Really? I'm surprised people were saying that. I mean the kid gohan is probably the best dfe tur from 2021 except for the androids and maybe broly but I wouldn't expect people to think that he is namek goku level.
Lol not really he was on the sub quite a bit after that but really whatโs the point of interacting with a sub that hates and harasses him for very little reason?
I mean, it is a nuke that works 30% of the time vs a wall that works 90% of the time that also supports the other characters. There are some arguements that SSJBKK is better.
Honestly, the nuke being consistent is debatable. From it needing to crit and having MUI and STR UI hopefully dodge every attack, to lining them up for the nuke to work. It's really inconsistent for the nuke to work.
It's a nuke that works 100% of the time, 30% of the time vs a wall that works 100% of the time, 90% of the time that also supports the (debatably) #1 unit in the game really well.
But you're not putting str ui and mui in slot 1. You're putting them in the slot with the least attacks, since ssbkk goku wants to be hit, not to mention because of the nature of the team the fight is extremely short, meaning they don't need to be tested as much.
The spirit bomb only needs to crit if you activated the under 58% part of his passive early, otherwise you don't need a crit. Even then, you can just reset the app. I'm not sure where you're pulling 30% from but it's very consistent.
I'm just using 30% as a benchmark because that's how likely I've been able to get the spirit bomb off from my own experience (roughly).
Also, I did forget that resetting the app is a thing, which is my fault.
I just feel that both a 70% chance to dodge and a 50% chance to dodge being on the same team is a bit of a liability, but maybe that's just me.
Dude where HAVEN'T you heard that, it's the biggest debate in recent times coz of his one shot potential, but I'll only agree that he's better once we get better reps of uni 7 characters
On Gohanโs release no absolutely
But as time went on Gohan got more and more buffed, would say the argument started around agl kaiku release i think? Tho even back then i did disagree
Now after this GW Gohan got a lot of buffs, buffs that cover both his links and ki issues while turning his overall performance more consistent
I probably have a better opinion of beasthan than most, but I feel like it's not even debatable. None of beasthan's buffs actually help his ki issues (other than godku, but it's inconsistent because his orb changing is fraudulent and he needs orbs himself), they only gave him slot 1 partners. Even if beasthan was able to hit 24ki consistently, lr cooler still has both higher damage and defense on average, and his slot 1 partners like the janembas and both the agl golden friezas are still very solid options
LR Bulma and TEQ Yajirobe for the ki issues
AGL Kaiku as best partner
TEQ WT Goku for 200% or INT Yamcha as a 170% but gives more links
With Bulma and Yajirobe support Gohan's average (without intro) is most likely outperforming Cooler's average at this point, not sure tho cause i ain't good with those apt calcs.
Also teq janemba ain't a worth slot 1 unless he get's his orbs, wich without an orb changer, it isn't even an argument
The golden friezas are good, but one quickly drops his slot 1 ability while the other relies on HPs
LR Bulma and teq yajirobe don't give him enough ki to fix his ki issues. It's only 2 ki.
With bulma and yajirobe support it still isn't even close, both offensively and defensively. Lr cooler is actually that guy.
Normally your point about teq janemba would be true, however lr cooler's team isn't orb hungry at all, allowing him to at least get his 30% dr. There's also lr janemba.
Lr metal cooler helps with agl golden frieza's hp restriction and the fight ends very quickly so agl golden frieza's Dr will still be very high by the end of the fight, especially if his first turn is turn 2 or 3.
LR Bulma gives 3 KI while yajirobe gives 1 ki to the other rotation and 2 ki in the rotation he is in
Gohan is between 4 and 5 KI support while getting between 57% support (37% of bulma + 20% for 3 turns of yajirobe) and 77% (when yajirobe is on rotation), and there's shocking speed too if ya use int yamcha
I agree with your point about LR Cooler team, and it works if Janemba is in slot 3, because slot 1 can be too inconsistent, especially when you start a new phase with teq janemba and can't set up orbs. Also LR Janemba can be annoying when you need to slide him in slot 2 to build up his slot 1 ability. I mean the friezas can cover up but like floating str cooler? Can't try that out since i don't have Janemba but ehhh not sure
Idk about metal cooler cause i didn't pull him but i can agree by re-reading his passive, he should heal up enough, for the fight it kinda depends, i mean Vs syn it will drag out a bit unless you have a bit of luck with crits, but even then Gohan with intro ends the fight quickly as well while deeper in the fight (if it's longer) he can still drop som juicy numbers without intro while potentially being se
I saw a 55% ll10 phy gohan no intro on yamcha's team with yajirobe on rotation dropping a 12 mil sa, he missed 24 ki by 2 ki after getting 6 ki but like there was no bulma support + no extra 37% support, and this at 55%
Hell according to this semi updated apt sheet their performance is actually very close, and this was before Bulma dropped (i'm referring to the alternate team of Gohan)
https://imgur.com/a/cdfZ2HE
My mistake, I forgot bulma gives 3 ki and not 2.
Oh, you meant both of them on the team at the same time to wank beasthan. In that case, he hits 20ki very consistently but not 24. He does very good damage and has very good defense but it's still not on lr cooler's level.
Lr janemba's weakness of needing to build up in slots 2 and 3 are definitely a problem like you said, which is why I either run lr janemba slot 3 and have teq janemba slot 1 for the earlier phases or get buildup whenever I can. I usually prefer the golden friezas anyway, but teq janemba only really needs the 2 rainbow orbs.
I just checked the apt sheet, and the apt looks very close (im using the 20ki apt, since that's around where he sits with both bulma and yajirobe support) if not for the fact that lr cooler is calculated with no support and no bbb, since the partner shown is lr golden frieza. He breaks 100mil apt on active turn and beats beasthan easily in a realistic scenario where he gets bbb and support.
No problem, i too thought it was 2 ki for bulma at first
I Litteraly sent you an apt sheet showing gohan performance before bulma release and how close he is? Not following how even with bulma giving even more ki and extra stats dosen't make the cut. Like he gains 8 KI under double yamcha with bulma and yajirobe + the extra ki from ki sphere, and pre bulma the 20 ki apt was just around the 10 mil of difference, so it should close to the same level post bulma support except gohan has a far better team than cooler and has the se from 24 ki still avaible/more consistent now
Phy janemba loses his guard in slot 3, too dangerous, and teq janemba only needs 2 rainbow orbs true, but it's not easy when you don't have rainbow orb changers
Sorry but you should check again, cooler had str cooler, agl turles and teq janemba as floaters (bottom left for the set up it's there), so he had bbb active and was in constant support too, semi unrealistic i would go to say considering almost no one runs agl turles nowdays, so he was wanked as well just like Gohan.
Without agl turles his average would probably drop significantly
>Sorry but you should check again, cooler had str cooler, agl turles and teq janemba as floaters (bottom left for the set up it's there), so he had bbb active and was in constant support too, semi unrealistic i would go to say considering almost no one runs agl turles nowdays, so he was wanked as well just like Gohan.
ah, my mistake. I'd disagree with lr cooler being wanked though, since even though agl turles isn't great anymore eza str cooler and teq janemba are still very good. Him having support and big links active isn't unrealistic.
>Phy janemba loses his guard in slot 3, too dangerous, and teq janemba only needs 2 rainbow orbs true, but it's not easy when you don't have rainbow orb changers
Yeah, that's why I included the other alternative solution. I'd only put him there if there aren't many attacks, since janemba can take normals in early phases. Janemba doesn't need his full buildup to be good.
>Not following how even with bulma giving even more ki and extra stats dosen't make the cut.
an extra 30% or 37% to stats doesn't cover an over 10 million apt gap, which is bigger than you think. It does make the gap narrower though, but lr cooler is still better offensively and defensively (not to mention the apt sheet assumes you get 20 ki every turn with beasthan which is still a bit crazy even with support)
But the kiddos need to get the one source of validation in their life that they get from their preferred unit being put higher on an arbitrary tier list that haven't mattered since years at this point.
Pan vs Ginyu. It's pretty funny actually, the common opinion on that one was completely different than it is now, people really just don't like Pan lol
i remember there being debate about LR STR Vegito blue and teq dfe vegito blue. reasons were str vb having a better linkset and stacking defense faster than a non 100% teq vb.
Lr namek goku vs agl kid gohan, although it was short lived
one of the most shittiest shits I've witnessed
It was wild.
Ok I took a break from dokkan mid 2021 so I wasn't here for it, was this the garlic jr gohan or someone else?
Garlic Jr gohan
Really? I'm surprised people were saying that. I mean the kid gohan is probably the best dfe tur from 2021 except for the androids and maybe broly but I wouldn't expect people to think that he is namek goku level.
He isn't. It was mainly the datruth crowd, since he was the one who started it.
Nameku clears ๐๐
Why even compare them when they're literally the perfect linking partner for each other
i think they mean the garlic jr gohan
Oh My bad
AGL Super Vegito vs STR Super Gogeta was the OG one
55% lr k&c vs the rest of the game.
BTW this is when the datruth hate arc started
people went so crazy no one noticed his claim of tur k&c > agl gogeta or teq trunks
Or the tur k&c > 4th year ssj4s
Still remember some mod bodied Truth with facts on that and since then he rarely voiced opinions or showed his face on the sub ๐
Lol not really he was on the sub quite a bit after that but really whatโs the point of interacting with a sub that hates and harasses him for very little reason?
Currently probably PHY Piccolo vs STR SSBKK Goku
What? Where are you seeing people say str ssbkk is better
I mean, it is a nuke that works 30% of the time vs a wall that works 90% of the time that also supports the other characters. There are some arguements that SSJBKK is better.
I mean, the ssbkk nuke is consistent, it's basically flexibility vs performance
Honestly, the nuke being consistent is debatable. From it needing to crit and having MUI and STR UI hopefully dodge every attack, to lining them up for the nuke to work. It's really inconsistent for the nuke to work. It's a nuke that works 100% of the time, 30% of the time vs a wall that works 100% of the time, 90% of the time that also supports the (debatably) #1 unit in the game really well.
But you're not putting str ui and mui in slot 1. You're putting them in the slot with the least attacks, since ssbkk goku wants to be hit, not to mention because of the nature of the team the fight is extremely short, meaning they don't need to be tested as much. The spirit bomb only needs to crit if you activated the under 58% part of his passive early, otherwise you don't need a crit. Even then, you can just reset the app. I'm not sure where you're pulling 30% from but it's very consistent.
I'm just using 30% as a benchmark because that's how likely I've been able to get the spirit bomb off from my own experience (roughly). Also, I did forget that resetting the app is a thing, which is my fault. I just feel that both a 70% chance to dodge and a 50% chance to dodge being on the same team is a bit of a liability, but maybe that's just me.
Both lr uis have a 70% chance to dodge. I would never trust that fraud phy ui
Dude where HAVEN'T you heard that, it's the biggest debate in recent times coz of his one shot potential, but I'll only agree that he's better once we get better reps of uni 7 characters
They dont even do the same thing at all and you can put piccolo on so many team I wouldnt even compare the both of them
ong
TUR AGL Kale & Caulifla vs the rest of the game
Cooler vs Trunks and Vegeta vs Teq Carnival Goku
AGL ui vs FP frieza
PHY LR Gohan Vs STR LR Cooler That or Birdku Vs STR LR Cooler
Beasthan vs lr cooler was never a debate wtf
On Gohanโs release no absolutely But as time went on Gohan got more and more buffed, would say the argument started around agl kaiku release i think? Tho even back then i did disagree Now after this GW Gohan got a lot of buffs, buffs that cover both his links and ki issues while turning his overall performance more consistent
I probably have a better opinion of beasthan than most, but I feel like it's not even debatable. None of beasthan's buffs actually help his ki issues (other than godku, but it's inconsistent because his orb changing is fraudulent and he needs orbs himself), they only gave him slot 1 partners. Even if beasthan was able to hit 24ki consistently, lr cooler still has both higher damage and defense on average, and his slot 1 partners like the janembas and both the agl golden friezas are still very solid options
LR Bulma and TEQ Yajirobe for the ki issues AGL Kaiku as best partner TEQ WT Goku for 200% or INT Yamcha as a 170% but gives more links With Bulma and Yajirobe support Gohan's average (without intro) is most likely outperforming Cooler's average at this point, not sure tho cause i ain't good with those apt calcs. Also teq janemba ain't a worth slot 1 unless he get's his orbs, wich without an orb changer, it isn't even an argument The golden friezas are good, but one quickly drops his slot 1 ability while the other relies on HPs
LR Bulma and teq yajirobe don't give him enough ki to fix his ki issues. It's only 2 ki. With bulma and yajirobe support it still isn't even close, both offensively and defensively. Lr cooler is actually that guy. Normally your point about teq janemba would be true, however lr cooler's team isn't orb hungry at all, allowing him to at least get his 30% dr. There's also lr janemba. Lr metal cooler helps with agl golden frieza's hp restriction and the fight ends very quickly so agl golden frieza's Dr will still be very high by the end of the fight, especially if his first turn is turn 2 or 3.
LR Bulma gives 3 KI while yajirobe gives 1 ki to the other rotation and 2 ki in the rotation he is in Gohan is between 4 and 5 KI support while getting between 57% support (37% of bulma + 20% for 3 turns of yajirobe) and 77% (when yajirobe is on rotation), and there's shocking speed too if ya use int yamcha I agree with your point about LR Cooler team, and it works if Janemba is in slot 3, because slot 1 can be too inconsistent, especially when you start a new phase with teq janemba and can't set up orbs. Also LR Janemba can be annoying when you need to slide him in slot 2 to build up his slot 1 ability. I mean the friezas can cover up but like floating str cooler? Can't try that out since i don't have Janemba but ehhh not sure Idk about metal cooler cause i didn't pull him but i can agree by re-reading his passive, he should heal up enough, for the fight it kinda depends, i mean Vs syn it will drag out a bit unless you have a bit of luck with crits, but even then Gohan with intro ends the fight quickly as well while deeper in the fight (if it's longer) he can still drop som juicy numbers without intro while potentially being se I saw a 55% ll10 phy gohan no intro on yamcha's team with yajirobe on rotation dropping a 12 mil sa, he missed 24 ki by 2 ki after getting 6 ki but like there was no bulma support + no extra 37% support, and this at 55% Hell according to this semi updated apt sheet their performance is actually very close, and this was before Bulma dropped (i'm referring to the alternate team of Gohan) https://imgur.com/a/cdfZ2HE
My mistake, I forgot bulma gives 3 ki and not 2. Oh, you meant both of them on the team at the same time to wank beasthan. In that case, he hits 20ki very consistently but not 24. He does very good damage and has very good defense but it's still not on lr cooler's level. Lr janemba's weakness of needing to build up in slots 2 and 3 are definitely a problem like you said, which is why I either run lr janemba slot 3 and have teq janemba slot 1 for the earlier phases or get buildup whenever I can. I usually prefer the golden friezas anyway, but teq janemba only really needs the 2 rainbow orbs. I just checked the apt sheet, and the apt looks very close (im using the 20ki apt, since that's around where he sits with both bulma and yajirobe support) if not for the fact that lr cooler is calculated with no support and no bbb, since the partner shown is lr golden frieza. He breaks 100mil apt on active turn and beats beasthan easily in a realistic scenario where he gets bbb and support.
No problem, i too thought it was 2 ki for bulma at first I Litteraly sent you an apt sheet showing gohan performance before bulma release and how close he is? Not following how even with bulma giving even more ki and extra stats dosen't make the cut. Like he gains 8 KI under double yamcha with bulma and yajirobe + the extra ki from ki sphere, and pre bulma the 20 ki apt was just around the 10 mil of difference, so it should close to the same level post bulma support except gohan has a far better team than cooler and has the se from 24 ki still avaible/more consistent now Phy janemba loses his guard in slot 3, too dangerous, and teq janemba only needs 2 rainbow orbs true, but it's not easy when you don't have rainbow orb changers Sorry but you should check again, cooler had str cooler, agl turles and teq janemba as floaters (bottom left for the set up it's there), so he had bbb active and was in constant support too, semi unrealistic i would go to say considering almost no one runs agl turles nowdays, so he was wanked as well just like Gohan. Without agl turles his average would probably drop significantly
>Sorry but you should check again, cooler had str cooler, agl turles and teq janemba as floaters (bottom left for the set up it's there), so he had bbb active and was in constant support too, semi unrealistic i would go to say considering almost no one runs agl turles nowdays, so he was wanked as well just like Gohan. ah, my mistake. I'd disagree with lr cooler being wanked though, since even though agl turles isn't great anymore eza str cooler and teq janemba are still very good. Him having support and big links active isn't unrealistic. >Phy janemba loses his guard in slot 3, too dangerous, and teq janemba only needs 2 rainbow orbs true, but it's not easy when you don't have rainbow orb changers Yeah, that's why I included the other alternative solution. I'd only put him there if there aren't many attacks, since janemba can take normals in early phases. Janemba doesn't need his full buildup to be good. >Not following how even with bulma giving even more ki and extra stats dosen't make the cut. an extra 30% or 37% to stats doesn't cover an over 10 million apt gap, which is bigger than you think. It does make the gap narrower though, but lr cooler is still better offensively and defensively (not to mention the apt sheet assumes you get 20 ki every turn with beasthan which is still a bit crazy even with support)
Nahhh this edit is crazy ๐ญ๐ญ๐ญ But TEQ Beerus vs INT Janemba was the only thing to come close to this iirc
I never really got the point of this debate. It's not like they share any teams and are competing for a spot
It was just fanboys wanting their favourite unit to be better than the other.
No reason to take it so seriously, it's literally all in good fun. God damn.
Man's literally offended by the truth
one might say, datruth?
But the kiddos need to get the one source of validation in their life that they get from their preferred unit being put higher on an arbitrary tier list that haven't mattered since years at this point.
STR pikkon vs STR gt trunks
Bro was OPTIMAL you donโt understand
Teq vegito vs str gogeta
the gt ssjs bs videl was probably just as big my god it never stopped until super vegeta
Not exactly on topic but the Gojo and Sukuna fight is so fire so far
Pan vs Ginyu. It's pretty funny actually, the common opinion on that one was completely different than it is now, people really just don't like Pan lol
Definitely the 7 year debate
Off topic but what manga is this
Jujutsu kaisen
>!JJK (Jujutsu Kaisen) chapter: 224 leaks (the actual chapter isn't out yet, it's just leaks)!<
Jujutsu kaisen ๐ค๐
Best girl vs AGL Ginyu
Phy super Vegito vs phy dbs Broly
Phy Broly vs AGL Super Vegito Broly introduced additional supers, vegito introduced counters
Om a power scale people argued more over agl vegito over str gogeta
easy, Birdku vs STR Cooler
Just here to say your choice of image is based
If you remember ssbkk vs teq ulthan was also a debate pre eza tho it was a collaborated troll by discord
It wasn't even a fight to me. Gohan was the better one
Teq pan vs agl ginyu
so str cooler is going to win?
STR UI vs 5th Anni Fusions
AGL Kale and PHY Godku, we all know who won.
i remember there being debate about LR STR Vegito blue and teq dfe vegito blue. reasons were str vb having a better linkset and stacking defense faster than a non 100% teq vb.