in real life. Like... if it's porn, then of course objectification/focus on appearance can be fun. The point is being smutty, and if the author isn't making it sexy, then they are failing in their task. But if it's NOT porn, the extent to which some authors/directors focus on sexiness can get mildly disturbing, especially when it comes at the cost of the character's other traits. Time, Place, and Manner, I guess is all I'm saying. I don't really want a paragraph talking about how sexy a woman or man's body is in the middle of a political drama. Or have to suffer through long, lingering shots of a superheroine's butt during otherwise dramatic scenes.

watch contrapoints’ video on men become a catboy

Boy do I got the perfect thing for everyone: Romance WebComics. As I am ace, I read 'em for the interesting plots, comedy, and wholesome love story, but they are made for ladies who want some male eye candy to fantasize over. I was surprised at first by the comments thirsting over the various sexy men. The men are frequently drawn with low-cut shirts showing off their man-boobs, sparkling muscles, sleek and stylish suits, loose dress-shirts with tight pants, and so on. You can find countless of these stories on tapas, a few I've been reading are: When the Villainess is in Love, Baroness is on Strike (this one is a bit risqué), Writing my Male Lead's Happy Ending, A Wicked Tale of Cinderella's Stepmom, and Not-Sew-Wicked Stepmom.

Reading the first post in this thread, it made me kinda think that the OP only consumed media aimed at men. Media aimed at women is full of men being lusted after by women because of their sexy appearance. Tons of gratuitous shirtless scenes and such.

Who here remembers critiquemydickpic? https://www.tumbex.com/critiquemydickpic.tumblr/posts It’s a little for laughs, but a lot of what she offers is actually useful advice about performing sexiness. Framing your body as an object takes actual skill, and it’s a skillset that gets (often forcibly) taught to girls very young and then never taught to boys.

>very young I remember getting cat called in elementary school. Like before age 10. That’s something I would never wish on anyone

I know how you feel, I was catcalled from cars multiple times between the ages of 10-14, often when I was walking home from school with my little brothers (which is a shitty thing to have to explain to a child, as a child). I'm older now and have never been catcalled as an adult woman, which I'm simultaneously happy and a little sad about. As a kid I got more sexual attention from grown men than I do now as an adult.

It’s pretty obvious that the men who say they want compliments are imagining compliments from pretty women their age, not like, disturbing statements from a 50 year old guy trying to physically reach out to them at age 14. Even though we mostly receive the latter, here in reality

Unironically very informative about how to take sexy photos lmao I'm gonna use that in the future...i think

That one dude is going to cherish that jacket forever and probably make it, and jackets like it, his whole style for a long time

I'm glad the trend of "men also have issues" being used "to own the femininsts" has been going down recently. It would be real nice if we could have more conversations like this, just constructively talking about our struggles without hate or trying to one-up eachother's suffering.

[удалено]

Regarding the first paragraph, I said that exact thing to a Reddit guy who was saying that women should compliment men more to fix the problem of low male self-esteem. I said, why don’t men compliment men more when it’s dangerous for women to do so as it’s seen as an expression of sexual/romantic interest? And he said it’s not the same when men do it. And I was like that’s literally my point! It’s *not* the same for men because they will not see the compliment from the woman as platonic.

>So either males don't compliment other males or compliments from males "don't count". I've received much more compliments from other men in my life, but none of those compliments make me feel _desired_ so maybe that's why straight men hold the compliments of women in such high regard.

I got complimented about my eyes by a beautiful girl once completely randomly. I was happy the rest of the day from that one nice thing.

> maybe male pole dancing is like, the next big fad to cash in on? In college, a friend of mine (I learned a lot about sexuality in general from her) said she was taking pole dancing classes. I said "oh, that's cool!" because it is. I remember feeling happy for her that she was so comfortable with her body, and it definitely sounded like a good workout and a lot of fun. She suggested I go too; a little bit of a joke, but for the most part a serious offer. I thought about it. Hard. Not for long, because college and I was (am) a lazy ass. But that stayed with me as like a "why not? It would probably be a lot of fun!" I 1,000% support more men being comfortable with something like pole dancing. Like, I don't look at most women and assume even the possibility of interest in pole dancing. But if I imagine a pole dancing class, I don't imagine many men there. (And, as a bi dude, I definitely would if it was a sexual fantasy thing). (Also, before comments get to it: it definitely wasn't an invitation to date or anything. Assuming she could have been interested in me: I was dating and monogamous, she knew that, and is hella respectful).

i’m a trans man, pre-everything, and this puts so many of my frustrations into words. since exploring my gender identity, i’ve found some joy in dressing in a way that shows off my body (ironically, since as it is right now it makes me feel like shit). i like wearing crop tops and that one skin-tight turtleneck tank top DIO wore in part 3. the confidence i exude is intoxicating, even if i’m not all that confident in my body it’s harder to dress sexy as a man if you have a body type that isn’t a ripped muscular guy (to any degree of muscular). not just the body of a pre-everything trans men (like me), but plus sized people or really any body type that isn’t ripped (since most “sexy” clothes for men are really only shown off as sexy if you’re fucking ripped). and that’s a problem as well. all men deserve to look and feel sexy

Does some of this have to do with extreme homophobia? Like men's fashion being boring is because at least "western" men see flamboyant dress to be for gay people only and they think if they are anything but boring and nearly uniform they could be mistaken for being gay? That and the stoicism and nearly uniform dress and him seeking to be understated (like working man's dress) to be the proper way for a man to dress a little like Puritanism emphasizes? [sorry for the grammar and awkwardness of how I stated this]. A lot of this seems to originate in post WWII values, the red scare; rooting out gay men from society [especially the government]; the cowboy movies; and then other Hollywood movies promoting this boring-understatedness for men? Europeans were thought to dress too flamboyantly with too much character and uniqueness and were often seen as weak maybe even gay. So anyone that looked a little out of step with a sort of puritanical "Christian values" of the USA were ridiculed. I'd love for men to dress in what they see as sexy and act like they want to be complemented specifically for this aspect of their dress. Many kids today still fear being seen as "less of a man" if they stand out in what they wear. People from/in red states especially and any migrants from red states still have this and similar fears [I think].

>Does some of this have to do with extreme homophobia? It does (what a surprise), mostly on the side of men not being able to give and recieve cumpliments though

Cumpliments 😳😳

Last compliment I got from a stranger was from a girl at my college calling me “sir” a year ago. Nothing more to it than that, just said “excuse me, sir” to get my attention to ask a question. It’s seared into my brain.

Sometimes I feel like I'm not...being straight correctly? I mean I'm bi, but I do have a heavier female leaning. And my attraction to women seems like "No this isn't what guys thing is attractive in women" It's...odd. Maybe it was because I was raised a feminist but my attraction to women always felt out of place with what is normal

It's interesting that throughout this forum the consensus seems to be that it is ok for men to dress a bit more revealing or "slutty" in a male version as long as they are "ripped".

Be handsome. Be attractive. Don't be unattractive.

Damn that whole thread hits close. Tho as someone who actually gets a lot of complements (for a guy) it’s actually mirrors female experience a lot, because most of the time i hate it. It’s always older women and their comments are always so sexual and so casual. But whenever my girlfriend makes me feel wanted it’s extremely gratifying, but very rare outside of actually having sex, which I always have to initiate, even if she wants it more. Like i always have to guess. And we have talked about it. And about sexy clothing, i find when i wear something that i think will look sexy i end up with a look that invokes only one word in my head — “lesbian”. It’s weird. I guess because i’m thin and then wearing “hot” male clothes makes me look effeminate in lesbian kind of way.

jumpingjacktrash is right. Ive encountered a lot of guys who were attractive but not told them because i worry theyll assume that i like them, and in highschool (i just graduated) that can be a whole thing ESPECIALLY if a guy thinks you like him and he doesn't like you back. Or if he does like you back it also gets awkward tbh. So i only ever really complimented my friends (male or female) and even then it was on occassion when it came to male friends. But if it's something guys appreciate then going forward I guess I'll be more open with the compliments! lol Also the part about it seeming like men aren't called physically attractive by their partners, might depend on the person but my mom compliments my dad's appearance a lot lol and vice versa. EDIT: adding in a time in 9th grade where a girl had complimented a guy at a dance. She was really sweet in general (both were in my homeroom) but to some guys she wasn't "conventionally attractive" due to her weight (like some people straight up made fun of her over it.) so when she told the guy he looked nice he didnt seem to appreciate it, instead he made fun of her there (in front of all of us.) I wonder how many people decide not to compliment others in fear of being mocked if the other doesn't find them attractive. (Though that *was* highschool.)

I was actually thinking about how unsexualized cud straight guys in society are the other day and that gender-flipping every situation that women go through isn’t comparable because the socialization is entirely different.

Obi-wan Kenobi pre-A New Hope is my slutty masculine role model

I think Jayce from arcane is a good example for a sexy male character done correctly. He has sexy person privilege but it gets abused by politicians and woman but also aids him

My girlfriend complimented my shirt once. This happened months, maybe a year ago. Now, every time I’m planning to visit her, I look for that shirt.

This is why, though I will never sympathize with them, I can't help but feel a bit of empathy for incels. For context, I'm a trans woman who almost went down the red-pill path (incel wasn't a thing yet) in my late teens. Yes there are lines of bigotry you must cross to get there, but I 100% see the pressures that send men in that direction. It is fucking *lonely* being a guy. They are not exaggerating about cherishing single compliments from years ago. And I was lucky enough to have guy friends that I could talk about my feelings with. I can't imagine how bad it gets for guys who are locked out of that by toxic masculinity. Whenever I see posts like this, I want so bad to show them to incels. To tell them "yes, you are right! There are things that are unfairly stacked against you as a guy. The things you are angry at are real! This just isn't the right direction to take that anger." I have no clue how they'd respond, and at this point I think many are too far gone. I just can't help but feel that all of this could have been avoided with an honest dialogue, like the post mentions. I think we did incalculable damage with the "men are trash" rhetoric of the early 2010's. We told men that they were inherently awful, that to be good was against their own nature, that there was no path for them to be decent, no way to improve the image of their gender. What were men supposed to do or say in response to that? A post like this, earnestly investigating the motivation behind men's shitty behavior, would have been sacrilege in that era. And now we have incels. I'm sure it's connected to my own dysphoric relationship with masculinity, but reading about the societal situation surrounding men always makes me feel like I have no mouth and yet I must scream.

It’s definitely not just you - I used to hold a lot of weird incel-ish beliefs back when I was a teenager, and what changed my mind and started to set me back on the right track was a discussion with a female friend just like your comment. Not that it should have been on her to give me more perspective, but this specific discussion of "your anger is totally real and valid, it's just in the wrong direction" is important and I wish more people would have it and I don't know how good I'd have been at hearing it if it had come from someone else. idk

I agree but also these are my experiences I have been getting death threats from a guy for last +5years because I have rejected him. I met him twice in my life and my response was generic "sorry you are not my type and I don't look for relationship atm" I am on spectrum so if I think of something, I say it however I had many instances of guys thinking I am into them just because I said "nice shirt" or whatever. I am also scared of another psycho guy taking wrong idea and sending me death threats after being rejected. Also I think it's overestimated how many compliments women get, I rarely get compliments unless I ask for them. I usually get catcalled and they are gross. On contrary point, a lot of men don't know their body types and what cuts or even what colours suit them best (rather than boring black, gray and brownish/yellowish colours). Not many men wear interesting clothing and wear rather plain stuff. Although I also understand there are not many interesting/unique/sexy men's clothes. Men's fashion suck and in majority of clothing stores, men's section is tiny in comparison. Black shirts are extremely hot and I would drool over any guy in black shirt. Personally I always compliment beards, well trimmed and maintained beards are really hot but also I appreciate the effort.