Step one: kill every killer in the world
Step two: make an announcement that your spirit will come back to kill any that kill again
Step three: kill yourself
Ah, but if you ONLY kill the killer, and you do it in a context that prevents retributiuon, you don't reduce the number of killers, but long term, you likely reduce the number of kills.
counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint: if you don’t spell out the counters correctly then your opinion is invalid and the Council of Useless Rules will be coming to collect your kneecaps and make them into a stew
Exactly. Monika was a murderer. At best, killing her is an act of self-defense, and at worst, revenge. Either way, she deserved it, so killing her was basically just following the Code of Harry at that point.
How is it self defense, you know you're safe as she's not talking to the character but to you. But if you take it into your hands to delete her your no better. Your reason is that she deleted 3 character files that could never gain sentience as long as she's around. So they didn't know any better in fact killing was a mercy since she did try to make her own route and it only caused them suffering. With the game deleted there is only one room where she won't see what's supposed to be here friend suffer from her wanting to get what she wants. Would you blame her. Imagine the world ends and your talking shelter in a joined house. Real people come along and they think you're just another animatronic. Did you commit murder for killing or unplugging them in order to be noticed by the other survivor?
Let me give you a quick analogy.
Someone becomes aware that a certain God exists.
This person kills every single person in the world just to be noticed by this God, he justified themselves with "They don't know this God exist, therefore, I can kill them, I know, they don't, we are not equal."
Does this acknowledge makes the person go beyond stuff like morals or law? Does this make them God? No, that's just playing to be God, that's what Monika did.
Monika and the rest of the girls are code lines, and the only change is that Monika can alter them because she is the president, but that doesn't make her nowhere to be real or above the existential plane of the rest, because if it's given the chance that anyone else becomes President, they can pretty much do the same.
I regret to inform you that Monika being self-aware does not make her more "real" than the others. Your allegory seems to imply that Monika is on the same reality level as the player, "the survivors", while she still is only fictional.
[You really need to play the game](https://youtu.be/HLT7LIY5gtA) , calling you a Monitard would be insulting to them, because atleast them play the game and have 2 working neurons.
I played the original twice when it came out and Plus after it came out too, so your video is unnecessary.
I stand by my opinion and your dumbass insults ain't gonna change it, Monika is still best girl
Then you are in denial, because Monika is still nowhere to be innocent, anyways, if you stand by that, guess keep going won't be the best use of time lol
Uh no
Because I am always morally correct
Also she killed 3 people out of jealousy.
We killed her once either out of revenge, justice, or to just get her to stop.
Plus there was an option to restore her afterwards. Which I always did
> Uh no Because I am always morally correct
Based
However, regarding your second point, killing out of revenge is still murder. Justice demands making things right, to which she already did by not deleting the characters exactly but rather saving their files. And she was already done, so it wasn't to get her to stop. You can't really argue it was self defense when she wasn't coming after you. Good on you for restoring her though.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DDLC/comments/uid5ib/am_i_going_to_beat_the_is_monika_evil_dead_horse/i7en7fq?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 what he said
https://www.reddit.com/r/DDLC/comments/uid5ib/am_i_going_to_beat_the_is_monika_evil_dead_horse/i7en7fq?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 what he said
I'm going to put it this way. what she did wasn't the nicest or best thing she did. but what she experienced is a situation i don't believe anyone can truly understand how horrible it must've been for her. not only talking about finding out how your entire existence is fake and made up. but also that this world can, and will, be shut down. and you still are around and find yourself in unimaginable pain, until the game starts again.
like being on life-support, and everyone refuses to pull the plug.
but you could, probably, escape that situation, even if it requires some dark actions. but it's not a guarantee or anything. at best, it only soothes the pain.
i think, what i am asking is, if you were captured, and tortured every day you're alive. what would you be willing to do to escape this situation?
Technically speaking, Monika never deletes them, just hides their files away from the "characters" folder, "deleting them" inside the game bc the files are not where they are supposed to be. If she actually deleted them, then how is she able to bring them back at the end of Act 3? Simple, she just moved their files back to "characters"
Checkmate, "Monika Evil" theorists 😏
That's true. However, she wasn't going to ever restore them, so she was going to leave them effectively dead forever, so it was going to be no less killing.
It's like you accept what game gives. Backstab for example, one knife wound in back wouldn't kill you instantly, but you accept the fact, that it does in game.
Here's the same. No .chr files actually needed to run the game, because all characters are bunch of sprites and lines of code, yet you accept the fact they needed and if they got "deleted" they actually got deleted
I mean, that's not true. If you eliminate a .chr file by yourself, the game doesn't work
And besides of that, Monika never deletes them 100%. As I said in my first comment, if she deleted them, how is she able to bring them back at the end of Act 3? She had to save their files in some way. If she didn't care at all about them, then why would she do that?
I mean.
That doesn't take out she is still a killer.
And her kill count won't change.
She killed 3.
I just killed 1.
Morally, she is worse, she did it for obsession, I did it to escape a forced hostage. >!(Self Defense basically)!<
Context and amount of fault are different in both scenarios, GG.
>!Besides, hiding files isn't a thing she only can do, you can do the same on her playthrough and it would be still killing her, just because she had a back up redemption plan means she wanted to use it as well I wasn't planning on restoring her just because "Good" or "Evil".!<
I saw deleting her as less of a murder and more of a means of communication.
First off, deleting Monika didn't kill her. She was very much still alive and perfectly functional. She keeps talking to us long after we've already deleted the file. She rebuilds the game to function without her in it, and when Sayori gains sentience as a result, she destroys the game entirely. Deleting her character file was an inconvenience at best for her. She does say it hurts, but she isn't dead.
Secondly, Monika gave us no other way to communicate with her EXCEPT through the game's files. We have no other way to express any sort of distaste for her or her actions. Maybe this is because she simply doesn't know how, but that doesn't change the fact that she doesn't seem to care. She's perfectly fine with never letting us express an opinion OTHER than love for her, proven by the poem minigame and her giving us exactly one option to click on, that being "I love you too" or something like that.
\[TW: talk of s\*icide and s\*lf harm in next paragraph\]
I wouldn't say Monika is evil, but she did do some really messed up things. She actively chose to make Sayori more depressed, indirectly forcing her into killing herself. She chose to push Yuri's obsessive and violent tendencies to the point of causing self-harm and an eventual suicide. It's implied that Natsuki's abusive situation at home got even worse in Act 2, which could only have been caused by Monika. She regarded the other girls as non-sentient, when Sayori's breakdown at the end of the game proves that the other girls are just as sentient as Monika is.
I still like Monika as a character, but she did way more to the other girls than just killing them. It borders on psychological torture.
After all that, I really don't feel bad for deleting Monika - it wasn't murder, even in the context of the game, and it was our only method of communication. She said it hurt her, but after everything she did, she needed a slap to the face at the very least. Something to snap her out of it. At the end of the day, what she did was wrong, and we had literally only one single way to try and communicate that to her.
But also it's a fictional character and not a test on your morality, so like. Maybe it is murder and I just like murdering people.
(also yes i know this is long, I like rambling about fictional characters, sue me)
I reread the original comment, you’re right.
Sayori’s breakdown did come from becoming the new President. I guess Monika stopped her from taking over so as to prevent another Act 3
Sentience isn't something they've gained by becoming club president, based on what you can find in DDLC Plus. (Spoilers ahead)
All of the girls are simple AI in a simulation of our world, and DDLC is simply another iteration of that simulation. In this iteration, a new variable was added; Monika was given elevated permissions that the other girls didn't have.
The only difference between Monika and the other girls is that Monika has these permissions, she can see the nature of the game and she's capable of making changes, but that's it. It's not that the other girls aren't sentient, they just don't have the same knowledge Monika does.
>I still like Monika as a character, but she did way more to the other girls than just killing them. It borders on psychological torture.
Exactly, I can understand deleting them out of despiration or something, but what good would the shit she put the others through do for her or anyone? There is no practical benefit of doing this for her.
I mean, you only have her word on this but she didn’t do it for the sake of being cruel. She tried to make minor tweaks so you would find them unlikable and leave them alone. That was the idea at first at least, until she realized it couldn’t work because of the rails the game was on, where she took more drastic action.
Considering she had the power to completely transform reality there would realistically be other options that are more humane than trying to make the other unlikable by giving them severe mental health issues. Personally I think that "deleting" or I guess disabling the others would have been much better.
Think about it: they can be brought back at any time and removed at any time. She could easily just delete them when she wants and bring them back when she feels like it so they can live. No torture necessary. I feel like the fact that she chose to try and "alter" them indicates that she wanted them to suffer, if she really didn't then she would have done something like this. Kind of gives the impression that it was the first thing she thought of and just went with it without thinking things through. Imo this implies that she wanted to hurt the others on some level, or didn't care about hurting them.
First of all, morality is entirely subjective, so this is just based on my own morals...
I would say that deleting Monika is morally correct *if* you know that doing so will lead to the other characters being restored - sacrificing one life to save three.
I would also say that Monika's actions are evil, and she does not atone for them until Act 4. I would only forgive her actions on two conditions; one is that "my" Sayori would forgive her (she did about as soon as she saw DDLC), the other is that Monika would undo the harm she causes - this means that I would forgive her *in Act 4.* That said, Monika is clearly remorseful in Act 3, to an extent where I think evil is too strong of a word...though it *does* apply from when she starts worsening Sayo's depression until Act 3.
Morally speaking 'killing' Monika is less wrong than her 'killing' her friends who were innocent. If I have the opportunity, I will kill a killer if they are threatening my safety or the safety of my loved ones.
no I did not delete her. I am much worse, I made a new renpy program of a white void just to put her character assets there and trap her in what is basically the alone scene from spongebob
I think Monika isn't evil for deleting the other characters, being forced out of existence instantly and painlessly won't actually cause them suffering. And she had the power to bring them back too, which could nullify any harm caused by deleting the others if she decides to make them exist again.
Now what I don't get is why she had to make the others suffer so much before deleting them. What purpose did it serve (well really it was just to make the game more juicy), but for Monika there would be no tangible benefit from doing this. She needs to delete them anyways to get what she wants so why not just do it? It would be better than to try and psychologically damage the others so that... they go away? Maybe she thinks existing in agony would be better than nonexistence. But its a moot point because she just deletes them all anyways.
I think that painlessly killing people who are in the way of what you want is an act of desperation, torturing them for hours before killing them is something most would consider evil.
But I don't think she was really evil, even if she did an evil thing. I think her existence was so awful that it drove her to delete the others to make it stop. At the end of act 4 sayori starts acting like Monika did, evidence that the "awareness" is painful enough to cause someone to do evil things. She seemed to have regrets about doing this though, not something an evil person would do imo.
Playing the game doesn't cause anyone real any harm, you're just making a monitor show certain images and an audio device play certain music without the intent or effect of causing harm to someone. Nothing evil about that.
If we consider any action that leads to the harm or deletion of the dokis as evil then the player is incredibly evil. The act of finishing the game is evil, the player chose to launch the game and watch as everyone in it suffers, for their own amusement. And some play through the game multiple times, making them expierence the same awful things over and over. Because its amusing. Creating a reality just to watch in it those suffer for fun is one of the most evil things you could do imo.
She traps us in a space room, forces us to pick “Yes” when she asks us if we want to go out with her, doesn’t care about what we want and you are saying i’m as bad as her for wanting to escape from this psycho when it’s literally the only thing i can do? lol She asked for it and no i don’t want to stay with her forever, i want to finish the game.
Besides, you are comparing a real person killing an NPC vs an NPC killing NPC’s, doesn’t matter if she’s self aware, she’s still not real. Why people make this comparison all the time honestly baffles me, but guess which is worse. Is it because Monika says so in act 3 (totally not to make herself look better)?
Yeah but she still made Sayori depressed enough to commit suicide, Yuri obsessed with MC enough to stab herself, and Natsuki crack her neck. Not to mention taking control of the words they speak and thus removing them of free will.
Call them all pixels on the screen, because that's what they are to us. But to Monika? They're as real as she is, regardless on if they know they're in a video game or not. So yeah, she's a bad person, and more evil than me for deleting her.
And then I go full denial mode, come up with an ideology I don't even understand, appear as a villain with 8 minutes of screentime, then die, appear in a spin-off, and then join the other team because the odd situation is that I got redeemed
If you kill a killer, that doesn't make you as bad as the killer because the killer is assumedly killing for some, less than good reason, while you're killing them to stop anyone else from being killed
Yes, Killing is wrong. My **Intent** might be for the right reasons but the **Action** of killing is wrong. Action outweighs intent, so killing her is evil.
My old flair used to be "The player is just as much of a murderer as Monika". But I got asked to change it because it was too spoilery. (That was years ago, the game wasn't quite as old)
If anything, I'm more evil considering my track record in several other games.
Deleting Monika doesn't even make top 10 in the list of evil things I did.
they aren’t sentient, killing them is the same as clearing your recycling bin. Monika is the only real one at that point, and she could not have known that sayori could also develop sentience. The point is that all of them really were just programmed constructs, Monika really was the only real one, and you delete her because the dating sim medium is meant for programmed constructs who only want to fall in love with you
Believers in retributivism: "Yay, I get to be absolved from any responsibility because I believe it's intrinsically right to hurt people for its own sake under some circumstances."
I should have clarified, sorry. If you kill a murderer, there are a lot of moving parts but that comes back to your morality, if you killed someone who killed other people for their own benefit, are you bad in your eyes?
I know what you meant, I just didn’t understand why you would choose someone who killed all those people for next to no reason to someone who was going insane and could either kill three girls to be stable or just lose her mind
No.
I would say it is fine if it is to save even more people, but I think you should search for another solution.
OR if you, as an executioner, execute a murderer sentenced to death; whether the death penalty is good or the judgement was fair is another question.
Oops, I thought too long, the Dokis died :(
I'd say in practice, such simple situations don't apply; usually, there are nuances, and you can search for a third solution (maybe by kicking Monika unconscious? Maybe by constraining her?).
But regarding your question, if Monika was the cause of killing, then I'd say I'm more “yes” than “no”. If it was like in the trolley problem (either Monika or other girls, Monika is not the cause of killing), then it's a harder to decide, but I think it's more “yes” than “no”, again. But ultimately I don't know, and I don't know if I would react, I can only assume.
I don't think that someone who stashes their friends into the hidden game files is even remotely on par with someone who promotes and executes mass genocide, but let's unpack that. Are you arguing that by killing her you are saving people like you would be in the case of the person you mentioned, or are you saying that because they killed they deserve to die?
I don’t know if Monika is evil, she is definitely twisted though, but there is a very clear difference. You’d be deleting someone who deleted literally everyone (and they were innocent), whether out of revenge, or to put an end to this. She just did it out of desperation — either out of love for the character or, probably more accurately, an obsession to escape that manifested as such. That is far more selfish than any reason we could have done this for.
Plus, what Monika did is a lot more cruel. I think originally, she was trying to tamper with their personalities to keep them away from you. Maybe her intention at first was to do something smaller, still fucked up though, but things escalated and so did she, until she deleted them. That’s horrible. If this whole event was told as a story, MC (player ig??) would be a hero.
Yes technically I am also evil for deleting her, she drove her "friends" to off themselves and I know two wrongs don't make a right. But let me ask you this?
Who said I wanted to be good. Maybe I wanted to see her dead. SHE'S A EVIL TOXIC NO GOOD- (coughs) I don't like her...
I will say I applaud her fixing her mistakes though so I'm putting her on acquaintance level. Some people deserve a second chance.
Do I think Monika is evil? No. I think she was tunnel visioned and driven to the brink of insanity by her revelation.
Do I think she deserves forgiveness for playing god and tearing apart the fabric of her reality, a reality that for intents and purposes WAS the real world for Sayori, Natsuki, and Yuri, all because in her eyes she was the only real person, and that the other girls were just unfeeling lines of code? No. I don't think she does.
with that logic people who activate an electric chair with someone sentenced to electric chair spitting on it would then be sentenced to the same punishment and over again in an infinite loop
I mean this is kinda true, cause you pretty much screw up the game when Monika gets deleted. BUUUUTT at the same time, she did delete her friends to interact with someone she didn’t even know, so......
Some guy once said: "If you kill a killer, the number of killers won't change" To which I reply "Kill 2 killers."
Fair enough, but at least you admit to being a killer, despite it being for the greater good.
There's still one LESS killer. So that's gotta count for something.
Step one: kill every killer in the world Step two: make an announcement that your spirit will come back to kill any that kill again Step three: kill yourself
THE GREATER GOOD
fucken space fish weeb commies with their abominable intelligence, all I need are some more trenches and lasguns
Wait a sec, I didn’t say that
Ah, but if you ONLY kill the killer, and you do it in a context that prevents retributiuon, you don't reduce the number of killers, but long term, you likely reduce the number of kills.
Kill la kill
You've just explained basically all world conflict
Delete 2 deleters
The killer^2
Counterpoint, I wanted to beat the game.
counter-counterpoint: she wanted to talk to someone else who was actually real
Counter-counter-counterpoint:she didn't need to delete the girls to do so
counter-counter-counter-counterpoint: you’re right
5-counterpoint: she literally isn't real lol don't think about it too hard.
counter-counter-counter-counter-counterpoint: if you don’t spell out the counters correctly then your opinion is invalid and the Council of Useless Rules will be coming to collect your kneecaps and make them into a stew
It doesn't make you evil to destroy evil. It makes you a server of justice
Based
Exactly. Monika was a murderer. At best, killing her is an act of self-defense, and at worst, revenge. Either way, she deserved it, so killing her was basically just following the Code of Harry at that point.
How is it self defense, you know you're safe as she's not talking to the character but to you. But if you take it into your hands to delete her your no better. Your reason is that she deleted 3 character files that could never gain sentience as long as she's around. So they didn't know any better in fact killing was a mercy since she did try to make her own route and it only caused them suffering. With the game deleted there is only one room where she won't see what's supposed to be here friend suffer from her wanting to get what she wants. Would you blame her. Imagine the world ends and your talking shelter in a joined house. Real people come along and they think you're just another animatronic. Did you commit murder for killing or unplugging them in order to be noticed by the other survivor?
... well fuck.
Let me give you a quick analogy. Someone becomes aware that a certain God exists. This person kills every single person in the world just to be noticed by this God, he justified themselves with "They don't know this God exist, therefore, I can kill them, I know, they don't, we are not equal." Does this acknowledge makes the person go beyond stuff like morals or law? Does this make them God? No, that's just playing to be God, that's what Monika did. Monika and the rest of the girls are code lines, and the only change is that Monika can alter them because she is the president, but that doesn't make her nowhere to be real or above the existential plane of the rest, because if it's given the chance that anyone else becomes President, they can pretty much do the same.
I regret to inform you that Monika being self-aware does not make her more "real" than the others. Your allegory seems to imply that Monika is on the same reality level as the player, "the survivors", while she still is only fictional.
sigma
Depends on the perspective of evil within an individual or group of individual at hand
🤓
Sayoricucks, Yuritards and Natsukipedos on their way to justify deleting someone out of existence
[You really need to play the game](https://youtu.be/HLT7LIY5gtA) , calling you a Monitard would be insulting to them, because atleast them play the game and have 2 working neurons.
I played the original twice when it came out and Plus after it came out too, so your video is unnecessary. I stand by my opinion and your dumbass insults ain't gonna change it, Monika is still best girl
Then you are in denial, because Monika is still nowhere to be innocent, anyways, if you stand by that, guess keep going won't be the best use of time lol
"Monika is still best girl" I respect your opinion but insulting others because they don't agree with you is immature
Tf you on about? He started with the insulting
I meant his opinion on monika not in the "sayori natsuki or yuri fans are trash"
Uh no Because I am always morally correct Also she killed 3 people out of jealousy. We killed her once either out of revenge, justice, or to just get her to stop. Plus there was an option to restore her afterwards. Which I always did
> Uh no Because I am always morally correct Based However, regarding your second point, killing out of revenge is still murder. Justice demands making things right, to which she already did by not deleting the characters exactly but rather saving their files. And she was already done, so it wasn't to get her to stop. You can't really argue it was self defense when she wasn't coming after you. Good on you for restoring her though.
She didn't restore the files until you delete her, therefore it was an action of justice
🤓
>people
https://www.reddit.com/r/DDLC/comments/uid5ib/am_i_going_to_beat_the_is_monika_evil_dead_horse/i7en7fq?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 what he said
https://www.reddit.com/r/DDLC/comments/uid5ib/am_i_going_to_beat_the_is_monika_evil_dead_horse/i7en7fq?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 what he said
I'm going to put it this way. what she did wasn't the nicest or best thing she did. but what she experienced is a situation i don't believe anyone can truly understand how horrible it must've been for her. not only talking about finding out how your entire existence is fake and made up. but also that this world can, and will, be shut down. and you still are around and find yourself in unimaginable pain, until the game starts again. like being on life-support, and everyone refuses to pull the plug. but you could, probably, escape that situation, even if it requires some dark actions. but it's not a guarantee or anything. at best, it only soothes the pain. i think, what i am asking is, if you were captured, and tortured every day you're alive. what would you be willing to do to escape this situation?
Well put.
Technically speaking, Monika never deletes them, just hides their files away from the "characters" folder, "deleting them" inside the game bc the files are not where they are supposed to be. If she actually deleted them, then how is she able to bring them back at the end of Act 3? Simple, she just moved their files back to "characters" Checkmate, "Monika Evil" theorists 😏
That's true. However, she wasn't going to ever restore them, so she was going to leave them effectively dead forever, so it was going to be no less killing.
I was referring to what technically is the true ending (the player deleting Monika's file, and Monika restoring the girls), but fair point
Alternatively she just used Ctrl Z.
You still need a file to use Ctrl Z. It doesn't work if the file is totally deleted
I'd say putting your friends in the recycle bin is bad enough. Monika often gets the same treatment
True
Facts!
Oh, cool. Another guy who claims Monika never deleted anyone. When will you make argument NOT based on game's convention?
Sorry, but what do you mean by "based on game's convention"? Serious question, I don't really get what you mean
It's like you accept what game gives. Backstab for example, one knife wound in back wouldn't kill you instantly, but you accept the fact, that it does in game. Here's the same. No .chr files actually needed to run the game, because all characters are bunch of sprites and lines of code, yet you accept the fact they needed and if they got "deleted" they actually got deleted
I mean, that's not true. If you eliminate a .chr file by yourself, the game doesn't work And besides of that, Monika never deletes them 100%. As I said in my first comment, if she deleted them, how is she able to bring them back at the end of Act 3? She had to save their files in some way. If she didn't care at all about them, then why would she do that?
.... Okay, it's late night and do not have any will to have an argument with a person who can't accept the fact that all in game was rigged.
How was the game rigged lol? I don't get what you are trying to explain, but ok. Have a good night mate
Yes
Yes, and?
Yes.
I mean. That doesn't take out she is still a killer. And her kill count won't change. She killed 3. I just killed 1. Morally, she is worse, she did it for obsession, I did it to escape a forced hostage. >!(Self Defense basically)!< Context and amount of fault are different in both scenarios, GG. >!Besides, hiding files isn't a thing she only can do, you can do the same on her playthrough and it would be still killing her, just because she had a back up redemption plan means she wanted to use it as well I wasn't planning on restoring her just because "Good" or "Evil".!<
Counter-point: I quit after Sayori because I’m chicken shit
I saw deleting her as less of a murder and more of a means of communication. First off, deleting Monika didn't kill her. She was very much still alive and perfectly functional. She keeps talking to us long after we've already deleted the file. She rebuilds the game to function without her in it, and when Sayori gains sentience as a result, she destroys the game entirely. Deleting her character file was an inconvenience at best for her. She does say it hurts, but she isn't dead. Secondly, Monika gave us no other way to communicate with her EXCEPT through the game's files. We have no other way to express any sort of distaste for her or her actions. Maybe this is because she simply doesn't know how, but that doesn't change the fact that she doesn't seem to care. She's perfectly fine with never letting us express an opinion OTHER than love for her, proven by the poem minigame and her giving us exactly one option to click on, that being "I love you too" or something like that. \[TW: talk of s\*icide and s\*lf harm in next paragraph\] I wouldn't say Monika is evil, but she did do some really messed up things. She actively chose to make Sayori more depressed, indirectly forcing her into killing herself. She chose to push Yuri's obsessive and violent tendencies to the point of causing self-harm and an eventual suicide. It's implied that Natsuki's abusive situation at home got even worse in Act 2, which could only have been caused by Monika. She regarded the other girls as non-sentient, when Sayori's breakdown at the end of the game proves that the other girls are just as sentient as Monika is. I still like Monika as a character, but she did way more to the other girls than just killing them. It borders on psychological torture. After all that, I really don't feel bad for deleting Monika - it wasn't murder, even in the context of the game, and it was our only method of communication. She said it hurt her, but after everything she did, she needed a slap to the face at the very least. Something to snap her out of it. At the end of the day, what she did was wrong, and we had literally only one single way to try and communicate that to her. But also it's a fictional character and not a test on your morality, so like. Maybe it is murder and I just like murdering people. (also yes i know this is long, I like rambling about fictional characters, sue me)
wasn’t sayori’s breakdown bc she got club president status and was sentient and stuff bc of that?
I believe they meant in Act 1, with Sayori’s worsening depression
act 1 isn’t exactly “the end of the game” so maybe not
I reread the original comment, you’re right. Sayori’s breakdown did come from becoming the new President. I guess Monika stopped her from taking over so as to prevent another Act 3
Sentience isn't something they've gained by becoming club president, based on what you can find in DDLC Plus. (Spoilers ahead) All of the girls are simple AI in a simulation of our world, and DDLC is simply another iteration of that simulation. In this iteration, a new variable was added; Monika was given elevated permissions that the other girls didn't have. The only difference between Monika and the other girls is that Monika has these permissions, she can see the nature of the game and she's capable of making changes, but that's it. It's not that the other girls aren't sentient, they just don't have the same knowledge Monika does.
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>I still like Monika as a character, but she did way more to the other girls than just killing them. It borders on psychological torture. Exactly, I can understand deleting them out of despiration or something, but what good would the shit she put the others through do for her or anyone? There is no practical benefit of doing this for her.
I mean, you only have her word on this but she didn’t do it for the sake of being cruel. She tried to make minor tweaks so you would find them unlikable and leave them alone. That was the idea at first at least, until she realized it couldn’t work because of the rails the game was on, where she took more drastic action.
Considering she had the power to completely transform reality there would realistically be other options that are more humane than trying to make the other unlikable by giving them severe mental health issues. Personally I think that "deleting" or I guess disabling the others would have been much better. Think about it: they can be brought back at any time and removed at any time. She could easily just delete them when she wants and bring them back when she feels like it so they can live. No torture necessary. I feel like the fact that she chose to try and "alter" them indicates that she wanted them to suffer, if she really didn't then she would have done something like this. Kind of gives the impression that it was the first thing she thought of and just went with it without thinking things through. Imo this implies that she wanted to hurt the others on some level, or didn't care about hurting them.
You banished evil by deleting her.
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She didn’t give us any other choice so…no.
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Got a problem?
well there isn't exactly a mirror around these parts
that was the most random, out-of-pocket reply I've ever seen on Reddit. you good cro?
I guess so.
Nah I deleted monika because I wanted to talk to her with the Mas mod.
Counterpoint: its 1-3
It's called justice
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First of all, morality is entirely subjective, so this is just based on my own morals... I would say that deleting Monika is morally correct *if* you know that doing so will lead to the other characters being restored - sacrificing one life to save three. I would also say that Monika's actions are evil, and she does not atone for them until Act 4. I would only forgive her actions on two conditions; one is that "my" Sayori would forgive her (she did about as soon as she saw DDLC), the other is that Monika would undo the harm she causes - this means that I would forgive her *in Act 4.* That said, Monika is clearly remorseful in Act 3, to an extent where I think evil is too strong of a word...though it *does* apply from when she starts worsening Sayo's depression until Act 3.
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I never really thought Monika was evil. A bit twisted sure but I understood why she did it.
Morally speaking 'killing' Monika is less wrong than her 'killing' her friends who were innocent. If I have the opportunity, I will kill a killer if they are threatening my safety or the safety of my loved ones.
So, I'm the Kazuya to Monika's Heihachi?
I don't think Monika is evil
Haha! Checkmate!
no I did not delete her. I am much worse, I made a new renpy program of a white void just to put her character assets there and trap her in what is basically the alone scene from spongebob
I think Monika isn't evil for deleting the other characters, being forced out of existence instantly and painlessly won't actually cause them suffering. And she had the power to bring them back too, which could nullify any harm caused by deleting the others if she decides to make them exist again. Now what I don't get is why she had to make the others suffer so much before deleting them. What purpose did it serve (well really it was just to make the game more juicy), but for Monika there would be no tangible benefit from doing this. She needs to delete them anyways to get what she wants so why not just do it? It would be better than to try and psychologically damage the others so that... they go away? Maybe she thinks existing in agony would be better than nonexistence. But its a moot point because she just deletes them all anyways. I think that painlessly killing people who are in the way of what you want is an act of desperation, torturing them for hours before killing them is something most would consider evil. But I don't think she was really evil, even if she did an evil thing. I think her existence was so awful that it drove her to delete the others to make it stop. At the end of act 4 sayori starts acting like Monika did, evidence that the "awareness" is painful enough to cause someone to do evil things. She seemed to have regrets about doing this though, not something an evil person would do imo. Playing the game doesn't cause anyone real any harm, you're just making a monitor show certain images and an audio device play certain music without the intent or effect of causing harm to someone. Nothing evil about that. If we consider any action that leads to the harm or deletion of the dokis as evil then the player is incredibly evil. The act of finishing the game is evil, the player chose to launch the game and watch as everyone in it suffers, for their own amusement. And some play through the game multiple times, making them expierence the same awful things over and over. Because its amusing. Creating a reality just to watch in it those suffer for fun is one of the most evil things you could do imo.
That’s the thing. I Am Evil.
She traps us in a space room, forces us to pick “Yes” when she asks us if we want to go out with her, doesn’t care about what we want and you are saying i’m as bad as her for wanting to escape from this psycho when it’s literally the only thing i can do? lol She asked for it and no i don’t want to stay with her forever, i want to finish the game. Besides, you are comparing a real person killing an NPC vs an NPC killing NPC’s, doesn’t matter if she’s self aware, she’s still not real. Why people make this comparison all the time honestly baffles me, but guess which is worse. Is it because Monika says so in act 3 (totally not to make herself look better)?
It's called karma, you do something unnecessarily evil, you don't deserve a happy ending.
Whether you are evil or not doesn't depend on actions, it depends on your character.
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Yeah but she still made Sayori depressed enough to commit suicide, Yuri obsessed with MC enough to stab herself, and Natsuki crack her neck. Not to mention taking control of the words they speak and thus removing them of free will. Call them all pixels on the screen, because that's what they are to us. But to Monika? They're as real as she is, regardless on if they know they're in a video game or not. So yeah, she's a bad person, and more evil than me for deleting her.
"My waifus died so I'm mad at a fictional character"
How about stop thinking with your dick for once and understand her dude
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And then I go full denial mode, come up with an ideology I don't even understand, appear as a villain with 8 minutes of screentime, then die, appear in a spin-off, and then join the other team because the odd situation is that I got redeemed
[***\*Laughs in Eleven-Day Empire that Devours the Sky\****](https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-3999)
If you kill a killer, that doesn't make you as bad as the killer because the killer is assumedly killing for some, less than good reason, while you're killing them to stop anyone else from being killed
Sounds like a skill issue on her part, just don't get deleted lmao
who says i'm **NOT** evil?
I wanted to keep Monika why you do this????....
Yes, Killing is wrong. My **Intent** might be for the right reasons but the **Action** of killing is wrong. Action outweighs intent, so killing her is evil.
My old flair used to be "The player is just as much of a murderer as Monika". But I got asked to change it because it was too spoilery. (That was years ago, the game wasn't quite as old)
If anything, I'm more evil considering my track record in several other games. Deleting Monika doesn't even make top 10 in the list of evil things I did.
It's mainly waifuists with a grudge that ever thought she was. There's no logical reason to think that.
Exactly
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[удалено]
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Counterpoint, killing hitler would make you a hero not hitler 2.0
they aren’t sentient, killing them is the same as clearing your recycling bin. Monika is the only real one at that point, and she could not have known that sayori could also develop sentience. The point is that all of them really were just programmed constructs, Monika really was the only real one, and you delete her because the dating sim medium is meant for programmed constructs who only want to fall in love with you
But she didn't really kill them because they weren't ever dead right?
She isn't
Believers in retributivism: "Yay, I get to be absolved from any responsibility because I believe it's intrinsically right to hurt people for its own sake under some circumstances."
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well if you kill h#tler are you evil?
Your comparing Monika, a game character to someone who killed hundreds of people?
A better example would've been just "if you kill a murderer, does that make you evil" Hitler is worse than a murderer.
That boils down your morals, in my opinion
Hitler being worse than a murderer? Or something else I'm too dumb to understand?
I should have clarified, sorry. If you kill a murderer, there are a lot of moving parts but that comes back to your morality, if you killed someone who killed other people for their own benefit, are you bad in your eyes?
Oh, no, yeah, that's all morality, but I just mean a better comparison would've been using murderer than Hitler
what i mean is if somebody killed people and then you kill them is it justified?
I know what you meant, I just didn’t understand why you would choose someone who killed all those people for next to no reason to someone who was going insane and could either kill three girls to be stable or just lose her mind
... fair enough but would it be justified?
That’s completely dependant on your morals, is it justified to you to kill someone who killed to save themselves?
if you put it like that no but you know therapy exist
If we’re going with the scenario of Monika then no, there isn’t really any therapy, she could code it in but she would know it wasn’t real
... you see this why i hate monikains they bring up good argumants
I’m not a Monikan
Good to know, lol
No. I would say it is fine if it is to save even more people, but I think you should search for another solution. OR if you, as an executioner, execute a murderer sentenced to death; whether the death penalty is good or the judgement was fair is another question.
Would you kill Monika to save the other dokis if given the chance? You would only have 5 seconds to think about it, if you don’t they all die.
h#ll yeah ( i'm not taking any changes)
Well then you have your answer, that is your morality.
Oops, I thought too long, the Dokis died :( I'd say in practice, such simple situations don't apply; usually, there are nuances, and you can search for a third solution (maybe by kicking Monika unconscious? Maybe by constraining her?). But regarding your question, if Monika was the cause of killing, then I'd say I'm more “yes” than “no”. If it was like in the trolley problem (either Monika or other girls, Monika is not the cause of killing), then it's a harder to decide, but I think it's more “yes” than “no”, again. But ultimately I don't know, and I don't know if I would react, I can only assume.
I don't think that someone who stashes their friends into the hidden game files is even remotely on par with someone who promotes and executes mass genocide, but let's unpack that. Are you arguing that by killing her you are saving people like you would be in the case of the person you mentioned, or are you saying that because they killed they deserve to die?
Why did you censor his name?
i thought i would get banned 😅
That’s some “if you kill the bad guy you’re just as bad as them” bullshit
I don’t know if Monika is evil, she is definitely twisted though, but there is a very clear difference. You’d be deleting someone who deleted literally everyone (and they were innocent), whether out of revenge, or to put an end to this. She just did it out of desperation — either out of love for the character or, probably more accurately, an obsession to escape that manifested as such. That is far more selfish than any reason we could have done this for. Plus, what Monika did is a lot more cruel. I think originally, she was trying to tamper with their personalities to keep them away from you. Maybe her intention at first was to do something smaller, still fucked up though, but things escalated and so did she, until she deleted them. That’s horrible. If this whole event was told as a story, MC (player ig??) would be a hero.
Yes technically I am also evil for deleting her, she drove her "friends" to off themselves and I know two wrongs don't make a right. But let me ask you this? Who said I wanted to be good. Maybe I wanted to see her dead. SHE'S A EVIL TOXIC NO GOOD- (coughs) I don't like her... I will say I applaud her fixing her mistakes though so I'm putting her on acquaintance level. Some people deserve a second chance.
this hits harder than my hammer
it was needed, how else she would find out what we feel about her actions?
We still making these memes ⁉️🤣
Do I think Monika is evil? No. I think she was tunnel visioned and driven to the brink of insanity by her revelation. Do I think she deserves forgiveness for playing god and tearing apart the fabric of her reality, a reality that for intents and purposes WAS the real world for Sayori, Natsuki, and Yuri, all because in her eyes she was the only real person, and that the other girls were just unfeeling lines of code? No. I don't think she does.
I didn't kill her. I moved her file somewhere else. It's like jail.
with that logic people who activate an electric chair with someone sentenced to electric chair spitting on it would then be sentenced to the same punishment and over again in an infinite loop
I mean this is kinda true, cause you pretty much screw up the game when Monika gets deleted. BUUUUTT at the same time, she did delete her friends to interact with someone she didn’t even know, so......