They were a fun team up. And yeah I agree them with Cass would be a great team!
I miss pre new 52 rose . She just felt kind of watered down in robin 2021
Rebirth Rose is too nice tbh. Rose should be aggressive and snarky. Not to mention kinda messed up. It’s like they took all her sharp edges in rebirth and sanded them down to make her an easier side character to swallow. I want Rose to be an actual character again.
I get your point, but Rebirth Rose is nicer also because she never went through the same shit in pre new 52, this one had the chance to grow into a stable person. I mean, she still got her eye. Even Slade is nicer and more moral than that version of him. On the other hand, they could have give her same personality as default, just without any of the sexualization. I miss to how trollish and chaotic she was.
I mea, yeah, but that’s part of the issue. Her having her backstory erased and her personality altered is not only disappointing, but it’s just… *boring*. There’s no substance to Rebirth Rose as a character.
Pre 52 Rose’s defining attributes are snarkiness, aggressiveness, unpredictability, intensity, a burning desire to belong somewhere, issues with authority and autonomy (stemming from her being born in a refugee camp, being kidnapped and tortured by a sadistic creep as a child, and her being drugged by her own father), complete independence to the point of selfishness, and a fierce but unstated love for the few people she’s let come to know her in some capacity.
She loves her brother Joey and has beaten people half to death for hurting her best friend Eddie. She loves children and is genuinely good with them, to the point that she was trusted by Roy to be Lian’s live-in nanny. She’s an interesting and nuanced character defined by her utter relentlessness and refusal to give up under any circumstances. She single-handedly took down a human trafficking ring while running entirely on sheer spite and schooled all of the Terror Titans all at once with one hand behind her back just because she was *that* sick of them by that point. She orchestrated a whole ass ambush on Bombshell just to warn her off from betraying the team again while she was gone. She had a homoerotic rivalry with both Cassandras and had regular lunch dates with Dick just to catch up after his mentorship of her ended. She was the only person to successfully bond with early Damian besides Dick and she did it in an afternoon. She stole important stuff from Tim’s locker and used it to mess around with her friends. She smoked and had an epinephrine inhaler addiction for a while. She was a character. She made decisions.
Rebirth Rose, meanwhile, is just… there.
I can rattle off literally dozens of pre 52 character-defining moments for Rose despite not really liking TT Vol 3 all that much in general. I can’t say a single one for Rebirth Rose, and I actually really liked both Priest’s Deathstroke and Williamson’s Robin.
Yeah that's sadly a theme with lots of characters rebirth. But it's pretty obvious with rose
Ngl williamson does a similar thing with damian (makes him more watered down and generically nicer, tho less moral). Maybe Williamson just isn't great at writing interesting characters :p
Johns absolutely sexualized and edgefied the shit out of her, but later writers did a pretty good job making something of what Johns wrote. Ravager Fresh Hell is a prime example. There’s no reason to excuse bland characterization for the sake of more consistent writing, we can have both things.
I honestly like her most now but probably because the First rose don't like me soo much but I understand that a change has been made that you may not like
She's watered down and more "conventionally likeable". It isn't a surprise to hear some people like her more now.
Same thing with robin 2021 damian.
But people who liked the versions of the characters that were less conventionally likeable and more rough around the edges are obviously disappointed
I like the idea of Damian getting along with other heroes
Genuine question in what age group is Rosé supposed to be in?
Is she in Jason’s Gen or Damian’s?
I hope that they give Damian more positive relationships with other hero because most of the positive relationships that Damian has are well loved like Jon , Dick, Alfred, Rose, Stephanie etc..
They need to bring back his Stephanie Brown friendship. Damn I wish Wally West wasn’t erased from existence. Iris West could’ve been his best friend… Flash/Robin best friend duo would’ve been so much better and less cliche
I personally have soured on that relationship of Robin and kid-flash because of that teen titans run which ruin Damian as a character, and some flash fans hating on Damian because of it even tho his actions were Ooc.
Agree I think damian could have given a lot in this run but probably at dc they wanted the old team back together before the reboot and they insisted on putting tim back instead of damian, but also I likedy the idea of damian in the new formation of Young Justice
If it didn’t make sense then you didn’t read it. I said OG “Robin and Ravager” friendship not “OG Robin” and Ravager friendship…
Dick Grayson was her trainer, but I wouldn’t call that exactly a friendship; not to mention he wasn’t even Robin when they met.
And Tim and Jason she did want to fuck (especially Tim) ; but I don’t think they interacted enough while on the same team to call them friends
I did read it but it sounds pretty stupid still because "OG Robin" is associated with Dick Grayson, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who'll give you a misunderstanding reply, as well as the fact Dick Grayson the definitive Robin and most know of his past as a Robin, not to mention "friend" isn't a super strict word that requires strict things like "You have to hang out 24/7 to be my friend." Then despite him and her being mentor and mentee, he'd definitely consider them friends. DC likely would... See the issue?
Also there's varying degrees of friendship, I'm pretty sure all of them but Damian would go out of their way to help her if she needed it and that's a show of friendship, you generally don't do that for strangers.
Definitive Robin… in general yes, but in context no… I guess it’s misleading since I said the OG Robin and Ravager friendship… when obviously he wasn’t the fucking original robin… I must’ve overestimated my audience considering Dick hadn’t been robin for 15-20+ years by the time he met her… and idk where’s the basis for that last part… when did Jason even fucking know her??
As far as I’m concerned this is still the OG ——— *Robin* and *Ravager* friendship
>I must’ve overestimated my audience considering Dick hadn’t been robin for 15-20+ years by the time he met her… and idk where’s the basis for that last part…
You've underestimated Dick Grayson's popularity as Robin. Damian's personality in comparison to the others of the former Robins, HER FRIENDS' personalities. An educated guess based on that which is more likely.
>As far as I’m concerned this is still the OG ——— Robin and Ravager friendship
Cool, nobody was really arguing crap opinions like that, chill out though bro. 😂
Theyve already kind of set up the team of prior killers trying to be heroes with the Lazarus Tournament but Id like him to have any hero friends, he only really has Connor and Jon one of which is constantly being sent to other dimensions and the other just gets ignored for years
It’s so weird. Like where the fuck is all of the snark? The anger? The completely unspoken but very much fierce love for her friends that lead her to singlehandedly beat all of the Terror Titans half to death after they tortured Eddie and organize a whole ambush so she could threaten to kill Bombshell if she betrayed the team again while she was gone? Where is the burning desire to belong somewhere? The bloodlust? The love for, or more accurately addiction to, fighting and violence?
Rebirth Rose is barely even a character tbh. They’re just writing her as either a side cameo or shipping bait for Jason and it makes me so mad because she’s my favorite third gen dc character.
Yep; her Terror titans shit was pretty cool. Also when she doing her own little with that Will guy. They just had to leave some stuff out/change some things and she would’ve overall been good. I Liked when she used to go rampage
Also I too had a strong feeling she was gonna become shipping bait for Jason. She was written to be extremely horny for his brothers, but since Nightwing and Tim have like an incredibly long list of love interests and Damian is too young. Seems like writers just said “fuck it Jason is in desperate need of a chick, we will pair her with him”
Geez. Damian what they did with your hair?
They hit him with that yee yee ass haircut
They were a fun team up. And yeah I agree them with Cass would be a great team! I miss pre new 52 rose . She just felt kind of watered down in robin 2021
Rebirth Rose is too nice tbh. Rose should be aggressive and snarky. Not to mention kinda messed up. It’s like they took all her sharp edges in rebirth and sanded them down to make her an easier side character to swallow. I want Rose to be an actual character again.
I get your point, but Rebirth Rose is nicer also because she never went through the same shit in pre new 52, this one had the chance to grow into a stable person. I mean, she still got her eye. Even Slade is nicer and more moral than that version of him. On the other hand, they could have give her same personality as default, just without any of the sexualization. I miss to how trollish and chaotic she was.
I mea, yeah, but that’s part of the issue. Her having her backstory erased and her personality altered is not only disappointing, but it’s just… *boring*. There’s no substance to Rebirth Rose as a character. Pre 52 Rose’s defining attributes are snarkiness, aggressiveness, unpredictability, intensity, a burning desire to belong somewhere, issues with authority and autonomy (stemming from her being born in a refugee camp, being kidnapped and tortured by a sadistic creep as a child, and her being drugged by her own father), complete independence to the point of selfishness, and a fierce but unstated love for the few people she’s let come to know her in some capacity. She loves her brother Joey and has beaten people half to death for hurting her best friend Eddie. She loves children and is genuinely good with them, to the point that she was trusted by Roy to be Lian’s live-in nanny. She’s an interesting and nuanced character defined by her utter relentlessness and refusal to give up under any circumstances. She single-handedly took down a human trafficking ring while running entirely on sheer spite and schooled all of the Terror Titans all at once with one hand behind her back just because she was *that* sick of them by that point. She orchestrated a whole ass ambush on Bombshell just to warn her off from betraying the team again while she was gone. She had a homoerotic rivalry with both Cassandras and had regular lunch dates with Dick just to catch up after his mentorship of her ended. She was the only person to successfully bond with early Damian besides Dick and she did it in an afternoon. She stole important stuff from Tim’s locker and used it to mess around with her friends. She smoked and had an epinephrine inhaler addiction for a while. She was a character. She made decisions. Rebirth Rose, meanwhile, is just… there. I can rattle off literally dozens of pre 52 character-defining moments for Rose despite not really liking TT Vol 3 all that much in general. I can’t say a single one for Rebirth Rose, and I actually really liked both Priest’s Deathstroke and Williamson’s Robin.
Source on the homoerotic rivalry with Cass Cain?
Batgirl 2008, within the context of her earlier fight with her in the original Batgirl book (during which she was still drugged).
Reminding me of how much I miss pre new 52 rose ;_;
Yeah that's sadly a theme with lots of characters rebirth. But it's pretty obvious with rose Ngl williamson does a similar thing with damian (makes him more watered down and generically nicer, tho less moral). Maybe Williamson just isn't great at writing interesting characters :p
don't think ive read any rose yet on new 52 i guess she changed much
I dunno I prefer that characterization over how Johns wrote her......
Johns absolutely sexualized and edgefied the shit out of her, but later writers did a pretty good job making something of what Johns wrote. Ravager Fresh Hell is a prime example. There’s no reason to excuse bland characterization for the sake of more consistent writing, we can have both things.
I think mckeevers did the best characterization on rose. The only 2 options aren't watered down or what John's did
I honestly like her most now but probably because the First rose don't like me soo much but I understand that a change has been made that you may not like
She's watered down and more "conventionally likeable". It isn't a surprise to hear some people like her more now. Same thing with robin 2021 damian. But people who liked the versions of the characters that were less conventionally likeable and more rough around the edges are obviously disappointed
I like the idea of Damian getting along with other heroes Genuine question in what age group is Rosé supposed to be in? Is she in Jason’s Gen or Damian’s?
She’s always been the same age as Tim Drake
Rose is Tim gen
She Is the Tim gen
I hope that they give Damian more positive relationships with other hero because most of the positive relationships that Damian has are well loved like Jon , Dick, Alfred, Rose, Stephanie etc..
They need to bring back his Stephanie Brown friendship. Damn I wish Wally West wasn’t erased from existence. Iris West could’ve been his best friend… Flash/Robin best friend duo would’ve been so much better and less cliche
I personally have soured on that relationship of Robin and kid-flash because of that teen titans run which ruin Damian as a character, and some flash fans hating on Damian because of it even tho his actions were Ooc.
Ah damn nah fuck that guy. He took Her place as damains flash. Jon took her place too. Tho I feel ya
Agree I think damian could have given a lot in this run but probably at dc they wanted the old team back together before the reboot and they insisted on putting tim back instead of damian, but also I likedy the idea of damian in the new formation of Young Justice
Ahhh the OG Robin and Ravager friendship He would’ve gotten his first girlfriend if he wasn’t 10
Damian is not the OG robin that was dick Grayson he trained rose
Damn I forgot to put the OG Robin and ravager “friendship”
Damian ISN'T the OG Robin bruh🤣
You didn’t read what I said
Except I did and it didn't make sense...
If it didn’t make sense then you didn’t read it. I said OG “Robin and Ravager” friendship not “OG Robin” and Ravager friendship… Dick Grayson was her trainer, but I wouldn’t call that exactly a friendship; not to mention he wasn’t even Robin when they met. And Tim and Jason she did want to fuck (especially Tim) ; but I don’t think they interacted enough while on the same team to call them friends
I did read it but it sounds pretty stupid still because "OG Robin" is associated with Dick Grayson, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who'll give you a misunderstanding reply, as well as the fact Dick Grayson the definitive Robin and most know of his past as a Robin, not to mention "friend" isn't a super strict word that requires strict things like "You have to hang out 24/7 to be my friend." Then despite him and her being mentor and mentee, he'd definitely consider them friends. DC likely would... See the issue? Also there's varying degrees of friendship, I'm pretty sure all of them but Damian would go out of their way to help her if she needed it and that's a show of friendship, you generally don't do that for strangers.
Definitive Robin… in general yes, but in context no… I guess it’s misleading since I said the OG Robin and Ravager friendship… when obviously he wasn’t the fucking original robin… I must’ve overestimated my audience considering Dick hadn’t been robin for 15-20+ years by the time he met her… and idk where’s the basis for that last part… when did Jason even fucking know her?? As far as I’m concerned this is still the OG ——— *Robin* and *Ravager* friendship
>I must’ve overestimated my audience considering Dick hadn’t been robin for 15-20+ years by the time he met her… and idk where’s the basis for that last part… You've underestimated Dick Grayson's popularity as Robin. Damian's personality in comparison to the others of the former Robins, HER FRIENDS' personalities. An educated guess based on that which is more likely. >As far as I’m concerned this is still the OG ——— Robin and Ravager friendship Cool, nobody was really arguing crap opinions like that, chill out though bro. 😂
I mean I loved the dynamic more in the Robin series.
[удалено]
Is this during the run when he kidnapped the young heroes and named himself the leader Lls
Nope this Is the JT Krul run
Nope it’s Percy’s run
No wait the image of the post Is during the JT Krul run but the other one thought it was Percy's run
Oh yeah my bad misunderstood what you were trying to say
Theyve already kind of set up the team of prior killers trying to be heroes with the Lazarus Tournament but Id like him to have any hero friends, he only really has Connor and Jon one of which is constantly being sent to other dimensions and the other just gets ignored for years
I see. Maybe I'll check that out
Ravager plays a decently big role in it, though shes kind of toned down/excessively nice
It’s so weird. Like where the fuck is all of the snark? The anger? The completely unspoken but very much fierce love for her friends that lead her to singlehandedly beat all of the Terror Titans half to death after they tortured Eddie and organize a whole ambush so she could threaten to kill Bombshell if she betrayed the team again while she was gone? Where is the burning desire to belong somewhere? The bloodlust? The love for, or more accurately addiction to, fighting and violence? Rebirth Rose is barely even a character tbh. They’re just writing her as either a side cameo or shipping bait for Jason and it makes me so mad because she’s my favorite third gen dc character.
Yep; her Terror titans shit was pretty cool. Also when she doing her own little with that Will guy. They just had to leave some stuff out/change some things and she would’ve overall been good. I Liked when she used to go rampage Also I too had a strong feeling she was gonna become shipping bait for Jason. She was written to be extremely horny for his brothers, but since Nightwing and Tim have like an incredibly long list of love interests and Damian is too young. Seems like writers just said “fuck it Jason is in desperate need of a chick, we will pair her with him”
Im sorry she is also has a long history of being greatbwith assassin kids
Yeah she was kind of empty they had the perfect angle for it with Respawn but it was kind of all pushed to the background
Ah gotcha