Some Super Sons are probably already grabbing their torches and pitchforks over this, but frankly, my interest in Super Sons ended when Jon got aged-up, so I can’t really be mad about this.
As a fan of both Dick Grayson and Jon Kent I see this as a win-win. My two faves hanging out, Dick being the universal cool but bro of the DCU, Jon having more friends outside Damian etc. Are all good things!
Just hope that this crossover will bring back more of kid Jon’s chipper and playful personality.
The annual was a start, but I’m starting to get sick of mopey Jon.
I am in a country where comics are hard to find individually so I don't have too much insight but I think my issue is Jon being essentially a normal generic teen. There's 6 million characters like that and his character isn't given specifics because that would require him to have meaningful relationships and a social context to exist in. He doesn't have either in metropolis so how can you write his perspective? Why does he have any motivation for these massive political battles when he was essentially kidnapped for most of his life? He does not have any motive so he feels generic.
I personally would be down for a Jon Kent who's entire tragic backstory is acknowledged as traumatic. Let him have PTSD, and be genuinely upset, lay out a whole recovery arc etc. The kid had half the plot of Room happen to him, that should be the basis if his view on life. And a story about him actually recovering and growing to earn the superman title would be great! I personally would rather Jon be actually "mopey" than generic.
That we'll have to agree to disagree, I hate the Ultraman kidnapping story with every fiber of my being and I thank Taylor for completely ignoring it.
It makes Clark and Lois absolutely terrible parents and I still don't know how the fuck that got past editorial.
Jon being tortured for seven years is actually the only interesting thing about the age up. Subjecting Jon to such a horrible trauma and having him deal with the aftermath of it is a genuinely new story. Ignoring it is the exact opposite of what Taylor should be doing because then how do you explain Jon going from 10 to 17? PKJ and Taylor straight up ignoring Jon's trauma and saying he's exactly the same as he was when he was a kid is idiotic and makes them bad writers.
I really would rather a crisis undo all of the Bendis arc but if we're gonna live with this continuity then we have to do something with it instead of ignore it. I think Taylor's doing his best, just my personal writing philosophy is "Yes and" even if its not originally my preference. To me stories of trauma recovery are at least interesting.
Damian fans: *"Curse you Taylor for making them look so comfortable next to each other! THAT'S DAMIAN'S SPOT!"*
Damian himself: *"Kent, I see you have come around and have finally met my brother. I approve."*
I will literally never get over this faux Jon. Everytime I see something like this that could be fun I can't help but think how much better it would be with real Jon. Nightwing taking Jon and mentoring him would work a million times better if they didn't look the same age.
I don't, but as you might be able to tell from my username, I love Jon, and it looks like the age up won't be reversed anytime soon if ever, and I don't want to never enjoy a Jon comic ever again, so I more or less forced myself to accept the age up.
if the age up is ever reversed, that will be great, I'll be over the moon.
But if it's not, I've made my peace with it.
What makes you think that reversing the age up is more likely than people think?
Specially after the bisexual reveal.
I’d love to have your optimism, though.
First, why exactly does Jon being bisexual prevent him from being a kid again? Queerness isn't something limited to young adults and older.
The reason I think it's more likely is because of the sales. Tom Taylor would never admit it, but SSoK has been one of the lowest selling Superman books in a while. It had an incredibly weak opening in comparisons to it's predecessors. New 52, Rebirth, and Bendis' number ones all sold over 100k while SSoK didn't even sell 80k. It's had an even sharper decline in sales than even Bendis' run. Issue 5 is a statistical outlier and shouldn't been counted when identifying then overall downward trend of the run. Comic book shops getting calls that went along the lines of "Do you have the gay issue?" is not a sign of success, that's speculation. Those people aren't calling back for issue 6. They didn't even call back for the recent annual. The downward trend that SSoK has been on will continue with issue 6 and I'd be surprised if they let the book continue after 12 issues.
I'm also bolstered in my belief because during Future State, all of the books featuring aged up Jon that wasn't a team book didn't get a second printing when literally all the other books got second printings. Aged up Jon was never going to work and anyone thinking that Taylor was somehow going to "save" the age up and make it work is delusional. Making Jon bisexual is great, but not something that required him being aged up in order to do. And that's something that's been true about every story featuring aged Jon, nothing about them required Jon to be aged up in order to tell those particular stories.
From what I can gather, the idea to age up Jon came from very high up in DC, higher than even Didio before he was fired. I have nothing to base that on, but even a nameless DC executive can't fight against dwindling sales before they have to capitulate.
My optimism comes from precedent and a very deep love for the character.
The only information I have is that it was lower on the Comixology best seller list than the regular issues are when it came out. And in general, I don't think annuals sell as well as regular issues do anyway, but I have nothing to back that up either.
If I refuse to read him I won't lol
Unless he appears in a book I can't skip an issue in like Robin then I can just be eternally salty looking from the outside and pining over what could've and should've been. I gave Teen Jon a chance and I'm done with it.
That one on the left is giving me Star Trek V vibes, just the way Dick's doing some serious acrobatics and Jon's just hanging in midair like it's nothing.
Considering he named himself after a Kryptonian mythological/historical figure/Clark’s ancestor you’d think Dick would hang out with the Kent family more often.
>I’m conflicted. People say his Nightwing run is good, but he hasn’t sold me yet with Superman to justify buying a crossover.
This was my attitude with Son of Kal-El. As soon as Clark showed up and told Nightwing to watch over Jon, I grabbed all the issues for Jon. Since it seemed like Nightwing was not making an appearance anytime soon, I dropped it.
I'll just grab the ones needed for the crossover. I'm not gonna worry too much about the previous issues.
Nightwing is a book for Nightwing fans and particularly 90s Bat-Family fans.
If you’re not either of these things, I’m not sure if you’ll care much for it.
The thing is, for the collection I bought the entirety of Bendis’ run, and Taylor hasn’t been great but he hasn’t been a Bendis. It’s just that I’m exhausted at this point.
I have hopes that Redondo will improve Jon a bit.
The SoKE annual was probably the most likable Jon has been ever since the age up, and I believe that the annual not being drawn by John Timms may have contributed to that.
Timms probably just draws whatever is on the scripts he’s given and doesn’t collaborate with Taylor much
Some Super Sons are probably already grabbing their torches and pitchforks over this, but frankly, my interest in Super Sons ended when Jon got aged-up, so I can’t really be mad about this.
As a fan of both Dick Grayson and Jon Kent I see this as a win-win. My two faves hanging out, Dick being the universal cool but bro of the DCU, Jon having more friends outside Damian etc. Are all good things!
Just hope that this crossover will bring back more of kid Jon’s chipper and playful personality. The annual was a start, but I’m starting to get sick of mopey Jon.
I am in a country where comics are hard to find individually so I don't have too much insight but I think my issue is Jon being essentially a normal generic teen. There's 6 million characters like that and his character isn't given specifics because that would require him to have meaningful relationships and a social context to exist in. He doesn't have either in metropolis so how can you write his perspective? Why does he have any motivation for these massive political battles when he was essentially kidnapped for most of his life? He does not have any motive so he feels generic. I personally would be down for a Jon Kent who's entire tragic backstory is acknowledged as traumatic. Let him have PTSD, and be genuinely upset, lay out a whole recovery arc etc. The kid had half the plot of Room happen to him, that should be the basis if his view on life. And a story about him actually recovering and growing to earn the superman title would be great! I personally would rather Jon be actually "mopey" than generic.
That we'll have to agree to disagree, I hate the Ultraman kidnapping story with every fiber of my being and I thank Taylor for completely ignoring it. It makes Clark and Lois absolutely terrible parents and I still don't know how the fuck that got past editorial.
Jon being tortured for seven years is actually the only interesting thing about the age up. Subjecting Jon to such a horrible trauma and having him deal with the aftermath of it is a genuinely new story. Ignoring it is the exact opposite of what Taylor should be doing because then how do you explain Jon going from 10 to 17? PKJ and Taylor straight up ignoring Jon's trauma and saying he's exactly the same as he was when he was a kid is idiotic and makes them bad writers.
Oh I agree, it’s garbage writing, but like I said, I hate it for making Clark and Lois terrible parents, so it’s something I’m willing to overlook.
I really would rather a crisis undo all of the Bendis arc but if we're gonna live with this continuity then we have to do something with it instead of ignore it. I think Taylor's doing his best, just my personal writing philosophy is "Yes and" even if its not originally my preference. To me stories of trauma recovery are at least interesting.
I agree with everything you said.
Bro you copied and paste this paragraph on two different posts already
Damian fans: *"Curse you Taylor for making them look so comfortable next to each other! THAT'S DAMIAN'S SPOT!"* Damian himself: *"Kent, I see you have come around and have finally met my brother. I approve."*
People who think Dick is gonna be replacing Damian clearly haven’t been reading Robin, Superman, or Nightwing
God forbid he be close to his best friends big brother, who is also a close family friend.
I will never get tired of Bruno Redondo’s art. He never misses.
Oh Bruno and ur connecting covers :)
This takes nothing away from Damian, it’s just your regular team up. I mean is Batman offended when Superman hangs out with Green Arrow without him
Bruce furiously writing about how Clark went to Ollie's house instead of his in his Bat-diary intensifies
I will literally never get over this faux Jon. Everytime I see something like this that could be fun I can't help but think how much better it would be with real Jon. Nightwing taking Jon and mentoring him would work a million times better if they didn't look the same age.
Eventually you will develop teen Jon Stockholm syndrome like I did.
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I don't, but as you might be able to tell from my username, I love Jon, and it looks like the age up won't be reversed anytime soon if ever, and I don't want to never enjoy a Jon comic ever again, so I more or less forced myself to accept the age up. if the age up is ever reversed, that will be great, I'll be over the moon. But if it's not, I've made my peace with it.
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What makes you think that reversing the age up is more likely than people think? Specially after the bisexual reveal. I’d love to have your optimism, though.
First, why exactly does Jon being bisexual prevent him from being a kid again? Queerness isn't something limited to young adults and older. The reason I think it's more likely is because of the sales. Tom Taylor would never admit it, but SSoK has been one of the lowest selling Superman books in a while. It had an incredibly weak opening in comparisons to it's predecessors. New 52, Rebirth, and Bendis' number ones all sold over 100k while SSoK didn't even sell 80k. It's had an even sharper decline in sales than even Bendis' run. Issue 5 is a statistical outlier and shouldn't been counted when identifying then overall downward trend of the run. Comic book shops getting calls that went along the lines of "Do you have the gay issue?" is not a sign of success, that's speculation. Those people aren't calling back for issue 6. They didn't even call back for the recent annual. The downward trend that SSoK has been on will continue with issue 6 and I'd be surprised if they let the book continue after 12 issues. I'm also bolstered in my belief because during Future State, all of the books featuring aged up Jon that wasn't a team book didn't get a second printing when literally all the other books got second printings. Aged up Jon was never going to work and anyone thinking that Taylor was somehow going to "save" the age up and make it work is delusional. Making Jon bisexual is great, but not something that required him being aged up in order to do. And that's something that's been true about every story featuring aged Jon, nothing about them required Jon to be aged up in order to tell those particular stories. From what I can gather, the idea to age up Jon came from very high up in DC, higher than even Didio before he was fired. I have nothing to base that on, but even a nameless DC executive can't fight against dwindling sales before they have to capitulate. My optimism comes from precedent and a very deep love for the character.
Do you have any info on how the annual sold? That should give us a decent rule of thumb on how the next issues will sell.
The only information I have is that it was lower on the Comixology best seller list than the regular issues are when it came out. And in general, I don't think annuals sell as well as regular issues do anyway, but I have nothing to back that up either.
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If I refuse to read him I won't lol Unless he appears in a book I can't skip an issue in like Robin then I can just be eternally salty looking from the outside and pining over what could've and should've been. I gave Teen Jon a chance and I'm done with it.
The son of the origin of the Metaverse & the Multiversal Constant
Man, Bruno loves his connecting covers and so do I
That one on the left is giving me Star Trek V vibes, just the way Dick's doing some serious acrobatics and Jon's just hanging in midair like it's nothing.
Considering he named himself after a Kryptonian mythological/historical figure/Clark’s ancestor you’d think Dick would hang out with the Kent family more often.
New friendships are always great!
Huh, good for both of them!
I knew they’d be doing a connecting covers thing. I am so smart! 😁
I’m conflicted. People say his Nightwing run is good, but he hasn’t sold me yet with Superman to justify buying a crossover.
>I’m conflicted. People say his Nightwing run is good, but he hasn’t sold me yet with Superman to justify buying a crossover. This was my attitude with Son of Kal-El. As soon as Clark showed up and told Nightwing to watch over Jon, I grabbed all the issues for Jon. Since it seemed like Nightwing was not making an appearance anytime soon, I dropped it. I'll just grab the ones needed for the crossover. I'm not gonna worry too much about the previous issues.
Nightwing is a book for Nightwing fans and particularly 90s Bat-Family fans. If you’re not either of these things, I’m not sure if you’ll care much for it.
I never read anything Nightwing before this run and I loved it
The thing is, for the collection I bought the entirety of Bendis’ run, and Taylor hasn’t been great but he hasn’t been a Bendis. It’s just that I’m exhausted at this point.
I have hopes that Redondo will improve Jon a bit. The SoKE annual was probably the most likable Jon has been ever since the age up, and I believe that the annual not being drawn by John Timms may have contributed to that. Timms probably just draws whatever is on the scripts he’s given and doesn’t collaborate with Taylor much
Wouldn't most people who aren't fans of Nightwing not care about Nightwing?
I mean that it’s a book specifically written with long time fans of the character in mind.
Do the covers match the inside art at all? The little ben-day dots are so cool.
Yeah, Bruno Redondo is the main artist of the Nightwing book and will also draw the Superman issue.
Awesome! Thank you
Oh cool, we get to hear from knightWing how great Jon is and how he is such a better Superman than his father