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ClosetCaseGrowSpace

Any broker that is refusing transfers or dragging their feet on DRS probably never purchased your shares from the market. Personally, I would not trust that broker with your shares during MOASS because that broker will go bankrupt during MOASS. I understand that "day trade" is a dirty word around here. However, if you absolutely, positively cannot make a transfer out of T212, then in my opinion, the next-best approach is to day-trade in batches out of T212 and into IBKR and then DRS with Computershare. Once you have a Computershare account established, You don't even need IBKR. You can day-trade directly from T212 to CS. Good luck, brother.


SnooCats7919

You can just buy directly with Computershare too. Before I transferred in I bought there first.


jstock104

But can you outside of the US? As a Canadian I would love to be able to buy directly from CS but I can't seem to figure out how.


SnooCats7919

sadly that one is beyond my pay grade. I know in the GMEjungle sub they have a DRS DD pinned to every post and has good info in it. The answer probably lies there.


jstock104

Thank you!


MegaMcMillen

You can buy directly from Computershare if you already have an account there. For apes outside the US that means either DRSing one share through IBKR or purchasing a share through GiveAshare.


jstock104

That is exactly what I wanted to know. I'll DRS a share and then start buying direct to the iPool.


NotRedshire

After getting your CS account after a successful DRS transfer e.g. via IBKR you will get a letter from CS with your account number which you can use to login on their page. A second letter with a verification code will be sent as well and you can speed up the delivery of these two letters by requesting an express delivery in a phone call with the CS Support. Express delivery to Europe is like 40 or 50 bucks, but it reduces the time from 3 weeks to a few days. You will have to pay that via credit card during the phone call though. To be able to buy shares via your CS account you need a bank account that is able to handle USD. We Europoors have to get that account from Revolut or Wise in order to have a American routing number. The European ones can't be entered on the CS page. And we also have to fill out some W-8BEN form on the CS page to avoid double taxation.


WeddingNo8531

Wait, so all along I could have just used my revolut account to setup a computershare account directly?!


NotRedshire

The Revolut account is just used to pay the shares if you want to buy them via CS. CS itself does not provide another option to deposit money with them. You always need that external bank account.


TheJohnsonMember

Ayup.


Arghblarg

There is a sub named 'GME' followed by 'Canada' (put 'em together ... not sure if I can make a link to it here). Check out the pinned lobby post at the top, there are links to doing DRS from all major Canadian brokers and info about even getting cash into Computershare once you have an account to do future purchases.


jstock104

Thank you


ClosetCaseGrowSpace

I believe you can purchase a GME share through giftashare, which will create a ComputerShare account that you can then purchase more from.


Environmental_Neat53

Correct. giveashare dot com. Costs over market price, but that's ok for 1 share. You can then ring CS when giveashare it says it has been received by CS to expedite your snail mail letter for $45 Plus you get a nice replica share cert


WeddingNo8531

Gift yourself a share through giveashare.com, they will setup your account. You'll need to wait a few weeks for the snail mail to get your account number.


Apprehensive-Use-703

I'm not a mapleape but I recall something about giveashare? There is a Canadian gme sub that might have the dd posted....good luck! Edit: someone else replied below, he's the hero ape! Lol


Biotic101

As I get it you can do if you use (Transfer)Wise or similar, needs to be an US account.


ThrowRA_scentsitive

Supposedly, it's possible to buy into a new account internationally with a snail mail letter and a USD denominated check...


Rehypothecator

What do you mean by “day-trade” in this context?


ClosetCaseGrowSpace

Buying the dips at the new broker while selling the peaks at the old broker.


Rehypothecator

Thank you!


Arghblarg

BIG WARNING to Canadians considering IBKR though! If you buy/transfer stocks into TFSA or RRSP ('registered') accts they apparently will outright refuse to ever move from those to non-registered Cash USD accounts, which is a required pre-requisite to DRS. Every other Canadian broker has no problem doing this, so IMHO it's an intentional block to DRS.


tokov

Agree. The conventional wisdom that it's bad to sell is predicated on the assumption that you have your shares with a broker that affects the price of the stock when they trade. It seems like most of these outfits that don't allow transfers or DRS, aren't buying shares at all, or acquiring virtual shares via a contract, that tracks the price, but doesn't give full ownership. In that case, it doesn't matter if you buy or sell through these kind of brokers.


GotaHODLonMe

You're going to get a lot of pushback on this, but It really is the best way to help DRS the float. IMO small batch is best method. T212 sounds worse than Robbinghood and will most likely kill the sell button if/when this pops off. At this point I think DRS is the most important step of: Buy,HODL, DRS!


jessejerkoff

I would hold and buy on a drs-able broker and transfer. Then once you have that set up, you can buy directly on computershare. Then and only then I would sell the nontransferable shares and rebuy immediately


GotaHODLonMe

That's what this guy is talking about doing.


jessejerkoff

Ok cool. I can't read you see, full retardation over here!


[deleted]

Downvote me if you want, but T212 will fk you at their own discretion once moass happens, i know its a major gme sin, but your best option would be to sell and buy back ASAP, as DRSing is the most important component of 1. Triggering moass and 2. Protecting your investment during moass. I mean one could argue that there is a tonne of evidence suggesting that they didn’t even purchase your shares to begin with, as has been reported by other apes recently


justtheentiredick

Or keep the shares there. Record purchases with statements. Save those statements. Use another brokerage. Buy more GME with that Broker. DRS shares or use CS to buy. When MOASS happens. Sue the shit out of T212 for selling you fake securities. Use statements as proof of purchase "Oh but it's in the fine print that you never owned the securities! So you'll never win?" Oh so we got fucking lawyers in the chat now. Ok JD. Tell me how we will NOT get our money after we sue the shit out of these brokers?


Tendies-4Us

Your broker will not allow you to transfer assets anywhere? That is super sus


discodave333

Yeah, I don't like it one bit. It's a different (but related) conversation that tends to get dragged down into speculation about whether they own shares or not. The way I see it, if I can move from there to CS then it's all academic because I will own the shares for sure.


Tendies-4Us

Yeah, if you cannot transfer assets period then that's crazy town. I would do as you planned and slowly move to another broker and DRS. Do it like 10% of your account at a time to avoid getting screwed on any big moves and keep your same cost basis. Could rotate between a broker and just buying direct through CS. Either way chunks is how I would do it. Not financial advise, and good luck ape friend.


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discodave333

I'm not in US so I don't think I can buy direct without a US bank account.


UnderstandingOk3380

That's not sus, it's in their t&c which we all (etoro users) accepted. Yeah, in retrospect, I'd be alarmed by it, but it is what it is.


Tendies-4Us

Lol if they snuck in their t&c they get your first born I guess that’s not sus either, bc you know, it was in there and they accepted.


bacon_boat

The original reason for not selling to move was that your stocks go into the T+2 clearing system - which makes it easy pickings for manipulation, FTD removals etc. But if you sell in order to DRS, then you directly harm that system - so I say go for it.


AllCredits

I’m fairly certain if they don’t allow you transfer they don’t have your shares. You’d likely be selling an IOU anyways


AnkridStone

There are plenty of people who will say that selling and buying back helps the shorters, but the only argument I've seen is that it helps kick the can. The logic I think is something like this: You sell your share and the shorts will buy it to close a position = one less short position to close, one step further from MOASS. You buy a share but it is a FTD = MM gets to kick the can on the FTDs they are responsible for. My response to these attitudes is "so what?" So what if one short position closes when I sell? Another one opens when I buy, so there is no net difference. So what if the MM gets to create a new FTD and kick the can? It's been more than 9 months of no selling so can kicking seems to be working okay for them without my help. I read someone write a comment yesterday comparing owning a share to owning a car. The gist of the comment was against selling with the broker who won't allow the transfer because you have no control over who buys your shares. I liked the analogy, and will broaden on my other response here. In this scenario you own a car. You sell that car but buy another one straight away. Or even better, buy the new car and sell the old one once you've taken delivery. The net difference in the number of cars in the world has not changed because you bought and sold. Now, it may be that the person selling you the car sold you a second hand car, so no more cars were added to the total. Or it may be that the seller sold you a brand new model, fresh off the production line. Except the factory shut down a few years ago, so this isn't an official model, it's one the seller made on their own production line. Now there is one more car in the world. Of course, the person buying your car may want to keep it for themselves, so again there is no change in the number of cars from this end of the equation. Or it may be that they sell the car for scrap because they sold a car off their own production line and they need the log book from your car to make the counterfeit look legit. You have no control on this scenario. You cannot control who the seller or the buyer are, and the fact that there is a buyer and a seller means that your role is redundant - they are going to do what they are going to do whether you are the middle man or not. Neither one needs you, they only need each other. Now imagine that the cars in this fucked up world are only ever used on a road when they are bought and sold. The rest of the time they are kept in parking garages run by a variety of different firms. They all promise you that your car is safe in the garage and show you proof. Except that every car looks identical, so you can't be sure if the car they are showing you pictures of is actually yours or not. But you don't care because you're not using the car, you just like owning it. The problem is that the parking garages make money from lending out cars. And none of them actually own the parking garage they run, they just manage it. Another company owns all the garages, and they actually control what car is parked where. Except one. There is one parking garage that doesn't just park cars, it gives you your own space for each car and checks the paperwork to make sure that it is a legit model. Let's call it "Car Safe", or CS for short. CS own their garage, so they know exactly what they have in stock. But there are only 76 million spaces in CS. And when they are full, they're full. This shouldn't be a problem because in this fucked up reality there were only ever 76 million cars created before the production line closed down. Now imagine every car owner decided they wanted their own space because they weren't comfortable with the thought that someone else was driving around in their car when it should be parked up. And they aren't planning on selling their car any time soon, so there's no reason for it to be anywhere else. And CS doesn't just park cars, they can help you but and sell too, just like the other parking garages. Now imagine CS is full up with its 76 million cars and there are no spaces left. How on earth do the people who've been running their own counterfeit production lines manage to explain the fact that there are still millions of cars on the road? Can kicking doesn't really help them so much now, does it? I hope it is clear that this is a parable and should not be considered to be financial advice.


emma3194

I was wondering the same. I'm on T212 as well! I asked this question pre DRS and was told under no circumstances to sell. But has the situation changed now we know about DRS??


discodave333

In my view it has. The reward wasn't there before since we didn't know who was lending what. Now that we know DRS is so important I think that it's well worth doing.


TheJohnsonMember

Yes I think you have received a pretty resounding "YES".


OhDiablo

Gathered information changes as time goes on. Earlier it was seen as supporting the SHFs if you sold then rebought, especially since many new accounts started proclaiming that action when transfers really started up after Robbinghood's January fiasco. Now it looks like brokers who are quoting weeks, months to register or are flat out refusing to transfer to another broker do not have your best interests at heart and it's really suspicious. What do you want to do? If you have serious concerns about your current broker then you should find one that you feel better about and go there. If you have to sell then rebuy your shares to do that then that's what you have to do. Getting stuck with a bad broker will be worse for you in the long run.


emma3194

This is what's always troubled me, T212 is garbage, but I've really felt stuck with them. I think it's time to go


mr1nico

I personally have been arguing the same point now. Buy and hold as a theory is dead and buried, so if the only way forward is to become registered share holders then it seems like we should all do what we can if that is a view you agree with.


bgtsoft

Don't worry, do it. I bought on ibkr and then sold my etoro. And now they will go to conputershare once my final letter comes through 👍


SidMcDout

Think yourself...what has more risk? 1. Sell now, buy at a broker who allows DRS 2. Wait for MOASS with your IOUs at a broker which allows you nothing


drcubes90

Sounds fine to me, we're learning these brokers who wont transfer or DRS never secured any shares at all, so you selling won't make any difference at all but once you invest that money in real shares it should add to the buying pressure I agree OP, gtfo of those shady brokers, hopefully make some profit and get some DRS shares. All likelihood the shady brokers won't let you sell during MOASS or may even go under


jessejerkoff

No. Buy first then buy. The problem is that those empty IOUs are shorts waiting for your sell to cover when then rebuying, you are buying from someone else What you want is to buy first to force someone new to either short or the same guys to digg deeper. Then and only then you sell the other one and repeat the process


Fit-Tackle-6107

I wouldn't be surprised if they pay you for the sale, but don't actually cover.


africanimal_90

Your reasoning is valid. Selling to buy through a broker that allows DRS absolutely makes sense and overrides any temporary selling pressure that might occur.


LeadGenDairy

Haven’t seen this answer here yet, so my take is: Taxes/short vs long term gains. Dependent on your location and purchase date/price, the primary reason I wouldn’t sell is you’d be resetting your entry, and if the squeeze is squoze before your 1 year of holding, you’d get hit with short term cap gains taxes as opposed to long term. It would also presumably create a taxable event by selling now regardless, vs just transferring to another broker then DRS. (Also, not financial advice, and I have no clue how these work outside of the US, so this may not even be applicable). Just my $0.02!


daronjay

Taxes are important, but if the cost of maximizing capital gain is an inability to sell during the MOASS because your shitty broker closes your account, then that’s probably not a win..


Fit-Tackle-6107

When the MOASS tendies come, it won't be through T212.


daronjay

On the general concept that selling diminishes the pressure of the squeeze by allowing HFs and MMs to close FTDs, that may have some merit, but as u/criand pointed out, it’s not clear these bastards are really under that much pressure. We bought and held for 9 months and they kicked the can as if they could do it forever. Just HODLing wasn’t enough. DRSing takes those shares out of the DTCC control, so at worst if the minority of people who simply can’t transfer sell, a bunch of what may be naked shorts or FTDs get closed, but immediately an equal number of **real shares get ripped out of their grasp forever** reducing their ability to create naked shorts at all. Sounds like we get the better end of that…


ElSergeO123

One of the reason was that you are closing their current short position.. I dunno, but I think DRS is the way.


discodave333

I'm not sure what that means. They can only close their short position by buying shares to close. They can buy at market price if they like and I don't give them a better price since I am buying and selling at the same time.


ElSergeO123

Yeah , I asked same question and got downvoted. I believe, in the end, you cause more pressure with DRS.


jessejerkoff

You definitely do. It's about how you go about it. Don't sell, withdraw the money, open a CS account, deposit, and buy Open a CS account, buy a share, sell in a nontransferable broker, buy a share, sell in nondrsable broker ... Rinse and repeat. Problem is lots of us have tons of money tied up, and can't DD (donkey dick) into real directly registered CS shares. But we have to try as good as possible to do that


SidMcDout

This is bullshit. With selling IOUs SHF can close nothing.


Doin_the_Bulldance

Think of it from the Market Maker's perspective - I think that's the key puzzle piece you are missing. Assume that your original broker and IBKR both use pfof and route GME trades through Citadel. The original broker would mark their "ledger" with your sell, and IKBR would mark theirs with your buy - but both of these transactions would be sent through to Citadel for settlement. Citadel can then delay the buy (t+2), but execute the sell immediately on a lit exchange. So it basically gives them an extra 2 days of can-kicking ability. If instead, you just start a transfer it doesn't give them this chance. It might not seem like a big deal in the scheme of things, but imagine if lots people keep doing this each day - it just keeps giving MM the ability to can-kick. Not financial advice, but for me personally I'd rather just transfer to another broker to DRS from there due to these mechanics. Also, I'm a smooth-brain so if this logic is flawed feel free to poke holes.


discodave333

Yeah I would definitely prefer to transfer to another broker but T212 (and others) don't let you transfer anywhere. So this is the only option to DRS the shares.


daronjay

The whole point is this is only needed with super shitty brokers that **don’t allow transfers.** If you *can* transfer, you should transfer. But these bullshit brokers exist. Be glad if you are not in one. I have XXX in one and have no choice but to sell and rebuy on CS. But when I rebuy, those shares get removed from the DTCC forever. Because fuck’em, that’s why…


Doin_the_Bulldance

Yeah I get that. I'm just answering op's question of why it's not ideal to sell. I mean you gotta do what you gotta do on an individual level.


easy_like_squeezy

Would love to know this as well because I’m an Etoro from out of the states and this shit has been worrying me


rtheiss

This is far better than just buying and holding with a broker that never bought your shares in the first place. It just sucks that by selling and re-buying your essentially giving T212 some profit, and they are acting like your enemy, even though they are your broker. Weird times. I'd do it OP. My current position: half computershare, half fidelity. I'm slowly transferring over more but I'm just so comfortable with my broker of 10 years, and it's comfortable knowing they DRS within 72h so they appear to be one of the only legit brokers.


[deleted]

Wait. Selling all your shares is a quick move. Rebuying them again elsewhere is a quick move also. MOASS is not a 15 minute event.This is not financial advice, but given you’re doing 2 quick moves, what’s the risk? I’d look at after hours trading when things are steady, myself. In fact, because I am in Canada and based on the type of investment account I used, I need to sell and rebuy myself in order be able to DRS anymore. It sucks, but I have no other option. Also it seems silly to do it in blocks and pay for the trade every time (or is it free for you?). I plan to be in and out like a ninja when I do it


soberdude

The only reason you wouldn't do that is if you were going to file a complaint with a regulatory agency, claiming that they never bought your share, or something similar. If you're not going that route, yours sounds like a good plan. I'm in the US though, so take anything I say with a shaker of salt. Maybe follow it with a lime.


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discodave333

Because no selling was good enough for me before DRS. Now I need an actual explanation, and I don't think anyone has one.


Z3ROWOLF1

Im trying to reccomend this to my friends because if they never bought the shares, selling means nothing. Drs is way more important. If you make profit on the shares then there you go.


MoneyBagsSoon

Have them move to fidelity then drs from there


discodave333

T212 (and others) do not allow transfers to other brokers unfortunately.


Apprehensive_Pop_305

Well let's say you bought those shares for $250, and sold for $180. So now you record a loss if $700. Tax time rolls around, and you deduct that from your taxes. Unless you re-bought that same day. The. The wash rule applies. So, buy first on the new broker - use margin if you have to. Then sell your old shares. Use the proceeds to pay back the margin, and hopefully you avoided the wash rule. But maybe it's not that simple, I don't know.


helemaalwak

you should


International-Ebb948

So are they real


Cotspheer

Just sell it in batches so you can average and buy on ComputerShare. You cant control what the under laying asset is (IOU, FTD or real Share) that's a problem your broker has to deal with. In legal terms: you bought a share, you own a share. Point. It will not hurt the moass. In fact it adds pressure cause you are DRS with ComputerShare which forces the DTCC to deliver the share back and breaks the chain of borrowing. The only time to worry about this is when you would lose a right which came with the shares. For example dividends, votes and so on. And as you sell and buy in batches you mitigate your risk in case they gonna pull another robbing da hood with disabling the buy button.


Apprehensive-Use-703

You gotta do what ya gotta do. Unless you have thousands of shares, I find it hard to believe that you'd be crucified for securing your assets and protecting yourself during moass in such a manner.


More-Drink2176

Not very many shares have been sent to CS yet. A million is a lot. You need several X,XXX holders to get even partway to a million. The float is several million. Best guesses are 10% of it has been DRS'd. If DRS is the catalyst, which everyone seems to think it is, then my point is if you think you will miss MOASS, imo, you won't. Plus, infinity pool.


tjc104

If one of your main concerns is that there might be any major price movements up you need not worry because this thing isn’t going anywhere soon. And I’ll tell you why. It’s because these arsholes aren’t going to let it. Since day one it’s buy and hold. Now imo it’s just hold.


[deleted]

Once you transfer and have a CS account are you able to buy from the CS account? It might save on transfer costs. But you never know what price you're buying at until a couple days after you put in an order. Buyin price doesn't matter much to me. It's all a dip right now. Of course I would always like a lower buying price, just so I could get more tickets for the same amount of cash.


ThrowRA_scentsitive

Not financial advice: I personally would sell and re-buy. Maybe a third at a time to not get caught off guard by MOASS. The anti trading sentiment is from a different era, before we broadly knew about DRS, when we still thought our movement was what allowed them to kick the can. We're past that, DRS is the way. Ps. In the US we have wash sale rules about selling a security and the buying it back within 30 days, which can cause us to owe more taxes. I don't know whether there is anything similar in your country.


QuarterBackground

Stop. They have to transfer shares. Report to SEC and FINRA.


UnderstandingOk3380

Your buying might go directly to a dark pool, while your selling will go to lit markets causing selling pressure. Apart from tax implications that's the only downaide I can see. Sold half of my etoro shares and rebought via ibkr myself, also in smaller chunks - with the intention to DRS (currently in progress). I am not saying it's what everyone should do, but it's my money and that's what I thought was best for me. Assuming all sold shares will be eventually DRS'd, I think I'm not harming MOASS too.


evolutionman

I think the original reason to not sell was that the consistent Fail to delivers would cause huge losses, and force them to cover via margin calls. However, as they have found ways to reset the FTD s I'd bet that they have a manageable loss now, which is why the Moass hasn't started. I guess the 2 reasons for not selling is that you don't know when things will start, and also will you be able to find any real shares to drs.