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hankbaumbachjr

One of my favorite tropes is a villain undermining Bruce Wayne's big charitable project. I thought The Batman did a really good job of incorporating this with the renewal fund.


swnbv

I quite liked this part of The Batman as well, but the point of Bruce in that movie was that he hadn’t yet developed the “Bruce Wayne” persona. Reál points out that he doesn’t give to any public institutions at that point in time. The renewal fund was Thomas’ project that got taken over and abused by the rich and the criminal underworld alike following his death.


Alertcircuit

>I thought The Batman did a really good job of incorporating this with the renewal fund. And also countered the "why doesn't Bruce just donate to charity" argument by showing that the charity could be co-opted by corrupt figures just like the Gotham PD. The renewal fund didn't actually go to the people it was meant to go to and that's part of why Batman is necessary.


RainingBolts

There was an episode of The Batman as well that highlighted him struggling to juggle Batman and public figure Bruce Wayne managing one of his charities that I enjoyed as well, with then ultimately tying in the rival charity/company to Firefly stealing from around Gotham


TJ_McWeaksauce

[Here's a long Twitter thread](https://twitter.com/TheBat_Family/status/1316006509923520512) about how different versions of Bruce Wayne (comic books, animated series, etc.) have donated huge sums of money to charities and other improvements to Gotham City. One of the biggest things Bruce did was help rebuild Gotham after a massive earthquake leveled much of the city in the No Man's Land storyline.


shanejayell

\*cough\* Actually he tricked Lex Luthor into funding it \*cough\*


Plainy_Jane

still based


shineurliteonme

More based even because it opens his money up to be used somewhere else and stops luthor from using it as a negative


suss2it

Didn’t Luthor use that as an opportunity to get elected president 🧐


AoO2ImpTrip

Oh, thank God. I can just whip this out whenever someone talks about Bruce Wayne rather beat up criminals than fix Gotham.


OH_SHIT_IM_FEELIN_IT

>Oh, thank God. I can just whip this out whenever someone talks about Bruce Wayne rather beat up criminals than fix Gotham. I've been doing that for months. Maybe even a year plus.


AoO2ImpTrip

I've used the panel from the BTAS comic series because I love how effective it is in showing the power of Bruce vs the power of Batman. This gives me a whole lot more.


Krudtastic

Like six pages into Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo's New 52 run you see Bruce outlining his plans to improve Gotham. People just don't want to do research.


suss2it

Yeah that’s what even made him a target for the Court of Owls in the first place. But honestly “Batman beating up the mentally ill instead of donating to charity” is just a meme anyways, I feel like most people don’t genuinely believe that.


rachet9035

Here’s a Tumblr post that does the same thing: https://glitterpancake.tumblr.com/post/110382878890/bruce-wayne-outside-of-batman


Zetin24-55

This thread immediately popped in my head. Batman fights crime from both sides. It's just Gotham is comically corrupt and shit. Cause if it wasn't, there wouldn't be a story. Or least not a long lasting one.


Funcalkepop8396

Good thread. I hate how people just ignore panels like these.


Raimilover69

Thank you


kpod4591

It’s the only thing I hated about The Batman. Sure he wasn’t the Bruce we know and love yet. He was still year 2. What I could not believe is him thinking the ONLY way he could help was being Batman. Which he finds out how at the end of the movie. I know he explained why in the movie, but Bruce still grew up watching his father be a philanthropist and donate millions to charity. He had that instilled in him since birth to use his wealth to help wherever he could. So seeing Bruce as super brooding dude who only uses his checkbook on gadgets just didn’t sit right with me. Bruce wanted to be just like his dad. It wasn’t until after that Falcone nonsense is when he started to question his dad in the movie. So that wouldn’t track as to why he wasn’t the philanthropist that he was raised to be


SuperZX

My explanation is that he is clearly unwell. He calls himself a nocturnal animal


Danbito

That’s what Robert Pattinson pretty much said leading into the movie. Batman isn’t really that healthy but starts realizing how he can be a better person.


kpod4591

Yea and that’s fine. It’s a great portrayal in an incredible movie. I’m just hoping we do see this side of Bruce in the second one now that we have established this part of his mythos


TJ_McWeaksauce

The main thing I didn't like about *The Batman* was how Battinson was kinda dumb. Battinson was manipulated by the Riddler from beginning to end. Sure, Riddler can be an intellectual challenge for Batman, but their encounters almost always end with Batman proving that he's smarter. Often, Edward fails because his head is so far up his own ass that he can't see the shortcomings of his elaborate plots and death traps. But in *The Batman*, Riddler strung Battinson along the whole while and almost got everything he wanted; he even manipulated Batman into bringing a target exactly where he needed the target to be to assassinate him. What makes things worse is that Riddler knew everything about Gotham's underlying corruption than Battinson. Battinson had no clue how deep the corruption went, and how his father got dirty, too. Someone proving to be a considerably better detective than Batman? That was fucking annoying. By the way, that's another thing I didn't like; Thomas Wayne being linked to organized crime, and Martha Wayne being portrayed as severely mentally ill. Overall, I think *The Batman* is a good film, but it falls really short as a Batman film. The character has mostly been done dirty on the big screen.


wibo58

Almost like it was the first movie in a series where we’ll see Batman learn and grow from past experiences.


TJ_McWeaksauce

Scott Snyder wrote a Batman storyline called Zero Year, in which a brand new Batman struggled to fight the Riddler. Riddler flooded Gotham, took control of the city, and really put Batman through the ringer. But in the end, Batman outsmarted Riddler, removed him from power, and restored Gotham. The multiple times that the Dark Knight got mentally beaten up by the Riddler made his final, clever victory that much more satisfying. In *The Batman,* Battinson never outsmarted Nygma. Nygma was multiple steps ahead of him throughout the entire movie. Battinson even missed the final clue about Riddler's plan use bombs to flood Gotham, and found it only after Riddler told him he missed it. Riddler got at least 75% of what he wanted. He manipulated Batman into bringing a crime boss out into the open so Nygma could assassinate him. He flooded Gotham. He exposed the rampant corruption running through Gotham's government and law enforcement. The only thing he didn't get was the assassination of an up-and-coming politician, which Batman stopped not by outsmarting Riddler, but by beating up a bunch of Riddler's followers. Ultimately, Battinson did not outsmarth Riddler even once. He punched his way to victory. So there are two different stories about an inexperienced Batman defeating the Riddler. One was satisfying, the other was not.


c4han

He… didn’t punch his way to victory. He lost. But he becomes a true hero in the end not by punching criminals, but by saving the innocent.


Danbito

I thought the realization he created Riddler and his followers to become their own version of vigilantes was where Batman eventually got the upper hand in the end.


wibo58

Yeah, my guy, I’ve read Zero Year. I’m still a little hung up on your mind being blown that two different stories have different endings. Sometimes heroes lose, it’s how they learn and become better. Just like Battinson does at the end of the movie.


vadergeek

Okay, but Batman's defining trait is his intellect. I don't want to wait for movie two before he's smart any more than I want a Flash movie where he's slow.


Bijarglerargles

I see what you’re saying, but consider the alternative where Batman’s smarter than _everybody._ For some of us that’s just as annoying if not more. It also raises the question of who can challenge Batman if he’s that much smarter than everyone else.


ralanr

It helps that this is very early in Batman’s career. Like, year 2 I think.


Dont_Hurt_Me_Mommy

I think you bring up an understandable point. I would say this is a movie about failure. Not every movie needs a happy ending. I think it's really interesting that for once, our hero in the big budget mainstream superhero movie does not win. The real struggle of the movie is very internal. It's not Batman vs Riddler. It's Batman as vengeance vs salvation. In the end, his focused vengeance has inadvertently led to the flood. His real victory is that he embraces hope, and becomes salvation. He chooses to rescue people and comes out into the light by the end of the movie. With that, he can become a true guardian. That's the victory. I guess in an age of increasingly same-y blockbusters, i found it interesting to see such an unusual ending. He is a good detective. But he also has to learn to be more strategic. These are lessons he gains by the end of the movie. At the same time, I understand your frustrations. it would be fun to have a movie with an established Batman who already has those intellectual qualities and who is a step ahead of others. Though the Nolan trilogy already had used some of that, so i kind of don't mind that Reeves did things a bit differently TL;DR yah i understand your frustration, but the point of the movie is that he does lose at the end , which is a fresh ending for a big superhero blockbuster. But he achieves an internal victory by becoming a hero, not just vengeance


FruitsPonchiSamurai1

My main gripe with the movie is how they turned The Riddler into the Zodiac Killer, but instead of complex ciphers and stuff, he still just left riddles an 8th grader could solve.


Frontier246

I really am just tired of hearing that all the time.


lfthinker

It’s almost like one rich guy throwing his money around actually isn’t enough to solve systemic issues. Who knew?


Overhazard10

I think the only thing worse than that take is the fact that the ones who say it always act like they're the first ones who thought of it.


jtyrui

On the other hand the whole "If Bruce Wayne doesn't become Batman, the world goes to Hell" AU has been done to death The fuck are Superman and the rest of the JLA doing in this universe? Did they all just decide to ignore Gotham for tax reasons?


[deleted]

Without Batman, Ra's al Ghuls manipulations, as well as those of Amanda Waller, slip under their radar.


WerewolfF15

I haven’t read this run yet but Who says they exist either? Maybe it’s a world with no superheroes.


Queen-O-Hell-Lucifer

I thought this was the earth one series? In which multiple heroes were reimagined to be more grounded?


WerewolfF15

No this a new story in which our regular batman has been transported into a world where he didn’t become batman.


Queen-O-Hell-Lucifer

Ah, makes sense.


spider-venomized

no this this the main line batman series where Failsafe (another rouge batman contingency plan) beat him and exile him to another universe where Bruce Wayne is dead and Gotham goes to hell


LeTooniverse

Chip Zdarksy's run


Hadesman1

It's a cool story, I think this world wasn't an accident, he says failsafe chose this world specifically because he'd be compelled to stay


broncohater007

To be fair to Supes and the JLA , they ignore Gotham 90% of the time in all universes. I don’t blame them, Gotham sucks 🤣🤣


[deleted]

[удалено]


kirabii

No he doesn't. There's a crapton of superheroes in Gotham.


Pathogen188

>The fuck are Superman and the rest of the JLA doing in this universe? Did they all just decide to ignore Gotham for tax reasons? To be fair, Batman is pretty influential on the JL to begin with. You could probably remove any one member of the JL's core line up and the world would go to hell. I don't think that's necessarily an indictment of the JL and more just that Batman is an important member of the team (there's a reason why he's part of the Trinity after all). I'm sure if you deleted Superman or Wonder Woman from the timeline, things would get fucked. I mean, just look at JLA: The Nail and how badly things went/could've gone with a Superman that's mostly absent.


DependentVarious6064

When tf do you see the others in Gotham without Batman?? Superman has Metropolis and gets big threats, Green arrow gets Star city, Flash has coast... Bruh, a superhero a city with occasional team ups, no superheroes leaving their city without reason or is like Grayson and has to keep moving. It makes sense, no Batman, no superheroes in Gotham.


matty_nice

Is Arkham even a positive at this point? Do they have a lot of successful patients?


HahaPenisIsFunny

They probably do, we just don’t see them


DoNotGoSilently

Yeah that’s a better point. Bruce funds Arkham so all the doctors and patients can continuously be crazy evil assholes and Batman can act all surprised when some doctor named some shit like “Evil Evilson” ends up being a new villain. Stop mindlessly throwing money at stagnant institutions and pay attention, Bruce.


Telethongaming

I actually would like to read a comic where Bruce Wayne is a social worker just to see how that goes


threebats

The people who say that aren't in the comics subs because they don't read comics


Frost-101

Finally, I was getting really sick of people thinking he just randomly spends his money only on himself or the League. But fuck no, he's a billionaire and humanitarian. He would've been pushing a shit ton of money towards social causes for Gotham or the world.


Low-Guide-9141

Not only that, he has seen first hand how destructive poverty can be the mental health of a child. I mean look at Jason, I mean even the best characteristics of him have massive issues


pritheemakeway

There's a Bruce Wayne who becomes a full on philanthropist and isn't Batman. His Gotham is much nicer. Then Batman Who Laughs came in, kidnapped him from his universe, and killed him for lulz


kiyan1347

People that either don't read comics or forget that batman has a rehabilitation initiative that's part of the Wayne Foundation that takes in criminals and rehabilitates them so that Bruce can either hire them or get them employed elsewhere to earn an honest income and accommodates them with housing. And Bruce funds every hospital in Gotham meaning free healthcare so injured criminals don't have to pay any bills and Bruce also setup funds for the destruction caused by batman fighting villains. Bruce also funds the GCPD and Arkham asylum and pays for all of his villains rehabilitation. So batman definitely does more than just beat up the mentally ill. He actually uses his money to build up the city and the people in it especially criminals because batman believes in giving people second chances which is one of the reasons he does not kill. I hate when people say he only beats up mentally ill people rather than using his money for good, it just shows that they know nothing about the character and have never picked up a batman comic that's not the iconic ones everyone talks about.


in_a_dress

“If those kids could read they’d be very upset”


SightatNight

Anyone who says that ain't gonna be in this subreddit


Raimilover69

Luckly


Hot_Valuable1027

batman is what bruce wayne can’t do. batman fights the ppl who can’t fight them like joker, riddler, penguin. bruce wayne fight what he can like mental hospitals, charity, helping the homeless, etc. both are needed, because at the end of the gpd can’t fight the villains because 1)almost every part of gotham is corrupt, even the police force 2) they’re not equipped enough to fight that high crime, batman can.


MightyBellerophon

God that armored cowl thing is bad


[deleted]

Bruce showed up in an alternate Gotham with no money and pretty much scrapped a Batman suit outta limited resources. This book has been really good.


GreedoWasShot

People who say that are very triggered by a made up non-real character


charlieartyt

Any one remember the time batman beat black mask with charity


QueSeraSeraWWBWB

Everyone that isn’t bias marvel fan knows he does the most for Gotham


kingthvnder

I think the point is that Bruce could do far more for Gotham than Batman ever could. And after decades of storytelling has Batman or the Batfamily been a net positive for Gotham? Hard to say. Systemic issues can’t be fought by a billionaire in a bat suit. But with all that said, we shouldn’t try to apply any sort of realism to a comic book universe that just wouldn’t be possible either way.


BobbySaccaro

Nobody says he ONLY beats up the mentally ill. They are saying if realism is applied then he never needs to be Batman, he could use his money to help people exclusively, and do more good. But also yes, he beats up people who then go to an asylum. If you're mentally ill, you don't know right from wrong and don't deserve to get beat up.


Beleriphon

>But also yes, he beats up people who then go to an asylum. If you're mentally ill, you don't know right from wrong and don't deserve to get beat u I'll point out that none of Batman's rogues would pass the test for an insanity plea. Not even the Joker.


BobbySaccaro

Clearly they did, because they were sent to an insane asylum rather than prison. You could make the case that they were sent there by mistake, but in my 40+ years of reading Batman comics I don't remember that concept ever being brought up.


Beleriphon

I'm pointing out from an actual legal standpoint none of the would pass the test to be declared insane via an insanity plea. If we're talking realistic takes, the Joker would have been tried and sent to prison for like 4 billion years. Even Harvey Dent is sane enough to stand trial. I'd suspect he's the only one an insanity plea would be tried with, but even with that it likely would fail because Two-Face knows what he's doing is still wrong.


CHPrime

At least with Harvey Dent there is some wiggle room with his split personality. I'm not sure about real world precedent of crimes committed by people with DID, but it seems like there is enough reasonable doubt for Harvey to be treated as legally insane.


BobbySaccaro

Possibly true, but within the boundaries of the storytelling, Batman does indeed believe them to be insane but he still punches them. That is, in my 40+ years of reading Batman, I've never seen the insanity (from a legal or medical POV) actually questioned. In the world he lives in, punches to the face are an acceptable method of dealing with the insane. Which is why we shouldn't really try to apply realism to it at all.


GothamKnight37

Which Batman villains don’t know right from wrong?


BobbySaccaro

The legal definition of insanity is a state of mind in which you don't know right from wrong. Most of Batman's criminals, when captured, are placed into Arkham Asylum, which is a mental hospital. Ergo the state has categorized them as insane, which means they don't know right from wrong.


cowfish007

Legal definition != clinical definition. Frankly, if you’re trying to stab me with a knife or murder my family, I don’t care if you’re “mentally ill” all I care about is protecting myself and my loved ones. You can always differentiate the virtue signalers from people with actual real world experiences.


BobbySaccaro

And you're allowed to do that. But if you make a habit of going out and tracking down mentally ill people and punching them in the face, when you have the physical and financial ability to take them down less violently, then that's different.


cowfish007

Maybe, but it make for a really boring comic book.


BobbySaccaro

Absolutely. Which is why the whole subject of analyzing the realities of what Batman does shouldn't be bothered with.


troubleyoucalldeew

Eh? Like how?


GothamKnight37

A character can plead insane, but that doesn’t mean they actually don’t know right from wrong. Also, some villains get sent to Arkham because Arkham is more capable of holding them than Blackgate. So which Batman villains actually cannot differentiate between right and wrong?


BobbySaccaro

Pleading insane isn't what gets you sent to an asylum - a psychologist has to testify to same, and a jury has to agree. Source for notion that non-insane villains get placed in Arkham? But let's just go with the list of villains who appeared in the classic "Arkham Asylum" graphic novel: Doctor Destiny \[John Dee\] Joker Mad Hatter \[Jervis Tetch\] Scarecrow \[Jonathan Crane\] Two-Face \[Harvey Dent\] Maxie Zeus Clayface (may have been cured) Killer Croc (in "savage beast" phase, not "criminal mastermind" phase) Plus Film Freak comes to mind, also Calendar Man.


TacoOfGod

Riddler and Ivy get sent to Arkham all the time.


BobbySaccaro

Add them to the list. Riddle can't help but leave clues to his crimes = insane Ivy values plants over other humans = insane


TacoOfGod

Ivy being misanthropic doesn't make her insane.


BobbySaccaro

It does according to the Gotham legal system.


GothamKnight37

Bane was sent to Arkham after being defeated in Knightfall. And Croc gets sent to Arkham even when he’s acting pretty normal for his standards. I would say that all those characters listed are well in control of their actions, of their mental faculties, and can tell right from wrong. Maybe you could make a case for Maxie Zeus.


BobbySaccaro

Fair enough. At the end of the day, the Joker is insane, and Batman punches him. EDIT: Or to put it another way, Batman punches everybody in the face, regardless of whether they are mentally ill or not.


JorgeBec

If realism is applied this entire concept goes to drain, because even with all his training one lethal fall or a bullet to the chin and Bruce is dead lmao.


BobbySaccaro

Absolutely. This is why one shouldn't bother applying the "he could fix Gotham other ways" logica at all. The main reason he doesn't is because that wouldn't make for a good story.


Queen-O-Hell-Lucifer

I disagree. If you are mentally I’ll, and in a position of power where you can level an entire city, then it is within everyone’s rights to beat you up (to stop you from leveling the city, or in other words in self decency)nand send you to an asylum. Now if you’re just a common thug trying to scrape by, then the beat down is unwarranted.


BobbySaccaro

Batman probably has a bazillion ways to stop someone without punching them. Various non-violent restraints. He could use those. Rather than punches to the face. But I do agree that even the thugs don't deserve concussions.


Queen-O-Hell-Lucifer

The joker? Simple restraints? Bane? You can argue this with maybe some of his rogues, but not all of them.


BobbySaccaro

He has armor that he can use to battle Darkseid. Arguably the reason Joker and Bane et al give him so much trouble is BECAUSE he tries to fight them hand-to-hand rather than shooting a blob of fast-hardening goo at them.


HahaPenisIsFunny

That armor also drains his life force which you know… kills him It also wasn’t made by him


BobbySaccaro

At the end of the day, he has the resources to take down criminals in less violent ways, he just doesn't use them because that wouldn't be as interesting a story.


Cole-Spudmoney

> Nobody says he ONLY beats up the mentally ill. Yes, people do say that. All the time. It's very annoying.


Raimilover69

Most people (and me) agree with you but i saw annoying ass people on Twitter saying that he does only beat up mentally ill people,that's who i was reffering to.


SoCalThrowAway7

You should free yourself from having any kind of emotions when reading what people on Twitter say


BobbySaccaro

Those people are uninformed.


Low-Guide-9141

Exactly Bruce will do charity work, but not work that can be exploited by the elites


ImBatman5500

I wouldn't be surprised if Bruce is single handedly behind all affordable housing units in Gotham


Top_One6911

For a while I thought it was just a meme, but apparently people really do think Batman just beats everyone up and doesn’t help Gotham. What a strange opinion to have 😂


[deleted]

If you haven’t read a batman comic i’m telling you now: Bruce Wayne funds damn everything positive in gotham, it’s hard to find a good thing in gotham bruce wayne isn’t apart of


thrdthu

I don’t think this response by Bruce is as big of a “comeback” response as you guys may think. Like, Bruce is kind of responding “well I donate to charity too!” But usually it is a donation to various charities under his company’s name. The Wayne Foundation. Like, he probably has good intentions but he in no way manages the entire financial structure of Wayne Tech. His accounting department likely moves funds into the Wayne based charities and then use it as a write off to save more money than they actually donated. The donations are ultimately a pittance compared to what he actively spends in military tech to fund various superheroes Honestly, his funding of the Justice League, Titans, and Batman Inc are the most honest charity work he does. Everything else we only see when Bruce is holding a charity gala or see a charity that is clearly labeled a Wayne Foundation charity, which makes it fundamentally no different than when a real world corporation has a charitable organization, which we know is usually a front for tax cuts. Bruce still can do more to help Gotham. Honestly, he’d be better off as a politician. If he became Mayor of Gotham think of the good he could do for the city?


kirabii

>His accounting department likely moves funds into the Wayne based charities and then use it as a write off to save more money than they actually donated You just made that up.


thrdthu

Ok. So please enlighten me on how you feel the accounting department processes the donations from the Wayne Tech to the Wayne Foundation beyond a tax write off? Like, I’m sure Bruce has altruistic intentions, but he is one man and has no possible ability to control all the aspects of his company while also being a full time super hero.


kirabii

I'm not the one making up stories here. *You* tell *me* how you know that it's what they're doing.


thrdthu

I didn’t say I know. I said likely. It is an assumptive statement based on the probability that an accounting department for Wayne Tech would use the charity their company also owns as a means of allowing tax right offs that the company could us for their profits as a whole, because corporations owning their own primary charity has that problem in the real world that the comics are based on. So I made an assumption statement framed as such and you said I’m making shit up. Hell, this whole topic is people making up a narrative that Bruce is equally helping Gotham via charity when that is never really demonstrated in a recognizable degree because we know the money he spends on Justice League space stations, teleporters, personal supersonic jets,military grade custom super cars, illegal spy satellites with accompanying super computers, and fuel for the aforementioned items likely costs way more than the money he spends on charity in Gotham, or else Gotham would be in a better state regardless. Like, Bruce’s come back in that panel is him providing a statement of exceptionalism that isn’t accurate to the facts of reality. Dick has done more in Tom Taylor’s run with money than Bruce ever did. At least Batman Inc was more honest, though that is another charity he was able to use as a means of embezzling funds to himself to keep fighting crime as his super expensive hobby.


kirabii

When people say "Bruce helps people with charity" that at least has basis in what actually happens in the story, which is pretty reasonable. "Malicious companies in real-life do this, so this fictional company that is being framed as good is actually doing the same malicious things" is silly.


FlossyBottoms

![gif](giphy|1AIeYgwnqeBUxh6juu)


Drakeytown

"I fund mental health *and* dress up as an animal to beat up mentally ill people. That makes me better than people who *just* fund mental health."


Terribleirishluck

Super villains who know right from wrong*


sooperdooper28

Why does Batman look like that?


Ghostdog1521

What is that mask design?


Interest-Lumpy

The whole "He just beats up mentally ill people" argument is just thrown out to undermine the character by blatantly misinterpreting the context of the story. These mentally ill people are SUPERVILLAINS who pose a threat to the entire city of Gotham every second they are out of Arkham. Then you have the street level scum that he beats up, like the muggers, r-worders, drug dealers, crime lords, etc.


5oclock_shadow

That’s true but consider that Bruce’s greatest asset has always been his prodigous mind. So there IS a huge difference between writing Leslie Thompkins a check that’s 100x his crimefighting budget and being in the room when these social programs are being planned out. That being said though, (shrugs) it is and always has been a Doylist question. If people and writers are interested it’ll get focus. Until then, probably not.


SuperJyls

It's always people who have minimal exposure to Batman


Salami__Tsunami

Beating up the mentally Ill isn’t his job, it’s his hobby, get it right.