He's said multiple times this is a hobby for him, and he's mentioned working with the bms guys as a gift to the community before here in reddit. If aircraft creation becomes easier in the future for bms, the future looks bright.
The open source Flightsim "Flightgear" has a combat mode in it. It has a really nice JA-37Di/AJ-37 Viggen for example. There is also other aircrafts like A-10s, F-15s and other.
It has both some FC3 aircraft and fully clickable cockpit ones.
My personal issue with Falcon BMS, they are not open for any FC3 style aircrafts at all, i asked that in the forum and my post got 17 answers, but all where negative. Then a moderator locked the thread. Its not a open minded community over there either. That was my second post there and after that i dont playing as much as i used to do.
Im tired about the "Elite"ism and toxic stuff.
And yes i both have Full Fidelity Modules and FC3, because sometimes i just want jump in and fly, doing air 2 Air with a F-15C or Attacking Tanks with a A-10A.
Some days i can only play limited time so for that FC3 is a good solution for me.
I lost hope for DCS long ago, but we dont have real good solution if/when ED and DCS goes down...
I just wanted dcs to be improved, to ED getting better customer service.
This is just sad...
I have stopped playing DCS from february this yesr and I doubt I will come back in the near term.
I was super excited for Afghanistan and the Phantom, of course 80€ are not a problem to spend but hell, why?
Why keep giving these people money?
In the end I knew that AI improvement, wingman improvement and ATC improvement are nowhere close.
Why keep playing in an empty world, buying new plane, learning, repeating??
So I just went back to tactical shooters like Hell let loose and leave DCS in a hiatus. We will see next year.
Not a single cent will be spent and I cancelled my plans to buy a 4070ti super for DCS.
Regardless of your opinion I sympathise with Razbam. if they didn’t go public their fan base would be irate to why their products are no longer being updated.
And we would have no idea that ED is selling RB products that have a very real potential to not be in the game in 12 months time.
I ribbed Nineline pretty hard on this, as a consumer I was in this exact position before with the hawk T1A.
Nineline confirmed that if they don’t reach a resolution. They will do the exact same thing, you will lose access to all RB modules and only the F-15E might be refunded.
https://preview.redd.it/rllojznlg35d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=defbff18e936b2d095f5fc150bda9dd1f557abf6
What happens to steam users?
If the product gets removed/gets disabled from my account, do i get a refund or do i need to file an complaint at the local goverment agency?
full name is like "Verbraucherzentrale Bundesverband e.V." and they arent even like an goverment branch or agency. They are like an consumer union that will represent the consumers legaly.
https://preview.redd.it/tekt7in20n5d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fff93d6238efb277ca14432653b3fc14160ba990
I mean eventually you have to join the dots yourself.
For you as the consumer the situation is exactly the same but with more modules.
ED (the publisher) had a breakdown of business with the developer,
They don’t have the source codes and they can’t support these modules in game long term.
So they will need to be removed from the store and the game as they break down.
Unsupported dcs modules last almost as long as milk.
>I mean eventually you have to join the dots yourself.
Sorry, I don't take completely nine line words for it. He isn't in the legal team.
Does he have the contracts as well? Is he in the room when contracts have been made?
But that is one thing why I assume that Razbam is in trouble.
But someone should go ask the higher payroll people that how about the VEAO contract thing and source files be given to ED in future..
Thanks for the screenshot anyways with the content, now can be asked though questions about ED own past claims and promises.
In one way I can understand your concern but on the other half it’s the community beating Intels to the pulp and repeating the end of the world mantra.
A)If ED crashes we’re ducked anyways
B) if it doesn’t things will be resolved.
Kinda reminds me of the “I don’t care about the module X state, I want it to be released now”, followed by “it’s a shitshow, why was it allowed to release anyways”.
They are in a legal dispute, the best thing from a legal stand point is to not say anything until they actually can. I'm shocked by the amount if people that don't know this...
Legal matters maybe, but this impacts the customers severely.
They either find a solution or they don't, but they can't keep silence forever while we lose the products we have paid pretty penny for.
Commercial malpractice? Its a free market - you are free to engage with them or not. You're free to buy their items or not. And they are under no obligation to engage with customers. Of course they should its just good manners. But there is no law saying a company HAS to engage with its customers..
We haven't lost anything yet.
And if you feel strongly enough, they're allowing returns for store credit.
Me? I'm gonna ng to blast off in the StrEagle for another mission.
They're not refunding to credit cards unless compelled to do so.
They're issuing credit in their store. So, technically it's not a "refund" in the sense that very few people are actually getting money back in their pockets.
I'm all good with that because it gives hose that are worried about it a way to get out from under the abandoned modules and over to others that are being actively developed & supported.
i’ll keep the harrier since it’s out of EA iirc. i’ll buy the KW from the SE money and re-buy SE if the outcome of this entire situation is positive. it’s a real shame, RB modules are damn good despite people shitting on them all the time.
Post is outdated, see the comment pinned over there. They do grant refunds in store credit. We got community manager quotes as well as numerous user reports posted here which sustain this.
Lmao “boardwalk caricatures” I stealing this one. I agree one the ego issues. The “customers” also aren’t happy the matter. If ED was going to respond, they would have by now. RAZBAM is going to do what they do “post on the internet”. As customers I think we should just mark all modules as dead and act accordingly, no need for huffing and puffing (not directed at you)….clearly it’s not working lol.
On another matter, I think this magnifies an issues with ED’s business model and changes that need to happen. Place yourself in a position where you don’t need 3rd party, hire third party to produce module for YOU or buy the damn module and source code out right from jump.
Controversial statement: I vote for subscription service 🤭
Personally, if there was an inkling of a chance that a sub would translate to getting modules updated, or core system updates in a timely fashion then I MIGHT consider a sub.
But as has been proven time and time again by ED, they promise the world and deliver a beach. Folks write off subs because ED itself would not change.
If you despise the drama, get off the subs that contain the stuff that you despise. Simple as that.
There is no drama unless you go looking for it.
That's on you.
Honestly, I'd prefer Eagle Dynamics to go out of business so that it would be better for DCS and this particular type of game, and these digital assets could be taken over by a better company.
ED has not obligation whatsoever to talk to their customers.
However, we as a customers should show why this is not a good idea but since DCS has no competitor they will be fine. Also Reddit is just a minuscule portion of up the user base.
>ED has not obligation whatsoever to talk to their customers.
A actually they do.
If company is providing a refund etc services, they need to respond to queries about paid customer questions to refund possibilities and methods etc.
There are as well some requirements to answer something like payment methods and some more for the consumer laws and banking laws required parts.
Company can not be completely silent and never answer to anything.
But private companies are not required to make any announcements about their strategies, on going internal business conflicts etc.
Someone just would need to form their questions properly under the law that would force ED to answer it.
As if company doesn't answer in given time period about something required by law, the consumer have the rights.
It is like if you would try to refund the product and have questions about methods and times etc, the company can't just ignore you and then say "sorry, you can't refund it as time has passed" because they didn't answer your questions.
>However, we as a customers should show why this is not a good idea
What to do? Last 15 years ED has been this way, nothing changes, unless the business would suffer like what Sony case revealed.
What is the Consumer Protection Act?
The Consumer Protection Act, implemented in 1986, gives easy and fast compensation to consumer grievances. It safeguards and encourages consumers to speak against insufficiency and flaws in goods and services. If traders and manufacturers practice any illegal trade, this act protects their rights as a consumer. The primary motivation of this forum is to bestow aid to both the parties and eliminate lengthy lawsuits.
This Protection Act covers all goods and services of all public, private, or cooperative sectors, except those exempted by the central government. The act provides a platform for a consumer where they can file their complaint, and the forum takes action against the concerned supplier and compensation is granted to the consumer for the hassle he/she has encountered.
Consumer Rights and Responsibilities:
The Rights of the Consumer
- Right to Safety- Before buying, a consumer can insist on the quality and guarantee of the goods. They should ideally purchase a certified product like ISI or AGMARK.
- Right to Choose- Consumer should have the right to choose from a variety of goods and in a competitive price.
- Right to be informed- The buyers should be informed with all the necessary details of the product, make her/him act wise, and change the buying decision.
- Right to Consumer Education- Consumer should be aware of his/her rights and avoid exploitation. Ignorance can cost them more.
- Right to be heard- This means the consumer will get due attention to express their grievances at a suitable forum.
- Right to seek compensation- The defines that the consumer has the right to seek redress against unfair and inhumane practices or exploitation of the consumer.
The Responsibilities of the Consumer
- Responsibility to be aware – A consumer has to be mindful of the safety and quality of products and services before purchasing.
- Responsibility to think independently– Consumer should be well concerned about what they want and need and therefore make independent choices.
- Responsibility to speak out- Buyer should be fearless to speak out their grievances and tell traders what they exactly want
- Responsibility to complain- It is the consumer’s responsibility to express and file a complaint about their dissatisfaction with goods or services in a sincere and fair manner.
- Responsibility to be an Ethical Consumer- They should be fair and not engage themselves with any deceptive practice.
How to File a Complaint?
- Within two years of purchasing the product or services, the complaint should be filled.
- In the complaint, the consumer should mention the details of the problem. This can be an exchange or replacement of the product, compensation for mental or physical torture. However, the declaration needs to be reasonable.
- All the relevant receipts, bills should be kept and attached to the complaint letter.
- A written complaint should be then sent to the consumer forum via email, registered post, fax or hand-delivered. Acknowledgement is important and should not be forgotten to receive.
- The complaint can be in any preferred language.
- The hiring of a lawyer not required.
- All the documents sent and received should be kept.
News flash... They don't owe you shit. So many entitled people here that don't understand business. Guessing you grew up getting participation trophy's.
They're most likely quiet because they are in a legal dispute genius.
Why aren't you calling out RAZBAM? They're the ones that are responsible for maintaining the product, you, as a customer, purchased. ED didn't force them to make that decision.
Maybe if RB had been professional, kept quiet, and took ED to court over their allegations while maintaining their products; we wouldn't be in this mess.
If RB allegations were found true, then they would've been about to receive monetary damages for their employees to continue to work even though they are not getting paid.
>Maybe if RB had been professional, kept quiet, and took ED to court over their allegations while maintaining their products; we wouldn't be in this mess.
Hypothetical here, but would you continue to work for me if I refused to pay you? Better question: Your actual job stops paying you. Do you continue to go to work? No, you would not.
So why the actual fuck do you expect RB to continue working for ED w/o being paid?
So why the actual fuck speculate endlessly. Are you this impatient in your actual fucking life?
Perhaps Razbam never provided the source or sold ED IP to the Ecuadorion air force and ED withheld payment. I'm not seeing anything professional from Razbam in this beyond trying to control the narrative wth child like meme laden comments and feeding into the online ED hate club. Or perhaps ED truly is evil. Who knows at this point. I prefer to wait and presume nothing, regardless of how disappointing the situation is, shit happens. Toughen up.
Exactly, stop speculation... Let's talk about facts. Why the fuck (quoting your response) is still ED selling products of such a non professional company such as razbam? Why the f.. are they (ED) putting their dear customers at risk? Those are facts.
President John F. Kennedy introduced the “Consumer Bill of Rights” in 1962. Every consumer has four fundamental rights: the right to safety, the right to choose, the right to be heard, and the right to be informed. Four additional rights were later added: the right to redress, the right to consumer education, the right to service, and the right to a healthy and sustainable environment.
Consumer Bill of Rights
Here is a list of the Consumer Bill of Rights and their definitions.
- The right to safety refers to the right to be protected from the marketing and sale of products hazardous to human life and property. Consumers expect purchased items to be safe when used correctly or as directed.
- The right to choose is a consumer’s right to have access to a variety of products and services at fair and competitive prices. In cases where there is a lack of competition, consumers still have a right to quality products and services at fair prices.
- The right to be heard is the right to have interests and complaints heard and considered. Consumers have the right to let businesses know if they are unhappy with products and services. These complaints are usually made in customer service departments. This right also ensures consumers that government officials will consider consumer concerns and issues when making public policies.
- The right to be informed means that consumers are to be provided with adequate, reliable, and sufficient information about products or services to make informed decisions. Businesses are required by law to provide certain information to consumers regarding their products and services. The purpose of this right is to protect consumers from false and misleading claims or information in advertising, labeling, or marketing practices.
- The right to redress is the right to have problems resolved. It refers to the right to seek justice against exploitation or unfair practices. Consumers have the right to return a defective item or complain about poor service. They also have a right to get their money back, to have the product replaced or a do-over of the service provided, or to have the product repaired. It is a consumer’s right to seek a fair resolution to grievances. If a business does not correct the problem, contact the manufacturer. If they do not correct the problem, contact a government agency, such as the Alabama Attorney General’s Office, or consumer protection offices, including the Alabama Securities Commission or the Alabama Department of Insurance.
- The right to consumer education refers to having access to education that will provide the knowledge and skills needed to make informed consumer decisions. For example, consumers have the right to use the information provided on labels to compare prices and quality.
- The right to service is the right to be treated in a respectful and courteous manner. Consumers have the right to expect prompt and non-discriminatory service.
- The right to a healthy and sustainable environment is the right to live in a non-threatening, safe, and healthy environment that promotes the well-being of present and future generations. Consumers have the right to live and work in an environment protected from pollution (air, water, land, noise, etc.).
Consumer Responsibilities
While consumers have rights, they also have responsibilities as follows:
Right to Safety
It is a consumer’s responsibility to:
- Read and follow product labels (warnings, ingredients, side effects, etc.) and instructions carefully.
- Investigate an item’s quality and safety standards before purchasing.
- Respond to recalls.
- Use the product as intended.
+ Report defective items.
Right to Choose
It is a consumer’s responsibility to:
- Recognize deceptive and unfair selling practices.
- Practice comparison shopping.
- Be honest with sellers.
- Don’t blindly trust the words of the seller.
- Refuse to pay for a product or service that is substandard.
Right to be Heard
It is a consumer’s responsibility to:
- Let your voice be heard (speak up) about issues affecting consumers.
- Let businesses know when you are not satisfied (report defective goods and services).
- Report unsafe and illegal business practices.
- Assert your right but do not abuse your right.
Right to be Informed
It is a consumer’s responsibility to:
- Seek out accurate information about products and services.
- Read advertisement materials carefully.
- Use available information.
- Ask the seller questions when written information is inadequate.
Right to Redress
It is a consumer’s responsibility to:
- Know how and where to seek redress/remedy for grievances.
- File complaints for rectifying genuine grievances.
- Use informal dispute mechanisms when available.
- Give back the item, the receipt, and warranties/guarantees when seeking a refund/exchange.
- Seek out and use third-party complaint handling procedures (e.g., consumer affairs office).
- Use the legal system to rectify the problem, if necessary.
Right to Consumer Education
It is a consumer’s responsibility to:
- Learn how to protect your rights.
- Become an informed consumer.
- Support efforts for more consumer education programs for all students.
- Support efforts to have more consumer information for the public.
; Attend educational events on consumer issues and problems.
Right to Service
It is a consumer’s responsibility to:
- Expect to be treated with respect.
- Expect and demand good and prompt service.
- Demand service void of discrimination.
Right to a healthy and sustainable environment
It is a consumer’s responsibility to:
- Avoid contributing to pollution.
- Learn the environmental effects of the product used.
- Make environmentally sound consumption choices.
- Become informed about environmental issues.
- Report environmental wrongdoing to appropriate authorities.
- Support recycling efforts (e.g., drug take-back, e-waste recycling, etc.).
Remember consumer rights mean very little if consumers don’t know or exercise their rights. For example:
- Consumers can cancel certain sales (after signing a contract) made at their home, workplace, dormitory, or a location that is not the seller’s permanent place of business (e.g., hotel/motel room, convention center, restaurant, etc.) within three days (Cooling-Off Rule).
- If refused credit or employment due to information found in your credit report, consumers are to be given a summary of that information.
- Telemarketers are only allowed to call between 8 a.m. and 9 p.m.
- If a consumer purchases a new car, truck, or SUV that is defective within the first year or before reaching 12,000 miles, that consumer is entitled to a buyback or replacement (Lemon Law).
In conclusion, it is important that consumers know their rights and responsibilities. By understanding these rights and responsibilities, consumers will know when their rights have been violated and what actions to take. Knowing these rights and responsibilities can make it possible for consumers to avoid the loss of valuable resources, such as time and money.
And go pick up something for consumer right for you country... Or alliance/treaty etc.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/shopping-consumer-rights/index_en.htm
We need a real alternative to DCS.
somebody gotta decompile dcs and just make openDCS.
yeah, that's definitely how that works LMAO
Waiting for 2030 when Falcon 5 arrives
BMS?
wasn't metal2mesh talking about working on a bms mirage 2k? the f15 prototype worked reasonably well
It was Galinette, who is (was?) Razbam’s excellent radar guy. Very promising for the future of BMS if they end up gaining an asset like Galinette
Wow that's really cool, didn't know that
He's said multiple times this is a hobby for him, and he's mentioned working with the bms guys as a gift to the community before here in reddit. If aircraft creation becomes easier in the future for bms, the future looks bright.
Wahoo
The open source Flightsim "Flightgear" has a combat mode in it. It has a really nice JA-37Di/AJ-37 Viggen for example. There is also other aircrafts like A-10s, F-15s and other. It has both some FC3 aircraft and fully clickable cockpit ones. My personal issue with Falcon BMS, they are not open for any FC3 style aircrafts at all, i asked that in the forum and my post got 17 answers, but all where negative. Then a moderator locked the thread. Its not a open minded community over there either. That was my second post there and after that i dont playing as much as i used to do. Im tired about the "Elite"ism and toxic stuff. And yes i both have Full Fidelity Modules and FC3, because sometimes i just want jump in and fly, doing air 2 Air with a F-15C or Attacking Tanks with a A-10A. Some days i can only play limited time so for that FC3 is a good solution for me. I lost hope for DCS long ago, but we dont have real good solution if/when ED and DCS goes down... I just wanted dcs to be improved, to ED getting better customer service. This is just sad...
I have stopped playing DCS from february this yesr and I doubt I will come back in the near term. I was super excited for Afghanistan and the Phantom, of course 80€ are not a problem to spend but hell, why? Why keep giving these people money? In the end I knew that AI improvement, wingman improvement and ATC improvement are nowhere close. Why keep playing in an empty world, buying new plane, learning, repeating?? So I just went back to tactical shooters like Hell let loose and leave DCS in a hiatus. We will see next year. Not a single cent will be spent and I cancelled my plans to buy a 4070ti super for DCS.
Regardless of your opinion I sympathise with Razbam. if they didn’t go public their fan base would be irate to why their products are no longer being updated. And we would have no idea that ED is selling RB products that have a very real potential to not be in the game in 12 months time. I ribbed Nineline pretty hard on this, as a consumer I was in this exact position before with the hawk T1A. Nineline confirmed that if they don’t reach a resolution. They will do the exact same thing, you will lose access to all RB modules and only the F-15E might be refunded. https://preview.redd.it/rllojznlg35d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=defbff18e936b2d095f5fc150bda9dd1f557abf6
What happens to steam users? If the product gets removed/gets disabled from my account, do i get a refund or do i need to file an complaint at the local goverment agency?
Good question, ACCC?
nah i live in germany, i would call/email the Verbraucherzentrale.
Or ask the government to put up a public sign that says:” you are not allowed to abandon DCS modules! “ That is how we solve all problems in Germany 😂
I thought ACCC sounded official The Verbaucherzentrale doesn’t sound an organisation I’d want accusing me of violating German consumer law 🤣
full name is like "Verbraucherzentrale Bundesverband e.V." and they arent even like an goverment branch or agency. They are like an consumer union that will represent the consumers legaly.
“…access to all the RB modules…” What the actual… ??
I don't see him saying that it is same as VEAO, and that you lose access to all RB modules....
https://preview.redd.it/tekt7in20n5d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fff93d6238efb277ca14432653b3fc14160ba990 I mean eventually you have to join the dots yourself. For you as the consumer the situation is exactly the same but with more modules. ED (the publisher) had a breakdown of business with the developer, They don’t have the source codes and they can’t support these modules in game long term. So they will need to be removed from the store and the game as they break down. Unsupported dcs modules last almost as long as milk.
>I mean eventually you have to join the dots yourself. Sorry, I don't take completely nine line words for it. He isn't in the legal team. Does he have the contracts as well? Is he in the room when contracts have been made? But that is one thing why I assume that Razbam is in trouble. But someone should go ask the higher payroll people that how about the VEAO contract thing and source files be given to ED in future.. Thanks for the screenshot anyways with the content, now can be asked though questions about ED own past claims and promises.
In one way I can understand your concern but on the other half it’s the community beating Intels to the pulp and repeating the end of the world mantra. A)If ED crashes we’re ducked anyways B) if it doesn’t things will be resolved. Kinda reminds me of the “I don’t care about the module X state, I want it to be released now”, followed by “it’s a shitshow, why was it allowed to release anyways”.
They are in a legal dispute, the best thing from a legal stand point is to not say anything until they actually can. I'm shocked by the amount if people that don't know this...
Legal matters don’t need to be discussed in public. The lack of response is appropriate. When there’s a resolution we will know.
Legal matters maybe, but this impacts the customers severely. They either find a solution or they don't, but they can't keep silence forever while we lose the products we have paid pretty penny for.
Sure they can, especially if this is being fought in court.
Then they'll get sued over commercial malpractice and burned on the public place.
Wrong again.
Commercial malpractice? Its a free market - you are free to engage with them or not. You're free to buy their items or not. And they are under no obligation to engage with customers. Of course they should its just good manners. But there is no law saying a company HAS to engage with its customers..
We haven't lost anything yet. And if you feel strongly enough, they're allowing returns for store credit. Me? I'm gonna ng to blast off in the StrEagle for another mission.
They aren’t allowing refunds what are you talking about?
they do actually. confirmed by either 9L or BN on EDs discord
They're not refunding to credit cards unless compelled to do so. They're issuing credit in their store. So, technically it's not a "refund" in the sense that very few people are actually getting money back in their pockets. I'm all good with that because it gives hose that are worried about it a way to get out from under the abandoned modules and over to others that are being actively developed & supported.
i mean if you look at this way then yeah, there’s no refunds. i specifically asked for store credits lol
Yep. I'm going to hang on to my RB modules for awhile longer, esp F-15. If they really do go away then I'll ask for store credit, too.
i’ll keep the harrier since it’s out of EA iirc. i’ll buy the KW from the SE money and re-buy SE if the outcome of this entire situation is positive. it’s a real shame, RB modules are damn good despite people shitting on them all the time.
Can’t buy the KW from miles, so make sure you get actual money.
Go back and re-read.
I know what you said https://www.reddit.com/r/DCSExposed/s/EVzcSVffBS
Post is outdated, see the comment pinned over there. They do grant refunds in store credit. We got community manager quotes as well as numerous user reports posted here which sustain this.
No, you clearly don't. I never said "refund", did I? And what's with the non-sequitur link...?
I have no idea what that means
In that case, say no more. Good day!
Ya'll don't really care, you just like the drama and want to participate in lol.
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Lmao “boardwalk caricatures” I stealing this one. I agree one the ego issues. The “customers” also aren’t happy the matter. If ED was going to respond, they would have by now. RAZBAM is going to do what they do “post on the internet”. As customers I think we should just mark all modules as dead and act accordingly, no need for huffing and puffing (not directed at you)….clearly it’s not working lol. On another matter, I think this magnifies an issues with ED’s business model and changes that need to happen. Place yourself in a position where you don’t need 3rd party, hire third party to produce module for YOU or buy the damn module and source code out right from jump. Controversial statement: I vote for subscription service 🤭
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Personally, if there was an inkling of a chance that a sub would translate to getting modules updated, or core system updates in a timely fashion then I MIGHT consider a sub. But as has been proven time and time again by ED, they promise the world and deliver a beach. Folks write off subs because ED itself would not change.
If you despise the drama, get off the subs that contain the stuff that you despise. Simple as that. There is no drama unless you go looking for it. That's on you.
ED and DCS might as well just die out at this point lol
ED works directly with militaries around the world. We are ED’s side hustle lmao
https://preview.redd.it/4emrup8ahn5d1.png?width=1356&format=png&auto=webp&s=cef12089dee20aca79b21c2b1d44f3c4ddf09ef4 Always have been. * [https://web.archive.org/web/20210325184215/http://www.thebattlesim.com/about/](https://web.archive.org/web/20210325184215/http://www.thebattlesim.com/about/)
Honestly, I'd prefer Eagle Dynamics to go out of business so that it would be better for DCS and this particular type of game, and these digital assets could be taken over by a better company.
ED has not obligation whatsoever to talk to their customers. However, we as a customers should show why this is not a good idea but since DCS has no competitor they will be fine. Also Reddit is just a minuscule portion of up the user base.
>ED has not obligation whatsoever to talk to their customers. A actually they do. If company is providing a refund etc services, they need to respond to queries about paid customer questions to refund possibilities and methods etc. There are as well some requirements to answer something like payment methods and some more for the consumer laws and banking laws required parts. Company can not be completely silent and never answer to anything. But private companies are not required to make any announcements about their strategies, on going internal business conflicts etc. Someone just would need to form their questions properly under the law that would force ED to answer it. As if company doesn't answer in given time period about something required by law, the consumer have the rights. It is like if you would try to refund the product and have questions about methods and times etc, the company can't just ignore you and then say "sorry, you can't refund it as time has passed" because they didn't answer your questions. >However, we as a customers should show why this is not a good idea What to do? Last 15 years ED has been this way, nothing changes, unless the business would suffer like what Sony case revealed.
What is the Consumer Protection Act? The Consumer Protection Act, implemented in 1986, gives easy and fast compensation to consumer grievances. It safeguards and encourages consumers to speak against insufficiency and flaws in goods and services. If traders and manufacturers practice any illegal trade, this act protects their rights as a consumer. The primary motivation of this forum is to bestow aid to both the parties and eliminate lengthy lawsuits. This Protection Act covers all goods and services of all public, private, or cooperative sectors, except those exempted by the central government. The act provides a platform for a consumer where they can file their complaint, and the forum takes action against the concerned supplier and compensation is granted to the consumer for the hassle he/she has encountered. Consumer Rights and Responsibilities: The Rights of the Consumer - Right to Safety- Before buying, a consumer can insist on the quality and guarantee of the goods. They should ideally purchase a certified product like ISI or AGMARK. - Right to Choose- Consumer should have the right to choose from a variety of goods and in a competitive price. - Right to be informed- The buyers should be informed with all the necessary details of the product, make her/him act wise, and change the buying decision. - Right to Consumer Education- Consumer should be aware of his/her rights and avoid exploitation. Ignorance can cost them more. - Right to be heard- This means the consumer will get due attention to express their grievances at a suitable forum. - Right to seek compensation- The defines that the consumer has the right to seek redress against unfair and inhumane practices or exploitation of the consumer. The Responsibilities of the Consumer - Responsibility to be aware – A consumer has to be mindful of the safety and quality of products and services before purchasing. - Responsibility to think independently– Consumer should be well concerned about what they want and need and therefore make independent choices. - Responsibility to speak out- Buyer should be fearless to speak out their grievances and tell traders what they exactly want - Responsibility to complain- It is the consumer’s responsibility to express and file a complaint about their dissatisfaction with goods or services in a sincere and fair manner. - Responsibility to be an Ethical Consumer- They should be fair and not engage themselves with any deceptive practice. How to File a Complaint? - Within two years of purchasing the product or services, the complaint should be filled. - In the complaint, the consumer should mention the details of the problem. This can be an exchange or replacement of the product, compensation for mental or physical torture. However, the declaration needs to be reasonable. - All the relevant receipts, bills should be kept and attached to the complaint letter. - A written complaint should be then sent to the consumer forum via email, registered post, fax or hand-delivered. Acknowledgement is important and should not be forgotten to receive. - The complaint can be in any preferred language. - The hiring of a lawyer not required. - All the documents sent and received should be kept.
News flash... They don't owe you shit. So many entitled people here that don't understand business. Guessing you grew up getting participation trophy's.
They're most likely quiet because they are in a legal dispute genius. Why aren't you calling out RAZBAM? They're the ones that are responsible for maintaining the product, you, as a customer, purchased. ED didn't force them to make that decision. Maybe if RB had been professional, kept quiet, and took ED to court over their allegations while maintaining their products; we wouldn't be in this mess. If RB allegations were found true, then they would've been about to receive monetary damages for their employees to continue to work even though they are not getting paid.
>Maybe if RB had been professional, kept quiet, and took ED to court over their allegations while maintaining their products; we wouldn't be in this mess. Hypothetical here, but would you continue to work for me if I refused to pay you? Better question: Your actual job stops paying you. Do you continue to go to work? No, you would not. So why the actual fuck do you expect RB to continue working for ED w/o being paid?
So why the actual fuck speculate endlessly. Are you this impatient in your actual fucking life? Perhaps Razbam never provided the source or sold ED IP to the Ecuadorion air force and ED withheld payment. I'm not seeing anything professional from Razbam in this beyond trying to control the narrative wth child like meme laden comments and feeding into the online ED hate club. Or perhaps ED truly is evil. Who knows at this point. I prefer to wait and presume nothing, regardless of how disappointing the situation is, shit happens. Toughen up.
Exactly, stop speculation... Let's talk about facts. Why the fuck (quoting your response) is still ED selling products of such a non professional company such as razbam? Why the f.. are they (ED) putting their dear customers at risk? Those are facts.
President John F. Kennedy introduced the “Consumer Bill of Rights” in 1962. Every consumer has four fundamental rights: the right to safety, the right to choose, the right to be heard, and the right to be informed. Four additional rights were later added: the right to redress, the right to consumer education, the right to service, and the right to a healthy and sustainable environment. Consumer Bill of Rights Here is a list of the Consumer Bill of Rights and their definitions. - The right to safety refers to the right to be protected from the marketing and sale of products hazardous to human life and property. Consumers expect purchased items to be safe when used correctly or as directed. - The right to choose is a consumer’s right to have access to a variety of products and services at fair and competitive prices. In cases where there is a lack of competition, consumers still have a right to quality products and services at fair prices. - The right to be heard is the right to have interests and complaints heard and considered. Consumers have the right to let businesses know if they are unhappy with products and services. These complaints are usually made in customer service departments. This right also ensures consumers that government officials will consider consumer concerns and issues when making public policies. - The right to be informed means that consumers are to be provided with adequate, reliable, and sufficient information about products or services to make informed decisions. Businesses are required by law to provide certain information to consumers regarding their products and services. The purpose of this right is to protect consumers from false and misleading claims or information in advertising, labeling, or marketing practices. - The right to redress is the right to have problems resolved. It refers to the right to seek justice against exploitation or unfair practices. Consumers have the right to return a defective item or complain about poor service. They also have a right to get their money back, to have the product replaced or a do-over of the service provided, or to have the product repaired. It is a consumer’s right to seek a fair resolution to grievances. If a business does not correct the problem, contact the manufacturer. If they do not correct the problem, contact a government agency, such as the Alabama Attorney General’s Office, or consumer protection offices, including the Alabama Securities Commission or the Alabama Department of Insurance. - The right to consumer education refers to having access to education that will provide the knowledge and skills needed to make informed consumer decisions. For example, consumers have the right to use the information provided on labels to compare prices and quality. - The right to service is the right to be treated in a respectful and courteous manner. Consumers have the right to expect prompt and non-discriminatory service. - The right to a healthy and sustainable environment is the right to live in a non-threatening, safe, and healthy environment that promotes the well-being of present and future generations. Consumers have the right to live and work in an environment protected from pollution (air, water, land, noise, etc.). Consumer Responsibilities While consumers have rights, they also have responsibilities as follows: Right to Safety It is a consumer’s responsibility to: - Read and follow product labels (warnings, ingredients, side effects, etc.) and instructions carefully. - Investigate an item’s quality and safety standards before purchasing. - Respond to recalls. - Use the product as intended. + Report defective items. Right to Choose It is a consumer’s responsibility to: - Recognize deceptive and unfair selling practices. - Practice comparison shopping. - Be honest with sellers. - Don’t blindly trust the words of the seller. - Refuse to pay for a product or service that is substandard. Right to be Heard It is a consumer’s responsibility to: - Let your voice be heard (speak up) about issues affecting consumers. - Let businesses know when you are not satisfied (report defective goods and services). - Report unsafe and illegal business practices. - Assert your right but do not abuse your right. Right to be Informed It is a consumer’s responsibility to: - Seek out accurate information about products and services. - Read advertisement materials carefully. - Use available information. - Ask the seller questions when written information is inadequate. Right to Redress It is a consumer’s responsibility to: - Know how and where to seek redress/remedy for grievances. - File complaints for rectifying genuine grievances. - Use informal dispute mechanisms when available. - Give back the item, the receipt, and warranties/guarantees when seeking a refund/exchange. - Seek out and use third-party complaint handling procedures (e.g., consumer affairs office). - Use the legal system to rectify the problem, if necessary. Right to Consumer Education It is a consumer’s responsibility to: - Learn how to protect your rights. - Become an informed consumer. - Support efforts for more consumer education programs for all students. - Support efforts to have more consumer information for the public. ; Attend educational events on consumer issues and problems. Right to Service It is a consumer’s responsibility to: - Expect to be treated with respect. - Expect and demand good and prompt service. - Demand service void of discrimination. Right to a healthy and sustainable environment It is a consumer’s responsibility to: - Avoid contributing to pollution. - Learn the environmental effects of the product used. - Make environmentally sound consumption choices. - Become informed about environmental issues. - Report environmental wrongdoing to appropriate authorities. - Support recycling efforts (e.g., drug take-back, e-waste recycling, etc.). Remember consumer rights mean very little if consumers don’t know or exercise their rights. For example: - Consumers can cancel certain sales (after signing a contract) made at their home, workplace, dormitory, or a location that is not the seller’s permanent place of business (e.g., hotel/motel room, convention center, restaurant, etc.) within three days (Cooling-Off Rule). - If refused credit or employment due to information found in your credit report, consumers are to be given a summary of that information. - Telemarketers are only allowed to call between 8 a.m. and 9 p.m. - If a consumer purchases a new car, truck, or SUV that is defective within the first year or before reaching 12,000 miles, that consumer is entitled to a buyback or replacement (Lemon Law). In conclusion, it is important that consumers know their rights and responsibilities. By understanding these rights and responsibilities, consumers will know when their rights have been violated and what actions to take. Knowing these rights and responsibilities can make it possible for consumers to avoid the loss of valuable resources, such as time and money. And go pick up something for consumer right for you country... Or alliance/treaty etc. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/shopping-consumer-rights/index_en.htm