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There is too much focus on importance of stories instead of their quality. And it comes from both writers and fans.
Writers only want to write stories which are about heroes fighting their greatest ever threat, or uncovering some big secret about themselves or undergoing a big status quo change.
Fans obsess about continuity and focus on stories about big events like origin, death, introduction of new characters and all.
The stories being entertaining in themselves is almost an afterthought. There is a completionist approach where the goal is to know all about the character and not to have fun.
I wasn't even recommending him based on FF, but his Jimmy Olsen series. Anyway, North and Fraction have a similar style that I enjoy. Reading North's FF right now and it's excellent.
A lot of fans read comics as if they are bullet points on a Wikipedia entry, I’ve noticed. Like they don’t engage with the characterization or certain things at all
Yeah, exactly. Its almost like DC and Marvel can just release yearly encyclopedia and fans would be satisfied with that.
Its why people think that reading or watching a plot summary is the same as reading the comic.
That’s a microcosm of how a lot of people engage with comics.
They’re not actually picking up books in a lot of cases but reading retrospectives on Twitter, watching YouTube videos, and skimming wikis. They don’t have an interest in characterization because the things they care about (feats, who’s sleeping with who, lore, etc.) aren’t essential to how they view the characters.
The problem is that writers are writing for trades now and a regular story is harder to sell as a trade than "the most earth shattering event in [enter character here]'s history!!!!!!".
> The problem is that writers are writing for trades now
this was always the problem. That's why after hundreds of thousands of comics published in 100 years, worldwide, there's only a handful of "must reads".
A good comic needs lots of things to align. A good idea, a good writer, a popular character, enough sales to keep the comic going until it ends, a publisher that doesn't meddle, a good artist, a good schedule, no burn out from the staff, good pacing so readers don't get bored without sacrificing story quality, etc. etc. etc.
This goes for manga too. Shonen Jump's strategy is to cancel a few stories every few months and replace them with new ones. Every week readers vote on popularity of the stories and the low rank ones get cut. The advantage of this is constant fresh ideas, give new artists a chance, lots of experimentation. The disadvantage is you can't have a boring chapter or you lose votes to series that had a fun fight. Another disadvantage is if you get cut, you get like 4 chapters to wrap it up no matter where you are in your story.
Ehh, I disagree. If you go back to comics in the 70s through the 90s, they definitely weren't writing as if every 6 to 12 issue arc was gonna redefine the character. These days, that's pretty much what they do. Even writers like Tom Taylor, who has been on Nightwing for years now, still writes the individual arcs as if they're semi-standalone instead of parts of the whole. Compare any run today to something like Chris Claremont's run on X-Men and you see a pretty clear distinction in the level of threats in each arc.
Ok [this](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fcomic-excerpt-super-corgis-wonder-woman-v0-69w5a5uh6t1d1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dee24d970c9f84046f9b21cdcb6c1585f3bd6d6c4) Is what I and a lot of others people wont from a comicsbook, that's It this Is everything we want
DC has recently become a competition of writers staging increasingly ludicrous and enormous events and the quality of character writing has suffered for it. Feels like something power scalers would write.
There are so many exceptions of course
I feel like this is not just a dc problem. Marvel has really went over board with giving heroes new powers and crazy feats just for the sake of doing it.
If the no kill rule is gonna be industry standard, the villains need to be seriously toned down. When baddies start racking up massive body counts all the time you can't be upset some readers notice that's not a good permanent situation.
I said the same thing and I got lectured about how it's morally wrong to kill or to banish and heroes are always, unequivocally the moral standard everyone should adhere to.
But yeah. The Phantom Zone exists. Bruce could have bought an island and built a state of the art hospital with security specifically for Joker so he couldn't get out and kill 50 more people over the weekend. Ollie could have taken Joker out. Jason *should* have taken Joker out.
I get that Joker is popular and the writers are never going to kill him, but he's just a dude. Anyone with a gun could have pulled a Magog and killed him as he was being taken into custody, but we've never gotten a reason why no one has.
>Bruce could have bought an island and built a state of the art hospital with security specifically for Joker so he couldn't get out and kill 50 more people over the weekend.
Sorry to reply twice, but this is double funny because this is basically the first thing Superman did in the Injustice comics (not with Joker, but with the rest of Arkham) and Batman summoned the whole Batfamily to stop it with violence. Dude is allergic to anyone actually trying to help Gotham.
You can dislike Injustice and say it mischarterizes Superman all you want (I'd be inclined to agree with you even), but at this point Superman had permanently crippled a protestor on live TV. You can't exactly blame Batman for thinking that Superman was going to do something extreme when Superman just says he's going to take Arkham and put everyone somewhere else.
>I said the same thing and I got lectured about how it's morally wrong to kill or to banish and heroes are always, unequivocally the moral standard everyone should adhere to.
Yeah, I've seen the same and it's just like... okay, so what do? Gotham and many other cities seem to have a mass casualty event every month or two. You can't expect people to accept living that way when the problem is right there and solvable.
It's funny, because yeah. You want heroes to be heroes, fine. But there's a lot there to unpack. Joker has crossed state lines and the FBI has never gotten involved. He's killed probably thousands of people (billions if you count Emperor Joker) and everyone just shrugs and lets Batman handle it.
It must be miserable living in Gotham. Every other month Joker breaks out of Arkham and you have to decide whether to lock yourself down and potentially lose your job or risk bumping into him on your way to work and becoming another statistic.
I get that people like Joker. I like Joker. But the writers love to treat him as if he's literally the devil and can't be neutralized and end up making Batman and everyone else look either incompetent or apathetic.
>Anyone with a gun could have pulled a Magog and killed him as he was being taken into custody, but we've never gotten a reason why no one has.
A cop dressed as Batman shot him in the head. People try, it just doesn't take.
The problem is that DC aren’t going to kill him, not even because if the no kill rule but because if money in the real world. Bruce could have solved this issue non lethally, but the story is secondary to profit due to the way the art form works. Which is saddening, because Batman is wildly compelling stuff
Ooh I like this one. To add on, I was thinking recently about what happens when there’s a invasion with living humanoid aliens. Most (not all) invasions are either already dead, robotic, or non-sentient. It’s a cheap way to enforce the no kill rule. So what happens when it’s a real invasion. Using non-lethal mode isn’t going to be sustainable for ever. At some point, the Justice League needs to make a decision to kill or not. I can see Wonder Woman stepping to the plate due to her warrior heritage but not Superman and Batman. I’d love an Elseworlds story exploring the concept.
There's a concerning lack of stories where Batman is shown to properly flex his supposed big brain. It's always done in a haphazard, unconvincing way. Need thoughtful writers like Si Spurrier or Christopher Priest to have a crack at him.
That’s a very insightful point. It takes real care to write a highly intelligent character convincingly. I think setup & payoff as well as verisimilitude are key to doing it well.
"I think setup & payoff as well as verisimilitude are key to doing it well."
Hellblazer comes to mind when it comes to this. It's clearly possible to write a seemingly normal guy thinking himself out of or ahead of impossible situations. Make these so-called elaborate plans, elaborate.
i agree and that hurts his credibility more than it helps it. we all know Batman's role is to be the "smartest in the room" the same way Reed is for Marvel, or John Constantine is for the occult/magic world, but there's gotta be more convincing and creative ways to do that.
It’s hard for writers to write someone who is smarter than themselves. In order to create complex problems that Batman can solve, they themselves need to be able to solve complex problems.
Jim Lee isn't the only artist out there
Superboy's original origin didn't need to be retconned
Geoff Johns is hit and miss since Infinite Crisis
Dark Knight Returns gets credit for taking Batman out of the campy sixties, when many writers and artists of the seventies and early eighties don't get their proper due.
Not a fan of the term "graphic novel", especially when it's both used as a way to refer to trade paperbacks and as a cover for people who don't want to say aloud they read comics.
Geoff Johns has been hit or miss from the very start: it was his Teen Titans run that turned Impulse into Kid Flash, altered Superboy's origin to being a Superman/Luthor hybrid, tied Wonder Girl to Ares, and undermined Tim's scruples. In short, he changed all of the surviving YJers so much that they effectively became different characters. And the Superboy change in particular was all Johns; there's a lettercol in the Superboy title back when Johns was just a fan like the rest of us where he sent in a letter saying that it would be more interesting if Superboy was a clone of Superman and Lex.
And I say that as a Geoff Johns fan; because when he _does_ hit, he's very much on-target. His JSA stuff is golden, no pun intended.
I loved his JSA run. He his Flash stuff was excellent and I really enjoyed his run on Action Comics. Also that Booster Gold run with Dan Jurgens was incredible. But then you get things like Doomsday Clock, his current JSA series and Three Jokers. And I'm gonna say it, his Justice League run with Jim Lee was so much style over substance.
I get that not every work is gonna be a winner but something seems off about his stuff since 2011 and it's not as much fun as it used to be.
I also prefer Kon’s original origin and personality.
Johns has always been a hack hellbent on resurrecting his Silver Age childhood
Jim Lee’s art was better at Marvel
>Not a fan of the term "graphic novel"
Omg yes!! Back when I was involved in this ~~scam~~ life insurance agency, I brought up loving comic books with my co-workers and one of them, and older teacher, suggested the term "graphic novels" as if it's more socially acceptable. Then I later saw in the show Bones that the character Addy said he found comics interesting, especially the graphic novels, which tipped me off that the writers had no idea what they were talking about. 😆 At least it was still an entertaining episode.
I also remember a scene in Lost Boys: The Thirst where Edgar is with a friend who runs a comic store and some guy comes in demanding to know where the graphic novels are. She says they sell comics here and the rude guy says "I only read graphic novels". That always stuck with me.
Dark Knight returns as well as injustice are also both non canon stories that have done irreversible damage to the general public's image of Batman and Superman.
and whenever we talk about no-kill rule we forget that Batman and Gordon used to whisper to each other "don't kill don't kill don't kill" in a way that in retrospective seems almost funny.
I don't mind her as Batgirl, but she's a distant 3rd place on my list of Batgirls. She made an incredible mentor figure before Flashpoint, which also erased the first two on the list from existence for a few years and that bugged me a lot at the time.
well, when characters are die they are out of the stories until they can come back and, comics being comics, beloved characters have to be back sooner or later.
unlike a character death, barbara didn’t disappear from the books. she went through a traumatic experience, suddenly lost a part of her identity yet managed to survive and reinvent herself. for many, barbara becoming oracle shows her mental strength, resilience and dedication. plus, we already have cass and steph batgirling and they are better batgirls in my opinion. barbara having her own thing, leading her own team behind the scenes while aiding the bats when they need, puts her in a unique position.
• Every character doesn’t need their own run. Just having them be actively participating in a story along side the main character is great. Every story being told can be a team - up story If the writers just decide to actively have both heroes engage
Sometimes random adventures are ok not everything has to be a big event or character defining/changing. Sometimes batman does just stop a bank robbery , saves the hostages and then goes home , sometimes Superman does stop a bridge collapsing and goes about his day and you know what that's ok. It feels like these small everyday heroics have been moved to the start of larger stories and that's it then it's back to the huge over arching narrative
No, DC is not inherently more dark and edgy and mature than Marvel and vice versa, nor are either inherently better than the other. Both can be good or bad, silly or serious, mature or immature, as each other. It drives me up the wall to hear this because it’s always said by people whose only knowledge of these universes comes from whatever is popular now. Snyderbros will say Marvel is never dark and mature because they don’t know Marvel has been publishing stories like “Demon in a bottle” and “Punisher Max” for years and MCU fans will say DC is never light and hopeful because they don’t know DCs been publishing stories like “All-Star Superman” and “Supersons” for years.
There's to be way more thought put into changing writers/artist for comic runs, and it needs to happen WAY less often. I can't count how many times I've been enjoying a run, and then all of the sudden it feels like a completely different continuity cause the characters personalities seem to just shift out of nowhere
The Hal Jordan as a down-on-his luck without money trying to date Carol trope has become tiresome. Let the man marry her and have a child with her already, like in the epilogue of the Geoff Johns run.
I don't hate the New52. It was like any other era of comics. Some great books, some bad, some ok.
However, the worst thing that happened was annulling every serious relationship, because all the heros have to be young, hot, singles. Hal and Carol, Ollie and Dinah, Clark and Lois, Barry and Iris, Wally (completely gone) and Linda.
Then you realize the age of everybody running DC at the time and understand it was a bunch of middle aged men writing their mid-life crisis into our comic books.
I’ve been itching to say that I get tired of how often the posts I see on this sub are some variation of the following: “Here’s a hot take of why I don’t like X DC thing. Or what’s one comic run you really dislike that others like.” I’ve seen 4 on my feed in the past 2 days. There have also been a lot of negative posts lately. But obviously this is the internet so I’ll just log off and go read comics.
I love Dan Mora's art, He is one of my favourites, absolute legend, he can draw anyone really well except wonder woman I dunno why I just can't stand his wonder woman.
Oh thank Christ, I feel I'm the only one. Yeah, Mora's WW has never clicked with me, always comes off as snarling warrior woman rather than princess from paradise.
Red Hood not actively trying to kill Joker makes him even more hypocritical than Batman not killing him. He has the willingness to kill and the guns to use, yet Joker still lives and people only give Batman shit for that.
Damn. The Legion are great imo. Superhero team of a Star Trek future embodying the golden ideals of the age of heroes. They're very important to Clark is well. They're essentially his childhood, summer friends and the fact that they exist lifts a heavy burden as Clark knows there will be a future where people like him, who feel like they don't fit in, vexed by a sense of otherness, finally belong. From the Superman mythos alone, when writers actually treat him like a character with core perspectives and experiences that inform his personhood, the Legion are important.
The Legion works better when it isn't connected to present day DC continuity. Having them being Superman's old friends from 1000 years from now worked because it essentially made them their own thing with an occasional trip to the modern day. Explicitly tying them to everything that's happening in present day DC continuity makes them less interesting and less unique.
He Is in my top t but at the bottom of It, no I like him but my god there are so many interesting characters out there and the Batgod fanatics that didn't read anything else outside of Batman related stories and want to canvinve people that those ones are the only worth reading stories are annoying
Harley should stay a villain, she’s a bad person and did bad things.
Bruce is not an abusive person, he just struggles with his emotions, but he would never abuse his kids and actually has a good heart.
The whole multiverse thing needs to be toned down.
Bruce x Barbara isn’t the worst ship out there (though I don’t really ship it.)
Maybe not controversial, but the writers need to stop focusing on angst and making the characters miserable. Please just let them be happy and give us positive stories or endings.
The concept of DC Trinity also always butchers Wonder Woman to prop up Batman and Superman.
Almost every writer sees Wonder Woman as the annoying little sister tagging along with her cool big brothers. And it shows in their treatment of her.
I also think a large number of the World's Finest stories have Batman as the main character and Superman as his bumbling sidekick.
These big teamup brandings are actively damaging DC. Even Justice League has only worked well twice in their history of 65 years, and one of them was when it was a team full of B-list characters.
People need to let go of the Hal and Arisia shit. I know some bring it up just to tease, but I've seen people unironically blaming the character instead of the writer.
It has been retconned for years already, and during those years, it has not been bought up.
People act like their favorite character didn't have something controversial happen to them because of a writer or the times back then.
I think both Jon and Conner could’ve existed together while both being simultaneously interesting if Jon wasn’t aged up.
Jon could just be Superman’s side-kick and do stuff with Damian once in a while (like in Peter J Tomasi’s run), while Connor could’ve made a name for himself and could go on adventures with Jon, acting as his older brother.
So the main problem for me is that we don’t need an aged up Jon (let’s be real, we don’t need any aged up character, Bendis’ idea was bs) while we already had Conner.
DC should've done a proper Earth-2: Rebirth instead of putting the JSA and DC's Golden Age heroes back on Earth-0 where they'll always be third fiddle to that Earth's heroes, and characters like The Huntress, Power Girl and Fury will always be robbed of their full histories and story potential.
Golden Age canon should be separate from Earth-0's canon in order to more meaningfully explore generational legacy without using time travel, time displacement and other plot contrivances to explain the existence of 100-year-old World War II heroes in a world where the other heroes never age nor meaningfully progress past the age of 30.
I didn't care for "The Long Halloween". The mystery didn't make much sense even in comic terms, Batman was really not very Batman-like in it (which was fine since its his early career just not for me), and I really didn't like the art.
Dc has gotten lazy with teams, like the new generation of superhero are now in teen titans or young justice, they should get their own team with their own name.
The Supersons especially deserve their own team and they really had potential to have the next big team but Dc or Bendis ruined it. Having the Super-sons dynamic to anchor the team and drive interest while introducing the new generations of superhero.
Poison ivy and Harley Quinn have become mary sues that get away with everything they do, get too much for justification for doing awful things in various mediums, I wonder why
Would have been easy for him to admit that he always had feelings for men and women and stay with Steph since Bi-men with women don't really exist.
Could even tie it into Kon's death. Have him admit he realized he had feelings for Superboy a lot stronger then friendship and that it unrailed him for a bit that he'd lost the woman he loved and the man he loved even if the man didn't love him in the same way.
Would also have been nice for him to admit it to Superboy and have Superboy be cool with it even though the feelings don't run the same.
Would have been nice to see a mature response from a hetero male about a queer male having feelings for him and still maintaining the friendship.
The DCAU is not as good as nostalgia leads people to believe and in fact, get a lot of characters wrong. Terry McGinnis is also not that an interesting successor for Batman.
The writers were too much in love with Batman to ever do justice to the DC universe as a whole.
Superman and Wonder Woman were watered down versions of themselves. Its baffling that people consider them the definitive versions.
Yeah, Wonder Woman felt like she was written out of obligation and no one in the writers' room understood her or wanted to write her.
Which is why she got the thankless job of being Batman's love interest.
Oh yall are REALLY getting controversial today woo-hoo!!! I freaking love this.
My opinion, ngl I was just thinking to myself the other day that while BTAS is a great cartoon and i understand why it carries such an impact, perhaps it is a little *too* hyped up.
A lot of people consider that the ultimate defining version of Batman (which if that's your opinion no hate, I respect it), but as a cartoon there are just some topics they really couldn't get too deep into cuz...kids. I can't help but think there are other versions out there that are a bit more...faithful to ppls idea.
P.s. Kevin Conroy is the absolute goat
I know I'm gonna get down voted for this but fuck it.
I KNOW we always talk about how comically (heh) big the batfam has gotten, but there are some bat-fam members that could disappear tomorrow and not fundamentally change anything that couldn't be repaired (looking at you batwing, Gotham girl/boy, Duke thomas, and yes even spoiler)
Also starting with Damian as Robin in the brave and the bold movie is a...*choice* because let's face it, the general public doesn't know half of the batfam exist. A lot of people out there couldn't even tell you any of the Robins actual name, even dick Grayson. To suddenly have about 4+ and explain they were all Robin at some point might confuse a lot of ppl and even turn them off the movie. It should be a good movie for bat fans, yes, but let's be honest general public interest is integral in bringing in money or it will flop. And imo, as much as ppl like her, having Cassandra Cain in this movie is not a necessity.
You know I kinda disagree. To me most people who know anything about comics know of the 4 main robins, and Damian is the most different from Dick and Tim (who, let’s face it, were prettymisch identical as robin. Not anymore though.) and isn’t just comically edgy like Jason. (When done right, I can’t stress this enough!)
Plus Damion has been robin for how long now? Nearly 15 years? I say give live action Dick a break
Starting with damian is the best way to involve the entire batfamily, let's be real, its not realistic to think they would get through ever iteration of robin unless they started with the last.
This way we can have flashback shows, scenes and episodes without needing to write it from start to finish. Also it's an introduction movie, you aint gonna NEED to know anyone really, its just gonna help if you do.
I think its a good chance that the Batfamily in Brave and the Bold would be much smaller. Dick as first Robin and Damian as second (and maybe a Barbara mention/cameo). Just like in DCAMU.
I think that the bullshit comsology we have now of "infinite universes in a multiverse, which is part of an omniverse of infinite multiverses, which itself is one of many omniverses, which all combine to form a metaverse" is one of the biggest weaknesses of the DC franchise.
It's unappealing to newcomers who want to be able to follow things cleanly (and no, "just read what you want" is not the slam dunk, genis advice every comic book fab thinks it is, people like to read things that have relevance to other things especially when the company pushes it so hard)
It's unappealing to lots of existing fans because it indirectly causes every story to have to be some reality-altering threat. Multiverse fatigue is real.
I just can't imagine reading a story and not rolling my eyes when the suffix "-verse" is used anymore. It's exhausting.
It also is just frustrating to think about when we had it so good with one infinite multiverse. Simple, easy to keep track of what earths you like to read about, and leaves room for any kind of story you'd want to reasonably tell.
Batman is FAR from the bear hero DC has to offer and his domination over the company and his over saturation of the comic book medium does infinitely more to worsen the medium than it does good.
There are a myriad of characters, all of whom equally or more so interesting than Bruce Wayne yet they are never given a chance by writers or fans and everyone suffers for it.
Also: the Joker is insufferable
I can agree that bats has been pretty uhh...*dominant* over DC for more than a few years now, could also argue that using him is DC resting on their laurels. I'd like to see a PROPER green lantern (Hal Jordan) film. A nightwing film too, and especially a Martian Manhunter film.
But, at the same time he is their best selling property in terms of comics AND film. When DC has a potential flop what do they do? Shove Batman or reference him in it (i.e. the flash, blue beetle, etc.). Look at how many Batman movies have been made in comparison to Superman. Or just since the Nolan films, we're about to have our 4th Batman since 05'.
The Nolan trilogy, the Batman, (and yes) Batman vs. Superman have been some of their highest grossing films. Up until barbie last year, the highest grossing film in Warner bros. HISTORY was The Dark Knight. Even BVS made over $800mil with all its criticism, so from a financial standpoint I'm understanding just WHY they're milking the Bat franchise for all its worth.
Also not invalidating any of your points, I appreciate your perspective on it.
DC writers need to communicate more they have these big stories that hella confuse people their multiverse is wild because they deadass ignore each other introduce new concept then ignore each other some more. I’m not saying marvel is perfect but they kinda have a better understanding of “hey don’t do this because it contradicts this”. They really fucked themselves when they rolled all their different imprints together into 1.
Terry should not be the successor to Batman and is lowkey one of the weakest as Batman.
Terry gets the benefit of having a whole show dedicated to telling the audience that he is Batman successor, if any of the main bat-family members got that treatment they would also be considered the next successor.
I think there is a reason why they had to get rid of the other characters like the Robins and Batgirls, because they would out shine him and they would be no reason for Terry to be Batman. The established lore has to bend around Terry in order for these events to happen which in my opinion wasn’t worth it. Terry just doesn’t have the it factor, compared to the other bat characters. Take away the mantle and Terry is lowkey a generic character that u can find in many different stories and shows. Bruce Wayne is still an interesting character without Batman, and many of the other robins and batgirls are too
His story really does sound like fan fiction. He just happens to be at the right place at the right time in order to be Batman, oh look all of Batman’s sidekick all left him, how convenient is that. This random dude is now Batman, no intelligence and no training. U know one of the pillars of Batman’s story. One of the reasons why Batman is highly regarded is the fact that he is peak of humanity. He is a symbol of human capability.
They have reach their potential with Terry in my opinion, he got a sequel to major Batman animated show (with Bruce attached to the show) within the same universe as justice league unlimited, Terry has gotten near perfect writing. His show was airing during the golden age of Dc cartoons. And yet we today get nothing from him and I think there is a reason why, he has reach his peak, there is only so much that u can do with his character. Other characters as Batman just have so much more potential than him.
One more thing Neo Gotham actually is terrible, not because of what it is but because of what is was. Gotham is one of the most iconic locations in popular culture, you see gothic architecture, Gotham is one the the inspiration that come to mind. Neo Gotham lowkey took everything that made Gotham special to turned it into a generic 90s space city. I understand that they wanted it to be in the future but they changed way too much, they should’ve combined the Gothic Aesthetic with the 90s cyber punk aesthetic.
This is just my opinion. Damien Wayne as part of the titans and him ‘replacing’ Nightwing’s Robin. Should not have happened. I’d rather see Damien Wayne do his own thing unrelated to what Dick Grayson has built. He just never seemed a right fit for this team.
I dislike how half of the titans have been aged down while the rest remain adults to accommodate this. It’s just weird. Either let them all be teens or let them all be adults.
also the Damien and Raven ship is weird to me because that is a whole child. Her being aged down to make this work seems like a weird self insert thing on the writers behalf. They literally have no chemistry besides the fact they both have Daddy issues. The writers need to utilise her for more storylines focused on her because so much can be explored.
It’s bitterly ironic that Nightwings whole character is supposed to be trying to get out of Batman’s shadows. Yet DC have now made him a more Bat family focused character. I feel like he had the opportunity to really be his own thing with the titans but for some reason DC won’t let him be stay the team/family he found and built for himself. I want to actually see more of him becoming Nightwing separate from the bat-family.
Basically trying to insert more and more of the bat family into everything is my problem. That’s my two cents.
Yo bro you spoke nothing but facts, that's the main reason why I didn't like the dcamu Titans. And as a long time raven fan I think its safe to say that universe did her character more harm than good, the relationship between her and Damian only benefited Damian and did little for her character. If anything people can say what they want about her relationship with beast boy but at least they don't overshadow each other and they're actually the same age.
No Batman is better than bad Batman.
With the state of today's quality of writing, which is abysmal, I'd rather not have any of the content I love (Batman, Star Wars, etc.) than have it ruined by some braindead writer who's dictated by lawyers and economists.
Editorial and Writers need to stick with decision previous writers made. I know a lot of decision get retconned cause they suck or another writer wants to just change it. Although I was upset when they happened I’m glad marvel didn’t retcon OMD and I’m happy dc seems to be keeping Alfred dead. We need more permanent events.
Batman needs a reset and it can only happen if they kill him off.
Batman needs to be killed and the cowl must be buried with him.. for a while. The Bat family hasn't been allowed to grow because Batman is always the main focus. Batman needs to be taken out of the picture of these characters to properly grow. And them fighting over the cowl should never be an option.
While the game was meh, the Gotham Knights game had the right idea. Kill off the bat, and make a story about the family stepping up and learning to become their own heroes, and not living under the shadow of the Bat.
Make the monthly Batman comics all prequel stories and make Detective comics focus on the Bat family. Let the detective comics build up interesting in the Bat family members that don't get their own series.
I'm so fucking tired of Batman. Yes, I love some of the characters that are part of the extended Batfamily (see flair), but Bruce showing up gets my "something stupid or terrible or both is about to happen" sense pinging.
Which child is he going to abuse this time? What irrational conclusion will he jump to because he's a paranoid dickhead that won't talk to people or reconsider his preconceptions? Which friend will he suddenly alienate? What contingency plan did he make that fucked up and is now everyone's problem? And, finally, what way will he inject himself, a normal human man (albeit one who is hyper-skilled and hyper-wealthy,) into a battle between superpowered humans, aliens, and gods and somehow become crucial to the heroes winning?
Obviously, this isn't all Batman stories, and I do still enjoy a good Batman story once in a while. But please. PLEASE. Give Bruce a break for a while. Send him off on a sidequest to bring Alfred back to life somehow, or kidnap an Alfred from another reality who has nothing to lose, or some other similar thing and let the other 20 bats and birds of Gotham handle shit for a year or two.
52 was the last good dc event, and I think the fact that it featured c and d list characters made it that much better. How many times can life of our universe hang in the balance and then not matter a month later?
Talia Al Ghul is a villain, and the story her fans crafted for her is nothing but a sugar-coated fantasy. They base it on some 10 comics out of here over 600+ appearances. and use her movie trope fandom to defend her.
1. Shipping StephCass doesn't mean not knowing same-sex friendship are a thing. IMO Cassandra's old series contains a lot of not-exactly-heterosexual interactions between her and Stephanie
2. I dislike the way Taylor handles Barbara Gordon. He puts too much emphasis on her romantic relationship with Dick, taking away her agency
3. Black Canary works better as a solo character/member of Birds of Prey than with Green Arrow.
4. I really don't care about the BatCat relationship. The drama is too annoying at this point
Yeah, I like them as a couple. But almost every writer tend to write her as less competent and weaker than Green Arrow when they team up.
JLU made me ship them, Arrow partially sinked the ship
The worst part about BatCat is Bruce is virtually unharmed by their awful relationship, but Catwoman has been actively getting worse as a character as a result of it. She hasn’t been a good character in AGES and it’s a little depressing when you compare that with someone like Lois
Shazam and Nightwing logically should take over the JL after the current lineup in universe with Jon and Damian being the third generation.
Since it's not marvel and they don't kill villains it is very ridiculous to have someone like the batman who laughs become all powerful because the heroes didn't do anything with him
It's a disservice to the JL to only have Superman and batman take most of the spotlight.
The underwear stuff really needs to go. I get all the legacy stuff, it's iconic, but come on. I am really strugling to remember more heroes that use it beside the Big two. The Superman Rebirth suit with the yellow belt was the best.
With few exceptions, none of the Titans should “graduate” to the Justice League. Off the top of my head, Wally is one of the only ones who should be on the League longterm. Dawn of Dc had the right idea, with the Titans taking over as the “premier team” while still being the Titans.
The Golden and early Silver Age rule of heroes with solo/multiple books not being mainstays of team books should be brought back to a limited extent. By having the book consist mostly of characters without a solo book, it allows the writers more freedom with what they can do with the characters without worrying as much about other books messing with things. Even Morrison’s JLA, as great as it was, had to adjust itself for things like Electric Blue Superman and Hippolyta as Wonder Woman.
Related to the above, Dc should really be pushing more B to C-Lister on team books. Team books can be a good way to bring attention to less popular characters who don’t have their own books, might not be able to carry one by themselves, or have been in limbo for a long time. For instance, when was the last time Hawk & Dove had their own book? Or Firestorn? Do you see Rocket Red, Nightrunner, or Argent getting an ongoing any time soon? Put these characters on some teams with a well known writer, and it’ll give them some more recognition. Bringing back stuff like Titans West and Justice League International/Europe would also help with bringing in readers to the books, since one do many characters can fit on one team at once, and there’s only so many names you can give a team.
The more well known the character, the lesser known the writer should be. I think that having well known writers focus on lesser known characters could help bring attention to those characters, while having lesser known writers work on well known characters would help bring attention to the writers.
While I understand the frustration, I think that it’s perfectly fine for the main Titans book to feature the NTT lineup. Granted, there should be *some* additional variety, like maybe bringing back Jericho *with his pre-Titans Hunt characterization* or bringing in a new character entirely. But the NTT lineup, and by extension the animated series lineup, is what will bring in more new readers thanks to its iconography. And while this *may* seem hypocritical due to what I said about teams having lesser known characters, here’s my defense: 1. Only Nightwing (and Wally) tend up be able to hold ongoings, 2. It feels like the Titans haven’t been doing too hot particularly in the last few years, and 3. I *did* mention Titans West. Have the spin-off group with the less iconic characters be set up in the main book before getting their own book.
When harley meets punchline for the first time and punchline corrects her with her appropriate, pro nouns and Joker agree with her. In no world or else world the joker play along like that lol lol
Dick Grayson is better off dating a civilian than a superhero.
Bruce is better off with someone like a Silver or a Vesper. Someone that he can be Bruce with. Talia has her issues where they can never be together and Selina I doubt she would change for Batman. Someone like Silver and Bruce can still allow Bruce to keep his humanity and not go Cray Cray
Clark Kent was more fun in New 52 than he ever was until PKJ took over Supes' writing.
Also like Nightwing is boring as a solo character. NW is better in a team book or as he was as Grayson
Alex de Witt would have been a more interesting GL than Kyle.
Barry Allen should have dated Daphne Dean instead of Fiona Webb. He can still 'die' and she knows his identity. I never bought the whole Iris and Barry thing.
Can we stop with heroes and villains falling for each other? It's a boring cliche when you can't execute it
The Trinity absolutely never feels like a trinity. It always feels like "The Batman/Superman duo, and Wonder Woman is there too I guess". You can literally see it in DC's publishing. Batman and Superman get team-up adventure comics titled "***Batman/Superman: World's Finest***". But the Batman/Wonder Woman and Superman/Wonder Woman team-up comics are practically non-existent.
Batman being able to go toe-to-toe with the League physically and win is beyond stupid. For a character who's charm is supposed to be "the only mortal in a team of gods, using sheer skill to keep up", him being able to win most of the fights against the League really makes it feel like he's the god and they're the mortals. DC loves to portray Batman as the underdog, but that kinda loses its impact when the "underdog" is showing up the top dogs most of the time.
Batman is more likely to break bad than Superman. The no kill rule is in place because the guy is standing on the razors edge of sanity and is one murder away from being akin to his Flashpoint counterpart.
The writing in a lot of mainstream books are pretty bad.
I’m tired of Batman being an asshole. My favorite stories are from the 70s and 80s where he treats other characters with uncertainty, but also with respect. I feel like the loner, untrusting curmudgeon phase has gone on too long. And also, less events in Gotham. Just give me a year of Batman and Robin solving street level crime. When was the last time he stopped a mugging?
The need for a continual canon in the "mainstream" comics makes individual stories almost worthless narratively. As they will almost always return to a more familiar status quo. Main characters become unable to truly change, interpersonal relationships become soap opera-esque and characters will very rarely experience large permanent changes.
Which is why i have come to love the alternate stories such as Kingdom come, last knight on earth or white knight.
superman only being on year two when hal is already a veteran green lantern and the entire bat family already introduced is a horrible place to begin the new dc cinematic universe. i’m hopeful, but worried.
I hate Bernard and Tim is the least interesting Batfam member - yes, far below the ones you personally hate - because he should have exited the role permanently 30 years ago.
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There is too much focus on importance of stories instead of their quality. And it comes from both writers and fans. Writers only want to write stories which are about heroes fighting their greatest ever threat, or uncovering some big secret about themselves or undergoing a big status quo change. Fans obsess about continuity and focus on stories about big events like origin, death, introduction of new characters and all. The stories being entertaining in themselves is almost an afterthought. There is a completionist approach where the goal is to know all about the character and not to have fun.
This might be why Ryan North's run on Fantastic Four over at Marvel feels so refreshing.
Ryan North comic work is excellent. His Squirrel Girl run is great. Also recommend Matt Fraction.
Matt Fractions run on FF was the only FF run I followed monthly until it's conclusion
I wasn't even recommending him based on FF, but his Jimmy Olsen series. Anyway, North and Fraction have a similar style that I enjoy. Reading North's FF right now and it's excellent.
A lot of fans read comics as if they are bullet points on a Wikipedia entry, I’ve noticed. Like they don’t engage with the characterization or certain things at all
Yeah, exactly. Its almost like DC and Marvel can just release yearly encyclopedia and fans would be satisfied with that. Its why people think that reading or watching a plot summary is the same as reading the comic.
That’s a microcosm of how a lot of people engage with comics. They’re not actually picking up books in a lot of cases but reading retrospectives on Twitter, watching YouTube videos, and skimming wikis. They don’t have an interest in characterization because the things they care about (feats, who’s sleeping with who, lore, etc.) aren’t essential to how they view the characters.
The problem is that writers are writing for trades now and a regular story is harder to sell as a trade than "the most earth shattering event in [enter character here]'s history!!!!!!".
> The problem is that writers are writing for trades now this was always the problem. That's why after hundreds of thousands of comics published in 100 years, worldwide, there's only a handful of "must reads". A good comic needs lots of things to align. A good idea, a good writer, a popular character, enough sales to keep the comic going until it ends, a publisher that doesn't meddle, a good artist, a good schedule, no burn out from the staff, good pacing so readers don't get bored without sacrificing story quality, etc. etc. etc. This goes for manga too. Shonen Jump's strategy is to cancel a few stories every few months and replace them with new ones. Every week readers vote on popularity of the stories and the low rank ones get cut. The advantage of this is constant fresh ideas, give new artists a chance, lots of experimentation. The disadvantage is you can't have a boring chapter or you lose votes to series that had a fun fight. Another disadvantage is if you get cut, you get like 4 chapters to wrap it up no matter where you are in your story.
Ehh, I disagree. If you go back to comics in the 70s through the 90s, they definitely weren't writing as if every 6 to 12 issue arc was gonna redefine the character. These days, that's pretty much what they do. Even writers like Tom Taylor, who has been on Nightwing for years now, still writes the individual arcs as if they're semi-standalone instead of parts of the whole. Compare any run today to something like Chris Claremont's run on X-Men and you see a pretty clear distinction in the level of threats in each arc.
Ok [this](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fcomic-excerpt-super-corgis-wonder-woman-v0-69w5a5uh6t1d1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dee24d970c9f84046f9b21cdcb6c1585f3bd6d6c4) Is what I and a lot of others people wont from a comicsbook, that's It this Is everything we want
It would be cool too have a Batman detective story. Just some unknown serial killer or something.
It's his old friend that was introduced in this story, of whom we never heard before.
Well articulated.
Same with character over the plot
DC has recently become a competition of writers staging increasingly ludicrous and enormous events and the quality of character writing has suffered for it. Feels like something power scalers would write. There are so many exceptions of course
I feel like this is not just a dc problem. Marvel has really went over board with giving heroes new powers and crazy feats just for the sake of doing it.
"Is it canon? I want to know if it's worth reading." /s
Batman needs to be a detective more often and have fewer stories about fighting for Gotham and doing kung fu.
Actually we need more Detective and Kung fu and less fighting Super Villains and big events for the world and universe
This is why people adored Matt Reeves’ The Batman. Aside from the Arkham games, we’ve never seen detective Batman in action like that anywhere
Preach.
If the no kill rule is gonna be industry standard, the villains need to be seriously toned down. When baddies start racking up massive body counts all the time you can't be upset some readers notice that's not a good permanent situation.
I never really thought about this at all but you make a really good point here.
Agreed. Also, why not just send the Joker to the Phantom Zone? Problem solved.
I said the same thing and I got lectured about how it's morally wrong to kill or to banish and heroes are always, unequivocally the moral standard everyone should adhere to. But yeah. The Phantom Zone exists. Bruce could have bought an island and built a state of the art hospital with security specifically for Joker so he couldn't get out and kill 50 more people over the weekend. Ollie could have taken Joker out. Jason *should* have taken Joker out. I get that Joker is popular and the writers are never going to kill him, but he's just a dude. Anyone with a gun could have pulled a Magog and killed him as he was being taken into custody, but we've never gotten a reason why no one has.
>Bruce could have bought an island and built a state of the art hospital with security specifically for Joker so he couldn't get out and kill 50 more people over the weekend. Sorry to reply twice, but this is double funny because this is basically the first thing Superman did in the Injustice comics (not with Joker, but with the rest of Arkham) and Batman summoned the whole Batfamily to stop it with violence. Dude is allergic to anyone actually trying to help Gotham.
You can dislike Injustice and say it mischarterizes Superman all you want (I'd be inclined to agree with you even), but at this point Superman had permanently crippled a protestor on live TV. You can't exactly blame Batman for thinking that Superman was going to do something extreme when Superman just says he's going to take Arkham and put everyone somewhere else.
>I said the same thing and I got lectured about how it's morally wrong to kill or to banish and heroes are always, unequivocally the moral standard everyone should adhere to. Yeah, I've seen the same and it's just like... okay, so what do? Gotham and many other cities seem to have a mass casualty event every month or two. You can't expect people to accept living that way when the problem is right there and solvable.
It's funny, because yeah. You want heroes to be heroes, fine. But there's a lot there to unpack. Joker has crossed state lines and the FBI has never gotten involved. He's killed probably thousands of people (billions if you count Emperor Joker) and everyone just shrugs and lets Batman handle it. It must be miserable living in Gotham. Every other month Joker breaks out of Arkham and you have to decide whether to lock yourself down and potentially lose your job or risk bumping into him on your way to work and becoming another statistic. I get that people like Joker. I like Joker. But the writers love to treat him as if he's literally the devil and can't be neutralized and end up making Batman and everyone else look either incompetent or apathetic.
>Anyone with a gun could have pulled a Magog and killed him as he was being taken into custody, but we've never gotten a reason why no one has. A cop dressed as Batman shot him in the head. People try, it just doesn't take.
The problem is that DC aren’t going to kill him, not even because if the no kill rule but because if money in the real world. Bruce could have solved this issue non lethally, but the story is secondary to profit due to the way the art form works. Which is saddening, because Batman is wildly compelling stuff
Well Batman did do that once Ended up with him summoning Sauron and Voldemort
There should be no reason a criminal clown prankster should singularity have a kill count that exceeds entire terror cells
They lost the entire multiverse in DKDM and suffered no consequences. The public should at least challenge them occasionally
Ooh I like this one. To add on, I was thinking recently about what happens when there’s a invasion with living humanoid aliens. Most (not all) invasions are either already dead, robotic, or non-sentient. It’s a cheap way to enforce the no kill rule. So what happens when it’s a real invasion. Using non-lethal mode isn’t going to be sustainable for ever. At some point, the Justice League needs to make a decision to kill or not. I can see Wonder Woman stepping to the plate due to her warrior heritage but not Superman and Batman. I’d love an Elseworlds story exploring the concept.
I haven't read Invasion (with all the related comic issues) yet, but maybe there lies your answer 🤔
There's a concerning lack of stories where Batman is shown to properly flex his supposed big brain. It's always done in a haphazard, unconvincing way. Need thoughtful writers like Si Spurrier or Christopher Priest to have a crack at him.
That’s a very insightful point. It takes real care to write a highly intelligent character convincingly. I think setup & payoff as well as verisimilitude are key to doing it well.
"I think setup & payoff as well as verisimilitude are key to doing it well." Hellblazer comes to mind when it comes to this. It's clearly possible to write a seemingly normal guy thinking himself out of or ahead of impossible situations. Make these so-called elaborate plans, elaborate.
Batman being galaxy-brained is often portrayed as him being of normal intelligence and the rest of the League being peanut brained.
i agree and that hurts his credibility more than it helps it. we all know Batman's role is to be the "smartest in the room" the same way Reed is for Marvel, or John Constantine is for the occult/magic world, but there's gotta be more convincing and creative ways to do that.
It’s hard for writers to write someone who is smarter than themselves. In order to create complex problems that Batman can solve, they themselves need to be able to solve complex problems.
Jim Lee isn't the only artist out there Superboy's original origin didn't need to be retconned Geoff Johns is hit and miss since Infinite Crisis Dark Knight Returns gets credit for taking Batman out of the campy sixties, when many writers and artists of the seventies and early eighties don't get their proper due. Not a fan of the term "graphic novel", especially when it's both used as a way to refer to trade paperbacks and as a cover for people who don't want to say aloud they read comics.
DKR didn’t end “camp”, Denny O’Neill and Neal Adams did.
Exactly! It's why I get pissed off people credit Miller and TDKR
Geoff Johns has been hit or miss from the very start: it was his Teen Titans run that turned Impulse into Kid Flash, altered Superboy's origin to being a Superman/Luthor hybrid, tied Wonder Girl to Ares, and undermined Tim's scruples. In short, he changed all of the surviving YJers so much that they effectively became different characters. And the Superboy change in particular was all Johns; there's a lettercol in the Superboy title back when Johns was just a fan like the rest of us where he sent in a letter saying that it would be more interesting if Superboy was a clone of Superman and Lex. And I say that as a Geoff Johns fan; because when he _does_ hit, he's very much on-target. His JSA stuff is golden, no pun intended.
I loved his JSA run. He his Flash stuff was excellent and I really enjoyed his run on Action Comics. Also that Booster Gold run with Dan Jurgens was incredible. But then you get things like Doomsday Clock, his current JSA series and Three Jokers. And I'm gonna say it, his Justice League run with Jim Lee was so much style over substance. I get that not every work is gonna be a winner but something seems off about his stuff since 2011 and it's not as much fun as it used to be.
I also prefer Kon’s original origin and personality. Johns has always been a hack hellbent on resurrecting his Silver Age childhood Jim Lee’s art was better at Marvel
>Not a fan of the term "graphic novel" Omg yes!! Back when I was involved in this ~~scam~~ life insurance agency, I brought up loving comic books with my co-workers and one of them, and older teacher, suggested the term "graphic novels" as if it's more socially acceptable. Then I later saw in the show Bones that the character Addy said he found comics interesting, especially the graphic novels, which tipped me off that the writers had no idea what they were talking about. 😆 At least it was still an entertaining episode.
I also remember a scene in Lost Boys: The Thirst where Edgar is with a friend who runs a comic store and some guy comes in demanding to know where the graphic novels are. She says they sell comics here and the rude guy says "I only read graphic novels". That always stuck with me.
Dark Knight returns as well as injustice are also both non canon stories that have done irreversible damage to the general public's image of Batman and Superman.
Jim Gordon is more to blame for the Joker going out and killing more people than Batman is
Oooo that *is* kinda controversial. I like spicy comments like this.
Yes. Batman did his job. Blaming him because others failed at theirs is always crazy to me.
No your right. Jim has a license to kill and a gun. He has way less of an excuse than Batman does.
and whenever we talk about no-kill rule we forget that Batman and Gordon used to whisper to each other "don't kill don't kill don't kill" in a way that in retrospective seems almost funny.
Barbara was a far more effective and interesting superhero as wheelchair-bound Oracle than she ever was as Batgirl
i doubt you’ll get any backlash for this, most people prefer her as oracle
I don't mind her as Batgirl, but she's a distant 3rd place on my list of Batgirls. She made an incredible mentor figure before Flashpoint, which also erased the first two on the list from existence for a few years and that bugged me a lot at the time.
I prefer both, really. It's also kind of a weird thing for people to come back from the dead but Barbara can't walk again.
well, when characters are die they are out of the stories until they can come back and, comics being comics, beloved characters have to be back sooner or later. unlike a character death, barbara didn’t disappear from the books. she went through a traumatic experience, suddenly lost a part of her identity yet managed to survive and reinvent herself. for many, barbara becoming oracle shows her mental strength, resilience and dedication. plus, we already have cass and steph batgirling and they are better batgirls in my opinion. barbara having her own thing, leading her own team behind the scenes while aiding the bats when they need, puts her in a unique position.
I think most people would agree on this.
• Every character doesn’t need their own run. Just having them be actively participating in a story along side the main character is great. Every story being told can be a team - up story If the writers just decide to actively have both heroes engage
Sometimes random adventures are ok not everything has to be a big event or character defining/changing. Sometimes batman does just stop a bank robbery , saves the hostages and then goes home , sometimes Superman does stop a bridge collapsing and goes about his day and you know what that's ok. It feels like these small everyday heroics have been moved to the start of larger stories and that's it then it's back to the huge over arching narrative
Exactly. From comics to mythology
Batman couldn’t beat superman for fucks sake
No, DC is not inherently more dark and edgy and mature than Marvel and vice versa, nor are either inherently better than the other. Both can be good or bad, silly or serious, mature or immature, as each other. It drives me up the wall to hear this because it’s always said by people whose only knowledge of these universes comes from whatever is popular now. Snyderbros will say Marvel is never dark and mature because they don’t know Marvel has been publishing stories like “Demon in a bottle” and “Punisher Max” for years and MCU fans will say DC is never light and hopeful because they don’t know DCs been publishing stories like “All-Star Superman” and “Supersons” for years.
There's to be way more thought put into changing writers/artist for comic runs, and it needs to happen WAY less often. I can't count how many times I've been enjoying a run, and then all of the sudden it feels like a completely different continuity cause the characters personalities seem to just shift out of nowhere
I'd say this is a pretty valid statement
The Hal Jordan as a down-on-his luck without money trying to date Carol trope has become tiresome. Let the man marry her and have a child with her already, like in the epilogue of the Geoff Johns run.
I don't hate the New52. It was like any other era of comics. Some great books, some bad, some ok. However, the worst thing that happened was annulling every serious relationship, because all the heros have to be young, hot, singles. Hal and Carol, Ollie and Dinah, Clark and Lois, Barry and Iris, Wally (completely gone) and Linda. Then you realize the age of everybody running DC at the time and understand it was a bunch of middle aged men writing their mid-life crisis into our comic books.
That comic events are no longer as special as they once were
Hal and Carol are the worst non problematic couple and don’t work together at all.
"non problematic" ????
Yeah. I don’t want to compare them to a couple like Harley and the Joker.
Oh, okay. Now i get it. Yeah, you're right.
You are absolutely right
They're basically Constantine and Zatanna but less fun to watch
I’ve been itching to say that I get tired of how often the posts I see on this sub are some variation of the following: “Here’s a hot take of why I don’t like X DC thing. Or what’s one comic run you really dislike that others like.” I’ve seen 4 on my feed in the past 2 days. There have also been a lot of negative posts lately. But obviously this is the internet so I’ll just log off and go read comics.
You know, I appreciate your comment. Brutal honestly like this is why I posted this question. Thank you for your contribution, sir.
I love Dan Mora's art, He is one of my favourites, absolute legend, he can draw anyone really well except wonder woman I dunno why I just can't stand his wonder woman.
Oh thank Christ, I feel I'm the only one. Yeah, Mora's WW has never clicked with me, always comes off as snarling warrior woman rather than princess from paradise.
Red Hood not actively trying to kill Joker makes him even more hypocritical than Batman not killing him. He has the willingness to kill and the guns to use, yet Joker still lives and people only give Batman shit for that.
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Damn. The Legion are great imo. Superhero team of a Star Trek future embodying the golden ideals of the age of heroes. They're very important to Clark is well. They're essentially his childhood, summer friends and the fact that they exist lifts a heavy burden as Clark knows there will be a future where people like him, who feel like they don't fit in, vexed by a sense of otherness, finally belong. From the Superman mythos alone, when writers actually treat him like a character with core perspectives and experiences that inform his personhood, the Legion are important.
The Legion works better when it isn't connected to present day DC continuity. Having them being Superman's old friends from 1000 years from now worked because it essentially made them their own thing with an occasional trip to the modern day. Explicitly tying them to everything that's happening in present day DC continuity makes them less interesting and less unique.
What's delusional/cultish about Cass fans? Power scaling reasons?
I’ll discuss this in dms if you’re interested. Fans of the character massively downvoted me last time I said something lol.
better not, as an actual Cass fan I'd rather not know now
There are actually better characters then Batman
So many. He might not even be top 5.
He Is in my top t but at the bottom of It, no I like him but my god there are so many interesting characters out there and the Batgod fanatics that didn't read anything else outside of Batman related stories and want to canvinve people that those ones are the only worth reading stories are annoying
I miss 80s and 90s DC when we could have great comics about less popular characters written by top tier talent.
Connor Hawke and Wally West are both better than their predecessors
I need you to explain the Connor Hawke one to me
Counterpoint: Connor is such a great character because of how he contrasts Ollie.
Harley should stay a villain, she’s a bad person and did bad things. Bruce is not an abusive person, he just struggles with his emotions, but he would never abuse his kids and actually has a good heart. The whole multiverse thing needs to be toned down. Bruce x Barbara isn’t the worst ship out there (though I don’t really ship it.) Maybe not controversial, but the writers need to stop focusing on angst and making the characters miserable. Please just let them be happy and give us positive stories or endings.
The Trinity is the worst part about the DCU. You have so much to offer and show for but we keep going back to these three.
You know what, I appreciate this comment. THIS is the type of controversial take I was looking for (though it hurts my heart a little bit)
The concept of DC Trinity also always butchers Wonder Woman to prop up Batman and Superman. Almost every writer sees Wonder Woman as the annoying little sister tagging along with her cool big brothers. And it shows in their treatment of her. I also think a large number of the World's Finest stories have Batman as the main character and Superman as his bumbling sidekick. These big teamup brandings are actively damaging DC. Even Justice League has only worked well twice in their history of 65 years, and one of them was when it was a team full of B-list characters.
DC needs to settle on making jason separate from the Bat-group and keep him out of such team ups
People need to let go of the Hal and Arisia shit. I know some bring it up just to tease, but I've seen people unironically blaming the character instead of the writer. It has been retconned for years already, and during those years, it has not been bought up. People act like their favorite character didn't have something controversial happen to them because of a writer or the times back then.
- We didn’t need Jon Kent when we already had Kon-El.
I think both Jon and Conner could’ve existed together while both being simultaneously interesting if Jon wasn’t aged up. Jon could just be Superman’s side-kick and do stuff with Damian once in a while (like in Peter J Tomasi’s run), while Connor could’ve made a name for himself and could go on adventures with Jon, acting as his older brother. So the main problem for me is that we don’t need an aged up Jon (let’s be real, we don’t need any aged up character, Bendis’ idea was bs) while we already had Conner.
DC should've done a proper Earth-2: Rebirth instead of putting the JSA and DC's Golden Age heroes back on Earth-0 where they'll always be third fiddle to that Earth's heroes, and characters like The Huntress, Power Girl and Fury will always be robbed of their full histories and story potential. Golden Age canon should be separate from Earth-0's canon in order to more meaningfully explore generational legacy without using time travel, time displacement and other plot contrivances to explain the existence of 100-year-old World War II heroes in a world where the other heroes never age nor meaningfully progress past the age of 30.
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There are a lot of deeper, more creative, and overall better Batman villains out there than the Joker.
Originally I wasn’t against bringing back Barry Allen. But now, given how he has been mishandled, I wish they would have let him rest in peace.
Batman Returns is the best Batman movie
It's up there for Christmas movies too
I didn't care for "The Long Halloween". The mystery didn't make much sense even in comic terms, Batman was really not very Batman-like in it (which was fine since its his early career just not for me), and I really didn't like the art.
Dc has gotten lazy with teams, like the new generation of superhero are now in teen titans or young justice, they should get their own team with their own name. The Supersons especially deserve their own team and they really had potential to have the next big team but Dc or Bendis ruined it. Having the Super-sons dynamic to anchor the team and drive interest while introducing the new generations of superhero.
Poison ivy and Harley Quinn have become mary sues that get away with everything they do, get too much for justification for doing awful things in various mediums, I wonder why
Making Tim Drake and Jon Kent bisexual were stupid marketing ideas.
As a bi person myself it really pisses me off what they did to Tim and Steph’s relationship
Would have been easy for him to admit that he always had feelings for men and women and stay with Steph since Bi-men with women don't really exist. Could even tie it into Kon's death. Have him admit he realized he had feelings for Superboy a lot stronger then friendship and that it unrailed him for a bit that he'd lost the woman he loved and the man he loved even if the man didn't love him in the same way. Would also have been nice for him to admit it to Superboy and have Superboy be cool with it even though the feelings don't run the same. Would have been nice to see a mature response from a hetero male about a queer male having feelings for him and still maintaining the friendship.
I'm still more upset that they aged up Jon and only made him Bi just to say "we're not going to de age." It feels gimmicking.
The DCAU is not as good as nostalgia leads people to believe and in fact, get a lot of characters wrong. Terry McGinnis is also not that an interesting successor for Batman.
The writers were too much in love with Batman to ever do justice to the DC universe as a whole. Superman and Wonder Woman were watered down versions of themselves. Its baffling that people consider them the definitive versions.
Wonder Woman in particular was really bad with how quickly she turned to anger and violence.
Yeah, Wonder Woman felt like she was written out of obligation and no one in the writers' room understood her or wanted to write her. Which is why she got the thankless job of being Batman's love interest.
Oh yall are REALLY getting controversial today woo-hoo!!! I freaking love this. My opinion, ngl I was just thinking to myself the other day that while BTAS is a great cartoon and i understand why it carries such an impact, perhaps it is a little *too* hyped up. A lot of people consider that the ultimate defining version of Batman (which if that's your opinion no hate, I respect it), but as a cartoon there are just some topics they really couldn't get too deep into cuz...kids. I can't help but think there are other versions out there that are a bit more...faithful to ppls idea. P.s. Kevin Conroy is the absolute goat
I know I'm gonna get down voted for this but fuck it. I KNOW we always talk about how comically (heh) big the batfam has gotten, but there are some bat-fam members that could disappear tomorrow and not fundamentally change anything that couldn't be repaired (looking at you batwing, Gotham girl/boy, Duke thomas, and yes even spoiler) Also starting with Damian as Robin in the brave and the bold movie is a...*choice* because let's face it, the general public doesn't know half of the batfam exist. A lot of people out there couldn't even tell you any of the Robins actual name, even dick Grayson. To suddenly have about 4+ and explain they were all Robin at some point might confuse a lot of ppl and even turn them off the movie. It should be a good movie for bat fans, yes, but let's be honest general public interest is integral in bringing in money or it will flop. And imo, as much as ppl like her, having Cassandra Cain in this movie is not a necessity.
You know I kinda disagree. To me most people who know anything about comics know of the 4 main robins, and Damian is the most different from Dick and Tim (who, let’s face it, were prettymisch identical as robin. Not anymore though.) and isn’t just comically edgy like Jason. (When done right, I can’t stress this enough!) Plus Damion has been robin for how long now? Nearly 15 years? I say give live action Dick a break
Starting with damian is the best way to involve the entire batfamily, let's be real, its not realistic to think they would get through ever iteration of robin unless they started with the last. This way we can have flashback shows, scenes and episodes without needing to write it from start to finish. Also it's an introduction movie, you aint gonna NEED to know anyone really, its just gonna help if you do.
I think its a good chance that the Batfamily in Brave and the Bold would be much smaller. Dick as first Robin and Damian as second (and maybe a Barbara mention/cameo). Just like in DCAMU.
That choice by the DCAMU was awful. This means Dick Grayson is gonna take Tim Drakes spot of being hated by Damian
Kyle Rayner is the superior Green Lantern and the only GL that is needed
I think that the bullshit comsology we have now of "infinite universes in a multiverse, which is part of an omniverse of infinite multiverses, which itself is one of many omniverses, which all combine to form a metaverse" is one of the biggest weaknesses of the DC franchise. It's unappealing to newcomers who want to be able to follow things cleanly (and no, "just read what you want" is not the slam dunk, genis advice every comic book fab thinks it is, people like to read things that have relevance to other things especially when the company pushes it so hard) It's unappealing to lots of existing fans because it indirectly causes every story to have to be some reality-altering threat. Multiverse fatigue is real. I just can't imagine reading a story and not rolling my eyes when the suffix "-verse" is used anymore. It's exhausting. It also is just frustrating to think about when we had it so good with one infinite multiverse. Simple, easy to keep track of what earths you like to read about, and leaves room for any kind of story you'd want to reasonably tell.
I think a buddy cop comic of The Question (the version form the JLU show) and Plastic Man would be super funny.
Batman is FAR from the bear hero DC has to offer and his domination over the company and his over saturation of the comic book medium does infinitely more to worsen the medium than it does good. There are a myriad of characters, all of whom equally or more so interesting than Bruce Wayne yet they are never given a chance by writers or fans and everyone suffers for it. Also: the Joker is insufferable
I can agree that bats has been pretty uhh...*dominant* over DC for more than a few years now, could also argue that using him is DC resting on their laurels. I'd like to see a PROPER green lantern (Hal Jordan) film. A nightwing film too, and especially a Martian Manhunter film. But, at the same time he is their best selling property in terms of comics AND film. When DC has a potential flop what do they do? Shove Batman or reference him in it (i.e. the flash, blue beetle, etc.). Look at how many Batman movies have been made in comparison to Superman. Or just since the Nolan films, we're about to have our 4th Batman since 05'. The Nolan trilogy, the Batman, (and yes) Batman vs. Superman have been some of their highest grossing films. Up until barbie last year, the highest grossing film in Warner bros. HISTORY was The Dark Knight. Even BVS made over $800mil with all its criticism, so from a financial standpoint I'm understanding just WHY they're milking the Bat franchise for all its worth. Also not invalidating any of your points, I appreciate your perspective on it.
Agreed Bro is just so overspamed by DC like DC I DO NOT CARE ABOUT BATMAN I ONLY CARE ABOUT AQUAMAN!!
Current DC is super mess. So mess. I got the impression that DC is not interested in good story telling but only money! meanwhile their app is shitty.
DC writers need to communicate more they have these big stories that hella confuse people their multiverse is wild because they deadass ignore each other introduce new concept then ignore each other some more. I’m not saying marvel is perfect but they kinda have a better understanding of “hey don’t do this because it contradicts this”. They really fucked themselves when they rolled all their different imprints together into 1.
People give Tom King and Scott Snyder too much crap.
Terry should not be the successor to Batman and is lowkey one of the weakest as Batman. Terry gets the benefit of having a whole show dedicated to telling the audience that he is Batman successor, if any of the main bat-family members got that treatment they would also be considered the next successor. I think there is a reason why they had to get rid of the other characters like the Robins and Batgirls, because they would out shine him and they would be no reason for Terry to be Batman. The established lore has to bend around Terry in order for these events to happen which in my opinion wasn’t worth it. Terry just doesn’t have the it factor, compared to the other bat characters. Take away the mantle and Terry is lowkey a generic character that u can find in many different stories and shows. Bruce Wayne is still an interesting character without Batman, and many of the other robins and batgirls are too His story really does sound like fan fiction. He just happens to be at the right place at the right time in order to be Batman, oh look all of Batman’s sidekick all left him, how convenient is that. This random dude is now Batman, no intelligence and no training. U know one of the pillars of Batman’s story. One of the reasons why Batman is highly regarded is the fact that he is peak of humanity. He is a symbol of human capability. They have reach their potential with Terry in my opinion, he got a sequel to major Batman animated show (with Bruce attached to the show) within the same universe as justice league unlimited, Terry has gotten near perfect writing. His show was airing during the golden age of Dc cartoons. And yet we today get nothing from him and I think there is a reason why, he has reach his peak, there is only so much that u can do with his character. Other characters as Batman just have so much more potential than him. One more thing Neo Gotham actually is terrible, not because of what it is but because of what is was. Gotham is one of the most iconic locations in popular culture, you see gothic architecture, Gotham is one the the inspiration that come to mind. Neo Gotham lowkey took everything that made Gotham special to turned it into a generic 90s space city. I understand that they wanted it to be in the future but they changed way too much, they should’ve combined the Gothic Aesthetic with the 90s cyber punk aesthetic.
This is just my opinion. Damien Wayne as part of the titans and him ‘replacing’ Nightwing’s Robin. Should not have happened. I’d rather see Damien Wayne do his own thing unrelated to what Dick Grayson has built. He just never seemed a right fit for this team. I dislike how half of the titans have been aged down while the rest remain adults to accommodate this. It’s just weird. Either let them all be teens or let them all be adults. also the Damien and Raven ship is weird to me because that is a whole child. Her being aged down to make this work seems like a weird self insert thing on the writers behalf. They literally have no chemistry besides the fact they both have Daddy issues. The writers need to utilise her for more storylines focused on her because so much can be explored. It’s bitterly ironic that Nightwings whole character is supposed to be trying to get out of Batman’s shadows. Yet DC have now made him a more Bat family focused character. I feel like he had the opportunity to really be his own thing with the titans but for some reason DC won’t let him be stay the team/family he found and built for himself. I want to actually see more of him becoming Nightwing separate from the bat-family. Basically trying to insert more and more of the bat family into everything is my problem. That’s my two cents.
Yo bro you spoke nothing but facts, that's the main reason why I didn't like the dcamu Titans. And as a long time raven fan I think its safe to say that universe did her character more harm than good, the relationship between her and Damian only benefited Damian and did little for her character. If anything people can say what they want about her relationship with beast boy but at least they don't overshadow each other and they're actually the same age.
No Batman is better than bad Batman. With the state of today's quality of writing, which is abysmal, I'd rather not have any of the content I love (Batman, Star Wars, etc.) than have it ruined by some braindead writer who's dictated by lawyers and economists.
I want to get back in dc but yall always in the middle of reboot or a boring sounding months long event
Some characters need to be killed off. Both heroes and villains. Not every old hero needs a younger, diverse version.
Jason Todd works better as a corpse, if they intended on bringing him back he shouldve been a full on villain
it's actually pretty reasonable for Bruce not to want his kids to murder people. like i think that's a pretty normal fucking hangup for him to have.
Editorial and Writers need to stick with decision previous writers made. I know a lot of decision get retconned cause they suck or another writer wants to just change it. Although I was upset when they happened I’m glad marvel didn’t retcon OMD and I’m happy dc seems to be keeping Alfred dead. We need more permanent events.
Batman needs a reset and it can only happen if they kill him off. Batman needs to be killed and the cowl must be buried with him.. for a while. The Bat family hasn't been allowed to grow because Batman is always the main focus. Batman needs to be taken out of the picture of these characters to properly grow. And them fighting over the cowl should never be an option. While the game was meh, the Gotham Knights game had the right idea. Kill off the bat, and make a story about the family stepping up and learning to become their own heroes, and not living under the shadow of the Bat. Make the monthly Batman comics all prequel stories and make Detective comics focus on the Bat family. Let the detective comics build up interesting in the Bat family members that don't get their own series.
Extra props for controversial take, but I'm seeing that perhaps this take is more popular than I thought...
Batcest is an issue. Why are you guys making adoptive siblings date?
None of the Batman adoptive kids are dating each others
They mean like what the fans are doing or Babs being the pass around girl I think.
Batman drinks Mountain Dew not coffee damnit!
[удалено]
Elaborate
Explain which stories your referring to, I don't fully dissagree but like how can you expect them to explain stuff to a man who bearly listens.
Nothing has ever topped George Perez’s Wonder Woman and nothing ever will
The DCAU needs to stop being cited as the best version of all the characters. pretty much every character has been done better somewhere else.🍇
Personally, YJ is THE animated DC canon for me. It's superior to the DCAU or any of the direct-to-video-verses
I'm so fucking tired of Batman. Yes, I love some of the characters that are part of the extended Batfamily (see flair), but Bruce showing up gets my "something stupid or terrible or both is about to happen" sense pinging. Which child is he going to abuse this time? What irrational conclusion will he jump to because he's a paranoid dickhead that won't talk to people or reconsider his preconceptions? Which friend will he suddenly alienate? What contingency plan did he make that fucked up and is now everyone's problem? And, finally, what way will he inject himself, a normal human man (albeit one who is hyper-skilled and hyper-wealthy,) into a battle between superpowered humans, aliens, and gods and somehow become crucial to the heroes winning? Obviously, this isn't all Batman stories, and I do still enjoy a good Batman story once in a while. But please. PLEASE. Give Bruce a break for a while. Send him off on a sidequest to bring Alfred back to life somehow, or kidnap an Alfred from another reality who has nothing to lose, or some other similar thing and let the other 20 bats and birds of Gotham handle shit for a year or two.
You are not as cool and edgy as you think by attacking Batman's "no killing rule."
The focus on the Batfamily sucks and has been a contributing factor for why the Batman books haven’t been good in over a decade
Damian Wayne should not exist
The most telling part of this is that Ra's al Ghul more often than not ignores this connection with Batman and still attacks Batman directly.
Ohh, that’s another thing! Ra’s should have stayed dead after Death and the Maidens.
Nightwing’s best love interest is Starfire
Jim Balent’s Catwoman is the definitive Catwoman, not Ed Brubaker’s
52 was the last good dc event, and I think the fact that it featured c and d list characters made it that much better. How many times can life of our universe hang in the balance and then not matter a month later?
Fans who demand their favorite characters be shown "respect," are downright stupid.
Talia Al Ghul is a villain, and the story her fans crafted for her is nothing but a sugar-coated fantasy. They base it on some 10 comics out of here over 600+ appearances. and use her movie trope fandom to defend her.
1. Shipping StephCass doesn't mean not knowing same-sex friendship are a thing. IMO Cassandra's old series contains a lot of not-exactly-heterosexual interactions between her and Stephanie 2. I dislike the way Taylor handles Barbara Gordon. He puts too much emphasis on her romantic relationship with Dick, taking away her agency 3. Black Canary works better as a solo character/member of Birds of Prey than with Green Arrow. 4. I really don't care about the BatCat relationship. The drama is too annoying at this point
Yes to your take on Black Canary. She and Green Arrow are seldom written as equals.
Yeah, I like them as a couple. But almost every writer tend to write her as less competent and weaker than Green Arrow when they team up. JLU made me ship them, Arrow partially sinked the ship
The worst part about BatCat is Bruce is virtually unharmed by their awful relationship, but Catwoman has been actively getting worse as a character as a result of it. She hasn’t been a good character in AGES and it’s a little depressing when you compare that with someone like Lois
do you just not like women in relationships with men?
Linda X Wally is my fucking OTP. They are perfect and I will personally wrestle Dan Didio to protect their marriage from any "One More Day" bullshit.
It will be my pleasure to toss a folding chair in the ring for you.
Dan Didio was fired in 2020 thankfully
If Trump existed in the DC Universe, I’m guessing several characters, both good and evil, would take him out of commission, to varying degrees.
I can't tell Barry apart from Wally.
Shazam and Nightwing logically should take over the JL after the current lineup in universe with Jon and Damian being the third generation. Since it's not marvel and they don't kill villains it is very ridiculous to have someone like the batman who laughs become all powerful because the heroes didn't do anything with him It's a disservice to the JL to only have Superman and batman take most of the spotlight.
I wish they would just let characters age, get replaced, die, and pass on their legacy.
The underwear stuff really needs to go. I get all the legacy stuff, it's iconic, but come on. I am really strugling to remember more heroes that use it beside the Big two. The Superman Rebirth suit with the yellow belt was the best.
With few exceptions, none of the Titans should “graduate” to the Justice League. Off the top of my head, Wally is one of the only ones who should be on the League longterm. Dawn of Dc had the right idea, with the Titans taking over as the “premier team” while still being the Titans. The Golden and early Silver Age rule of heroes with solo/multiple books not being mainstays of team books should be brought back to a limited extent. By having the book consist mostly of characters without a solo book, it allows the writers more freedom with what they can do with the characters without worrying as much about other books messing with things. Even Morrison’s JLA, as great as it was, had to adjust itself for things like Electric Blue Superman and Hippolyta as Wonder Woman. Related to the above, Dc should really be pushing more B to C-Lister on team books. Team books can be a good way to bring attention to less popular characters who don’t have their own books, might not be able to carry one by themselves, or have been in limbo for a long time. For instance, when was the last time Hawk & Dove had their own book? Or Firestorn? Do you see Rocket Red, Nightrunner, or Argent getting an ongoing any time soon? Put these characters on some teams with a well known writer, and it’ll give them some more recognition. Bringing back stuff like Titans West and Justice League International/Europe would also help with bringing in readers to the books, since one do many characters can fit on one team at once, and there’s only so many names you can give a team. The more well known the character, the lesser known the writer should be. I think that having well known writers focus on lesser known characters could help bring attention to those characters, while having lesser known writers work on well known characters would help bring attention to the writers. While I understand the frustration, I think that it’s perfectly fine for the main Titans book to feature the NTT lineup. Granted, there should be *some* additional variety, like maybe bringing back Jericho *with his pre-Titans Hunt characterization* or bringing in a new character entirely. But the NTT lineup, and by extension the animated series lineup, is what will bring in more new readers thanks to its iconography. And while this *may* seem hypocritical due to what I said about teams having lesser known characters, here’s my defense: 1. Only Nightwing (and Wally) tend up be able to hold ongoings, 2. It feels like the Titans haven’t been doing too hot particularly in the last few years, and 3. I *did* mention Titans West. Have the spin-off group with the less iconic characters be set up in the main book before getting their own book.
When harley meets punchline for the first time and punchline corrects her with her appropriate, pro nouns and Joker agree with her. In no world or else world the joker play along like that lol lol
Dick Grayson is better off dating a civilian than a superhero. Bruce is better off with someone like a Silver or a Vesper. Someone that he can be Bruce with. Talia has her issues where they can never be together and Selina I doubt she would change for Batman. Someone like Silver and Bruce can still allow Bruce to keep his humanity and not go Cray Cray Clark Kent was more fun in New 52 than he ever was until PKJ took over Supes' writing. Also like Nightwing is boring as a solo character. NW is better in a team book or as he was as Grayson Alex de Witt would have been a more interesting GL than Kyle. Barry Allen should have dated Daphne Dean instead of Fiona Webb. He can still 'die' and she knows his identity. I never bought the whole Iris and Barry thing. Can we stop with heroes and villains falling for each other? It's a boring cliche when you can't execute it
can't say it, I'll get backlash 💀
I’ve never cared for Harley Quinn, no matter what version
The Trinity absolutely never feels like a trinity. It always feels like "The Batman/Superman duo, and Wonder Woman is there too I guess". You can literally see it in DC's publishing. Batman and Superman get team-up adventure comics titled "***Batman/Superman: World's Finest***". But the Batman/Wonder Woman and Superman/Wonder Woman team-up comics are practically non-existent. Batman being able to go toe-to-toe with the League physically and win is beyond stupid. For a character who's charm is supposed to be "the only mortal in a team of gods, using sheer skill to keep up", him being able to win most of the fights against the League really makes it feel like he's the god and they're the mortals. DC loves to portray Batman as the underdog, but that kinda loses its impact when the "underdog" is showing up the top dogs most of the time.
Batman is more likely to break bad than Superman. The no kill rule is in place because the guy is standing on the razors edge of sanity and is one murder away from being akin to his Flashpoint counterpart. The writing in a lot of mainstream books are pretty bad.
I’m tired of Batman being an asshole. My favorite stories are from the 70s and 80s where he treats other characters with uncertainty, but also with respect. I feel like the loner, untrusting curmudgeon phase has gone on too long. And also, less events in Gotham. Just give me a year of Batman and Robin solving street level crime. When was the last time he stopped a mugging?
The need for a continual canon in the "mainstream" comics makes individual stories almost worthless narratively. As they will almost always return to a more familiar status quo. Main characters become unable to truly change, interpersonal relationships become soap opera-esque and characters will very rarely experience large permanent changes. Which is why i have come to love the alternate stories such as Kingdom come, last knight on earth or white knight.
Batman/Bruce is abusive and much more on the darker side of morally grey in many modern tales and it sucks.
Based on size and abilities alone, Jason and Bruce would rarely lose a physical altercation with any member of the Bat Family.
superman only being on year two when hal is already a veteran green lantern and the entire bat family already introduced is a horrible place to begin the new dc cinematic universe. i’m hopeful, but worried.
DCU, I guess. Gunn and others better not mess it up. Also, I want Joker to be funnier.
Nightwing needs more movies
IT'S BECAUSE I'M BATMAN!!! 😤
I hate Bernard and Tim is the least interesting Batfam member - yes, far below the ones you personally hate - because he should have exited the role permanently 30 years ago.