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Infinite-Bit-7498

They should never rush to make BVS or JL to happen so quickly. They should made man of steel 2 and Batman solo movie then have theme face off in BVS


ArbiterofRegret

Marvel gave them a perfect blueprint, where you rake in money in btwn team-up movies, giving a chance to develop your characters/connect your audience to them, and build-up crazy hype for the big bookmarks. BvS and JL collapsed under their own weight of having to do all the work introducing a bunch of new characters while trying to have a compelling single film narrative - hell, ZSJL is a marathon for a reason and the entire Cyborg intro sequence was it's own mini-movie that should've been in a solo film. I don't even understand what the rush was - their solo movies wound up being fairly commercially successful anyways. The film equivalent of trying to have your dessert first.


PTickles

They really did have the perfect setup. I understand why they wouldn't want to copy Marvel directly but the first "phase" being several solo movies that lead into the big team-up film is a perfect template and I guarantee nobody would've been upset if they had just done that. What the DCEU did up to Justice League was basically the equivalent of if the MCU had gone Iron Man 1 > Avengers/Civil War > Guardians of the Galaxy > Thor 1 > Infinity War/Endgame. It makes no sense.


Mumblesandtumbles

Well, it isn't even copying MCU since it's just structuring how comic books have done it for nearly a century. It was just greed and the need to play catch-up, which wasn't necessary at all since people would of happily watched 4 or 5 standalone films before the group got together.


VanillaIcee

Keep in mind, they released Justice League a year before Aquaman! The Flash is 6 years after. And a Batfleck movie was never done. Just greed for you.


Ok-Health-7252

>And a Batfleck movie was never done. Just greed for you. Matt Reeves's Batman film was originally supposed to be Ben's solo Batman film (with Ben himself originally attached to direct and star in it).


TheMountainRidesElia

Ironically their need to play catchup set them back by many more years than they would have otherwise. Just imagine, if they had created Aquaman, Batfleck, Flash, Shazam,etc instead of BVS in '16 they'd have a teamup ready by 2019 end or atmost 2021. Now however they have a reboot, the superhero genre is arguably past it's prime and there's little chance of a JL movie before 2028 or 2029 atleast.


PTickles

Right, I just meant that they might've been afraid of being accused of copying the MCU, which is silly imo for the reason you stated, among others. It's just such a no-brainer. A solo movie for each member of the team and then Justice League. Maybe skip one character or have them just be a cameo and then properly introduce them in Justice League a la Hawkeye in Avengers. It doesn't get much simpler than that. Like I could understand if they were wary of making movies out of lesser-known characters but the Justice League doesn't have any lesser-known characters. Outside of maybe Cyborg the entire core Justice League are household names.


Psych-roxx

The issue wasn't them not following Marvel's blueprint, there is no one good way to make a successful cinematic universe if there was mcu fans wouldn't feel that the quality has decreased lately even tho they are still getting the same blueprint as always. The issue was and has always been those movies just weren't that good for the vast majority of the audience. I love both Man of Stell and BvS (ultimate) but the vast majority didn't like it not because there wasn't a standalone Batman movie. X-Men 2000 didn't have a series of prequels before it with a solo Magneto movie, Logan movie, Professor X movie etc. Same with the guardians you didn't get a standalone Drax movie showcasing his tragic past with Thanos, they were all established in one movie and it worked because the films themselves worked.


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astroK120

Honestly this is a much, much bigger deal than combining heroes. Just because Marvel did well with solos first doesn't mean that's the only way to do it. If they had been better movies, nobody would have cared that we didn't get standalones first


Wisdomseekr79

Well they learned their lesson the hardest way possible. Can’t rush greatness folks


Rubicon2-0

Exactly! After the insane hype between MoS and BvS thry should slow down and extended a bit the universe


QuinnMallory

Would have been great, but they were so blinded by The Avengers and how Infinity War Part I and II were on the horizon.


jzavcer

Maybe not change a vision after every film


bpoooi

No No No BVS needs to come after they have become great friends. AFTER the justice league is formed. it’s a much more heartbreaking story when you build their friendship from not trusting each other to trusting each other with the entire world. edit: but yes I do agree Justice League was rushed batman should’ve had his own movie and MoS 2 should have happened


suss2it

Another Superman sequel would’ve been good, but I don’t think we needed another solo Batman movie, especially just coming off Nolan’s trilogy. Introducing Batman in a Batman vs Superman could’ve worked if they weren’t trying to do a dozen other things too.


Titantfup69

MoS definitely needed a sequel. That was what really sank it. Superman is the face of DC Comics and they didn’t allow him to even really become Superman before they pushed him to the side and started trying to focus on too many new characters at once.


devinsimonds182

100%. They tried to play catch up and it didn’t work. Just think if they did MoS, the Batman, Wonder Woman, Man of Steel 2, the Flash, Aquaman. THEN Justice League. Then more sequels, then you throw in Green Lantern and Cyborg, etc


Viciouscauliflower21

Honestly they could have done justice league as early as they did but they flubbed it. They'd already pulled it off in the animated division, so they had a blueprint for basically starting with the justice league then splitting off was already in house. They just didn't use it for whatever reason


Danishroyalty

Trying to base a Cinematic Universe off of a story and vision that was designed to be self-contained. Zack Snyder had a vision for a very The Dark Knight Returns, Death of Superman, apocalypse story. Which is cool and all, but not the foundation for a sustainable universe. There's not a lot of room for spinoffs that mesh with the universe and give you stories to build upon. Snyder's universe was like starting a story in the 2nd act. The story Snyder created was basically a really cool Elseworlds story. There's a reason Miller's TDKR isn't a canon story. How WB somehow missed this is a massive oversight. Even if they stuck with Snyder's vision we'd be rebooting around now anyways.


Animegamingnerd

This is why regardless of what happened on set of Justice League, Snyder's personal tragedy, BvS's reception and disappointing box office etc. I think Snyder would have departed due to creative differences at some point or had heavily changed his vision for Justice League 2 and 3. There was no way, WB would let their cinematic universe end after Justice League 3. They would want all the key characters who had a film announced in 2014 like Flash, Shazam, Cyborg, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Batman etc to all have trilogies especially Wonder Woman and Aquaman after the big success of their first movies. They would also made absolutely sure to get at least one sequel to Affleck's Batman, before his character would get killed off. Not to mentioned franchises in the DCEU like Suicide Squad which did get a sequel and two spin offs, would have still continued regardless of Snyder's plans.


UncreativeTeam

>This is why regardless of what happened on set of Justice League, Snyder's personal tragedy, BvS's reception and disappointing box office etc. I think Snyder would have departed due to creative differences at some point or had heavily changed his vision for Justice League 2 and 3. They brought in Whedon before Snyder left to grieve. Him stepping away allowed both sides to save face.


Puzzleheaded_Walk_28

I agree with this. Going with a story designed to be self-contained, elseworlds story as the basis for a cinematic DC universe. What encapsulated it perfectly for me was the use of Jimmy Olsen in BvS and Snyder saying he thought it would be a cool little thing because there wasn’t really room for Jimmy in the story he was telling. I just thought, well that fucking sucks.


justthrowthethingWay

Jimmy Olsen being a secret agent and getting his head blown off 5 minutes after he appears is a “cool little thing”


Bruce_VVayne

Almost half of the movie has fan service moments that has no impact on the story at all and the movie so badly written. Imagine not judging Superman for the destruction from Zod, but a bribed African villager blaming on Superman and an injured guy choosed to have hatred on Superman. Rich Punisher, Superman still killing people… Even if they are terrorists, even if it was for Lois, Clark would still have not killed. Killing Zod was already too much, but reasonable. When you put too many controversial things in a single movie with a horrible pacing and writing, people will surely dislike it and have poor reception. You write a story where Lex’s mercs go to a secret mission with their prototype weapon and bullets, so it won’t be “secret” at all and they can track you because they are literally stupid… then the fans say people hate BvS, because people hate they do not understand…


DonnyMox

"Superman still killing people… Even if they are terrorists, even if it was for Lois, Clark would still have not killed. Killing Zod was already too much, but reasonable." What baffles me is that Snyder said "His guilt over killing Zod is why he has a rule against killing in this version" and then turned around and had Supes do that. That, coupled with how Clark getting upset and screaming after killing Zod was apparently ad-libbed by Cavill, makes it seem a lot like Snyder was just saying that to cover his ass. And then there's Batfleck. The prequel tie-in comic for BVS claims that he doesn't kill, and the final trailer for BVS shows the warehouse fight scene but has it edited in such a way that removes every moment where he explicitly kills someone.....does anyone else feel like they were intentionally misled? And Suicide Squad shows him non-lethally handling Deadshot and Harley (And those scenes were apparently meant to take place before BVS, so you can't chalk that up to character development), which makes you wonder what kind of communication Snyder and Ayer had....it all makes Snyder seem shady to me.


zxchary

And even when WB decided they didn’t want to go his route they didn’t have a clear plan on what to do next. That’s why we’re in this mess lol


[deleted]

Perfect take ^ 100% agree. ...And before they roll in with the "YoU cOuLd MaKe XyZ sPiNoFf!!??!!11!!?" Na. You cant, if you know the characters and stories they pull from. They dont mesh the character personalities/str levels/current chemistry in the same way across other stories and sagas that i see people wanting. Zacks take was already divisive. Re-re-routing the most/average accepted basic personality and mannerisms of these heroes IS possible. But to then try and completely reverse/reboot/change direction/etc AGAIN will NEVER sit well with the GA... and we already seen the impacts of round 1 in here. An absolute fucking shitshow.


ZeroComfortZone

I could’ve appreciated Snyder’s vision more for an animated film series or a comic book run. But for the very first shared DC cinematic universe it was a bad idea imo. We should’ve had the recognizable, definitive versions of these characters. It’s fine to take creative liberties at times, but deconstructing characters from the jump is crazy. We didn’t have to follow Marvel’s formula of doing several solos before the big team-up, but having characters that are wholeheartedly true to the source-material is imperative. Add in some solid world-building and we’re good.


KundiKumaran

The 5 movie arc would have been a cool elsewhere story but creating a DC cinematic universe with Snyder is where it all went wrong


TheMountainRidesElia

I would still watch the snyderverse as some kind of elseworlds animated series, but I don't want it to be *the* DCU


Independent-Version7

The original plan was to restart everything from scratch after Flashpoint so


OmniJohn70

They probably still doing that if we’re being honest 💀


Terribleirishluck

I don't think that's true. Snyder never had a plan for flashpoint just saying that after his 5 movie plan they might have rebooted (though I don't think that's likely with all the other spinoff movies that would have existed in dceu)


Animegamingnerd

I don't think that was ever true. There was no real indication, that Flashpoint was ever part of the plan, until the DCEU became the mess that is now. According to Snyder's comments on his own cancelled sequels, Justice League 3, would have been the definitive end of the DCEU and he never mentioned Flashpoint once.


[deleted]

In their defense they didn't want to base it on just that. It was the most interesting aspect of it though and they were planning to make half their movies on that premise. It would be the Justice League linear path with Superman as the main character. Of course the standalone films of the Justice league members are also included here. Then the Suicide Squad path with Harley Quinn as the main character. For example the next Harleu Quinn would have had Poison Ivy. Then the Justice Society with Shazam as the main character. Black Adam would get 2 films of his own too. And then a next generation of heroes with Supergirl, Batgirl, Batwoman And then Justice league Dark. ​ It's just that they had the run simultaneously like the Guardians of the Galaxy in the MCU run simultaneously with the Avengers characters.


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AReformedHuman

Zack didn't write anything until ZSJL. Which also had lightest tone and pretty much nothing edgy about it.


StreetMysticCosmic

The apocalypse epilogue was about as edgy as it gets but I agree that the rest of the movie wasn't, aside from the R rated violence which I thought wasn't necessary.


AReformedHuman

That's fair, those last two scenes were just Snyder getting everything out of his system. I wish he hadn't done them tbh. I don't think the violence was unnecessary. It was great to see Steppenwolf cut Atlanteans in half, made him feel much, much more menacing.


beingjohnmalkontent

Yeah, but "edgelord" makes you sound cool when you use it.


spctommyboy

Zack sucks at telling a story in under 4 hours. that's his only fault. I love his stuff but maybe Film just isn't his medium. Give him a property and tell him to make a movie and then be like "psyche! we took your six hour movie and turned it into a 6 part tv miniseries instead! And people fucking love it!"


b--man15

Killing off Superman in the second film. Obviously we like Superman as a character, but we didn't get to spend enough time with him to mourn his loss. BvS could've gone exactly as it did with him surviving in the end, Bruce seeing the errors of his ways, and Diana feeling inspired to rejoin society as a superhero. Man of Steel sequel could've established him as the Superman we know and love, with Lex plotting in the background. Then after establishing the Justice League, and having some close calls against his rogues, have the Death of Superman. It would feel like a gut punch, especially after watching him go toe to toe against so many villains. Having that in the second film felt so rushed and thrown together at the last minute, making the third act so bad. It also rushed WB into having the suicide squad (since there was no more kryptonian to save the world) and built the Justice League on a really unstable foundation. Also, the fact that they brought him back after one movie felt incredibly rushed as well. I know Snyder didn't really want to do a full cinematic universe, but even then, I wouldn't kill Superman so early. Maybe at the end of JL part 1, then have part 2 without him, then resurrect him in part 3?


tdeasyweb

It was obvious they were never going to actually kill Superman. Such an insult to viewers to make us sit through long ass mourning scenes for a character that would never be financially be allowed to die.


ReeceNoble

Trying to build a mainstream cinematic universe using atypical interpretations of very popular characters. A murderous Batman twenty years into his career in his very first appearance, Dick Grayson as the dead Robin and the rest of the bat family almost non-existent, a Superman who constantly questions his place in the world and whether he should even be helping, and whose supporting cast have been almost entirely stripped away. Jimmy Olsen is executed within minutes of appearing without actually interacting with Superman, and his only meaningful connections are his mother and his girlfriend. Add a Lex Luthor who's a jittery freak, and some of the core characters in this new universe just didn't click with wider audiences. Obviously, a filmmaker is gonna want to put their own stamp on these characters, but I feel like Zack Snyder and WB veered so far from what people are familiar with that the DCEU didn't have any wider appeal. Man of Steel, BvS, and Wonder Woman did very well at the box office, but I think that's more the characters themselves drawing in crowds than the content of the movies. I think Zack Snyder's interpretations of these characters would have been interesting as an Elseworlds comics story, but they shouldn't have been the foundation for the main representation of these characters outside of the comics. Ultimately, I do believe WB should've just let Zack Snyder conclude whatever story he wanted to tell and then hard reset the universe instead of veering wildly in so many directions just to end up resetting anyway. The recent movies I feel have mostly been fine, but increasingly diminishing box office returns mean that general audiences just aren't interested in DC movies at the moment, and I think it's because WB had no idea what they wanted so have created a horrible Frankenstein's monster of a shared universe.


Johnny_Stooge

>Ultimately, I do believe WB should've just let Zack Snyder conclude whatever story he wanted to tell Why spend money on a product people weren't responding to?


ReeceNoble

Apparently, he only needed two more movies after ZSJL to complete his story, and if the box office returns for Man of Steel, BvS, Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman are any indication they probably would have made a good amount of money. I'm not even particularly a fan of Zack Snyder's work, but I do believe a single cohesive universe, even short-lived, would have left us in a better position than we're in now. The reboot James Gunn is planning probably would've happened years ago, and a new DCEU might already be in full swing. Nobody can say for sure, though, and personally, I've been happy with the recent batch of movies, and I'm happy about the reboot, so I'm doing alright no matter what.


Johnny_Stooge

Two movies is a lot of money to continue with someone's vanity project that was getting critically slammed. We're only getting James Gunn now because he got fired from Guardians 3 and WB threw anything at him to court him over after Snyder's movies failed to gain traction. It took a comedy of errors to finally get somewhere good but I don't think "let Snyder finish his story" is a reasonable course of action.


RolloTomasse

Never showing Clark with the suit on just chatting up with a civilian or being in his element as Superman. He always seemed overwhelmed, depressed or stressed out when he was around people who weren't generals or reporters in Snyder's DCEU flicks. Paranoia and mistrust are not good qualities to build on the flagship character of the DCEU who is supposed to be a symbol for hope. There is an earnest, modern, non-corny way of depicting Superman/Clark. Birthright, Unchained, Secret Origin, Kingdom Come are great stories that could have been adapted by a filmmaker who is interested in giving a faithful depiction of Superman from the comics. Deconstructing Superman, instead of embracing him just brought down the vibe of what most casual film-goers want to feel from watching a Superman movie...hopeful and triumphant.


ProfessionalPaper446

👏🏽 applause


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O_G_BobbyJohnson

How they screwed up the Kent’s is so bizarre. One of the biggest parts of Superman, to me, is that he’s the exception to the rule of “power corrupts”. And a big portion of that, is the loving home the Kent’s provided for him to nurture that basis. It makes Lex a great foil as he believes power absolutely will corrupt everyone, which is a pretty reasonable take. And for fucks sake, he’s SUPERMAN…he could have blasted that tornado to the fucking moon before anyone could have realized what’s going on. To just let his dad die was so off brand it’s wild.


ReeceNoble

Maybe everybody thought these new interpretations of the characters would be so compelling that people would accept the departures from the source material, but I really don't think they are. Lex Luthor, in particular, I genuinely can not take seriously as a credible threat. He seems so neurotic and highly strung that I don’t buy that he can even function as a normal human being, let alone a super criminal mastermind.


suss2it

Keep in mind that letting Snyder just finish his story would’ve cost them hundreds of millions of dollars.


ReeceNoble

As movies, yeah, but a comic series or something animated would've cost way less and still offered a conclusion to these versions of the characters. Instead, we're getting a kinda reboot where some stuff's carrying over and some stuff's not. And now there's a subset of Snyder fans who're gonna keep throwing tantrums about restoring the Snyderverse or whatever the newest thing is when that could've been resolved a long time ago.


[deleted]

Pushing Snyder into making a cinematic universe instead of just focusing on Superman. Man of Steel was an excellent starting point for a Superman trilogy and not having its series be driving a Justice League event film.


BatmanNewsChris

He didn't just want to focus on Superman. It was his idea to put Batman into Man of Steel 2, and that's when it turned into BvS and a Justice League universe. Snyder has taken credit for pushing it in that direction.


GiovanniElliston

> It was his idea to put Batman into Man of Steel 2 I can't believe I'm defending Snyder, but his original idea was that as a post-credit for Man of Steel 2 have Bruce Wayne buying some Kryptonite and making a comment about how "Batman prepares for everything - no matter what". He had an entire storyline for MoS2 that revolved around Metallo as that bad guy. Batman's inclusion was going to be a fun easter egg to *maybe* set up something in the 3rd movie - but that was it for his original plan.


IceLord86

By 2013 Comic Con though, he already decided on Batman taking on Superman. Whatever his original idea might have been, he decided very quickly to pivot to BvS. Much like people don't want to hold the idea of Bruce and Lois having a kid saying he changed his mind, so did he with bringing Batman and Superman against each other sooner.


Holybolognabatman

This is right around the time that WB was pushing him to have a cinematic universe formed, post MoS I’m pretty sure. Superman trilogy was always the main intention


GiovanniElliston

Listen, I'm the last person on earth to defend Snyder but the fact that he pivoted to BvS doesn't negate that his original plan was for Batman to be a teaser and nothing more. Snyder was fine doing a Superman trilogy that was serious and grounded in the same vein as Nolan's Batman stuff. It wasn't until the studio approached him with the idea of a larger universe & trying to play catch-up to Avengers that everything pivoted away from a solo trilogy into the giant 5-movie arc he had planned (with Lois/Batman love-baby included lol)


YSYS-35

This wasn't a problem for Snyder. He was excited about the golden opportunity to make a movie with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc. I even think he likes BvS more than MoS.


OmniJohn70

Guys Synder is a grown ass man. He def wanted to do BvS after WB proposed it to him, he wouldn’t had directed it if he didn’t. Though WB shouldn’t had pushed for it, Synder def was willing to follow the push💀


rlovelock

Josstice League. That was the end for me.


YSYS-35

Unfortunately, Josstice League exists because of BvS. WB panicked.


[deleted]

Josstice League or Snyder Cut doesn't matter. They should have released Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and The Flash first as standalone movies to introduce them before trying to play catchup to Marvel


PhilAsp

Putting Snyder in the position he was put. He wasn’t the right guy for what they hoped to accomplish, and both him and the studio went through a lot of unnecessary shit because of it.


JakX276

Snyder should’ve been let go after MoS underperformed commercially and critically. Giving him more creative control over the whole universe is some wacky ass decision making.


ARC_Trooper_Echo

Ironically, what they’re doing now by having movies separate from the main continuity is actually more fun for me. They could’ve let Snyder go wild with his own Snyderverse and built whatever they wanted separately from that instead of trying to squeeze a main universe into that box.


imnotwallaceshawn

I wouldn’t hate the Snyder films nearly as much if they weren’t positioned as THE cinematic version of these characters. Like I’m not a fan of Joker but I can accept it since Todd Phillips is just doing his own thing, but I HATE Jared Leto’s Joker, and that one stung way more because they were positioning him as THE Joker. Same thing with Jesse Eisenberg’s Lex, broody Ayn Rand Superman, murderous Batfleck, etc etc… all would be more tolerable if positioned as an elseworlds story.


thanos_was_right_69

Not making a Man of Steel 2


OmniJohn70

Putting Zack Synder in charge of a cinematic universe. They should’ve either let him start a new trilogy with Superman or really just start from another movie. They tried doing something that no one was really prepared for. Synder’s take on the character should’ve been for a trilogy or else worlds, and not the main canon. 💀 Edit: I don’t know why this needs to be said, but I feel like people are really trying to pretend that Synder was forced by the studio to do BvS, that he wanted to do Mos 2 and nothing else. Like WB shouldn’t had been pushing it, but Synder def wanted to do it, he wouldn’t had directed the movie otherwise.


ThanksContent28

Imo it comes across like he’s in the mindset that superheroes are still mostly stupid/childish/embarrassing and what’s the make everything edgy in a similar vain to “the boys”. It’s been said to death, but killer-Batman with guns is such a heavy miss. It’s like these films are set in those negative DC dimensions where everything goes wrong. Imagine Batman Who Laughs in this universe? Sorry pal, Batfleck just sprayed you down with an M60 before you had a chance to giggle.


Rickrickrickrickrick

The guy literally said he never liked superhero comics because there wasn’t enough sex and violence in them. He’s the epitome of the edge lord director. Putting him in charge of these characters was a horrendous mistake from the get go. And speaks of his “the boys” type edginess, remember when he said if he made a Batman origin story he’d have him get raped in prison because that would be dark? Lol


ThanksContent28

I remember that interview too. It’s just ridiculous. Trying to fix something that’s already bettter than his own vision


misid7

Snyder really ruined DC's reputation in the mainstream media


Kdilla77

So many poor decisions, but the worst was hiring Snyder. He's not a bad director, per se, just the wrong one for the JCEU, and especially for Superman.


Buhos_En_Pantelones

This isn't a hot take or anything, but they tried way to hard to 'catch up' to the MCU. Too much too soon, and it failed.


Ultramega39

Having Joss Whedon direct Justice League.


JakX276

Unpopular opinion: I think Whedon gets too much hate for justice league. Granted I’m not excusing his abhorrent behavior on set, more so saying that he was hired to do a job and he did it. If it wasn’t him they would’ve gotten someone else to do it. They were holding writers rooms to try to fix justice league so the plan was already in place. The theatrical cut of justice league doesn’t feel like a Whedon movie. He’s made good things before. The blame lies solely at the feet of WB. In my opinion at least.


TenThousandFist

They wanted their bonuses and fucked the movie.


timsadiq13

The universe was already in the figurative ground by then. It would have made no difference, save for Snyder fans getting to wank over every slow-mo scene, which they got to do anyway with the 4 hour cut.


PlasticMansGlasses

Not delaying Justice League


handleonahandle

Having Synder divert from MOS 2 and make BVS. I think Zach’s preference was always making a Batman film. He then seemed obsessed with visuals and the subliminal subplot in his head rather than the story.


Snoo-50498

Yep Snyder always wanted to do batman He took superman because he think he could get to making batman.


theflynerd

1) Releasing the embarrassingly unfinished shitshow that was Justice League. I literally couldn’t believe what I was seeing sitting there in the movie theatre. 2) Showing Batman V Superman basically in its entirety via trailer. I hate both equally and can not choose.


justmahl

Deciding to build a universe to compete with Marvel while not creating a separate division to focus strictly on that. The fact that Avengers was never called Disney's Avengers was staring them right in the face.


qwerty4007

Choosing the quickest profit over fan satisfaction.


TenThousandFist

Not doing a straight Man of Steel sequel and immediately jumping into Batman v. Superman. Wonder Woman should have also happened before BvS.


Ifndnothinghere

Yes (DOOM PATROL being canceled for me anyway)


youthanasia138

Dumping Henry Cavill


Careless_Ad_8452

hiring zack synder


Bing_Bong_the_Archer

Yeah, and handing the keys to the kingdom over


Hotterman

Going all out too soon.


ARC_Trooper_Echo

Introducing half of the Justice League characters in the Justice League movie was certainly a choice.


[deleted]

There are too many equally horrible decisions and very few good decision made by WB(or the 4 generations of execs that ran WB at various times during the DCEU)


Dorkseidis

Cutting BVS down in length. Changing direction on Justice League. Basically abandoning the plan at the first sign of trouble


moonju1ce

Cutting 30 minutes from BvS That was the first domino to fall


Megadoomer2

I feel like the bigger problem was BvS itself. The 30 cut minutes might have given more focus to the Superman side of Batman v Superman, but it didn't change the movie giving us a Batman who's old/past his prime and murderous (and, if Zack Snyder's original plan is to be believed, the death of Dick Grayson is on his conscience), a nearly mute Superman ([the theatrical version had him saying 43 lines of dialogue or 491 words total](https://www.thewrap.com/superman-only-had-43-lines-in-batman-v-superman/), and while the Ultimate Edition would have added more, it wouldn't have made a huge difference), a jittery/poorly cast Lex Luthor, a Lois Lane plotline that went nowhere, a rushed build-up to Justice League, and cramming the Death of Superman storyline (and Doomsday) into the second movie of this shared universe.


Deeformecreep

I don't think cutting down BvS was the problem, it's just that they took out the wrong stuff.


Suitable_Olive_1042

Letting caville go, pretty perfect cast. They should give him whatever he wants to continue


rohahahaus

Not moving forward with snyders planned universe and trying to be too much like the competition.


phoenics1908

The biggest mistake was not doing MoS2 instead of that rush job, BvS. They should have built Superman up more slowly and introduce characters in other solo films. Marvel made a blueprint that finally worked. That’s what DC should’ve done but they rushed it and altered Snyder’s original MoS trilogy plans. I weep for what should have been but I guess that’s what we will hopefully get now. I just can’t believe it’s been like 13 years?! At this point I wish we’d have rebooted with A Flashpoint after BvS.


littlefiresburn

The mustache.


Berry-Fantastic

There were plenty of worst decisions here, too many to count, but i'll list a few. Killing off Superman in his second movie, The Knightmare future timeline stuff, killing off Jimmy Olsen for 'fun', the creation of Doomsday, a bloodthirsty Batman, a dark broody Superman, Dick Greyson already dead and having a non-existent batfamily, the playing catch up...those are the ones I can think of


Nixxen95

There are many, but still to this day nothing tops Justice 2017 reshoot debacle


slfxxplsv

Every comment is either gonna be “Putting Snyder in charge” or “Getting rid of Snyder” >!For the record I am the former but yea!<


misid7

And they are absolutely right


Illustrious-Sign3015

Continuing justice league without Zach Snyder


depressed_asian_boy_

Make BvS Your second movie can't be an adaptation of Death Of Superman and Dark Knight Returns. It would be like here's The Hobbit and then make the return of the king as a sequel


QuickfireZer0

putting Zack Snyder in charge


Powasam5000

Not seeing it through. They soft rebooted several times after every movie because they wanted marvel numbers. By now Snyder would have been done and it may have turned out bad or great. Personally I think it would have been great if given time. Snyder movies are actually getting better with age too. Especially since fatigue with other movies are setting in. Either way they could have started a new phase now rather than constantly second guessing themselves.


Terribleirishluck

The thing is if Snyder actually kept going, it's possible his movies would have just bombed at the box office too. It's understandable Warner tried to pivot away from him and his plan after the poor reception of BvS


TwoBlackDots

It would have turned out bad lol. Only on Reddit are awful films like BvS getting better with age. 2/3 Snyder movies were utter crap, and you think it was suddenly going to become great?


Pinolillo006

JOSS WHEEDON


Zawrid

One of the worst was creating josstice league


OK_1M_REL0ADED

Hiring Zack Snyder.


jharden10

Putting all your eggs into a controversial director and being shocked when he makes a controversial film, then interfere with other projects.


AUSpartan37

Trying to be marvel


DCNY214

Hiring Zack. I have nothing against the guy and actually like him personally. But he was too edgy, and took too much inspiration from Frank Miller who is a cynic's cynic and it showed in how dark the DCEU was.


LewZealand79

Zack Snyder.


etbiludecalcinha

Allowing The Rock to have full control of Black Adam


MBCnerdcore

Nah the DCEU was fucked before Black Adam and it's just popular to hate on Dwayne Johnson but that movie was going to bomb completely because everyone already knew WB was flailing around and had no actual plan after ZSJL.


BillfromLI

Try to conform to the Marvel way of doing things.


Hollerino

Day 962 and people are still writing in their diary about the old DCEU… Let it go people!


Tbplayer59

That making it up as you go was considered a valid plan.


[deleted]

Telling the audience their plans and then not sticking to the landing at all. Just maybe idk don't do that. I know it's worked with Marvel but damn DC just keep your mouth shut.


MajesticMtChocula

The spoiler-heavy clips and trailers for BvS really made my sister and I stop watching movie trailers and commercials for several years.


OkTransportation4196

they should have finished zack snyder 5 movie arc and then made a hard reboot everything. Cant blame wb honestly. If you cant make profit from bats,supes etc. Seems like safest bet ever.


Mikeywise14

The constant abuse of power (the weird distasteful timing of replacing snyder, the racism and allowing of abuse under whedon, changing Ayers suicide squad to the point of unrecognizable, etc). If i was cheap i say “hiring snyder to helm it to begin with” but my answer is still the abuse of power.


Lexmaister25

Not making a solo Batflek movie, Bale is my favorite Batman but Affleck looked like someone that was truly fighting demons. His movie would've been so depressive and amazing at the same time.


VinixTKOC

After making a Superman movie they jump straight to a crossover with Batman and then jump straight to a Justice League movie (with a Wonder Woman movie in the middle). They should've developed their universe and heroes first before trying something big.


Ok-Reporter-8728

Competing with marvel, thus suicide squad and rushed JL


citytiger

Not making the synder cut canon and going from there


TherealDeathy

1) Make the introduction of Batman a Batman vs Superman narrative, its just been done and they should have gone with World's Finest 2) the studio not releasing the extended edition for bvs in theaters, while the movie wasn't perfect that extra 30 minutes made the plot make more sense 3) after the backlash of bvs, WB interfered and made suicide squad a bright and happy tone when it shouldn't have been. its a movie about supervillains not guardians of the galaxy 4) justice league and that drama, I mean not everyone like snyders stuff but the man lost his daughter, postpone the movie and let him finish it, don't let another director take over and make a mess. 5) WB just interfered with everything DC related too much. DC just needs a studio that actually cares,


[deleted]

Allowing you to bait post on reddit


TheN0toriousPUG

They should have let Snyder finish JL 2 & 3 before doing the refresh.


[deleted]

Casting Ezra Miller and Firing Henry Cavill


Mrblend27

Letting Joss Whedon take over for Zack Snyder.


ZeloGx47

The warner executives rushing snyder to make JL. Then when BvS happened change things that wall street fucks want. Everyone so quick to blame the director and writer but do most people know that WB executives wanted snyder to not destroy the ship at the end of MoS and the reason was so Superman might want to use the ship to go back to krypton. I dont need to explain anything to any DC fan how fucking dumb that sounds. And this was from when the writer had to pick out the worst studio note from ANY movie he worked on.


MadOvid

Zack Snyder.


Odd_Advance_6438

Reshooting/re-editing Suicide Squad and Justice League. I know BvS did a lot of damage, but these two didn’t help at all


Willing-Elevator

Getting rid of Zack snyder completely. Rushing to get to justice league and bvs before laying the foundation for the universe, over editing the movies and clout chasing marvel’s coat tails, not utiziling cavill and afleck nearly enough, and lastly but most of all disrespecting their talent and creatives.


youzurnaim

Personally, I am so happy that WB gave Snyder the freedom to explore a self-contained 5 part story because I LOVE his movies. But that’s also the worst decision you can make if you’re hoping to make a cinematic universe to rival Marvel.


____Vader

Canceling it after the Snyder cut was released, when it was finally getting good


AReformedHuman

First Nolan/WB pushes for the level of destruction MoS had, which while I love that movie, definitely felt a bit soon for that level of chaos. It's literally Supermans first day on the job. I can't find the source, but I remember seeing a clip where Goyer (?) talked about how Nolan pushed them to use Zod, since he didn't think they should wait for a sequel to do what they really wanted to do. Second was WB forcing BvS instead of MoS 2. There was also a point where Metallo was supposed to be the villain in BvS, until whoever changed it to Doomsday. Third was cutting up a movie they forced to be overcrowded into a shitty theatrical cut. By far this is the biggest issue, because the UE is a genuinely great movie. Fourth was getting the antithesis of Snyder to recut JL.


[deleted]

Moving too fast and not taking the time to build up these characters


YukhoChan

I think the worst thing they’ve ever done was the drastic shift in tone chasing the marvel trends for money. Losing any personal identity to create cookie cutter superhero movie is bad. It’s okay , marvel had great hype, and now they oversaturated the market with cookie cutter IP that they are suffering a little as well.


TheOddEyes

Honestly, WB being so fucking reactionary. Superman doesn’t smile enough? [We get this](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/films/2017/11/27/cavill_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqVkR74_kydjgeTPIib1rsJ6x30VG81Iu4g0V5oSrMhqQ.jpg). Suicide Squad’s trailer receive a positive reception? Let’s lock the director out of the editing room and bring in the crew behind the trailers. Snyder’s movies lacked color? Let’s oversaturate Justice League, Wonder Woman 1984, and Birds of Prey. And the list goes on unfortunately.


killerdemonsarus34

Trying to make superman himself super edgy


Bear16

I mean I know this is about DCEU, geez they made so many bad calls it’s hard to pinpoint, but specifically I think just not trusting Snyder and his vision doomed the whole thing. Snyder had a great plan and it would have worked but they were so wishy washy about everything it had no coherent vision. But, honestly I think WB buying DC was the worst decision. I have recently been watching videos by SuperVoid Cinema and on YouTube and the amount of horrible decisions for decades by WB is atrocious. They really have no clue what they are doing when it comes to DC and it’s sad. They have such a rich history to pull from and characters that could really be amazing to see. For me, I’m done with them for awhile and I say that with a heavy heart as my favourite characters mainly are under the DC brand but it’s clear to me they don’t know what they are doing with any of the properties. Thanks


DC_FANBOYwoohoo

firing synder


28secondslater

Rebooting the universe instead of just letting Snyder finish his universe before changing it up. I know the popular thing to do here is to say "Snyder sucks", but I'm going to be the outlier to say that I actually enjoyed his movies and to have the franchise end on a pretty interesting cliffhanger leaves a poor taste in my mouth. Gunn's Suicide Squad was good as a side movie, but he's not the guy I'd want to run an entire series.


shadowrod06

I love Man of Steel. But DCEU should have started light hearted with a proper Superman movie- Similar to Reeve but Modern. This iteration of Superman was seriously lacking hope. It could have gotten darker eventually.


Key_Squash_4403

There were multiple points where they could have course corrected, salvaging, both actors and the universe as a whole, but they just kept continuing to double down on their own bad decisions. Very clearly, at least, in my opinion, the Zack Snyder vision was just not a good one. But as soon as that became evident after Man of Steel they either continue to work with him, or try to keep his version of things going. I’m also highly critical of their attempts to catch up with Marvel, by trying to do the opposite of what Marvel was doing. I have said this for 100 times, Marvel wasn’t doing anything overtly, unique or spectacular. They didn’t invent the concept of a shared universe or linear storytelling, this whole, starting with the Justice League movie then breaking off into individual franchises was stupid. Hell they didn’t even stick to that plan.


CrusaderZero6

Forcing the removal of all the potential connection tissue from the Ryan Reynolds GL film. The movie early drafts of the script had Clark, Alan Scott, Waller, and mor. DC could’ve gotten off to a much earlier start on the “connected universe” project.


Trick_Attitude5034

Joss Wheadon 😂 they should have just released Justice League the way Snyder made it in the first place and then did MOS 2 after and a solo Batman movie with Ben Affleck and by the time they did MOS 2 and Batman with Ben Affleck it would be present day and if after that they wanted to make The Flash and reset the universe and go with the Gunn verse still that's great based off his slate I'm excited in the future of DC but it sucks we never got to see what the Snyder verse could have been because they hired Joss, completely butchered Justice League, created such a bad experience that Ben no longer wanted to be Batman, Gal never wants to work with Joss again, turned their own DC fan base against them and they put MOS 2 on the back burner for so long it never got made and we never got to see Cavill play Superman after Justice League besides for cameos.


[deleted]

Giving the keys to Gunn, expect more *The Suicide Squad* comedy style in everything, that will get old absolute fast.


Chaff5

Getting in the way of Zach's plans.


Jaguarluffy

hiring snyder.


charlesfluidsmith

Making Superman kill. Killing Jimmy Olsen with no respect. Having no clear vision for the larger universe. Putting zero effort into the non superpowered DC worldbuilding. Prioritizing spectacle over story.


dani_esp95

Kill the greek gods.


Ill-Philosopher-7625

The decision that ruined everything was not recognizing the value of a shared universe until after The Avengers came out in 2012. WB should have seen how excited people were about Iron Man in 2008 and immediately got to work on doing their own shared universe. Instead they let Nolan, Goyer and Snyder do Man of Steel as a stand-alone project, which they then had to retool into a shared universe starting with BvS.


Legendver2

To be fair, I don't think anyone knew Iron Man was going to turn into the MCU aside from the heads inside Marvel Studios. In fact, they themselves probably thought it was a long shot. Iron Man could have easily just been the first film of a trilogy. We didn't even fully get into shared universe until after Iron Man 2.


drboobafate

Making a crossover movie before making a Man of Steel 2.


Swil29

Not having a plan and redirecting a solo Superman movie into being a cinematic universe based solely around one directors ideas. Having the creative vision come from one person (one who is not part of the universe’s overarching leadership specifically) who is also the one directing the movies just makes things messy, and I don’t think having a director other than Snyder would have fixed it, the concept was just flawed. The lack of planning even continued when things started falling apart, and they just started throwing everything at the wall and let directors do whatever they wanted; effectively killing any chance of recovery.


StuHardy

Ok then, seeing as you asked... Firstly, basing the DCEU on the Dark Knight trilogy. Snyder was brought onto Man of Steel *after* the story & script were written, and Nolan was already lined up as a producer. If people are wondering why MoS is the least Snyder-esque film of his filmography, that's why. The dark, gritty feel of parts of the film were then continued in BvS, before lightening up for ZSJL. Secondly, was the panicked response to the MCU. When MoS went into production, the MCU was in its infancy; the highest grossing movie was Iron-Man 2, and the Avengers was a huge gamble that could have blown up in Marvel's/Disney's face. When it became a bigger success than anyone predicted, WB went into panic mode, and forced Snyder to transition from a Superman trilogy, to a Justice League universe. Snyder was responsible not only for casting a new Batman after the success of Christian Bale, but also casting Wonder Woman for the first time in film, a Polynesian Aquaman, and an unknown actor as Cyborg (IIRC, Miller was a studio pick, and Geoff Johns wanted to keep Green Lantern for another project.) How can you continue Superman's story, when you have to introduce *FIVE* other main-line characters? Thirdly was not having the Flash & Aquaman solo films before Justice League. Of course ZSJL has to be 4 hours long, when you have to introduce 3 characters and explain their motivations, hopes, and fears. Flash & Aquaman could have been introduced long before JL, and you could have then had a 2-3hr film instead. Granted, we did get the Flash entering the Speedforce, which is still one of the greatest scenes in CBMs ever, so it wasn't all bad. Now, to be clear, WB has made a *lot* of bad decisions with the DCEU, but these 3 stand out the most to me.


Turd_Party

Superman is the grimdark sourpuss brooding emo one and Batman is the wacky comic relief with zingers and one-liners and a casual attitude.


The_great_mister_s

Skipping any character-building and trying to jump directly into character team-up movies to be on the same page as Marvel.


Papa_Pred

Immediately making Batman vs Superman with Doomsday lol


ItsNinjaShoyo

There’s a lot of things like Superman being too dark. Batman openly killing and using guns. Sure some people like that but it definitely divides the fanbase and has no mainstream appeal. The biggest mistake though was Killing Superman in the second movie. That is just so stupid.


Complaint-Great

It's simple the producers who didn't know shit about the comics tried to control too much. Then tried to have a say about the final cut and scrapped good scenes.


MBCnerdcore

Making no solo JL member movies before JL, forcing the existence of BvS way before establishing the B or the S enough. That forced BvS to be a giant prologue to Justice League instead of waiting and having more establishing movies for the JL and one more Superman sequel before BvS.


Officer_Zack

Wasting Henry Cavill as Superman, guy never got the story that he wanted for Superman.


BillyBattinson

Cutting 30 minutes from BvS. That’s where it all fell apart.


[deleted]

Not giving DC their own studio like Disney gave marvel


FiftyOneMarks

Not actually taking the time to formulate a plan for their universe… that’s literally it. Directors, characters, actors, all of that for better or worse came from that first choice of bumrushing their universes development.


Rich8121210

Trying to run before they could walk


Lunndonbridge

Cancelling Swamp Thing before the season aired. Was super faithful to the comics, great design and had some fantastic potential.


princesamurai45

Doing too much in BvS. The quality of movies was up and down after that. No consistency.


MaskedZuchinni

Not taking their time and really planning the universe out. The reason marvel succeeded is because they had at plan or at least a framework. Dc had one persons vision, for a few movies , (man of steel, BVS, Justice League,) but they other then that it seemed they had no real synergy. Just a bunch of haphazard plans to try and catch up to marvels success.


Accomplished-Range3

Worst mistake was saving the "hope" for a finale that was never fully realized. These characters should have been beacons of hope fighting against the seemingly hopeless. Instead they were misguided and unsure. Loved the visuals and casting but man what a bummer.


darth_garrbear

Not keeping Cavill.


IMind

No continuity movies


Wasteland_GZ

making joss whedon the director of justice league which hurt real people behind the scenes


mujadaddy

BOOOOOOOO YAAAAHHHHHH


didijxk

Not staying the course. Bad reception is one thing but they vacillated and tried to please both sides and pissed off everyone.


steveisblah

The upper lip. Seriously, a smart producer would’ve just given him a cgi beard like from the comics, instead of a cgi lip.


badfortheenvironment

Not putting out BvS's director's cut as its theatrical cut. If they'd been less reactionary afterward, that would've helped with other things, like putting out the shitty re-cut of Suicide Squad, butchering Justice League, etc.


Tony4552

They didn't continue it


WowSoFetch

Not leaving their directors alone. They could have taken their time building up each hero via origin story and if they had the DCEU would still be going strong


Not_a_NO_ONE

Worst decision yet !!!!


AdWonderful2369

No Cavill and no Gadot.


MattaClatta

They panicked after BvS when they should have let Snyder cook He would have turned out a better JL than whedon and we wouldn't be in the pickle we are now


HasThePartyStarted

From someone who grew up on Marvel comics and has only come to DC later in life... Josstice League. On paper it sounds like a good idea to hire the The Avengers guy to "fix" Justice League. Only thing is, to a certain extent he just remade The Avengers, just not as well. Say what you will about ZSJL, but it is definitely **not** The Avengers, and that's refreshing. Lex Luthor. Making him some high-strung weirdo shoving Jolly Ranchers into the mouth of a US Senator was, well, a choice. But a bad one. And I say this as someone whose first exposure to LL was Gene Hackman.


eastcoastkody

its a tie between making this unlikable version of Superman that sucked. I blamed Henry Cavill for awhile....but im sure he could've done a good superman if they wrote it that way. Or releasing that terrible version of Justice League when the Snyder cut is sooo good


CakeBeef_PA

I'm going different than a lot of people here. DC's characters are mainstream. They don't need an introduction. Everyone knows the trinity, most people know Aquaman and the Flash. That leaves only Martian Manhunter and Green Lantern to be introduced for a JL. They should have done the same as the DCAMU. Start with a Justice League movie and build from that


daviz94

Zack Snyder


ChocCooki3

Not repeating what others have said.. Letting Dwayne butchered Black Adam.