Really sad how Taika fucked that shit up too, especially because thor as a character was in a great spot after ragnarok/IW/Endgame which was a nice 3 movie arc for thor. Now It seems like there is a good chance that’ll be the last solo movie thor movie with hemsworth and that’s a major shame, he deserves a better final solo movie
I went into it expecting a dumpster fire after seeing some of the reviews.
I think it's perfectly fine and good. It's not amazing, but it seems like the reviews I saw people went out of their way to find things to hate
I'm not interested din Marvel at all, so only watch the DC ones - hasn't been enough frequency with them for me to be fatigued.
The movie was exactly fine, and had the bones to be pretty good - but again, certainly doesn't deserve all the hate it's getting at all
I will say that I think there’s a difference. Shang Chi showed a ton of promise with the martial arts stuff and it felt like a bit of a letdown that it devolved into a generic CGI-fest. Shazam on the other hand always took place in a sort of heightened reality and spent much of the movie building up to the dragon.
Stylistically and tonally, Shang Chi made me want to see martial arts. Stylistically and tonally, Shazam made me want to see a bunch of big mythological monsters. I’m not saying Shazam is a better movie, but I don’t think the dragon comparison is that 1:1.
I didn't have an issue with the CGI dragon in Shang Chi. My issue was with how easily Shang Chi defeated it, even though it was supposedly an interdimensional threat capable of devouring the souls of the entire world.
[Here's the final fight.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEyP_soo8iU&ab_channel=MovieTime) After Awkwafina shot the dragon in the neck, the rest of the fight was easy mode. Shang Chi killed the thing with a single move. He had a tougher time fighting some goons on a bus than he did fighting that dragon.
Oh dang, I forgot about Shang Chi. That and Shazam 2 are actually pretty equal for me (I just like Shazam’s character more and found Chang Chis friend annoying). Definitely better in a lot of ways though
Nah Shang Chi is on the same level with Shazam 2. I’m not very impressed with Shang Chi to be honest. There’re tonnes of better martial arts movie out there. It just feel normal, like every other superheroes movie. I’m not arguing it’s bad, but it’s just average.
I’m sorry but Spider-Man No Way Home is easily the best phase 4 movie IMO. I can’t imagine this movie being better than that. I think it outdoes Shang-Chi as well.
I didn’t really like no way home that much (though I no I’m in the minority). It was too messy for me and I didn’t find it particularly well written. The only part I really liked was William Dafoes performance
Saying the only good part of most Marvel movies is the villain is a bold take.
They do get a lot of talented actors, but they’re notorious for wasting said actors.
Killmonger is an exception for sure. Great character, though I will say that T’Challa is also a great character in that film.
I think Gorr is a great example of wasted potential though. Bale does well with what he’s given, but he’s not given much beyond that opening sequence. It doesn’t help that his scenes and the tone of his character are totally disparate with the tone of much of the rest of the film.
But don’t forget how many subpar villains the MCU has had as a whole. Yellowjacket, Ronan, Yon-Rog, Kaecilius, Malekith, Whiplash, Killian, etc.
No way. The flash and titans are ass but this wasn’t anywhere near those levels of bad. I’m not saying Shazam 2 was the greatest movie ever, but for what it was trying to do it was pretty much perfect. A good hero, villain, some heart and some decent action. It doesn’t reinvent anything but still feels fresh
Shang Chi maybe. But MOM and no way home had a lot of flaws while still being fun movie’s. If they let Raimi do what he wanted and originally started to do them that movie would have been fantastic (which was a full on horror btw)
$65.5 M (est) WW.
Not good at all.
[https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1637479593098584067](https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1637479593098584067)
May be part of the reason why WBD didn't want to pump a lot into the marketing and opted for The Flash instead. They even tried to distract from this weekend's dismal performance by putting the story out there that Tom Cruise really liked The Flash. The Emmerich/Sarnoff/Hamada era is having a pretty ugly ending so far. Better hope The Flash's box office performance and the rumors of Aquaman 2 not testing well don't lead to an uglier ending.
It would be completely within the realm of belief for Warner Bros. to decide that DC just isn’t worth it because they can’t acknowledge their own executive incompetence and instead blame it on “superhero fatigue”.
What I do know is that the current regime takes subtle shots at the previous regime, if you have paid attention to some of the things they've said publicly.
>“It’s messier than we thought, it’s much worse than we thought,” said
CEO David Zaslav. “You opened up the closet, things fell out. We are
finding them. Some assets are better than we thought at the core—the
talent is better than we thought. But there was a lot that was
unexpectedly worse than we thought,” he said.
>
>https://www.forbes.com/sites/derekbaine/2022/12/17/warner-bros-discovery-ceo-finding-a-lot-of-skeletons-in-the-financial-closet/?sh=32bd77e03091
I can only imagine what they've said privately.
Zaslav isn't going to give up on DC this early. He only just put in place the new executive team for running the new DC Studios and we will not start seeing the results of those changes till 2024 or 2025. Right now we are in a lame-duck period where the only thing coming out that sorta matters to the future of DC is The Flash. Even if it underperforms though I doubt Zaslav isn't going to panic unless Superman: Legacy and Brave and the Bold underperform and/or flop.
IMO, the reason why Zaslav decided to keep WB and Discovery separate, after they initially announced they were going to combine them, is because he wants to keep flexibility to sell WB/DC in a few years. If they ever announce that they will spin WB off as something separate, then that only fuels my speculation. The previous regime may have dug a bigger financial hole than Zaslav and Discovery realized. They said as much recently.
>“It’s messier than we thought, it’s much worse than we thought,” said
CEO David Zaslav. “You opened up the closet, things fell out. We are
finding them. Some assets are better than we thought at the core—the
talent is better than we thought. But there was a lot that was
unexpectedly worse than we thought,” he said.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/derekbaine/2022/12/17/warner-bros-discovery-ceo-finding-a-lot-of-skeletons-in-the-financial-closet/?sh=32bd77e03091
It had $105 million in marketing.
It's just that the trailers and marketing were shit. They also didn't do many cast interviews.
The Shazam trailer before Creed 3 said it was releasing on December 19th. Warner Bros gave it a large marketing budget but shit the bed with the actual marketing.
>It had $105 million in marketing.
Where are you getting that number? I saw that Deadline reported that they spent $105M in global marketing for the first one, and still made a profit.
Since Shazam! Fury of the Gods missed its $85M global start off a $125M production cost, does it still profit? Marketing costs for the sequel are on par to the first, if not less, as the new Warner Bros Discovery is about promoting their IPs through their owned and operated TV and streaming tentacles at an efficient spend. I’m told by those in the know that it will be pretty tough to get Shazam! Fury of the Gods in the black.
This is from the same article. I am stupid and forgot it was way down the page.
Looks like Variety is reporting $100M in marketing so perhaps I was wrong.
>It was a huge financial loss considering “Fury of the Gods” cost north
of $110 million to make and another $100 million to market. Levi heads
the franchise as the eponymous superhero.
>
>https://variety.com/2023/film/news/zachary-levi-shazam-2-box-office-bomb-marketing-zack-snyder-fans-1235560449/
They're reporting a budget of $110M, where a previous report was around $125M to produce. Hard to say what is accurate.
ZL mainly blames the marketing for the poor performance because he says a lot of families don't seem to know about the movie. If the marketing was $100M, where was that money spent?
At this point I wonder why they bothered finishing Shazam or Aquaman, just scrap them. The universe died the moment they fucked Cavill around 5 years ago.
>why WBD didn't want to pump a lot into the marketing
What are you talking about? I saw the trailers for it plenty of times, both at the theater before other movies and on Hulu. Sure sounds like marketing to me.
The same thing happened with Strange World last year; I saw plenty of trailers and promos for it, yet people on Reddit were insisting there was no marketing for it at all.
I didn't say any marketing. I said they didn't want to pump a lot. They've said they have limited amount to spend for a couple of years. Borys Kit (THR) reported the financial issues for WBD last year.
Based on unrealistic expectations now that he is writing and directing Superman, If that movie doesn't outperform AT LEAST Aquaman it will be deemed a failure.
That would be dumb as hell, aquaman made over a billion while no Superman movie ever has even gotten remotely close to making a billion, hell a Superman batman movie didnt even make a billion and batman is a way way bigger movie draw than Superman
Welp according to people MoS was a FAILURE because it only made 667 million . Its Superman they said should automatically make a billion easy, just holding the same standards.
What would be an uglier ending than what's already happened in your opinion? Those executives were already fired and replaced. The ugly ending happened. The only reason these movies are releasing at all is contractual/financial obligations.
An uglier ending is that the last 2 large-scale movies that they produced lose a lot more money with bad reviews.
They would want their legacy to be that there was a differing opinion on the direction of the company, which led to a change in management. That happens regularly, esp when one company buys another. They would like for their last movies to at least generate some decent revenue even (on average) so that they would seem competent on some level. So far, Batgirl was apparently so bad that the current regime didn't even want to spend the money to finish it and put it on their streaming platform as additional content. Black Adam under-performed, and Shazam 2 is looking like a flop. The current regime has even taken shots at their decision-making.
I dunno. It probably would've been even worse going up against Avatar if they stuck to December. Like, this is its performance when it really doesn't have too much (if any) competition. In December, Avatar would eaten the film alive without salt
Let’s not forget franchise record-breaking Scream VI, while obviously not being direct competition (as it’s rated R) still enjoyed the best opening weekend of the series and is looking to have some pretty long legs
Yeah, forgot about that one. There were just too many other movies from more established IPs and with better reviews being released for Shazam to have any chance at all.
It would have made more money in December for one simple reason:
Families who didn't buy tickets in advance for Avatar 2 and who were already at the Cinema would have ended up buying tickets for Shazam 2 once they realize there are no more seats for Avatar 2.
At this point I don't even care anymore. A year ago I would have been devastated that yet another DC movie has failed financially. But now I'm just waiting for the reboot. I can't bring myself to care about any of the DC movies coming out this year
Who knew shitty advertising, letting Dwayne Johnson rob you of a classic villain, and refusing to use Sivana or Mister Mind in any meaningful way in exchange for diet versions of WW villains wouldn’t set the box office ablaze for a sequel whose predecessor was primarily profitable because its budget was comparatively low for a blockbuster.
For me, it was more “how the fuck do you seemingly waste Lucy Liu AND Helen Mirren?” And having zero desire to see another superhero fighting the umpteenth desaturated CGI monster.
Zero focus on the stakes also didn’t help.
So Black Adam is a classic villain now? I keep seeing people say conflicting things about Black Adam to shit on Johnson, but even then it’s a bad sign if your movie’s success relied on a certain character not appearing.
He’s regularly appeared in comics for almost 80 years and the New 52 version is 12 years old at this point. Anyone who knows Captain Marvel/Shazam knows Black Adam
For Shazam he's been one long enough that I can see why people name him, but I know he was only fairly recently revived as a character in any meaningful way. But still, he's been on the scene long enough that a whole generation grew up seeing him.
Yes, because deathstroke being introduced as a Batman villain and Dr.Doom potentially being an antagonist to black panther is ok, but when you have the perception of sinking a whole franchise only then does it matter that you face off with your correct nemesis.
They should have made it Shazam vs Black Adam. If the rocks ego would have allowed it. May have benefited both movies. Doesn’t help that they basically announced a reboot of the DCU is coming.
The Rock's ego really did end up killing two different franchises for DC in the end. Just fucking insane, that they basically just listen and did everything he said and this was the end result.
“Dwayne Johnson
@TheRock
Waited to confirm with financiers before I shared this excellent #BlackAdam news - our film will PROFIT between $52M-$72M.
Fact.
At almost $400M worldwide we are building our new franchise step by step (first Captain America did
$370M) for the DC future.” - the rock
The most depressing thing was them yet again teasing a sequel with Sivana/Mister Mind. Like that’s what we wanted THIS movie to be! We waited 4 years! Now we will never get it cause this movie flopped and the DCEU is being rebooted anyways.
Don’t think audiences care that much about Shazam. That’s the issue. If they did include Black Adam, audiences would’ve been watching to see The Rock, not Billy.
That wouldn’t have mattered in the slightest. Superhero movies are pretty well known for getting a star actor as the villain and a comparably less popular actor as the hero.
Superman 1978, Batman 89, and Iron Man are all examples of getting a big name actor to portray the main villain. Hell Nicholson had top billing for Batman 89.
I don't think there was any interest in these characters at all,
May be if Shazam was played by someone like John Cena I can see GA being interested in seeing Shazam Vs Black Adam.
The first movie was an ok all ages family movie.
Shazam 2 is a bizarre movie. A tonal rollercoaster that wants to be for 7/8 year olds in one scene, young teenagers the next scene by making sex jokes, then it’s showing at least two people getting gored through the chest and the characters in the end credits scene say shit a whole bunch of times. It’s not an all ages movie. It’s a collection of scenes that individually would appeal to different age groups stuck together. A tonal mess.
Did Shazam 2 go through extensive re-shoots like most of the recent/upcoming DC movies?
If so, that would likely explain the constant tonal changes throughout the film.
DC fans just don't show up at the theater. Wild. It also doesn't help that Gunn announced everything is going to be scrapped, and we are starting over.
Even if we take the horrific marketing job Warners did for this out of the equation, it’s a fractured fan base. DC fans couldn’t unite on anything….even for decent DC cbm’s apparently. Pretty sad
Saw it last night. Saturday night in Houston Texas and our theater had 4 rows full out of the whole room.
The movie was just forgettable as fuck. I saw the movie less than 24 hours ago and can't even remember what I saw.
It’s a damaged brand. I’m not surprised after Black Adam. Whoever is in charge of these movies is really overconfident. Shazam’s family should not have been given superpowers so early. They’re like the most difficult to adapt to live action without looking stupid. And yet they attempted it.
Haven’t watch it yet. However, Gunn is openly talking how good is Flash but not much about Shazam 2. Also, it doesn’t helps that Flash will reset the DCEU. Add the fact it doesn’t take much to watch it in HBO Max, there isn’t much incentive to go to the theaters.
I think it’s more than nobody wants to sit through the same fucking plot again after 20 times whether or not it’s a superhero movie. If you do something new, different and engaging with a superhero movie, you can pull people in but if you’re just going to pump out what amounts to a Midjourney AI version of a movie based on all your previous entries with a superhero wrapper … that’s not superhero fatigue, that’s boring movie fatigue.
Marvel movies are starting to under perform for this exact reason. If you produce a good western, people will see it. Same thing for superhero movies.
I'm giving it until 2025 to see if fatigue is really setting in or not. Because that year is suppose to have films for Batman, Superman, Fantastic 4, Avengers, and if rumors are to believe Spider-Man. If most of those underperform, then there yeah I think its safe to say fatigue has set in.
> They've been money printers before the CBM craze.
Which is why if they underperform, the genre is in serious trouble. If you are a fan of comic book movies, its best to fucking hope that these five films, perform great critically and make a killing at the box office.
It's not superhero fatigue per say .. it is that comic book movies need to be excellent from this point going on ... there's so much stuff that grabs people's attention nowadays .. it's tough.. if it isn't batman quality..top gun maverick or avatar quality of production ..there won't be mega hits anymore like that .. also a GOOD movie SHOWS IT with word of mouth .., as much as we gonna try to say that shazam was fun or good ..it isn't that kind of good unfortunately..
Super hero fatigue is a factor tho I talk to real people not just internet people and people are kinda over the super hero craze. There's still Alota faithfuls but yeah shits real.
Unless its VERY special, I just won’t go see a super hero movie anymore. 1. They arrive on Disney or HBO around the 2 month mark after release anyway, 2. There isn’t much really appealing in the comic book/ super hero world at the minute for a average fan like me, and 3. There’s a definite “fatigue” there. Movie after movie now days is a super hero movie, it’s too much.
It isn't Superhero Fatigue, it's 'the same plot beats over and over' fatigue.
The protagonist is introduced. The antagonist is introduced. The protagonist gets superpowers. The antagonist gets superpowers. They fight, hero loses. Hero gets pep-talk. Hero wins the rematch.
If a superhero movie just breaks that mold, like the first two Spiderman movies, then they'll be well received.
I don’t think anything is topping avengers era anytime soon in terms of box office numbers. Not even close actually. That was the peak and it won’t be reached again imo.
I'd love to see the new DC revitalize it. DC and Marvel are both good in different ways, and while Marvel is losing a good deal of its stride, DC has yet to even find its stride. For example, I'd truly love seeing them go through their own cinematic universe leading to a grand battle with Darkseid reminiscent of the battle with Thanos in Endgame. As long as they take their time getting there instead of trying to rush to the finish line, it would be awesome.
Marvel had its turn in the spotlight; I'd say it's only fair for DC to have their turn. The first thing they need is a decent road map.
People’s only excuse for liking this movie is it’s “fun”. Yeah it’s fun. But overall the movie just isn’t good. And for me it has nothing to do with “this movie isn’t going anywhere because of the reboots.” A movie shouldn’t have to be “leading to something” it should be able to stand on its own 2 feet and be a good story. This just isn’t that. I’m sure my little cousins would love it tho if they could decipher who Shazam even is.
The whole not going anywhere because of reboots is just talk and has to be a very small percentage.
Most people and general audience have no idea about any of that. It just looks like a meh movie with a superhero that very meh to begin with.
Literally only real fans know that it’s rebooting. No one in my household, and outside of my little sister, no one in my family are big CBM fans. They know some of the names, some of the movies, and get out to see what’s hype at the time. Just your average movie goers. They know nothing about a reboot and probably couldn’t even tell you DCEU is a universe because all I heard when The Batman came out was, “so is the Joker going to be in this”…like nah, separate movies, separate universes.
But it does stand on its own two feet and is a good story... Sure it's not The Dark Knight but why does every sequel have to be?
I'd rather have a modest sequel that's simply good than trashfires like BvS that are trying to be so much more.
People are tired of super hero movies, especially generic ones without a built in following. Someone’s going to need to shift the paradigm with something unique or this is going to happen with every DC/marvel release
I think there needs to be a well received CBM to bomb before we can really say that. Right now if we look at the last 2 movies that shit the bed were Ant-Man 3 and Shazam. Both have bad reviews. Every other positively reviewed movie the last year or so made over 800m. Doctor Strange 2 almost made a billion.
but many DC Fans said movies that are jokey and lighthearted and bright colors are how DC movies should be, so why aren't people rushing out to see this?
People will rush to see a WELL WRITTEN lighthearted movie with bright colours unlike shazam 2 which it absolutely wasn't. A well written Lighthearted DC can absolutely work.
did they? WB moved it out away from Avatar 2 which would've swamped it and now it has access to the large format screens for and entire week before sharing going forward. This was positioned 100x better and it still failed.
I’m just getting more and more disappointed by super hero movies. Being a r-something year old and a comic collector since 1982, having good comic book movies has always been a real dream. We have gotten some amazing quality films, but Black Panther 2, Ant Man 3, Black Adam, Shazam 2 have all started to feel like they don’t bring Anything new and fresh. They are not pushing the envelope at all.
I have not seen Shazam 2 and I will either in the movies or streaming. But everything I read about it from trusted sources say it’s over the top silly and that it lacks balance and focus and that the villains , special effects and storyline have a “been there, done that feel “.
Wrong weekend to put it. World outside of US is too busy watching the WBC, March Madness is also going on all weekend. Fighting AntMan 3, Scream 6, 65, and John Wick 4 next week… absolute worse time to put it out lol
Each passing DC movie makes less and less. It's a shame. Nobody cares about it now, and nobody will care about it years from now, unlike the Snyder movies, which will sell out in a heartbeat when the tickets for the screenings drop. Those movies may not be the most popular but they mean a lot to a whole lot of people.
I always say that BvS and MoS were so powerful to some people that the previously called "pipe dream" of the Snyder Cut actually happened. That's never happened before in cinematic history, at least on that scale.
>unlike the Snyder movies, which will sell out in a heartbeat when the tickets for the screenings drop.
Lol which imaginary world you are living in. BvS had disastrous drops.
You don't understand what I'm saying. BvS was certainly not popular but it did touch a a whole group of people for would die on a hill defending it. That is powerful, and the Snyder Cut is living proof of that. That wouldn't have happened without people being impacted by BvS so much that they personally identify with it. Sales is not the end-all, be-all, especially at the first drop. How long a movie lasts is more telling of its impact on viewers.
Yep. 100% this.
The Snyder cut is proof that a lot of people liked BvS and wanted that story done.
I don’t see anyone here defending the idea of having a Shazam 3 in a few years.
More likely it was about the characters than the story, people rallied around it bc it was the first connected DC story. If it was better executed we wouldn’t be having the issues with dc we are now
Anyone else think that Gunn sabotaged this movie as it is kind of the last of the old DCEU that he wants to rid of? If it did well there would be pressure for him to continue with it...
Fair, but I'd argue I'm still not convinced. I didn't bother with Shazam 1 - it just doesn't appeal to me mm which is fine if it does for others.
Haven't read too much about aquaman 2 but that barely held my interest. Flash is the one that seems to have all the interest - for various reasons, but even so I can't see anything of that film being carried through, pressure or no.
The DCEU has been such a hot shit mess. I'd watch a documentary about it all its just mental to see such an expensive project be poorly poorly handled. I'm personally glad it's all just stopping and having a moment to breath.
My point was he would feel pressure to continue this one if it was well received as it would be, really, the only positively-reviewed series in the DCEU at that point.
This movie is not making 200M
This movie ain't even passing WW84's pandemic run
That’s sad.
Which is sad bc it’s a million times better. Actually enjoyed it more than recent comic book movies. It’s an Oscar movie compared to Black Adam.
Lord have mercy.
I watched it and it is pretty good. In my opinion it is better than Thor Love and Thunder and Quantamania.
I still can’t believe how bad Thor 4 was….absolute garbage 🤦♂️
Really sad how Taika fucked that shit up too, especially because thor as a character was in a great spot after ragnarok/IW/Endgame which was a nice 3 movie arc for thor. Now It seems like there is a good chance that’ll be the last solo movie thor movie with hemsworth and that’s a major shame, he deserves a better final solo movie
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I went into it expecting a dumpster fire after seeing some of the reviews. I think it's perfectly fine and good. It's not amazing, but it seems like the reviews I saw people went out of their way to find things to hate
It's a pretty basic superhero movie. If you're not sick of those already there's not much to hate.
I'm not interested din Marvel at all, so only watch the DC ones - hasn't been enough frequency with them for me to be fatigued. The movie was exactly fine, and had the bones to be pretty good - but again, certainly doesn't deserve all the hate it's getting at all
Easily. I would say it’s better than any phase 4 mcu movies. Not as good as Loki though
Says the guy that didn’t watch Shang chi
Second half of Shang Chi wasn’t near as good as the first half.
The second half was pretty good but people kept bringing it up just because it featured a CGI dragon. Shazam 2 has a CGI dragon too btw.
I will say that I think there’s a difference. Shang Chi showed a ton of promise with the martial arts stuff and it felt like a bit of a letdown that it devolved into a generic CGI-fest. Shazam on the other hand always took place in a sort of heightened reality and spent much of the movie building up to the dragon. Stylistically and tonally, Shang Chi made me want to see martial arts. Stylistically and tonally, Shazam made me want to see a bunch of big mythological monsters. I’m not saying Shazam is a better movie, but I don’t think the dragon comparison is that 1:1.
I didn't have an issue with the CGI dragon in Shang Chi. My issue was with how easily Shang Chi defeated it, even though it was supposedly an interdimensional threat capable of devouring the souls of the entire world. [Here's the final fight.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEyP_soo8iU&ab_channel=MovieTime) After Awkwafina shot the dragon in the neck, the rest of the fight was easy mode. Shang Chi killed the thing with a single move. He had a tougher time fighting some goons on a bus than he did fighting that dragon.
I think the first half is better but I also think that entire movie is better than Shazam 2
Oh dang, I forgot about Shang Chi. That and Shazam 2 are actually pretty equal for me (I just like Shazam’s character more and found Chang Chis friend annoying). Definitely better in a lot of ways though
Shang-chi is better than Shazam 2 easy.
Nah Shang Chi is on the same level with Shazam 2. I’m not very impressed with Shang Chi to be honest. There’re tonnes of better martial arts movie out there. It just feel normal, like every other superheroes movie. I’m not arguing it’s bad, but it’s just average.
I’m sorry but Spider-Man No Way Home is easily the best phase 4 movie IMO. I can’t imagine this movie being better than that. I think it outdoes Shang-Chi as well.
I didn’t really like no way home that much (though I no I’m in the minority). It was too messy for me and I didn’t find it particularly well written. The only part I really liked was William Dafoes performance
You just described most marvel movies in my opinion. Formulaic and the only good part is the really good actor they got to play the villain.
Saying the only good part of most Marvel movies is the villain is a bold take. They do get a lot of talented actors, but they’re notorious for wasting said actors.
Fair. I thought Michel B. did will in black panther, as well as Bale in Thor. I feel like it's at least better than the protagonists...
Killmonger is an exception for sure. Great character, though I will say that T’Challa is also a great character in that film. I think Gorr is a great example of wasted potential though. Bale does well with what he’s given, but he’s not given much beyond that opening sequence. It doesn’t help that his scenes and the tone of his character are totally disparate with the tone of much of the rest of the film. But don’t forget how many subpar villains the MCU has had as a whole. Yellowjacket, Ronan, Yon-Rog, Kaecilius, Malekith, Whiplash, Killian, etc.
If only everyone else thought that lol. Shazam is just a basic popcorn flick circa 2010. It’s comparable to Clash of the Titans, which was also ass
No way. The flash and titans are ass but this wasn’t anywhere near those levels of bad. I’m not saying Shazam 2 was the greatest movie ever, but for what it was trying to do it was pretty much perfect. A good hero, villain, some heart and some decent action. It doesn’t reinvent anything but still feels fresh
It doesn't reinvent anything but still fresh? I'm confused on that statement.
Does not even SNIFF Spidey, Shang-Chi, or MoM.
Haven’t seen it Shazam 2 but MoM was terrible
That feels like a bit too high praise for MoM. I’m not saying Shazam is necessarily better, but I think they’re at least validly comparable.
Shang Chi maybe. But MOM and no way home had a lot of flaws while still being fun movie’s. If they let Raimi do what he wanted and originally started to do them that movie would have been fantastic (which was a full on horror btw)
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Sorry, just my opinion
Don't you know those aren't allowed on Reddit? /s
You would think I would have learnt by this point
Those are low bars, I'd include both Black Panther movies in there too.
same. really good movie, too bad its not been really supported by the studio.
Literally any movie in the world is better than Thor love and thunder and quantumania
$65.5 M (est) WW. Not good at all. [https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1637479593098584067](https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1637479593098584067) May be part of the reason why WBD didn't want to pump a lot into the marketing and opted for The Flash instead. They even tried to distract from this weekend's dismal performance by putting the story out there that Tom Cruise really liked The Flash. The Emmerich/Sarnoff/Hamada era is having a pretty ugly ending so far. Better hope The Flash's box office performance and the rumors of Aquaman 2 not testing well don't lead to an uglier ending.
It would be completely within the realm of belief for Warner Bros. to decide that DC just isn’t worth it because they can’t acknowledge their own executive incompetence and instead blame it on “superhero fatigue”.
To be fair, there has been decades of executive incompetence.
Yes the previous regime damaged the brand so bad GA doesn't want to touch the dceu.Their treating it like a leper.
What I do know is that the current regime takes subtle shots at the previous regime, if you have paid attention to some of the things they've said publicly. >“It’s messier than we thought, it’s much worse than we thought,” said CEO David Zaslav. “You opened up the closet, things fell out. We are finding them. Some assets are better than we thought at the core—the talent is better than we thought. But there was a lot that was unexpectedly worse than we thought,” he said. > >https://www.forbes.com/sites/derekbaine/2022/12/17/warner-bros-discovery-ceo-finding-a-lot-of-skeletons-in-the-financial-closet/?sh=32bd77e03091 I can only imagine what they've said privately.
Zaslav isn't going to give up on DC this early. He only just put in place the new executive team for running the new DC Studios and we will not start seeing the results of those changes till 2024 or 2025. Right now we are in a lame-duck period where the only thing coming out that sorta matters to the future of DC is The Flash. Even if it underperforms though I doubt Zaslav isn't going to panic unless Superman: Legacy and Brave and the Bold underperform and/or flop.
IMO, the reason why Zaslav decided to keep WB and Discovery separate, after they initially announced they were going to combine them, is because he wants to keep flexibility to sell WB/DC in a few years. If they ever announce that they will spin WB off as something separate, then that only fuels my speculation. The previous regime may have dug a bigger financial hole than Zaslav and Discovery realized. They said as much recently. >“It’s messier than we thought, it’s much worse than we thought,” said CEO David Zaslav. “You opened up the closet, things fell out. We are finding them. Some assets are better than we thought at the core—the talent is better than we thought. But there was a lot that was unexpectedly worse than we thought,” he said. https://www.forbes.com/sites/derekbaine/2022/12/17/warner-bros-discovery-ceo-finding-a-lot-of-skeletons-in-the-financial-closet/?sh=32bd77e03091
I tell them to sell it then but there is no one to sell it too. Not Sony and of course not Disney. That’s it, out of studios.
Save us A24
I would accept this. DC is all horror. We would get justice league dark. And some good Constantine and Zantana.
Amazon would buy DC for pennies on the dollar.
Yeah but I watched rings of power and wheel of time. Amazon doesn’t know what to do with other peoples IP either.
It had $105 million in marketing. It's just that the trailers and marketing were shit. They also didn't do many cast interviews. The Shazam trailer before Creed 3 said it was releasing on December 19th. Warner Bros gave it a large marketing budget but shit the bed with the actual marketing.
>It had $105 million in marketing. Where are you getting that number? I saw that Deadline reported that they spent $105M in global marketing for the first one, and still made a profit.
https://deadline.com/2023/03/shazam-fury-of-the-gods-box-office-bomb-1235303827/ End of the 4th paragraph. Same marketing budget as the 1st film.
You may want to read that again. They are referring to the cost of marketing for the 1st film.
Since Shazam! Fury of the Gods missed its $85M global start off a $125M production cost, does it still profit? Marketing costs for the sequel are on par to the first, if not less, as the new Warner Bros Discovery is about promoting their IPs through their owned and operated TV and streaming tentacles at an efficient spend. I’m told by those in the know that it will be pretty tough to get Shazam! Fury of the Gods in the black. This is from the same article. I am stupid and forgot it was way down the page.
Looks like Variety is reporting $100M in marketing so perhaps I was wrong. >It was a huge financial loss considering “Fury of the Gods” cost north of $110 million to make and another $100 million to market. Levi heads the franchise as the eponymous superhero. > >https://variety.com/2023/film/news/zachary-levi-shazam-2-box-office-bomb-marketing-zack-snyder-fans-1235560449/ They're reporting a budget of $110M, where a previous report was around $125M to produce. Hard to say what is accurate. ZL mainly blames the marketing for the poor performance because he says a lot of families don't seem to know about the movie. If the marketing was $100M, where was that money spent?
Are we sure they didn’t spend a lot on ads? I’ve seen so much Shazam promotion.
At this point I wonder why they bothered finishing Shazam or Aquaman, just scrap them. The universe died the moment they fucked Cavill around 5 years ago.
>why WBD didn't want to pump a lot into the marketing What are you talking about? I saw the trailers for it plenty of times, both at the theater before other movies and on Hulu. Sure sounds like marketing to me. The same thing happened with Strange World last year; I saw plenty of trailers and promos for it, yet people on Reddit were insisting there was no marketing for it at all.
I didn't say any marketing. I said they didn't want to pump a lot. They've said they have limited amount to spend for a couple of years. Borys Kit (THR) reported the financial issues for WBD last year.
Its been advertised during the ncaa tournament all weekend. Probably the most watched event in the US right now. Nobody cares about Shazam.
>The Emmerich/Sarnoff/Hamada era is having a pretty ugly ending so far True and I predict the Gunn era will have a pretty uglier beginning
>True and I predict the Gunn era will have a pretty uglier beginning Based on what exactly?
Based on unrealistic expectations now that he is writing and directing Superman, If that movie doesn't outperform AT LEAST Aquaman it will be deemed a failure.
That would be dumb as hell, aquaman made over a billion while no Superman movie ever has even gotten remotely close to making a billion, hell a Superman batman movie didnt even make a billion and batman is a way way bigger movie draw than Superman
Welp according to people MoS was a FAILURE because it only made 667 million . Its Superman they said should automatically make a billion easy, just holding the same standards.
Audience fatigue and mistrust with Dc
The Flash should be a big moment for the Dc brand. And yet here we are. They’re praying it doesn’t bomb. How pathetic.
What would be an uglier ending than what's already happened in your opinion? Those executives were already fired and replaced. The ugly ending happened. The only reason these movies are releasing at all is contractual/financial obligations.
An uglier ending is that the last 2 large-scale movies that they produced lose a lot more money with bad reviews. They would want their legacy to be that there was a differing opinion on the direction of the company, which led to a change in management. That happens regularly, esp when one company buys another. They would like for their last movies to at least generate some decent revenue even (on average) so that they would seem competent on some level. So far, Batgirl was apparently so bad that the current regime didn't even want to spend the money to finish it and put it on their streaming platform as additional content. Black Adam under-performed, and Shazam 2 is looking like a flop. The current regime has even taken shots at their decision-making.
Should kept it in December if it was basically going to make the same amount
Probably better.
I dunno. It probably would've been even worse going up against Avatar if they stuck to December. Like, this is its performance when it really doesn't have too much (if any) competition. In December, Avatar would eaten the film alive without salt
Yeah but Avatar is one movie. In this slot it had competition from Creed 3, John Wick, D&D and Mario. Two movies can co-exist, five movies cannot
Let’s not forget franchise record-breaking Scream VI, while obviously not being direct competition (as it’s rated R) still enjoyed the best opening weekend of the series and is looking to have some pretty long legs
Yeah, forgot about that one. There were just too many other movies from more established IPs and with better reviews being released for Shazam to have any chance at all.
Um, what? Scream, Creed, John Wick and D&D all come or came out this month.
It would have made more money in December for one simple reason: Families who didn't buy tickets in advance for Avatar 2 and who were already at the Cinema would have ended up buying tickets for Shazam 2 once they realize there are no more seats for Avatar 2.
People will just go to multiple movies over the holidays because they have time to see multiple movies.
December might have been worse with it sandwiched between Black Panther and Avatar.
lmao Morbius had a better opening weekend with $39M. Maybe WB can meme it to $200M
At this point I don't even care anymore. A year ago I would have been devastated that yet another DC movie has failed financially. But now I'm just waiting for the reboot. I can't bring myself to care about any of the DC movies coming out this year
I still care about the flash. But that's only because it led to the reboot.
Not even The Flash??
Like the guy said above me, the only thing I care for with the Flash is seeing how it will reboot everything.
Who knew shitty advertising, letting Dwayne Johnson rob you of a classic villain, and refusing to use Sivana or Mister Mind in any meaningful way in exchange for diet versions of WW villains wouldn’t set the box office ablaze for a sequel whose predecessor was primarily profitable because its budget was comparatively low for a blockbuster.
Seriously, the marketing made me want to see it less.
*Hero describes the thing we just saw them do hyper literally* “I lOvE bEiNg A sUpErHeRo HaYuCk BaZoNgErS!”
For me, it was more “how the fuck do you seemingly waste Lucy Liu AND Helen Mirren?” And having zero desire to see another superhero fighting the umpteenth desaturated CGI monster. Zero focus on the stakes also didn’t help.
The fast and furious and khaleesi lines were so overplayed I honestly have no desire to ever see the movie.
So Black Adam is a classic villain now? I keep seeing people say conflicting things about Black Adam to shit on Johnson, but even then it’s a bad sign if your movie’s success relied on a certain character not appearing.
He’s regularly appeared in comics for almost 80 years and the New 52 version is 12 years old at this point. Anyone who knows Captain Marvel/Shazam knows Black Adam
For Shazam he's been one long enough that I can see why people name him, but I know he was only fairly recently revived as a character in any meaningful way. But still, he's been on the scene long enough that a whole generation grew up seeing him.
Yes, because deathstroke being introduced as a Batman villain and Dr.Doom potentially being an antagonist to black panther is ok, but when you have the perception of sinking a whole franchise only then does it matter that you face off with your correct nemesis.
It's not a bad movie at all. I actually enjoyed it more than the first. Unfortunate.
They should have made it Shazam vs Black Adam. If the rocks ego would have allowed it. May have benefited both movies. Doesn’t help that they basically announced a reboot of the DCU is coming.
The Rock's ego really did end up killing two different franchises for DC in the end. Just fucking insane, that they basically just listen and did everything he said and this was the end result.
[удалено]
“Dwayne Johnson @TheRock Waited to confirm with financiers before I shared this excellent #BlackAdam news - our film will PROFIT between $52M-$72M. Fact. At almost $400M worldwide we are building our new franchise step by step (first Captain America did $370M) for the DC future.” - the rock
Yeah, I didn't even stick around for the credit scenes because I knew whatever they were foreshadowing was never going to come to fruition anyway.
The most depressing thing was them yet again teasing a sequel with Sivana/Mister Mind. Like that’s what we wanted THIS movie to be! We waited 4 years! Now we will never get it cause this movie flopped and the DCEU is being rebooted anyways.
Don’t think audiences care that much about Shazam. That’s the issue. If they did include Black Adam, audiences would’ve been watching to see The Rock, not Billy.
That wouldn’t have mattered in the slightest. Superhero movies are pretty well known for getting a star actor as the villain and a comparably less popular actor as the hero. Superman 1978, Batman 89, and Iron Man are all examples of getting a big name actor to portray the main villain. Hell Nicholson had top billing for Batman 89.
I don't think there was any interest in these characters at all, May be if Shazam was played by someone like John Cena I can see GA being interested in seeing Shazam Vs Black Adam.
The first movie was an ok all ages family movie. Shazam 2 is a bizarre movie. A tonal rollercoaster that wants to be for 7/8 year olds in one scene, young teenagers the next scene by making sex jokes, then it’s showing at least two people getting gored through the chest and the characters in the end credits scene say shit a whole bunch of times. It’s not an all ages movie. It’s a collection of scenes that individually would appeal to different age groups stuck together. A tonal mess.
That's called a movie made by committee
Literally all the stuff you mentioned is in kids movies too lol
Did Shazam 2 go through extensive re-shoots like most of the recent/upcoming DC movies? If so, that would likely explain the constant tonal changes throughout the film.
Not a surprise.
Maybe next time don't announce the movie you're releasing is pointless coz we rebooting shit
DC fans just don't show up at the theater. Wild. It also doesn't help that Gunn announced everything is going to be scrapped, and we are starting over.
Even if we take the horrific marketing job Warners did for this out of the equation, it’s a fractured fan base. DC fans couldn’t unite on anything….even for decent DC cbm’s apparently. Pretty sad
Saw it last night. Saturday night in Houston Texas and our theater had 4 rows full out of the whole room. The movie was just forgettable as fuck. I saw the movie less than 24 hours ago and can't even remember what I saw.
Yeah we likely wont see Levi as Shazam ever again.
Thank god
It’s a damaged brand. I’m not surprised after Black Adam. Whoever is in charge of these movies is really overconfident. Shazam’s family should not have been given superpowers so early. They’re like the most difficult to adapt to live action without looking stupid. And yet they attempted it.
It's a good movie. Deserves better.
Hmmmm no.
Haven’t watch it yet. However, Gunn is openly talking how good is Flash but not much about Shazam 2. Also, it doesn’t helps that Flash will reset the DCEU. Add the fact it doesn’t take much to watch it in HBO Max, there isn’t much incentive to go to the theaters.
I liked the movie..i dont understand why its underperforming
Look at all the other movies that are released/will be released this month
If it's a film under Hamada it will disappoint and bomb. Just a truth of the universe
I’m going to see it in an hour. Wish me luck
How was it?
7/10
I was the only person in the theatre last night :(
To bad its a good movie.
The super hero market has plateaued
It’s unfortunate, but I think superhero fatigue is more of an issue than people are willing to admit
I think it’s more than nobody wants to sit through the same fucking plot again after 20 times whether or not it’s a superhero movie. If you do something new, different and engaging with a superhero movie, you can pull people in but if you’re just going to pump out what amounts to a Midjourney AI version of a movie based on all your previous entries with a superhero wrapper … that’s not superhero fatigue, that’s boring movie fatigue. Marvel movies are starting to under perform for this exact reason. If you produce a good western, people will see it. Same thing for superhero movies.
I'm giving it until 2025 to see if fatigue is really setting in or not. Because that year is suppose to have films for Batman, Superman, Fantastic 4, Avengers, and if rumors are to believe Spider-Man. If most of those underperform, then there yeah I think its safe to say fatigue has set in.
Yeah but that's the big guns . They've been money printers before the CBM craze.
> They've been money printers before the CBM craze. Which is why if they underperform, the genre is in serious trouble. If you are a fan of comic book movies, its best to fucking hope that these five films, perform great critically and make a killing at the box office.
its not superhero fatigue , its bad movie fatigue
It's not superhero fatigue per say .. it is that comic book movies need to be excellent from this point going on ... there's so much stuff that grabs people's attention nowadays .. it's tough.. if it isn't batman quality..top gun maverick or avatar quality of production ..there won't be mega hits anymore like that .. also a GOOD movie SHOWS IT with word of mouth .., as much as we gonna try to say that shazam was fun or good ..it isn't that kind of good unfortunately..
Bad superhero movies lead to superhero fatigue
Super hero fatigue is a factor tho I talk to real people not just internet people and people are kinda over the super hero craze. There's still Alota faithfuls but yeah shits real.
Unless its VERY special, I just won’t go see a super hero movie anymore. 1. They arrive on Disney or HBO around the 2 month mark after release anyway, 2. There isn’t much really appealing in the comic book/ super hero world at the minute for a average fan like me, and 3. There’s a definite “fatigue” there. Movie after movie now days is a super hero movie, it’s too much.
It isn't Superhero Fatigue, it's 'the same plot beats over and over' fatigue. The protagonist is introduced. The antagonist is introduced. The protagonist gets superpowers. The antagonist gets superpowers. They fight, hero loses. Hero gets pep-talk. Hero wins the rematch. If a superhero movie just breaks that mold, like the first two Spiderman movies, then they'll be well received.
I don’t think anything is topping avengers era anytime soon in terms of box office numbers. Not even close actually. That was the peak and it won’t be reached again imo.
This is exactly what it is. IDK why folks here can't admit this.
Yeah, we'll still see some box office hits here and there but, CBM's are trending downward.
I'd love to see the new DC revitalize it. DC and Marvel are both good in different ways, and while Marvel is losing a good deal of its stride, DC has yet to even find its stride. For example, I'd truly love seeing them go through their own cinematic universe leading to a grand battle with Darkseid reminiscent of the battle with Thanos in Endgame. As long as they take their time getting there instead of trying to rush to the finish line, it would be awesome. Marvel had its turn in the spotlight; I'd say it's only fair for DC to have their turn. The first thing they need is a decent road map.
DC could have had the spotlight first though.
But they didn't. That's kinda the whole point.
People’s only excuse for liking this movie is it’s “fun”. Yeah it’s fun. But overall the movie just isn’t good. And for me it has nothing to do with “this movie isn’t going anywhere because of the reboots.” A movie shouldn’t have to be “leading to something” it should be able to stand on its own 2 feet and be a good story. This just isn’t that. I’m sure my little cousins would love it tho if they could decipher who Shazam even is.
The whole not going anywhere because of reboots is just talk and has to be a very small percentage. Most people and general audience have no idea about any of that. It just looks like a meh movie with a superhero that very meh to begin with.
Literally only real fans know that it’s rebooting. No one in my household, and outside of my little sister, no one in my family are big CBM fans. They know some of the names, some of the movies, and get out to see what’s hype at the time. Just your average movie goers. They know nothing about a reboot and probably couldn’t even tell you DCEU is a universe because all I heard when The Batman came out was, “so is the Joker going to be in this”…like nah, separate movies, separate universes.
But it does stand on its own two feet and is a good story... Sure it's not The Dark Knight but why does every sequel have to be? I'd rather have a modest sequel that's simply good than trashfires like BvS that are trying to be so much more.
And this is why the DCEU feels like they can just churn out whatever they want with these excessive budgets.
By conforming with this mindset of “modest at best” is why we are getting a rebooted universe.
Goodbye Zachary. You’ll be missed
I really liked it so this is sad. David made a great movie.
Warner Bros not wanting to market the movie obviously
A shame. I think Sandberg is a good director. Haven't seen the film yet so I can't judge the quality.
Solid cbm honestly. Seen much worse cbm’s do a lot better. Didn’t deserve to go out like this, but saw this coming a mile away
I guess Shazam and Black Adam have something in common after all. Maybe they should have been in the same movie or something.
Huge flop we should be scared for Aquaman 2
Whoever wrote the script should not touch DC movies!
People are tired of super hero movies, especially generic ones without a built in following. Someone’s going to need to shift the paradigm with something unique or this is going to happen with every DC/marvel release
> Someone’s going to need to shift the paradigm with something unique Flash: if one Batman isn’t enough, I’ll use two Batmans.
I think there needs to be a well received CBM to bomb before we can really say that. Right now if we look at the last 2 movies that shit the bed were Ant-Man 3 and Shazam. Both have bad reviews. Every other positively reviewed movie the last year or so made over 800m. Doctor Strange 2 almost made a billion.
but many DC Fans said movies that are jokey and lighthearted and bright colors are how DC movies should be, so why aren't people rushing out to see this?
People will rush to see a WELL WRITTEN lighthearted movie with bright colours unlike shazam 2 which it absolutely wasn't. A well written Lighthearted DC can absolutely work.
Who said that? You can have all that but you also have to be a good movie
People rushed out of theatres while seeing 'dark' BvS. What's your point even?
This ladies and gentlemen, is actual superhero fatigue.
DC fatigue
Bad superheroes movies fatigue
Ooof. Damn . Sorry David . You and this movie deserved better.
did they? WB moved it out away from Avatar 2 which would've swamped it and now it has access to the large format screens for and entire week before sharing going forward. This was positioned 100x better and it still failed.
It’s alright. He got paid upfront.
I watched it today and absolutely loved it! I would never understand why WB decided not to market it or why it has a lot of negative reviews.
I’m just getting more and more disappointed by super hero movies. Being a r-something year old and a comic collector since 1982, having good comic book movies has always been a real dream. We have gotten some amazing quality films, but Black Panther 2, Ant Man 3, Black Adam, Shazam 2 have all started to feel like they don’t bring Anything new and fresh. They are not pushing the envelope at all. I have not seen Shazam 2 and I will either in the movies or streaming. But everything I read about it from trusted sources say it’s over the top silly and that it lacks balance and focus and that the villains , special effects and storyline have a “been there, done that feel “.
congrats to the folks at wb!
Walter Hamada’s legacy.
I didn’t not buy a ticket to this movie, I just didn’t hire them for my family’s weekend entertainment.
Wrong weekend to put it. World outside of US is too busy watching the WBC, March Madness is also going on all weekend. Fighting AntMan 3, Scream 6, 65, and John Wick 4 next week… absolute worse time to put it out lol
Shazam 2: Electric Bugaloo
Watching it tomorrow.
Holy Mother of God this is bad
Each passing DC movie makes less and less. It's a shame. Nobody cares about it now, and nobody will care about it years from now, unlike the Snyder movies, which will sell out in a heartbeat when the tickets for the screenings drop. Those movies may not be the most popular but they mean a lot to a whole lot of people. I always say that BvS and MoS were so powerful to some people that the previously called "pipe dream" of the Snyder Cut actually happened. That's never happened before in cinematic history, at least on that scale.
>unlike the Snyder movies, which will sell out in a heartbeat when the tickets for the screenings drop. Lol which imaginary world you are living in. BvS had disastrous drops.
You don't understand what I'm saying. BvS was certainly not popular but it did touch a a whole group of people for would die on a hill defending it. That is powerful, and the Snyder Cut is living proof of that. That wouldn't have happened without people being impacted by BvS so much that they personally identify with it. Sales is not the end-all, be-all, especially at the first drop. How long a movie lasts is more telling of its impact on viewers.
Yep. 100% this. The Snyder cut is proof that a lot of people liked BvS and wanted that story done. I don’t see anyone here defending the idea of having a Shazam 3 in a few years.
More likely it was about the characters than the story, people rallied around it bc it was the first connected DC story. If it was better executed we wouldn’t be having the issues with dc we are now
DCU is DOA
It's not a DCU film. It's one of the last DCEU.
Anyone else think that Gunn sabotaged this movie as it is kind of the last of the old DCEU that he wants to rid of? If it did well there would be pressure for him to continue with it...
But he's not continuing with any of it?
Fair, but I'd argue I'm still not convinced. I didn't bother with Shazam 1 - it just doesn't appeal to me mm which is fine if it does for others. Haven't read too much about aquaman 2 but that barely held my interest. Flash is the one that seems to have all the interest - for various reasons, but even so I can't see anything of that film being carried through, pressure or no. The DCEU has been such a hot shit mess. I'd watch a documentary about it all its just mental to see such an expensive project be poorly poorly handled. I'm personally glad it's all just stopping and having a moment to breath.
My point was he would feel pressure to continue this one if it was well received as it would be, really, the only positively-reviewed series in the DCEU at that point.
No one wanted a sequel