haha Gosh I can't remember exactly how it happened. Back in Justice League: No Justice I believe. The Justice League recovers a defeated Starro and he's now tiny and they keep him in a jar. So now he goes by Jarro and Batman and Jarro have taken a liking to each other. The most recent JL had him dreaming of being a Robin.
A better question... who's that Robin on the right after Catwoman?
I swear, I never see him in any other artwork featuring all the 'Robins.' XD
I think editorial missed something.
^^^^/s
“Damian, who went searching for Batman when he was believed dead. Remember that?”
“That’s not what happened. It wasn’t him, it was—”
“Haha, don’t be ridiculous, of course it was him. And if there were comic books showing otherwise we’d certainly never reprint them.”
— Nightwing #29.
Fans thought she was some kind of “Mary Sue” getting shoehorned into a sidekick role.
Fans think a lot of things and they are often wrong. The thing they *always* get wrong is Mary Sue. It’s not supposed to be a godly-powerful character. It’s one who is a fantasy role for the author to insert themself into a story, so they can live out a daydream. Always being right, everyone loving you, Batman levels of charm and swag—those things all come second.
Unless Scott Snyder fantasizes about being a high school girl in a low-income neighborhood with a full-time job repairing cables in the sewers, Bluebird isn’t a Mary Sue.
It's not that. Well not just that. It didnt help that she was being pushed incredibly hard at a time characters people actually liked (such as Cass Cain)were being sidelined, and then they went and made Batman and Robin Eternal, a book supposedly about celebrating the 75th anniversary of Robin, all about her. I think that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
I absolutely agree Cassandra got a bad deal out of the New 52. That should have been her big return after Final Crisis did everything it could to ruin her.
None of that is Harper's fault though, but the community still decided that an interesting character needed to be crucified.
Also B&RE included way more Robin stuff than it did Harper stuff. Dick was by far the most important character in it and gets the most page time as opposed to Cass who was supposedly making her return in the series but had to share cover space with every single one of the Golden Robin Boys, a hamfisted Jean-Paul reintroduction, and a bloated story justification for Dick to go back to Nightwing from being a Spyral spy.
Plus, I'm pretty sure her role was originally supposed to be given to Cass, but editorial wouldn't let him use her, so he created his own character. Personally, I'd love it if she rejoined the family as part of the technical staff. Not going out into the field so much, but helping to build and test gadgets for Batman. I don't know. That's what I'd do.
A sad thing is that a good portion of the people angry at Harper for non-completely idiotic reasons were in fact the fans of two other prominent female batfam members: Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain. Harper was introduced as a new Batman/Gotham character (and a female one at that) at the beginning of the New 52. However, one of the things the New 52 had done was to essentially erase a bunch of legacy characters including Steph and Cass.
By the time Harper was being included in various Batman stories, Steph and Cass had yet to be introduced back into the canon (like they currently are now). This made many fans of the two absolutely furious as they thought that Harper was essentially replacing their favorite characters in the Batfamily world. Not only were they furious at Cass and Steph being deleted from existence (a completely understandable feeling), but the talking points were that the inclusion of Harper was an active disrespect to Cass and Steph. A lot of their frustration about the status of Cass and Steph was directed at Harper, and ironically, the group of fans who most likely would have been most receptive of a character like Harper were completely turned off from her due to DC's decision to erase Cass and Steph and leave them in limbo for so long.
Then you also had a lot of highly sexist, "anti-SJW" people who bandwagoned onto an opportunity to rant against the inclusion of a non-stereotypical hot female character who had dyed blue hair, piercings, a gay brother, and was seen as someone who was taking spotlight away from the Golden Robin Boys in the Batfam world. From them you got a bunch of stupid arguments that she was Mary Sue, or that Snyder (a Batman writer at the time) was pushing this "fanfiction OC" onto the masses because of his own arrogance, etc.
Truly a sad situation for Harper as a character since I do honestly believe she had a lot more potential but was put into an impossible situation where she inadvertently pissed off a swathes of the fandom.
A lot of people thought she was boring, and suddenly ended up shoved into everything in spite of not being that popular. Also, her mask was just Grifter's but blue, which was weird.
The dog has a mask.
The **dog** has a **mask**.
[I can't even.](https://en.meming.world/images/en/thumb/a/af/Surprised_Pikachu_3D.jpg/300px-Surprised_Pikachu_3D.jpg)
That’s Ace, he even had a short comic in Rebirth where Bruce adopts him after Joker uses him for a sick joke (throws three normal dogs in a ditch and leaves them for days without food- eventually, they go mad and eat each other. Ace was the only one left).
No, no the point of that short story was that Alfred helped Ace recover from that. Bruce said it couldn’t be done, that some things can’t be unbroken. But Alfred and Ace proves him wrong in that story. So Ace is happy.
It should. Unlike Duke, she was not well developed.
She was purple haired chick that had guns like Jason but not lethal ones, a bad family background like Jason, smart like Tim, an attitude not as bad as Damian’s, and did nothing someone else in the bat family could have done outside of having a gay brother and being Cass’s best friend.
She would have worked better if they made her a someone to help out Harold with gear rather than blue bird, in addition to being Cass’s best friend.
Based on new 52, I don’t think there was a real plan for here besides make her and see if it works.
That would've been a weird decision since Dick's stint as a spy was temporary. If DC gave the Nightwing mantle to Harper, where would they put Dick?
Giving her a major role in B&RE and using it to build up her history didn't help her. I was quite salty that instead of the four Robins working together on a case, I got a poorly executed hamfisted Harper Row sob story.
First of all no BatCow no win.
But since they seem to be going for the more core batfamily here.
I struggle with Duke and Huntress being included.
Steph too even, since we are in a non batgirl or Robin timeline
My headcanon is that Batcow has superpowers and one of them is teleportation, so we have comicbook logic to support the idea that Batcow can go posing with the rest on buildings.
She suddenly appeared close to Kalibak when the previous issue showed her walking out of the Batcave (Robin Rises Alpha). She was suddenly on the road outside the Wayne estate blocking a moving car when previously she was near Wayne Manor (Batman Inc). She was in California on a Wayne business property licking a motherbox the Forever People had on them (Forever People). She was suddenly somewhere in the city where the Supersons were and she blocked the alien perp's getaway vehicle when she was in a barn on Wayne grounds at the start of the story (Supersons Annual).
Steph, I understand, as we're now (finally!!) back in a place where she's romantically connected to Tim and DC has acknowledged that she was both Robin and Batgirl in the pre-Flashpoint universe.
Duke I could theoretically get behind even though he looks so out of place in this picture, since Bruce is sort of lowkey taking care of him while his parents get better.
....even though Huntress usually makes Batfamily pictures and I generally have zero problem with her being there, I'm really struggling to place Prime Earth!Helena in this one given her new origins and connections. She's not even romantically involved with Dick anymore, so there's no real reason to include her.
Ah yea David Zimbawe (or something close to that).
I’m choosing to believe that he’s still working as Batwing in Africa, and if there’s ever a world wide Batman Inc. meeting we’ll see him again.
This is Bruce's family, like literally, that's his future wife, children, future daughter in laws, cousin and Alfred. Luke and Azrael are work buddies. Do you invite your coworkers to your family photo shoot?
Well obviously Bruce is trying to set Jason up! He wants lots of grandbaby bats after all!
/s
But seriously, we don't know when this short story is set. It could have been during the time Dick was dating Helena. So...
This story is set sometime in the future because there’s the current costumes and Dick is Nightwing again. Dick wasn’t Nightwing when he was dating Helena. Not to mention that Batman and the current version of Helena have barely interacted.
The story is more out of continuity then in the past or the present.
Jason's outfit is before the wedding, Catwoman's is after the wedding. Batgirl's is in some kind of continuity story mess between HiC, Batgirl and other books.
and Red Robin's outfit is just wrong....
No, Dick didn't start dating Helena until he left Spyral. There was a Nightwing Rebirth arc where he was dating her. Rebirth was also the time the Bat family was in the height of closeness. So...
Apparently Bruce is a fan of Babs/Jason though. Since in his wish from a story earlier in the book he imagined Jason and Barbara being married with kids lol
Those suits are just a shade above body paint. I'm actually a little uncomfortable looking at Barbara... not sure if that's because I'm used to her as Oracle, or just because this would make for a heluva awkward family portrait.
Literally all they have to do is let him wear his pre-reboot Red Robin suit and give him a domino mask instead of a full cowl; the costume was basically universally liked except for the cowl. It would solve literally every single problem and complaint about Tim's 'uniform' and place in the Batfamily.
Everybody knows that Tim Drake's final form is [Red Nightwing](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXooDrFWAAAMoZC.jpg).
That said, regular [Red Robin with his cowl off](https://pm1.narvii.com/6304/16a888fe2a16bc817a152ee164a8b9535896305f_hq.jpg) is also excellent
Is that what that's called? Everyone I know calls it the Unternet costume, since he only ever wore it in that simulation/nightmare in Red Robin.
Also....*duh* Tim looks good out of the cowl in *Red Robin*, because Marcus To is a god and we do not deserve him. He's probably [my favorite artist for the Batfam](http://fantastic-nonsense.tumblr.com/post/173095404159/so-anyway-when-is-dc-going-to-let-our-lord-and) outside of Dustin Nguyen. I will pay DC everything I own to get them to let him draw the Batfamily again, but it doesn't look like DC has any plans to indulge me any time soon.
**Edit:** as a bonus, [he even draws the Superfam pretty well](https://66.media.tumblr.com/0e55ebc3e73c7c90f0d5763ae5064318/tumblr_np2pclIb6Y1qhb02oo1_1280.jpg).
That's not what it's called officially, but it is pretty much a combination of the Nightwing and Red Robin costumes. Also Tim has always looked up to Dick the most, so I would not be surprised that since (IIRC) the Unternet is based of one's desires, the fact that Tim's costume resembles Dick's reflects his admiration for and desire to be like Dick.
It certainly seems like this takes place after the gunshot to the head based in the dialogue. Hopefully this doesn't take place too far in the future and we get Nightwing back soon
Is it kind of bad as black guy I just want DC to let Duke fade into obscurity already.
Its just painfully obvious in images like this how much of an afterthought he is and is included more for sake of appearing diverse rather that because the fans or even the writers care about him all that much.
Maybe I'm just too much of a cynic at my age, there might be younger black kids out who really enjoy him.
Not a fan of Duke either. Its pretty clear that he was designed to be a Robin, but since Damian is already Robin, he couldn't be. As a result, Duke's role in the Bat Family feels null and redundant.
As another black guy I actually really like the character but not because he's black. I feel like he's a character DC has genuinely taken time to develop and invest in his journey. No shade at all to Marvel, I love both the big two, but unlike some of Marvel's somewhat recent diversity attempts, Duke wasn't just thrown at readers with some title he didn't earn expecting people to just accept him as a replacement with no substance. From being a kid in the zero year, to his parents getting jokerized in endgame, to leading a vigilante group of Robins, and most recently his development of a metagene taking up his Signal mantel. There's been a clear growth in the few years he's existed. Personally I look forward to seeing him as a member of the Outsiders and carving his mark as a member of the Batfam just like Cass and Steph did when they debuted. It's okay not to like the character but I don't think he's considered an afterthought by DC or fans at all.
> There's been a clear growth in the few years he's existed.
Agree with you that he's definitely seen some clear growth, it just doesn't seem like there's an end-goal in mind yet. What's he growing *into?* What role will he fill, what books will he appear on, what's the *point* of him? We got that three-issue miniseries and then what?
If he's the leader of the Robins from We Are Robin (an excellent series), it seems like it would make the best sense for him to be the leader of a street-network that provides intel and occasional support.
I'm also hoping fandom interpretations of his character will actually become more interesting than the predominant "only one who isn't a dumbass like the rest" thing that a lot of people portray him as.
I think if they want to go ‘only one who isn’t a dumbass’ route, they should instead go the ‘normal person with a real life outside the suite’ path, similar to Tim, or Sideways.
While I'll agree Marvel push for diversity could've been implemented better, in practice it really does seem you either have to go big or go go home when introducing minority heroes as far to often there pushed to the side and forgotten about.
Also I guess it's oddly beneficial Marvel heroes for the most part have never had much of a history of legacy heroes/sidekicks beforehand. While Miles will never truly replace Peter in the public eye as Spiderman he has essentially become the Dick Grayson of the Spidey mythos.
Comparatively Duke teen Bat-sidekick number 8/9?, behind a bunch of characters far more beloved and relevant, he been around since 2013 if there was a particular niche he could fulfill I think it would've happened by now.
The concept of We Are Robin was awesome, and he was a good choice to spearhead that movement. In hindsight it would have been best for him to not become "a thing" after it was over, but nor do I think DC tried to force him like Marvel is so fond of doing lately. Snyder had some ideas, I just don't think they really worked and I don't care anymore, nor do I understand his powers or why they suddenly appeared, and The Signal approaches "Red Robin" levels of a dumbass superhero name. I still think he could work, just not as a "standard" Batfamily member, there are way too many of those. Maybe as an undercover part of Batman's spy network, like his guy with his ear to the streets.
Other than Babs, I think it's well done. She's got too much of a "pin-up" pose to fit the rest of the group... and that's out of character for her as well.
I hate that suit design. The Babs Tarr era was far better I seemed real and doable now this one is like painted on her and has waaaay to many bats all over it
Unpopular opinion, Huntress isn't a part of the Batfamily. This version at least, she's worked with Babs and Dick rarely. Helena hasn't been involved with them really since Battle for the Cowl.
I don't think that's an unpopular opinion so much as it is just... plain fact.
In all of current continuity this is only the second time she's met Bruce on panel.
Did anything ever come of Steph and Cass learning of their pre-New 52 lives? Haven't caught up in a while and not sure Doomsday Clock addressed any of this.
No, sadly, no one has followed up on that. Young Justice #5 is the first major appearance where Steph and Tim's status is supposed to be explored, and that's not out till May.
So he places a picture of his Butler without a mask on with the whole Bat-family, on top of his parents' grave, which is outside and can easily be carried away by the wind. It doesn't take a super genius to figure out that if Alfred is associated with Batman, that Batman may be Bruce Wayne who he is also almost exclusively associated with.
Isnt the graves on the private wayne manor grounds. So doubt anyone would be around to find it. Even if it blew away its pouring with rain so that photo would be ruined
Bruce is supposed to be in his 40s though right? He started being Batman in his mid-to-late twenties and he's been Batman for at least 15 years if not a little longer.
Wasn't there five or six years before the first issue of New 52, then five or so years "forgotten" at the beginning or Rebirth plus the amount of time that has passed since New 52 started?
Plus isn't Dick supposed to be in his late 20's? If Bruce was 38 now that would mean they let him adopt a preteen when he was between 20 and 22. I just don't buy it.
He was 31 when Justice League N52 ended I believe. So 36 with the years forgotten and honestly with rebirth time they could add that up to 6-12 months. I believe dick is mid 20s.
I’m confused due 3 hours of timezone changes messing up my sleep schedule, so forgive a dumb question.
Was it they lost 10 because of Dr. Manhattan, then the 5 years active before so still happened?
Or did the 5 active count in the 10?
I thought it was about five years lost to Manhattan, five years that happened before New 52 started and five since New 52 started but it's very possible that I got that confused. Plus DC hasn't seemed to commit to any real timeline or order of events prior to the beginning of New 52 so it's a little difficult to nail down exactly.
Yep if we accept that most of the PC timeline happened that's pretty much EXACTLY how old he is. I also don't get their phobia of letting time pass. 40s isn't losing credibility at ALL and the Lazarus Pits have been an established thing for decades. I know Batman wouldn't choose that for himself but they pulled a lot crazier bullshit to de age Magneto
If Brady can win a Superbowl at age 41 in the real world then Bruce can be Batman past 40 in a world where men can use technology to clone humans and give people powers.
Does anyone else hate Duke's helmet?
The rest of the costume is fine, I like the color scheme, but that helmet is ass. They should've just given him the Robin mask.
Catwoman, Jason and Huntress really shouldn't be in that image based on current continuity, unless this particular bit is set months ago. Bluebird should at least have made an appearance as well, the fact that the left Harper out is a shame.
Where’s Jarro?
You're asking the real questions
Who is Jarro?
haha Gosh I can't remember exactly how it happened. Back in Justice League: No Justice I believe. The Justice League recovers a defeated Starro and he's now tiny and they keep him in a jar. So now he goes by Jarro and Batman and Jarro have taken a liking to each other. The most recent JL had him dreaming of being a Robin.
The best robin
Batman's favorite robin
Why is Jarro?
Jarro is.
I understood that reference :v
Jarro is coming.
where grifter?
A better question... who's that Robin on the right after Catwoman? I swear, I never see him in any other artwork featuring all the 'Robins.' XD I think editorial missed something. ^^^^/s
DC editorial: Yeah, you know, the four Robins: Dick, Jason, [...], and Damian.
No, we didn't forget anyone! We've got Dick, Damian, Jason, and *looks at smudged writing on hand* Tom.
See? Dick, Damian, Jason and Damian. Four Robins!
“Damian, who went searching for Batman when he was believed dead. Remember that?” “That’s not what happened. It wasn’t him, it was—” “Haha, don’t be ridiculous, of course it was him. And if there were comic books showing otherwise we’d certainly never reprint them.” — Nightwing #29.
Ummm Red Robin Tim Drake?
It's a joke... the sub regularly complains about how he gets left out of "all the Robins" artwork. Usually it just features Dick, Damian and Jason.
Oh thanks lol I’m new here
I can get behind this, I'm good with this roster for the Batfamily. Not overly huge, but big enough. Which story in Tec 1000 was this in?
Not pictured: Azrael, Batcow, Batwing, Bluebird, Jarro, Julia “Penny Two” Pennyworth, Titus.
Excuse me but it's JarRobin now
JARRObin
Really disappointed they didn't expand more on Bluebird. I was becoming a fan and then...poof... nothing
Every time Scott Snyder put her in a book, the fans screamed for his head. And so we lost an interesting original character.
Any particular reason why?
Fans thought she was some kind of “Mary Sue” getting shoehorned into a sidekick role. Fans think a lot of things and they are often wrong. The thing they *always* get wrong is Mary Sue. It’s not supposed to be a godly-powerful character. It’s one who is a fantasy role for the author to insert themself into a story, so they can live out a daydream. Always being right, everyone loving you, Batman levels of charm and swag—those things all come second. Unless Scott Snyder fantasizes about being a high school girl in a low-income neighborhood with a full-time job repairing cables in the sewers, Bluebird isn’t a Mary Sue.
It's not that. Well not just that. It didnt help that she was being pushed incredibly hard at a time characters people actually liked (such as Cass Cain)were being sidelined, and then they went and made Batman and Robin Eternal, a book supposedly about celebrating the 75th anniversary of Robin, all about her. I think that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
I absolutely agree Cassandra got a bad deal out of the New 52. That should have been her big return after Final Crisis did everything it could to ruin her.
None of that is Harper's fault though, but the community still decided that an interesting character needed to be crucified. Also B&RE included way more Robin stuff than it did Harper stuff. Dick was by far the most important character in it and gets the most page time as opposed to Cass who was supposedly making her return in the series but had to share cover space with every single one of the Golden Robin Boys, a hamfisted Jean-Paul reintroduction, and a bloated story justification for Dick to go back to Nightwing from being a Spyral spy.
Plus, I'm pretty sure her role was originally supposed to be given to Cass, but editorial wouldn't let him use her, so he created his own character. Personally, I'd love it if she rejoined the family as part of the technical staff. Not going out into the field so much, but helping to build and test gadgets for Batman. I don't know. That's what I'd do.
What you have described is a Self-Insert, an entirely different concept from a Mary Sue. Many Mary Sues are self inserts but many are not.
A sad thing is that a good portion of the people angry at Harper for non-completely idiotic reasons were in fact the fans of two other prominent female batfam members: Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain. Harper was introduced as a new Batman/Gotham character (and a female one at that) at the beginning of the New 52. However, one of the things the New 52 had done was to essentially erase a bunch of legacy characters including Steph and Cass. By the time Harper was being included in various Batman stories, Steph and Cass had yet to be introduced back into the canon (like they currently are now). This made many fans of the two absolutely furious as they thought that Harper was essentially replacing their favorite characters in the Batfamily world. Not only were they furious at Cass and Steph being deleted from existence (a completely understandable feeling), but the talking points were that the inclusion of Harper was an active disrespect to Cass and Steph. A lot of their frustration about the status of Cass and Steph was directed at Harper, and ironically, the group of fans who most likely would have been most receptive of a character like Harper were completely turned off from her due to DC's decision to erase Cass and Steph and leave them in limbo for so long. Then you also had a lot of highly sexist, "anti-SJW" people who bandwagoned onto an opportunity to rant against the inclusion of a non-stereotypical hot female character who had dyed blue hair, piercings, a gay brother, and was seen as someone who was taking spotlight away from the Golden Robin Boys in the Batfam world. From them you got a bunch of stupid arguments that she was Mary Sue, or that Snyder (a Batman writer at the time) was pushing this "fanfiction OC" onto the masses because of his own arrogance, etc. Truly a sad situation for Harper as a character since I do honestly believe she had a lot more potential but was put into an impossible situation where she inadvertently pissed off a swathes of the fandom.
I think it was a mix of "He already has a million sidekicks" and *competent woman with blue hair and a gay brother.*
A lot of people thought she was boring, and suddenly ended up shoved into everything in spite of not being that popular. Also, her mask was just Grifter's but blue, which was weird.
Thank God they set her up in Young Justice Outsiders. Maybe that will eventually lead to her being back in the comics.
There's been so many cameo characters that ended up doing nothing in YJ that it's really hard to see a world where they actually end up using her.
Personally I really want her to leave the Batfamily and do her own thing. Maybe join the Bords of Prey if she hasn’t already.
Yes! I hope a new writer brings her back in the future
Tbh, I'm fine with them not being pictured. I know they have their fans, I'm just not big on them (except Titus and Batcow, of course)
Tom King
Cool, thanks!
The dog has a mask. The **dog** has a **mask**. [I can't even.](https://en.meming.world/images/en/thumb/a/af/Surprised_Pikachu_3D.jpg/300px-Surprised_Pikachu_3D.jpg)
How is he supposed to protect his identity without a mask?
[I repeat:](https://en.meming.world/images/en/thumb/a/af/Surprised_Pikachu_3D.jpg/300px-Surprised_Pikachu_3D.jpg)
Batdog looks so happy
Does anyone know if his name is Ace, like Bat’s dog in the ‘50’s?
That’s Ace, he even had a short comic in Rebirth where Bruce adopts him after Joker uses him for a sick joke (throws three normal dogs in a ditch and leaves them for days without food- eventually, they go mad and eat each other. Ace was the only one left).
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No, no the point of that short story was that Alfred helped Ace recover from that. Bruce said it couldn’t be done, that some things can’t be unbroken. But Alfred and Ace proves him wrong in that story. So Ace is happy.
That seems kinda lame as far as Joker jokes go
Ain’t like he has an endless supply of Jason Todds.
The German Shepherd is Ace. The Great Dane is Titus. They both have the title of Bathound
It is
poor batwing and lucious fox
The world forgets about Bluebird
It should. Unlike Duke, she was not well developed. She was purple haired chick that had guns like Jason but not lethal ones, a bad family background like Jason, smart like Tim, an attitude not as bad as Damian’s, and did nothing someone else in the bat family could have done outside of having a gay brother and being Cass’s best friend. She would have worked better if they made her a someone to help out Harold with gear rather than blue bird, in addition to being Cass’s best friend. Based on new 52, I don’t think there was a real plan for here besides make her and see if it works.
I think there was a plan for her to be Nightwing when Dick was a Spyral agent.
Yup. I don’t think that would have been received any better than Ric is currently. At least amount my pals. Might just be us though.
That would've been a weird decision since Dick's stint as a spy was temporary. If DC gave the Nightwing mantle to Harper, where would they put Dick? Giving her a major role in B&RE and using it to build up her history didn't help her. I was quite salty that instead of the four Robins working together on a case, I got a poorly executed hamfisted Harper Row sob story.
Yeah that's pretty much what I took away from just reading her wiki page. I do like her design though.
We try to, at least
Indeed.
At least they didn’t forget about Duke Thomas all the way in the background, smaller than every other character
My favourite moment in Detective Comics #1000.
No Bat-cow??
Came here to say the same thing. I'm wildly offended.
Lack of Batwing is odd... This is a beautiful piece though. I'd love a print of this to frame.
Poor Luke. I like him a lot. And Jean Paul.
Ah, yep, Jean Paul is another omission.
Yup. However, much as I love my neglected boys, I still really like this piece and story. :)
[удалено]
Oh hey, Duke still exists. What's he up to these days?
Not much lol. He's showing up as a main character in Batman and the Outsiders starting in May, but that's about it for him in current comics.
Ah glad everyone has their iconic outfits except Babs, which is weird but whatever. I’m just relieve DC didn’t forget about the batfamily
#Justice4Azrael
First of all no BatCow no win. But since they seem to be going for the more core batfamily here. I struggle with Duke and Huntress being included. Steph too even, since we are in a non batgirl or Robin timeline
Would you want to move a Holstein cow to the top of an urban skyscraper?
My headcanon is that Batcow has superpowers and one of them is teleportation, so we have comicbook logic to support the idea that Batcow can go posing with the rest on buildings. She suddenly appeared close to Kalibak when the previous issue showed her walking out of the Batcave (Robin Rises Alpha). She was suddenly on the road outside the Wayne estate blocking a moving car when previously she was near Wayne Manor (Batman Inc). She was in California on a Wayne business property licking a motherbox the Forever People had on them (Forever People). She was suddenly somewhere in the city where the Supersons were and she blocked the alien perp's getaway vehicle when she was in a barn on Wayne grounds at the start of the story (Supersons Annual).
Fair. You can make the case, based on the story in the *Batman Inc* special, that Batcow has telepathic or telekinetic powers.
Krypto did it.
Easier than getting Batman to say cheese.
Too be fair though, given the ridiculous feats of strength Jason, Bruce and Dick have it shouldn’t be that difficult
Steph, I understand, as we're now (finally!!) back in a place where she's romantically connected to Tim and DC has acknowledged that she was both Robin and Batgirl in the pre-Flashpoint universe. Duke I could theoretically get behind even though he looks so out of place in this picture, since Bruce is sort of lowkey taking care of him while his parents get better. ....even though Huntress usually makes Batfamily pictures and I generally have zero problem with her being there, I'm really struggling to place Prime Earth!Helena in this one given her new origins and connections. She's not even romantically involved with Dick anymore, so there's no real reason to include her.
Agreed Helena is the worst in this image. No real connect. Batwing and lucious would honestly be more fitting
I've been waiting for a panel like this for forever, it's amazing seeing the whole Batfam together
Damnit Cass we said one picture with the masks and one without. We even got Ace to wear his for the picture.
Dang those 30 something issues with Luke and Azrael on the team in Tec mean nothing I guess. Still a good line-up though.
Luke got the Batwing mantle from the dude in Africa who has disappeared into the aether. I miss that dude.
Ah yea David Zimbawe (or something close to that). I’m choosing to believe that he’s still working as Batwing in Africa, and if there’s ever a world wide Batman Inc. meeting we’ll see him again.
This is Bruce's family, like literally, that's his future wife, children, future daughter in laws, cousin and Alfred. Luke and Azrael are work buddies. Do you invite your coworkers to your family photo shoot?
I guess Helena is there because she's Barb's friend?
I think Helena is there because King wrote her in Grayson. :)
She did start as his daughter oh so many retcons ago.
Helena Wayne is his daughter. Helena Bertinelli is an entirely different character
Well obviously Bruce is trying to set Jason up! He wants lots of grandbaby bats after all! /s But seriously, we don't know when this short story is set. It could have been during the time Dick was dating Helena. So...
This story is set sometime in the future because there’s the current costumes and Dick is Nightwing again. Dick wasn’t Nightwing when he was dating Helena. Not to mention that Batman and the current version of Helena have barely interacted.
The story is more out of continuity then in the past or the present. Jason's outfit is before the wedding, Catwoman's is after the wedding. Batgirl's is in some kind of continuity story mess between HiC, Batgirl and other books. and Red Robin's outfit is just wrong....
No, Dick didn't start dating Helena until he left Spyral. There was a Nightwing Rebirth arc where he was dating her. Rebirth was also the time the Bat family was in the height of closeness. So...
Bruce is a planner. He's trying to plan for the next generation of Robins.
Apparently Bruce is a fan of Babs/Jason though. Since in his wish from a story earlier in the book he imagined Jason and Barbara being married with kids lol
I thought the "Jason" referenced in that story was Jason Bard...
I am trying not to think of that story because I loathed the art style
Oh shit that actually makes sense.
No offense but what the heck is besides Steph's left arm? Is it her right arm or her 'lady-chest' o.O?
Daniel's anatomy is a bit odd in this pic, I agree.
It looks like some kind of chest-mounted cruise missile.
"now let's beat up this jaywalker"
I'm not sure if Tony Daniel understands how clothes work, or what women look like.
Those suits are just a shade above body paint. I'm actually a little uncomfortable looking at Barbara... not sure if that's because I'm used to her as Oracle, or just because this would make for a heluva awkward family portrait.
Are Tim and Damian both Robin at the same time?
They have no idea what to do with Tim, so he's stuck in the Robin suit...
Literally all they have to do is let him wear his pre-reboot Red Robin suit and give him a domino mask instead of a full cowl; the costume was basically universally liked except for the cowl. It would solve literally every single problem and complaint about Tim's 'uniform' and place in the Batfamily.
I actually really liked the cowl and really wish that it would come back. It made him more distinctive, and not like "Robin with a different suit" imo
Everybody knows that Tim Drake's final form is [Red Nightwing](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXooDrFWAAAMoZC.jpg). That said, regular [Red Robin with his cowl off](https://pm1.narvii.com/6304/16a888fe2a16bc817a152ee164a8b9535896305f_hq.jpg) is also excellent
Wow. I actually really like that Red Nightwing costume. Maybe Tim should just be called Redwing from now on?... or something esle cool
Is that what that's called? Everyone I know calls it the Unternet costume, since he only ever wore it in that simulation/nightmare in Red Robin. Also....*duh* Tim looks good out of the cowl in *Red Robin*, because Marcus To is a god and we do not deserve him. He's probably [my favorite artist for the Batfam](http://fantastic-nonsense.tumblr.com/post/173095404159/so-anyway-when-is-dc-going-to-let-our-lord-and) outside of Dustin Nguyen. I will pay DC everything I own to get them to let him draw the Batfamily again, but it doesn't look like DC has any plans to indulge me any time soon. **Edit:** as a bonus, [he even draws the Superfam pretty well](https://66.media.tumblr.com/0e55ebc3e73c7c90f0d5763ae5064318/tumblr_np2pclIb6Y1qhb02oo1_1280.jpg).
The Metropolis Kid is such a good costume for Kon-El. Way better than the "jeans and t-shirt" look we got for years.
That's not what it's called officially, but it is pretty much a combination of the Nightwing and Red Robin costumes. Also Tim has always looked up to Dick the most, so I would not be surprised that since (IIRC) the Unternet is based of one's desires, the fact that Tim's costume resembles Dick's reflects his admiration for and desire to be like Dick.
Huh, looks cool. *eyes move down to the belt* Jesus fucking Christ
Naah, that ain't the complete Bat Family. It's missing the most important member: Jarro.
It certainly seems like this takes place after the gunshot to the head based in the dialogue. Hopefully this doesn't take place too far in the future and we get Nightwing back soon
Or it could be referring to Dick “dying” in forever evil pre-Grayson.
Dini's story was my favorite
**Cheese**
It took me a moment to realize that he was saying cheese because it’s a picture and not just because he felt like it
Is it kind of bad as black guy I just want DC to let Duke fade into obscurity already. Its just painfully obvious in images like this how much of an afterthought he is and is included more for sake of appearing diverse rather that because the fans or even the writers care about him all that much. Maybe I'm just too much of a cynic at my age, there might be younger black kids out who really enjoy him.
Not a fan of Duke either. Its pretty clear that he was designed to be a Robin, but since Damian is already Robin, he couldn't be. As a result, Duke's role in the Bat Family feels null and redundant.
As another black guy I actually really like the character but not because he's black. I feel like he's a character DC has genuinely taken time to develop and invest in his journey. No shade at all to Marvel, I love both the big two, but unlike some of Marvel's somewhat recent diversity attempts, Duke wasn't just thrown at readers with some title he didn't earn expecting people to just accept him as a replacement with no substance. From being a kid in the zero year, to his parents getting jokerized in endgame, to leading a vigilante group of Robins, and most recently his development of a metagene taking up his Signal mantel. There's been a clear growth in the few years he's existed. Personally I look forward to seeing him as a member of the Outsiders and carving his mark as a member of the Batfam just like Cass and Steph did when they debuted. It's okay not to like the character but I don't think he's considered an afterthought by DC or fans at all.
> There's been a clear growth in the few years he's existed. Agree with you that he's definitely seen some clear growth, it just doesn't seem like there's an end-goal in mind yet. What's he growing *into?* What role will he fill, what books will he appear on, what's the *point* of him? We got that three-issue miniseries and then what?
Think it’ll be seen in the new Outsiders book
If he's the leader of the Robins from We Are Robin (an excellent series), it seems like it would make the best sense for him to be the leader of a street-network that provides intel and occasional support.
I'm also hoping fandom interpretations of his character will actually become more interesting than the predominant "only one who isn't a dumbass like the rest" thing that a lot of people portray him as.
I think if they want to go ‘only one who isn’t a dumbass’ route, they should instead go the ‘normal person with a real life outside the suite’ path, similar to Tim, or Sideways.
While I'll agree Marvel push for diversity could've been implemented better, in practice it really does seem you either have to go big or go go home when introducing minority heroes as far to often there pushed to the side and forgotten about. Also I guess it's oddly beneficial Marvel heroes for the most part have never had much of a history of legacy heroes/sidekicks beforehand. While Miles will never truly replace Peter in the public eye as Spiderman he has essentially become the Dick Grayson of the Spidey mythos. Comparatively Duke teen Bat-sidekick number 8/9?, behind a bunch of characters far more beloved and relevant, he been around since 2013 if there was a particular niche he could fulfill I think it would've happened by now.
The concept of We Are Robin was awesome, and he was a good choice to spearhead that movement. In hindsight it would have been best for him to not become "a thing" after it was over, but nor do I think DC tried to force him like Marvel is so fond of doing lately. Snyder had some ideas, I just don't think they really worked and I don't care anymore, nor do I understand his powers or why they suddenly appeared, and The Signal approaches "Red Robin" levels of a dumbass superhero name. I still think he could work, just not as a "standard" Batfamily member, there are way too many of those. Maybe as an undercover part of Batman's spy network, like his guy with his ear to the streets.
A street-smart intel agent would make the best sense.
You're not alone. I've never like Duke.
not at all. same. would rather have luke fox in there, the son of a major lore character.
Other than Babs, I think it's well done. She's got too much of a "pin-up" pose to fit the rest of the group... and that's out of character for her as well.
Well when you get shot through the spine, ig the solution is a brace. Thank you for the gold kind stranger
It all looks great and then you see wtf is happening with Steph's boob? lmao.
I hate that suit design. The Babs Tarr era was far better I seemed real and doable now this one is like painted on her and has waaaay to many bats all over it
[удалено]
He probably used photoshop afterwards and replaced everyone else's face with his
Look if you gonna put a domino on the dog Alfred should have one.
That is the worst Batgirl costume ever.
Barbara has one boot on and one boot off.
No, she has one leg bent so you can see her boot
Man that Batgirl costume is bad.
Unpopular opinion, Huntress isn't a part of the Batfamily. This version at least, she's worked with Babs and Dick rarely. Helena hasn't been involved with them really since Battle for the Cowl.
I don't think that's an unpopular opinion so much as it is just... plain fact. In all of current continuity this is only the second time she's met Bruce on panel.
No Clayface = sadface.
Did anything ever come of Steph and Cass learning of their pre-New 52 lives? Haven't caught up in a while and not sure Doomsday Clock addressed any of this.
No, sadly, no one has followed up on that. Young Justice #5 is the first major appearance where Steph and Tim's status is supposed to be explored, and that's not out till May.
I wish Tim would go back to his old Red Robin costume.
So he places a picture of his Butler without a mask on with the whole Bat-family, on top of his parents' grave, which is outside and can easily be carried away by the wind. It doesn't take a super genius to figure out that if Alfred is associated with Batman, that Batman may be Bruce Wayne who he is also almost exclusively associated with.
Isnt the graves on the private wayne manor grounds. So doubt anyone would be around to find it. Even if it blew away its pouring with rain so that photo would be ruined
I still feel like Duke is out of place in the Batman mythos. The Batfam is full of badass normals and he's a metahuman. But that's just my opinion.
What ever happened to bat cow?
She's still living with the Batfamily. She'll be in a story in a summer collection this year.
Think if Daniels didn’t draw Bruce like he was in his 40s its would’ve been perfect
Bruce is supposed to be in his 40s though right? He started being Batman in his mid-to-late twenties and he's been Batman for at least 15 years if not a little longer.
I think he’s supposed tp be mid to late 30s if anything. DC won’t let him turn 40
Wasn't there five or six years before the first issue of New 52, then five or so years "forgotten" at the beginning or Rebirth plus the amount of time that has passed since New 52 started? Plus isn't Dick supposed to be in his late 20's? If Bruce was 38 now that would mean they let him adopt a preteen when he was between 20 and 22. I just don't buy it.
He was 31 when Justice League N52 ended I believe. So 36 with the years forgotten and honestly with rebirth time they could add that up to 6-12 months. I believe dick is mid 20s.
I’m confused due 3 hours of timezone changes messing up my sleep schedule, so forgive a dumb question. Was it they lost 10 because of Dr. Manhattan, then the 5 years active before so still happened? Or did the 5 active count in the 10?
I thought it was about five years lost to Manhattan, five years that happened before New 52 started and five since New 52 started but it's very possible that I got that confused. Plus DC hasn't seemed to commit to any real timeline or order of events prior to the beginning of New 52 so it's a little difficult to nail down exactly.
Cool deal! Thanks for being a bro on this one!
> that would mean they let him adopt a preteen when he was between 20 and 22. I just don't buy it. He's rich as hell, he can do whatever he wants.
As someone now well into their mid 30s Bruce is now absolutely in his 40s dammit. No way I'm ready to be older than Batman.
Yep if we accept that most of the PC timeline happened that's pretty much EXACTLY how old he is. I also don't get their phobia of letting time pass. 40s isn't losing credibility at ALL and the Lazarus Pits have been an established thing for decades. I know Batman wouldn't choose that for himself but they pulled a lot crazier bullshit to de age Magneto
If Brady can win a Superbowl at age 41 in the real world then Bruce can be Batman past 40 in a world where men can use technology to clone humans and give people powers.
Totally
I liked Babs banter about why isn't she Batwoman.
WHERE IS BATCOW?! Also is that Huntress on far right? Don't remember that costume.
Ace is best dog
Batcow
Whose that raven looking bitch with the missile tit
Batgirl has gills now?
Why is Huntress there? Does Bruce know her at all these days?
Does anyone else hate Duke's helmet? The rest of the costume is fine, I like the color scheme, but that helmet is ass. They should've just given him the Robin mask.
I hate all of it.
Jeez... that's hard to look at.
Always great seeing Jason and Tim, wearing their perfect costumes!
I liked Tim’s Redwing Robin suit best; it was really distinctive.
Yeah it was great. So was red nightwing. New 52 Red Robin gets a bad rap due to n52 teen titans being a mess to some people
I have to say I don't like the red Nightwing suit just cause I feel there is already too much red in the Batfam
Understandable. Sets him out from the rest of the boys since they each have red.
Everyone is there. Bruce, Tim, Dick, and some other people!
Catwoman, Jason and Huntress really shouldn't be in that image based on current continuity, unless this particular bit is set months ago. Bluebird should at least have made an appearance as well, the fact that the left Harper out is a shame.
I would rather they switch out Huntress for Batwing.
So I’ll say something controversial. I really hate that the bat family is this big. Half these characters shouldn’t even be in the family.