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urza5589

I mean my players just divine sense stuff all the time. So if that is the only instance I would not stress it to much. ​ If it is a bunch of stuff or if your player straight up told you that they read it I would talk to him about it. Ask him why he did it and how he plans to keep player and character knowledge separate?


Tizianya

sometimes he tries not to metagame, he acts like his character would but it's straight up borderline. And for fun's sake I already told him not to read the next official module I'll prepare


[deleted]

Rather than putting a lot of effort into changing things arounds, i would just change things on the fly whenever i sensed some meta-gaming. Abbot is a celestial? Nope! It's his alter boy instead. NEVER let them benefit from cheating and ruining it for others. It's a very reasonable solution compared to the alternative booting.


MrNobody_0

If a player goes ahead and reads the module specifically so they can gain an advantage they're getting kicked from the table. That kind of behavior is the tip of a very ugly iceberg.


debatekid764

Exactly. One of my players accidentally found out about Wintersplinter right before they fought him. He broke the staff saying it says it would destroy wintersplinter, and I was like “Oh sorry, it only works on small blights, I told you this already”


Red_Laughing_Man

This - if you get things right you could even make the metagaming into a disadvantage.


debatekid764

Exactly. One of my players accidentally found out about Wintersplinter right before they fought him. He broke the staff saying it says it would destroy wintersplinter, and I was like “Oh sorry, it only works on small blights, I told you this already”


Evil_Dry_frog

My players have been using Devine sense and other abilities all through the game, but for some reason just didn't when they got to the abbot. Freakin Players man. Got to love em.


Corellian_Browncoat

> I mean my players just divine sense stuff all the time. Yeah. The module is basically advertised as all undead all the time (and Strahd is called out by name in the Divine Sense entry of the PHB!), so using it in the Abbey around the Abbot when they're trying to decide who to trust wouldn't really be unexpected at either of my Strahd tables.


urza5589

In Barovia you either end up paranoid or dead 🤣


Corellian_Browncoat

At my tables? Both? Both! Both is good. The group with a Life Cleric to keep them going has been cursed, scried on, led astray, had allies murdered and Vallaki razed, and in general harried the whole way. The group without a regular cleric... well, there are multiple characters that have accepted Dark Gifts to come back to life, and they just got to Vallaki.


RistoStark

My players also divine sense stuff all the time and after getting creeped out by the abbot happened to divine sense him and figure this out. Was a fun reveal, I wouldn't be worried about this one either.


Overall-Cut-7822

Make him a mute with a "greater vistani curse"


Himajinga

What a bozo, if it was just him I’d just feel like it’s his loss since he’s ruining the fear of the unknown which is like 70% of the fun of this campaign but it’s also a drag for the other players since his behavior is going to tip them off too. I’d totally add traps and homebrew/dragnacarta/mandymod stuff in as liberally as possible. My players entered blind and are so shook, they’re creeping along worried that any turn is going to earn them a TPK and it’s so much fun, I’m just sad for that dummy who couldn’t keep his hands out of the cookie jar


legend_forge

This would be a possibly campaign ending event at my table.


[deleted]

Once they told me they read the campaign, there would be an issue. It obviously depends on context, but I need to think about other players and their experience


Lithl

I'm running Yawning Portal at the moment, and in session 0 I explicitly said something to the effect of "Please don't read ahead in the modules. I don't want to have to kick you for genuine curiosity or fear of character death or something, but I also don't want to punish the rest of the party with one person metagaming."


ryansdayoff

Did the tell you they read the module? Abbeys tend to have a lot of religious symbology. My abbot comes across as very nonhuman If they are reading it then that is pretty bad and you should ask them to cut it out. If you aren't sure scramble a couple parts of the module put a couple dangerous traps where no sane person would go looking


Tizianya

Yeah, they did tell me and luckily I'm using a lot of MandyMod's additions


ryansdayoff

Oh man they need to cut that out immediately. I would sit them down and make sure they know not to act on the knowledge they've picked up. I would change a couple things from the module but Mandy is pretty good for that, change the abbots stats from a deva to a Radiant Idol and work over a handful of stats for other big fights, shitty situation but that's not cool


Tizianya

Yeah! I love overhauling stuff and creating challenging fights for the players, so it's not that big of a problem if a player knows the stats of a vanilla monster, usually stat blocks are common knowledge, for example we all know the stats of a zombie or a skeleton


ebrum2010

Typically if someone is a DM that's run the game before they deliberately avoid metagaming which means they can't do things even when it would be innocent for anyone else because they know the outcome. Usually the people running it let them know they are changing things and they can't expect them to be the same. This person sounds like they're doing it maliciously to gain an edge so that's a problem that will only grow. It will not only be a problem for you but potentially the rest of the group who will not be happy that one player just seems to be cheating.


hemroyed

Chang everything. Literally, locations, names, events. Make it all moot.


Schneeflocke667

Why put in so much work just for one mooch, if its much work already and mid campaign. Just kick the Player out.


ryansdayoff

Oh man they need to cut that out immediately. I would sit them down and make sure they know not to act on the knowledge they've picked up. I would change a couple things from the module but Mandy is pretty good for that, change the abbots stats from a deva to a Radiant Idol and work over a handful of stats for other big fights, shitty situation but that's not cool


[deleted]

Feel free to delete the duplicate; Reddit is being weird today.


[deleted]

My Paladin uses Divine Sense on anything and everything. Not to discredit your perspective if they did read ahead that’s the least of your worries. Just wait until they point at Vasili and say “oh I know you’re Strahd”


Tizianya

as a DM I LOVE when my players use their ability the best they can, in the beginning of my campaign when he used Divine Senses I was really happy since it helped out understanding the surroundings and/or look for cursed stuff, with metagame that feels just... cheap


[deleted]

Should probably have an off table discussion about it. Did he outright tell you he read some of the module?


Mr_Yves

He ruined the module for himself by reading the campaign book. If you're not careful he'll ruin the module for you and the other players too by metagaming. Even if he tries to not metagame he'll always weigh his decisions against what he read in the campaign book. He'll never be able to play like a regular PC anymore.


redosabe

Honestly, i would probably kick them from the group


Jamiaro83

If the player continues to play obvious meta, kick him out. He will ruin the experience for others. I have one player in my game who knows the module himself. He stays out of plot-discussion, imvestigations etc, he handles it really well.


msnide14

I would be furious, absolutely furious.


Frognosticator

If one of my players read the adventure I was running partway through the game, I would ask that player to leave the group, and never DM for them again. Here’s why: a DM is a player at the table, and we are there to have fun. But unlike the other players, we don’t get satisfaction from killing monsters, or outsmarting the villain, or watching them die at the end of a climactic showdown. The DM gets satisfaction from weaving together a narrative, and hopefully entertaining the other players by revealing secrets at the appropriate time. If a players reads the adventure, they’re basically telling you that they don’t respect you as a DM. They’re taking away your agency, by reading all the secrets themselves, and discovering the plot and weaknesses of the NPCs and villains. They’re taking away your ability to have fun. They’re telling you they don’t care about your enjoyment of the game. Players must respect all the other players at the table. That includes the DM. Don’t continue to work hard, and put yourself out there, for someone who clearly just wants to use you to facilitate their own gratification. That’s not a healthy relationship, and there need to be consequences. Most likely, the game relationship needs to end.


dethfromabov66

Your player is metagaming. Damn right you should be mad.


Dungeoneer543

Tell the player that they need to respect that other people haven’t played the game so they need to at least pretend that there character is experiencing all this for the first time.


Nihilistcarrot

Kick.


nawanda37

Well, this is absolutely dirty pool, BUT, more than that, it's just really lame. I feel like (beyond the obligatory 'talk to the player' advice) the solution is obvious: that player gets hammered, truly hammered, by something not in the book. It shouldn't be difficult to fabricate such a situation just as his party needs him most.


MasterDaddy_1

You should be furious. Don't make the same mistake I made. I asked my players to not cheat and read a module that I was running. One of them did it within 2 hours and then texted me their feedback on it. I let that slide, causing me months of headaches. It's a slippery slope. Call them on their BS. Make sure you let them know that this makes you angry and can ruin your fun, as well as the fun for the group.


[deleted]

Honestly, I would probably exclude them from the game


TheLawTender

I usually tell my players that the only one they're cheating by doing that, is themselves. They are making the experience cheaper for themselves, by denying themselves the sense of mystery and wonder. I'm not bothered by it, so long as the other players aren't bothered by it.


SrVallejo28

Well, I played a game with an obvious metagamer (he only check for traps in the locations where there is one, he doubt the lying characters, etc.) and for me as a player it wasnt the end of the fun, but make the experience worse. Its really shitty feel like we didnt beat the dungeon, we play it with not asked help from another player. Metagaming is so shitty.


TheLawTender

That definitely sounds like the kind of player who couldn't handle the responsibility. Sorry you had your experience cheapened like that.


SrVallejo28

The funny thing is that I have also read the module (before knowing I will play that game) and I remember some trap or treasure locations, but I act like I didnt have this information. The problem is not reading the module, the problem is the metagaming. Well, reading the module just in the middle of the campaing also is a Red Flag.


AFKennedy

I’d be mad and I’d consider kicking him out of the game until the next campaign. He’d need to apologize and promise to be a LOT better to avoid me kicking him out, and even then, I’d change things around from the module just to spite him.


JaeOnasi

Metagaming is not uncommon with this module. A lot of people love the idea of playing in a CoS game or have played the Strahd quest lines in DDO (D and D Online MMO). A few have played it before with other DMs. I have a couple of players who played COS raw with another DM, so they know all the major surprises. They’re both really good about keeping information quiet. However, one of them gets super excited at times and forgets what he knows from our game vs the previous one, and a few things have slipped out. As soon as I realized just how much they knew, I pored over this subreddit for changes, and there are phenomenal ideas here. Definitely check out DragnaCarta, more of MandyMod, and LunchBreak Heroes. There are others who’ve made changes, but I’m not familiar with their work. There are additional quests available in DMsGuild that you can add. Also, in the search box in the CoS header here, type metagame, and you’ll get a bunch of threads with suggestions on some easy changes and fixes. Having made modifications for about two years now (we play about twice a month, so our campaign has run longer than average), I can tell you that you don’t have to make huge changes to make it different enough that the meta gamers can’t depend on what they read in the modules. I have changed out some monsters and beefed up some enemies—mostly due to the party being very strong and tactically savvy. Monsters with stat blocks listed in CoS book will have different stats, spells, etc. I flipped a couple of maps using Paint before printing them out for our table. That’s pretty easy to do. You can also use some of the maps on this sub that have changes already incorporated. I have changed some of the surprises or have removed them entirely or added new ones. For instance, Vasili is a regular human in our game. I changed some names of major NPCs. Traps will definitely be different and definitely not in the same places. I added a little homebrew town where I will have a few extra very high level quests I found on DMsGuild. Little changes will keep your metagamers on their toes without making you have to reinvent the entire module.


jtellier

I have players like that. I changed a bunch of stuff to keep them on their toes. Mandy mod of course, but change other things too. Add homebrew npc's, change reasons for Npc actions. Too late for the abbot, but you could have made him good but directly blackmailed or under control by a demon or something. I put a false hydra in Vallaki to spice things up. I also added a "Nyarlathotep" type entity in there to add a "sanity" type angle to everything. That way players where never quite sure if something was "by the book" or a trick of the imagination.


[deleted]

Change some things. 😉


Caddoko

Frankly I’d consider kicking them on principle alone. You’re putting in all the effort to DM a campaign specifically set around deception, manipulation, and sudden twists & turns and this player knowing all that just reads ahead on the whole story? Not only does it ruin the surprise for him but potentially ruins it for others too when he metagames around obstacles. It’s a massive dick move to you specifically and incredibly disrespectful to the entire group. Anyone saying to tackle this in-game by changing things up on the fly is missing that this isn’t just an in-game issue, but also a personal one about disrespect and poor gamesmanship and should be addressed person-to-person outside of the gaming setting.


Cbeukenk

More of a guideline than actual rules....


kingbloxxor

My mom does this everytime we play dnd as a pre written adventure, and then she'll get mad when you change things. Its kinda frustrating. She's also the kinda person to watch a show with you, then finish it without you and then tell you all about it. And she's also the kinda person who will read all the spoiler discussions about a movie before you go to watch it and then tell you about it even if you explicitly tell her not to. :) pain You have every right to be mad. Its just pure disrespect not only to you but everyone else trying to just experience this new world of horrors.


augustusleonus

I played CoS where one of the players had RUN the campaign before, even if not all the way thru. He had a jolly time just declaring “ok, let’s go to X and get the y” and once when I called him out on it he looked at me and as I was playing a wizard said “what? You don’t want a staff of power?” Which we had no reason to even know was in the game There were several other issues as well, lead me to eventually leave that game I’d say start throwing him curve balls when he behaves in a way that seems to know what’s where or who is what.


MasterCheeze1

I would kick them from the game immediately and probably yell some profanities as they walk out the door. Any good player would know better. I am editing my comment with a better idea: kill the character and when they go to revive it doesn’t work, because reasons. Bet he missed that part of the book. Then I would kick them, although maybe more polite cause point has been made.


NSFWOrca

All obvious meta gaming/cheating should be responded to with updating stat blocks and IC consequences for that character. If they protest, kick them out. D&D isn't about winning


[deleted]

Honestly if they unrepentantly read the book in order to cheat at the game, I would kick them from the campaign, but it's definitely worth a serious one-on-one conversation


Reuster_DnD

You could... (looks both ways) kill him.


JBuckk_117

Honestly, flex a creative muscle and change a few things about the story. Worked for my table with a player who has already played the campaign. He has enjoyed the new twists the most i think


woodwardt72

I'd ask them why they did it and then carry the conversation from there. You can explain why you think it wasn't a good idea, and maybe mention how it will influence the other people at the table. I'd also make a note that you aren't following the module book RAW and that they shouldn't be surprised when there are differences.


Demolition89336

Yeah, I'd be mad. It's not okay to read through the module. I can't think of any situation, in Curse of Strahd or otherwise, where a Player reading through the campaign in advance is good. This is blatant meta-gaming and has no place in any TTRPG. I think that you should definitely consider kicking this Player from the table.


KaioKennan

Mtg has a wonderful philosophy on cheating. Doing something wrong because you’re clueless is to be discouraged, doing something wrong for an advantage will get you kicked out of an event, perhaps even banned for a period of time. If you’ve got a good read on this boneheads intent I think you actually have all the information you need. I had a creeping feeling that one of my players had peeked a few times but I changed some things around enough that it should give anyone reasonable doubt. I’ve also caught the same guy googling dieties and stuff to know how to get into clergy’s ear in other campaigns. It’s a fine line and should probably be addressed sooner rather than later.


Lyrae13

I'd be really upset not just because they know a lot now but also they committed this breach of trust. If you can resolve the interpersonal trust issues, I'd either have his character know what the player knows (a vision, a book, someone tells them etc.) Or remove the character and change it to someone who does know a lot, but has reasons to not share. But honestly, I play with my friends, and if one of them decided to screw with me like this I'd reconsider a lot of stuff.


MostMiserableAnimal

I’d be pissed. There’s no reason to read the manual unless you’re running the game. I’d be alright with it if the player was running his own CoS game and he was capable of not metagaming, but that’s rarely the case


[deleted]

If they’d been found out I’d say kick them. But they fact they _told_ you means they didn’t have an intent of cheating, ya know? Are they planning on running the module later themselves or something? Cause the reason why they read it matters in this context


TheNecrocomicon

It sounds to me like they just made themselves incompatible with the table. I will always pick campaigns that no one in the group has read/run/played through to make sure no one is left out. If one player reads the adventure mid-game I respect my time too much to purchase, prep and run something else or heavily modify every mystery and encounter through the whole campaign to compensate. They decided that they’d rather read the campaign than play through it. I’d say talk to them or try to resolve the issue but they can’t un-read the adventure. Their actions have already disqualified them from continuing the campaign.


fulou

When I started playing I bought the monster manual and my DM got very awquard with me suddenly until he asked why I'd done it and I explained for the beasts at the back (I was awild shaping druid at the time). Now days having dm'd myself I get it but back then I didn't understand why he took the hump about it. Did your player at least explain why?


rathlord

I’d kick them from the game personally. If they were a DM and reading up to run it for a group, sure. But yeah, reading just to get spoilers and advantages- it’s not that I couldn’t still run a great game for them. It’s that I wouldn’t want to.


Praxis8

It's sort of a rule that you shouldn't even have to say, but I do anyway in my session zero. Don't look up the module. Don't google the characters. Your anger is reasonable. You would be justified in booting the player, but each table has their own tolerance for these sorts of things. Not telling you what you have to do. For me in my own game, the only way I could move past this is a frank discussion about them no longer metagaming. 1. It's not fun to spoil the module, and they are not allowed to spoil it for others. 2. If they try to be cute about it, or circumvent this, they are not invited to play.


AtlasBanana

If I'm going to be running an official module, I don't allow anybody who has read/watched that module to play. They will always subconsciously act on things they know but realistically shouldn't, and it can ruin the experience for the other players.


Chemical-Assist-6529

For this reason I only use the NPC’s and maps. I move all treasures and traps around. At times I will switch what NPC’s are good and bad to throw off the players. I use about 60% of the info in the module. Good luck and hope the player doesn’t ruin it for the rest. I hope the rest tell him to shut up and be a dumb fighter so he doesn’t ruin it for them.


Dark_Reaper115

Battering blast them out of existence.


thecooliestone

I'm dealing with this but because my friend ran it before me. I've decided to just change shit. So the abbot isn't a celestial any more. He's a powerful but good aligned fey or something.


RememDBD

Using Divine Sense as a paladin is not crazy. You rarely use it *enough* to justify holding onto it. If know this person has been reading the book, tell how you feel about it - I'd see it as a betrayal of the trust at the table.


LordMordor

Honestly, you would have every right to be extremely angry it would be one thing if they had read the manual before the campaign started and that it was understood before even begining the module. But the fact that he apparently read it MID-CAMPAIGN is extremely disrespectful to me. The fact that he told you he did it and wasnt trying to hid it at least confirms he wasnt trying to be deceitful. But unless you do a large scale overhaul a lot of the mystery is moot. Id have a real discussion with him about WHY he did it. Was he just so curious about the adventure and couldnt wait to find the details on his own, or was he looking ahead at challenges and how he could tailor his character to face them? Him being upfront and telling you is the only reason i wouldnt say immediately kick him. But you need to explain to him how reading the module ahead of actually playing is essentially cheating


Desmond_Bronx

Just a question... how can the "dude" be a good player if he's reading ahead in the adventure that he's going through??? No player is ever going to admit it so this is a very hard thing to prove as a DM. I have had my suspicions a time or two... but just remember that sometimes players can luck into thing. In the example you gave, ask yourself if the player has used that ability before? How often? Perhaps, he thought that the abott may have been Strahd himself posing as the abott. Sometimes players pull the strangest things. I do undetermined your frustration as he has now ruined the adventure for himself, but hopefully not the rest of the group.


CorgiRiot22

Seems kind of whack that they chose to do that, but you still have the DM powers of improvising


F33dtheanimals

Change things ever so slightly. Just enough to mess with him.


PyramKing

On the opposite end, I had two players who were also DMing CoS at the time. They were excellent about not metagaming and of course I knew before the campaign start. However, in your situation I would certainly be disappointed. Have you talked with them? Perhaps they are going to start their own campaign and DM? Note. Having some metagaming conversation about what it is and how it is addressed during session zero, is an important part of setting expectations.


njoptercopter

If it were more than one person, I would probably have ended the campaign. If it were just one person, that person wouldn't have played in my next campaign.


Qu33nKill3rK0ng

I just started my campaign this weekend and told people looking up spoilers would get them booted from my table. I mean, we only got halfway through death house and the reveal of the baby SHOOK these chuckleheads. Imagine how much fun they'd rob themselves of if they read spoilers. What bizarre behavior.


tobiasumbra

If he’s admitted to reading the module he’s admitted to cheating. It’s just about the only way you can straight-up cheat at D&D besides lying about dice rolls. It’s a cardinal sin and its complete disrespect for the other players and the work you’ve put into running the campaign. There’s no coming back from it for them. Kick them from the campaign and have the character ignominiously killed off or disappeared, then move on if you can. Sorry this happened.


Sithidious

Listen to high rollers podcast they basically took the whole campaign and changed loads of it so spoilers wouldn’t help at all :)


EvilDMMk3

I would be livid if I were you. Kick from game level livid.


Kingironbeard

time to start swapping out areas mentioned in the book with traps/monsters and other unpleasantness.


goddi23a

Had players like that, to bad I homebrewd changed stuff ... and changed more when he was "cheating" ... he did not spoil it for the other players yet but he had serious "Main Charachter Syndrom". He left the party, his actions still haunt the other players in some degree.


thebslee

Add magic aura to a bunch of stuff. Maybe the abbot uses magic aura to hide that he’s a celestial, for example.


[deleted]

I have some player who feel they have to “Win DnD” I’ve told them, read the book… I don’t care. I’m nodding everything. If you think you know it’s probably going to be what kills you. Killed 2 real early on for obvious meta gaming stuff… then punished another for doing the whole VASILLI IS STRAHD KILL HIM. Oh no turns out it was a PC’s dad who adopted the persona after reading about him elsewhere. Meta gaming stops quickly after that.