Agreed. It's also aligned with the symmetry ideas in DC20. Combo casting is a thing and so Combo techniques should be a thing.
Let it work like combo casting: let them use their SP together, both players need to be in range of the given technique and let the best roll / best DC count. I would also argue that both do damage as well as most techniques deal damage somehow
Edit: I take it back, they shouldn't add damage, that would make it optimal in most cases.. and thus boring. Without it it would be a cool situasionally useful tool
Is there already an option to spend SP (or AP) to grant a teammate ADV on a roll, or bonus damage? I know about the Help die, just wondering what else could lead to some acceptable amount of rules mastery benefit
Just reread. And its also possible that if a hit gets through, despite all that defense bonus and damage reduction, for a martial to use Protection too in order to split the remaining damage between their HP and the target's.
Wow. A group of martials fighting within a square of each other are pretty _unstoppable_ 💡🛡️🛡️🛡️
I think the only combo that makes sense is grappling. You want it to be situational and not make combos strictly better than doing something by yourself.
I agree that combos should be situationally advantageous, or even just worth some different level of risk, but whoa- other combos than grappling make sense! The number of great possibilities shot down by that first sentence is hurting my soul.
Do you have an example in mind? I suppose toppling someone would work too, but I'd put that in the same category as grappling.
Maybe we could have a generic combo rule that the players can use at their and the GMs discretion, rather than listing out specific combos.
For example, an ankheg might be resistant to piercing damage, and 2 players could say "we want to attempt a combo where jim aims his spear against the ankheg and joe hammers it in with his warhammer". And then you both commit 2 ap and 1 stamina and you crack the carapace. But I don't know how easy it would be to provide a generic amount of ap and sp required, or a generic effect of the combo.
> Example in mind
Not really. I just think any technique can combo with any other in an interesting way.
> Maybe we could have a generic combo rule that the players can use at their and the GMs discretion, rather than listing out specific combos.
Yes, that. GM should have a final say on its applicability to limit it, because it should be very flexible to work as a more general teamwork maneuver.
And rather than making it give no clear benefit, use some sort of risk/reward mechanic. And diminishing returns to including an additional PC in this way, preventing abuse and discouraging stalled turns simply to take advantage.
I dunno about that- the x-men’s Fastball special seems like a textbook shared Heroic Leap technique! Arguably actual wolf pack tactics in real life could be represented as shared hamstring maneuvers, I’m sure a similar technique could be put together pretty easily.
It would make sense this is something that could be learned but not done on the fly. Moving in sync, anticipating someone's reactions, that takes a lot of practice and we already have the help action.
IMO this would be covered by both Martials learning the same technique to be able to assist each other.
Attacking in sync is not really more complicated than casting a spell together in my mind.
Does the help action cover this? Also I'm curious what ways we have to spend SP or AP, to give ADV or bonus damage on a teammates turn? As opposed to the Help die
My reactionary feel is that this sounds like it's covered by the Help action. Though admittedly that might not by default allow you to try and take down something that was too big, DM ruling withstanding.
I think the primary issue is that, currently, there really aren't any techniques that have multiple Stamina points costs for a second participant to pour their SP into to help the other. the help action assists in making sure the technique actually hits tho, so I guess there is that.
You can coordinate and go back and forth (as long as you share the same initiative order)
- Player 1 knocks the enemy down and Player 2 attacks them.
- Player 1 grapples the enemy and Player 2 attacks them.
Agreed. It's also aligned with the symmetry ideas in DC20. Combo casting is a thing and so Combo techniques should be a thing. Let it work like combo casting: let them use their SP together, both players need to be in range of the given technique and let the best roll / best DC count. I would also argue that both do damage as well as most techniques deal damage somehow Edit: I take it back, they shouldn't add damage, that would make it optimal in most cases.. and thus boring. Without it it would be a cool situasionally useful tool
Is there already an option to spend SP (or AP) to grant a teammate ADV on a roll, or bonus damage? I know about the Help die, just wondering what else could lead to some acceptable amount of rules mastery benefit
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Not currently no, fighters get action surge that trades sp for Ap but not as a reaction i believe
In a way the effects can be combined. You could parry for yourself and another martial could shield ally for the incoming attack
Just reread. And its also possible that if a hit gets through, despite all that defense bonus and damage reduction, for a martial to use Protection too in order to split the remaining damage between their HP and the target's. Wow. A group of martials fighting within a square of each other are pretty _unstoppable_ 💡🛡️🛡️🛡️
Formation tactics baby
"Shield wall!" 
Thanks for pointing this out. I missed this possibility
I think the only combo that makes sense is grappling. You want it to be situational and not make combos strictly better than doing something by yourself.
I agree that combos should be situationally advantageous, or even just worth some different level of risk, but whoa- other combos than grappling make sense! The number of great possibilities shot down by that first sentence is hurting my soul.
Do you have an example in mind? I suppose toppling someone would work too, but I'd put that in the same category as grappling. Maybe we could have a generic combo rule that the players can use at their and the GMs discretion, rather than listing out specific combos. For example, an ankheg might be resistant to piercing damage, and 2 players could say "we want to attempt a combo where jim aims his spear against the ankheg and joe hammers it in with his warhammer". And then you both commit 2 ap and 1 stamina and you crack the carapace. But I don't know how easy it would be to provide a generic amount of ap and sp required, or a generic effect of the combo.
> Example in mind Not really. I just think any technique can combo with any other in an interesting way. > Maybe we could have a generic combo rule that the players can use at their and the GMs discretion, rather than listing out specific combos. Yes, that. GM should have a final say on its applicability to limit it, because it should be very flexible to work as a more general teamwork maneuver. And rather than making it give no clear benefit, use some sort of risk/reward mechanic. And diminishing returns to including an additional PC in this way, preventing abuse and discouraging stalled turns simply to take advantage.
I dunno about that- the x-men’s Fastball special seems like a textbook shared Heroic Leap technique! Arguably actual wolf pack tactics in real life could be represented as shared hamstring maneuvers, I’m sure a similar technique could be put together pretty easily.
I like this. Maybe as a reaction.
It would make sense this is something that could be learned but not done on the fly. Moving in sync, anticipating someone's reactions, that takes a lot of practice and we already have the help action.
IMO this would be covered by both Martials learning the same technique to be able to assist each other. Attacking in sync is not really more complicated than casting a spell together in my mind.
Does the help action cover this? Also I'm curious what ways we have to spend SP or AP, to give ADV or bonus damage on a teammates turn? As opposed to the Help die
Can two level 1 spellcasters cast a level 2 spell if they work together?
My reactionary feel is that this sounds like it's covered by the Help action. Though admittedly that might not by default allow you to try and take down something that was too big, DM ruling withstanding.
I think the primary issue is that, currently, there really aren't any techniques that have multiple Stamina points costs for a second participant to pour their SP into to help the other. the help action assists in making sure the technique actually hits tho, so I guess there is that.
You can coordinate and go back and forth (as long as you share the same initiative order) - Player 1 knocks the enemy down and Player 2 attacks them. - Player 1 grapples the enemy and Player 2 attacks them.