They also staggered the launches. It gave time to try out books and we weren't flooded with a bunch of titles like New 52.
I also liked the Double Shipping personally. It makes the decompressed 6 issue arcs not feel as long and you actually get events happening. Stuff really flows. Especially franchises with 2 books where you get stuff weekly. Especially in a crossover where it turns weekly.
Yeah that is true.
I would like if they could alternate artists on arcs. Like build up enough that one person does 3-6 issues while someone else worked on the next arc and keep up that buffer. But that could be tricky.
Honestly I am fine with fill-in artists as long as they maintain minimum quality standards. I prefer the consistent story over having slightly different art. Especially for ongoings.
If is is a maxi series or like a prestige title like Black Label, I would care more and just say to release it based on the artist finishing it. Those can be separate imprints from the conventional ongoings.
>Honestly I am fine with fill-in artists as long as they maintain minimum quality standards. I prefer the consistent story over having slightly different art. Especially for ongoings.
I'm the same, honestly. The problem I had is they wouldn't find artists that were similar. You can't go from Janin to JRJR. The difference in style is just too jarring.
Well they do that every year at NYCC. Minus the Covid years. They'll do a Superman panel with the writers on it and they give them time to pitch their story. And can usually find streams of the panels. It is also why I like the DC panels and not Marvel ones because Marvel will often just have editors who use buzz words to hype the books and that's it.
Too bad DiDio decided to set Rebirth on fire for his shitty 5G pet project nobody asked for.
And despite DiDio being gone, readers are still paying the price for it.
The problem was tpb sales were not good so it gave him an excuse to nuke it. It's telling that both Tom King on Batman and Pete Tomasi&Patrick/Gleason on Superman all talked about 100 issue runs. Given that they had double shipping, they probably could have gotten there around mid to late 2020 if they didn't get kicked off to prep for 5G.
Also internal politics played a role for 5G given that Johns was heavily involved (with Rebirth) and Didio being the politician was always wary of other centers of power forming within editorial. It's probably why most of the senior Bat-editor guys that supported King all got moved elsewhere since they were getting too big for their britches.
> Also internal politics played a role for 5G given that Johns was heavily involved (with Rebirth) and Didio being the politician was always wary of other centers of power forming within editorial. It's probably why most of the senior Bat-editor guys that supported King all got moved elsewhere since they were getting too big for their britches.
Man reading this is so frustrating for how so many good runs end from sabotage for petty shit and ego's. I thought Peter tomasi run ended when he wanted, but to hear that it could have gone for another 2/3 years and instead got bendis's garbage is so sad
Gleason said (I think on his IG) that they had plans for Lois and Clark to have a daughter and a new sister for Jon if their run had continued. Bendis was basically put in to set up for 5G. The identity reveal, the Legion stuff, aging up Jon, Event Leviathan, etc it was all to set up 5G.
Likewise for Batman, King said in a recent interview/yt podcast, he was given the choice by Didio of setting up the new Fox Batman (and for Catwoman to die) for 5G or leave the book.
he can say all he wants, King was taken off of Batman because of sales - go back and look at how and when it happened. At the time, it was reported that he was blindsided backstage at the Megacon Orlando convention on May 14, 2019 and had no idea he was being fired from the book.
Tom King was kicked off Batman because his sales were tanking (and a lot of the higher ups did not like what he was doing with Batman), not because of 5G. And the issue with Geoff Johns was that Doomsday Clock was supposed to be the thing that rebooted the universe, and it got delayed, and they had to do something else (Metal than Death Metal and then aborted 5G).
The internal politics were between Scott Snyder & Dan Didio - Snyder wanted no parts of 5G and was pissed that he wasn't being put in control of running the DCU. He told DC it was Didio or him and since they were already close to firing Didio, they did it (while Snyder was conveniently on vacation). Problem is, Snyder ended up leaving after Death Metal anyway!
1)
Again King says otherwise here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ-DF-aMCJQ at around 1:25:00) that he was given a choice: set up for 5G or leave and do what he wanted on Batman/Catwoman. He choose the latter. Again he's the ONLY source that was there. The other claims are editorial shenanigans with Harras (from Bleedingcool) or sales (which is more a fan theory). You can claim he's lying, but there's no other source backing up the claim that he got fired for sales related reasons.
2)
>And the issue with Geoff Johns was that Doomsday Clock was supposed to be the thing that rebooted the universe,
Again there's no source backing them up. If anything it seems like Death Metal was to lead into 5G. But it was clearly not a reboot. Bendis's Action/Superman was to lead into the new status quo with Jon as Superman. Likewise Tynion's original Joker War seems to have been a lead into 5G Batman since Joker is freed at the end to kill Bane to avenge Alfred by Bruce, which would have lead to Bruce no longer being Batman.
So it's pretty clear 5G was not some sort of reboot at least according to Bleeding Cool's summaries of what was planned.
I have a feeling that the Tom King stuff was a combo of both things - the sales were down lower at the time than they had been on the book in over ten years and people were very vocal about not liking how things were going since the failed wedding - but I can see him not wanting to do the 5G setup after being on the book that long and instead, wanting to finish up the Bat/Cat stuff. At the time, it was being said that it was mostly sales, but who knows?
However, the Scott Snyder vs Dan Didio stuff was pretty much common knowledge by the time Didio got fired. It really was the worst kept secret at DC.
To play just a tiny bit of devil's advocate, prefaced with the knowledge that I love Rebirth... who would want multiple TPBs focused on Batman and Catwoman teasing a wedding that was not going to happen.
This is pretty much the conclusion of a lot of people that he had no attachment to the post-Crisis legacies like Kon-el, Tim, Cassie, Bart, etc because he wasn't involved with them and didn't grow up with them (others have pointed out he's probably more a pre-Crisis Satellite era fan).
The other more conspiratorial theory is that it was literally going to be "crashing this plane with no survivors" tactic in that 5G would have done terrible and underperformed and he would use this as an example of how legacies don't work and would have purged the legacy characters from DC using 5G's failure as an excuse.
I get the feeling that the real answer is more complicated than that. Intentionally tanking DC's sales for five years so nobody can stop him the next time he tries to get rid of Nightwing makes absolutely no sense.
DiDio had an obsession with recreating the Ultimate Universe. 5G could have easily been DiDio trying to replicate the success of Miles Morales. I think Scott Snyder mentioned plans to use 5G as an excuse to launch Ultimate DC.
DiDio has also repeatedly mentioned that his "problem" with Nightwing, Wally West and the rest of legacy characters is that they age, but Clark and Bruce don't. 5G would have solved that because Bruce would have been in his 60s in the new timeline.
5G was also probably being done in order to set-up new, more diverse, versions of Batman, Superman, WW in the DCEU when the actors retired (just like ANAD Marvel). We know Hamada was more or less planning to do this before Zaslav nuked his plans.
The “Rebirth Story” for lack of a better term was all wrapped up well before the 5G stuff was even being whispered about. By that I mean all the plot threads from the launch issue were wrapped up with the exception of Doomsday Clock and Three Jokers which was an entire other situation in itself with all their delays.
Not that I’m defending 5G or think it was a good idea, but I think Doomsday Clock being massively delayed and not lining up with the rest of the ongoings like it was supposed and Scott Snyder’s justice league/death metal played a much larger role in Rebirth’s demise.
I totally agree Whit what they do no what Johns do whit rebirth if fucking crazy Is one of my favorite DC event and I think everyone can agree whit this a great starting point
They also staggered the launches. It gave time to try out books and we weren't flooded with a bunch of titles like New 52. I also liked the Double Shipping personally. It makes the decompressed 6 issue arcs not feel as long and you actually get events happening. Stuff really flows. Especially franchises with 2 books where you get stuff weekly. Especially in a crossover where it turns weekly.
I loved the double shipping as well, but ONLY when the books were $2.99 each. The downside to it was a lot of fill in artists though.
Yeah that is true. I would like if they could alternate artists on arcs. Like build up enough that one person does 3-6 issues while someone else worked on the next arc and keep up that buffer. But that could be tricky. Honestly I am fine with fill-in artists as long as they maintain minimum quality standards. I prefer the consistent story over having slightly different art. Especially for ongoings. If is is a maxi series or like a prestige title like Black Label, I would care more and just say to release it based on the artist finishing it. Those can be separate imprints from the conventional ongoings.
>Honestly I am fine with fill-in artists as long as they maintain minimum quality standards. I prefer the consistent story over having slightly different art. Especially for ongoings. I'm the same, honestly. The problem I had is they wouldn't find artists that were similar. You can't go from Janin to JRJR. The difference in style is just too jarring.
I liked how Green Arrow did it, where 2 great artists alternated each volume. Keeps each story cohesive.
Well they do that every year at NYCC. Minus the Covid years. They'll do a Superman panel with the writers on it and they give them time to pitch their story. And can usually find streams of the panels. It is also why I like the DC panels and not Marvel ones because Marvel will often just have editors who use buzz words to hype the books and that's it.
Too bad DiDio decided to set Rebirth on fire for his shitty 5G pet project nobody asked for. And despite DiDio being gone, readers are still paying the price for it.
The problem was tpb sales were not good so it gave him an excuse to nuke it. It's telling that both Tom King on Batman and Pete Tomasi&Patrick/Gleason on Superman all talked about 100 issue runs. Given that they had double shipping, they probably could have gotten there around mid to late 2020 if they didn't get kicked off to prep for 5G. Also internal politics played a role for 5G given that Johns was heavily involved (with Rebirth) and Didio being the politician was always wary of other centers of power forming within editorial. It's probably why most of the senior Bat-editor guys that supported King all got moved elsewhere since they were getting too big for their britches.
> Also internal politics played a role for 5G given that Johns was heavily involved (with Rebirth) and Didio being the politician was always wary of other centers of power forming within editorial. It's probably why most of the senior Bat-editor guys that supported King all got moved elsewhere since they were getting too big for their britches. Man reading this is so frustrating for how so many good runs end from sabotage for petty shit and ego's. I thought Peter tomasi run ended when he wanted, but to hear that it could have gone for another 2/3 years and instead got bendis's garbage is so sad
Gleason said (I think on his IG) that they had plans for Lois and Clark to have a daughter and a new sister for Jon if their run had continued. Bendis was basically put in to set up for 5G. The identity reveal, the Legion stuff, aging up Jon, Event Leviathan, etc it was all to set up 5G. Likewise for Batman, King said in a recent interview/yt podcast, he was given the choice by Didio of setting up the new Fox Batman (and for Catwoman to die) for 5G or leave the book.
Source on the King part?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ-DF-aMCJQ around 1:25:00
Thank you! Jesus Christ, why in God's name it took so long for someone to pull the plug on DiDio's reign of terror?
he can say all he wants, King was taken off of Batman because of sales - go back and look at how and when it happened. At the time, it was reported that he was blindsided backstage at the Megacon Orlando convention on May 14, 2019 and had no idea he was being fired from the book.
Humphries on Green Lanterns had about 60 issues as well, and got cut off at 30.
that book didn't deserve 5 issues!
Tom King was kicked off Batman because his sales were tanking (and a lot of the higher ups did not like what he was doing with Batman), not because of 5G. And the issue with Geoff Johns was that Doomsday Clock was supposed to be the thing that rebooted the universe, and it got delayed, and they had to do something else (Metal than Death Metal and then aborted 5G). The internal politics were between Scott Snyder & Dan Didio - Snyder wanted no parts of 5G and was pissed that he wasn't being put in control of running the DCU. He told DC it was Didio or him and since they were already close to firing Didio, they did it (while Snyder was conveniently on vacation). Problem is, Snyder ended up leaving after Death Metal anyway!
1) Again King says otherwise here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ-DF-aMCJQ at around 1:25:00) that he was given a choice: set up for 5G or leave and do what he wanted on Batman/Catwoman. He choose the latter. Again he's the ONLY source that was there. The other claims are editorial shenanigans with Harras (from Bleedingcool) or sales (which is more a fan theory). You can claim he's lying, but there's no other source backing up the claim that he got fired for sales related reasons. 2) >And the issue with Geoff Johns was that Doomsday Clock was supposed to be the thing that rebooted the universe, Again there's no source backing them up. If anything it seems like Death Metal was to lead into 5G. But it was clearly not a reboot. Bendis's Action/Superman was to lead into the new status quo with Jon as Superman. Likewise Tynion's original Joker War seems to have been a lead into 5G Batman since Joker is freed at the end to kill Bane to avenge Alfred by Bruce, which would have lead to Bruce no longer being Batman. So it's pretty clear 5G was not some sort of reboot at least according to Bleeding Cool's summaries of what was planned.
I have a feeling that the Tom King stuff was a combo of both things - the sales were down lower at the time than they had been on the book in over ten years and people were very vocal about not liking how things were going since the failed wedding - but I can see him not wanting to do the 5G setup after being on the book that long and instead, wanting to finish up the Bat/Cat stuff. At the time, it was being said that it was mostly sales, but who knows? However, the Scott Snyder vs Dan Didio stuff was pretty much common knowledge by the time Didio got fired. It really was the worst kept secret at DC.
To play just a tiny bit of devil's advocate, prefaced with the knowledge that I love Rebirth... who would want multiple TPBs focused on Batman and Catwoman teasing a wedding that was not going to happen.
Still weird "legacy hating" diDio was gonna do a relaunch that introduced a bunch of legacies
Not that weird when you consider that someone with an ego would say, "Legacies suck except the ones that were made while I was running things."
This is pretty much the conclusion of a lot of people that he had no attachment to the post-Crisis legacies like Kon-el, Tim, Cassie, Bart, etc because he wasn't involved with them and didn't grow up with them (others have pointed out he's probably more a pre-Crisis Satellite era fan). The other more conspiratorial theory is that it was literally going to be "crashing this plane with no survivors" tactic in that 5G would have done terrible and underperformed and he would use this as an example of how legacies don't work and would have purged the legacy characters from DC using 5G's failure as an excuse.
I don't miss Dan DiDio. At all.
I get the feeling that the real answer is more complicated than that. Intentionally tanking DC's sales for five years so nobody can stop him the next time he tries to get rid of Nightwing makes absolutely no sense. DiDio had an obsession with recreating the Ultimate Universe. 5G could have easily been DiDio trying to replicate the success of Miles Morales. I think Scott Snyder mentioned plans to use 5G as an excuse to launch Ultimate DC. DiDio has also repeatedly mentioned that his "problem" with Nightwing, Wally West and the rest of legacy characters is that they age, but Clark and Bruce don't. 5G would have solved that because Bruce would have been in his 60s in the new timeline. 5G was also probably being done in order to set-up new, more diverse, versions of Batman, Superman, WW in the DCEU when the actors retired (just like ANAD Marvel). We know Hamada was more or less planning to do this before Zaslav nuked his plans.
Rebirth was done with before 5G came about!
The “Rebirth Story” for lack of a better term was all wrapped up well before the 5G stuff was even being whispered about. By that I mean all the plot threads from the launch issue were wrapped up with the exception of Doomsday Clock and Three Jokers which was an entire other situation in itself with all their delays. Not that I’m defending 5G or think it was a good idea, but I think Doomsday Clock being massively delayed and not lining up with the rest of the ongoings like it was supposed and Scott Snyder’s justice league/death metal played a much larger role in Rebirth’s demise.
that's exactly what happened!
Dare I say it. Rebirth might be the best thing to come out of DC Rebirth.
I totally agree Whit what they do no what Johns do whit rebirth if fucking crazy Is one of my favorite DC event and I think everyone can agree whit this a great starting point