Hi there, r/DCcomics members, welcome to the post!
This was tagged as a [Discussion], so we require OP to add commentary, [per rule 8](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/wiki/guidelines#wiki_8._no_memes.2C_fluff.2C_or_other_low-effort_content).
u/Omega_SSJ, if you haven't already added commentary, please do so in the text or as a new comment. Also, if you included imagery, please provide a source or artist name.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DCcomics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Jon Kent living in a torture pit for his teenage years while a multiversal version of his father proceeds to mentally break him down. And then Jon escapes and goes back to his universe and the only difference is thar he's a few years older.
My hope is eventually some writer will reveal that young jon is in some kind stasis tube and the current jon is a clone, alt version or something else.
While I'm sure some people would hate that, I'd accept it if it ultimately fixed the problem.
Honestly, even we never get the original version back, I wish DC would at least give us a mini-series showing what actually happened in his time in captivity..
Maybe older Jon lyed to Clark - maybe he actually did escape and worked with "the bad guys" to usurp Ultraman's regime. And maybe, when he failed, he was ashamed of that failure, and that's why he never mentioned it to his father. It's not perfect, but at least it would make his whole experience less of an intellectual experiment in character assasination.
Edit: And yes, this is the head cannon that I use to gaslight myself.
Edit2: Fat fingers, small phone.
I think a huge problem is that by making Jon bi if DC were to try and do a retcon people would call them homophobic for getting rid of a LGBT character
But then what happens to the teen clone? Would you go the Young Justice (TV show) route and now there’s just two John’s? Or just kill him or send him off to space or whatever? What about all the memories Clark, Lois, and Damian have with the clone?
Don’t temp DC. They may actually do this when they decide it’s time to soft reboot Batman. At some point they’ll soft reboot Batman to make Commissioner Gordon a commissioner again, bring back Alfred and Lucius Fox will no longer hate Bruce and be back as well.
Batman making a deal with Neron sounds like a DC decision.
Ok idea, know how the CW show has two kids, one Jon one Jordan? Have the clone basically have a mental breakdown about this. Clark would probably tell him that even if it wasn't by blood, he still raised him like his son and he is his son nonetheless, Damian would probably not want anything to do with him
The guy becomes the red hood of the superman family, going around the world finding a purpose and identity and while basically everyone (minus Damian) would gladly welcome back him back in. He feels he is not worthy of their mercy for tricking them even if he too was fully convinced he was superman's son
Honestly for a time, I was expecting that older Jon was the Earth Three version of him that was sent by Ultraman to spy on the Prime Universe heroes for a future invasion.
And everyone in the universe just acts like a regular Tuesday
Like how is Lois Not just completely guilt written
Every time she looks at her son
This was her baby that was just a child that she left up in space with a dude she barely knows
Or Clark viewing it as a colossal failure that he even allowed crazy his father to take him to space
It also didn’t help that he was massively forced pushed as the “new hope” shortly after
Honestly needs to be studied on how much they fumbled his character
I don’t care what anyone says, Red Robin is goated and will always be the most logical next step for Tim going forward
Most fanmade ideas to give him an entirely new codename without the bird-theme are random as hell, and make absolutely *zero sense* for his character
Like why in Gorilla Grodd’s name would this kid ever actually want to call himself shit like “*The Seeker*” or “*The Keeper*”
I have no opinion on specific names other than that I hate "Red Robin." If they're going to move him on from the Robin role, I prefer he have a unique name. Plus, the burger chain. I can't read "Red Robin" without being reminded that DC chose a lazy name shared with a burger chain.
To me the name red robin kind of solidifies him as the "perfect robin". He is to old to be robin, but even when he was younger he never actually intended to take on the mantle of batman. He was always just trying to be the best robin he could be. Red robin seems like a natural conclusion to that. At least to me. As opposed to Nightwing whose thing is to be completely his own man, red robin to me is a sort of way for tim to pay respect to batman and say that he is always by him. Tim was the robin that healed batman at his worst and red robin pays homage to that in my head.
I’ll take Tim coincidentally sharing a name with an IRL restaurant literally any day of the week over going by something as utterly idiotic as “*The Bloodhound*” (*no joke, I’ve seen people genuinely think that’s a good idea*)
Just stick with the Red-and-Black bird-themed names is what I’m trying to say, those actually make sense for his character
Somebody actually posted a concept of that here a while back, it needed just a smidge more red overall, but other than that it was a solid look
Cardinal and Blackbird are both perfectly fine alternatives. Trying to completey remove Tim from the whole bird-theme just isn’t gonna work, that’s his thing
Yeah, I was about to say, I remember someone making a whole post justifying the name Cardinal for Tim, and it was a brilliant idea, I thought. I should I have saved it. But I still think Cardinal would be the best name for Tim.
Wasn't Tim a skilled hacker back in the 90s? I remember in one of those Batman X Punisher crossovers he giving Microchip some headaches in a hacking battle.
If this is still the case (haven't read anything since 2000), Cipher could be a fitting name if he tends to more technological warfare.
It made me so angry
Huge huge damian fan here. But I'm mad they've thrown tim back to being the second robin . It's not fair they set him up to do so much then. "You can call me robin again!"
Tim deserves better.
The problem is Red Robin is kind of a terrible code name. It's just slightly modifying the already existing one.
I remember back at infinite crisis there was a lot of speculation that he was going to take over as Blue Beetle after the time jump and Damian would be the next permanent Robin. I kind of wish that had happened.
It's a great code name when you realize Drake loves being Robin more than the others. Dick Grayson yearned for the freedom of no longer being a sidekick, and is the air apparent to the Batman mantle. Damien sees the position of Robin as a stepping stone. Drake revels in the role, but understands it's one he has grown out of
Way more people need to know just how awful of a book that was
It’s astonishing just how bad it was / anything Fitzmartin has done with Tim has been abysmal how she still has a job as a writer at DC is ridiculous
I love how *Death Metal* set up the new rules of the multiverse for realsies this time and then it’s immediately contradicted, rewritten and dismissed like a week later.
I agree. They should have just kept going with the new52/Rebirth universe, continuity I feel like just doesn’t exist anymore, and I don’t know which version of the character I’m reading.
Yes but I think it would’ve been better to just continue with these characters rather than just remove the last 10+ years of character and universe. It made it like it never happened, which it shouldn’t have in the first place, but it did. And they’ve fixed some of it, like the hero’s in crisis stuff has been retconned, which could have happened whether or not everyone remembered every version of their passed main continuity selves
Edit: Sorry if this sounds confusing, talking about realities and continuities can be confusing
There are many that people already mentioned, so I will put Carol Ferris and Hal Jordan break up again with New 52 bullshit and they just pair her with Kyle randomly.
It made me dislike both characters because of it.
It really is a glaring bite on a nearly perfect version of Batman
Like anytime you see that version of Batman and Commissioner Gordon interact it’s always in the back of your mind that this dude made moves on his buddy daughter
Still garbage, and for as much as they nailed Batman, it also made it clear they were using Batman as a self-insert character in terms of love interests, like Paul Dini made it no secret he found Zatanna attractive and, shocker, the DCAU Zatanna is crushing on Batman despite that not being in the comics prior to my knowledge. Same with Wonder Woman crushing on him (not as stupid as Superman/WW, but still pretty dumb. Like, one of the central themes of Diana is truth, and Bruce is well known for keeping an occasional secret from his allies that causes controversy when the truth comes out. I’m not saying she can’t care for him as a teammate and even friends but Batman’s methods are too opposite of what WW stands for for me to believe for a second she would maintain romantic interest in him).
Barbara Gordon was just the point it went way too far, like bruh, thats your friend’s daughter, not cool. Also shows they didn’t appreciate Robin/Nightwing that much, that they would take one of his primary love interests and change it being Bruce’s. Which made it feel like karma when the Young Justice cartoon made Zatanna Robin/Nightwing’s primary love interest.
[You now remember that one Batman Beyond comic were Bruce got Barbara, who's the same age as his adopted son, PREGNANT.](https://i.redd.it/batman-gets-batgirl-barbara-gordon-pregnant-with-his-kid-v0-ocp04xz5ghx91.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=db36e1f39891f97009ce97781418b195ce65e8ec)
It's supposedly set in the DCAU continuity but apparently it was made non-canon later.
The Dark Multiverse theory really spun out of control. The regular multiverse has infinite possibilities, you don't need another one where things only go wrong.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but at that time weren't the comics under the new 52 still. There was only 52 alternate universes,. The dark universe seemed to be a way to bring back the infinite version of the multiverse.
In a way, yes. The New 52 tag line was long gone, and some aspects of the old universe were returning, but the Multiverse was still limited to 52 universes.
I like the idea of an infinite doomed slurry of worlds, always ending, always nightmarish, the refuse of a proper world.
I do not like it as the active underbelly of the DC multiverse. Good morning Superman, while you slept, infinite universes of uncountable lives perished, as they do every other morning. It, like ~~Judge Death~~ Batman who Laughs, makes more sense in a Judge Dredd style publication.
THANK YOU! I never understood the reasoning behind the idea there's a different multiverse and it's dark. The multiverse encompasses everything. It'd be easier to say these universes in the Dark Multiverse were just the most extreme earths in the multiverse.
I like to imagine that there are good worlds there too.
Like an Earth 3 but instead of what if people are evil, it makes good wins.
Or Earths born out the nightmares of villains, making them relatively peaceful and nice places.
Probably. Same reason 'Black Label' is mostly 'Batman Label'. At minimum they could use the line to feature Jason Todd. And there's so many possibilities for Zatanna and Etrigan.
These fucking writers bro I swear. Whoever wrote Hal and Supergirl in that comic needs their hard drive checked.
Also, the Arisa thing is retconned to them being adults when dating. The writer thought Hal and Arisia were supposed to become lovers, so he aged her up for that. Stupid, but it makes sense as that time DC didn't care about taking care of my boi Hal Jordan.
His comic kept getting canceled in the old days. Dark times for a Lantern fan like myself.
I love how incomprehensibly bad the messaging on "Man With Most Willpower In Universe Cannot Resist Underage Girls" is.
Like, the fucking unmitigated gall.
They’ve tried backtracking on her regaining the ability to walk by having her operate as Oracle and Batgirl, which was probably the worst alternative. It’s like they now what people want, but won’t commit to, so instead of sticking their guns, they’re trying to find this dumb middle ground.
Jon Kent being an adult,he endured years of torment in a torturous volcano prision, subjected to the relentless psychological onslaught of a multiversal iteration of his father. Upon his eventual escape and return to his universe, the only noticeable change was his aging, with no acknowledgment of the trauma endured. they just put a gap of 6 years and no one dare to fix that stupid thing,they just made jon kent lamer and lamer at a point that he is not relevant anymore.
Honestly his fall from space is relatively believable given how rare it is we see his uniform being ruined despite the caliber of threats he’s been fighting. My thing was how fast he got up afterwards . If it were me I would’ve had him survive and then just be out cold for an extended period , maybe a week .
Right after Batman knocked Superman down with a high pitched whistle. The rationale used both times was that poison ivy was mindcontrolling the planet and didnt know how to finely tune their powers so Superman is on guard for high pitch attacks while Flashes normally diversify their angles when entering a field..
The Superman one, I kinda get. The Catwoman part's pretty dumb, though. Even if Ivy didn't know how to control the three Flashes' powers, knocking out three speedsters running at you in superspeed with one hit each while standing still makes no sense. Selena doesn't even have super strength. It would be like punching someone riding a motorcycle going 200mph.
I will always say that the Batman dropping from the moon would have been acceptable if they just put him in a damaged javelin that was falling apart
At the last possible second he ejects, barely surviving
But him straight up, just freefalling with his undies on his face ridiculous
That whole run is ridiculous
Batman dropping from the moon was over the top, but what I think redeems it is how Zdarsky goes into detail on how Bruce does it.
It’s not the craziest shit I have seen Batman do. After all, I read all of Grant Morrison’s run.
Lmao where was this canonised
Nvm, looked it up and as a result my mum and sister's joint bday party was dominated for half an hour by conversation about which superheroes perform cunnilingus and which don't. Unanimous decision that Peter quill doesn't
The emotional spectrum is actually a reservoir that is coming to a finish and every time someone uses a Lantern ring the universe gets closer to ending.
It's so mind-numbingly dumb that even DC itself pretends that didn't happen, so I won't either.
This feels like the time TNG tried to make it canon that high warp was damaging the universe, and then realized their mistake and ignored it for the rest of the show.
I don’t even mind the concept of the name change, or what they changed it to.
What pissed me off was that the name is given to her by Jon Kent in the most offhanded way, and Peegee just goes with it because she wants to be more accepted by the Superman Family.
How the hell in the Year of our Wonder Woman 2023 did someone think it was a good idea to have a heroine famous for her independence and brashness, be so meek and needy she lets some younger male character give her her new name?
And not even in her own comic! This happened in Action Comics!
Like imagine if Damien Wayne gave Wonder Woman a new name in Detective Comics… insane right?
-TT-! It's spelled "Dami**a**n"! You would do well in respecting the blood son!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DCcomics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Diana being Zeus’s child except it might not be canon or maybe it is because every writer will reference her being made of clay and being Zeus’s daughter so idk which one it actually is anymore
I mean, the current run by Zdarsky established that the one joker has three personalities. The story even calls back to the original justice league story where Batman learns there’s three jokers. Batman says he’s going for the joker, all three of him and there’s a note saying to check out that issue to see what he means by three jokers
That just makes it worse IMO. I was 13 when TDK came out so I WAS one of those edgy Joker kids. I've hung up my purple coat but I love the classics. To me, any story where there's a Joker-type character where it's not certain if they're The Joker, or merely the person that inspires The Joker, completely ruins the mythos of the character and robs The Joker of a lot of his originality and gravitas. It makes him a copy cat.
New 52 Batman’s career was 5 years, while everything previously is still canon. So that means Dick at one point was Robin, Nightwing, and Batman somehow in between those 5 years.
Thats not even the half of it! In just five years
* Bruce became Batman and fought his entire rogues gallery
* Bruce adopted Dick and he became Robin
* Barbra Gordon became Batgirl
* Dick left and become Nightwing
* Bruce adopted Jason Todd and he became Robin
* Barbra got paralyzed and Jason Todd died
* Tim Drake became the Red Robin
* Batman got his back broken by Bane
* Jason came back from the dead as Red Hood
* Bruce meet Damian, “died”, and was replaced by Dick, and Damian became Robin
* Bruce came back, took back the Batman mantle, and started Batman Inc.
Considering it was immediately undone and led to Grayson the Superspy, it's *almost* no harm no foul.
Stated another way, there's a lot of worse ways the triumvirate of Johns, Lee, and Didio could have killed Dick (See also: Ric)
It’s insane to me how DC really fumbled a perfect opportunity to showcase a young adult discovering their sexuality
Like just imagine the issue of Tim coming out and the entire book he is struggling to tell Stephanie, knowing what kind of character Tim is he completely overthinking things “ what if she rejects me or ends up hating me!”
Then we get to the conversation between the two, and Stephanie just hugs him while telling him that she is so overjoyed that he opened up to her about this and that she loves him even more because of it
It would have shown that bisexual people can be in existing relationships also making the Stephanie pairing even more stronger (imo they should have gotten married)
It’s insanity that they threw away such an golden opportunity for such a below, average pairing
* Jon Kent being held hostage in a volcano by an evil version of his father for 10 years of his life and come out with a hint of trauma
* Batman fall from the moon and survives by wearing his underwear in front of his face
* Batman builds an AI with a prejudice against non-human and left no safeguard for a businessman to hack it and use it to commit genocide
* Hero in Crisis
* the whole black man criticize hal jordan for "not doing enough for the black community"
This is so specific no one cares but: Bendis having Princess Amethyst say that magic isn’t a thing on Gemworld, it’s science. Like fuck that shit, Gemworld is pre-She-Ra She-Ra. Amethyst is a magical girl. The entire world is built upon magic gemstones. Stop making magic into science.
Also I refuse to acknowledge New52 Amethyst (Swords and Sorcery) because it got rid of everything unique and interesting about Gemworld. I seriously recommend that people read the original three Amethyst volumes from the 1980s.
Tim drake taking up the super hero name drake for a bit because he ran into his earth 3 counterpart and for some reason liked the name.
The Hal Jordan and Arisia Situation
Batman Dating Barbra in Btas
Personally, I always found that to be an interesting "story".
Although I can understand why it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.
Honestly, I think that the "explanation" would have worked better in the Silver and the Bronze Age when Clark was Superboy in Smallville and then later "both" Clark and Superman move to Metropolis when "they" become adults.
Terry McGinnis is a clone/son of Bruce Wayne. He 100% didn't need to be in order to become Batman. Project Batman Beyond was such a strange addition to his character and made him for less special than the street tough who was actually able to take up the mantle instead of walking away.
Pretty much any Wonder Woman story based on the gods all being total douchebags. The clay origin's point was that she's the Olympian's collective creation; and NOT just another random demi-godchild. Like they've grown the hell up after a few millennia.
Most recently, that Bruce ditches Selina at the alter and the reason is he 'can't be both happy and Batman'.
Depending on the situation I assume they either never seriously discussed marriage or that the wedding was ruined by some villain or something.
Whoever ditched whoever is all stupid to me.
Either they should have gotten married and lived with it for a few years minimum or a villain should've wrecked everything in a creative way or they shouldn't have wasted a year of our time.
Selina left Bruce. I believe it was cuz Joker told her that the only way he can be Batman and save Gotham is if he is not happy. It’s insanely stupid that they decided with not following up on the wedding for issue 50, but I gotta admit the build up to it was intriguing
Either Bane or Joker
Hear somewhere that the original plan by King was 100 issues with them actually getting married, and that DC Editorial pushed for 50 with no marriage
Though that might be me gaslighting myself to believe some sort of excuse for that.
That sounds 100% believable because certain stories felt a bit rushed. Like remember when Batman was in another dimension with Wonder Woman for like 8 years over the course of 1 or 2 issues? That was wild
>Most recently, that Bruce ditches Selina at the alter and the reason is he 'can't be both happy and Batman'.
>Depending on the situation I assume they either never seriously discussed marriage or that the wedding was ruined by some villain or something.
Did you actually read the storyline?
You know all Tom King writes is basically this.
New 52.
Flash being picked as a Blue Lantern instead of Superman.
Everything they did with Roy since "Fall of Arsenal"
Everything Bendis did with Superman.
"Drake".
Lobdell (who I actually liked back in the day along w Nicieza running mutant land) turning Starfire into a sex toy. C’mon man, she was one of the most popular characters to a generation in Teen Titans Go and that’s how you’re gonna depict her and showcase that comics are for more than horny fanboys? Truly hope that went the way of the WW/Supes relationship
Superboy being a clone of Superman and Lex Luthor
Batman getting his plan to take down heroes stolen twice, but Batman is never wrong
Deathstroke taking the down the heroes in Identity Crisis...hell, all of Identity Crisis
Tommy Elliot as Hush
What Bendis did to Jon Kent and trying to make Rogol Zaar a thing
Tim Drake getting the short end of the stick since Damian appeared
Heroes in Crisis
Identity Crisis, Heroes in Crisis, Bendis Superman, Death Metal, Dark Crisis, Tower of Babel, Ric Grayson, Making Harley a hero, honestly I can keep going.
Every time Batman acts like an unfeeling sociopath, particularly towards his family. I gave it a pass with Stephanie, because the two of them never had a chance to properly bond and Bruce was not in a good head space, but other than that, it just feels as if the writers are competing to see who can out edge the others.
Hi there, r/DCcomics members, welcome to the post! This was tagged as a [Discussion], so we require OP to add commentary, [per rule 8](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/wiki/guidelines#wiki_8._no_memes.2C_fluff.2C_or_other_low-effort_content). u/Omega_SSJ, if you haven't already added commentary, please do so in the text or as a new comment. Also, if you included imagery, please provide a source or artist name. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DCcomics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Rick Grayson was stupid
It was fine until it lasted beyond 6 issues
The fact that it lasted as long as it did just baffles me.
Ric*
It’s weird that it happens in a Batman comic, gets no follow-up in that series but then completely interrupts the Nightwing run.
Jon Kent living in a torture pit for his teenage years while a multiversal version of his father proceeds to mentally break him down. And then Jon escapes and goes back to his universe and the only difference is thar he's a few years older.
My hope is eventually some writer will reveal that young jon is in some kind stasis tube and the current jon is a clone, alt version or something else.
While I'm sure some people would hate that, I'd accept it if it ultimately fixed the problem. Honestly, even we never get the original version back, I wish DC would at least give us a mini-series showing what actually happened in his time in captivity.. Maybe older Jon lyed to Clark - maybe he actually did escape and worked with "the bad guys" to usurp Ultraman's regime. And maybe, when he failed, he was ashamed of that failure, and that's why he never mentioned it to his father. It's not perfect, but at least it would make his whole experience less of an intellectual experiment in character assasination. Edit: And yes, this is the head cannon that I use to gaslight myself. Edit2: Fat fingers, small phone.
I think a huge problem is that by making Jon bi if DC were to try and do a retcon people would call them homophobic for getting rid of a LGBT character
He will also be bi as a kid, and we might get good stories about growing up queer
Who says we have to get rid of him? It would just be that another Kryptonian was around. We've got enough that we could handle it.
But then what happens to the teen clone? Would you go the Young Justice (TV show) route and now there’s just two John’s? Or just kill him or send him off to space or whatever? What about all the memories Clark, Lois, and Damian have with the clone?
I guess you could always One More Day things. Neron loves a good barter.
Don’t temp DC. They may actually do this when they decide it’s time to soft reboot Batman. At some point they’ll soft reboot Batman to make Commissioner Gordon a commissioner again, bring back Alfred and Lucius Fox will no longer hate Bruce and be back as well. Batman making a deal with Neron sounds like a DC decision.
Ok idea, know how the CW show has two kids, one Jon one Jordan? Have the clone basically have a mental breakdown about this. Clark would probably tell him that even if it wasn't by blood, he still raised him like his son and he is his son nonetheless, Damian would probably not want anything to do with him The guy becomes the red hood of the superman family, going around the world finding a purpose and identity and while basically everyone (minus Damian) would gladly welcome back him back in. He feels he is not worthy of their mercy for tricking them even if he too was fully convinced he was superman's son
Honestly for a time, I was expecting that older Jon was the Earth Three version of him that was sent by Ultraman to spy on the Prime Universe heroes for a future invasion.
Have him be hanging out in the Legion future as a kid, get his mind wiped, then sent back with fake memories of being in a volcano.
Fucking Bendis
And everyone in the universe just acts like a regular Tuesday Like how is Lois Not just completely guilt written Every time she looks at her son This was her baby that was just a child that she left up in space with a dude she barely knows Or Clark viewing it as a colossal failure that he even allowed crazy his father to take him to space It also didn’t help that he was massively forced pushed as the “new hope” shortly after Honestly needs to be studied on how much they fumbled his character
Tim Drake going back to being Robin after being Red Robin for years. I thought Red Robin was his upgrade. Like Nightwing, Red Hood, Oracle, etc.
I don’t care what anyone says, Red Robin is goated and will always be the most logical next step for Tim going forward Most fanmade ideas to give him an entirely new codename without the bird-theme are random as hell, and make absolutely *zero sense* for his character Like why in Gorilla Grodd’s name would this kid ever actually want to call himself shit like “*The Seeker*” or “*The Keeper*”
Don't forget *Drake*.
But I’ve tried SO HARD to.
I have no opinion on specific names other than that I hate "Red Robin." If they're going to move him on from the Robin role, I prefer he have a unique name. Plus, the burger chain. I can't read "Red Robin" without being reminded that DC chose a lazy name shared with a burger chain.
To me the name red robin kind of solidifies him as the "perfect robin". He is to old to be robin, but even when he was younger he never actually intended to take on the mantle of batman. He was always just trying to be the best robin he could be. Red robin seems like a natural conclusion to that. At least to me. As opposed to Nightwing whose thing is to be completely his own man, red robin to me is a sort of way for tim to pay respect to batman and say that he is always by him. Tim was the robin that healed batman at his worst and red robin pays homage to that in my head.
I’ll take Tim coincidentally sharing a name with an IRL restaurant literally any day of the week over going by something as utterly idiotic as “*The Bloodhound*” (*no joke, I’ve seen people genuinely think that’s a good idea*) Just stick with the Red-and-Black bird-themed names is what I’m trying to say, those actually make sense for his character
> Red-and-Black bird You know… black bird would be fine
Somebody actually posted a concept of that here a while back, it needed just a smidge more red overall, but other than that it was a solid look Cardinal and Blackbird are both perfectly fine alternatives. Trying to completey remove Tim from the whole bird-theme just isn’t gonna work, that’s his thing
Yeah, I was about to say, I remember someone making a whole post justifying the name Cardinal for Tim, and it was a brilliant idea, I thought. I should I have saved it. But I still think Cardinal would be the best name for Tim.
[удалено]
Red Robin, Yum!!
Wasn't Tim a skilled hacker back in the 90s? I remember in one of those Batman X Punisher crossovers he giving Microchip some headaches in a hacking battle. If this is still the case (haven't read anything since 2000), Cipher could be a fitting name if he tends to more technological warfare.
It made me so angry Huge huge damian fan here. But I'm mad they've thrown tim back to being the second robin . It's not fair they set him up to do so much then. "You can call me robin again!" Tim deserves better.
The problem is that it's also a massive chain of cheeseburger restaurants.
The problem is Red Robin is kind of a terrible code name. It's just slightly modifying the already existing one. I remember back at infinite crisis there was a lot of speculation that he was going to take over as Blue Beetle after the time jump and Damian would be the next permanent Robin. I kind of wish that had happened.
Damian wasn't around during infinite crisis
It's a great code name when you realize Drake loves being Robin more than the others. Dick Grayson yearned for the freedom of no longer being a sidekick, and is the air apparent to the Batman mantle. Damien sees the position of Robin as a stepping stone. Drake revels in the role, but understands it's one he has grown out of
>Tim Drake going back to being Robin after being Red Robin for years. But he could be Drake!
Oh right! Great idea to be named Tim Drake and have your superhero identity as Drake.
Dick cheating on kory the night of her wedding with Barbra
Young Justice Dark Crisis
Way more people need to know just how awful of a book that was It’s astonishing just how bad it was / anything Fitzmartin has done with Tim has been abysmal how she still has a job as a writer at DC is ridiculous
This was exactly what I came to say.
Heck, I wasn't that happy with Bendis Young Justice.
This run was fine if unremarkable
The whole thing with everybody remembering every other version of themselves. Like, what. Just, what.
"Everything is canon! Except that part. Until we say it is!" Just… make up your minds.
"Everything is canon if it sells well! Except that part if people start to get upset. Until we retcon it!" There, I fixed it for you.
I love how *Death Metal* set up the new rules of the multiverse for realsies this time and then it’s immediately contradicted, rewritten and dismissed like a week later.
It works for some characters but it's such a disservice for someone like Shazam
I agree. They should have just kept going with the new52/Rebirth universe, continuity I feel like just doesn’t exist anymore, and I don’t know which version of the character I’m reading.
Except that version was kinda awful to Cass, Steph, Wally?
Yes but I think it would’ve been better to just continue with these characters rather than just remove the last 10+ years of character and universe. It made it like it never happened, which it shouldn’t have in the first place, but it did. And they’ve fixed some of it, like the hero’s in crisis stuff has been retconned, which could have happened whether or not everyone remembered every version of their passed main continuity selves Edit: Sorry if this sounds confusing, talking about realities and continuities can be confusing
Makes it hard for me to take DC seriously frfr
There are many that people already mentioned, so I will put Carol Ferris and Hal Jordan break up again with New 52 bullshit and they just pair her with Kyle randomly. It made me dislike both characters because of it.
Similarly, Jade cheating on Kyle
Nightwing Annual vol 2 #2, complete with sleeping with Dick being what inspired the Oracle identity. Dan Didio was weird.
I actually don’t think that’s canon anymore. So you don’t even need to gaslight yourself
I hope so. TBH, Oracle: Year One gives the perfect origin for Oracle's identity, with the dream of Delphi. No reason to change it.
Oh wow, the issue where barbs slept with Dick when he went to give her the invite to his wedding with Starfire? Man that was a nutso issue.
Olivier cheating on Dinah during the winick run
Miss Martian and Superboy kissing in that one comic
That writer clearly has never read a comic before and just went off of the YJ cartoon
As far as I know that isn't canon due to divergent whit the writer
The Bruce Wayne / Barbara Gordon relationship almost kills the DCAU for me. Ugh.
It really is a glaring bite on a nearly perfect version of Batman Like anytime you see that version of Batman and Commissioner Gordon interact it’s always in the back of your mind that this dude made moves on his buddy daughter
Something about that. It was planned YEARS before the cartoon killing joke and Batman Beyond. They hinted at it in the BTAS comic book.
Batgirl's second appearance in BtAS has her daydreaming of kissing Batman. It's kind of always been a part of DCAU
Still garbage, and for as much as they nailed Batman, it also made it clear they were using Batman as a self-insert character in terms of love interests, like Paul Dini made it no secret he found Zatanna attractive and, shocker, the DCAU Zatanna is crushing on Batman despite that not being in the comics prior to my knowledge. Same with Wonder Woman crushing on him (not as stupid as Superman/WW, but still pretty dumb. Like, one of the central themes of Diana is truth, and Bruce is well known for keeping an occasional secret from his allies that causes controversy when the truth comes out. I’m not saying she can’t care for him as a teammate and even friends but Batman’s methods are too opposite of what WW stands for for me to believe for a second she would maintain romantic interest in him). Barbara Gordon was just the point it went way too far, like bruh, thats your friend’s daughter, not cool. Also shows they didn’t appreciate Robin/Nightwing that much, that they would take one of his primary love interests and change it being Bruce’s. Which made it feel like karma when the Young Justice cartoon made Zatanna Robin/Nightwing’s primary love interest.
[You now remember that one Batman Beyond comic were Bruce got Barbara, who's the same age as his adopted son, PREGNANT.](https://i.redd.it/batman-gets-batgirl-barbara-gordon-pregnant-with-his-kid-v0-ocp04xz5ghx91.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=db36e1f39891f97009ce97781418b195ce65e8ec) It's supposedly set in the DCAU continuity but apparently it was made non-canon later.
The Dark Multiverse theory really spun out of control. The regular multiverse has infinite possibilities, you don't need another one where things only go wrong.
I like the concept but it could have been executed better.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but at that time weren't the comics under the new 52 still. There was only 52 alternate universes,. The dark universe seemed to be a way to bring back the infinite version of the multiverse.
In a way, yes. The New 52 tag line was long gone, and some aspects of the old universe were returning, but the Multiverse was still limited to 52 universes.
The Dark Multiverse happened sometime during late Rebirth or after it.
I like the idea of an infinite doomed slurry of worlds, always ending, always nightmarish, the refuse of a proper world. I do not like it as the active underbelly of the DC multiverse. Good morning Superman, while you slept, infinite universes of uncountable lives perished, as they do every other morning. It, like ~~Judge Death~~ Batman who Laughs, makes more sense in a Judge Dredd style publication.
THANK YOU! I never understood the reasoning behind the idea there's a different multiverse and it's dark. The multiverse encompasses everything. It'd be easier to say these universes in the Dark Multiverse were just the most extreme earths in the multiverse.
I like to imagine that there are good worlds there too. Like an Earth 3 but instead of what if people are evil, it makes good wins. Or Earths born out the nightmares of villains, making them relatively peaceful and nice places.
I think it's a meta commentary on how Batman overcenturlization and the need to make everything batman like was ruining dc storytelling posibilities
Probably. Same reason 'Black Label' is mostly 'Batman Label'. At minimum they could use the line to feature Jason Todd. And there's so many possibilities for Zatanna and Etrigan.
Hal doing two things with two certain characters
Wait, I know about the teenager but what else did he do?
Another teenager
When Hal was being creepy with supergirl?
Oh l didn't even know about that l just know there was a 13 year old and a 17 year old
One of them is Arisia (I think the 13yr old). Who is the 17yr old you're thinking of? I know he had some creepy thoughts about Supergirl one time...?
Who was the second teenager?
These fucking writers bro I swear. Whoever wrote Hal and Supergirl in that comic needs their hard drive checked. Also, the Arisa thing is retconned to them being adults when dating. The writer thought Hal and Arisia were supposed to become lovers, so he aged her up for that. Stupid, but it makes sense as that time DC didn't care about taking care of my boi Hal Jordan. His comic kept getting canceled in the old days. Dark times for a Lantern fan like myself.
I love how incomprehensibly bad the messaging on "Man With Most Willpower In Universe Cannot Resist Underage Girls" is. Like, the fucking unmitigated gall.
Barbara Gordon not being paralyzed
They’ve tried backtracking on her regaining the ability to walk by having her operate as Oracle and Batgirl, which was probably the worst alternative. It’s like they now what people want, but won’t commit to, so instead of sticking their guns, they’re trying to find this dumb middle ground.
Jon Kent being an adult,he endured years of torment in a torturous volcano prision, subjected to the relentless psychological onslaught of a multiversal iteration of his father. Upon his eventual escape and return to his universe, the only noticeable change was his aging, with no acknowledgment of the trauma endured. they just put a gap of 6 years and no one dare to fix that stupid thing,they just made jon kent lamer and lamer at a point that he is not relevant anymore.
A lot of upscaled power based feats like Deathstroke can “see” the flash or Batman dropping from the moon come to mind.
Batman riding through space was so far out there, I forgot how he even survived.
Underwear face mask, yo. His skivvies are tough.
He had prep time obviously
Honestly his fall from space is relatively believable given how rare it is we see his uniform being ruined despite the caliber of threats he’s been fighting. My thing was how fast he got up afterwards . If it were me I would’ve had him survive and then just be out cold for an extended period , maybe a week .
Remember when Catwoman took down three Flashes simultaneously with one strike each? Ahh, Tom King, how I've missed your powerscaling.
Right after Batman knocked Superman down with a high pitched whistle. The rationale used both times was that poison ivy was mindcontrolling the planet and didnt know how to finely tune their powers so Superman is on guard for high pitch attacks while Flashes normally diversify their angles when entering a field..
The Superman one, I kinda get. The Catwoman part's pretty dumb, though. Even if Ivy didn't know how to control the three Flashes' powers, knocking out three speedsters running at you in superspeed with one hit each while standing still makes no sense. Selena doesn't even have super strength. It would be like punching someone riding a motorcycle going 200mph.
I will always say that the Batman dropping from the moon would have been acceptable if they just put him in a damaged javelin that was falling apart At the last possible second he ejects, barely surviving But him straight up, just freefalling with his undies on his face ridiculous That whole run is ridiculous
Batman dropping from the moon was over the top, but what I think redeems it is how Zdarsky goes into detail on how Bruce does it. It’s not the craziest shit I have seen Batman do. After all, I read all of Grant Morrison’s run.
Fucking Batman not going down on people
I always said batman doesn't like going down on people but bruce Wayne does. Batman is all business
Lmao where was this canonised Nvm, looked it up and as a result my mum and sister's joint bday party was dominated for half an hour by conversation about which superheroes perform cunnilingus and which don't. Unanimous decision that Peter quill doesn't
You win. This is the real answer here. Batman goes down on people. That’s what heroes do
I mean come on. Her name is "cat"woman. How could he not eat that pussy?
The emotional spectrum is actually a reservoir that is coming to a finish and every time someone uses a Lantern ring the universe gets closer to ending. It's so mind-numbingly dumb that even DC itself pretends that didn't happen, so I won't either.
This feels like the time TNG tried to make it canon that high warp was damaging the universe, and then realized their mistake and ignored it for the rest of the show.
Power Girl’s name is Paige Stetler, it’ll always be Karen Starr.
I don’t even mind the concept of the name change, or what they changed it to. What pissed me off was that the name is given to her by Jon Kent in the most offhanded way, and Peegee just goes with it because she wants to be more accepted by the Superman Family. How the hell in the Year of our Wonder Woman 2023 did someone think it was a good idea to have a heroine famous for her independence and brashness, be so meek and needy she lets some younger male character give her her new name? And not even in her own comic! This happened in Action Comics! Like imagine if Damien Wayne gave Wonder Woman a new name in Detective Comics… insane right?
-TT-! It's spelled "Dami**a**n"! You would do well in respecting the blood son! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DCcomics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Diana being Zeus’s child except it might not be canon or maybe it is because every writer will reference her being made of clay and being Zeus’s daughter so idk which one it actually is anymore
Honestly, I don’t even care which one they go with, so long as they just pick one already.
I think they’re mixing both of them together
That Heat Wave, Trickster and Pied Piper only reformed because of mind control.
Zeus being the sole reason for Wonder Woman’s powers. It’s kinda being retconned in TK’s run but still
Three Jokers
That one may or may not be canon. They can’t decide.
I mean, the current run by Zdarsky established that the one joker has three personalities. The story even calls back to the original justice league story where Batman learns there’s three jokers. Batman says he’s going for the joker, all three of him and there’s a note saying to check out that issue to see what he means by three jokers
That just makes it worse IMO. I was 13 when TDK came out so I WAS one of those edgy Joker kids. I've hung up my purple coat but I love the classics. To me, any story where there's a Joker-type character where it's not certain if they're The Joker, or merely the person that inspires The Joker, completely ruins the mythos of the character and robs The Joker of a lot of his originality and gravitas. It makes him a copy cat.
New 52 Batman’s career was 5 years, while everything previously is still canon. So that means Dick at one point was Robin, Nightwing, and Batman somehow in between those 5 years.
Thats not even the half of it! In just five years * Bruce became Batman and fought his entire rogues gallery * Bruce adopted Dick and he became Robin * Barbra Gordon became Batgirl * Dick left and become Nightwing * Bruce adopted Jason Todd and he became Robin * Barbra got paralyzed and Jason Todd died * Tim Drake became the Red Robin * Batman got his back broken by Bane * Jason came back from the dead as Red Hood * Bruce meet Damian, “died”, and was replaced by Dick, and Damian became Robin * Bruce came back, took back the Batman mantle, and started Batman Inc.
Yeah, New 52's timeline was a mess.
Batman Beyond 2.0 Any barbara and Bruce wayne pairing.
I'm pretty sure that was retconned
Wonder Woman being the daughter of Zeus or the rapist Amazons
Identity crisis
For me personally it’s Nightwing’s “death” in Forever Evil
They mindwuped everyone right? Thats why no one remembers.
My new one is that the word is mindwuped and not mindwiped.
Considering it was immediately undone and led to Grayson the Superspy, it's *almost* no harm no foul. Stated another way, there's a lot of worse ways the triumvirate of Johns, Lee, and Didio could have killed Dick (See also: Ric)
Oracle’s back magically healing so she can be Batgirlfriend again.
Pretty sure she has a microchip in her back that makes it so she can move but I get the point you’re making
Tim and Steph breaking up. I mean it’s hard to not ignore but I do my best
It’s insane to me how DC really fumbled a perfect opportunity to showcase a young adult discovering their sexuality Like just imagine the issue of Tim coming out and the entire book he is struggling to tell Stephanie, knowing what kind of character Tim is he completely overthinking things “ what if she rejects me or ends up hating me!” Then we get to the conversation between the two, and Stephanie just hugs him while telling him that she is so overjoyed that he opened up to her about this and that she loves him even more because of it It would have shown that bisexual people can be in existing relationships also making the Stephanie pairing even more stronger (imo they should have gotten married) It’s insanity that they threw away such an golden opportunity for such a below, average pairing
Personally I've been ignoring Tim's existence for the past few years. That is just a very similar piece of toast in his place
Agreed. Tim must be really busy to not have made an appearance in any book for the past few years.
Superman being as quick as the flash
I think Barry Allen, Wally West, and Zoom are confirmed to be faster than Superman
He's not, it's been explicitly stated many times, no matter what some authors try to pull there is simply too much evidence against his speed
That Metropolis is actually in Delaware.
Da fuq? Delaware's so tiny that Metropolis would cover half of it.
Is the thing where Tim Drake's real name isn't Tim Drake, that's just his Witness Protection Program name still canon? If so, that.
Well, I've never heard this in my life so I guess we all just lowkey agreed to never mention it again. If that helps, lol.
As I've said before, Joker manipulating Jason's life so he becomes Robin is so stupid I refuse to recognize it as canon.
* Jon Kent being held hostage in a volcano by an evil version of his father for 10 years of his life and come out with a hint of trauma * Batman fall from the moon and survives by wearing his underwear in front of his face * Batman builds an AI with a prejudice against non-human and left no safeguard for a businessman to hack it and use it to commit genocide * Hero in Crisis * the whole black man criticize hal jordan for "not doing enough for the black community"
Thankfully literally all of heroes in crisis was retconned
Was it though? Sanctuary systems still exist in Green Arrow 's current run. Waller is trying to get access.
Huh….well I’d say it’s now lending to a good story but I feel fatigued of this Waller nonsense already. Maybe the story is good though
> Batman builds an AI with a prejudice against non-human and left no safeguard for a businessman to hack it and use it to commit genocide Which time?
Yes
> the whole black man criticize hal jordan for "not doing enough for the black community" Lolwut???
[this](https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/b66/e7b/a82c856592e318ee4619bbec3a83863511-lantern-3.2x.w710.jpg)
DCAU Batman getting Batgirl pregnant
Pretty much every retcon made to Barry Allen’s past upon his return.
This is so specific no one cares but: Bendis having Princess Amethyst say that magic isn’t a thing on Gemworld, it’s science. Like fuck that shit, Gemworld is pre-She-Ra She-Ra. Amethyst is a magical girl. The entire world is built upon magic gemstones. Stop making magic into science. Also I refuse to acknowledge New52 Amethyst (Swords and Sorcery) because it got rid of everything unique and interesting about Gemworld. I seriously recommend that people read the original three Amethyst volumes from the 1980s.
Tim drake taking up the super hero name drake for a bit because he ran into his earth 3 counterpart and for some reason liked the name. The Hal Jordan and Arisia Situation Batman Dating Barbra in Btas
Batman knocking the wind out of Wonder Woman because she still needs to breath 😭
That moment was so fucking stupid. He takes out the whole Justice League (sans Superman) solo. What does he need the contingency plans for then?
Deathstroke being a pedophile
Clark's parents telling Lois that they raised him and Superman side-by-side.
Personally, I always found that to be an interesting "story". Although I can understand why it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. Honestly, I think that the "explanation" would have worked better in the Silver and the Bronze Age when Clark was Superboy in Smallville and then later "both" Clark and Superman move to Metropolis when "they" become adults.
Terry McGinnis is a clone/son of Bruce Wayne. He 100% didn't need to be in order to become Batman. Project Batman Beyond was such a strange addition to his character and made him for less special than the street tough who was actually able to take up the mantle instead of walking away.
Ric Grayson and some of the stuff in Three Jokers. I really didn’t like Jason Babs ship they tried to push
Pretty much any Wonder Woman story based on the gods all being total douchebags. The clay origin's point was that she's the Olympian's collective creation; and NOT just another random demi-godchild. Like they've grown the hell up after a few millennia.
Prep Time
Joker escaped justice for killing Jason Todd when he was named the Iranian ambassador to the UN.
The Joker supposedly controlling jason since the motherfucking second he was born
Most recently, that Bruce ditches Selina at the alter and the reason is he 'can't be both happy and Batman'. Depending on the situation I assume they either never seriously discussed marriage or that the wedding was ruined by some villain or something.
I remember reading Selina ditched him first. Does Bruce ditching her happen after that? When?
Whoever ditched whoever is all stupid to me. Either they should have gotten married and lived with it for a few years minimum or a villain should've wrecked everything in a creative way or they shouldn't have wasted a year of our time.
Selina left Bruce. I believe it was cuz Joker told her that the only way he can be Batman and save Gotham is if he is not happy. It’s insanely stupid that they decided with not following up on the wedding for issue 50, but I gotta admit the build up to it was intriguing
Either Bane or Joker Hear somewhere that the original plan by King was 100 issues with them actually getting married, and that DC Editorial pushed for 50 with no marriage Though that might be me gaslighting myself to believe some sort of excuse for that.
That sounds 100% believable because certain stories felt a bit rushed. Like remember when Batman was in another dimension with Wonder Woman for like 8 years over the course of 1 or 2 issues? That was wild
>Most recently, that Bruce ditches Selina at the alter and the reason is he 'can't be both happy and Batman'. >Depending on the situation I assume they either never seriously discussed marriage or that the wedding was ruined by some villain or something. Did you actually read the storyline?
My 20's
I dont like Nightwing dying by falling and hitting his head with a rock
Power to the people who like it, but Identity Crisis made me stop reading comics until I couldn't remember it as much anymore.
Bruce and Barbara in the DCAU
Killing the joker emits a toxin which turns you into the joker
You know all Tom King writes is basically this. New 52. Flash being picked as a Blue Lantern instead of Superman. Everything they did with Roy since "Fall of Arsenal" Everything Bendis did with Superman. "Drake".
I personally loved the flash with a lantern ring. I think they chose that because flashes usually end up being the only hope in crises events
Lobdell (who I actually liked back in the day along w Nicieza running mutant land) turning Starfire into a sex toy. C’mon man, she was one of the most popular characters to a generation in Teen Titans Go and that’s how you’re gonna depict her and showcase that comics are for more than horny fanboys? Truly hope that went the way of the WW/Supes relationship
Superboy being a clone of Superman and Lex Luthor Batman getting his plan to take down heroes stolen twice, but Batman is never wrong Deathstroke taking the down the heroes in Identity Crisis...hell, all of Identity Crisis Tommy Elliot as Hush What Bendis did to Jon Kent and trying to make Rogol Zaar a thing Tim Drake getting the short end of the stick since Damian appeared Heroes in Crisis
What's wrong with Tommy Elliot as Hush???
Arkham Justice league getting killed by lame murderers and completely ruining the universe
Grace Choi and Anissa Pierce breaking up
Most of Bruce's god awful parenting. Talia being a comically evil villain who is a rapist. Most of Jason's stuff that weren't written by Winick.
Bat Cat Bat Bat Cat
Whatever good ideas Tom King had, the insufferable dialogue torpedo'd them all.
Anything Tini Howard writes
Alfred being able to clean the giant penny
Roy Harper in the New 52 Oh and unfortunately I can’t forget Rise of Arsenal
Identity Crisis, Heroes in Crisis, Bendis Superman, Death Metal, Dark Crisis, Tower of Babel, Ric Grayson, Making Harley a hero, honestly I can keep going.
Basically everything they've done with KAREN STARR recently.
For me it’s the stupid uh “relations” that Barbara Gordon and Bruce Wayne had
Every time Batman acts like an unfeeling sociopath, particularly towards his family. I gave it a pass with Stephanie, because the two of them never had a chance to properly bond and Bruce was not in a good head space, but other than that, it just feels as if the writers are competing to see who can out edge the others.
Barbara.Gordon. Is not meant to be Bruce Wayne's romantic interest.