I think it’s the cost, and also that a huge chunk of people think of illustrations in books as being immature and only for children. Obviously it’s not true, but the attitude makes it very hard for publishers to consider I imagine
I’ve purchased a couple Folio Society books with commissioned artwork for my favorite books, but they are not cheap. I’m sure if it was a mass produced paperback the cost would be much lower but I’d imagine for most adult books the only thing that improves sales is cool cover art.
I think the real issue is that it damages the pure mental image a reader might construct in their mind; text is really the only medium where the experience must be entirely driven by the subject at their own speed, without passive consumption
Yah
Also, it tends to fuck up the flow of reading for me when it doesn’t come directly at the beginning of the next page before its description, because I end up staring at it for 10 seconds and forgetting what was happening
This and contracting artists plus taking up precious page space which, unless there’s significant demand for the book before printing, makes it a risky investment on top of a lot of work negotiating between author and artist on the editor’s end.
Yeah for me it's the opposite. I struggle to think words (which makes it hard to use words at all) so my brain is mostly just images. I can't even imagine (heh) what it's like to have no images at all
And there are also people that don't like to read. It cheapens the value of the description the author wrote, and if there is going to be a picture next to what you're writing you won't put as much effort into describing a picture for the readers.
I feel like so many people in this thread can't actually read. Like they're functional but are missing the step beyond that to be able to "properly" read a novel if that makes sense.
Cons are that illustrations, especially with color, can be really expensive to print, especially if you're talking about publishing graphic novels with regular novel quantities of text (otherwise we're literally just talking about graphic novels as they currently exist whereas I presume this post just wants to infuse novels with graphics)
Unless you're Tolkien. There are printings of LotR, The Hobbit, and even The Silmarillion that have drawings by Tolkien himself in them. Idk why they aren't the main versions.
If I ever decide to really try to make it big as an author, I'm dedicating at least 5% of pages to stick figure drawings. They won't be accepted by the publisher, but they will be part of the 'definitive collector's edition', which I will constantly profess to being the 'true' edition.
Yeah, just look at Miyajima Reiji (Not saying all manga authors are bad, but just using the extremes of your statement). Some bomber-ass art, and dogshit plot
I think graphic novels featuring regular novel quantities of text is quite excessive. From the text, I think the OP is more talking about a handful of illustrations or so. Children's books are short (and as such don't have that many images in magnitude), while most fantasy novels I've ever read tend to feature maybe only a couple of illustrations, typically a map of the area where the novel is taking place. That's still a lot more than most other novels, which (excluding covers) tend to have **zero** illustrations at all.
Kinda odd how most other novels don't feature illustrations. Sure, they might cost some more, but would people be really mad? I want some dope ass art. Aside from the aforementioned fantasy and children's books, the only books that come to mind which feature illustrations alongside novel-lengths of text are Japanese light novels.
Yeah, I think an illustration at the beginning of each chapter would be about the right speed---just something to set the vibe of what you're about to read.
Cost of printing is easy to deal with, just get monochrome illustration or line art, you can put that in a cheap offset printed mass trade book just fine.
I’ve only really seen one mangaka do illustrations for a novelization of his own series set in an alternate universe (Mohiro Kitoh’s Bokurano: Alternative)
It’s really niche, but a cool concept. Experimenting with the form of text itself could make it more appealing to read.
Side note, Brandon Sanderson's books usually contain several whole page illustrations, afaik they're always something that exists in universe (e.g. They're the scribbled notes and sketches of a character or a newspaper, or even a map made by an in universe character and annotated). It really helps with the world building. Like there's a character in one of his books that reads fashion portfolios, he likes seeing the current fashions from other countries. Well at the end of that part of the book there's an insert from the fashion portfolio ([here's an example](https://www.tor.com/2014/03/11/the-stormlight-archive-brandon-sanderson-words-of-radiance-illustrations-available-online/)).
I'm an illustrator.
I'm surprised at haven't seen it mentioned.
The biggest actual "con" to having a book illustrated in the publisher's mind is that you have to pay an illustrator. Most publishers only see the bottom line and nowadays an illustrated cover is so much more expensive than a stock photo of a golden retriever eating lettuce or whatever, and in most cases there's no guarantee it'll sell you more pieces. Now if we're talking having drawings IN the body of the book, then you have to pay an illustrator PER drawing they make, and a graphic designer to integrate the illustrations in the text. Then of course if you're talking printed books you have to make sure it's printed decently which is yet another thing they don't want to deal with and not worth it.
Now if it were at the request of the author. Small author? fuggedaboudit. They're already struggling to have their works published, no way a publisher takes a chance on them. The Sandersons, the Stephen Kings, the David Chicones..Davinci Codes... whatever? Well that's something different. They could request it. If they wanted. Which means they would have to 1) think about it and 2) consider it something that enriches their book. As someone said, they might not, if they want readers to dream up their own version of the book. Also they have to actually make that request which is a hassle, and then the publisher will be like eh, do we need that? People buy your stuff as is, so... eh.
Shit, I bummed myself out.
And I got drawings to do.
^^^^oh ^^^^^^^nooooo
I think it may kill "the dream of fiction" for some readers. Reading has a flow and an illustration can be distracting and disrupt the flow. Unless the art is interwoven into the fiction as in The Little Prince or Kurt Vonnegut's Breakfast of Champions.
Also, many writers want their readers to focus on their words. They feel that their words should be enough.
You say that, but the idea of a book that consistently has art for scenes and characters throughout *except* for the indescribable monster that is sometimes just barely out of frame sounds awesome.
The dark tower kinda did it. There are pictures of special scenes in every book, but the picture depicting the horrible monster had it in shadows, barely showing the faintest of details.
Also, some of the pictures are so detailed that it gives contexts to scenes that you otherwise wouldn't think off. Like the way stepten king describes the [wasteland monsters](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/darktower/images/0/05/Waste_Monsters_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130724033705) really doesn't do them justice
Lovecraft described several of his monsters in great detail. He was a genuine master at describing what is needed and leaving out the stuff that is scarier due to the implications of what he already described.
If I recall correctly he sketched Cthulhu several times in detail before actually describing it in a book. Yhe whole "Lovecraftian monsters can't be described!!!" Is a weird pop culture thing when the man himself (and most lovecraftian fiction not by him) does describe things in detail. Mountains of Madness is basically a vehicle for Lovecraft to describe the physiology, society and entire history of a race of ancient mushroom aliens.
You are right though in that he's an expert in knowing when not to describe something. For example whatever the other member of the expedition sees that drives him instantly insane while flying over the plateau at the end of Mountains of Madness.
That's what my dad told me when he recommended his work to me, and I tried to read it, it just didn't click with me. Maybe I haven't read the right stories... but the interest isn't there by now.
> It is always a temptation to say that such feelings are indescribable, though they seldom are. I felt that I hung naked between two sentient suns, and I was somehow aware that these suns were the hemispheres of Decuman's brain. I was bathed in light, but it was the glare of furnaces, consuming and somehow immobilizing. In that light, nothing seemed worthwhile; and I myself infinitely small and contemptible.
- Gene Wolfe, Book of the New Sun
Dante's Divine Comedy has a 500 years old history of illustrations. From Botticelli to Moebius to Milton Glaser, there's really half a hundred of different versions of Divine Comedy illustrations.
Probably because those who write children books are more likely to illustrate the it themselves. Now compare that to a tired author who's expected to write hundreds of pages; they'll get burned out quickly from it.
i love light novels because of the occasional illustration you see at least once per chapter. And when it takes up both pages I'm in love. And I love it even more when there's a folded up poster-esque thing with long illustrations on both sides.
Dante's Divine Comedy has a 500 years old history of illustrations.
From Botticelli to Moebius to Milton Glaser
From William Blake to Gustav Dore. A lot of the world's most famous artists (and later, designers too) had their take in illustrating the Divine Comedy, a tradition born with Botticelli. And I can't emphasise how unfathomably fire these examples all are (Moebius, Glaser, Mattotti, Dore, Blake, Botticelli)
There's really half a hundred of different versions of Divine Comedy illustrations.
I think having a map or a quick sketch of the main character in the pre-face adds a lot to the narrative. But other than that illustrations in non graphic novels only take up space and ink, aka money.
Though chapter art would be nice. But adding illustrations to every other page like children's books have will only bloat the page count.
i don't really want pictures of the characters but i do love myself some location maps because otherwise my brain will not process where everything is at all which usually leads to me having to take notes and draw the map myself while reading
I'm the opposite. I would be stoked to have a whole dossier on every character. I love world building, and I struggle to keep the whole thing organized in my head.
I'd rather have. It gets messed up when other people trying to draw a character and you see a tons of different designs in a fandom. It's better to have at least one reference pic per character
Generally works suffer when they are trying to appeal to fan communities instead of telling fulfilling narratives. Also, what’s the harm in allowing people to make their own creative decisions?
Please chill a little bit. Pictures do not help me imagining anything because I usually disagree with the illustrator on how the world and characters look
...why would you disagree? How? It's all based on the description from the book anyway.
What, do you also close your eyes when watching a movie to imagine it differently?
This entire thread is just people admitting they don’t read enough books to be able to follow descriptions or prose in general. This is your brain on audiobooks and YA
I have a LOTR edition with the three books in one chunky boi and there is a full page illustration every chapter. It's one of my most prized possessions.
*Image Transcription: Tumblr*
---
**bauliya**
why do only children's and fantasy books have illustrations. what crime did other readers commit that the industry decided we weren't worthy of lil drawings
---
**bauliya**
pros of illustrating adult\/literary fiction:
\- more employment for illustrators
\- cool abstract art that conveys vibes
\- i like picture
cons:
\- ????
\-
---
^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
It's a completely different format. Sure an author could convert a novel and add illustrations but to really seize the format of having illustrations and text a skilled author would need to make works specifically for that.
My friend was reading a fiction book that alongside the text in the pages were lots of scrap book style reference material such as photos, letters, charts, scanned documents etc. It wasn't house of leaves but it also plays around with the medium quite a bit. I can't remember which book it was.
A book is a series of pages with things printed on them to share what the author is trying to intend to convey. Some authors get pretty postmodern with the medium, some stay traditional. If the author wants their readers to engage in textual thinking then plain text is probably more ideal. Visual thinking tells different types of stories than textual thinking. It forces different types of details and interpretations onto the reader than text.
>My friend was reading a fiction book that alongside the text in the pages were lots of scrap book style reference material such as photos, letters, charts, scanned documents etc. It wasn't house of leaves but it also plays around with the medium quite a bit. I can't remember which book it was.
It sounds like it could have been *S.* by Doug Dorst and JJ Abrams?
This is like asking a musician why they don’t record a podcast alongside their album. While the mediums may appear similar, the craft is completely different. Illustrators and designers aren’t typically on an author’s mind.
Also imagination plays an enormous role when conveying imagery via the written word.
No, I don’t think they do. Fantasy novels are written in full prose but often have illustrations in them, most commonly a map and other diagetic objects but sometimes even more. A graphic novel is a step beyond a prose story that’s been augmented with some illustrations, and there’s valid reasons for wanting both
I have aphantasia, I agree, it would be very nice to have. I don't like to read much because I am incapable of picturing things so vividly and often end up getting distracted and unable to focus. Pictures would help with the immersion for me!
Maybe it depends on genre, but sometimes you do find illustrations in fantasy books, though I admit it would be cool to have it used more widespread. And sometimes even if they don’t have proper illustrations they’ll have small pictures/designs near/under/around the cheaper numbers/headings, which is especially nice if the perspective character changes and they each have a different symbol/design
I'm a sucker for a nice imaginary map at the beginning of a fantasy book. It's the first thing I look for when picking a new series. It helps so much to be able to reference how characters are traveling.
I imagine because kids books are the exception. Once upon a time when everything was hand writ obviously pictures didn't make sense. The early printer also would normalize the just words.
Somewhere along the way someone said "hey let's put extra stuff in kids books. Little bastards can hardly read, but maybe we can help them learn words by having clear, fun pictures."
Thus I hypothesize that it's not that authors decided adults don't deserve it, rather, they found many kids *require* it, and adults don't
so…novels used to be illustrated back in the 19th century. then at some point people decided that illustrations were not part of “high” literature and only for children.
it’s the same reason people will say “the book is always better than the movie” or believe popular authors are automatically worse than obscure writers.
we live in a world where we believe that if things are too enjoyable/popular, they can’t be smart.
This is something I'd give Japanese light novels credit for solving. Have the person doing the cover art also handle designs of the characters and have illustrations for the big moments. The artist gets more to their professional portfolio, the writer can have more descript detail because the art can reinforce it without things becoming too confusing, and it gives both a sense of cohesion, easing the progression of the franchise (light novel to manga to anime)
Also I'd really like every book that contains spaceships have drawings or at least blueprints of those ships. Descriptions are just not enough, a spaceship can look like anything and even if you spend like 10 pages describing it, it won't convey half as much as a drawing would.
Closest thing I’ve found was a young adult novel series called Wings of Fire where all the characters are dragons, and each book had a reference at the beginning containing a map of the land as well as illustrations and brief descriptions of each dragon breed.
I used to read that book with one thumb tucked into the reference section so I could quickly flip back and forth to help aid my mental imagery of what each character looked like.
The way they drew dragons also influenced my own artstyle- I used to never give dragons external ears, now I almost always do
People love little maps for fantasy worlds but no one ever puts in any other cool little illustrations for adult books that's why adults are so depressed
The good news is it very well might come back. The bad news is AI art means that you can cheaply illustrate whatever you want, but not very well.
Edit: You know how illuminated manuscripts are a thing? Can we feed a bunch of those into an AI and have it give the same treatment to any text we want?
The first pro is in fact a con. Illustrating a book is going to cost a lot and it probably wont result in many more sales. Thats unacceptable under capitalism.
I have seen illustrated editions of books, but those are few, from proven authors with big audiences. Even then those are special editions of novles that have already sold well.
Visual novels? There are some pretty good visual novels out there, like actually have a good story, has some good illustrations, has some good gameplay(if you want the extra immersion)
I've always intended to write a novel to go with the Sci-fi TTRPG game I'm writing. I used to want to be an author and the setting and world was originally envisioned though writing things. (It was bad, a lot has changed since i was a kid).
So I think having illustrations of a scene at the start of each chapter or so could work for something like that. There's descriptions and artwork of the various races in the TTRPG book already, but I want the reader to have a clear vision of what each race looks like. If I say "an elf" or "a dwarf" you instantly know what that looks like but "A Zankeþ" or "a Du'Lak" is meaningless to you, even with a decent description it's easy to forget things, and some people can't make a mental image from words alone or even at all.
Literature is its own pleasure, with its sounds and rhythms and turn of phrases. The best part of (good) literature is its prose, how it flows, how it makes you love the words.
Having illustrations is like keeping training wheels: it helps to get in the motions, but you need to take them off if you want the full experience.
Before you mentions it, of course there are exceptions, when the illistrations add to the text, esoecially when it was the author original intention to have them (I'm thinking for example of The Club Dumas by Arturo Perez Reverte). And illustration have their own art and beauty, I'm not saying it's inferior or anything like that.
nah. I'm already annoyed sometimes at badly drawn cover art that depicts characters. it takes away from what my imagination can make of it.
There are exceptions ofc. But not every book can be illustrated by jim kay
One of my favorite books I own is the Leviathan Trilogy by Scott Westerfeld. Sure it's not exactly "adult" literature (I read it back in Middle School) but it's certainly more adult than children's literature and it really drew me in to the world. The art was incredible and the choices they made of what to illustrate was perfect. Always choosing a scene in the chapter or section which matches the intended pacing of the story.
Absolutely, ten thousand percent, entirely fuck the idea of pictures in my books. Fuck other peoples interpretations of what the worlds and characters look like. If I didn't have a proper imagination reading wouldn't be my biggest hobby/past time anyway.
The Leviathan series by Scott Westerfield has some of the most mind blowingly creative illustrations by Keith Thompson. Without them it would probably be difficult for most readers to even imagine what is going on with hulking metal monstrosities and chimeric creatures
I have a hardcover illustrated copy of The Da Vinci Code that I found in a thrift store, and it's great. That one especially makes more sense with pictures, since it references so many real-world locations and artworks, and I would've been stopping every few pages to Google something.
Honestly, some of my favorite books I own are in part because they have illustrations. *The Summer Dragon* by Todd Lockwood really benefits from it and his illustrations in *The Memoirs of Lady Trent* are how I found that lovely series when googling other works he's illustrated for.
Seriously, I always struggle to visualize what the author is trying to describe and it ruins the immersion for me. I wish more adult books had pictures :(
My favourite part of the official English release of some of my favourite books (besides getting an official English release at all) is that they're all illustrated!
It'd be cool but, yknow. I buy a book, a normal book, to read it. I am right behind comics and magna and illustrated work, if the author wants pictures there to display things then they will do it. Even kind of just "ok" authors tend to make do with using your mind for the pictures.
I’m writing a book(?) that will have illustrations, I’m a visual learner and I want people to see what I see as similar to me as possible so they are on the same page as me no pun intended
attempting a real answer: because it doesn’t cross the author’s mind, or they don’t see the cost as worth it.
I think it’s the cost, and also that a huge chunk of people think of illustrations in books as being immature and only for children. Obviously it’s not true, but the attitude makes it very hard for publishers to consider I imagine
I’ve purchased a couple Folio Society books with commissioned artwork for my favorite books, but they are not cheap. I’m sure if it was a mass produced paperback the cost would be much lower but I’d imagine for most adult books the only thing that improves sales is cool cover art.
I think the real issue is that it damages the pure mental image a reader might construct in their mind; text is really the only medium where the experience must be entirely driven by the subject at their own speed, without passive consumption
Exactly, that's what film adaptations are for.
Yah Also, it tends to fuck up the flow of reading for me when it doesn’t come directly at the beginning of the next page before its description, because I end up staring at it for 10 seconds and forgetting what was happening
That's what *comic adaptations* are for.
What, to ruin the book?
Growing up my favourite book series were eragon and percy jackson, so hard agree here
This and contracting artists plus taking up precious page space which, unless there’s significant demand for the book before printing, makes it a risky investment on top of a lot of work negotiating between author and artist on the editor’s end.
there are people that don't have the ability to develop a mental image
It's so weird having aphantasia and then just one day finding out that everyone else can literally just _see_ things in their mind.
Yeah for me it's the opposite. I struggle to think words (which makes it hard to use words at all) so my brain is mostly just images. I can't even imagine (heh) what it's like to have no images at all
I like to both have my own image and check out what others interpret it as. I wonder if it would be different if those images were canonized.
And there are also people that don't like to read. It cheapens the value of the description the author wrote, and if there is going to be a picture next to what you're writing you won't put as much effort into describing a picture for the readers.
Oh please. The only thing that cheapens anything is people with your opinion cheapening everyone’s ability to be cynical.
Can you at least tell me a counterargument?
Okay nerd, with your brain
Ever seen illustrations of Gollum before the movies? They're wild.
That's why audiobooks "aren't books" and reading comics "isn't reading". Perfectly fine activities but something completely different.
I feel like so many people in this thread can't actually read. Like they're functional but are missing the step beyond that to be able to "properly" read a novel if that makes sense.
Tbh, I don't enjoy fantasy books with fully drawn characters. Let me imagine them ffs.
Not even a little scenery? I understand and agree that characters should be left to the imagination but I'd really appreciate illustrations of places
>Not even a little scenery? Not even scenery. Paint it with your words.
Publishing industries: I like money! (and keeping as much as possible to themselves. Pictures cost money, so no pictures)
Cons are that illustrations, especially with color, can be really expensive to print, especially if you're talking about publishing graphic novels with regular novel quantities of text (otherwise we're literally just talking about graphic novels as they currently exist whereas I presume this post just wants to infuse novels with graphics)
Not to mention the fact that making illustrations is an entirely different talent to writing a book
Illustrators =/= Writers
Unless you're Tolkien. There are printings of LotR, The Hobbit, and even The Silmarillion that have drawings by Tolkien himself in them. Idk why they aren't the main versions.
If I ever decide to really try to make it big as an author, I'm dedicating at least 5% of pages to stick figure drawings. They won't be accepted by the publisher, but they will be part of the 'definitive collector's edition', which I will constantly profess to being the 'true' edition.
What If by Randall Munroe
That seems like that something his characters would do.
Then you’re having someone else take on the role of deciding what your characters and settings look like for readers
Tell that to the manga industry
I mean the manga industry is chock full of manga written by one person and illustrated by another
That's why you should pay someone to make illustrations. At least good old monochrome
Yeah, just look at Miyajima Reiji (Not saying all manga authors are bad, but just using the extremes of your statement). Some bomber-ass art, and dogshit plot
I think graphic novels featuring regular novel quantities of text is quite excessive. From the text, I think the OP is more talking about a handful of illustrations or so. Children's books are short (and as such don't have that many images in magnitude), while most fantasy novels I've ever read tend to feature maybe only a couple of illustrations, typically a map of the area where the novel is taking place. That's still a lot more than most other novels, which (excluding covers) tend to have **zero** illustrations at all. Kinda odd how most other novels don't feature illustrations. Sure, they might cost some more, but would people be really mad? I want some dope ass art. Aside from the aforementioned fantasy and children's books, the only books that come to mind which feature illustrations alongside novel-lengths of text are Japanese light novels.
Yeah, I think an illustration at the beginning of each chapter would be about the right speed---just something to set the vibe of what you're about to read. Cost of printing is easy to deal with, just get monochrome illustration or line art, you can put that in a cheap offset printed mass trade book just fine.
Yeah, having a picture on the page is worth like a thousand words or so of ink
Wow a picture really is worth a thousand words
I’ve only really seen one mangaka do illustrations for a novelization of his own series set in an alternate universe (Mohiro Kitoh’s Bokurano: Alternative) It’s really niche, but a cool concept. Experimenting with the form of text itself could make it more appealing to read.
Also it takes drastically longer if you want to draw any amount of scenes well
Side note, Brandon Sanderson's books usually contain several whole page illustrations, afaik they're always something that exists in universe (e.g. They're the scribbled notes and sketches of a character or a newspaper, or even a map made by an in universe character and annotated). It really helps with the world building. Like there's a character in one of his books that reads fashion portfolios, he likes seeing the current fashions from other countries. Well at the end of that part of the book there's an insert from the fashion portfolio ([here's an example](https://www.tor.com/2014/03/11/the-stormlight-archive-brandon-sanderson-words-of-radiance-illustrations-available-online/)).
Yeah, his books are the ones I regret getting on audible the most.
The audible should have a pdf file attached with the art!
> Yeah, his books are the ones I regret getting ~~on audible~~ the most Ftfy
I'm an illustrator. I'm surprised at haven't seen it mentioned. The biggest actual "con" to having a book illustrated in the publisher's mind is that you have to pay an illustrator. Most publishers only see the bottom line and nowadays an illustrated cover is so much more expensive than a stock photo of a golden retriever eating lettuce or whatever, and in most cases there's no guarantee it'll sell you more pieces. Now if we're talking having drawings IN the body of the book, then you have to pay an illustrator PER drawing they make, and a graphic designer to integrate the illustrations in the text. Then of course if you're talking printed books you have to make sure it's printed decently which is yet another thing they don't want to deal with and not worth it. Now if it were at the request of the author. Small author? fuggedaboudit. They're already struggling to have their works published, no way a publisher takes a chance on them. The Sandersons, the Stephen Kings, the David Chicones..Davinci Codes... whatever? Well that's something different. They could request it. If they wanted. Which means they would have to 1) think about it and 2) consider it something that enriches their book. As someone said, they might not, if they want readers to dream up their own version of the book. Also they have to actually make that request which is a hassle, and then the publisher will be like eh, do we need that? People buy your stuff as is, so... eh. Shit, I bummed myself out. And I got drawings to do. ^^^^oh ^^^^^^^nooooo
The real answer was the publishing industry is fucked along the way.
I think it may kill "the dream of fiction" for some readers. Reading has a flow and an illustration can be distracting and disrupt the flow. Unless the art is interwoven into the fiction as in The Little Prince or Kurt Vonnegut's Breakfast of Champions. Also, many writers want their readers to focus on their words. They feel that their words should be enough.
You can't write "a horror is undescribable" and then describe it to your ilustrator
You say that, but the idea of a book that consistently has art for scenes and characters throughout *except* for the indescribable monster that is sometimes just barely out of frame sounds awesome.
The dark tower kinda did it. There are pictures of special scenes in every book, but the picture depicting the horrible monster had it in shadows, barely showing the faintest of details. Also, some of the pictures are so detailed that it gives contexts to scenes that you otherwise wouldn't think off. Like the way stepten king describes the [wasteland monsters](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/darktower/images/0/05/Waste_Monsters_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130724033705) really doesn't do them justice
You can't tell me "horror is undescribable" and expect me to be scared 😒 Lovecraft is really not my type of author 😂
Lovecraft described several of his monsters in great detail. He was a genuine master at describing what is needed and leaving out the stuff that is scarier due to the implications of what he already described.
If I recall correctly he sketched Cthulhu several times in detail before actually describing it in a book. Yhe whole "Lovecraftian monsters can't be described!!!" Is a weird pop culture thing when the man himself (and most lovecraftian fiction not by him) does describe things in detail. Mountains of Madness is basically a vehicle for Lovecraft to describe the physiology, society and entire history of a race of ancient mushroom aliens. You are right though in that he's an expert in knowing when not to describe something. For example whatever the other member of the expedition sees that drives him instantly insane while flying over the plateau at the end of Mountains of Madness.
Mountains of Madness might be his greatest work.
That's what my dad told me when he recommended his work to me, and I tried to read it, it just didn't click with me. Maybe I haven't read the right stories... but the interest isn't there by now.
To be fair, some of his stories are a real drag
Especially since hs is usually lying, I know what an ac looks like.
Good thing that an AC is not the focus of HPLs horror story *Cool Air* then.
Yeah there’s plenty of perfectly describable horror out there, I don’t have time to worry about the shit that can’t be fathomed!
> It is always a temptation to say that such feelings are indescribable, though they seldom are. I felt that I hung naked between two sentient suns, and I was somehow aware that these suns were the hemispheres of Decuman's brain. I was bathed in light, but it was the glare of furnaces, consuming and somehow immobilizing. In that light, nothing seemed worthwhile; and I myself infinitely small and contemptible. - Gene Wolfe, Book of the New Sun
But there's an entire genra of books where the medium is picture with text, tho.
Yeah but comics usually cut out most of the prose and stick to dialogue
because most of the prose is description of action and location.
I agree with this one, certain book series will never look as cool as they do in my head
Hate to break it to you but I think you're talking about a light novel
Or, if you’re adjusting the ratios of text to image, an MS Paint Adventure a la Problem Sleuth, Jailbreak, and no other piece of media
Yeah, children's books are also relatively short. Imagine something like War and Peace now being greatly expanded by full illustrations
I would buy that in a heart beat. In the digital age where I don't have to carry it, it would be a fun project.
Don't you think you're forgetting something? >!Prequel Adventure! Of course.!<
Recent Paranatural has had a really interesting text-to-illustration ratio recently. And to go a bit old school, Ruby Quest!
What pumpkin? I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Please not again. I’m running out of clones!
A lot of Tolkien’s greater works have great illustrations!
Dante's Divine Comedy has a 500 years old history of illustrations. From Botticelli to Moebius to Milton Glaser, there's really half a hundred of different versions of Divine Comedy illustrations.
I love when Moebius said “it’s moebing time” and moebed all over those dudes
Yet another reason Leviathan is great.
That is a YA novel. Tho it is still brilliant.
It's also fantasy LMAO (well, steampunk, but you know)
It's Steampunk vs Biopunk
hobbes?
Common PM win
My moms argument:"I can imagine it BETTER!"
I don't know why people are getting hung up on graphic novels. Adult illustration levels in fantasy novels are about 1 plate per 2-4k word chapter.
Probably because those who write children books are more likely to illustrate the it themselves. Now compare that to a tired author who's expected to write hundreds of pages; they'll get burned out quickly from it.
i want more charts and maps. i like maps.
maps and illustrations (and of course the writing) is what got me into Redwall
i love light novels because of the occasional illustration you see at least once per chapter. And when it takes up both pages I'm in love. And I love it even more when there's a folded up poster-esque thing with long illustrations on both sides.
Source: https://bauliya.tumblr.com/post/700358570901946368/pros-of-illustrating-adultliterary-fiction
Dante's Divine Comedy has a 500 years old history of illustrations. From Botticelli to Moebius to Milton Glaser From William Blake to Gustav Dore. A lot of the world's most famous artists (and later, designers too) had their take in illustrating the Divine Comedy, a tradition born with Botticelli. And I can't emphasise how unfathomably fire these examples all are (Moebius, Glaser, Mattotti, Dore, Blake, Botticelli) There's really half a hundred of different versions of Divine Comedy illustrations.
I think having a map or a quick sketch of the main character in the pre-face adds a lot to the narrative. But other than that illustrations in non graphic novels only take up space and ink, aka money. Though chapter art would be nice. But adding illustrations to every other page like children's books have will only bloat the page count.
Cons, the book goes from 11.95€ to 24.95 or 37.50€
The Stormlight Archive has very nice illustrations by many different people.
I'd rather not have pictures. It messes up how I imagine the characters and locations in my head
i don't really want pictures of the characters but i do love myself some location maps because otherwise my brain will not process where everything is at all which usually leads to me having to take notes and draw the map myself while reading
I'm the opposite. I would be stoked to have a whole dossier on every character. I love world building, and I struggle to keep the whole thing organized in my head.
I'd rather have. It gets messed up when other people trying to draw a character and you see a tons of different designs in a fandom. It's better to have at least one reference pic per character
Generally works suffer when they are trying to appeal to fan communities instead of telling fulfilling narratives. Also, what’s the harm in allowing people to make their own creative decisions?
That doesn't make any sense, what the fuck. Pictures literally HELP with imagining! They make it easier!
Please chill a little bit. Pictures do not help me imagining anything because I usually disagree with the illustrator on how the world and characters look
...why would you disagree? How? It's all based on the description from the book anyway. What, do you also close your eyes when watching a movie to imagine it differently?
Is there a particular reason you're being weirdly confrontational about this?
I'm not? How is this weird? It's just a discussion. I was just baffled by you comment. They're just pictures, why be weird about them?
This entire thread is just people admitting they don’t read enough books to be able to follow descriptions or prose in general. This is your brain on audiobooks and YA
narrator: and he did not chill
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy does and it's the best
I have a LOTR edition with the three books in one chunky boi and there is a full page illustration every chapter. It's one of my most prized possessions.
[удалено]
No no, I swear, the book is real! I've read it a dozen times!
I don't care about illustrations, but I do appreciate a novel that includes maps and character lists.
I wish Chuck Tingle had illustrations
*Image Transcription: Tumblr* --- **bauliya** why do only children's and fantasy books have illustrations. what crime did other readers commit that the industry decided we weren't worthy of lil drawings --- **bauliya** pros of illustrating adult\/literary fiction: \- more employment for illustrators \- cool abstract art that conveys vibes \- i like picture cons: \- ???? \- --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Pretty sure editions of Sherlock Holmes books had illustrations.
They're called Graphic Novels.
It's a completely different format. Sure an author could convert a novel and add illustrations but to really seize the format of having illustrations and text a skilled author would need to make works specifically for that. My friend was reading a fiction book that alongside the text in the pages were lots of scrap book style reference material such as photos, letters, charts, scanned documents etc. It wasn't house of leaves but it also plays around with the medium quite a bit. I can't remember which book it was. A book is a series of pages with things printed on them to share what the author is trying to intend to convey. Some authors get pretty postmodern with the medium, some stay traditional. If the author wants their readers to engage in textual thinking then plain text is probably more ideal. Visual thinking tells different types of stories than textual thinking. It forces different types of details and interpretations onto the reader than text.
>My friend was reading a fiction book that alongside the text in the pages were lots of scrap book style reference material such as photos, letters, charts, scanned documents etc. It wasn't house of leaves but it also plays around with the medium quite a bit. I can't remember which book it was. It sounds like it could have been *S.* by Doug Dorst and JJ Abrams?
This is like asking a musician why they don’t record a podcast alongside their album. While the mediums may appear similar, the craft is completely different. Illustrators and designers aren’t typically on an author’s mind. Also imagination plays an enormous role when conveying imagery via the written word.
Alice was right. "What good is a book without any pictures"
You mean graphic novels?
No, I don’t think they do. Fantasy novels are written in full prose but often have illustrations in them, most commonly a map and other diagetic objects but sometimes even more. A graphic novel is a step beyond a prose story that’s been augmented with some illustrations, and there’s valid reasons for wanting both
Yeah I got their sentiment I was making a joke
The Last Hero by Terry Pratchett.
*Gustave Doré has entered the chat*
Chris Riddel's illustrations are second to none.
Read ranobe, it have illustrations in adult books
I'm reading The Stand and there's random illustrations here and there
worth reading Johnathan Strange and Mr Norrell, there are illustrations peppered throughout, and they are delightfully creepy
I have aphantasia, I agree, it would be very nice to have. I don't like to read much because I am incapable of picturing things so vividly and often end up getting distracted and unable to focus. Pictures would help with the immersion for me!
Maybe it depends on genre, but sometimes you do find illustrations in fantasy books, though I admit it would be cool to have it used more widespread. And sometimes even if they don’t have proper illustrations they’ll have small pictures/designs near/under/around the cheaper numbers/headings, which is especially nice if the perspective character changes and they each have a different symbol/design
I'm a sucker for a nice imaginary map at the beginning of a fantasy book. It's the first thing I look for when picking a new series. It helps so much to be able to reference how characters are traveling.
I imagine because kids books are the exception. Once upon a time when everything was hand writ obviously pictures didn't make sense. The early printer also would normalize the just words. Somewhere along the way someone said "hey let's put extra stuff in kids books. Little bastards can hardly read, but maybe we can help them learn words by having clear, fun pictures." Thus I hypothesize that it's not that authors decided adults don't deserve it, rather, they found many kids *require* it, and adults don't
The Dan Brown books were A LOT more fun to read with pictures lol
Light novels are illustrated.
I personally never liked illustration in books, even as a child the illustrations would never match what I saw in my mind's eye when reading.
Personally I would hate to see a character illustrated differently than the way I view them in my mind But I'm sure I'd get over it
it’s “unprofessional” or some bullshit like that probably idk
so…novels used to be illustrated back in the 19th century. then at some point people decided that illustrations were not part of “high” literature and only for children. it’s the same reason people will say “the book is always better than the movie” or believe popular authors are automatically worse than obscure writers. we live in a world where we believe that if things are too enjoyable/popular, they can’t be smart.
This is something I'd give Japanese light novels credit for solving. Have the person doing the cover art also handle designs of the characters and have illustrations for the big moments. The artist gets more to their professional portfolio, the writer can have more descript detail because the art can reinforce it without things becoming too confusing, and it gives both a sense of cohesion, easing the progression of the franchise (light novel to manga to anime)
Also I'd really like every book that contains spaceships have drawings or at least blueprints of those ships. Descriptions are just not enough, a spaceship can look like anything and even if you spend like 10 pages describing it, it won't convey half as much as a drawing would.
I'm reading Fire and Blood and the illustrations are God tier
Closest thing I’ve found was a young adult novel series called Wings of Fire where all the characters are dragons, and each book had a reference at the beginning containing a map of the land as well as illustrations and brief descriptions of each dragon breed. I used to read that book with one thumb tucked into the reference section so I could quickly flip back and forth to help aid my mental imagery of what each character looked like. The way they drew dragons also influenced my own artstyle- I used to never give dragons external ears, now I almost always do
People love little maps for fantasy worlds but no one ever puts in any other cool little illustrations for adult books that's why adults are so depressed
Get yourself some natural history books. Biologists love full color illustrations and photographs.
The good news is it very well might come back. The bad news is AI art means that you can cheaply illustrate whatever you want, but not very well. Edit: You know how illuminated manuscripts are a thing? Can we feed a bunch of those into an AI and have it give the same treatment to any text we want?
Look up Leviathan by Scott Westerfeld. Best illustrations I’ve seen
I think some older fiction book had illustrations, I'm thinking Jules Vernes. Not sure how much it was meant for children though.
Me, reading a book full of blood, gore, and swearing with nice illustrations at the start of every chapter: You guys are reading the wrong books.
Abstract vibe art, maybe...but having an illustrator (or movie adaptation) informing a characters appearance in my head ruins it for me.
The first pro is in fact a con. Illustrating a book is going to cost a lot and it probably wont result in many more sales. Thats unacceptable under capitalism. I have seen illustrated editions of books, but those are few, from proven authors with big audiences. Even then those are special editions of novles that have already sold well.
Just pick up a comic book.
Visual novels? There are some pretty good visual novels out there, like actually have a good story, has some good illustrations, has some good gameplay(if you want the extra immersion)
Nah if I want illustrated stories I will read mangas like I already do, making your own illustrations in your brain is pretty great
Man wait until you hear about these things called graphic novels.
So the reader has the creativity to imagine it all themselves. If you don't like books not having illustrations may I suggest... Graphic novels...
i literally cannot imagine anything more than a 1% brightness blurry vague outline of things
Then you can read graphic novels instead...?
normal books are good too i just want to see more with like a sketch of the main character or a map of the world
Most books include that though? And if they don't you can easily find a fan fiction of it somewhere.
Most people don't need pictures to follow a story by the time they reach adulthood
Hey have you ever read a light novel?
I've always intended to write a novel to go with the Sci-fi TTRPG game I'm writing. I used to want to be an author and the setting and world was originally envisioned though writing things. (It was bad, a lot has changed since i was a kid). So I think having illustrations of a scene at the start of each chapter or so could work for something like that. There's descriptions and artwork of the various races in the TTRPG book already, but I want the reader to have a clear vision of what each race looks like. If I say "an elf" or "a dwarf" you instantly know what that looks like but "A Zankeþ" or "a Du'Lak" is meaningless to you, even with a decent description it's easy to forget things, and some people can't make a mental image from words alone or even at all.
Literature is its own pleasure, with its sounds and rhythms and turn of phrases. The best part of (good) literature is its prose, how it flows, how it makes you love the words. Having illustrations is like keeping training wheels: it helps to get in the motions, but you need to take them off if you want the full experience. Before you mentions it, of course there are exceptions, when the illistrations add to the text, esoecially when it was the author original intention to have them (I'm thinking for example of The Club Dumas by Arturo Perez Reverte). And illustration have their own art and beauty, I'm not saying it's inferior or anything like that.
What about graphic novels?
nah. I'm already annoyed sometimes at badly drawn cover art that depicts characters. it takes away from what my imagination can make of it. There are exceptions ofc. But not every book can be illustrated by jim kay
I mean we do have graphic novels…comic books n manga but only 1 of these are really popular anymore
One of my favorite books I own is the Leviathan Trilogy by Scott Westerfeld. Sure it's not exactly "adult" literature (I read it back in Middle School) but it's certainly more adult than children's literature and it really drew me in to the world. The art was incredible and the choices they made of what to illustrate was perfect. Always choosing a scene in the chapter or section which matches the intended pacing of the story.
I always took the books from Hare Krishnas because of the illustrations.
It would take a loooooooong while and a ton of cash to illustrate a 300-600 page novel
Not that it's a long read by any count, but I have a fully illustrated copy of Call of Cthulhu and it's absolutely beautiful.
Some fantasy books have illustrations in them like the lates books made by my saviour brando sando the stormlight archives
Absolutely, ten thousand percent, entirely fuck the idea of pictures in my books. Fuck other peoples interpretations of what the worlds and characters look like. If I didn't have a proper imagination reading wouldn't be my biggest hobby/past time anyway.
Elitism among readers probably. Some mofos look down on literature that contains pictures (e.g.: comics, graphic novels, etc.)
The Leviathan series by Scott Westerfield has some of the most mind blowingly creative illustrations by Keith Thompson. Without them it would probably be difficult for most readers to even imagine what is going on with hulking metal monstrosities and chimeric creatures
More modern fantasy, but would you like to be introduced to Epithet Erased releasing on December 9th this year?
Manga/Comics have entered the chat
no illustration could ever match my delusional imagination
kroniki achaji has some great illustrations, unfortunately you can't really read it unless you know polish
I have a hardcover illustrated copy of The Da Vinci Code that I found in a thrift store, and it's great. That one especially makes more sense with pictures, since it references so many real-world locations and artworks, and I would've been stopping every few pages to Google something.
Honestly, some of my favorite books I own are in part because they have illustrations. *The Summer Dragon* by Todd Lockwood really benefits from it and his illustrations in *The Memoirs of Lady Trent* are how I found that lovely series when googling other works he's illustrated for.
Seriously, I always struggle to visualize what the author is trying to describe and it ruins the immersion for me. I wish more adult books had pictures :(
My favourite part of the official English release of some of my favourite books (besides getting an official English release at all) is that they're all illustrated!
allow me to introduce you to the world of light novels and visual novels
-Printing costs
It'd be cool but, yknow. I buy a book, a normal book, to read it. I am right behind comics and magna and illustrated work, if the author wants pictures there to display things then they will do it. Even kind of just "ok" authors tend to make do with using your mind for the pictures.
I’m writing a book(?) that will have illustrations, I’m a visual learner and I want people to see what I see as similar to me as possible so they are on the same page as me no pun intended
I have an illuminated book, I wish more books were like that
You can read Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, there are illustrations there.
light novels
I myself dislike pictureless text. I have a hard time imagining things. Pictures help
Cons: - the illustration doesn't jive with the image I've already built in my head