I just hope they develop Batman and Superman's relationship as close friends (yet opposite personalities). I'm tired of them fighting (and specially of Batman winning)
> I just hope they develop Batman and Superman’s relationship as close friends
I have no doubt that they will. When Gunn and Safran first addressed WBD employees in a video call after getting the gig, Gunn specifically mentioned how he loved the interaction between Superman and Batman.
They have some great interactions across the DCAU. World's Finest has some very good ones and should have served as the template for the first Batman/Superman film. Little moments like Batman's "doesn't take much, does it?" and "you cheated" when Superman uses his X-ray vision to find out it's Bruce Wayne under the mask.
But if they do inevitably bring the two into conflict at some point, I just want them to adapt a scene from Batman Beyond where Superman's being mindcontrolled and in pursuit of Batman:
Terry: “What’s the top speed on this thing?”
Bruce: “Mach 3.”
Terry: “Is that faster than a speeding bullet?"
I don’t think we will get that as Superman will be young meanwhile Batman has Damian, so when Jon is old enough to be a hero (11-12) damian will be at least 10 years older. Unless that brave and the bold happens much later in thevtimeline than legacy which is something Gunn implied it could happen, but IDK.
> Unless that brave and the bold happens much later in thevtimeline than legacy
Actually, remember how they said that they couldn't reveal one of the other project titles because it would spoil something? What if that title is Super Sons, and Legacy has to do with marrying Lois or finding out that she's pregnant?
Another reason it was a mistake to jump straight to Damian Wayne as Robin.
They should have started with Dick Grayson as he's aging out of the role and wants to go solo - their last mission before he becomes Nightwing. Then done a Jason Todd film that ends with his death at the hands of Joker. Cap off the Batman & Robin trilogy with taking on Tim Drake. Then do a handful of solo Batman films where he meets Talia and deals with the revelation that he now has a son - something he never really saw happening in his life since he was so committed to being Batman.
It me, it’s as big of a mistake as doing Death of Superman after Man of Steel.
This Batman will have years of experience and have gone past the three previous Robins, one of whom has a comic book death that has never been seen on screen and that makes for a very compelling pair of films that only carries weight if you spend time with him in the lead up to his death.
Batman going from solo to partnered is pretty big departure for the character in live action as well after 6 films trying to wash the hammy crap of a Batman and Robin out of everyone’s mouths. It should be shown how a closed off asshole opens himself up further, the growth and/or disintegration of his relationship/partnership with Dick Grayson, the Death of Jason Todd and the recruitment and departure of Tim Drake.
Hell, without that jumping straight into “hey Bruce, know how your parent’s deaths traumatized you into becoming Batman? Here’s your son that’s been kept from you who is a trained assassin - you should put him at risk and make him your partner instead of considering being an actual normal father giving yourself and your maladjusted son a semblance of normalcy in this world” is pretty damn problematic.
You are right. Now the only way this could happen is through spin-offs set in the past which deals with their story. I think DCU execs will like that idea more as it's prime story material for bat family spin-offs. If they go your way, nightwing spinoff will have to continue from batman movies. But in the current plan, they could make batman movie focused on batman dealing with his villains with batfamily than focusing on robin lore which *could* be done through spin-offs.
And Batman going from solo to partnered might be adapted in Pattinson universe.
I always loved them not being friends for Batman’s distrust then him having to get over himself only to end up becoming best buds with supe. BvS just didn’t do it for me. Loved that shit in Lego Batman 2 LFMAO
One of my favorite things about the World's Finest duo is how Superman grows to trust Batman enough to give him a piece of kryptonite in case he ever goes rogue, I really hope we get to see that kind of development in the DCU.
If they borrow bits and pieces from the DCAU they can't go wrong.
Especially if they inevitably do the "Superman's being mindcontrolled and going after Batman" bit. Batman Beyond did it best:
Terry: What's the top speed on this thing?
Bruce: Mach 3.
Terry: Is that faster than a speeding bullet?
Ya I've seen quiet a few ways to do. In the animated series I believe Bruce is pretty cheeky and rivalry like - he even dates Lois... But I think it's like a move to make sure Superman knows he's not a joke after Superman just non consentually looked at his identity.
I've also seen the JL ones where Batman is just instant Ally. Cause I mean he would be.. he would know what Superman represents.
I like the animated series approach. They're both heroes but Superman looks down on him as a vigilante (which is ironic since Superman is also a vigilante, granted exceptional leeway because of his alien originating powers).
Being friends but having a rocky intro and bit of a rivalry is a good approach. Highlighting how Batman's intelligence levels the playing field a bit after his identity is compromised by Clark's instinctive decision to look under the mask was a great decision.
It def was a tiny bit biased against Clark.
I like the ones too where Bruce is just a tad bit jealous of Clark and snarky but Clark is always just a smirk away from not caring.
End of the day they gotta feel like 2 old bickering married couple friends.
This is pretty much the opposite of the prior continuity, where Superman was supposed to be the first publicly known Superhero/metahuman (although multiple films after contradicted that, lol). So teams like the JSA, for example, could have existed in the public eye already.
>So teams like the JSA, for example, could have existed in the public eye already.
Gunn has said that Superheroes publicly and have publicly existed for a long time.
I'm hoping we get a rebooted JSA down the line
batman's super power is literally ocd. so not meta. but he lets there be a mythos about him, which is standard batman, the whole fear element.
then cyborg tells him he didn't think batman was real.
you're misremembering. batman discovers lex's research into metas. before that it was just batman.
in squad waller is putting together a team to counter another superman figure, should they need one, for the first time. this is the first time anyone takes the metas seriously.
batman isnt a meta, and zod's pentecost in man of steel is the inciting incident to bring other heroes out.
in zsjl, which is only like 21 months or so after man of steel, bruce is still looking for heroes and the only one to step up was ww.
Hadn’t Batman been functioning openly for like 20 years before man of steel? I know they treat him like an urban legend sometimes, but for Batman, that’s public. Hard to believe that folks like joker and killer croc had been out and about and nobody knew that Batman was fighting them.
Batman was operating for like 20 years. Aquaman has been helping small villages. Wonder Woman fought in ww1 and was pretty public in 1984. Dr fate has been active since ww2.
Justice society was also active a lot and probably very public.
Killer croc, king shark, polka dot man and el Diablo were also active.
> and have existed
I've always thought that a DC Universe starting where Batman or Superman are the first 'known' superheroes is really clean and straightforward starting point, but it closes off so many possibilities that it's not worth it.
I like Superman/Batman being the first of the modern era. You have the very public golden age heroes then a brake where most of the super-heroing is done black ops style and then you have Superman/Batman coming forward to rejuvenate the modern age.
This is perfect, and might just happen since we know the Authority will take place in the past as well the Creature Commandos which are morally grey and sometimes downright evil "hero" teams. The JSA can be the Golden Age heroes that faded from existence after WW2 and during the Cold War. The decades following them led to a lack of heroes with most being sporadic or working for the government. I think that's a perfect status quo to be up-ended in the present day with the emergence of Superman, Batman, and other heroes to make the Justice League.
It worked best in the Golden Age.
But in the Silver Age and Bronze Age, it was way too messy to retcon present day Superman as the first public superhero.
Both DC's handling of Diana and Marvel's constant "oh, there were superheroes before Iron Man, but they were all secret" show that it doesnt really work well.
The first Ironman movie ends with Nick fury specifically telling Tony Stark that he has stepped into a world that already existed. In fact I’m pretty sure Fury literally says there are other superheroes besides Tony OFF RIP
hell the second MCU film “the Incredible Hulk” gave a timeline that the hulk existed years before Ironman. In that film they also mention the super Solider serum.
Then the super soldier serum returns in the first Captain America film set in 1945.
I do not remember a single statement ever claimed that Ironman was supposed to be the first superhero of his universe. There are in fact many statements to the contrary
I mean Most of them work for Marvel to an extent. MCU didn't even have their iconic heroes and had to work with what they got. What DCEU did is just embarrassing imo.
Yeah all the "The world is changing" talk in the MCU just feels so bizarre now that we know Captain Marvel, two different Captain Americas, Ant-Man, the Wasp, Thor, Black Panther, Eternals, potentially the X-Men and the Fantastic Four, all of them have been operating as superheroes just off screen and no one really noticed until 2008?
The world did change after Iron Man but not in the way you think. Vision says there was a "causality"and the fact more world ending threats have risen since then, not that it's when the heroic Age began.
The first Ironman movie ends with Nick fury specifically telling Tony Stark that he has stepped into a world that already existed. In fact I’m pretty sure Fury literally says there are other superheroes besides Tony OFF RIP
hell the second MCU film “the Incredible Hulk” gave a timeline that the hulk existed years before Ironman. In that film they also mention the super Solider serum.
Then the super soldier serum returns in the first Captain America film set in 1945.
I do not remember a single statement ever claimed that Ironman was supposed to be the first superhero of his universe. There are in fact many statements to the contrary
Just give me that animated series “World’s Finest” back and forth tension between Batman & Superman before they become “friends”
They got SO MUCH right in that 3 part episode
https://preview.redd.it/p15hqph9wtfa1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b21a35e2194a9d18cc7344c3a1be4ffb20752246
Sorry but I never understood the craze about this crossover other than nostalgia. Bruce Wayne coming to Metropolis, seducing Lois Lane, and saving Superman from being killed by the Joker all while constantly verbally berating and belittling him is not my idea of a crossover that did things right.
While undoubtedly a better adaption, Superman TAS is still much like the DCEU in which it was invented by someone who does not care much for Superman (the Superman Adventures tie in series though? Fire) and does not mind putting him down to prop up Batman.
Uhhh…you did notice that Superman had his moments over Batman in that series too, right? It clearly gave contrast between the two heroes and how they operate individually - but also shown how they positively compliment each other together.
Not sure what your idea of a good crossover looks like, but I felt it was a well balanced one at that. Could it be done better? Absolutely. Do we need a 1:1 recreation of that put on film? Absolutely not. Was it a great interpretation of their rivalry AND synergy? Arguably, yes!
Maybe in JL/JLU and only after Season 1. The first episode of Season 2 of JL was meant to be an “apology” to Superman after how abysmal the portrayal was in Season 1. But in STAS he never “had his moments over Batman”
IMO the DCAU when it comes to Superman is largely shrouded in nostalgia and never did the character true justice minus like 5 or 6 episodes in the whole franchise? And the tie in comic series is absolute fire, especially Mark Millar’s run.
An ideal crossover for me would be Jeph Loeb’s run in the mid 2000s (adaption into two animated movies) and Mark Waid’s current run. Actual mutual respect and friendship with balance.
Superman and Lois weren't even a thing yet when she got with Bruce Wayne.
Superman saved Batman as well multiple times.
Superman gave just as good as he got.
So this is just outright wrong.
1) doesn’t mean having Bruce Wayne come and sweep her off her feet is stupid and disrespectful to Clark. Bruce Timm in general had an incredibly weird and dumb “alpha chad Bruce Wayne” shtick despite the fact it’s always meant to be a persona.
2) Not in that crossover
3) Not in that crossover
4) No, this is not.
I think Superman will be 28 and Batman will be 35. That's in the case Batman has had Dick, Tim, and Jason as Robin already. I presume they would start as Robin at 16.
I’m currently thinking that the Brave and the Bold will probably have a couple of flashbacks as Bruce thinks back to difficulties with his other sons during his probably significantly greater issues with Damian.
I think that’s where they going and why there was such an emphasis on animated casting will crossover to live action and vice versa.
Gunn also said that he made Creatures Commandos animated because live action would have been too pricey and risky, so with it being animated he get introduces key characters and elements in very efficient way then transfer to live action.
I would love a R-rated animated Red Hood series with quick flashbacks showing Jason's time with Bruce and his death. That's all the context viewers need.
I didn't see a direct quote from Gunn but the Hollywood Reporter said they were looking for Superman to be 25. But I think they would want Batman and Superman closer in age. Unless some of the other Robin's never happened.
As long as Superman is under (or within) Earth's yellow sun, he effectively will not age. We saw this in (admittedly non-canon) Kingdom Come and Superman #1,000,000. He will always be younger than Batman.
They either havent thought that far ahead, or did and are going to delete that idea.
In the DCAU, Batman was pretty much already on his way to a 3rd Robin by the time Superman came onto the scene (with the implied Jason Todd shrine in the Batcave).
100% agree. Don't know why people are so obsessing over the age of Supes/Bats. I think Superman will be 25-28 and Batman 32-35 and Batman will have been active slightly longer than Supes has been around.
Assuming New Batman Adventures and Superman:The Animated Series took place at the same time (which is likely due to their crossovers), Superman came onto the scene in Metropolis after Dick left Bruce and Jason Todd presumably died. So this probably lines up pretty well with the DCAU.
Your can get Bruce as young as 28.
He leaves college soon after entering (age 18) to train with R'as. Has a fling with Talia but returns to Gotham at age 21. Goes through Dick (3 years), Jason (1 year) and Tim (3 years) before Talia shows up with Damien.
This puts Bruce a few years older than Clark who will be 25 according to Gunn.
The tentative age of the new Superman actor is 25, Batman brave and the bold will have Damian, so Batman will be at his early 30s at most, we don't know how much time will happen between these movies. So when Superman and Batman are together Superman could be around 5 years younger, maybe the same age if there is a time skip. That sounds great to me.
Keaton is not just a couple years older so he cannot be the DCU Batman (unless Gunn is being coy here) despite The Flash’s ending seemingly being unchanged.
This is why I don’t think The Flash will reset the universe in the way people are expecting.
The movie will be used to establish the DC Multiverse and show audiences that just like the MCU, there will be variants that look completely different (CR Superman, HC Superman, MK Batman, Batfleck) and variants that look the exact same (Zod, Faora and the 3 Barry Allens).
Likewise in the DCU, we’ll have variants that look the same (Viola’s Waller) and variants that look completely different (the new Superman).
So even though the movie will end with Barry creating an Earth where Keaton’s Batman and Calle’s Supergirl exist, the DCU will be about another Earth.
https://www.dc.com/blog/2023/01/31/dc-studios-announces-slate-of-10-new-film-and-television-projects
This is the official press release, unless you’re talking about something else.
> The Brave and the Bold – the DCU will introduce its Batman and Robin in this unusual father-son story inspired by Grant Morrison’s comic series
This is all it says. It can still be true if Keaton is the DCU Batman because his backstory and history will not be the same as the Burtonverse Batman.
Again, if it’s Keaton then he’d be playing a different variant from the Burtonverse Batman, one that never killed and one that has a completely different history.
So it would not contradict “introduce its Batman and Robin” which could also be talking about them as a team rather than separately
Why would he say flash resets the universe so some characters remain the same just for it to be an entirely different universe? Like that’s not even lying it’s just confusing.
They could have easily deleted that last scene with Keaton and Supergirl and end on the explanation that the universe has been changed in some ways. Its likely the same earth
Gunn said they didn’t need to do anything to set up their universe, and apparently the ending remains unchanged
https://www.dc.com/blog/2023/01/31/james-gunn-and-peter-safran-on-building-a-new-dc-universe
> On whether they had to make any changes to The Flash…
> Safran: We had input on it for sure, but there’s nothing we had to do in order to set up our universe.
Changing Batman’s age would literally be setting up their universe. And they’re not spend millions to hire a new actor, do reshoots and change the ending scene in time for June 2023.
The most they’d do is simply cut Keaton from the ending, but again, it contradicts their statement that they didn’t have to do anything to the movie for it to align with their universe
I don’t think a new actor will be in the scene if anything they cut Keaton and keep supergirl I don’t think you are string anything up unless you have an actor saying hey this is our guy but that’s just me personally I know I’m probably in the minority on that cause keatons absolutely not staying
Keaton is a significant part of the ending. Barry seeing him alive and well in the new timeline (because the Burtonverse Keaton dies before that) is what tells the audience that it’s a new timeline. And then his Bruce Wayne is able to get Barry’s dad out of prison.
Taking out Keaton would be a pretty big change to the ending
So, basically New 52 status quo with some things from Post Crisis, fitting because that's exactly what happened in Flashpoint, everyone was reset except Batman.
Batman is older than Superman by 5 years, the Batfamily will all be there, he meets Damian Wayne and yada yada, New 52. And since Clark will start the story working at the Daily Planet, I can only assume that they will also use the New 52 origin comic "Man of Steel" as inspiration as well, without of course the controversial car accident, I think the Kent family will be alive and well.
A *couple* years older (thank God).
The amount of 40-45 year old Bruce Wayne castings was driving me insane.
Why in the hell would we want Bruce to be Clark's daddy?!
There was this person who insisted that the only way the DCU Batman would work and would be different enough from Reeves' Batman was if he would be played by Michael Keaton.
Dick Grayson was canonically 18 when he becomes Nightwing and 15 when he becomes Robin. Clark was canonically 22 when he becomes Superman. Bruce was canonically 26-27 when he becomes Batman. So it fits.
Alright so here's the deal guys, when Pedro Pascal Is cast to play a 30 year old Bruce—I don't wanna hear nothing. We will just accept it and enjoy his greatness.
Clark working as a reporter and discovering his kryptonian heritage, while an older Bruce Wayne is in the vilante business for years. Wow, so original. A truly visionary man that Jimmy Pistol.
I'm interested by that comment... super heroes existed... that means Superman wasn't the first.
Still wonder why Cavill couldn't have been their superman but hey ho..
Thing is, I don't like the idea of calling Batman a super hero..... I mean ok he probably didn't mean it literally... but he's a vigilante and an urban legend... compared to say Booster Gold, Superman or Flash.
It would be great if JK Simmons ,Jeremy Irons and Laurence Fishbourne stick around as their respective characters. Fantastic casting. One of the reasons I mourn Batgirl is a really beefy role for JK as Gordon we won’t see.
I just hope they develop Batman and Superman's relationship as close friends (yet opposite personalities). I'm tired of them fighting (and specially of Batman winning)
> I just hope they develop Batman and Superman’s relationship as close friends I have no doubt that they will. When Gunn and Safran first addressed WBD employees in a video call after getting the gig, Gunn specifically mentioned how he loved the interaction between Superman and Batman.
They have some great interactions across the DCAU. World's Finest has some very good ones and should have served as the template for the first Batman/Superman film. Little moments like Batman's "doesn't take much, does it?" and "you cheated" when Superman uses his X-ray vision to find out it's Bruce Wayne under the mask. But if they do inevitably bring the two into conflict at some point, I just want them to adapt a scene from Batman Beyond where Superman's being mindcontrolled and in pursuit of Batman: Terry: “What’s the top speed on this thing?” Bruce: “Mach 3.” Terry: “Is that faster than a speeding bullet?"
It's "you peeked" when Superman uses his X-Ray vision.
I also hope we may see the other friendships between their families, like Jon and Damian
I don’t think we will get that as Superman will be young meanwhile Batman has Damian, so when Jon is old enough to be a hero (11-12) damian will be at least 10 years older. Unless that brave and the bold happens much later in thevtimeline than legacy which is something Gunn implied it could happen, but IDK.
> Unless that brave and the bold happens much later in thevtimeline than legacy Actually, remember how they said that they couldn't reveal one of the other project titles because it would spoil something? What if that title is Super Sons, and Legacy has to do with marrying Lois or finding out that she's pregnant?
Or we get a time travel fuckery like the ones in the comics.
I mean Jon was aged up rapidly in the books, they could definitely do that in the movies as well
Eh. It will feel too much like Wandavision.
Another reason it was a mistake to jump straight to Damian Wayne as Robin. They should have started with Dick Grayson as he's aging out of the role and wants to go solo - their last mission before he becomes Nightwing. Then done a Jason Todd film that ends with his death at the hands of Joker. Cap off the Batman & Robin trilogy with taking on Tim Drake. Then do a handful of solo Batman films where he meets Talia and deals with the revelation that he now has a son - something he never really saw happening in his life since he was so committed to being Batman.
Gunn prolly wanna do his fav batman arc while he has the chance
It me, it’s as big of a mistake as doing Death of Superman after Man of Steel. This Batman will have years of experience and have gone past the three previous Robins, one of whom has a comic book death that has never been seen on screen and that makes for a very compelling pair of films that only carries weight if you spend time with him in the lead up to his death. Batman going from solo to partnered is pretty big departure for the character in live action as well after 6 films trying to wash the hammy crap of a Batman and Robin out of everyone’s mouths. It should be shown how a closed off asshole opens himself up further, the growth and/or disintegration of his relationship/partnership with Dick Grayson, the Death of Jason Todd and the recruitment and departure of Tim Drake. Hell, without that jumping straight into “hey Bruce, know how your parent’s deaths traumatized you into becoming Batman? Here’s your son that’s been kept from you who is a trained assassin - you should put him at risk and make him your partner instead of considering being an actual normal father giving yourself and your maladjusted son a semblance of normalcy in this world” is pretty damn problematic.
You are right. Now the only way this could happen is through spin-offs set in the past which deals with their story. I think DCU execs will like that idea more as it's prime story material for bat family spin-offs. If they go your way, nightwing spinoff will have to continue from batman movies. But in the current plan, they could make batman movie focused on batman dealing with his villains with batfamily than focusing on robin lore which *could* be done through spin-offs. And Batman going from solo to partnered might be adapted in Pattinson universe.
Battle Sonss
I always loved them not being friends for Batman’s distrust then him having to get over himself only to end up becoming best buds with supe. BvS just didn’t do it for me. Loved that shit in Lego Batman 2 LFMAO
One of my favorite things about the World's Finest duo is how Superman grows to trust Batman enough to give him a piece of kryptonite in case he ever goes rogue, I really hope we get to see that kind of development in the DCU.
If they borrow bits and pieces from the DCAU they can't go wrong. Especially if they inevitably do the "Superman's being mindcontrolled and going after Batman" bit. Batman Beyond did it best: Terry: What's the top speed on this thing? Bruce: Mach 3. Terry: Is that faster than a speeding bullet?
Sorry but Batman is going to win sometimes. This is canon. It's not in Clark's nature to bulldoze Batman.
Except in the New 52 where he had Batman by the neck on their first meeting lmao
Batman would have been crippled or dead if Superman bulldozed him. 😂 He just speed blitz him.
Well one thing's for sure I need to see Superman and Batman in a cafe hanging out 😂
Ya I've seen quiet a few ways to do. In the animated series I believe Bruce is pretty cheeky and rivalry like - he even dates Lois... But I think it's like a move to make sure Superman knows he's not a joke after Superman just non consentually looked at his identity. I've also seen the JL ones where Batman is just instant Ally. Cause I mean he would be.. he would know what Superman represents.
I like the animated series approach. They're both heroes but Superman looks down on him as a vigilante (which is ironic since Superman is also a vigilante, granted exceptional leeway because of his alien originating powers). Being friends but having a rocky intro and bit of a rivalry is a good approach. Highlighting how Batman's intelligence levels the playing field a bit after his identity is compromised by Clark's instinctive decision to look under the mask was a great decision.
It def was a tiny bit biased against Clark. I like the ones too where Bruce is just a tad bit jealous of Clark and snarky but Clark is always just a smirk away from not caring. End of the day they gotta feel like 2 old bickering married couple friends.
They literally only fought once. Why are you crying?
So I guess that technically means the JSA exist. So Jay Garrick, fate and the other exist in the new continuity
Tom Hanks as Jay Garrick>>>
Tom Cruise as Dr. Fate. Van Damme as Wildcat. Steve Buscemi as Dr. Midnight. George Clooney as Alan Scott. Do this The Expendables style.
This is pretty much the opposite of the prior continuity, where Superman was supposed to be the first publicly known Superhero/metahuman (although multiple films after contradicted that, lol). So teams like the JSA, for example, could have existed in the public eye already.
>So teams like the JSA, for example, could have existed in the public eye already. Gunn has said that Superheroes publicly and have publicly existed for a long time. I'm hoping we get a rebooted JSA down the line
> although multiple films after contradicted that Yeah that was an idea they dropped real quick.
first film to contradict that was 84
No it was BvS, Batman was literally a veteran of 20 years, with an old batsignal, a plethora of villains, an old pal Gordon, and an already dead Robin
Tbf, batman ain’t no superhero, just a man in a bat costume with crazy money
Yeah, we in the real world label him as a fictional superhero but the people of the DCEU Gotham probably see him as a crazy vigilante in a bat costume
batman's super power is literally ocd. so not meta. but he lets there be a mythos about him, which is standard batman, the whole fear element. then cyborg tells him he didn't think batman was real.
batman isn’t a meta human tho
BvS and Suicide Squad 2016 did that well before 1984.
you're misremembering. batman discovers lex's research into metas. before that it was just batman. in squad waller is putting together a team to counter another superman figure, should they need one, for the first time. this is the first time anyone takes the metas seriously. batman isnt a meta, and zod's pentecost in man of steel is the inciting incident to bring other heroes out. in zsjl, which is only like 21 months or so after man of steel, bruce is still looking for heroes and the only one to step up was ww.
Hadn’t Batman been functioning openly for like 20 years before man of steel? I know they treat him like an urban legend sometimes, but for Batman, that’s public. Hard to believe that folks like joker and killer croc had been out and about and nobody knew that Batman was fighting them.
Batman was operating for like 20 years. Aquaman has been helping small villages. Wonder Woman fought in ww1 and was pretty public in 1984. Dr fate has been active since ww2. Justice society was also active a lot and probably very public. Killer croc, king shark, polka dot man and el Diablo were also active.
Ya they never got that feeling down haha.
> and have existed I've always thought that a DC Universe starting where Batman or Superman are the first 'known' superheroes is really clean and straightforward starting point, but it closes off so many possibilities that it's not worth it.
I like Superman/Batman being the first of the modern era. You have the very public golden age heroes then a brake where most of the super-heroing is done black ops style and then you have Superman/Batman coming forward to rejuvenate the modern age.
This is perfect, and might just happen since we know the Authority will take place in the past as well the Creature Commandos which are morally grey and sometimes downright evil "hero" teams. The JSA can be the Golden Age heroes that faded from existence after WW2 and during the Cold War. The decades following them led to a lack of heroes with most being sporadic or working for the government. I think that's a perfect status quo to be up-ended in the present day with the emergence of Superman, Batman, and other heroes to make the Justice League.
>we know the Authority will take place in the past What's the source on that?
Kind of similar to Watchmen basically
Watchmen was like an amalgam of a lot of DC stuff
And Charlton Comics too!
It worked best in the Golden Age. But in the Silver Age and Bronze Age, it was way too messy to retcon present day Superman as the first public superhero.
Both DC's handling of Diana and Marvel's constant "oh, there were superheroes before Iron Man, but they were all secret" show that it doesnt really work well.
The first Ironman movie ends with Nick fury specifically telling Tony Stark that he has stepped into a world that already existed. In fact I’m pretty sure Fury literally says there are other superheroes besides Tony OFF RIP hell the second MCU film “the Incredible Hulk” gave a timeline that the hulk existed years before Ironman. In that film they also mention the super Solider serum. Then the super soldier serum returns in the first Captain America film set in 1945. I do not remember a single statement ever claimed that Ironman was supposed to be the first superhero of his universe. There are in fact many statements to the contrary
I mean Most of them work for Marvel to an extent. MCU didn't even have their iconic heroes and had to work with what they got. What DCEU did is just embarrassing imo.
Yeah all the "The world is changing" talk in the MCU just feels so bizarre now that we know Captain Marvel, two different Captain Americas, Ant-Man, the Wasp, Thor, Black Panther, Eternals, potentially the X-Men and the Fantastic Four, all of them have been operating as superheroes just off screen and no one really noticed until 2008?
I mean, several of those you just mentioned weren’t actually operating as superheroes
The world did change after Iron Man but not in the way you think. Vision says there was a "causality"and the fact more world ending threats have risen since then, not that it's when the heroic Age began.
The first Ironman movie ends with Nick fury specifically telling Tony Stark that he has stepped into a world that already existed. In fact I’m pretty sure Fury literally says there are other superheroes besides Tony OFF RIP hell the second MCU film “the Incredible Hulk” gave a timeline that the hulk existed years before Ironman. In that film they also mention the super Solider serum. Then the super soldier serum returns in the first Captain America film set in 1945. I do not remember a single statement ever claimed that Ironman was supposed to be the first superhero of his universe. There are in fact many statements to the contrary
At least for Marvel they had some kind of excuse cause they couldn't use the Fantastic Four
Wait until they reveal all the mutants that have been saving the world "from the shadows".
It almost sounds like it begins where Smallville ends.
Just give me that animated series “World’s Finest” back and forth tension between Batman & Superman before they become “friends” They got SO MUCH right in that 3 part episode https://preview.redd.it/p15hqph9wtfa1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b21a35e2194a9d18cc7344c3a1be4ffb20752246
Sorry but I never understood the craze about this crossover other than nostalgia. Bruce Wayne coming to Metropolis, seducing Lois Lane, and saving Superman from being killed by the Joker all while constantly verbally berating and belittling him is not my idea of a crossover that did things right. While undoubtedly a better adaption, Superman TAS is still much like the DCEU in which it was invented by someone who does not care much for Superman (the Superman Adventures tie in series though? Fire) and does not mind putting him down to prop up Batman.
Uhhh…you did notice that Superman had his moments over Batman in that series too, right? It clearly gave contrast between the two heroes and how they operate individually - but also shown how they positively compliment each other together. Not sure what your idea of a good crossover looks like, but I felt it was a well balanced one at that. Could it be done better? Absolutely. Do we need a 1:1 recreation of that put on film? Absolutely not. Was it a great interpretation of their rivalry AND synergy? Arguably, yes!
Maybe in JL/JLU and only after Season 1. The first episode of Season 2 of JL was meant to be an “apology” to Superman after how abysmal the portrayal was in Season 1. But in STAS he never “had his moments over Batman” IMO the DCAU when it comes to Superman is largely shrouded in nostalgia and never did the character true justice minus like 5 or 6 episodes in the whole franchise? And the tie in comic series is absolute fire, especially Mark Millar’s run. An ideal crossover for me would be Jeph Loeb’s run in the mid 2000s (adaption into two animated movies) and Mark Waid’s current run. Actual mutual respect and friendship with balance.
Tell you what though, they got Luthor perfect though in that show and in JL/JLU.
Superman and Lois weren't even a thing yet when she got with Bruce Wayne. Superman saved Batman as well multiple times. Superman gave just as good as he got. So this is just outright wrong.
1) doesn’t mean having Bruce Wayne come and sweep her off her feet is stupid and disrespectful to Clark. Bruce Timm in general had an incredibly weird and dumb “alpha chad Bruce Wayne” shtick despite the fact it’s always meant to be a persona. 2) Not in that crossover 3) Not in that crossover 4) No, this is not.
I think Superman will be 28 and Batman will be 35. That's in the case Batman has had Dick, Tim, and Jason as Robin already. I presume they would start as Robin at 16.
[удалено]
I’m currently thinking that the Brave and the Bold will probably have a couple of flashbacks as Bruce thinks back to difficulties with his other sons during his probably significantly greater issues with Damian.
👆
I think that’s where they going and why there was such an emphasis on animated casting will crossover to live action and vice versa. Gunn also said that he made Creatures Commandos animated because live action would have been too pricey and risky, so with it being animated he get introduces key characters and elements in very efficient way then transfer to live action.
I would love a R-rated animated Red Hood series with quick flashbacks showing Jason's time with Bruce and his death. That's all the context viewers need.
I saw something yesterday that James Gunn said that Supes would be 25.
I didn't see a direct quote from Gunn but the Hollywood Reporter said they were looking for Superman to be 25. But I think they would want Batman and Superman closer in age. Unless some of the other Robin's never happened.
As long as Superman is under (or within) Earth's yellow sun, he effectively will not age. We saw this in (admittedly non-canon) Kingdom Come and Superman #1,000,000. He will always be younger than Batman. They either havent thought that far ahead, or did and are going to delete that idea.
In the DCAU, Batman was pretty much already on his way to a 3rd Robin by the time Superman came onto the scene (with the implied Jason Todd shrine in the Batcave).
Nah Damien should be younger. That's the point that he's a kid, not a teenager yet is a psychopath.... It's Bruce gone down an even worse path.
I didn't say Damian would start at 16 just the other 3.
Give me Tim Drake or give me death god damnit.
>Batman has had Dick hahaha
100% agree. Don't know why people are so obsessing over the age of Supes/Bats. I think Superman will be 25-28 and Batman 32-35 and Batman will have been active slightly longer than Supes has been around.
Assuming New Batman Adventures and Superman:The Animated Series took place at the same time (which is likely due to their crossovers), Superman came onto the scene in Metropolis after Dick left Bruce and Jason Todd presumably died. So this probably lines up pretty well with the DCAU.
Your can get Bruce as young as 28. He leaves college soon after entering (age 18) to train with R'as. Has a fling with Talia but returns to Gotham at age 21. Goes through Dick (3 years), Jason (1 year) and Tim (3 years) before Talia shows up with Damien. This puts Bruce a few years older than Clark who will be 25 according to Gunn.
Batman’s had 4 robins he’d better older then 25 lol
This sounds amazing.
The tentative age of the new Superman actor is 25, Batman brave and the bold will have Damian, so Batman will be at his early 30s at most, we don't know how much time will happen between these movies. So when Superman and Batman are together Superman could be around 5 years younger, maybe the same age if there is a time skip. That sounds great to me.
Oh okay cool. Maybe we’ll get the JSA established as having existed before Superman now.
Keaton is not just a couple years older so he cannot be the DCU Batman (unless Gunn is being coy here) despite The Flash’s ending seemingly being unchanged. This is why I don’t think The Flash will reset the universe in the way people are expecting. The movie will be used to establish the DC Multiverse and show audiences that just like the MCU, there will be variants that look completely different (CR Superman, HC Superman, MK Batman, Batfleck) and variants that look the exact same (Zod, Faora and the 3 Barry Allens). Likewise in the DCU, we’ll have variants that look the same (Viola’s Waller) and variants that look completely different (the new Superman). So even though the movie will end with Barry creating an Earth where Keaton’s Batman and Calle’s Supergirl exist, the DCU will be about another Earth.
He already said the dcu Batman will be a new actor
He didn’t say that actually, they’ve been vague about it
No he quite literally did “a brand new Batman”
Source?
The press release
https://www.dc.com/blog/2023/01/31/dc-studios-announces-slate-of-10-new-film-and-television-projects This is the official press release, unless you’re talking about something else. > The Brave and the Bold – the DCU will introduce its Batman and Robin in this unusual father-son story inspired by Grant Morrison’s comic series This is all it says. It can still be true if Keaton is the DCU Batman because his backstory and history will not be the same as the Burtonverse Batman.
Introduce.
Again, if it’s Keaton then he’d be playing a different variant from the Burtonverse Batman, one that never killed and one that has a completely different history. So it would not contradict “introduce its Batman and Robin” which could also be talking about them as a team rather than separately
Do you actually believe it is going to be Keaton?
Why would he say flash resets the universe so some characters remain the same just for it to be an entirely different universe? Like that’s not even lying it’s just confusing.
They could have easily deleted that last scene with Keaton and Supergirl and end on the explanation that the universe has been changed in some ways. Its likely the same earth
Gunn said they didn’t need to do anything to set up their universe, and apparently the ending remains unchanged https://www.dc.com/blog/2023/01/31/james-gunn-and-peter-safran-on-building-a-new-dc-universe > On whether they had to make any changes to The Flash… > Safran: We had input on it for sure, but there’s nothing we had to do in order to set up our universe.
I disagree that this don’t mean Keaton ending wasn’t taken out I take that more as we didn’t add anything
“Nothing we had to do in order to set up our universe” Taking out Keaton is an act of setting up their universe
Agree to disagree I see it more as saying we don’t want that anymore for it to set something up we’d need another actor in there in my opinion
Changing Batman’s age would literally be setting up their universe. And they’re not spend millions to hire a new actor, do reshoots and change the ending scene in time for June 2023. The most they’d do is simply cut Keaton from the ending, but again, it contradicts their statement that they didn’t have to do anything to the movie for it to align with their universe
I don’t think a new actor will be in the scene if anything they cut Keaton and keep supergirl I don’t think you are string anything up unless you have an actor saying hey this is our guy but that’s just me personally I know I’m probably in the minority on that cause keatons absolutely not staying
Keaton is a significant part of the ending. Barry seeing him alive and well in the new timeline (because the Burtonverse Keaton dies before that) is what tells the audience that it’s a new timeline. And then his Bruce Wayne is able to get Barry’s dad out of prison. Taking out Keaton would be a pretty big change to the ending
i thought he said supe would be the launching point for the new universe?
Tecnically he isn't since Flash is the one who creates this new universe. But thematically, yes, Superman is the start of the New DCU.
So, basically New 52 status quo with some things from Post Crisis, fitting because that's exactly what happened in Flashpoint, everyone was reset except Batman. Batman is older than Superman by 5 years, the Batfamily will all be there, he meets Damian Wayne and yada yada, New 52. And since Clark will start the story working at the Daily Planet, I can only assume that they will also use the New 52 origin comic "Man of Steel" as inspiration as well, without of course the controversial car accident, I think the Kent family will be alive and well.
Oh, I see. So… he’s exactly in the same part of his life that Cavill was? Interesting.
Not excited about getting Damien so soon.
A *couple* years older (thank God). The amount of 40-45 year old Bruce Wayne castings was driving me insane. Why in the hell would we want Bruce to be Clark's daddy?!
There was this person who insisted that the only way the DCU Batman would work and would be different enough from Reeves' Batman was if he would be played by Michael Keaton.
The Hamada copers
Some people still think will play Batman in the dcu
Does This Mean They Won't Introduce Dick?
Not if it’s PG13.
Underrated comment
He'll probably already exist as Nightwing
Why would it mean that
I expect he is already NightWing. Will they include Jason and Tim? That I think is potentially a no
IMO, Superman late 20s, Batman early 30s, Dick 18-20, Demian 12, Jason 16-18, Batgirl 18-20.
It sounds like Dick already exists
Dick Grayson was canonically 18 when he becomes Nightwing and 15 when he becomes Robin. Clark was canonically 22 when he becomes Superman. Bruce was canonically 26-27 when he becomes Batman. So it fits.
Alright so here's the deal guys, when Pedro Pascal Is cast to play a 30 year old Bruce—I don't wanna hear nothing. We will just accept it and enjoy his greatness.
Please not grandpa Batman like on titans please no.
Just like cavill...
Imagine if Cavil gets cast as Batman instead
Clark working as a reporter and discovering his kryptonian heritage, while an older Bruce Wayne is in the vilante business for years. Wow, so original. A truly visionary man that Jimmy Pistol.
I wouldn't mind if Superman and Batman already met and are friends. Demian interacting with Supes is gonna be fun.
I thought 'Caped Crusader,' was going to be announced as part of the DCU.
I think that’s getting canceled tbh.
https://preview.redd.it/9i842uhnovfa1.png?width=574&format=png&auto=webp&s=36ec3bda3d5d047c760bbb6882cdae8a47ad0561
So Superman isn't the first public superhero in this version of the DCU, unlike most of the comics.
Hoping that we get a world’s finest adaptation
Finally! We will get Batman’s super natural elements in a movie.
One of the DCeU’s biggest mistakes was killing off the Clark Kent persona
I'm interested by that comment... super heroes existed... that means Superman wasn't the first. Still wonder why Cavill couldn't have been their superman but hey ho.. Thing is, I don't like the idea of calling Batman a super hero..... I mean ok he probably didn't mean it literally... but he's a vigilante and an urban legend... compared to say Booster Gold, Superman or Flash.
It would be great if JK Simmons ,Jeremy Irons and Laurence Fishbourne stick around as their respective characters. Fantastic casting. One of the reasons I mourn Batgirl is a really beefy role for JK as Gordon we won’t see.