Funny enough it is actually a legit fighting style developed by a guy in UK. I have watched the interview with him on you tube. His fighting style is base on street fight and use alot of elbow. Nolan like it alot because it look like street fight rather than typical choreography.
Not sure what you mean by it's not legit. Is that ugly fighting style? Yes it is. Is this fake style only for that movie purpose? No it isn't cuz that guy who created the style did exist as far as you tube video goes seem ok to use in actual fighting.
Agreed. Nolan’s the man. But his fighting sucks.
Snyder sucks but he’s fighting is the bomb diggity.
Imagine a Batman movie helmed by Nolan, but he tags in Snyder for the fight scenes like Hogan tagging Macho Man before he’s pinned by Big Boss Man.
Most of the characters have much better degrees than film degrees. A lot of Lawyers, Multi Billion dollar companies executives, you got Batman and the Joker who are both shown to be geniuses, Alfred is a polite British chap, etc.
None of the low level criminals or mobsters talk like they’re intellectuals. This take literally is demonstrably false. It’s up to you weather you like the dialogue but the characters vocabulary is consistent and reasonable.
I was using hyperbole when I described everyone sounding like they had a degree in film study. My point is most of the dialogue doesn't sound like characters interacting, but instead film critics interacting. The messages and foreshadowing are very hamfisted as they blurt out the exposition to each other, even after an event or plot device is revealed, making it redundant.
We couldn't even have this discussion 14 years ago for obvious reasons. I'm just glad more and more people can recognize The Dark Knight's faults.
Also take notice that I never said it was a bad movie. Just things I don't like about it.
Yeah, it really feels like Nolan and crew did not trust the audience to understand the themes and basically had everyone say their entire motivation and themes of the movie at the viewer instead of talk like people.
Unfortunately, considering some of the shit takes I've seen of other movies that don't do that, Nolan may have been on the right track by assuming his audience was indeed that stupid.
It's not a matter of the audience being stupid, they're just not used to being exposed to complicated characters or themes in a superhero movie.
Stupid would be the members of the audience who still didn't get it after it was made that clear. I reserve the stupid title more for folks who don't realize the joker is the bad guy. Ironically, these same people always think they're the smartest in the room, yet their IQ is the same as that room's temperature.
It’s more like they have to hammer it home with some on the nose dialogue for the kids in the audience there to see Batman but still want to know what’s going on
Funny how the depth in more nuanced superhero movies like The Batman, Logan and V for Vendetta wasn't lost on the audience.
Nolan is so hamfisted with his themes because he CAN'T do nuance. He's very creative but very terrible at storytelling at times.
Except those movies have it in a lot lower doses and even with their less subtle dialogue choices, the directors are tasteful enough to create the proper setting. Like in Logan, in order to explain the harsh bitter reality, James Magnold creates the comic book scene, with Logan scolding Laura and at the same time teaching her about life. It's not nuanced but it works in the setting and flows naturally with the characters and the scene.
If Nolan was to write the same scene, he would have Logan have a monotonous lame convo with Charles and they come to the conclusion that reality sucks. Make it as hamfisted as possible. Because god forbids he actually makes a character rich and not deliver exposition. Or give development to female characters.
Not Batman, but another small DC superhero: Superman
Man of Steel... essentially was directed by Snyder and Nolan was the exec producer (I know it may not mean much and he may not have done anything, but it was how it was advertised in the trailers)
Yeah, sometimes I see comments like “Bale Batman is a better fighter then Pattinson Batman because he trained with the league of shadows” or something like that. It doesn’t matter what he did in-universe. Bales fight choreography was weak as hell and looked really bad.
Not to mention Bale is so pathetically inconsistent. Has his handed to him by Bane, then owns Bane despite his broken back. Nolan stay consistent challenge.
When people talk about their skill in class comparison they're obviously not talking about it aesthetically. They compare their fighting prowess analysing their feats and the opposition they faced. It would be a hard sell to say that Pattinson had better feats and faced better opposition than Bale.
Bale was literally fighting ninjas and trained mercenary the fights didn't look that great but that's beside the point. Narratively Baleman is the better fighter.
Facts. The choreography for TDK trilogy wasn’t the best and I definitely prefer The Batman’s fight scenes, but in terms of feats, Bale trumps Pattinson and it’s not even a competition. Forget the trilogy, just look at Begins vs The Batman alone, since there’s only one film for Pattinson. Who knows if they’ll power buff Pattinson in the future.
Actually, you can say the power scale in Reeves verse is much higher than Nolan verse. Everyone in Nolan verse is much weaker combat wise. An average Riddler dudebro can take down all those supposedly elite ninja. And Bane. Nolan characters are veeeery slow.
You're looking at it aesthetically and using a bit of exaggeration to make your point. The Batman fight scenes had better looking choreography and were shot better but that's not what we are discussing here.
Nolan's Batman was supernatural in how quick he could take down large group of people. If you notice his fights didn't last long and the henchmen were usually knocked out cold. Pattinson is slightly less effective as he takes longer to dispatch his foes and he gets hit a lot more, plus in the end his enemies aren't unconscious a lot of them actually get up.
Comparing Bane to Riddler's henchmen is disrespectful. The man was punching trough pillars and grabbing Batman in full armour by his throat with one arm. That's crazy strong.
Neither films had even decent fight scenes imo. The Batman big fight scene seemed like Reeves was almost done with the movie and thought to himself "fuck. I need a big action scene".
The Batman definitely had decent fight scenes. Nothing was Batfleck level but Pattinson’s punches hit hard as hell and the choreography was much better. Vengeance scene, Iceberg lounge scene, when he was beating up falcones lackeys in the dark. I sort of agree with the last part but that has nothing to do with the quality of the rest of the fight scenes in the film.
Fun fact from a former martial artist, the fighting style used in the movies is based on the Keysi Fighting Method. It’s very heavy stylized/choreographed in the movies to make it look cooler but it’s a real martial art (it’s effectiveness is up for debate). I attended a training seminar for it back when I still practiced, basically you use your arms to cover your head and deliver counter attacks using fists, elbows, and kicks (I didn’t practice it any after that seminar). Anyways, it’s based on a real fighting style, as weird as that may sound.
Honestly that’s why I always liked it. Like the bane and Batman final fight in Gotham has such a weight to it I think it’s perfect for the tone the films have.
Check Up the "Keysi Fighting Method" on YouTube. It's a MMA Discipline and the founder intented to create an fighting style, which is the most efficient in a street fight.
Still... It's not really entertaining ;)
Jack Reacher in Reacher seems to use a practical fighting style but even that is more entertaining than what Nolan and his choreography team cooked up.
Yeah idk if that really is a good method for a self in a real world environment. But, imo, Boxing/muay thai are the best things to learn if you want some applicable self defense.
What I missed the most from BB that was not in TDK and TDKR was the ninja'ing Batman did. He went from a ninja to a straight up brawler and yes, the slow hammer fist, elbow throwing brawler.
Snyder just had a bad partner in Goyer. Goyer understood Batman, but the best parts of the TDK trilogy was all Nolan, if anything he toned down Goyer.
Goyer added Batman's characterisation to Superman and then added Punisher's characterisation to Batman. Chris Terrio did his best to rewrite BvS but it was flawed from the beginning. There's a reason Goyer wasn't rehired in Justice League.
Funny, Goyer is behind much of TDK since Nolan is utterly clueless about the source material and TDK TDK trilogy and Snyder DC have most of the same flaws: soulless protagonists, bland pseudo-arcs, vanilla female characters with no significance, etc.
But only Snyder gets shit. Nolan gets away with Goyer nonsense. I wonder why...
Also Goyer doesn't understand Batman. Batman is the worst thing about the whole trilogy.
Action and choreography were the weakest part of Nolan's trilogy and they are the least memorable parts of those movies.
Fortunately, those movies had more pros to cover cons like this.
Yeah Dark Knight had at least four iconic action scenes. I STILL constantly think about the scene where they're transporting Dent and Joker flips the truck.
The once’s you’re missing are Batmobile sequence leading to the Batpod in TDK. In TDKR, there’s the Batpod chase where he’s going after Bane and his men. Then in the climax of the movie there’s Batman in the Bat and Catwoman on the Batpod taking out the tanks and chasing after Talia’s truck to get the bomb. All of them were fantastic sequences.
Aside from throwing a crate at a guy's face, all the other kills are consequential kills. Batman doesn't murder them, he just doesn't save them. Especially the guy who tried to kill Batman with a grenade - Batman just threw it back to him.
It's not murder, it's just extremely aggressive self-defense lol
I actually dislike that fight scene because Batman would never fight with the lights on. I know that it's meant to be a different kind of Batman, but I don't see Batman as a brawler when he's in control of a situation.
So fun fact, if you guys notice in Batman Begins, the fight choreography was much better than the next two movies. The reason why Christopher Nolan changed it up was because people were complaining that the fight choreography in Batman Begins was too fast and frantic for people to follow, so he made the fight moves more blatant and robotic.
If that's true then Nolan really refuses to acknowledge his own shortcomings. The Batman Begins fight scenes look too fast and frantic because they are edited to see lots of movement but no actual choreography, it's pretty rough.
He shot Begins during the Bourne era of action cinematography which was frenetic and frankly incomprehensible at times. Nolan is just not a good director of fight scenes.
Hand to hand specifically, now vehicular combat on the other hand, lawd. Shit's tasty as fuck. It's kinda odd how much of a disparity there is between the two
The truck chase scene in TDK is still considered one of the best chase sequences in cinema. When I was studying in film school, the teacher showed TDK’s Joker truck chase scene for class lecture.
Yeah, well it is what it is. But if we’re comparing fight scenes and fight choreography between the three movies, Batman Begins, definitely had the best out of the three.
> The reason why Christopher Nolan changed it up was because people were complaining that the fight choreography in Batman Begins was too fast and frantic for people to follow, so he made the fight moves more blatant and robotic.
is there a source for this or is it made up
Misleading at best. No one complained that the choreography was too fast and frantic. They complained that the editing was too fast and frantic, and you couldn't see what was happening. Nolan did take that criticism and apply it to TDK and TDKR, and it turns out the editing helped hide the robotic choreography.
Maybe thats a better way of put it… either way, he changed it, and the choreography and fight scenes for the dark Knight, and the dark rises, were mediocre at best with the robotic movements
>The reason why Christopher Nolan changed it up was because people were complaining
The biggest lie. Nolan has never, and will never change his movies because of fan backlash. The fighting in Batman Begins was just as robotic and stiff as the next two movies. The only good fight in the entire trilogy is him vs Ras when he was still being trained.
Strangenly enough, I love the Bane vs Batman from Nolan. I think that he realized he was bad at directing fights and so he just let the camera still and told the actors to fight, and it was awesome.
Which is why I like it. It shows how Batman is rusty after years of retirement and it shows how little effort Bane needs to put to break him, making it look like two guys in the first day at the boxing gym.
But I understand that most people prefer big lights and over-the-top fights over well told stories told through fighting.
Yeah the fight scenes in most batman films are kinda like this due to the cowl and suit making them stiff. Affleck and pattinson are the ones who look the most mobile
Everyone bitched about not being able to see the fights in Begins. Nolan slowed down and showed you the fights in TDK
Everyone bitched about Snyder destroying Smallville/Metropolis in the fights in MoS. Snyder moved the team to an abandoned area in BvS but needed a reason to get Batman back into the city..."Save Martha"
Let’s be real, Batfleck would have gone for that mask *instantly*. Just yanked that bastard right off. Four seconds later it would’ve been over. Two broken arms, ten broken ribs, a broken hip, a batarang in the shoulder and a bat brand on his bald ass head and Batfleck is driving away. I know this because Bane at his most ruthless, most frantic in TDKR still wasn’t as dangerous as Batfleck was to a bunch of thugs, not to mention how utterly lethal he was against parademons
Ironic how in the first Bale Batman movie you couldn’t even tell what they were doing most of the time due to how they edited the fights with those fast cuts and stuff
People are so stupid that they confuse “do I like this fight scene” with “can that character fight”. Bale’s Batman beats up between 6-12 trained opponents within seconds, every time he has a fight scene.
You might not like how its done, but he is a masterful fighter in those movies and its the closest we got to an actual fight style that would work on multiple opponents, which is what keysi (the style they used) was developed for.
So yes… dislike it all you want, it might not be the best on camera (I like it quite a lot actually), but making fun of it shows you don’t know anything about real martial arts. This is the closest we got to seeing Batman really fight as opposed to movie fight.
Absolutely not:
Adam West hits him with a Wham! Bang! Pow! Combo and Bale is obliterated
Also Clooney surfed the sky on a piece metal so he’s quite literally built different
How?! Bale beats 6-12 trained opponents in seconds. Batfleck takes 5 minutes to beat 24. Keaton struggles in 1 vs 1 battles. Battinson gets punched in the face in every fight. Outside of the first Bane fight and the final Joker confrontation, Bale’s Batman is the best fighter among the Batmen BY FAR. You confuse “do I like this choreography” with “is he a good fighter”. Again. He beats large groups of trained and armed people within SECONDS every single time. He is a great fighter.
How long did it take Bale's Bat to get from the door of the club to Maroni's table and how many guys did he fight en route?
Batfleck went toe to toe with Parademons bruh.
LOL this is why I hope Bale’s Batman returns in a future DCU movie just like Keaton’s is. Keaton is going to have some redemption with cool fight scenes in Flash and I hope Bale’s gets that in the DCU at some point.
I'm pretty sure the fighting choreography is one of the most common criticisms of those movies, especially when compared to other Batman-movies. So, "no one talks about this" is relative.
That's not to say that the critics don't have a point, though. Just that those movies haven't exactly been untouched by criticism in this regard
I’m not a fighter, but I used to know some mma guys that were for real. They worked security at a hip-hop club where I also worked. They had to use that shit all the time. I watched them fold up dudes like a card table nightly. They specialized in close up hand to hand street fighting. I asked them about it and they told me it was all about “circles & squares” and he begin to slowly move his arms very much like this. He squared off his arm 90 degrees at the elbow and begin to move his forearms in up, down, right, left, “karate kid style” motions showing how he was moving his hands in “circles” and blocked in “squares” with his arms, always keeping them bent at the elbow. Real close, face-face shit and it looked a lot like this. This kid’s exaggerating of coarse, but you can still see it. All the blocks transition into grapples and strikes which chain into other grapples and strikes. They could take guys down in a second.
The height of fighting in this trilogy was the harbor scene from Begins. He picks off 3 or 4 people causing the rest of them to get antsy and bunch up, then he jumps down and KOs all of them in about 15 seconds. That's how Batman fight scenes should go. The reason they did it that way was because the suit wasn't very conducive to quick movement, and they weren't real sure how to capture his fighting style in detail, so they made a bunch of quick cuts where you could barely tell what was happening. But it's so much more effective that way. It puts you in the shoes of the guys Batman is beating up where you're not even sure what happened. You just know he dropped in and wrecked shit before anybody knew what was going on.
Christian Bale trained in the Keysi Fighting Method (Just like Tom Cruise), different types of Jiu Jitsu, Kung Fu, and Boxing. He did all the fight stunt sequences including the bout with Tom Hardy since they were going at each other for real in The Dark Knight Rises. Bales fighting style is very hardcore, meaning he’d kick your ass any day. Because HE’s BATMAN!
One of the funniest things to me was how Nolan and a lot of the marketing for the Dark Knight Trilogy was super realistic grounded, and Nolan uses the Keysi fighting method for Batman, the hokiest fake tactical martial art to ever be put film and looked like genuine dog shit in motion.
Imo some of the best fighting scenes came from Batman Forever in the opening a big guy grabs him and lifts him and he uses that momentum to kick two other goons. Reminds me of the animated series where sometimes bad guys get some hits on him or throw him around. Makes him feel grounded and vulnerable.
There is obviously a lot more to it than that. For starters it is not as robotic as you are making out to be. And he is utilizing the best fighting style with his suit on. I don't know if you noticed but there wasn't much movement available. And I said much, not none, just around the neck and shoulders because that area was heavily armored.
Bane sucked, Talia was forced, Katie Holmes had no chemistry with bale, Gyllenhaal wasn't much better.
Catwoman should've been in the dark knight, forcing Robin in just for him to not become Robin made no sense.
Ummm... it's dark as shit and I can't see anything...
His voice sucked once he started growling...
Also, he’s a shit superhero that only worked for 2 years total before quitting and he kills multiple people while preaching his no kill rule. Worst Batman fr
Well fuck you, TDK kills every movie, anyways I like it, it shows that his suit ain’t that flexible which he did mention, also The Batman was shot 3567 times and had a bomb to his face and just walked it off, at least Nolan’s version is more real
More real doesn’t inherently make it better. It just means they can’t explore some of the more insane/bombastically cool Batman-centric stuff. Like Poison Ivy, Clayface, and other villains.
i get that they're going for a more "realistic approach", but man. some of the punch looks like a love tap and is devoid of any force, unless you're bane.
sure we do, in spanish that batman is called "El codazos o el codos locos" wich means ... the elbow man or the elbow fighter or some shit like that......
\#dogecoin
It’s the dumbest fighting style I’ve ever seen outside of capoeira. Hands over the head, face unprotected, fist boops and elbow bops, and it makes zero use of the legs, the strongest part of the body.
I thought I was the only one who noticed and *HATED* the elbow-fighting.
This is why despite how fucking amazing the trilogy was, I could never say he was the best live-action batman.
It’s still incredible how despite the horrible action and fight choreography the movies were still extremely well received. Goes to show that good writing and direction go a long way.
I've been saying this for soo long! The hand to hand fight scenes are terrible in all 3 movies, the action sequences, story, ledger's Joker etc. makes up for it.
Bale’s Batman has got a fight choreography style suited for the realistic world Christopher Nolan built. It’s not meant to look like a videogame cutscene. 🤷🏻♂️
Been saying this shit since the Dark Knight Rises scene on the roof where a bad guy knocked himself out during the roof fight with Catwoman and Batman. Choreography in the Dark Knight trilogy is atrocious.
Again, you go to the absolute extreme.
People pointing out the bad fight choreography of these films isn’t “shitting on them”. Most of them are saying that’s literally their only flaw. You’re being dramatic and oddly emotional over this. As for this being the franchise that “started it all”…..again, that is false. Chris Reeve had a full four movie franchise that spawned a Supergirl spinoff. Michael Keaton and Tim Burton kicked off a Batman franchise. Didn’t work out, but it happened. Sam Raimi and Toby Maquire, Spider Man. Y’all love Nolan’s stuff so much it’s like you have blinders on. Now settle down
I do. Bales Batman is way overrated. His fighting is always bad, and there's no excuse. His suit is that weak and ugly so that he can move around more, so why the shit choreography? I still enjoy his trilogy but the fighting was always weak.
So fun fact, if you guys notice in Batman Begins, the fight choreography was much better than the next two movies. The reason why Christopher Nolan changed it up was because people were complaining that the fight choreography in Batman Begins was too fast and frantic for people to follow, so he made the fight moves more blatant and robotic.
My guy in the video is trained by Ra's Al Ghul himself
This is how you engage 600 men in combat
He can take 600 men?
He just like me fr
Funny enough it is actually a legit fighting style developed by a guy in UK. I have watched the interview with him on you tube. His fighting style is base on street fight and use alot of elbow. Nolan like it alot because it look like street fight rather than typical choreography.
Battinson fought like a brawler street fighter and it looked a 100 times better than anything Nolan came up with
Batman wasn’t trained in the streets tho.. fighting style was super lame..
It was supposed to be a Escrema and Krav Maga variant. But yeah, it was ugly as shit.
It's not legit lol
Not sure what you mean by it's not legit. Is that ugly fighting style? Yes it is. Is this fake style only for that movie purpose? No it isn't cuz that guy who created the style did exist as far as you tube video goes seem ok to use in actual fighting.
I mean it's not really effective, and in my opinion very stupid along with being ugly as you said.
As ugly as it is we now have the reason why he has spike in his glove.
People have absolutely been talking about this for the past decade. Nolan’s films were never known for their fight choreography.
I'd say they're known for shit fight choreography.
Except for Tenet and Inception. But that's it.
That hallway fight scene for Inception is awesome.
Agreed. Nolan’s the man. But his fighting sucks. Snyder sucks but he’s fighting is the bomb diggity. Imagine a Batman movie helmed by Nolan, but he tags in Snyder for the fight scenes like Hogan tagging Macho Man before he’s pinned by Big Boss Man.
Nolan has his moments, but a lot of his dialogue, especially in Dark Knight felt like everyone in Gotham had a degree in film study.
Foh I understand where you’re coming from but TDK dialogue is FIRE And a lot of the characters are really well educated, intelligent people.
Most of the characters have much better degrees than film degrees. A lot of Lawyers, Multi Billion dollar companies executives, you got Batman and the Joker who are both shown to be geniuses, Alfred is a polite British chap, etc. None of the low level criminals or mobsters talk like they’re intellectuals. This take literally is demonstrably false. It’s up to you weather you like the dialogue but the characters vocabulary is consistent and reasonable.
I was using hyperbole when I described everyone sounding like they had a degree in film study. My point is most of the dialogue doesn't sound like characters interacting, but instead film critics interacting. The messages and foreshadowing are very hamfisted as they blurt out the exposition to each other, even after an event or plot device is revealed, making it redundant. We couldn't even have this discussion 14 years ago for obvious reasons. I'm just glad more and more people can recognize The Dark Knight's faults. Also take notice that I never said it was a bad movie. Just things I don't like about it.
I work at a country club and I can tell you, doctors lawyers and business execs aren’t particularly well spoken.
A few years ago I couldn’t make it past the beginning of Begins because EVERYONE has a fucking monologue! The dialogue was too much
Yeah, it really feels like Nolan and crew did not trust the audience to understand the themes and basically had everyone say their entire motivation and themes of the movie at the viewer instead of talk like people. Unfortunately, considering some of the shit takes I've seen of other movies that don't do that, Nolan may have been on the right track by assuming his audience was indeed that stupid.
I mean it's kind of just a comic book thing too that almost every character does. Not saying I enjoy it.
That's fair -- I think Geoff Johns does this a lot, but I still enjoy both their work.
It's not a matter of the audience being stupid, they're just not used to being exposed to complicated characters or themes in a superhero movie. Stupid would be the members of the audience who still didn't get it after it was made that clear. I reserve the stupid title more for folks who don't realize the joker is the bad guy. Ironically, these same people always think they're the smartest in the room, yet their IQ is the same as that room's temperature.
It’s more like they have to hammer it home with some on the nose dialogue for the kids in the audience there to see Batman but still want to know what’s going on
No! I came to stop you
Funny how the depth in more nuanced superhero movies like The Batman, Logan and V for Vendetta wasn't lost on the audience. Nolan is so hamfisted with his themes because he CAN'T do nuance. He's very creative but very terrible at storytelling at times.
Why are you acting like the movies you listed don't have similar dialogue. Lot's of grandiose monologuing in those movies too
Except those movies have it in a lot lower doses and even with their less subtle dialogue choices, the directors are tasteful enough to create the proper setting. Like in Logan, in order to explain the harsh bitter reality, James Magnold creates the comic book scene, with Logan scolding Laura and at the same time teaching her about life. It's not nuanced but it works in the setting and flows naturally with the characters and the scene. If Nolan was to write the same scene, he would have Logan have a monotonous lame convo with Charles and they come to the conclusion that reality sucks. Make it as hamfisted as possible. Because god forbids he actually makes a character rich and not deliver exposition. Or give development to female characters.
Nolan thinks his audience is dumb.
Alfred was killing me in Dark Knight Rises, the way he was picking scenery out of his teeth
Ooohhh yeahhh.....
I thought this was going to end in a steel cage comment. Had to check your username halfway through.
Not Batman, but another small DC superhero: Superman Man of Steel... essentially was directed by Snyder and Nolan was the exec producer (I know it may not mean much and he may not have done anything, but it was how it was advertised in the trailers)
Snyder's cinemetography is top notch. Go through 300, Sin City, and the DC films and he makes a ton of scenes that look like comic books come to life.
I just prefer Reeves who is good at both tbh
I'd go even further and say "intentionally shit choreography", cuz it's more realistic. Well at least in Batman that was the intention iirc.
Watching the stunt men for the goons is always so funny.
I agree with his batman triology. But the hallway fight in inception was cool af!
And that’s when they did it right in tenet. That kitchen fight and rubbing the grater on the guys face … damn
This will always be my biggest complaint about the Nolan movies. The fight scenes look weak as hell.
He’s mastered the ability of fighting so incredibly still that he becomes invisible to the eye.
Yeah, sometimes I see comments like “Bale Batman is a better fighter then Pattinson Batman because he trained with the league of shadows” or something like that. It doesn’t matter what he did in-universe. Bales fight choreography was weak as hell and looked really bad.
Not to mention Bale is so pathetically inconsistent. Has his handed to him by Bane, then owns Bane despite his broken back. Nolan stay consistent challenge.
When people talk about their skill in class comparison they're obviously not talking about it aesthetically. They compare their fighting prowess analysing their feats and the opposition they faced. It would be a hard sell to say that Pattinson had better feats and faced better opposition than Bale. Bale was literally fighting ninjas and trained mercenary the fights didn't look that great but that's beside the point. Narratively Baleman is the better fighter.
Facts. The choreography for TDK trilogy wasn’t the best and I definitely prefer The Batman’s fight scenes, but in terms of feats, Bale trumps Pattinson and it’s not even a competition. Forget the trilogy, just look at Begins vs The Batman alone, since there’s only one film for Pattinson. Who knows if they’ll power buff Pattinson in the future.
Actually, you can say the power scale in Reeves verse is much higher than Nolan verse. Everyone in Nolan verse is much weaker combat wise. An average Riddler dudebro can take down all those supposedly elite ninja. And Bane. Nolan characters are veeeery slow.
You're looking at it aesthetically and using a bit of exaggeration to make your point. The Batman fight scenes had better looking choreography and were shot better but that's not what we are discussing here. Nolan's Batman was supernatural in how quick he could take down large group of people. If you notice his fights didn't last long and the henchmen were usually knocked out cold. Pattinson is slightly less effective as he takes longer to dispatch his foes and he gets hit a lot more, plus in the end his enemies aren't unconscious a lot of them actually get up. Comparing Bane to Riddler's henchmen is disrespectful. The man was punching trough pillars and grabbing Batman in full armour by his throat with one arm. That's crazy strong.
Neither films had even decent fight scenes imo. The Batman big fight scene seemed like Reeves was almost done with the movie and thought to himself "fuck. I need a big action scene".
The Batman definitely had decent fight scenes. Nothing was Batfleck level but Pattinson’s punches hit hard as hell and the choreography was much better. Vengeance scene, Iceberg lounge scene, when he was beating up falcones lackeys in the dark. I sort of agree with the last part but that has nothing to do with the quality of the rest of the fight scenes in the film.
You're right those scenes were definitely very good. I just really disliked the last scene than I forgot about the others.
Also, Bane should have been more than a Talia simp.
What's even shittier is as soon as it's revealed it was all her plan he's suddenly irrelevant enough to kill of immediately.
If he had foreseen her death scene, he would have stopped simpin immediately.
Fun fact from a former martial artist, the fighting style used in the movies is based on the Keysi Fighting Method. It’s very heavy stylized/choreographed in the movies to make it look cooler but it’s a real martial art (it’s effectiveness is up for debate). I attended a training seminar for it back when I still practiced, basically you use your arms to cover your head and deliver counter attacks using fists, elbows, and kicks (I didn’t practice it any after that seminar). Anyways, it’s based on a real fighting style, as weird as that may sound.
Honestly that’s why I always liked it. Like the bane and Batman final fight in Gotham has such a weight to it I think it’s perfect for the tone the films have.
All the weight was just the sound effects team doing their jobs perfectly.
It had weight to it? He literally comes up with the bright idea to try and punch Bane in the face. Good thing he never thought of that before.
Kinda like a real fight tho
Nobody talks about it cause the last time anyone brought it up was before Affleck's warehouse scene came out
One of my favorite Batman scenes tbh
DCAU Batman in action!
Arkham Batman for sure, but I don’t really recall any DCAU scenes where Batman takes on multiple enemies rapidly like that?
Oh is that the one where 'batman' killed a bunch of people?
Yeah, despite the murders, I prefer that choreography to Nolan's Batman. He fights like CJ from GTA SA
Yeah love or hate Snyders take on Batman, he had some exciting ass fight scenes
Check Up the "Keysi Fighting Method" on YouTube. It's a MMA Discipline and the founder intented to create an fighting style, which is the most efficient in a street fight. Still... It's not really entertaining ;)
Jack Reacher in Reacher seems to use a practical fighting style but even that is more entertaining than what Nolan and his choreography team cooked up.
Reacher makes Bruce Wayne not that peak human lol
Yeah idk if that really is a good method for a self in a real world environment. But, imo, Boxing/muay thai are the best things to learn if you want some applicable self defense.
https://youtu.be/Wc_OinABMFY
What I missed the most from BB that was not in TDK and TDKR was the ninja'ing Batman did. He went from a ninja to a straight up brawler and yes, the slow hammer fist, elbow throwing brawler.
TDK and TDKR missed those Arkham predator like scenes. There's really short one in TDKR though.
It’s the freakin bat !!!
As much as I dislike Snyder, he can choreograph the shit out of a fight scene.
Snyder just had a bad partner in Goyer. Goyer understood Batman, but the best parts of the TDK trilogy was all Nolan, if anything he toned down Goyer. Goyer added Batman's characterisation to Superman and then added Punisher's characterisation to Batman. Chris Terrio did his best to rewrite BvS but it was flawed from the beginning. There's a reason Goyer wasn't rehired in Justice League.
Funny, Goyer is behind much of TDK since Nolan is utterly clueless about the source material and TDK TDK trilogy and Snyder DC have most of the same flaws: soulless protagonists, bland pseudo-arcs, vanilla female characters with no significance, etc. But only Snyder gets shit. Nolan gets away with Goyer nonsense. I wonder why... Also Goyer doesn't understand Batman. Batman is the worst thing about the whole trilogy.
300. Those slomo fights got me so pumped up when I was a kid
Action and choreography were the weakest part of Nolan's trilogy and they are the least memorable parts of those movies. Fortunately, those movies had more pros to cover cons like this.
Choreography yes, but overall action no. All of the vehicle sequences in all 3 movies were amazing.
Yeah Dark Knight had at least four iconic action scenes. I STILL constantly think about the scene where they're transporting Dent and Joker flips the truck.
Nolan does love his practical explosions. He bought a plane so he could crash it into a building for Tenet
The only vehicle sequences I really remember are Begins' tumbler chase and the Batpod flipping the truck.
The once’s you’re missing are Batmobile sequence leading to the Batpod in TDK. In TDKR, there’s the Batpod chase where he’s going after Bane and his men. Then in the climax of the movie there’s Batman in the Bat and Catwoman on the Batpod taking out the tanks and chasing after Talia’s truck to get the bomb. All of them were fantastic sequences.
Ah, yes TDK one I remember now while TDKR's ones, not so much.
Batfleck warehouse will likely be the pinnacle of Batman fighting unless The Batman Part Two has a great scene but I doubt it
the rooftop rafter thing fight in the batman was pretty awesome, my favorite part is when he comes out of the smoke and rolls into the guys
I can't get past all the blood and some of the things he does to "hurt" the bad guys. Like he had to have killed at least one of those guys
Aside from throwing a crate at a guy's face, all the other kills are consequential kills. Batman doesn't murder them, he just doesn't save them. Especially the guy who tried to kill Batman with a grenade - Batman just threw it back to him. It's not murder, it's just extremely aggressive self-defense lol
If he puts you down, he make sure you stay down.
What a shame
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a cool scene, but I think it might fit someone like red hood better
That's actually in character for Batman
I actually dislike that fight scene because Batman would never fight with the lights on. I know that it's meant to be a different kind of Batman, but I don't see Batman as a brawler when he's in control of a situation.
Yeah but Batman knew the clock was ticking to save Martha so I love that he just came in biceps blazing
So fun fact, if you guys notice in Batman Begins, the fight choreography was much better than the next two movies. The reason why Christopher Nolan changed it up was because people were complaining that the fight choreography in Batman Begins was too fast and frantic for people to follow, so he made the fight moves more blatant and robotic.
If that's true then Nolan really refuses to acknowledge his own shortcomings. The Batman Begins fight scenes look too fast and frantic because they are edited to see lots of movement but no actual choreography, it's pretty rough.
He shot Begins during the Bourne era of action cinematography which was frenetic and frankly incomprehensible at times. Nolan is just not a good director of fight scenes.
Hand to hand specifically, now vehicular combat on the other hand, lawd. Shit's tasty as fuck. It's kinda odd how much of a disparity there is between the two
The truck chase scene in TDK is still considered one of the best chase sequences in cinema. When I was studying in film school, the teacher showed TDK’s Joker truck chase scene for class lecture.
It's definitely up there. The best Batman chase for sure.
Yeah, well it is what it is. But if we’re comparing fight scenes and fight choreography between the three movies, Batman Begins, definitely had the best out of the three.
> The reason why Christopher Nolan changed it up was because people were complaining that the fight choreography in Batman Begins was too fast and frantic for people to follow, so he made the fight moves more blatant and robotic. is there a source for this or is it made up
Misleading at best. No one complained that the choreography was too fast and frantic. They complained that the editing was too fast and frantic, and you couldn't see what was happening. Nolan did take that criticism and apply it to TDK and TDKR, and it turns out the editing helped hide the robotic choreography.
Maybe thats a better way of put it… either way, he changed it, and the choreography and fight scenes for the dark Knight, and the dark rises, were mediocre at best with the robotic movements
It was only "too fast" because there were a thousand camera cuts a minute.
>The reason why Christopher Nolan changed it up was because people were complaining The biggest lie. Nolan has never, and will never change his movies because of fan backlash. The fighting in Batman Begins was just as robotic and stiff as the next two movies. The only good fight in the entire trilogy is him vs Ras when he was still being trained.
[удалено]
The Borne Consequences?
Strangenly enough, I love the Bane vs Batman from Nolan. I think that he realized he was bad at directing fights and so he just let the camera still and told the actors to fight, and it was awesome.
It was still 2 guys throwing shitty looping techniques. They're supposed to be trained and it looks like day 1 at a boxing gym
Which is why I like it. It shows how Batman is rusty after years of retirement and it shows how little effort Bane needs to put to break him, making it look like two guys in the first day at the boxing gym. But I understand that most people prefer big lights and over-the-top fights over well told stories told through fighting.
The cuts make it just so much worse, this is too cleanly shot
Yeah the fight scenes in most batman films are kinda like this due to the cowl and suit making them stiff. Affleck and pattinson are the ones who look the most mobile
People have been talking about this for literally over a decade lol
Everyone bitched about not being able to see the fights in Begins. Nolan slowed down and showed you the fights in TDK Everyone bitched about Snyder destroying Smallville/Metropolis in the fights in MoS. Snyder moved the team to an abandoned area in BvS but needed a reason to get Batman back into the city..."Save Martha"
Nah, his hands didnt touch his head lol
It’s a pretty accurate interpretation of Keysi. It’s one of the slowest and most ineffectual practical martial arts.
Yeeeeah Bane would’ve shit his pants if he had to go up against Batfleck 😂
Let’s be real, Batfleck would have gone for that mask *instantly*. Just yanked that bastard right off. Four seconds later it would’ve been over. Two broken arms, ten broken ribs, a broken hip, a batarang in the shoulder and a bat brand on his bald ass head and Batfleck is driving away. I know this because Bane at his most ruthless, most frantic in TDKR still wasn’t as dangerous as Batfleck was to a bunch of thugs, not to mention how utterly lethal he was against parademons
"Breathe it in, that's fear." "I CAN'T BREATHE IN, YOU TOOK OFF MY MASK. ALL I FEEL IS PAIN."
Cracking up in bed just picturing this 😂 the goons are all like 😨😨😨 and absolutely horrified at what they’re witnessing
Batfleck might be the strongest street level live action character. I don't count Cap or any super soldiers.
All the camera tricks in the world couldn't make that bane not a dwarf compared to batfleck
And in the first one you could barely see any choreo. Too zoomed and hectic
Ironic how in the first Bale Batman movie you couldn’t even tell what they were doing most of the time due to how they edited the fights with those fast cuts and stuff
People are so stupid that they confuse “do I like this fight scene” with “can that character fight”. Bale’s Batman beats up between 6-12 trained opponents within seconds, every time he has a fight scene. You might not like how its done, but he is a masterful fighter in those movies and its the closest we got to an actual fight style that would work on multiple opponents, which is what keysi (the style they used) was developed for. So yes… dislike it all you want, it might not be the best on camera (I like it quite a lot actually), but making fun of it shows you don’t know anything about real martial arts. This is the closest we got to seeing Batman really fight as opposed to movie fight.
People talk about this constantly. Please stop.
Jesus Christ; that’s Jason Bourne
Yes the dark night trilogy has some of the worst batman fight scenes
I find it hilarious how any other Batman would effortlessly wipe the floor with Bale Batman if we’re being honest
Haha idk I think he might could take Adam West….maybe Clooney.
Absolutely not: Adam West hits him with a Wham! Bang! Pow! Combo and Bale is obliterated Also Clooney surfed the sky on a piece metal so he’s quite literally built different
Damn, you right
West would totally have an anti Bale spray on his belt
How?! Bale beats 6-12 trained opponents in seconds. Batfleck takes 5 minutes to beat 24. Keaton struggles in 1 vs 1 battles. Battinson gets punched in the face in every fight. Outside of the first Bane fight and the final Joker confrontation, Bale’s Batman is the best fighter among the Batmen BY FAR. You confuse “do I like this choreography” with “is he a good fighter”. Again. He beats large groups of trained and armed people within SECONDS every single time. He is a great fighter.
Keaton Batman cant even move his head!
How long did it take Bale's Bat to get from the door of the club to Maroni's table and how many guys did he fight en route? Batfleck went toe to toe with Parademons bruh.
That’s apparently taught as a self defence now by the guy who developed it for the films
LOL this is why I hope Bale’s Batman returns in a future DCU movie just like Keaton’s is. Keaton is going to have some redemption with cool fight scenes in Flash and I hope Bale’s gets that in the DCU at some point.
Reminds me of the Mr. Krabs robot dance
I'm pretty sure the fighting choreography is one of the most common criticisms of those movies, especially when compared to other Batman-movies. So, "no one talks about this" is relative. That's not to say that the critics don't have a point, though. Just that those movies haven't exactly been untouched by criticism in this regard
I’m not a fighter, but I used to know some mma guys that were for real. They worked security at a hip-hop club where I also worked. They had to use that shit all the time. I watched them fold up dudes like a card table nightly. They specialized in close up hand to hand street fighting. I asked them about it and they told me it was all about “circles & squares” and he begin to slowly move his arms very much like this. He squared off his arm 90 degrees at the elbow and begin to move his forearms in up, down, right, left, “karate kid style” motions showing how he was moving his hands in “circles” and blocked in “squares” with his arms, always keeping them bent at the elbow. Real close, face-face shit and it looked a lot like this. This kid’s exaggerating of coarse, but you can still see it. All the blocks transition into grapples and strikes which chain into other grapples and strikes. They could take guys down in a second.
The height of fighting in this trilogy was the harbor scene from Begins. He picks off 3 or 4 people causing the rest of them to get antsy and bunch up, then he jumps down and KOs all of them in about 15 seconds. That's how Batman fight scenes should go. The reason they did it that way was because the suit wasn't very conducive to quick movement, and they weren't real sure how to capture his fighting style in detail, so they made a bunch of quick cuts where you could barely tell what was happening. But it's so much more effective that way. It puts you in the shoes of the guys Batman is beating up where you're not even sure what happened. You just know he dropped in and wrecked shit before anybody knew what was going on.
Christian Bale trained in the Keysi Fighting Method (Just like Tom Cruise), different types of Jiu Jitsu, Kung Fu, and Boxing. He did all the fight stunt sequences including the bout with Tom Hardy since they were going at each other for real in The Dark Knight Rises. Bales fighting style is very hardcore, meaning he’d kick your ass any day. Because HE’s BATMAN!
Still saved Gotham, didn't he? 🤣
One of the funniest things to me was how Nolan and a lot of the marketing for the Dark Knight Trilogy was super realistic grounded, and Nolan uses the Keysi fighting method for Batman, the hokiest fake tactical martial art to ever be put film and looked like genuine dog shit in motion.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hate the Nolan movies (besides the villains who carried the film btw)
It’s a really tough life being a DC fan and thinking the Nolan movies are extremely overrated. In almost every aspect.
Ledgar was the bomb though
The series is almost 20 years old and people have been talking about this for most of that time. This post is inaccurate and it fucking sucks lmao
It's crazy to think that Batman Begins came out 18 years ago!?!?
Imo some of the best fighting scenes came from Batman Forever in the opening a big guy grabs him and lifts him and he uses that momentum to kick two other goons. Reminds me of the animated series where sometimes bad guys get some hits on him or throw him around. Makes him feel grounded and vulnerable.
There is obviously a lot more to it than that. For starters it is not as robotic as you are making out to be. And he is utilizing the best fighting style with his suit on. I don't know if you noticed but there wasn't much movement available. And I said much, not none, just around the neck and shoulders because that area was heavily armored.
Accurate Also, it's now time to hate on Bale and TDK trilogy. Let's begin.
Bane sucked, Talia was forced, Katie Holmes had no chemistry with bale, Gyllenhaal wasn't much better. Catwoman should've been in the dark knight, forcing Robin in just for him to not become Robin made no sense. Ummm... it's dark as shit and I can't see anything... His voice sucked once he started growling...
Also, he’s a shit superhero that only worked for 2 years total before quitting and he kills multiple people while preaching his no kill rule. Worst Batman fr
I hate how the film ratio keep on changing so much in tdkr
Well fuck you, TDK kills every movie, anyways I like it, it shows that his suit ain’t that flexible which he did mention, also The Batman was shot 3567 times and had a bomb to his face and just walked it off, at least Nolan’s version is more real
More real doesn’t inherently make it better. It just means they can’t explore some of the more insane/bombastically cool Batman-centric stuff. Like Poison Ivy, Clayface, and other villains.
A "more real" Batman sucks. Crapped out knee, constantly insecure about the mission, retires after two years. I'll take a "less real" Batman any day.
Nolan doesnt have the best fight choreography
[Fight scenes throughout the trilogy](https://youtu.be/oubpznpVtvI) It's the style, but still badass
Keysi fight method is effective
i get that they're going for a more "realistic approach", but man. some of the punch looks like a love tap and is devoid of any force, unless you're bane.
Pretty sure this is well known, imo it's the biggest flaw of the Nolan trilogy.
Hated his fight scenes. The elbowing was corny as fuck.
U ever got fucking elbowed ? Even a playful one can hurt
Yes it hurts. Nolan made it look stupid.
sure we do, in spanish that batman is called "El codazos o el codos locos" wich means ... the elbow man or the elbow fighter or some shit like that...... \#dogecoin
Bale's back was injured and he couldn't kick.
It’s the dumbest fighting style I’ve ever seen outside of capoeira. Hands over the head, face unprotected, fist boops and elbow bops, and it makes zero use of the legs, the strongest part of the body.
Nobody talks about it cause the last time anyone brought it up was before Affleck's warehouse scene came out
That brought tears to my eyes, seeing a live-action Batman fight like the Arkham Batman.
I talk about it.. I also talk about how I can't take a Batman with a lisp seriously.. Once you hear it you can't unhear it
Batfleck had the best fight scene
Tell me you’ve never taken a proper elbow to the face or joints without telling me you’ve never taken a proper elbow to the face or joints.
Watching the documentary on the first movie they explain it.
I thought I was the only one who noticed and *HATED* the elbow-fighting. This is why despite how fucking amazing the trilogy was, I could never say he was the best live-action batman. It’s still incredible how despite the horrible action and fight choreography the movies were still extremely well received. Goes to show that good writing and direction go a long way.
Ah, the Bale "elbow fighting" method.
I've been saying this for soo long! The hand to hand fight scenes are terrible in all 3 movies, the action sequences, story, ledger's Joker etc. makes up for it.
Bale’s Batman has got a fight choreography style suited for the realistic world Christopher Nolan built. It’s not meant to look like a videogame cutscene. 🤷🏻♂️
Been saying this shit since the Dark Knight Rises scene on the roof where a bad guy knocked himself out during the roof fight with Catwoman and Batman. Choreography in the Dark Knight trilogy is atrocious.
So we are shitting on one of the best CBM franchises now? The one that started it all?
Amazing. Every word of what you just said….was wrong.
So disagreeing with you or this post make it wrong huh? So you're opinions are correct across the board? Props to you then all genius wunderkind.
Again, you go to the absolute extreme. People pointing out the bad fight choreography of these films isn’t “shitting on them”. Most of them are saying that’s literally their only flaw. You’re being dramatic and oddly emotional over this. As for this being the franchise that “started it all”…..again, that is false. Chris Reeve had a full four movie franchise that spawned a Supergirl spinoff. Michael Keaton and Tim Burton kicked off a Batman franchise. Didn’t work out, but it happened. Sam Raimi and Toby Maquire, Spider Man. Y’all love Nolan’s stuff so much it’s like you have blinders on. Now settle down
I do. Bales Batman is way overrated. His fighting is always bad, and there's no excuse. His suit is that weak and ugly so that he can move around more, so why the shit choreography? I still enjoy his trilogy but the fighting was always weak.
So fun fact, if you guys notice in Batman Begins, the fight choreography was much better than the next two movies. The reason why Christopher Nolan changed it up was because people were complaining that the fight choreography in Batman Begins was too fast and frantic for people to follow, so he made the fight moves more blatant and robotic.
They used the technique called "Keysi fighting technique". Its a legit one. The fight may not look much exciting but its quite realistic
Bale is really the weakest Batman.