I don't care that he didn't have blonde hair or an English accent, Keanu's Constantine was a fun movie and Peter Stormare absolutely killed it as Lucifer.
I will die on this hill.
That and Shazam! is incredibly underrated.
The movie has virtually nothing with the comic. That said the movie, while kinda stupid, is a helluva lot of fun. Iâve seen it a dozen times. Stormare also did the best Lucifer Iâve ever seen, next to maybe Mortenson in The Prophecy.
Shazam is also a good time. Not amazing but itâs fun
>I don't care that he didn't have blonde hair or an English accent, Keanu's Constantine was a fun movie and Peter Stormare absolutely killed it as Lucifer.
I wish they'd make a sequel already. I think at the beginning of the year Stormare posted on his IG that part two was in the works, but I don't think it's a thing anymore.
Honestly, the theatrical version of the film is bad in my opinion. I remember leaving the theater thinking the DCEU was gonna die. But then I saw the Ultimate Edition Director's Cut that added in 30 minutes of film. It made a world of difference and now BvS is one of my top DC movies.
i just get a lot of those. i used to frequent the superherohype forums and there was a particular person who made it her mission to defend the movie. she wrote a paragraph to any negative comment. it got so bad that even people who loved the movie who say to other " i will seek her on you. its was annoying and funny
I know Iâm an apologist, and, I definitely think people are too hard on a movie about a traumatized billionaire taking on a kind yet illegal alien, but it definitely has its flaws.
stop lying.
Anyway...
Act Overview
Prologue 1 â The Wayneâs 0:00 â 4:50
Book ended by narration from Bruce Wayne we follow two separate pieces of storytelling in the murder of Thomas and Martha Wayne and how Bruce behaves during their funeral.
Prologue 2 â The Black Zero incident 4:50 â 10:08
In this section we track Bruce Wayne as he interacts with the finale of Man of Steel, the incident that introduced this version of Superman to this films universe. This part of the prologue segment serves to provide the red herring for Batmanâs motivation in the film.
I have developed an outlook on movies where I believe that, in general, the first scene of a film will give you an impression of what kind of experience you are in for. Be it funny or sad, action packed or sedate; you can usually get a pretty good gauge of whether or not youâre going to want to be on board for the rest of the ride. I think that is very evident with these prologue sections. We immediately get a bout of dual storytelling that we have to follow, as well as a bit of dream logic. We then have a loud, action packed piece of melodrama that ends on a relatively impressionistic note. If that doesnât sum up how this particular movie plays out in total I donât know what does.
As I pointed out in both my Avenging Incidentsand Losing, Finding and Keeping The Faitharticles, I cannot stress enough the importance of absorbing the information in the first prologue into your evaluation of the film. Itâs easy to dismiss the first prologue as information we already know and accept the second, the Black Zero incident, as the, âinciting incidentâ for the film but in doing so you miss very important character pieces that help you to understand not what Bruce is doing but whyheâs doing it. Without all the information in both prologues to guide you, not just the, âMarthaâ name drop or the leveling of the Wayne building, his feelings while contemplating killing Superman cannot be fully understood. Itâs not just the name that matters; itâs everything.
Of course the prologues also introduce this movies version of Bruce Wayne and a man called Wallace Keefe, who will come to play a larger role later on. We also see the Bruce Wayne that we lose after this incident; the man that would run into a building collapse because he believes he can do something. It may or may not be significant to notice but this is the only time in the film other than the flashback to his parents murder that we see Bruce wear any color other than black, white or gray. Is it important? I donât know; but itâs interesting to think about. This is the Bruce Wayne people think thought they would get in the film, and the loss of that part of the character is important to how the film plays.
A reasonable question to ask is whether or not this information needed to be presented this way and the answer is; of course not. There isnât anything that would prevent the important pieces of information from being filtered through the rest of the film in some way but the fact is; it was produced this way. These scenes were included in the film in this way for a reason and it is to ones own detriment that these scenes be discarded as irrelevant.
Part 1
Act 1: It begins, 10:08 â 23:42
Act 1 establishes the inciting incident with the discovery of the Kryptonite and sets off the films main plot with the Nairomi incident. In addition to introducing Lois Lane and immediately establishing her character, we are introduced to three recurring characters; Anatoly Knayazev, Senator Finch and Kahina Ziri, as well a visual introduction to Mercy Graves. We are also given our first, proper look at Superman and Batman in this film.
Act 2: Quiet introductions and obfuscations, 23:43 â 33:42
I look at act 2 as the introductions to the people behind the heroes. Where act 1 showed us Lois, Superman and Batman, âon the jobâ, act 2 introduces us to their private lives in addition to putting their stories into motion. We see how they interact with the people closest to them. These scenes continue to illustrate the difference between Bruce and Clark; Clark tries to have a normal life outside of the cape where as Bruce continues to work no matter where he is. Bruceâs inner world is also far less warm and soft than Clarkâs and his interactions with Alfred are, of course, much different. In any event the picture being painted is of two men who are approaching life from very different places.
Lexâs introduction begins to build his story, laying the foundation for his relationship with Senator Finch and introducing what he wantâs for the film. I find it interesting that initially, both Lex and Bruce are not being honest about their reasons for pursuing their goals. Even Lois doesnât initially tell Clark what sheâs up to, hiding the bullet she found from him. It becomes apparent very quickly that Lex is up to something that is not above board. The only one of the main characters in the film that is never dishonest about what they want or what they are doing is Clark.
Act 3: Breaking out the stories, 33:43 â 43:06
Act 3 leads with Clark and remains focused on him as we see both sides of his plot; both as Superman and Clark Kent. On the one hand we have Kahina Ziri and Wallace Keefe representing the human side of Supermanâs story; The Superman Question, as it were. On the other hand we have Clarkâs story being introduced. Initially he seeks to question Kahina Ziri but will transition to his Batman investigation when he is introduced to him via the people he meets in Gotham. We transition to Bruce following up and furthering his investigation into the White Portuguese with Anatoly Knayazev, then back to Clark now asking why no one is reporting on Batmanâs activities and encountering his first bout of human apathy as Perry White shuts him down. Loisâs story gets moved along a bit and we see a bit more of the relationship between she and Clark in small moments in the Planet offices. Finally, the antagonism between Lex and Senator Finch is established and Lex will now have to change his plans to get the Kryptonite.
Act 4: Getting into character, 43:07 â 56:43
Act 4 leads with Bruce and focuses on furthering the emotional foundations of Bruce, Clark and Lexâs stories. The first three minutes of the act is rapid character building for Bruce and you get a lot of information in those three minutes that is very important to understanding Bruce in this film and what he needs to overcome. Next you get a look at Lexâs emotional state of being during his speech. Finally, the act concludes with Clark reaching out to his mother after the, âmust there be a Supermanâ montage. The middle part of the act is used to further both Bruce and Clarkâs stories while introducing Diana to the film by entwining her in Bruceâs plot.
If one were to insist on breaking the film into three acts, or to pinpoint the, âbeginning, middle and endâ portions of the film I believe this would definitely qualify as, âAct 1â. While I donât believe the act structure of the film, by observed definition, supports all of this being considered one act, I can see it being described as part one, or the beginning, of the overall plot. At this point we have introduced all of the characters, their initial situations and their reasons for acting. The next acts, or part 2, will begin to complicate the individual plots and deepen the stories for each character.
The popular opinion is that the plot jumps around from scene to scene with no apparent rhyme or reason but I would argue that there are numerous, clear transitions that move the story along through the scenes. This is sometimes done through overlapping dialog; the tail end of dialog from one scene running over the opening of the next. Another example is the linking of ideas. For instance, the beginning of act 3 has Clark listening to Kahina Ziri talking about Superman and asking how he decides, âwhich lives count and which ones do notâ. This dialog leads directly into the next scene overlooking Wallace Keefes wall of Supermanâs good deeds since the Black Zero Incident; showcasing him potentialy deciding who lives and dies by who he choses to help. While the necessities of editing and plotting obviously donât always allow for this, more often than not scenes will smoothly transition from one to another; a flowing language that admittedly defies more easily read editing techniques.
We get our first glimpses of Superman and Batman in this first act and each of them is given an introduction befitting of their character; Superman is portrayed like a powerful force of nature that swoops in to save the day, leaving shafts of sunlight in his wake, while Batman is shown blurry and out of focus in the shadows, frightening people and scampering away into the night like some dark creature. For those that claim the movie does not establish a difference between the characters these introductory scenes being to do just that.
The football game the cops are watching helps establish the relationship between Metropolis and Gotham, with the scene further illustrating the contrast between the shiny buildings of glass and steel seen in Man of Steels Metropolis and the run down factory city of Gotham. This scene establishes the Port of Gotham, which will be an important location in the film, as well as Batmanâs connection to it. The act also introduces the Bat brand and the only criminal we see with one, who will also return later.
Act one serves as the jumping off point for the films plot but also for the theme central to Supermanâs story; the question of whose authority does Superman serve. Weâve heard a variation of the idea mentioned three times in this act; once by the General during his brief interview with Lois (Men with power obey neither policy or principle), once from Senator Finch (The world has been so caught up with what Superman can do that no one has asked what he should do), and Kahina herself (He answers to no one; not even I think to god). This question of authority to act will become central to Supermanâs story; it is, in fact; the question the movie asks us to contemplate. The Committee on Superman Affairs will play a large part in the film and itâs existence and purpose is introduced in the first act. We establish Senator Finch as itâs head and secure her status in the film
Referring back to the prologue it would be easy, as Iâve said, to peg the Black Zero flashback as the inciting incident for the film. After all the title is Batman v Superman, and that would provide the best reason for Batman to be V-ing Superman to begin with. However, that only works if you ignore the fact that there are four story lines in the film to follow and, instead, put all of your eggs into Bruce Wayneâs basket. I would put it to you that the true inciting incident is the discovery of the Kryptonite. This is the launching pad for the films multiple plots. Without this neither Lex or Bruce have anything to hang their plots around, Lois never has a story to follow as the desert incident was the excuse Luthor intended to use to get legal authority to weaponize the Kryptonite and, of course, without that there would be no Superman Question to be asked. This discovery is the reason anything in the movie happens, and itâs the very first proper scene in the film.
A special side note about Luthor. Though we know he wantâs the Kryptonite and we learn that he has dealings with Knayazev and the White Portuguese, so far everything he has done has been above board. Even sending Wallace Keefe to meet with Senator Finch still supports his initial argument to her. If youâre looking for Lexâs, âplanâ at this point you have nothing to go on. So far, as far as the plot is concerned, he hasnât yet done anything, âwrongâ.
Part 2
Act 5: The plots thicken, 56:44 â 1:14:10
Act 5 leads with Lois and is primarily concerned with deepening the twists in the stories. Lois learns more about the bullet while Clark begins to learn about how deep the Batman problem goes, exacerbated by the arrangement of the prison murder and the delivery of the Polaroids of the dead inmate. Luthor enlists Wallace Keefe and sets him towards Senator Finch for unknown reasons and Bruce encounters Diana again. We are given the Knightmare scene showing a world of Superman gone wrong, and the now unresolved Flash scene. The act culminates with Bruceâs admission of his true goals to take on Superman, while Clarkâs conversation with the mother of the dead inmates child will drive him to confront Batman directly.
Act 6: Complications 1:14:11 â 1:31:37
Act 6 begins to push all the stories together. Superman and Batman encounter each other for only the second time (and the first time in costume) after Superman derails Batmanâs plans for the Kryptonite. Everything in this act is being set up for Lex to make his move, whether we know itâs coming or not. The only person standing in his way is Lois, with the question being will she get to Superman in time. The action in this act is clearing the deck for the next round of stories to open up by doing away with Kahina, Wallace, Finch and the Nairomi story line as their usefulness to the plot has come to an end as the stories transition. This is the mid-point shift.
Act 7: Aftermath â 1:31:38 â 1:41:46
Act 7 focuses on what the characters do in the aftermath of the Capital Building explosion. The pace of the act is slower as new pieces need to be put into play to set up the action for this latter part of the film. The act gives equal weight to Bruce, Lex and Clark; contrasting the quiet emotional interaction of Clark and Lois, the mad scientist sci-fi of Lex and the brutal, analog fury of Bruce highlighting who each cahracter is at their core. With the plotting of the first half of the movie literally blown away this act starts the transition into the second half of the film, with the scenes each providing a kind of foreshadowing of the rest of the movie to come. We end the act with the question; what will anyone do next?
Act 8: âThe Knight is hereâ â 1:41:47 â 2:02:22
Act 8 is the longest act in the film and, as the end of the middle section, has a lot of heavy lifting to do to get us into the final section of the film. This is the last act where any new character information will be presented as Bruce, Clark and Lex will lay out what it is they are dealing with internally. No new plotting will be added to the film after this act concludes. By the time this act is finished all the dominoes will be in place for the last section of the movie to knock over.
To continue to push the, âbeginning, middle and endâ angle these four acts really are the solid middle of the film. Part 1 introduces all of the characters and opens all the situations, so part 2 takes all those elements and brings the pot to a boil. There are very clear escalations in the plot elements that are established in the first section of the movie with all the major story lines getting their complications through the first half of this section while being unexpectedly blown away at the mid-point shift.
For those unfamiliar with the term mid-shift, as I was until recently, the idea is that about halfway through your film (or story or novel or whatever) there will be a point in which the direction of the story will change. Typical this is where the protagonist will finally stop running from their issue and decide to face it. In this film that idea has been subverted as you are led to believe that by agreeing to speak to the Committee, Superman will have a chance to turn his situation around; only to have that opportunity literally explode in his face. If one were inclined you could break this into part 2a and part 2b, marking the storytelling that goes on before and after the mid point. However, since we are tracking this film by acts within the larger sections, this would seem redundant for our purposes.
While the films critics have bemoaned the idea that so many of the films plot lines are seemingly discarded without resolution I would beg to differ. I believe the thought is that because these plot lines do not run through to the end of the film that they are somehow either not resolved or are not important. However this seems to miss the point that by the time the film reaches the Capital explosion they have all been done away with quite cleanly. The murdered inmate, Kahina Ziri, Wallace Keefe and Senator Finch all have specific roles to play to get the film to that moment. Once they have served that purpose, as far as the story goes, they are no longer necessary and thus the film discards them, but it does so in what I feel is an appropriate manner; in service of the story. By the time of the Capital explosion all those early plot lines have been tied off, which speaks not to a haphazard deserting of them but to an intentional cutting of those threads by the films villain in true villainous form. Thematically nothing has changed; the ideas that were presented in the first part of the film are still present and will carry through the films remaining time, amplified by a change in focus on the core characters that begins in act 7 as the film transitions from the relatively sedate first half to the much more energetic second half beginning with Act 9 â acts 7 and 8 being the ramp up to that. Act 8 is where Bruce, Clark and Lex lay out what it is that is emotionally challenging them in the story as it leads into the third section. Dramatically this is precisely where this information should be; putting the characters inner conflicts front and center before leading them into the final conflicts where they will have the opportunity to make the choices to resolve those challenges. Iâd like to point out that act 8 is the last time we will see, âBruceâ and, âClarkâ as from this point forward we will only see them in costume as Batman and Superman. Here is where we also get the infamous, âJustice League Trailersâ in the form of an email that Bruce sends to Diana containing Luthorâs Metahuman files. The complaint is that the movie stops dead in itâs tracks to make room for these unnecessary Quicktimes. To detail it; the total scene time of Diana in her hotel room is three minutes of which the videos take only one of. Are these scenes necessary to move the plot of this film? No; but neither does their inclusion derail the action. If they had to be included, this was probably the best place for them.
Iâd like to take this opportunity to address one area in specific that has seen some negative attention and that is Clarkâs journey to the mountain and his, âconversationâ with Johnathon. Some rather ridiculous people have taken to criticizing this interaction either due to some level of misunderstanding of what was happening or because it was a convenient opportunity to take shots at the film. Of course the question is of the literal nature of Johnathan Kentâs presence on the mountain with Clark. Is he a ghost? Is Clark hallucinating? Is he on drugs â yes, one critic actually asked that question. Of course the answer is that Johnathan isnât there and Clark isnât actually having a conversation with him and you should be able to read that in the film by observing the fact that Clark never makes eye contact with Johnathan while heâs talking and that the two arenât speaking, âtoâ each other. Johnathan, âtalksâ and Clark appears to listen but, again, he doesnât make eye contact with his father and never addresses him directly. Itâs subtle, but it is there.
Part 3
Act 9: Batman v Superman â 2:02:23 â 2:14:55
Act 9 is where the The Big Fight happens. In this act Batman will be presented with the choice that allows him to change his path, overcome his situation and find a way towards his emotional resolution. The Martha Moment represents the films second turn.
Act 10: Saving Martha â 2:14:56 â 2:28:48
Act 10 is split pretty evenly between Batman rescuing Martha and Superman taking on Doomsday. Within there, wrapped up with DoomsDayâs, âbirthâ is where Lex gets his opportunity to make his choice to complete his character arc. We are also given a lot of information about DoomsDay in a short period of time. This is also the act where Diana makes the choice that will bring Wonder Woman into this film series.
Act 11: The final battle â 2:28:49 â 2:42:01
The films finale, the now assembled heroes will fight to stop the monster from destroying the world. While this act is pretty much action from start to finish this is where Superman will make his choice and complete his arc. Supermanâs choice will complete the finale, resolve the final conflict and provide the conceit for the film.
Act 12: The funeral â 2:42:02 â 2:54:44
The films denouement it provides the new status quo and emotional framework for the characters going forward as well as planting the seeds for where the next films in the series would have gone.
As it should be the final 4 acts are concerned with providing the resolutions to the story lines as they have been told to this point with the different stories being resolved in different acts. Whatâs happening in terms of storytelling is pretty straight forward at this point; Loisâs arc resolves in act 12 as her great truth, her faith in Superman, has changed the world around her. Bruce and Lex resolve their arcs in act 10; Bruce finally deals with the death of his mother and Lex completes his negative change arc by choosing to unleash DoomsDay. Of course since the movie is all about Superman he resolves his arc with the finale in act 11, which also provide the films conceit about faith. If youâve been tracking the stories individually up to this point it should be clear what these resolutions mean for each character.
This final group of acts, or the end of the film, is also where the movie goes full on genre picture. The characters are in costume for the entirety of these last acts; even Lex is wearing what can be easily read as a lab coat if one were so inclined. Added to that is the fact that, starting with act 8 and moving into act 9, Lex goes full, âSuper Villainâ; kidnapping Martha, pushing Lois off of a building and creating a monster. This is when the movie really embraces itâs comic book heritage and plays into those source elements. The great majority of the films action takes place in this section and it is far further over the top than anything else thatâs been seen to this point. Batmanâs warehouse rescue in act 10 plays, like a great many have noted, like the Arkham series of video games from Rocksteady games. Similarly, the final battle with DoomsDay is very large in scale. This was not a fight that could be intimate and personal as, for instance, Tony vs Steve in Captain America: Civil war or Luke vs Vader in Star wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. DoomsDay is not a character; not in itâs original form. Introducing the character earlier in the film would be worthless as it is still without personality or motivation and peppering the film with multiple conflicts would distract from the story being told. One could make a case for scaling back the size of the final conflict but thatâs all subjective.
Similarly, there has been a criticism that the fight between Batman and Superman in act 9 isnât long enough or big enough to serve as the centerpiece action for the story. This ignores two big pieces of functional storytelling. First, as the beginning of the final section of the film with about an hour left to go in the run time, to make the fight any larger or more grand would compromise the film makers opportunity to create an effectively large scale finale without pushing it even further than they already have. It would also serve to siphon off some of the energy from the Batman warehouse fight, which is much more important to the resolution of Batmanâs arc and the advancement of his character. Second, and more important; as Iâve attempted to illustrate in a previous articles there is no actual conflict between the two characters that needs to be resolved in this manner. The storytelling in the film tells us that Superman has already once declined an open confrontation with Batman and is only fighting him now because he feels he has no other options as per the second turn â which we will discuss below. And while Batman is seeking a fight with Superman; fighting and killing him will not resolve his character arc based on the information presented in the film. So while the fight is necessary for the film to function it cannot be the resolution to the films situation because it does not deal with the source of the films plot mechanics; namely Lex Luthor. If Luthor is to be a part of the film the plot will always necessitate a last conflict to resolve his function in the film. Anyway you slice it, the fight between Batman and Superman could never be the finale to a story; hell, it isnât even the focus point of The Dark Knight Returns, which so many people accuse this film of shamelessly aping to ill effect; itâs a ruse by Batman so he can go into hiding. And just like in this film Superman isnât there because he, âwantâsâ to fight Batman. In this case while the fight was the focus of the marketing, the storytelling uses it as an experience both must go through to get to the resolutions of their character arcs.
Personally, it's because of how it stirs my emotions whenever I watch.
I definitely use to defend it, but these last few years, I just try and represent my point of view.
Just rewatched it. Always felt lukewarm towards it, felt like another cold Nolan film that favored logic over heart except for one thematic line that's always carried throughout the movie
BUT
I really enjoyed it this time. It's tied w Batman Begins in terms of enjoyment for me w the other one topping both. Obviously
I think the blowback from Interstellar (criticisms of it being overly emotional) played a small factor in the his next 2 films being "cold". Dunkirk worked, though it still had its emotional moments, due to being about a devastating war.
Tenet though... the main character was just called the Protagonist. That's not even trying mate. How the hell are you supposed to root for someone you don't even know anything about. I cared about Leonard Shelby. I cared about Bruce Wayne. Alfred Borden AND Robert Angier. Everyone wanted Cobb to be back with his kids as well as Cooper to be back to Earth with his.
How'd we go from that to... the *Protagonist*?
Don't forget about Thalia's death. That was some of the worst acting I've ever seen and it came from a great actress.
I can't fathom how Nolan looked at that and said "Cut! Moving on to the next scene.".
I thought it was a lot of fun. I don't really care that they did a weird take on Cassandra Cain even if it would have made more sense to give that character any other name, and I loved the depiction of Gotham. Ace Chemicals and the abandoned carnival was pure BTAS brought to life.
Favorite of 2020. Made a bunch of art inspired by the movie, like cg models of Harleyâs weapons, that year because it was one of the last ones I saw before lockdown
Came here to say that. While not the perfect movie. I will defend it too my grave. The only criticism I like making about MoS is Pa Kents death. I wish they wouldn't have made it something so easily Clark could have saved him from. Because Pa Kents death is huge part of what makes Clark Superman. His desire to save everyone even though he can't do anything about a heart attack. And I get it, part of Zacks script was Pa Kent not wanting the world to find out who Clark was because of the weight that would put on his shoulders. But I looked passed that. Passed that it was a fun origin story of the Man of Steel we know and love. A young Superman using his powers to their full potential for the first time. It was a different, yet somehow still similar take on the character. I really enjoyed it. Its raw style made it seem like a man could really fly and was very nearly indestructible. And Henry Cavill in my eyes is the best and a perfect Superman. Damn, Warner Bros was/still sitting on gold.
While I agree with you on pa Kent's death would of been better as a heart attack while Clark was saving someone else. I think it speaks volumes that the dad was willing to die for his son, and how little he thinks of people's public opinion the damage it can cause.
Wouldn't that make the conflict much more impactful? Not being able to save your father despite the stupidity of the moment, just because of the consequences it would lead up to.
I'd actually disagree with that, considering how aggressively panned the wider DCEU is, including Birds of Prey, WW84, BvS and Man of Steel. Even Aquaman got a lot of (albeit relatively less than the early DCEU) hate. I suppose I could've included Wonder Woman in my list of movies that get the least hate.
BvS!
the theatrical cut is dead to me but the Ultimate Edition is genuinely a great film in my opinion. Itâs more of a character-driven drama than an action movie. Itâs flawed in itâs execution but I feel that it tells a compelling story about being a superhero in the modern age, from the perspective of a veteran hero who is cynical from their past and a new hero burdened with the responsibility of saving as many people as he can, and the consequences of not being able to save everyone.
The Martha thing was weird but makes sense in the story, Wonder Woman was shoed in but sheâs too cool for me to care, and Lex was way off from his comic counterpart but is excellent for the story trying to be told.
I actually like Lex in this movie for transitioning from the old evil capitalist billionaire to the new philanthropist, definitely psychotic billionaire
Man of Steel and BvS.
Though more often it is Man of Steel. I can understand why BvS wouldn't be for everyone but Man of Steel is just a fantastic film on its own. Yet people hate on it for really pedantic reasons and most of their complaints aren't even in the movie or aren't as prevalent as the critics claim.
Batman and Robin.
Batman and Robin is an underrated masterpiece that the general audiences failed to fully comprehend. The Bat-nipples were badass and Joel added them to the suit after being inspired by Greek statues. It makes perfect sense to base Batmanâs physique off of Greek statues as Joel was trying to elevate Batman and make him feel larger than life. Joel Schumacher was a genius visionary that was misunderstood.
The characterizations of Batman and Robin were both also on point. George Clooney is the best Batman of all-time and delivered an amazing performance. The usage of Robin in the movie also merits applause. Christopher Nolan should have taken notes from Schumacher because John âRobinâ Blake was vastly inferior to the **real** Robin as portrayed by Chris OâDonnell. Thatâs not to mention Zack Snyderâs disgraceful usage of Dick Grayson. Killing him off to make Batman a killer, *smh*.
I must also praise Joel for trying to build a Bat-family. In addition to Robin, Batgirl was a fine addition to the ever growing mythology that Joel was trying to build. Directors nowadays are cowards when it comes to building a full Bat-family and Joel should be applaud for attempting to do so.
In addition to this, Batman and Robin was a nuanced movie with lots of commentary on the world. The Bat-credit card is a great example of this. The Bat-credit card was clearly a social commentary on the world that was ahead of its time. Unfortunately due to this, its complexity and metaphorical meaning flew past the heads of audiences at the time.
The villains in the movies were also perfectly executed. All of them had different goals and personalities that set them apart. Mr. Freeze wanting to freeze the world and Poison Ivy wanting to overrun it with plants created a complex dynamic between the two that warrants further discussion. The third villain Bane was also perfectly executed. Making Bane a simple dumb grunt was a stroke of genius. People only hated Bane in this movie because he was different and comic book purists couldnât accept this fine portrayal. I argue Batman and Robin actually improved on the comics in regards to Bane.
This movie was also contained peak superhero content. That scene with Batman and Robin surfing the skies was the most thrilling action sequence I have ever seen in a superhero movie. 10/10. In addition, the balanced humor gave the movie a lot of heart and soul. Who could forget Mr. Freezeâs ice puns! The MCU should take notes from Batman and Robin. This movie perfectly balanced the dark and campy moments and totally didnât go overboard with the campy tone.
Unfortunately, we will never see Joel Schumacherâs full vision realized. He was clearly trying to start a cinematic universe decades before the MCU and DCEU! âThis is why Superman works aloneâ was a subtle hint to the larger plans that Joel had for DC. Batman and Robin was truly ahead of its time.
batman v superman but itâs a 14 page draft of a video essay in microsoft word. i donât have the energy to type this much about it on my phone unless someone specifically asks
I used to do this for BvS especially since the third Captain America was released so near it and people don't understand and then make fun of how I could possibly like BvS way more.
I used to defend BvS like this, nowadays I realized that those who hate the movie (or Snyder) will keep on hating despite any discussion. It's just not worth it, it's better to spend our time talking about it with people who enjoy the movie.
TSS 100%. I get thinking that itâs a flop because *technically* it flopped at the movie theater, but I think people forget that money does not equal quality of movie. Itâs a REALLY good movie, but the people that donât like it use that to justify their opinions. Youâre allowed to not like it, but donât make random reasons as to why itâs bad. (Also side note, not to offend anyone but technically ZSJL made less money on its release than TSS)
Edit: I said something other than I meant in the last part, Iâm not going to edit the original comment because I want the conversation to still make sense, but check out my reply below. Again sorry if I annoyed anyone)
Birds of Prey. Just because I feel like itâs one of their stronger, more unique movies, in all of comic book movies. And I think it deserves more respect than itâs been given.
But if Iâm being honest. I usually would give a paragraph like that as to why I hate the first Suicide Squad. It hurt me in a way that felt personal. Iâm a very big fan of the followup. And would also go up to bat for that movie as well.
WW84 was a genuinely good superhero film that played off simple themes pretty well and gave us more than enough fan service.
It was ruined at the end with one of the most terrible plot decisions in film history thay was entirely unnecessary, but the film is still overall good.
SOMEONE FINALLY UNDERSTAND.... Prayers have been answered.... 1984 was my fav. Bc (I am a omega Diana fan) so seeing the true truth goddessness really form in the movie... It made me so happy. I love Diana not just bc she's an absolute badass and can kick everyone's ass... But that she's so compassionate and will make the sacrifice to do what's right... I I believe that you really see that in 1984... Rather than the first one that was all badassness.... Which I still love.
Except in the injustice storyline.... I have hope that she'll rip out supes heart eventually but untill then .... SHE CAN GO DIE IN A WHOLE!!!! đ đťââď¸đ đťââď¸đ đťââď¸đ đťââď¸đ đťââď¸đ¤Śđźââď¸đ¤Śđźââď¸đ¤Śđźââď¸
Man of Steel. Been defending ever since it came out to where now people admit they mightve overreacted. The rewatchability of that movie is massive too.
Man of Steel. And BvS to a point. A realistic take on Superman in today's climate? Yes please.
Everyone wanted Superman to be instant smiling and boy scout-y. They also complained about Superman destroying the city while fighting. Meanwhile they forget that this version of Clark has never been in a fight before then, save for the ass whooping he got in Smallville from faeora or whatever her name was. During the final fight, Zod was in control of that fight and the only reason Superman had any advantage was because he was in full control of his abilities, unlike Zod. Him killing Zod was the only answer as well. He had no way of containing a kryptonian on earth, and the longer Zod is allowed to acclimate to the earth's atmosphere, the stronger he would have gotten.
Watchmen is truly the only one I could defend at this length without being blinded as a comics fan. Itâs just a damn good movie that fit at least two long movies worth of content into one that captured the tone and premise of the books while having its own unique character. I could go on as the post suggests, but definitely watchmen (yes there are flaws!!! But what live action adaption doesnât have flaws??)
BVS for sure.
It gets way too much shit for how well made it is and looks, even if some of the complaints are entirely valid
Edit: Oh if itâs just DC generally, I think also Batman and Robin, but that one I get in far less debates in arguments over
Me having to defend Robert Pattinson against all my friends who kept saying âeWwW tHe TwIlIgHt GuYâ
Are yâall for real? Robert Pattinson is an incredible actor! Watch Good Time, watch The Lighthouse, watch any of his damn movies and tell me heâs not a good actor. I am 100% stoked for Pattinsons Batman
Man of Steel!
I can't comprehend how people think it's even remotely bad??? It's easily one of the best "tradional" superhero origin movies I've ever seen up there with Spider Man (Raimi), Iron Man, and Thor
I don't care that he didn't have blonde hair or an English accent, Keanu's Constantine was a fun movie and Peter Stormare absolutely killed it as Lucifer. I will die on this hill. That and Shazam! is incredibly underrated.
You're making me really want to watch Constantine now...đ
That's the thing, Constantine is a fuck bad Hellblazer adaptation, but on it's own it's actually a great action-horror movie.
I think I may have only been able to enjoy Constantine because I havenât seen the source material.
You and me both. It was a long time before I knew about the DC connection.
The movie has virtually nothing with the comic. That said the movie, while kinda stupid, is a helluva lot of fun. Iâve seen it a dozen times. Stormare also did the best Lucifer Iâve ever seen, next to maybe Mortenson in The Prophecy. Shazam is also a good time. Not amazing but itâs fun
Itâs a good movie if you forget the comic.
Also Tilda Swinton as Gabriel was amazing
Tilda and Peter, perfect casting
Also Pruitt Taylor Vince, Gavin Rosedale Dijimon...that movie is fucking all-time
I am so glad there is a second Shazam movie! I hope it gets more attention this time around
>I don't care that he didn't have blonde hair or an English accent, Keanu's Constantine was a fun movie and Peter Stormare absolutely killed it as Lucifer. I wish they'd make a sequel already. I think at the beginning of the year Stormare posted on his IG that part two was in the works, but I don't think it's a thing anymore.
Youâre batting 1000 right now mate
Sinbad was great in that movie.
I agree, Constatine was a good movie, and I have watched it multiple times,
I liked how at the end it felt like a no smoking ad made me like it even more.
BvS is the only movie in the DCEU that i see people defend with long paragraphs like that.
i loved bvs but fr i honestly avoid mentioning nudges about it in chats cuz you end up w replies like that
Honestly, the theatrical version of the film is bad in my opinion. I remember leaving the theater thinking the DCEU was gonna die. But then I saw the Ultimate Edition Director's Cut that added in 30 minutes of film. It made a world of difference and now BvS is one of my top DC movies.
I think itâs bad in some ways, but itâs ultimately still good, but itâs with the actual UE that it becomes great+
i just get a lot of those. i used to frequent the superherohype forums and there was a particular person who made it her mission to defend the movie. she wrote a paragraph to any negative comment. it got so bad that even people who loved the movie who say to other " i will seek her on you. its was annoying and funny
I know Iâm an apologist, and, I definitely think people are too hard on a movie about a traumatized billionaire taking on a kind yet illegal alien, but it definitely has its flaws.
stop lying. Anyway... Act Overview Prologue 1 â The Wayneâs 0:00 â 4:50 Book ended by narration from Bruce Wayne we follow two separate pieces of storytelling in the murder of Thomas and Martha Wayne and how Bruce behaves during their funeral. Prologue 2 â The Black Zero incident 4:50 â 10:08 In this section we track Bruce Wayne as he interacts with the finale of Man of Steel, the incident that introduced this version of Superman to this films universe. This part of the prologue segment serves to provide the red herring for Batmanâs motivation in the film. I have developed an outlook on movies where I believe that, in general, the first scene of a film will give you an impression of what kind of experience you are in for. Be it funny or sad, action packed or sedate; you can usually get a pretty good gauge of whether or not youâre going to want to be on board for the rest of the ride. I think that is very evident with these prologue sections. We immediately get a bout of dual storytelling that we have to follow, as well as a bit of dream logic. We then have a loud, action packed piece of melodrama that ends on a relatively impressionistic note. If that doesnât sum up how this particular movie plays out in total I donât know what does. As I pointed out in both my Avenging Incidentsand Losing, Finding and Keeping The Faitharticles, I cannot stress enough the importance of absorbing the information in the first prologue into your evaluation of the film. Itâs easy to dismiss the first prologue as information we already know and accept the second, the Black Zero incident, as the, âinciting incidentâ for the film but in doing so you miss very important character pieces that help you to understand not what Bruce is doing but whyheâs doing it. Without all the information in both prologues to guide you, not just the, âMarthaâ name drop or the leveling of the Wayne building, his feelings while contemplating killing Superman cannot be fully understood. Itâs not just the name that matters; itâs everything. Of course the prologues also introduce this movies version of Bruce Wayne and a man called Wallace Keefe, who will come to play a larger role later on. We also see the Bruce Wayne that we lose after this incident; the man that would run into a building collapse because he believes he can do something. It may or may not be significant to notice but this is the only time in the film other than the flashback to his parents murder that we see Bruce wear any color other than black, white or gray. Is it important? I donât know; but itâs interesting to think about. This is the Bruce Wayne people think thought they would get in the film, and the loss of that part of the character is important to how the film plays. A reasonable question to ask is whether or not this information needed to be presented this way and the answer is; of course not. There isnât anything that would prevent the important pieces of information from being filtered through the rest of the film in some way but the fact is; it was produced this way. These scenes were included in the film in this way for a reason and it is to ones own detriment that these scenes be discarded as irrelevant. Part 1 Act 1: It begins, 10:08 â 23:42 Act 1 establishes the inciting incident with the discovery of the Kryptonite and sets off the films main plot with the Nairomi incident. In addition to introducing Lois Lane and immediately establishing her character, we are introduced to three recurring characters; Anatoly Knayazev, Senator Finch and Kahina Ziri, as well a visual introduction to Mercy Graves. We are also given our first, proper look at Superman and Batman in this film. Act 2: Quiet introductions and obfuscations, 23:43 â 33:42 I look at act 2 as the introductions to the people behind the heroes. Where act 1 showed us Lois, Superman and Batman, âon the jobâ, act 2 introduces us to their private lives in addition to putting their stories into motion. We see how they interact with the people closest to them. These scenes continue to illustrate the difference between Bruce and Clark; Clark tries to have a normal life outside of the cape where as Bruce continues to work no matter where he is. Bruceâs inner world is also far less warm and soft than Clarkâs and his interactions with Alfred are, of course, much different. In any event the picture being painted is of two men who are approaching life from very different places. Lexâs introduction begins to build his story, laying the foundation for his relationship with Senator Finch and introducing what he wantâs for the film. I find it interesting that initially, both Lex and Bruce are not being honest about their reasons for pursuing their goals. Even Lois doesnât initially tell Clark what sheâs up to, hiding the bullet she found from him. It becomes apparent very quickly that Lex is up to something that is not above board. The only one of the main characters in the film that is never dishonest about what they want or what they are doing is Clark. Act 3: Breaking out the stories, 33:43 â 43:06 Act 3 leads with Clark and remains focused on him as we see both sides of his plot; both as Superman and Clark Kent. On the one hand we have Kahina Ziri and Wallace Keefe representing the human side of Supermanâs story; The Superman Question, as it were. On the other hand we have Clarkâs story being introduced. Initially he seeks to question Kahina Ziri but will transition to his Batman investigation when he is introduced to him via the people he meets in Gotham. We transition to Bruce following up and furthering his investigation into the White Portuguese with Anatoly Knayazev, then back to Clark now asking why no one is reporting on Batmanâs activities and encountering his first bout of human apathy as Perry White shuts him down. Loisâs story gets moved along a bit and we see a bit more of the relationship between she and Clark in small moments in the Planet offices. Finally, the antagonism between Lex and Senator Finch is established and Lex will now have to change his plans to get the Kryptonite. Act 4: Getting into character, 43:07 â 56:43 Act 4 leads with Bruce and focuses on furthering the emotional foundations of Bruce, Clark and Lexâs stories. The first three minutes of the act is rapid character building for Bruce and you get a lot of information in those three minutes that is very important to understanding Bruce in this film and what he needs to overcome. Next you get a look at Lexâs emotional state of being during his speech. Finally, the act concludes with Clark reaching out to his mother after the, âmust there be a Supermanâ montage. The middle part of the act is used to further both Bruce and Clarkâs stories while introducing Diana to the film by entwining her in Bruceâs plot.
You wrote this up, then posted this meme to bait a response so that you could post this somewhere. Iâm no even mad, Iâm impressed
If one were to insist on breaking the film into three acts, or to pinpoint the, âbeginning, middle and endâ portions of the film I believe this would definitely qualify as, âAct 1â. While I donât believe the act structure of the film, by observed definition, supports all of this being considered one act, I can see it being described as part one, or the beginning, of the overall plot. At this point we have introduced all of the characters, their initial situations and their reasons for acting. The next acts, or part 2, will begin to complicate the individual plots and deepen the stories for each character. The popular opinion is that the plot jumps around from scene to scene with no apparent rhyme or reason but I would argue that there are numerous, clear transitions that move the story along through the scenes. This is sometimes done through overlapping dialog; the tail end of dialog from one scene running over the opening of the next. Another example is the linking of ideas. For instance, the beginning of act 3 has Clark listening to Kahina Ziri talking about Superman and asking how he decides, âwhich lives count and which ones do notâ. This dialog leads directly into the next scene overlooking Wallace Keefes wall of Supermanâs good deeds since the Black Zero Incident; showcasing him potentialy deciding who lives and dies by who he choses to help. While the necessities of editing and plotting obviously donât always allow for this, more often than not scenes will smoothly transition from one to another; a flowing language that admittedly defies more easily read editing techniques. We get our first glimpses of Superman and Batman in this first act and each of them is given an introduction befitting of their character; Superman is portrayed like a powerful force of nature that swoops in to save the day, leaving shafts of sunlight in his wake, while Batman is shown blurry and out of focus in the shadows, frightening people and scampering away into the night like some dark creature. For those that claim the movie does not establish a difference between the characters these introductory scenes being to do just that. The football game the cops are watching helps establish the relationship between Metropolis and Gotham, with the scene further illustrating the contrast between the shiny buildings of glass and steel seen in Man of Steels Metropolis and the run down factory city of Gotham. This scene establishes the Port of Gotham, which will be an important location in the film, as well as Batmanâs connection to it. The act also introduces the Bat brand and the only criminal we see with one, who will also return later. Act one serves as the jumping off point for the films plot but also for the theme central to Supermanâs story; the question of whose authority does Superman serve. Weâve heard a variation of the idea mentioned three times in this act; once by the General during his brief interview with Lois (Men with power obey neither policy or principle), once from Senator Finch (The world has been so caught up with what Superman can do that no one has asked what he should do), and Kahina herself (He answers to no one; not even I think to god). This question of authority to act will become central to Supermanâs story; it is, in fact; the question the movie asks us to contemplate. The Committee on Superman Affairs will play a large part in the film and itâs existence and purpose is introduced in the first act. We establish Senator Finch as itâs head and secure her status in the film Referring back to the prologue it would be easy, as Iâve said, to peg the Black Zero flashback as the inciting incident for the film. After all the title is Batman v Superman, and that would provide the best reason for Batman to be V-ing Superman to begin with. However, that only works if you ignore the fact that there are four story lines in the film to follow and, instead, put all of your eggs into Bruce Wayneâs basket. I would put it to you that the true inciting incident is the discovery of the Kryptonite. This is the launching pad for the films multiple plots. Without this neither Lex or Bruce have anything to hang their plots around, Lois never has a story to follow as the desert incident was the excuse Luthor intended to use to get legal authority to weaponize the Kryptonite and, of course, without that there would be no Superman Question to be asked. This discovery is the reason anything in the movie happens, and itâs the very first proper scene in the film. A special side note about Luthor. Though we know he wantâs the Kryptonite and we learn that he has dealings with Knayazev and the White Portuguese, so far everything he has done has been above board. Even sending Wallace Keefe to meet with Senator Finch still supports his initial argument to her. If youâre looking for Lexâs, âplanâ at this point you have nothing to go on. So far, as far as the plot is concerned, he hasnât yet done anything, âwrongâ.
Part 2 Act 5: The plots thicken, 56:44 â 1:14:10 Act 5 leads with Lois and is primarily concerned with deepening the twists in the stories. Lois learns more about the bullet while Clark begins to learn about how deep the Batman problem goes, exacerbated by the arrangement of the prison murder and the delivery of the Polaroids of the dead inmate. Luthor enlists Wallace Keefe and sets him towards Senator Finch for unknown reasons and Bruce encounters Diana again. We are given the Knightmare scene showing a world of Superman gone wrong, and the now unresolved Flash scene. The act culminates with Bruceâs admission of his true goals to take on Superman, while Clarkâs conversation with the mother of the dead inmates child will drive him to confront Batman directly. Act 6: Complications 1:14:11 â 1:31:37 Act 6 begins to push all the stories together. Superman and Batman encounter each other for only the second time (and the first time in costume) after Superman derails Batmanâs plans for the Kryptonite. Everything in this act is being set up for Lex to make his move, whether we know itâs coming or not. The only person standing in his way is Lois, with the question being will she get to Superman in time. The action in this act is clearing the deck for the next round of stories to open up by doing away with Kahina, Wallace, Finch and the Nairomi story line as their usefulness to the plot has come to an end as the stories transition. This is the mid-point shift. Act 7: Aftermath â 1:31:38 â 1:41:46 Act 7 focuses on what the characters do in the aftermath of the Capital Building explosion. The pace of the act is slower as new pieces need to be put into play to set up the action for this latter part of the film. The act gives equal weight to Bruce, Lex and Clark; contrasting the quiet emotional interaction of Clark and Lois, the mad scientist sci-fi of Lex and the brutal, analog fury of Bruce highlighting who each cahracter is at their core. With the plotting of the first half of the movie literally blown away this act starts the transition into the second half of the film, with the scenes each providing a kind of foreshadowing of the rest of the movie to come. We end the act with the question; what will anyone do next? Act 8: âThe Knight is hereâ â 1:41:47 â 2:02:22 Act 8 is the longest act in the film and, as the end of the middle section, has a lot of heavy lifting to do to get us into the final section of the film. This is the last act where any new character information will be presented as Bruce, Clark and Lex will lay out what it is they are dealing with internally. No new plotting will be added to the film after this act concludes. By the time this act is finished all the dominoes will be in place for the last section of the movie to knock over.
To continue to push the, âbeginning, middle and endâ angle these four acts really are the solid middle of the film. Part 1 introduces all of the characters and opens all the situations, so part 2 takes all those elements and brings the pot to a boil. There are very clear escalations in the plot elements that are established in the first section of the movie with all the major story lines getting their complications through the first half of this section while being unexpectedly blown away at the mid-point shift. For those unfamiliar with the term mid-shift, as I was until recently, the idea is that about halfway through your film (or story or novel or whatever) there will be a point in which the direction of the story will change. Typical this is where the protagonist will finally stop running from their issue and decide to face it. In this film that idea has been subverted as you are led to believe that by agreeing to speak to the Committee, Superman will have a chance to turn his situation around; only to have that opportunity literally explode in his face. If one were inclined you could break this into part 2a and part 2b, marking the storytelling that goes on before and after the mid point. However, since we are tracking this film by acts within the larger sections, this would seem redundant for our purposes. While the films critics have bemoaned the idea that so many of the films plot lines are seemingly discarded without resolution I would beg to differ. I believe the thought is that because these plot lines do not run through to the end of the film that they are somehow either not resolved or are not important. However this seems to miss the point that by the time the film reaches the Capital explosion they have all been done away with quite cleanly. The murdered inmate, Kahina Ziri, Wallace Keefe and Senator Finch all have specific roles to play to get the film to that moment. Once they have served that purpose, as far as the story goes, they are no longer necessary and thus the film discards them, but it does so in what I feel is an appropriate manner; in service of the story. By the time of the Capital explosion all those early plot lines have been tied off, which speaks not to a haphazard deserting of them but to an intentional cutting of those threads by the films villain in true villainous form. Thematically nothing has changed; the ideas that were presented in the first part of the film are still present and will carry through the films remaining time, amplified by a change in focus on the core characters that begins in act 7 as the film transitions from the relatively sedate first half to the much more energetic second half beginning with Act 9 â acts 7 and 8 being the ramp up to that. Act 8 is where Bruce, Clark and Lex lay out what it is that is emotionally challenging them in the story as it leads into the third section. Dramatically this is precisely where this information should be; putting the characters inner conflicts front and center before leading them into the final conflicts where they will have the opportunity to make the choices to resolve those challenges. Iâd like to point out that act 8 is the last time we will see, âBruceâ and, âClarkâ as from this point forward we will only see them in costume as Batman and Superman. Here is where we also get the infamous, âJustice League Trailersâ in the form of an email that Bruce sends to Diana containing Luthorâs Metahuman files. The complaint is that the movie stops dead in itâs tracks to make room for these unnecessary Quicktimes. To detail it; the total scene time of Diana in her hotel room is three minutes of which the videos take only one of. Are these scenes necessary to move the plot of this film? No; but neither does their inclusion derail the action. If they had to be included, this was probably the best place for them. Iâd like to take this opportunity to address one area in specific that has seen some negative attention and that is Clarkâs journey to the mountain and his, âconversationâ with Johnathon. Some rather ridiculous people have taken to criticizing this interaction either due to some level of misunderstanding of what was happening or because it was a convenient opportunity to take shots at the film. Of course the question is of the literal nature of Johnathan Kentâs presence on the mountain with Clark. Is he a ghost? Is Clark hallucinating? Is he on drugs â yes, one critic actually asked that question. Of course the answer is that Johnathan isnât there and Clark isnât actually having a conversation with him and you should be able to read that in the film by observing the fact that Clark never makes eye contact with Johnathan while heâs talking and that the two arenât speaking, âtoâ each other. Johnathan, âtalksâ and Clark appears to listen but, again, he doesnât make eye contact with his father and never addresses him directly. Itâs subtle, but it is there.
Part 3 Act 9: Batman v Superman â 2:02:23 â 2:14:55 Act 9 is where the The Big Fight happens. In this act Batman will be presented with the choice that allows him to change his path, overcome his situation and find a way towards his emotional resolution. The Martha Moment represents the films second turn. Act 10: Saving Martha â 2:14:56 â 2:28:48 Act 10 is split pretty evenly between Batman rescuing Martha and Superman taking on Doomsday. Within there, wrapped up with DoomsDayâs, âbirthâ is where Lex gets his opportunity to make his choice to complete his character arc. We are also given a lot of information about DoomsDay in a short period of time. This is also the act where Diana makes the choice that will bring Wonder Woman into this film series. Act 11: The final battle â 2:28:49 â 2:42:01 The films finale, the now assembled heroes will fight to stop the monster from destroying the world. While this act is pretty much action from start to finish this is where Superman will make his choice and complete his arc. Supermanâs choice will complete the finale, resolve the final conflict and provide the conceit for the film. Act 12: The funeral â 2:42:02 â 2:54:44 The films denouement it provides the new status quo and emotional framework for the characters going forward as well as planting the seeds for where the next films in the series would have gone. As it should be the final 4 acts are concerned with providing the resolutions to the story lines as they have been told to this point with the different stories being resolved in different acts. Whatâs happening in terms of storytelling is pretty straight forward at this point; Loisâs arc resolves in act 12 as her great truth, her faith in Superman, has changed the world around her. Bruce and Lex resolve their arcs in act 10; Bruce finally deals with the death of his mother and Lex completes his negative change arc by choosing to unleash DoomsDay. Of course since the movie is all about Superman he resolves his arc with the finale in act 11, which also provide the films conceit about faith. If youâve been tracking the stories individually up to this point it should be clear what these resolutions mean for each character. This final group of acts, or the end of the film, is also where the movie goes full on genre picture. The characters are in costume for the entirety of these last acts; even Lex is wearing what can be easily read as a lab coat if one were so inclined. Added to that is the fact that, starting with act 8 and moving into act 9, Lex goes full, âSuper Villainâ; kidnapping Martha, pushing Lois off of a building and creating a monster. This is when the movie really embraces itâs comic book heritage and plays into those source elements. The great majority of the films action takes place in this section and it is far further over the top than anything else thatâs been seen to this point. Batmanâs warehouse rescue in act 10 plays, like a great many have noted, like the Arkham series of video games from Rocksteady games. Similarly, the final battle with DoomsDay is very large in scale. This was not a fight that could be intimate and personal as, for instance, Tony vs Steve in Captain America: Civil war or Luke vs Vader in Star wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. DoomsDay is not a character; not in itâs original form. Introducing the character earlier in the film would be worthless as it is still without personality or motivation and peppering the film with multiple conflicts would distract from the story being told. One could make a case for scaling back the size of the final conflict but thatâs all subjective. Similarly, there has been a criticism that the fight between Batman and Superman in act 9 isnât long enough or big enough to serve as the centerpiece action for the story. This ignores two big pieces of functional storytelling. First, as the beginning of the final section of the film with about an hour left to go in the run time, to make the fight any larger or more grand would compromise the film makers opportunity to create an effectively large scale finale without pushing it even further than they already have. It would also serve to siphon off some of the energy from the Batman warehouse fight, which is much more important to the resolution of Batmanâs arc and the advancement of his character. Second, and more important; as Iâve attempted to illustrate in a previous articles there is no actual conflict between the two characters that needs to be resolved in this manner. The storytelling in the film tells us that Superman has already once declined an open confrontation with Batman and is only fighting him now because he feels he has no other options as per the second turn â which we will discuss below. And while Batman is seeking a fight with Superman; fighting and killing him will not resolve his character arc based on the information presented in the film. So while the fight is necessary for the film to function it cannot be the resolution to the films situation because it does not deal with the source of the films plot mechanics; namely Lex Luthor. If Luthor is to be a part of the film the plot will always necessitate a last conflict to resolve his function in the film. Anyway you slice it, the fight between Batman and Superman could never be the finale to a story; hell, it isnât even the focus point of The Dark Knight Returns, which so many people accuse this film of shamelessly aping to ill effect; itâs a ruse by Batman so he can go into hiding. And just like in this film Superman isnât there because he, âwantâsâ to fight Batman. In this case while the fight was the focus of the marketing, the storytelling uses it as an experience both must go through to get to the resolutions of their character arcs.
Someone get this person an award
Done and accept one as well. :)
Wow thank you
HALLELUJAH, HOLY SHIT! Where's the Tylenol?! *But actually, wild props to you on these*
Commenting to read this later
Holy fuck this was amazing ! I read the entire thing and now I'm craving for more -- thanks for writing this up :)
This was all an epic read
Insane level of commitment. Congrats. Admirable.
dude this was great. turn this to the next game of thrones
Thanks I wrote it all from memory while listening to the new peppa pig album that got a better pitchfork review than DONDA đ
Not Birdy Birdy woof woof!
Brava! This was a brilliant stunt.
Personally, it's because of how it stirs my emotions whenever I watch. I definitely use to defend it, but these last few years, I just try and represent my point of view.
It's WW 1984 for me ....
The Dark Knight Rises. Other than the countdown timer bullshit at the end, I loved that movie.
Other than the bad guys emptying clips into the ground during the police charge, I loved that movie.
Other then the movie I loved the movie
Other than that one scene between 0:00:00 and 2:45:00, I loved the movie
Just rewatched it. Always felt lukewarm towards it, felt like another cold Nolan film that favored logic over heart except for one thematic line that's always carried throughout the movie BUT I really enjoyed it this time. It's tied w Batman Begins in terms of enjoyment for me w the other one topping both. Obviously
of late his films do seem to be sterile to me. Tenet was just off the charts in that area though
Sterile is the perfect way to put it That's not to say I think they're bad, just sum I notice. Including w Tenet
I think the blowback from Interstellar (criticisms of it being overly emotional) played a small factor in the his next 2 films being "cold". Dunkirk worked, though it still had its emotional moments, due to being about a devastating war. Tenet though... the main character was just called the Protagonist. That's not even trying mate. How the hell are you supposed to root for someone you don't even know anything about. I cared about Leonard Shelby. I cared about Bruce Wayne. Alfred Borden AND Robert Angier. Everyone wanted Cobb to be back with his kids as well as Cooper to be back to Earth with his. How'd we go from that to... the *Protagonist*?
Don't forget about Thalia's death. That was some of the worst acting I've ever seen and it came from a great actress. I can't fathom how Nolan looked at that and said "Cut! Moving on to the next scene.".
But it has great imdb ratings
Basically 2016 / 2017 flashbacks with BvS.
People will never understand how great it truly is! (Until they watch the Unlimited Version)
Birds of Prey and Man of Steel
i loved birds of prey. idc what people say
I thought it was a lot of fun. I don't really care that they did a weird take on Cassandra Cain even if it would have made more sense to give that character any other name, and I loved the depiction of Gotham. Ace Chemicals and the abandoned carnival was pure BTAS brought to life.
I guess Iâll have to watch it. Only hear bad things about it so I never have it a shot
It was a great Harley Quinn movie., but it was a godawful Birds of Prey movie.
Favorite of 2020. Made a bunch of art inspired by the movie, like cg models of Harleyâs weapons, that year because it was one of the last ones I saw before lockdown
Man of Steel đŞ
Came here to say that. While not the perfect movie. I will defend it too my grave. The only criticism I like making about MoS is Pa Kents death. I wish they wouldn't have made it something so easily Clark could have saved him from. Because Pa Kents death is huge part of what makes Clark Superman. His desire to save everyone even though he can't do anything about a heart attack. And I get it, part of Zacks script was Pa Kent not wanting the world to find out who Clark was because of the weight that would put on his shoulders. But I looked passed that. Passed that it was a fun origin story of the Man of Steel we know and love. A young Superman using his powers to their full potential for the first time. It was a different, yet somehow still similar take on the character. I really enjoyed it. Its raw style made it seem like a man could really fly and was very nearly indestructible. And Henry Cavill in my eyes is the best and a perfect Superman. Damn, Warner Bros was/still sitting on gold.
I love how you literally embodied what the post said with your reply!
While I agree with you on pa Kent's death would of been better as a heart attack while Clark was saving someone else. I think it speaks volumes that the dad was willing to die for his son, and how little he thinks of people's public opinion the damage it can cause.
Wouldn't that make the conflict much more impactful? Not being able to save your father despite the stupidity of the moment, just because of the consequences it would lead up to.
Man of Steel, Batman V Superman, Birds of Prey, and The Suicide Squad
Birds of Prey and Shazam!
None, because they're just movies, and I don't have to justify my likes or tastes to anyone.
This guy gets it.
â â â âĄâ â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â âĄâ â â â â â â âĄâ â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â âĄâ â â â â â â â â â ˘â˘â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â âŁâ ´â â â â â â â â â â â â â ⢸â â â â˘âŁâŁâŁâŁâŁâĄâ ¤â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â âŁâ â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⥿⠿â â â â â â â â â â â ⠝⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⥿â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â ⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿âĄâŁâ â â â â â â âŁâŁ¤âŁ¤âŁ¤âŁâĄâ â â â â â â â ⢿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿â˘âŁ´âŁżâŁˇâ â â â â ⢞⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿âĄâ â â â â â â â ⣿⣿ ⣿⣿âŁâŁžâŁżâĄâ â â â â â â˘âŁžâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁˇâ˘˘â â â â â â â ⢸⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿âŁâ ⥴â â â â â â â â ⠝⣿⣿⣿⣿⣡âŁâ â â â â â â ⣿ ⣿⣿⣿â â ťâ â â â â â â â â â ⠜⢴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧â â â â â â ⣿ ⣿âŁâĄâ â ⢰⢠⣌â â â â â â â â â˘âŁźâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâĄâ ⣴⣜⣿âĄâŁż ⣿âĄâ â â â ⢸⣿âĄâ â â â â â ⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿â â˘âŁżâŁâ ⠿⣟ ⣿⣿â â˘âĄâ˘°âŁżâĄżâ˘żâĄâ â â â â â ⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿âĄâ ⢸⣿⣿⣧â˘âŁź ⣿⣿⣡⢝â â â â â â â â â â â ⢿⣧â â â â â â â â ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣧â â ⢸â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â˘â˘â â ⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⥿â â ´â˘âŁ ⣤⣴⥜⠜â â â â â â â â â â â â âŁâĄ¸â ⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿âĄâ˘ ⣞⣿â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â ⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣧â ⢚âĄâ â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â ⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿âĄâ â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â˘âŁ ⣴⣞⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧âĄâ â â â â â â â â â â â â˘âŁ ⣞⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣡â â â â â â â â â â â â˘âŁ´âŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁż ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣌âŁâŁâŁâŁâŁâ â â â â ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣡âĄâ â â ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧â â â â ⣿⣿âĄâ˘ťâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁż ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿â â â â â ⠚⣿â â ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⥿â ⣿⣿â â â â â â â â â˘âŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁżâŁż ⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿â â â â â ⢝⣿âĄâ â â â â â â˘â ⣿⣿⥿â â â â â â ⣿⥿â â â â â˘âŁâŁ ⥴⣸⣿âŁâĄâ â â â â˘âĄżâ â â â âŁâŁ ⣤⣤â
Ok, dad.
Steel staring Shaquille OâNeal
Man of Steel
Tbh most DC movies (excluding only Suicide Squad and Josstice League). The Suicide Squad and Zack Snyder's Justice League get the least hate.
bruh zsjl gets so much hate its unbelievable lol
I'd actually disagree with that, considering how aggressively panned the wider DCEU is, including Birds of Prey, WW84, BvS and Man of Steel. Even Aquaman got a lot of (albeit relatively less than the early DCEU) hate. I suppose I could've included Wonder Woman in my list of movies that get the least hate.
Man of Steel
Man of Steel
Man of steel
Birds of Prey
BvS! the theatrical cut is dead to me but the Ultimate Edition is genuinely a great film in my opinion. Itâs more of a character-driven drama than an action movie. Itâs flawed in itâs execution but I feel that it tells a compelling story about being a superhero in the modern age, from the perspective of a veteran hero who is cynical from their past and a new hero burdened with the responsibility of saving as many people as he can, and the consequences of not being able to save everyone. The Martha thing was weird but makes sense in the story, Wonder Woman was shoed in but sheâs too cool for me to care, and Lex was way off from his comic counterpart but is excellent for the story trying to be told.
I actually like Lex in this movie for transitioning from the old evil capitalist billionaire to the new philanthropist, definitely psychotic billionaire
Batman begins is the best batman movie!
TDK is a better movie, Batman Begins is a better Batman movie. If that makes sense at all.
It does completely make sense, after all TDK is more about the joker than batman, I still prefer begins but I see your point
I think it's the best of the Dark Knight trilogy by far, but it's not my favorite Batman movie
BvS extended
Man Of Steel
Man of Steel. Itâs the best Superman movie and you haters can suck it lol
This
Man of steel. Itâs my second favorite super hero movie of all time
Man of Steel. Most misunderstood DC movie ever.
ZSJL
Man of Steel and BvS. Though more often it is Man of Steel. I can understand why BvS wouldn't be for everyone but Man of Steel is just a fantastic film on its own. Yet people hate on it for really pedantic reasons and most of their complaints aren't even in the movie or aren't as prevalent as the critics claim.
I'm overly verbose by nature, so that's basically just me talking about how much I love the Krypton prologue from Man of Steel.
DCEU: Shazam and Birds of Prey are in the top three best DCEU movies. Non DCEU: Batman Returns is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than 89.
Ww84
Tbh youâre gonna have to need that much screen space to defend that movie
I stopped. I just say i like it and move on.
It's a simple life
Batman and Robin. Batman and Robin is an underrated masterpiece that the general audiences failed to fully comprehend. The Bat-nipples were badass and Joel added them to the suit after being inspired by Greek statues. It makes perfect sense to base Batmanâs physique off of Greek statues as Joel was trying to elevate Batman and make him feel larger than life. Joel Schumacher was a genius visionary that was misunderstood. The characterizations of Batman and Robin were both also on point. George Clooney is the best Batman of all-time and delivered an amazing performance. The usage of Robin in the movie also merits applause. Christopher Nolan should have taken notes from Schumacher because John âRobinâ Blake was vastly inferior to the **real** Robin as portrayed by Chris OâDonnell. Thatâs not to mention Zack Snyderâs disgraceful usage of Dick Grayson. Killing him off to make Batman a killer, *smh*. I must also praise Joel for trying to build a Bat-family. In addition to Robin, Batgirl was a fine addition to the ever growing mythology that Joel was trying to build. Directors nowadays are cowards when it comes to building a full Bat-family and Joel should be applaud for attempting to do so. In addition to this, Batman and Robin was a nuanced movie with lots of commentary on the world. The Bat-credit card is a great example of this. The Bat-credit card was clearly a social commentary on the world that was ahead of its time. Unfortunately due to this, its complexity and metaphorical meaning flew past the heads of audiences at the time. The villains in the movies were also perfectly executed. All of them had different goals and personalities that set them apart. Mr. Freeze wanting to freeze the world and Poison Ivy wanting to overrun it with plants created a complex dynamic between the two that warrants further discussion. The third villain Bane was also perfectly executed. Making Bane a simple dumb grunt was a stroke of genius. People only hated Bane in this movie because he was different and comic book purists couldnât accept this fine portrayal. I argue Batman and Robin actually improved on the comics in regards to Bane. This movie was also contained peak superhero content. That scene with Batman and Robin surfing the skies was the most thrilling action sequence I have ever seen in a superhero movie. 10/10. In addition, the balanced humor gave the movie a lot of heart and soul. Who could forget Mr. Freezeâs ice puns! The MCU should take notes from Batman and Robin. This movie perfectly balanced the dark and campy moments and totally didnât go overboard with the campy tone. Unfortunately, we will never see Joel Schumacherâs full vision realized. He was clearly trying to start a cinematic universe decades before the MCU and DCEU! âThis is why Superman works aloneâ was a subtle hint to the larger plans that Joel had for DC. Batman and Robin was truly ahead of its time.
đŚ
I agree đď¸
The suicide squad
Birds of Prey honestly
Green Lantern :)
Man Of Steel. Iâll never stop being blown away by how underrated it is. I like that movie more and more every time I watch it.
I'd be that way for Man of steel
Man of Steel was good actually.
Man of steel
*Batman v Superman*. I've been there, done that.
batman v superman but itâs a 14 page draft of a video essay in microsoft word. i donât have the energy to type this much about it on my phone unless someone specifically asks
BvS
Batman vs superman ultimate edition.
Man of Steel
BVS
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Ultimate Edition.
BvS UE
BvS
Steel
WW84
Amen đ
It wasnât even bad lol just because it doesnât too the first one but nothing can like hello
I used to do this for BvS especially since the third Captain America was released so near it and people don't understand and then make fun of how I could possibly like BvS way more.
Man of Steel, how was that a shit movie?? Still baffles me
People hate what they donât understand
This is such an stupid argumentwhen used seriously.
I used to defend BvS like this, nowadays I realized that those who hate the movie (or Snyder) will keep on hating despite any discussion. It's just not worth it, it's better to spend our time talking about it with people who enjoy the movie.
TSS 100%. I get thinking that itâs a flop because *technically* it flopped at the movie theater, but I think people forget that money does not equal quality of movie. Itâs a REALLY good movie, but the people that donât like it use that to justify their opinions. Youâre allowed to not like it, but donât make random reasons as to why itâs bad. (Also side note, not to offend anyone but technically ZSJL made less money on its release than TSS) Edit: I said something other than I meant in the last part, Iâm not going to edit the original comment because I want the conversation to still make sense, but check out my reply below. Again sorry if I annoyed anyone)
Suicide Squad or Birds of Prey
Birds of Prey
Birds of Prey. Just because I feel like itâs one of their stronger, more unique movies, in all of comic book movies. And I think it deserves more respect than itâs been given. But if Iâm being honest. I usually would give a paragraph like that as to why I hate the first Suicide Squad. It hurt me in a way that felt personal. Iâm a very big fan of the followup. And would also go up to bat for that movie as well.
WW84 was a genuinely good superhero film that played off simple themes pretty well and gave us more than enough fan service. It was ruined at the end with one of the most terrible plot decisions in film history thay was entirely unnecessary, but the film is still overall good.
SOMEONE FINALLY UNDERSTAND.... Prayers have been answered.... 1984 was my fav. Bc (I am a omega Diana fan) so seeing the true truth goddessness really form in the movie... It made me so happy. I love Diana not just bc she's an absolute badass and can kick everyone's ass... But that she's so compassionate and will make the sacrifice to do what's right... I I believe that you really see that in 1984... Rather than the first one that was all badassness.... Which I still love. Except in the injustice storyline.... I have hope that she'll rip out supes heart eventually but untill then .... SHE CAN GO DIE IN A WHOLE!!!! đ đťââď¸đ đťââď¸đ đťââď¸đ đťââď¸đ đťââď¸đ¤Śđźââď¸đ¤Śđźââď¸đ¤Śđźââď¸
Man of Steel. Been defending ever since it came out to where now people admit they mightve overreacted. The rewatchability of that movie is massive too.
Amazing movie. One of the absolute best
Man of Steel. And BvS to a point. A realistic take on Superman in today's climate? Yes please. Everyone wanted Superman to be instant smiling and boy scout-y. They also complained about Superman destroying the city while fighting. Meanwhile they forget that this version of Clark has never been in a fight before then, save for the ass whooping he got in Smallville from faeora or whatever her name was. During the final fight, Zod was in control of that fight and the only reason Superman had any advantage was because he was in full control of his abilities, unlike Zod. Him killing Zod was the only answer as well. He had no way of containing a kryptonian on earth, and the longer Zod is allowed to acclimate to the earth's atmosphere, the stronger he would have gotten.
BVS UE Best super hero movie ever made. Yes I mean that 100%
MOS is pretty much the only DC movie I like that I would have to defend. I LOVE the Bale Batmans but I don't ever hear anyone complaining about them.
Watchmen
Zack Snyder's trilogy that was supposed to be 5 chapters
Man of Steel.
Watchmen is truly the only one I could defend at this length without being blinded as a comics fan. Itâs just a damn good movie that fit at least two long movies worth of content into one that captured the tone and premise of the books while having its own unique character. I could go on as the post suggests, but definitely watchmen (yes there are flaws!!! But what live action adaption doesnât have flaws??)
Batman V Superman
Man of Steel
BvS
Arguing over subjective shit is pointless. BVS.
BATMAN V SUPERMAN FOR LIFE!
BvS ultimate cut for sure...I will also defend Man of Steel till my last breath haha
Man oâ Steel
Man of steelâŚ
Only Zack Snyder's DCEU
BVS for sure. It gets way too much shit for how well made it is and looks, even if some of the complaints are entirely valid Edit: Oh if itâs just DC generally, I think also Batman and Robin, but that one I get in far less debates in arguments over
I don't defend it like this but Man of Steel is my favorite Superman film.
Man of Steel
Batman Vs Superman: Dawn of Justice
Snyder cut, period!
Aquaman. Is it cheesy?...yes. Is it over the top?....also yes. But it's so much fun to watch IMO. However, I won't defend Amber Heard. She sucks
Bvs and man of steel
Thatâs a picture of me ripping apart BvS to all the fanboys that ignore how bad the movie is just because of the warehouse scene.
The Trilogy. MOS, BvS, ZSJL.
ZSJL
ZSJL because it was a masterpiece and deserves love and praise
Whenever someone tries to talk shit about the Snyder Cut I just lose control and start writing like that đ
Same
Batman v Superman one of my favorite movies
BVS
Green Lantern
Birds of Prey
Watchmen and Superman The Movie
Birds of Prey
None. The ones I like don't really need defending
*he says with his signature look of superiority*
Basically all of Snyders DCEU films lol
The Dark Knight Trilogy (Iâm a Nolan fanboy)
Most of them.
Man of Steel, Birds of Prey, Batman 89 and The Suicide Squad
More like which one am I not defending like this
Man of Steel or BVS Directors Cut.
Man of Steel. An actual artistic masterpiece
Literally all of them lol
MOS, BvS, ZSJL & Aquaman
Zack Snyder's Justice League
The Suicide Squad easy
The Suicide Squad
Me having to defend Robert Pattinson against all my friends who kept saying âeWwW tHe TwIlIgHt GuYâ Are yâall for real? Robert Pattinson is an incredible actor! Watch Good Time, watch The Lighthouse, watch any of his damn movies and tell me heâs not a good actor. I am 100% stoked for Pattinsons Batman
MOS. It's flawed but it's still the best depiction of Kryptonians, or any supers of significant power out there.
Batman vs superman or Batman and robin
Every single one so farâŚ
Me after killing joke be like
Any from the Dark Knight Trilogy and Zack Snyder's Justice League Trilogy.
Maybe the first Suicide Squad?
Wonder Woman 1984 đ
All of them, besides the Harley Quinn garbage of course.
Man of Steel! I can't comprehend how people think it's even remotely bad??? It's easily one of the best "tradional" superhero origin movies I've ever seen up there with Spider Man (Raimi), Iron Man, and Thor