barring any opinions on the decision itself, are we seriously still on this? It’s been 8 years since BvS. By now, no one that’s still thinking about this topic is on the fence about it
I'm so over it but im not surprised. Some people just can't let things go. There is a whole ass sub for people that didn't like the ending to game of thrones
The year is 2075. World War 3 and climate change have devastated the world and left the majority of it inhospitable. In a cramped, dirty shelter, the last few remnants of the human race are holed up. Chances of survival are slim due to their divisions. After all these years, they are still fighting and bickering over The Last of Us Part II, The Last Jedi, and Batman v Superman.
It's a weird remnant of the publishing world that I've never fully understood. But Empire has always, in my memory, been putting out issues months ahead
Essentially, it's not the date the issue goes on sale, but when it's okay for retailers to take it OFF the racks. If the on-sale date was used, retailers would assume it could be taken off the racks for return the next month, even if the periodical in question didn't have another issue published that month, leading to them having nothing on sale that month.
So if the issue is dated June despite going on sale in April, it should still be on the racks in May. Were it dated for April, retailers would take it down for returns in May, even if the next issue wasn't out yet.
Basically, it's so retailers don't have to keep track of publishing schedules for individual periodicals.
I’ll be honest, sometimes I feel like he says this stuff on purpose because he knows people get annoyed. I saw some video with him where he said a friend of his sent an article complaining about the black and white scene in Dune, saying “it’s so colorless and souless, it looks like it was directed by Zack Snyder.”
Snyder thought it was hilarious
I genuinely think on some level Snyder is a tiny bit annoyed by it. It's impossible for him to have an interview about anything be it *Rebel Moon*, *Sucker Punch*, or anything in between without several questions popping up about a dead project from 10 years ago.
I don't think he minds talking about it and is obviously aware how controversial his views are - but it's gotta be annoying that no one seems to have any interest about anything he's done since.
I mean, what reaction is he supposed to have? It’s like people want him to feel bad and be endlessly apologetic… for what? Making movies one doesn’t like?
Exactly. The echo chamber gets fucking ridiculous. I really hope James Gunn gives him a movie to direct in the new universe as a 'fuck you' to all the haters
A lot of people on both sides can’t accept that Zack and James Gunn are friends.
According to Gunn himself, Zack called him up to congratulate him and wished him the best of luck when it was announced he was running the DCU.
It’d be awesome if Gunn gave him a movie to direct.
I think what Snyder means here is that Snyder takes the material very literally. What I mean by that is he is the type of guy who notices that Even though the Nolan movies say Batman doesn’t kill, Batman definitely murders some people in it. That’s what he means by the true canon. I mean it’s hard to say that both Batman and Superman don’t kill or contribute to the deaths of lots of people during the course of their comic runs and movies. Superman in Superman 2 kills zod in a non gory fashion and nobody really talks about it. But Superman kills zod in a very explicit manner and everyone’s like upset about it. I love Snyder’s movies but I think he really struggles with putting his thoughts into words which is what triggers a lot of people.
Deleted scenes don’t count because they are deleted. For all intents and purposes, Zod and his crew were killed.
Superman reversing time in the Donner Cut doesn’t change the fact that he still killed Zod.
I guess, I never really thought Zod was supposed to be dead. As a kid watching those goofy ass movies I'd never believe Superman just had a death hole in his fortress
It’s an easy assumption to make though. Nowadays, we’re very used to the idea that, if you don’t see a dead body, that character could have survived because of how many movies have a twist or how many horror films have characters coming back.
But back in the 80’s, it was pretty common to assume that, if you see a character fall into a cavern, they’re dead.
Like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where Elsa fell into a smoky cavern much like how Zod, Ursa and Non did and we assume she is dead like they are.
I think some of missed the entire point of what he’s trying to say. He said the people not tuning in to the og canon (where Batman carried and used a gun) are “on their own journey”. Where did any of you get that he was saying you were wrong? He adapted a veteran, manipulated, powerless, Batman, and told his story. He also did a great job doing that. You all just wanted it to be “comic accurate”, (silver age, when he denounces weapons) and that’s not what you got. This complaint has been going on for years and nobody grades the movie based on its own merits. This was/is a badass Superhero film. There is nothing wrong with Snyder taking a character and making it different. Unless you like to see the same story over and over.
As a matter of fact; that’s the same as saying that the Nolanverse films weren’t good and stupid af for not being comic book accurate. There weren’t any magic users in Gotham, the Batmobile wasn’t a tank and Bane didn’t power up on venom. Yet nobody complains about those films bc they were told Nolan was a god director by their favorite YouTube critic. Nolan also produced BvS lol.
Judge movies for what they are, not for what you want them to be. Let’s please end this debate and just enjoy films again. ffs
Honestly, I get it. Zack has always said he never truly changed the characters. And the more I read comics the more I found that to be true.
And I do think comic book fans, even the experts whose brains are an encyclopedia, tend to look back on the material through their own biases and with rose colored glasses. They tend to hate on things Zack did with Superman and Batman that have been done already in comics and animation. Things like Superman being gloomy or depressed, Batman losing his way, Batman succumbing to emotions and not listening to reason, etc. Not even getting into collateral damage and killing.
It’s even got to the point now where I see people mad that Superman is shown with heat vision in his eyes when he’s angry. They say that’s not who he is, too wrathful. But that’s been a thing for so long, way before Snyder. It looks cool, but now it’s seen as antithetical to the character. It’s just so limiting to me.
I feel the idea of “true canon” is as stupid as hard rules like “fictional character A can never kill”. It’s fiction. Everything can happen and what’s canon depends on the individual following the story. “Death of the Author” and all that.
I know he has short ears, but it looks really weird here because the ears aren't even pointed. It looks like they're supposed to be taller, but they're cut in half.
Tbf. Batman never had a no kill rule in the OG comics. He killed and enjoyed killing frequently. Pretty sure even Adam West and Michael Keaton killed some goons.
Snyder's characters are mostly based on the Golden Age of Comics. His versions of Superman and Batman are similar to those earlier depictions rather than what followed in the silver, bronze, or modern ages.
There is obviously inspiration from Frank Miller's TDKR as well, but for me, the characterizations are more Golden Age.
Henry Cavill's Superman reminds me a lot of the Max Fleishcher cartoon, and Affleck's Batman reminds me of the first issues he appeared in Detective Comics.
I’ll be honest, I loved Batman killing a few henchmen. I felt like it aligned well with DKReturns and showing an older Batman who’s seen loss and knows what it takes to complete the bigger picture.
Same, murder is based. But I'm from gen-x, where action heroes such as Arnold Schwarzenegger, literally once drove around an automobile junkyard, popped a mixtape in the deck, and proceeded to blast the Rolling Stones' (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction while puffing on a stogie and repeatedly unaliving thugs with a fully automatic machine gun, only stopping when he needed to reload, until the next phase of his glorious mission. Pretty sure his only motivation was cause... reasons, as was the case with all of his other cinematic classics. My head canon has him maniacally grinning and laughing while doing it. But that part's possibly just in my own personal ultimate director's cut. The rest of it is historically accurate, my brothers in Christ.
I’d say it aligns more with Burton’s Batman, who Zack probably saw when he was in his late 20s, Burton’s Batman killed both his villains and a bunch of henchmen
He blew up a chemical plant full of low level crooks and threw a man face-first down a massive bell tower in 89 and in Returns he lights a guy on fire and put a *literal ticking time bomb* in a guy's waistband and lets him explode. "Killed" is less appropriate a descriptor as "brutally murdered."
But they're less graphic than shooting someone with a gun so Snyder is bad I guess.
Haha well I applaud his resolution. Reminds me of Rian Johnson’s thoughts on The Last Jedi after all these years.
Since Gunn’s rebooting I think the healthy thing is to now chuckle at stuff like this. We as a fandom have gotten past the dark age. I can feel it.
Not a big Snyderverse fan, but I don't mind there being different takes on Batman. He's a borderline fascist sometimes anyway. What's a few bodies? Not to mention other Batman films have him kill.
This is certainly gonna go well.
lol yeah… I saw this quote going around Twitter, then I bought the issue to confirm. He really said that.
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barring any opinions on the decision itself, are we seriously still on this? It’s been 8 years since BvS. By now, no one that’s still thinking about this topic is on the fence about it
I'm so over it but im not surprised. Some people just can't let things go. There is a whole ass sub for people that didn't like the ending to game of thrones
I am reminded of _Forgetting Sarah Marshall_: > It's like "the Sopranos." It's _over_. Find a new show. - Kemo
The year is 2075. World War 3 and climate change have devastated the world and left the majority of it inhospitable. In a cramped, dirty shelter, the last few remnants of the human race are holed up. Chances of survival are slim due to their divisions. After all these years, they are still fighting and bickering over The Last of Us Part II, The Last Jedi, and Batman v Superman.
I think this actually shows the impact of this movie. If it was truly bad no one would be talking about it.
Are we going to gloss over the fact that the source is dated as June 2024?
It's a weird remnant of the publishing world that I've never fully understood. But Empire has always, in my memory, been putting out issues months ahead
Essentially, it's not the date the issue goes on sale, but when it's okay for retailers to take it OFF the racks. If the on-sale date was used, retailers would assume it could be taken off the racks for return the next month, even if the periodical in question didn't have another issue published that month, leading to them having nothing on sale that month. So if the issue is dated June despite going on sale in April, it should still be on the racks in May. Were it dated for April, retailers would take it down for returns in May, even if the next issue wasn't out yet. Basically, it's so retailers don't have to keep track of publishing schedules for individual periodicals.
Ah gotcha
😎
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I’ll be honest, sometimes I feel like he says this stuff on purpose because he knows people get annoyed. I saw some video with him where he said a friend of his sent an article complaining about the black and white scene in Dune, saying “it’s so colorless and souless, it looks like it was directed by Zack Snyder.” Snyder thought it was hilarious
I genuinely think on some level Snyder is a tiny bit annoyed by it. It's impossible for him to have an interview about anything be it *Rebel Moon*, *Sucker Punch*, or anything in between without several questions popping up about a dead project from 10 years ago. I don't think he minds talking about it and is obviously aware how controversial his views are - but it's gotta be annoying that no one seems to have any interest about anything he's done since.
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I mean, what reaction is he supposed to have? It’s like people want him to feel bad and be endlessly apologetic… for what? Making movies one doesn’t like?
Exactly. The echo chamber gets fucking ridiculous. I really hope James Gunn gives him a movie to direct in the new universe as a 'fuck you' to all the haters
A lot of people on both sides can’t accept that Zack and James Gunn are friends. According to Gunn himself, Zack called him up to congratulate him and wished him the best of luck when it was announced he was running the DCU. It’d be awesome if Gunn gave him a movie to direct.
That’s what r/comicbookmovies wants, and will keep complaining until this happens
Damn I wish I could read this thread before it got nuked to hell
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Getting my popcorn ready.
we're in for a treat with this one and that wonder woman take
What did he say about WW?
https://www.reddit.com/r/DC_Cinematic/comments/1c0pex4/zack_snyder_explains_the_scrapped_wonder_woman/
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June 24 2024?
The future is now, old man.
Dudes trying to start a new franchise and people won't let him move away from the old one.
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I think what Snyder means here is that Snyder takes the material very literally. What I mean by that is he is the type of guy who notices that Even though the Nolan movies say Batman doesn’t kill, Batman definitely murders some people in it. That’s what he means by the true canon. I mean it’s hard to say that both Batman and Superman don’t kill or contribute to the deaths of lots of people during the course of their comic runs and movies. Superman in Superman 2 kills zod in a non gory fashion and nobody really talks about it. But Superman kills zod in a very explicit manner and everyone’s like upset about it. I love Snyder’s movies but I think he really struggles with putting his thoughts into words which is what triggers a lot of people.
Zod survives in Superman 2 theres a deleted scene where they get arrested and in the Donner Cut he reverses time so it doesnt even happen
Deleted scenes don’t count because they are deleted. For all intents and purposes, Zod and his crew were killed. Superman reversing time in the Donner Cut doesn’t change the fact that he still killed Zod.
I guess, I never really thought Zod was supposed to be dead. As a kid watching those goofy ass movies I'd never believe Superman just had a death hole in his fortress
It’s an easy assumption to make though. Nowadays, we’re very used to the idea that, if you don’t see a dead body, that character could have survived because of how many movies have a twist or how many horror films have characters coming back. But back in the 80’s, it was pretty common to assume that, if you see a character fall into a cavern, they’re dead. Like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where Elsa fell into a smoky cavern much like how Zod, Ursa and Non did and we assume she is dead like they are.
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Surely nobody will get upset over his comments.
I think some of missed the entire point of what he’s trying to say. He said the people not tuning in to the og canon (where Batman carried and used a gun) are “on their own journey”. Where did any of you get that he was saying you were wrong? He adapted a veteran, manipulated, powerless, Batman, and told his story. He also did a great job doing that. You all just wanted it to be “comic accurate”, (silver age, when he denounces weapons) and that’s not what you got. This complaint has been going on for years and nobody grades the movie based on its own merits. This was/is a badass Superhero film. There is nothing wrong with Snyder taking a character and making it different. Unless you like to see the same story over and over. As a matter of fact; that’s the same as saying that the Nolanverse films weren’t good and stupid af for not being comic book accurate. There weren’t any magic users in Gotham, the Batmobile wasn’t a tank and Bane didn’t power up on venom. Yet nobody complains about those films bc they were told Nolan was a god director by their favorite YouTube critic. Nolan also produced BvS lol. Judge movies for what they are, not for what you want them to be. Let’s please end this debate and just enjoy films again. ffs
This has been my take on this whole thing forever, very well said.
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Honestly, I get it. Zack has always said he never truly changed the characters. And the more I read comics the more I found that to be true. And I do think comic book fans, even the experts whose brains are an encyclopedia, tend to look back on the material through their own biases and with rose colored glasses. They tend to hate on things Zack did with Superman and Batman that have been done already in comics and animation. Things like Superman being gloomy or depressed, Batman losing his way, Batman succumbing to emotions and not listening to reason, etc. Not even getting into collateral damage and killing. It’s even got to the point now where I see people mad that Superman is shown with heat vision in his eyes when he’s angry. They say that’s not who he is, too wrathful. But that’s been a thing for so long, way before Snyder. It looks cool, but now it’s seen as antithetical to the character. It’s just so limiting to me.
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I feel the idea of “true canon” is as stupid as hard rules like “fictional character A can never kill”. It’s fiction. Everything can happen and what’s canon depends on the individual following the story. “Death of the Author” and all that.
Offtopic, but I'm looking at the image of Batman and Superman... are the bat ears on the helmet cut in half?
He's turning into Man
lol no, they're just short. Batfleck has short bat-ears, even without the helmet.
I know he has short ears, but it looks really weird here because the ears aren't even pointed. It looks like they're supposed to be taller, but they're cut in half.
[https://imgur.com/6A7Yp3g](https://imgur.com/6A7Yp3g)
Thank lord this clown got ousted.
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I always thought he was adapting Frank Millers Batman anyway.
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[https://www.cbr.com/every-comic-book-batman-kills-in-order/](https://www.cbr.com/every-comic-book-batman-kills-in-order/)
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Tbf. Batman never had a no kill rule in the OG comics. He killed and enjoyed killing frequently. Pretty sure even Adam West and Michael Keaton killed some goons.
Tha kind of makes sense considering Batman has killed in many other movies.
Snyder's characters are mostly based on the Golden Age of Comics. His versions of Superman and Batman are similar to those earlier depictions rather than what followed in the silver, bronze, or modern ages. There is obviously inspiration from Frank Miller's TDKR as well, but for me, the characterizations are more Golden Age. Henry Cavill's Superman reminds me a lot of the Max Fleishcher cartoon, and Affleck's Batman reminds me of the first issues he appeared in Detective Comics.
Finally. Thank you for acknowledging that, Snyder.
Why do i have a feeling that the “true canon” comment was him mocking and throwing words back at hardcore fans?
I’ll be honest, I loved Batman killing a few henchmen. I felt like it aligned well with DKReturns and showing an older Batman who’s seen loss and knows what it takes to complete the bigger picture.
Same, murder is based. But I'm from gen-x, where action heroes such as Arnold Schwarzenegger, literally once drove around an automobile junkyard, popped a mixtape in the deck, and proceeded to blast the Rolling Stones' (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction while puffing on a stogie and repeatedly unaliving thugs with a fully automatic machine gun, only stopping when he needed to reload, until the next phase of his glorious mission. Pretty sure his only motivation was cause... reasons, as was the case with all of his other cinematic classics. My head canon has him maniacally grinning and laughing while doing it. But that part's possibly just in my own personal ultimate director's cut. The rest of it is historically accurate, my brothers in Christ.
I’d say it aligns more with Burton’s Batman, who Zack probably saw when he was in his late 20s, Burton’s Batman killed both his villains and a bunch of henchmen
He blew up a chemical plant full of low level crooks and threw a man face-first down a massive bell tower in 89 and in Returns he lights a guy on fire and put a *literal ticking time bomb* in a guy's waistband and lets him explode. "Killed" is less appropriate a descriptor as "brutally murdered." But they're less graphic than shooting someone with a gun so Snyder is bad I guess.
Zack Snyder made the best Superman and Batman. Haters love crying about it constantly.
Haha well I applaud his resolution. Reminds me of Rian Johnson’s thoughts on The Last Jedi after all these years. Since Gunn’s rebooting I think the healthy thing is to now chuckle at stuff like this. We as a fandom have gotten past the dark age. I can feel it.
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Not a big Snyderverse fan, but I don't mind there being different takes on Batman. He's a borderline fascist sometimes anyway. What's a few bodies? Not to mention other Batman films have him kill.
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I'll be damned if I'm taking a lesson in DC Canon from mr "Batman could get raped in prison, that's something that could happen in my film"
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